Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: VOR on February 01, 2007, 11:33:03 AM
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Mexicans protest as tortilla crisis hurts Calderon
Tens of thousands of demonstrators marched through Mexico's capital on Wednesday night to protest a surge in tortilla prices that has put President Felipe Calderon under intense pressure.
Soaring U.S. demand for ethanol has sent corn prices to their highest level in a decade, pulling up prices of Mexico's national food staple.
Protesters held up ears of corn and complained that Calderon, a conservative accused by leftists of stealing the July 2006 presidential election, was failing to protect them against foreign market forces.
"Calderon isn't just a thief, he's a murderer because he wants us to die of hunger," Elvira Acevedo, 62, said at the march.
1. Those bastige conservatives are always stealing elections!
2.This had nothing to do with NAFTA whatsoever. *cough*
3. Nevar forget teh chimichanga!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070201/wl_nm/mexico_tortillas_dc
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that does it, i'm going to boycott taco bell.
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Originally posted by VOR
Soaring U.S. demand for ethanol has sent corn prices to their highest level in a decade...
I don't see how the same thing won't happen here - and I don't just mean tortillas - I mean beef and anything with corn syrup in it (which covers many, many food products).
Demand for corn-based ethanol is going to raise food prices. I read somwhere if all the planned ethanol plants were to suddenly come online, it would require all of Iowa's current annual corn crop. Now, farmers can plant more acres in corn but that means fewer acres in soybeans, etc - so prices of those commodities will go up.
Seems a little bit like robbing Peter to pay Paul to me.
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Soaring U.S. demand for ethanol has sent corn prices to their highest level in a decade, pulling up prices of Mexico's national food staple.
Oh the irony, they didn't want to be apart of any "war for oil" now they can suck on the high tortilla prices, as US politicians not wanting to deal with the middleeast anymore look for other alternatives to meet energy demands....
:lol :rofl
Maybe next time they decide to chant praises to OBL when playing the US soccer team they can also praise him for the high tortilla prices .....
:lol
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Hopefully Bush's energy plan will switch us from corn based ethanol to alternative sources like wood chips and garbage. There is also plenty of underutilzed land that can be put to work growing better fuel crops like sugar beets.
I can stand higher tortilla prices. The day it starts to effect my bourbon prices, we'll have a war!
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CNN is reporting Bush's energy plan right now. They had some pics, too.
(http://www.outatime.it/public/40-mr_fusion.jpg)
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Bush has a plan,...ROFLMBO!!!!!!!!!!! And how long will that one last? Ohhh,..dunt tell me,...uh....LOL!!!!
Wait,...LOL!!!
Damn,..cannot stop laughi...LOL!!! Oh dayum,...there goes the Pepsi,...LOL!!!
You know what the difference is between Bush and a train wreck?
You can see the train burning.
You know what the difference is between Bush and a train wreck?
You usually can avoid a train wreck.
You know what the difference is between Bush and a train wreck?
Hard to say.
ROFLMBO!!!!!!! A plan,...ROFL!!!! Who is going to get that medal? LOL!!!! ROFL!!!!
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Originally posted by john9001
that does it, i'm going to boycott taco bell.
Taco bell is an american made, american run corporation...
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But they use tortillas Laser! Oh the humanity!
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durn:cry:crycorn tortillas pwn flour torillas...plz dont bring taco hell into a thread about food
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I keep saying de-populate the world by 1/3rd and these kind of problems will go away. There are too many people on this rock but God forbid we do anything about it.
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I mentioned this a little while back. It's only going to get worse and will affect far more than the tortilla situation in Mexico that so many of you are so entertained by.
It's basic economics the old example used to be the "beans or bullets" analogy. There is only so much arable land and resources to plant it with either food or ethanol crops. You can't have it all and the economics will come into play with cost to the consumer very likely to rise. The demand for the agriculterual product will of course drive prices up. Merely claiming to switch the crop won't be the solution given the limits on land and resources to grow the products.
The same applies to the sugar beets. The current crop of sugar beets already supplies the majority of sugar in the US. Cutting into that source will only raise the price of sugar and everything that uses it in significant quantity.
As a stop gap, ethanol and bodiesel are poor substitutes. A totally new fuel source that won't cut into other areas of the economy and are economical to produce would be a far better option. If it can't compete financially with oil it's not likely to replace it until it can.
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There is plenty of unused and underused cropland. Do you have any idea how much land is being paid for not to farm? Plant that land with high output crops like sugar beets. Make lower grade ethanol with waste.
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Quite a bit of farm "waste" ends up going back into the ground to assist in fertilizing the soil without having to resort to artificial fertilizers. Using that waste would end up adding to costs, another impact on the farming economics.
TANSTAAFL
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BURNING!
DEATH!
FARMERS MAKING A DECENT PROFIT!
AAAAGHH!!!!!
all you need is a good place withing 100 miles of the US coast ;) to grow sugar plant for ethanol, and you wont have to worry about the corn.
or cigars
:noid
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Mav, I live on a farm. I know farming. Not everything is used as fertilzer. The government pays a LOT of money to farmers to set aside their land to keep crop prices inflated. Switch the subsidy to fuel crops.
Waste from paper mills and other agribuisness plants can be used to make ethanol as well. There is also a fair amount of usable landfill waste that can be converted.
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No subsidy would be needed to switch to fuel crops. The price increase in Mexico's tortilla's is proof of that. The farmer sold his product to the highest bidder. That middle man then resold it to an ethanol plant to be used for fuel instead of food. The result? Less and more expensive food and no substantive change in petro usage.
The simple fact is that the ethanol was not being made from garbage, plant refuse or any other cast off. It was made from food grade corn. If, or should I say when, the price recieved for supplying ethanol plants with food grade material exceeds the price received of food supplies, the crops will be diverted to the higher paying avenue.
It would be a silly farmer not to turn down $5.00 a bushel for food if he can get $8.00 selling it for fuel.
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Mav, how much did you make in farm subsidies last year? You clearly do not grasp what the situation is today. The government gives you money not to grow stuff. Really, they do.
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RPM, I do understand what subsidies are and how they work, truly.
Now for the sake of discussion, are you postulating that there is sufficient arable land (not federal land but farm land) to supply the fuel needs of the country? If not how many million barrels of gasoline per day can ethanol supply with the unused arable land?
FWIW I like the idea of alternate fuels. I just don't accept it's a cure or able to take the place of gasoline or diesel. I think the solution is something else that will be economically comparable to petro fuels. Ethanol and biodiesel are stop gap at best.
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Do I think it will take over 100% of oil use? No way. Will it take 20-30%? Yeah, and quite easily. Ethanol is a stop gap measure with many plusses. It's easy, it's domestic, it's clean burning, it's renewable and it puts Americans back to work.
I don't have links to all the numbers of acres/gallon but it's feasable. Just look at Brazil as a model for what can be done.
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Ethanol+gasolone is bad! I've been warned that I should not put Ethanol-gasoline in my 1992 Acura Integra.
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It could be bad for a vehicle that old. Alcohol could crack some plastic parts.
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Ethanol production also takes quite a bit of water, which is another resource that will become scarce if too much pressure is put on it. And I'm not sure if we know just how much we can use in a sustainable manner.
Ethanol has a few good points - its domestic, its renewable, it fits perfectly within the existing distribution system, and will run in most of our vehicles.
I don't think its a good long term solution though.
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This whole thread is corny
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Ethanol production also takes quite a bit of water, which is another resource that will become scarce if too much pressure is put on it. And I'm not sure if we know just how much we can use in a sustainable manner.
:huh :huh :huh
If 75% of this planet is covered in water, then why is it called planet "Earth?"
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Originally posted by 1K3
Ethanol+gasolone is bad! I've been warned that I should not put Ethanol-gasoline in my 1992 Acura Integra.
Twice I've already had to replace the fuel pump and lines in my 90 BMW K75 motorcycle. The ethanol that was added to the gas in wintertime ate them up and spread them around my tank. The rubber lines were turned to the consistency of tar as was the rubber mounting vibration dampener for the fuel pump. The internal plastic of the pump impeller walls also ended up melting and killed the pump. At $325.00 a pump I was not and am not a happy camper about ethanol in gas.
RPM, the experiance in Mexico is an indicator of the trade off we will end up dealing with. The food crops will be sold to the highest bidder. The only result of that will be rising food prices as resources are shunted to ehtanol and bio diesel. I would imagine that the shift will go until there is some kind of legislation to maintain a sufficiency of crops to actual food purposes since there is no way that farmers can provide enough to supply the daily country fuel needs much less food and ethanol production.
Garbage conversion will also fall short of the production needed even if every municipality had the eqipment needed to do it now.
We simply need a different alternative to petro fuel that does not impact other parts of the economy. I dunno what it will be but it's not on the horizon yet.
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Originally posted by Shuffler
This whole thread is corny
If I admit that I laughed when I read this, will you all think less of me?
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food crops are already sold to the highest bidder.
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The same applies to the sugar beets. The current crop of sugar beets already supplies the majority of sugar in the US
Inported sugar is a fact here in mid Michigan . They already closed one sugar beet plant because of cheap imported sugar .
We could farm alot more ground than we do now , that's a fact . Farmers had a hard time farming fence row to fence row in the 80's then having the prices drop .
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This article should answer some q's.
USDA Article (http://www.ers.usda.gov/AmberWaves/April06/Features/Ethanol.htm)
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We don't have as much land as a lot of people think. Right now there are about 3.2 billion acres of arable land world wide not including arable land used as pasture (United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization numbers) and the world population is 6.5 billion. That means that currently the world population is existing on about 1/2 an acre per person for food and fiber (textiles). This situation is not likely to improve as the world population increases. The amount of arable land could be increased with substantial inputs (irrigating dry areas or deforestation for example) but will be challenging in the face of economic and environmental factors.
Large scale diversion of arable land to produce fuels on any meaningful scale will be impractical.
Before this latest price spike a bushel of corn was selling for less than it was in 1973. Hell, we all think we deserve a raise every 24 years or so, eh? It will probably be transitory due to the fact that almost every farmer in the area that I work (in the Nebraska corn belt) is planning to plant corn fence to fence on most of their farms and that will probably be the case all the way through the corn belt given the attractive price.
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Originally posted by Casca
We don't have as much land as a lot of people think.
Have you ever been to West Texas???
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Originally posted by rpm
Have you ever been to West Texas???
I have, thats why the only thing that grows is dryland wheat and cotton, else you had better have irrigation.
A piece of commodity trading wisdom,
All trends sow the seeds of thier own destruction.
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The real issue with the Mexican tortilla issue is not supply or demand but subsidising the cost to keep them cheap.