Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: COndor06 on February 02, 2007, 03:47:15 PM
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I have two questions for consideration. Kills vs Assist and off peak game play.
I don't think I am alone here on the aggravation factor of receiving an assist. All I have heard from the community (to include myself) is gripes when receiving an assist and I am not even sure if it affects your score in any way. Even if it does we are better off without them. IMHO I believe who ever knocks the aircraft out of the air should receive the kill just like it would be in combat.
Many players will avoid a smoking aircraft and opt for an apparently non damaged plane. I can't even tell you how aggravating it is to me to chase down an enemy plane for 3 or 4 minutes and receive an assist. I would rather know that if I knock the aircraft, boat, tank, down that I get the kill.
Question 2. Can the orange and blue arenas please have a constant minimum player number assigned?
During the EST hours of 10am - 5pm I find the orange arena set at 120 max with 158 in the arena. The blue arena has 78 players with a 170 max setting. Obviously these max player numbers are rotating. I realize from the ongoing post of environment health what is being done to clean up the game play and client behavior in the game.
I also have to say that in some of my previous post months ago that I was completely against modifying the arenas (number of players) to the point that I canceled my account because of my attitude towards the change. I have to admit that after leaving for a few months I found the changes a little more beneficial than I had anticipated. In fact, I am playing more now than I did when I left. The only pitfalls of the new changes I have seen is that wife ack has increased and I can't find a muzzel that fits
<<< looks around to make sure she is not in the room >>>
:confused:
I was wrong in my assessment of the decisions made to change the arenas and I think it needs to be said.
The game play is friendlier and my opportunities to engage another player have not changed. I am having more fun now than ever before. It seems to me that the positive changes that have affected the game (during peak times) are not consistent with daytime play vs night. For example,
I would much prefer to at least have a minimum cap of 200 in the orange and blue when activity is at its lowest. If I can't log into the orange arena because of the numbers I posted my only choice is the blue arena with 78 people. Hopefully half are not one country.
I believe if the minimum caps were utilized during the off peak times that the game play that has become more friendly and very entertaining (which I believe is what you were trying to accomplish) could also be duplicated in the low traffic times. Your consideration of this request would be greatly appreciated. If for some reason this is not possible would you be kind enough to explain your thoughts.
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Originally posted by COndor06
..... IMHO I believe who ever knocks the aircraft out of the air should receive the kill just like it would be in combat...
Many players will avoid a smoking aircraft and opt for an apparently non damaged plane. I can't even tell you how aggravating it is to me to chase down an enemy plane for 3 or 4 minutes and receive an assist. I would rather know that if I knock the aircraft, boat, tank, down that I get the kill.
Kills are awarded to the player who did the most damage. If you "knocked the plane down," you might only have been able to do that BECAUSE someone else had critically weakened the wings first.
So using your example, the player who did the most to get that plane smoking would have gotten the kill, and you would have gotten NOTHING.
Assists are just fine. If you want more kills, do more damage.
Originally posted by COndor06
.....
I was wrong in my assessment of the decisions made to change the arenas and I think it needs to be said.
The game play is friendlier and my opportunities to engage another player have not changed. I am having more fun now than ever before......
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If you "knocked the plane down," you might only have been able to do that BECAUSE someone else had critically weakened the wings first.
you see, thats what gets me...when I think "critically", I think took it down, killed it...so, how does one do more damage than "taking" the wing off or blowing the plane up?
Critically weakened to me is severed from aircraft, otherwise its not critical at all because he can go land with that wing still on.
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TimeStamp blue Orange
2/2/2007 10:09:11 AM 165 32
2/2/2007 10:39:11 AM 167 23
2/2/2007 11:09:11 AM 183 29
2/2/2007 11:39:11 AM 198 33 // 200 cap until 12:00 central
2/2/2007 12:09:11 PM 175 49
2/2/2007 12:39:11 PM 121 98
2/2/2007 1:09:11 PM 119 117
2/2/2007 1:39:11 PM 150 117
2/2/2007 2:09:11 PM 168 124
2/2/2007 2:39:11 PM 219 130
The problem with what you ask in raising the cap to 200 is that the same problem would still exist. At 1:00 PM the ble would be full and you would have 30 in the orange, even a worse case then it is now.
Only now it would be even more so. Also you tended to over state the time frame.
Also if your post was about 3:00 pm today the Orange had crashed, when that happens BLUE goes to 400 cap by default. And that was the reason for the big imbalance.
As to kill VS assist, he who puts the most lethality on the plane is awarded the kill.
HiTech
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So using your example, the player who did the most to get that plane smoking would have gotten the kill, and you would have gotten NOTHING.
No, The player that did the most damage would get nothing. The player who took the aircraft down would get the kill. For example. I have shot down numerous planes that were not smoking or showing any damage but receiving an assist. Not to say they had no damage because obviously the opposite exist. I actually vulched a plane last night that had popped up 3 seconds before I shot. It exploded within 400 of my plane and I received an assist. How did that happen? I was the ONLY aircraft on that side of the runway at the time. If we are emulating (as close as possible) a real WWll scenario then the following would be true.
You shoot at and damage an enemy plane. 3 minutes later as the same enemy plane limps home I engage it and take it down. I would get the kill, you would get nothing. For gaming I think you should get the assist because it’s easy to track. Giving an assist to the pilot that takes it down is far too controversial and gives doubt to the pilot that actually shot it down.
IMO.
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he who puts the most lethality on the plane is awarded the kill
How do you get more lethal than blowing the plane up?
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Hitech, Ok, I see your point on the arena caps during off peak times. I don't agree with you as I would like to have as many players as possible (within reason) to fight against during the off peak times but I also don't want to have to log into an arena with five players either. Point made.
I would however like to know if you would make a small change in the kill vs assist. Would you consider polling the community via an arena message to find out if the majority would rather:
A: Receive a kill for dealing the final blow to take out an enemy (as it would be in the a real WWll scenario) (Everyone else would receive an assist)
or
B: Keeping it the same.
If an overwhelming amount of the community wanted the change, would you implement it?
Thank you for any consideration you might give.
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Condor, how about this scenario?
So I light up an enemy stem to stern, wing tip to wing tip. Not enough damage to take off any one part. But before I can land the killing blow.
A hero swoops in and lands the golden BB that happens to make the head shot, and gets the kill.
Is that what you want?
Bronk
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Bronk, in that case, the head shot would be the most "lethal" blow.
Ive blown planes up with my shot, maybe head shot, but not always...and recieved an assist from planes that did what you just described.
Ive taken a wings off planes for assist, and i try to justify that by saying the pilot must have been wounded.
He who takes plane/pilot out of action should be getting the kill. A plane with out a wingtip can still fly around and land, plane with out a wing can not.
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Originally posted by killnu
Bronk, in that case, the head shot would be the most "lethal" blow.
Ive blown planes up with my shot, maybe head shot, but not always...and recieved an assist from planes that did what you just described.
Ive taken a wings off planes for assist, and i try to justify that by saying the pilot must have been wounded.
He who takes plane/pilot out of action should be getting the kill. A plane with out a wingtip can still fly around and land, plane with out a wing can not.
Look at it this way ... (hypothetically)
If HT determines that to take off a wing on a P-51, the wing has to take a total damage of 100 damage points (100 is a something that I made up for this example).
Now I have shot that wing and put a total of 80 damage points on the wing.
You swoop down and in a lame AoM move try to steal my kill ;) and put a 20mm burst into the same wing.
Seeing that there is only 20 damage points left before the wing falls off, your small burst of 20mm surpasses 20 damage points and the wing separates.
The con floats and wobbles to the ground.
Score 1 kill for Slappy and deservedly so ... he did the MOST damage !!!
This is a simplistic explanation of something I think is more complex in HT's actual code but I believe that the logic is not too far off.
:D
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Y'all have to ask yourself ...
When in a furball/fight and you have lit some guys up, but have to pull off or die and eventually have to RTB due to damage/low fuel/no ammo.
As you are flying back from the fray ... up pops on the text bar.
"You have killed Blah-Blah"
and you don't say ... "SAWEEEEEEEEEET" to yourself ... while COndor06 is crying in soup ?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
and you don't say ... "SAWEEEEEEEEEET" to yourself ... while COndor06 is crying in soup ?
I know I sure do! A kill that pops in the chat buffer, that you didn't think was coming, is always a welcome sight!
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Originally posted by COndor06
Hitech, Ok, I see your point on the arena caps during off peak times. I don't agree with you as I would like to have as many players as possible (within reason) to fight against during the off peak times but I also don't want to have to log into an arena with five players either. Point made.
I would however like to know if you would make a small change in the kill vs assist. Would you consider polling the community via an arena message to find out if the majority would rather:
A: Receive a kill for dealing the final blow to take out an enemy (as it would be in the a real WWll scenario) (Everyone else would receive an assist)
or
B: Keeping it the same.
If an overwhelming amount of the community wanted the change, would you implement it?
Thank you for any consideration you might give.
Now, as far as this goes, HT has alot of issues to deal with. I think that asking for a poll, isn't out of line, but more on the unrealistic side. Not to say that it wouldn't happen, but the bottom line is, you put it in the wishlist forum (which is where this should have been) and hope that someone at HTC agrees.
After all, it's his game, we're just visitors.
I, for one, would much rather get an occasional assist when I think a kill is deserved, than to have people snaking my kills with a couple of well timed Hispano's.
The old adage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind.
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Originally posted by COndor06
Hitech, Ok, I see your point on the arena caps during off peak times. I don't agree with you as I would like to have as many players as possible (within reason) to fight against during the off peak times but I also don't want to have to log into an arena with five players either. Point made.
I would however like to know if you would make a small change in the kill vs assist. Would you consider polling the community via an arena message to find out if the majority would rather:
A: Receive a kill for dealing the final blow to take out an enemy (as it would be in the a real WWll scenario) (Everyone else would receive an assist)
or
B: Keeping it the same.
If an overwhelming amount of the community wanted the change, would you implement it?
Thank you for any consideration you might give.
I don't have a lot of time so I just skimmed the responses. I'm sorry if this has already been posted by someone else...
So, according to your system, I could have a great dogfight with someone for 5 minutes, and finally get the advantage. I'm behind him, but he isn't just going to let me kill him, so he starts jinking left and right. I get some pings on, maybe manage to smoke his engine or take off an elevator.
Then, out of nowhere, on of my teammates comes diving down from 20k, hits him w/ a couple pings on knocks off the wing that I had already damaged. He gets the kill, and I get an assist.
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Spot on SlapShot, I think that is pretty much how the "System" works.
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Why, just yesterday I was in a Yak9T, and with a single ping took the tail off a P51. Said p51 begins falling down butt-first (no tail) and some git comes screaming in from 5k above and behind me diving literally straight down at the con spraying with all his might. Luckily the P51 had presence of mind to shoot his guns (he was pointed up, you see) and said kill-stealer blew up instantly. Funny as hell, really.
So, IF that guy had survived, and IF we were using your system, even if he hit the P51 just a few times he'd have "done more damage" in his multiple hits than I did in 1, even though I blew the tail off the plane. Who gets the kill? The killstealer. Who gets boned? I do.
But folks do that a LOT in this game. I see more "Kill stealing" than I do out-and-out killing. I've ripped the wings off of enemy planes with a single ping and not got the kills, because the guy before me unloaded 20 rounds into that same wing. He did more damage.
If you're sick of getting assists, that's not a game problem. You need to fly without so many friendlies all shooting at the same con (if you see 6 green on 1 red don't bother! Wait for the next con!). Set your convergence and fire at that range until the target blows up. Or fly cannon-armed aircraft (kills are much easier in those).
Calling for the removal of "assists" doesn't help anything. All the "assist" does is say "Okay, we admit you did some damage to this guy, and even though you might have just shot him down you didn't get the official kill". Imagine if you were on a guy and he just disappeared, and you didn't get an assist message!
The whines would fill the entire forums!
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I think the current kill vs Assist system is as good as it can be.
How often do you actually engage an nme plane, alone and away from any other action, shoot him down and get only an assist. Not often I bet. I don't pay that close of attention but I can't think of many times that has happened to me.
However, the points raised above where in the furball, I do heavy damage to a plane I'm engaged with and a friendly swoops in and finishes his wing of with 1 ping, I should still get the kill don't you think? Or should your assistance, invited or not get the kill?
End result, one less enemy in the air. Neither way is perfect but I think the current system is the best under the circumstances.
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Here's an even worse scenario. What if you blast that annoying Spitfire, and he's floating to earth in several pieces, and the FW-190 whose tail you just saved peppers the remains with lead. Who made the kill? Trust me, I've played lots of games where your suggested system was implemented, and kill stealing was such a problem that it was a good thing that friendly fire was permanently on. Aces High II has the best solution.
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kill vs assist thing is already perfect, changing anything about it would be bad, it's a very good and fair system.
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Originally posted by Krusty
If you're sick of getting assists, that's not a game problem. You need to fly without so many friendlies all shooting at the same con (if you see 6 green on 1 red don't bother! Wait for the next con!).
Thats the reason why you receive assist messages. Never have I received a assist message without friendless around.
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Ok all points well taken. I have also flown a wounded bird home and received the (more than welcomed) you just killed *******. But on the other hand, haven't we all gripped about getting an assist. I hear it every time I play the game without exception. I guess its really 1/2 dozen of one to 6 of the other.
I wouldn't want to be engaged with another plane just to be robbed by another player on the kill either but how many times would that one perfect opportunity happen in comparison to every other advantage on the board. Eliminating assist isn't going to change the kill robber any more than getting assist.
I can tell you that the more skills I acquire in the game, the more assist I get. No mater what your are flying, guns or cannons, as you develop better tactics and skills, you will see more and more assist because you survive longer and shoot at more aircraft. We could take each example to the extreme but the fact remains that player X didn't complete the job and enemy player Y lands his kills. Why should I chase the pair of smoking bombers that are approaching my base?
I get a face full of repelling fire, a pilot wound and a beat up aircraft and if I survive and shoot down the bombers I get an assist. Not to sound mean but only in this game are you rewarded for getting a little better than half the job done. Let’s go to the other extreme. Enemy plane Y has been shot at and damaged by four other players.
He has out flown them and survived. The combined efforts of the four players totals 55 hits out of a possible 100. (just using as reference) You put the remaining 45 hits in the plane to get the assist not to mention that you had to chase him over 15 miles and out fly the guy.
If you don't get the job done the enemy plane survives to kill another plane and land his kills no matter how much damage the other guy created. The numbers would work out any way you slice it but (as in real combat) you get the credit for every plane you shoot down no mater what condition his craft is in. The only value in which you receive something (perks) is for a kill. Why would you be happy to land 4 assist. Just my opinion.
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Originally posted by hitech
As to kill VS assist, he who puts the most lethality on the plane is awarded the kill.
HiTech [/B]
That may be true in air V air fights but is not so when it comes to GV's. Many times I have seen a spit (or some other plane) come along and strafe a panzer/tiger with a few riccocheting beebees only to be awarded the kill once I blow him up with a well placed AP round in the turret.
IMO if you wish to improve the kill/assist system, this is the place that most needs the attention.
LTARcnuk
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Originally posted by mutant
That may be true in air V air fights but is not so when it comes to GV's. Many times I have seen a spit (or some other plane) come along and strafe a panzer/tiger with a few riccocheting beebees only to be awarded the kill once I blow him up with a well placed AP round in the turret.
IMO if you wish to improve the kill/assist system, this is the place that most needs the attention.
LTARcnuk
HAHAHA, Cnuk! All your Tiger kills belong to my IL2!! :rofl :rofl :rofl
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I don't particularly care for the arena caps either, but honestly can't think of a more effective way to do it. I liked it better with one MA, but understand why Hitech made the change. I hate being "forced" to go to an arena with low #'s, especially if my pals are in the "full" arena.
I for one seldom will actually log into the arena with low #'s. I've found too many times that these seem to be full of people doing sneak attack base captures against undefended fields, often against a team that only has a few folks even logged on. IMHO, they may as well be playing offline. But- "different strokes for different folks", right?
My answer to the issue is to "quit", and relog into AH as many times as it takes to have a slot open up in the "full" arena. Boring? Yes. Not any more boring than playing in a low-population arena against folken who are avoiding actual fights. I grab a book, and click away until a slot opens up.
On the assist thing. I truly hope it doesn't change.
For one- I think the issue is vastly overstated. Sure, I get the assist message here and there too, a few times a night. Looking back at the last two months stats, I have a total of 1129 kills, vs 148 assists (just fighter and attack sorties). By my math, 11.58% of the planes I make fall down turn out to be assists. Oh well. On the vast majority, I get a kill credit for them. Could it be the .50 cals? If you're getting too many assist's, check your convergence and gunnery. You're likely pingin' your opponent, and letting him get away to to be killed by someone else. Then you'll get the late, surprise "Assist" message instead of the "Kill" message.
Generally, I even have a good idea when I'm likely to get an assist. I shoot the guy anyway to "help the team". I get kills "stolen" too. That happens to me about once per month. Not enough to upset me all that much. Greed doesn't win you any friends. I deal with the "kill-stealing" issue by calling planes out as I render them "flightless". For example, after you clip the tail or wing off of a plane, simply say something like "Niki's dead" over range vox. It tells others he's not a threat, and they will generally leave him alone. It also implies "ownership" of a kill. Most players aren't going to try to steal a kill from me if all the other players in range know I've already shot him down. It also helps others by supplying SA information. If you're chasing an enemy plane along with 5 other friendlies, you're a fool if you expect to get the kill credit more often than not.
The newbies who steal kills will generally stop if I politely explain over range vox why that is frowned upon in the game. Even if they don't, the pilots who resort to kill stealing are mostly of a skill level that guarantees they will very shortly be in the tower, and too far away from me to steal very many.
"But folks do that a LOT in this game. I see more "Kill stealing" than I do out-and-out killing." -Krusty
That is quite the exageration, isn't it? For that to even be possible there would have to be vastly more planes falling to the ground in pieces than "healthy" planes. People would need to be ignoring the healthy planes to chase after the ones falling as wreckage! Gotta get 'em before they hit the ground! LOL, good one!
In order for you to get an assist, you have to finish off a plane that is already suffering with 51% or more lethal damage. Judging by what my plane flies like after taking damage, that shouldn't earn you the kill. Planes likely to give you an assist often are smoking, missing ailerons, flaps, elevators, rudders or wingtips. Not exactly tough kills. Some may appear healthy to you, but that doesn't mean they do to the pilot flying them!
Also, if I inflict the majority of the damage to a plane, and then land or die, I won't get the kill anyway. The guy who should have gotten the assist will! Oh well. Lots of red guys out there to keep me occupied...
Let's leave the kill vs assist reward alone!
MtnMan
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Look at it this way ... (hypothetically)
If HT determines that to take off a wing on a P-51, the wing has to take a total damage of 100 damage points (100 is a something that I made up for this example).
Now I have shot that wing and put a total of 80 damage points on the wing.
You swoop down and in a lame AoM move try to steal my kill ;) and put a 20mm burst into the same wing.
Seeing that there is only 20 damage points left before the wing falls off, your small burst of 20mm surpasses 20 damage points and the wing separates.
:D
i see P51Ds flying well and faster than most of planes without 1 wing or what looks like most of the wing missing, Same with Me163s,
I don't care about killz, Yes some guys are straffing burning victims, but most of those doing it, are new players, let them be happy to land some killz
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Originally posted by COndor06
I can tell you that the more skills I acquire in the game, the more assist I get. No mater what your are flying, guns or cannons, as you develop better tactics and skills, you will see more and more assist because you survive longer and shoot at more aircraft.
This is nonsense. I made several hundred kills today, and only got two assists. As you aquire more skill, the fewer assists you will get because you will begin annihilating the target in a quarter of a second, unless you are flying aircraft with neither heavy machine guns nor cannon. And, as Krusty said, be a man and when you see a bandit with two of your boys on him, leave him alone.
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slap, guess im looking at it from a practical standpoint....if fighting a guy like you suggested...you ping him up for "damage points" but do know visible damage to him....he reverses you(far fetched i know)...then i come swooping in to save you(once again, far fetched i know but makes for good story:D )....now, if I dont shoot, he can kill you, he is still in the fight, but I drop a 30mm in his cockpit and he explodes...assist.
Thats what irritates me, he was still in fight, was aggressive in fight and could of killed somebody with the "damage" you inflicted upon him(in my story)...It was the 30mm to the dome that took the plane out of action, not your "damage points".
and considering if taken a wing of with a single 30mm to watch the plane fall to the earth with a noob friendly on him spraying away....assist for me.
Ill give you this, since ive went to the 30mm type planes, I have far less assist and more kills than I use to have. But those few like I described just irritate me and has always made me wonder how it really works.
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Originally posted by killnu
slap, guess im looking at it from a practical standpoint....if fighting a guy like you suggested...you ping him up for "damage points" but do know visible damage to him....he reverses you(far fetched i know)...then i come swooping in to save you(once again, far fetched i know but makes for good story:D )....now, if I dont shoot, he can kill you, he is still in the fight, but I drop a 30mm in his cockpit and he explodes...assist.
Thats what irritates me, he was still in fight, was aggressive in fight and could of killed somebody with the "damage" you inflicted upon him(in my story)...It was the 30mm to the dome that took the plane out of action, not your "damage points".
and considering if taken a wing of with a single 30mm to watch the plane fall to the earth with a noob friendly on him spraying away....assist for me.
Ill give you this, since ive went to the 30mm type planes, I have far less assist and more kills than I use to have. But those few like I described just irritate me and has always made me wonder how it really works.
I understand that standpoint, but those situation are like hen's teeth compared to where you have worked over an opponent and are on the verge of finishing the task and some goober decides that you need help.
I think the system that HT has is as good as it gets.
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What he said.
Bronk
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"I would rather know that if I knock the aircraft, boat, tank, down that I get the kill."
Tell all of us why you value kills so much.
Which shops in the world will accept your kills as currency? Which people in the real world, outside these forums, are impressed by your kill score? Which of the people here in these forums are likely to be impressed by your kill score? And how many of those people are going to admit it?
How impressive would your kill statistics have to be, to impress the people here? I wager they would have to be extremely impressive. They would have to be so crushingly awesomely fantastic that a few assists would be, in comparison, as meaningless as the planet Mercury. And I wager that the kind of people likely to be impressed by the size of your statistics are, paradoxically, least likely to be impressed by raw numbers alone.
If the people here are not impressed, no-one else in the world will be impressed, because most people in the world do not even know that Aces High exists. Most computer game fans do not know that Aces High exists. If you consistently scored home runs in American Rounders you would be respected all over America. Even if you killed every player on Aces High a hundred times over, without ever being killed in return, you would not win a sponsorship deal with Pepsi.
Perhaps you feel great about kills and get angry when you are denied them. It is unfortunate that your thread currently sits right next to this one (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198234).
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I think the whole assist thing is whacked, I love vulching anything in a tank and sitting 30m off a runway hitting someone as soon as they pop and getting a assist? Ummm no. I'll tag a dying plane with bb's as its dropping to get that assist to my name, Ive been seeing more and more people going in all guns blazing on a de-winged plane and that makes me wanna vomit.
I can see people in a horde situation where 10 are on a lone spits 6 and someone taking the shot a second or two after the actual damage was done, But people who cannon dead or burning planes ( unless its ib bomber to cv ) make me see red.
All and all the who gets the kill needs checking into. Shouldnt be anyway 50 cals rob a panzer of a fresh spawned plane kill.
90prf
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
This is nonsense. I made several hundred kills today, and only got two assists. As you aquire more skill, the fewer assists you will get because you will begin annihilating the target in a quarter of a second, unless you are flying aircraft with neither heavy machine guns nor cannon. And, as Krusty said, be a man and when you see a bandit with two of your boys on him, leave him alone.
Have you switched over to the MA's Benny? If not then you can't use your experiance's to back what your saying here. At most in a H2H arena your going to have 7 on 1, which I would think is unlikely too. However you have the luxury of time to "finish off" your opponate, where as those in the MA do not in most cases. So as you get to be a "better pilot" in this instance Most of the "top guns" fly a less aggresive style fight were they leave them selves "outs" and such and don't get sucked into long hard turning fights to the death. Most hit and extend, then hit again conserving both their equipment and their "E". In the MA this give ample time for others to "steal a kill".
For me, I think the assist set-up is fine. I do complain a lot about getting assists all the time, but its due to my own failings due to poor aim, I'm just not getting enough hits on target. Its frustrating, but I can admit its me, not the game giving me the assists.
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The only change I would like to see, and I recall HT saying something to the effect of considering whether or not it could be done in the past, is that once a plane is taken out of the fight (wing off, vert or horiz stab or entire tail) the kill awarding system registers no more damage. There are a lot of folks trying to steal kills lately (both old and new, and squaddies :furious ), and I would think this change would end a lot of it. However, I can't pretend to know how difficult this would be to impliment, but I would like something along those lines.
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In fact, I am playing more now than I did when I left. The only pitfalls of the new changes I have seen is that wife ack has increased and I can't find a muzzel that fits
Deploy chaff!! ......$...$...$...$$...$$...$$$...$...$...$...$$...$
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My two cents worth.
This game is something of a WWII historical endeavor so consider this as a possible basis to settle this issue.
WWII gun camera footage primarily determined kills awarded, i.e. generally, if the plane is seen to be destroyed, a kill is awarded, if not, no kill. In other words, even if a pilot shot the heck out of a plane, but it flew off into the sunset, no kill. Moments later, another pilot comes along and slaps the final round into it and it goes down. Seen in his gun camera, a kill!
No matter how many rounds you put into a bandit, no matter how much damage you inflicted, if it doesn't go down, you didn't make a kill. Period.
Therefore, if another comes along and pilot puts one round into that damaged plane (given it could conceivably be landed and repaired thereby not requiring a replace aircraft be manufactured), then he finished the job that YOU failed to complete. You get an assist, but he actually destroyed the enemy aircraft (with your previous assistance) and should, therefore, receive the kill.
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Originally posted by The Fugitive
Have you switched over to the MA's Benny? If not then you can't use your experiance's to back what your saying here. At most in a H2H arena your going to have 7 on 1, which I would think is unlikely too. However you have the luxury of time to "finish off" your opponate, where as those in the MA do not in most cases. So as you get to be a "better pilot" in this instance Most of the "top guns" fly a less aggresive style fight were they leave them selves "outs" and such and don't get sucked into long hard turning fights to the death. Most hit and extend, then hit again conserving both their equipment and their "E". In the MA this give ample time for others to "steal a kill".
I spent my two weeks in the arena, and got a greater than one-to-one kill ratio doing so (again, with practically no assists), without letting my statistics dictate my actions. In other words, I didn't particularly mind getting shot down. Saying that "better pilots fly less aggressively" isn't quite true; the better tacticians do that. The best fliers fly into any fight, almost heedless of the odds. More often than not, they come out victorious. Other times they lose, and learn from their mistakes. We have that advantage over real pilots.
Anyway, you don't need to get suckered into a long turning fight, or take a long time to make your kill. As I said, most of my kills are (and were) quarter-second snapshots which result in an instant wreck. Anyone who sprays that thing in the short time before it hits the ground isn't getting anything more than an assist. As you get better, you become more able to take down an aircraft with a quarter-second snapshot. That means very few assists.
Originally posted by Sloehand
Therefore, if another comes along and pilot puts one round into that damaged plane (given it could conceivably be landed and repaired thereby not requiring a replace aircraft be manufactured), then he finished the job that YOU failed to complete. You get an assist, but he actually destroyed the enemy aircraft (with your previous assistance) and should, therefore, receive the kill.
This is true. But what about the guy who peppers the flaming wreck, or the airplane missing half a wing? The airplane would have shortly hit the ground, and he did little or nothing to cause that.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
This is nonsense. I made several hundred kills today, and only got two assists.
Originally posted by Benny Moore
I spent my two weeks in the arena, and got a greater than one-to-one kill ratio doing so (again, with practically no assists), without letting my statistics dictate my actions. In other words, I didn't particularly mind getting shot down. Saying that "better pilots fly less aggressively" isn't quite true; the better tacticians do that. The best fliers fly into any fight, almost heedless of the odds. More often than not, they come out victorious. Other times they lose, and learn from their mistakes. We have that advantage over real pilots.
Anyway, you don't need to get suckered into a long turning fight, or take a long time to make your kill. As I said, most of my kills are (and were) quarter-second snapshots which result in an instant wreck. Anyone who sprays that thing in the short time before it hits the ground isn't getting anything more than an assist. As you get better, you become more able to take down an aircraft with a quarter-second snapshot. That means very few assists.
So are you going to admit you overstated what you actually did yesterday in H2H.
OR
Are you just going to keep dancing around that.
:D :D
Bronk
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
The only change I would like to see, and I recall HT saying something to the effect of considering whether or not it could be done in the past, is that once a plane is taken out of the fight (wing off, vert or horiz stab or entire tail) the kill awarding system registers no more damage. There are a lot of folks trying to steal kills lately (both old and new, and squaddies :furious ), and I would think this change would end a lot of it. However, I can't pretend to know how difficult this would be to impliment, but I would like something along those lines.
:cry
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I guess I am a little confused by some of the post. First, the assist I am speaking of are not the ones I get from aircraft I have shot at and just damaged. Its the assist I get from aircraft I shoot down that are increasing in numbers and I don't understand how this would be considered non sense.
2. I don't know why some people have to become arrogant in this forum. I just wanted some others ideas and take on the assist situation. This is the first time I have heard anyone say they are happy with the way things are as far as assist go. I don't monitor 200 for obvious reasons but in the rook world I hear assist complaints every night.
3. I don't steal kills and have never been accused of it by anyone. I will follow and engaged pilot to see if he can finish the job and its cool to film those situations as a third party. For me anyway. So at the risk again of being lamb basted here, how can someone steal a kill if the aircraft has been shot down, I mean, can a kill be taken away if you shoot a wing off and its falling to the ground out of control? I thought at the present assist setup that an incapacitated plane was already determined to be a kill for someone. I am not trying to be a smart prettythang here. I am asking for my own knowledge.
4. I think any pilot that would steal a kill would be judged harshly by the group he was in. Its just rude. Thats not to say it won't happen but you would think that if the stealing pilot wanted to have some camaraderie with his fellow team, squad, or country mates that it wouldn't be the thing to do.
Last. I have been involved with 4,6,9 pilots all chasing the only enemy within sight. I am the closest plane at 800 out in a 51 and not closing. I may have a few pings on him but not able to complete the kill. Another plane overtakes my position an closes in for the kill. Now for me it just makes sense that he shoots the plane down. Not to mention that we are all laughing on the radio wondering how we are so lonely as to chase this one plane. Is this guy stealing a kill? Not in my opinion. He just has the best opportunity.
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Originally posted by COndor06
I guess I am a little confused by some of the post. First, the assist I am speaking of are not the ones I get from aircraft I have shot at and just damaged. Its the assist I get from aircraft I shoot down that are increasing in numbers and I don't understand how this would be considered non sense.
2. I don't know why some people have to become arrogant in this forum. I just wanted some others ideas and take on the assist situation. This is the first time I have heard anyone say they are happy with the way things are as far as assist go. I don't monitor 200 for obvious reasons but in the rook world I hear assist complaints every night.
3. I don't steal kills and have never been accused of it by anyone. I will follow and engaged pilot to see if he can finish the job and its cool to film those situations as a third party. For me anyway. So at the risk again of being lamb basted here, how can someone steal a kill if the aircraft has been shot down, I mean, can a kill be taken away if you shoot a wing off and its falling to the ground out of control? I thought at the present assist setup that an incapacitated plane was already determined to be a kill for someone. I am not trying to be a smart prettythang here. I am asking for my own knowledge.
4. I think any pilot that would steal a kill would be judged harshly by the group he was in. Its just rude. Thats not to say it won't happen but you would think that if the stealing pilot wanted to have some camaraderie with his fellow team, squad, or country mates that it wouldn't be the thing to do.
Last. I have been involved with 4,6,9 pilots all chasing the only enemy within sight. I am the closest plane at 800 out in a 51 and not closing. I may have a few pings on him but not able to complete the kill. Another plane overtakes my position an closes in for the kill. Now for me it just makes sense that he shoots the plane down. Not to mention that we are all laughing on the radio wondering how we are so lonely as to chase this one plane. Is this guy stealing a kill? Not in my opinion. He just has the best opportunity.
Ahh this post is very enlightening.
:noid :noid :noid
Bronk
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Thanks for making my point
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Originally posted by COndor06
Thanks for making my point
If your point was. You fly with numbers side, picking off wounded stragglers making their way back to base, and chasing lone enemy around on the deck . All the while looking like the seagulls from Finding Nemo screaming "MINE, MINE, MINE.".
Then I got your point.
:D
Bronk
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Originally posted by COndor06
So at the risk again of being lamb basted here, how can someone steal a kill if the aircraft has been shot down, I mean, can a kill be taken away if you shoot a wing off and its falling to the ground out of control? I thought at the present assist setup that an incapacitated plane was already determined to be a kill for someone.
Yes...if a tailless plane is fluttering toward earth because of a few well-placed rounds from your guns and has, say, 10k feet to fall before it hits, someone can come along and "finish him off" after you've gone on your merry way.
A kill or assist is not awarded to anyone until the pilot of the stricken plane leaves the cockpit, whether by death or by bailing out.
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Originally posted by COndor06
I guess I am a little confused by some of the post. First, the assist I am speaking of are not the ones I get from aircraft I have shot at and just damaged. Its the assist I get from aircraft I shoot down that are increasing in numbers and I don't understand how this would be considered non sense.
2. I don't know why some people have to become arrogant in this forum. I just wanted some others ideas and take on the assist situation. This is the first time I have heard anyone say they are happy with the way things are as far as assist go. I don't monitor 200 for obvious reasons but in the rook world I hear assist complaints every night.
3. I don't steal kills and have never been accused of it by anyone. I will follow and engaged pilot to see if he can finish the job and its cool to film those situations as a third party. For me anyway. So at the risk again of being lamb basted here, how can someone steal a kill if the aircraft has been shot down, I mean, can a kill be taken away if you shoot a wing off and its falling to the ground out of control? I thought at the present assist setup that an incapacitated plane was already determined to be a kill for someone. I am not trying to be a smart prettythang here. I am asking for my own knowledge.
4. I think any pilot that would steal a kill would be judged harshly by the group he was in. Its just rude. Thats not to say it won't happen but you would think that if the stealing pilot wanted to have some camaraderie with his fellow team, squad, or country mates that it wouldn't be the thing to do.
Last. I have been involved with 4,6,9 pilots all chasing the only enemy within sight. I am the closest plane at 800 out in a 51 and not closing. I may have a few pings on him but not able to complete the kill. Another plane overtakes my position an closes in for the kill. Now for me it just makes sense that he shoots the plane down. Not to mention that we are all laughing on the radio wondering how we are so lonely as to chase this one plane. Is this guy stealing a kill? Not in my opinion. He just has the best opportunity.
If you take off someone's wing, one of your teammates can chase his flopping plane down to the ground, shooting at it the whole time. If he ends up hitting it enough to surpass the damage you registered on it by knocking off the wing, he'll get the credit for the kill and you'll get an assist.
Yes, sometimes the people who do that will be treated harshly.
If you fly in large, groups of people though, you'll get more assists than if you fly with only a few other people or by yourself. Also, BnZ'ing will get you a lot of assists if you don't have great gunnery skills and are only able to land a few pings on your target.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Look at it this way ... (hypothetically)
If HT determines that to take off a wing on a P-51, the wing has to take a total damage of 100 damage points (100 is a something that I made up for this example).
Now I have shot that wing and put a total of 80 damage points on the wing.
You swoop down and in a lame AoM move try to steal my kill ;) and put a 20mm burst into the same wing.
Seeing that there is only 20 damage points left before the wing falls off, your small burst of 20mm surpasses 20 damage points and the wing separates.
The con floats and wobbles to the ground.
Score 1 kill for Slappy and deservedly so ... he did the MOST damage !!!
This is a simplistic explanation of something I think is more complex in HT's actual code but I believe that the logic is not too far off.
:D
This is what encourages timid HitnRun Tactics. :rolleyes: :D
Many times said high % damage inflictor has done so after 3 or 4 timd HitnRun passes. Small Risk High Payout.
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Originally posted by Helm
Deploy chaff!! ......$...$...$...$$...$$...$$$...$...$...$...$$...$
LMAO!!!!!!
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I wonder if Wayne Gretzky ever complained after a four assist game....."I shot it at the net and the guy deflected MY SHOT past the goalie!" He has more assists than any other player has points....What does this have to do with AH? Nevermind. I don't mind getting assists in this game because it means I actually hit something and it reassures me that not every bullet I fire misses the mark.
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Originally posted by COndor06
During the EST hours of 10am - 5pm I find the orange arena set at 120 max with 158 in the arena. The blue arena has 78 players with a 170 max setting. Obviously these max player numbers are rotating. I realize from the ongoing post of environment health what is being done to clean up the game play and client behavior in the game.
I see no connection 'tween caps and "behavior"
Before 5PM Eastern or some such time, I'd love the caps to be high. Frustrating not beable to fly with one's buds.
All the Best,
hap
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You're lucky I'm not running the show:p If I had my way there'd be NO personal death messages what-so-ever.
In WW2 you didn't get to look at a transparent HUD and get a read out of an enemy you killed, not to mention his name.
I'd like to see a simple message "Enemy A/C destroyed" or "Enemy Veh Destroyed" NOT you killed so-n-so, but that's me;)
Play on!