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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Xargos on February 03, 2007, 03:40:16 PM

Title: Libertarians
Post by: Xargos on February 03, 2007, 03:40:16 PM
How many of you vote Libertarian whenever you get the chance?
Title: Libertarians
Post by: Sandman on February 03, 2007, 03:50:38 PM
It depends on whether the libertarian is a nutjob (http://www.badnarik.org/) or not. ;)
Title: Re: Libertarians
Post by: x0847Marine on February 03, 2007, 03:54:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
How many of you vote Libertarian whenever you get the chance?


Libertarian, Independent or abstain.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 03, 2007, 04:03:24 PM
I would have voted libertarian, if it weren't for their response to the State of the Union.  Now I'd rather slam my dick in a car door.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: Debonair on February 03, 2007, 04:09:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I would have voted libertarian, if it weren't for their response to the State of the Union.  Now I'd rather slam my dick in a car door.


zOMG is that a politix party!?!?!NO WAI!!!1no wonder i nevar heard of them, that is an unpolular platfrom if i evar saw one!!!11oneoneneo:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 04:35:50 PM
<<<<~~~~ Throwing my hat in...

Vote Mac!!!   Free America.

Here's my proposal:

I'm a write in Candidate on a third Party ticket... called: American.

1.  We safeguard our borders, North and South, East and West.

2.  Total elimination of corporate outsourcing. If you depend upon 3rd World Countries to do American work then you move to that dam Country...yer not American.

3.  The UN is outta the USA... send these corrupt bassturds to France or where ever...just get them out, after they pay all their parking tickets.

4.  American Education.  College is open to all. No tuitions.  If you make the grade you made it!

5.  We are no longer the Worlds police force.  Collect the funds due to the USA from Germany, France and everyone else and pay back to China.  There is no longer a Favorite trade Nation.  You want to trade with us it's straight across the board!

6.  NAFTA is out.

7.  All Ex Presidents are just that... Ex Presidents. So STFU.

8. We rebuild America. Farmers, Teachers, Firemen and the Police deserve much more pay.  

9.  If you can walk, talk, spell there is a job out there for you. Revamp of the Welfare System.

10.  In GOD We Trust is just that!  It's Christmas... NOT Xmas, NOT Seasons Greetings.... There is no Separation from Church and State.  You don't like it? Leave.

11.  All Medical and Dental are paid from the Government.  Got to look good and feel good. This is America.

12.  Freedom.


This is my plan, my Ticket.  I don't see either party with one yet.
I'm not rich, if anything I went from poor to maybe middle class.

I say raise your Country as you would raise your child.  Hug it and Love it and never let go.

Vote for a Free America,

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: Chairboy on February 03, 2007, 04:42:31 PM
I find that the Libertarian party more consistently represents my views, but I vote the issues, not the ticket.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 04:58:32 PM
It's more an Issue thing than a Party thing with me.

For example.  Senate, House of Representatives and Congress shall work eight hours a day, five days a week.  They were elected to positions to support the people.  I work 5 days a week, why can't they?

There will be no "Special Interest" Donations.... you work hard and EARN YOUR money and if you did well maybe the folks that elected you in will still vote for you.

CEO's will announce to their Company employees exactly what there wage and benifits are. No more under handed stuff and retiring/running from a corporation with a Golden Egg while you layoff employees.

We provide for our Youth the ability to expand American horizons within the Medical, Science and Technology fields. This is our greatest hope.  We'll also revamp the Medical care required to provide for the elderly. This is our History.

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 03, 2007, 05:04:42 PM
He's like a friggin cockroach.  I point out how he's wrong, yet he still comes out asking for support.


Should I crush his dreams?  Again?
Title: Libertarians
Post by: Stringer on February 03, 2007, 05:06:19 PM
Use your intimidating voice.....that should do it.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 05:08:03 PM
I'm wrong in trying to save America?  Crush away.  Just remember the present day two Party System has not really done a thing for Americans.

BTW you've never crushed my dreams, I have only made you think.

Ball is in your court.

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 05:11:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I would have voted libertarian, if it weren't for their response to the State of the Union.  Now I'd rather slam my dick in a car door.


I don't think they make Pinto's anymore.

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: moot on February 03, 2007, 05:23:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Lookout, middle-age crisis  - here I come!

Seriously though, what was so reprehensible about the libertarian response to the SotU adress; if we're thinking of the same one?
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 05:27:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by moot
Seriously though, what was so reprehensible about the libertarian response to the SotU adress; if we're thinking of the same one?


My thoughts exactly.

Please explain this one Lasersailor184...

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 03, 2007, 05:34:36 PM
Quote
We understand that corporate welfare makes America weaker, even when it's disguised as a tax cut "for health insurance," and that getting government out of health care makes America stronger, more free -- and more healthy.


http://www.kubby2008.com/node/22


Like I said before, I never understood why Ayn Rand so fervently hated the libertarians.  Now I do.




Anyway Mac, it's not that fact that you are trying to save america, it's the fact that most of the things you have listed would hurt america.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 05:41:28 PM
What have I stated that would hurt America....?

BTW just how old are you now?

Be precise on these "Hurt America" accusations.  

Also did you vote last time?  or the times before?

Mac

Wait.... I just figured you out...

You're a spoiled Rich kid, born with a Silver spoon in yer mouth.
You never had to work for a living.... it shows.

"When I was a littl boy I had a Lasor...."  Did Daddy buy that for you?

Ya know something.... I pity yer kind.  

Pitiful...soooo sad.

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: Chairboy on February 03, 2007, 05:49:33 PM
I think he's 16 or 17, but don't hold that against him, he's still entitled to his opinion.  I _would_ like to hear specifically what his beefs are, though.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 05:52:10 PM
Same here Chairboy.

Thought I had some good ideas to rebuild America.

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: takeda on February 03, 2007, 05:58:06 PM
It must be that some of the stuff AW proposed sounds like socialism, which we all know is the utmost evil, the spawn of Satan's lower back. A true American untainted by those evil thoughts would rather die treasuring his own poisoned blood  than accept, say,a new liver from the hated nanny state if he can't afford to buy it off the Holy Free Market.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 06:01:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by takeda
It must be that some of the stuff AW proposed sounds like socialism, which we all know is the utmost evil, the spawn of Satan's lower back. A true American untainted by those evil thoughts would rather die treasuring his own poisoned blood  than accept, say,a new liver from the hated nanny state if he can't afford to buy it off the Holy Free Market.


:huh

WTF did you say?
Title: Libertarians
Post by: takeda on February 03, 2007, 06:06:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
:huh

WTF did you say?


You clearly need me as a campaign adviser
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 06:17:11 PM
Might consider... I have many potentials.

Thanks for the support. I need more.

God Bless America,

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 03, 2007, 06:22:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
What have I stated that would hurt America....?

BTW just how old are you now?

Be precise on these "Hurt America" accusations.  

Also did you vote last time?  or the times before?

Mac

Wait.... I just figured you out...

You're a spoiled Rich kid, born with a Silver spoon in yer mouth.
You never had to work for a living.... it shows.

"When I was a littl boy I had a Lasor...."  Did Daddy buy that for you?

Ya know something.... I pity yer kind.  

Pitiful...soooo sad.

Mac


If I have to list the numbers again, I'll be pretty angry.  Or drunk.

I didn't vote this time, because I had no candidates I liked.  Or that is to say my candidates got sued off the ballot.  I did vote the time before that because I had different ideals.  I couldn't vote before that.  That should give you an idea as to how old I am.

I'd love to be rich.  I'm headed out after dinner to buy a lottery ticket.

The difference between you and me is that I believe work is one of the only things we have.  The people who work hardest (and not necessarily at physical labor) are the best kind of people.


Also, the laser was my grandfather's.  I only got to use it a few weeks over the summers.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: storch on February 03, 2007, 06:23:16 PM
I will vote for a third party candidate provided the republican nominee is a shoo in.  remember it is our sacred obligation to vote republican if there is even a shadow of a doubt regarding the outcome of an election.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 03, 2007, 06:31:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I will vote for a third party candidate provided the republican nominee is a shoo in.  remember it is our sacred obligation to vote republican if there is even a shadow of a doubt regarding the outcome of an election.



And that is why the two party system exists.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: namvet on February 03, 2007, 06:43:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
And that is why the two party system exists.


And that is why America's future is circling the bowl.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lukster on February 03, 2007, 07:26:08 PM
Where would we be without libertarians? Books FTW!
Title: Libertarians
Post by: Debonair on February 03, 2007, 07:31:04 PM
anarchist library:eek: :eek: :eek: :huh :huh :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :cry
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40714000/jpg/_40714776_books1_203bbc.jpg)
Title: Libertarians
Post by: Chairboy on February 03, 2007, 07:33:38 PM
Lasersailor, your specific objections to the Libertarian response?  You might have missed a couple messages asking in this thread.  Well, and in the original state of the union thread where you said exactly the same thing and didn't say why there either, I guess.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 03, 2007, 07:57:01 PM
I thought I had elluded to it in a sorta vague way.


Anyway, I believe that the success of the country depends upon the success of the people in business.  That includes corporations.  As long as libertarians believe that corporations and any kind of business are detrimental to the people, then they will not get my vote.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: Chairboy on February 03, 2007, 07:58:19 PM
Libertarians believe no such thing, where did you get that impression?

"Vague allusions" have their place, but not in clear communication.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 03, 2007, 08:03:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Libertarians believe no such thing, where did you get that impression?

"Vague allusions" have their place, but not in clear communication.


I quoted where I got it from clear enough.

"We understand that corporate welfare makes America weaker,"

http://www.kubby2008.com/node/22
Title: Libertarians
Post by: Chairboy on February 03, 2007, 08:09:13 PM
Ah, I get it now, you aren't familiar with the term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_welfare
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 08:23:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I quoted where I got it from clear enough.

"We understand that corporate welfare makes America weaker,"

http://www.kubby2008.com/node/22


You have no clue whatsoever in what the hell you say...

You also denied your own name.

Is there anything that you are true about Kid?

Mac

BTW you didn't vote LAST time because you couldn't. NOT Old enuff to vote.
Therefore the choice was not yours.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 03, 2007, 08:35:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Chairboy
Ah, I get it now, you aren't familiar with the term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_welfare


Guess I wasn't at all.  Thanks!

Quote
BTW you didn't vote LAST time because you couldn't. NOT Old enuff to vote.
Therefore the choice was not yours.


I couldn't vote in 2002, I did vote in 2004, I didn't vote in 2006.

Take a guess as to how old I am.
Title: Qouted from a previous thread called "game names"
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 08:39:36 PM
~Quoted from Lasersailor184~

For me, I was a little kid when I picked the name Lasersailor, mainly because I thought I was god's gift to lasers (a small one person sailboat). Now I hold the title because it's ironic. I'm way too big for a laser.

But you'll catch me playing under several aliases.

It started with Cpl_Punishment, mainly played on FPS's. This transformed into The_Punisher, and Punisher.

A little while ago I started using Penguinacity, due to a neat sig picture I found / created.

The name you'll probably find me under now is Danneskjold. A philosopher / intelligent man who came to the conclusion that the only way to fight the current state of society is through pirating and brute force.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To throw names around to make you seem intelligent is futile.  You my Son are totally lost in the shallow end of the gene pool.

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 03, 2007, 08:53:48 PM
What?  Have you been drinking again Mac?
Title: Libertarians
Post by: eagl on February 03, 2007, 08:55:25 PM
The libertarian response has a few things that I think are wrong.

First off, as most anti-war and anti-bush politicians have done, they characterize the war as mere "adventurism", as if it was done on a lark and there is never a time to take a conflict outside your own borders.  This is not a rational position.  History shows a number of times that not only does a conflict have to be taken to the enemy, it also gives examples of where middle eastern problems have been dealt with by appropriate expeditionary military force.  The real problem lied in attempting to transplant into that region a western-style democratic approach to national governing.  That sort of thing won't work there...  They need to develop their own way of running their own nation and history, both past and recent, shows that their unique process involves a lot of killing.

Second, the libertarian response basically gives illegal immigrants a free ride in some sort of barney-liberal flavored "truly open and free society".  That is also not a rational position for reasons that have been debated here in the o-club many times.

A quote on immigration:

Quote
We understand that immigration has always made America stronger, and that "temporary guest worker" programs, fences and border militarization are poor substitutes for a truly open society in which peaceful people enjoy freedom to travel and to trade.


I don't care how peaceful the 5 illegal immigrant families stuffed into the single family dwelling are when they got here, but there are costs involved and I'm stuck with the bill when they swarm the hospital looking for free medical care and their kids get bored and start stealing cars and vandalizing property because the worst that can happen is they'll get a ride back to mexico and be released.

This position on immigration is appalling and that issue is almost a single-issue discriminator for me in determining the appeal of any particular political candidate or party.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 09:34:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
What?  Have you been drinking again Mac?


Great defense.  Face it... you talk the talk but you don't back up anything.

When you get cornered you come up with "Have you've been drinking again Mac"  Sooo Lame.  Is that yer easy way out?

Fool

You have yet explained how I would end up destroying America... Ohh and you were gonna crush me again.. explain.


Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 03, 2007, 09:52:49 PM
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197862
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 10:00:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197862


And my reponse?



Ruin the Country?

2: 2. Total ellimination of Corporate outsourcing..If you depend upon 3rd World Countries to do American work then you move to that dam Country...yer not American.

*You have to be kidding me! You actually belive outsourcing is in the best means for Americans?

4: 4. American Education. College is open to all. No tuitions. If you make the grade you made it!

*Are you saying that the American youth with good grades are not entitled to a higher education? This is our Future. Are you so Blind?

5: 5. We are no longer the Worlds police force. Collect the funds due to the USA from Germany, France and everyone else and pay back to China. There is no longer a Favorite trade Nation. You want to trade with us it's straight across the board!

*I guess you've never really looked at this. Just running yer gums. Research it and open your eyes. It's shocking. Even for PeaHeads.

8: 8. We rebuild America. Starting with the Farmers, Teachers, Firemen and the Police.

*This would weaken America? Ask each and every Farmer that has struggled to feed America. Ask every Teacher that has taught America. Ask every Fireman, Policeman that has saved and protected America. They need to be paid more than what they receive now.

10: 10. In GOD We Trust is just that! It's Christmas... NOT Xmas, NOT Seasons Greetings.... There is no Seperation from Church and State. You don't like it? Leave.

*Is there something you missed in this?

11. 11. All Medical and Dental are paid from the Goverment. Gotta look good and feel good. This is America.

*This will truly ruin America... what was I thinking.

Yeah vote Democrap... Maybe some day they'll have a program, an insight, like Kerry a PLAN.... Vote Democrap, the "Not My Fault Party". Hillery is the answer.

Vote American!

My pay will go to the deficit. I don't need to feed off Taxpayers.

I'll work 7 days a week also and if you are in Congress, Senate and House you too will work 7 days a week. That's how you serve the people that voted for you. Can't handle it? Then it's time for new blood.

Free America,

Mac


See?  You don't present the WHOLE picture, just yer lil cartoon.

Get Real Bud and stop pestering me with yer trivial whines.  Do yer research.

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 03, 2007, 10:03:39 PM
I'm going to give you a handicap.  Tonight when I'm drunk I'll reply and tell you how every single thing I picked out is bad.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 10:12:24 PM
A double KoolAid?

Yer young and unfamiliar with the World.  Daddy bought you a fine Life.

Your a Fool behind a Keyboard.  But that's yer right.

You have yet to state what your addresses to the issuses were, you just insult mine and whine.

Be a Man.

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 10:15:35 PM
No virtual flight sim Pilot left behind....

:aok
 
Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 03, 2007, 10:16:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'm going to give you a handicap.  Tonight when I'm drunk I'll reply and tell you how every single thing I picked out is bad.


Thought you already did that?

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: VVV on February 04, 2007, 01:42:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac




10. There is no Separation from Church and State.  You don't like it? Leave.



Mac


I find this, well for me anyway, quite odd.
I believe Religion* should be left out of state due to some of the views and extremes** some religions take on. One of the foundations of this country was the seperation of church of state and to change that might bring down the whole structure.

*I have nothing against Religion.
** Not all Religions have extremes

Other wise I find some of your other views to be on par with mine.

My Regards
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 04, 2007, 02:16:57 AM
Quote
2: 2. Total ellimination of Corporate outsourcing..If you depend upon 3rd World Countries to do American work then you move to that dam Country...yer not American.

*You have to be kidding me! You actually belive outsourcing is in the best means for Americans?


Outsourcing keeps costs low for the company and for you.  The benefit of having a few people with jobs is far outweighed by the benefit of the product costing less for everyone.

Not to mention how the United States industry is switching from a manufacturing industry to a service industry.  This happens as a country gets healthier and more technologically advanced.  To hang on to the manufacturing when it is not cost effective is just foolish.

Quote
4: 4. American Education. College is open to all. No tuitions. If you make the grade you made it!

*Are you saying that the American youth with good grades are not entitled to a higher education? This is our Future. Are you so Blind?


No one is entitled to anything, least of all those who will not earn it.  

Those with good grades can get through on scholarships and minimal up front cash.  But for the 95% of the college world who do not get amazing grades (I am one of them), the education is not given to them.  They need to earn it by working hard and having student loans.

By making a college education available to all you remove the competitive aspect of it.  Colleges compete for your money by hiring the best professors they can and turning out the best graduates.  If everyone gets into college, then they don't have to even bother hiring good professors for good money.  Any par level professor will do, and suddenly they are hiring the cheapest professors they can find.  And then everyone suffers.

Quote
5: 5. We are no longer the Worlds police force. Collect the funds due to the USA from Germany, France and everyone else and pay back to China. There is no longer a Favorite trade Nation. You want to trade with us it's straight across the board!

*I guess you've never really looked at this. Just running yer gums. Research it and open your eyes. It's shocking. Even for PeaHeads.


Tariff free investments into and out of the United States is good for us.  Based off of the cycle of the current economy (down swing, up swing) investments directly benefit all people in the US.  Summed up, in a recession investment into the US is good for us, while in a high period investment out is good for us.

That's not even taking into account the fascistic nature of telling someone or a corporation what they can or can't do with their money.

Quote
8: 8. We rebuild America. Starting with the Farmers, Teachers, Firemen and the Police.

*This would weaken America? Ask each and every Farmer that has struggled to feed America. Ask every Teacher that has taught America. Ask every Fireman, Policeman that has saved and protected America. They need to be paid more than what they receive now.


Subsidizing anything just prolongs that industry's eventual collapse.  For example, take the Farmers.  By subsidizing them you are paying them for being in a bad business.  They made a bad business decision, and instead of paying for it like the real world should, the government pays them money to sustain their state.  Where they should fail and allow new developments to arise and take their place for the benefit of all, the government gives them OUR money so that they don't fail.

Quote
10: 10. In GOD We Trust is just that! It's Christmas... NOT Xmas, NOT Seasons Greetings.... There is no Seperation from Church and State. You don't like it? Leave.

*Is there something you missed in this?


The state can't pick a religion to support.  This is very evident in the constitution.  However, I am not against the abolishment of all things even remotely religious about our world.

Quote
11. 11. All Medical and Dental are paid from the Goverment. Gotta look good and feel good. This is America.

*This will truly ruin America... what was I thinking.


Again, it's the same thing as the colleges.  The best colleges and the best doctors got that way in order to be the most desired option for your money.  By making all medical and dental fees paid for, it takes out the competition for your money.  Because of this, medical clinics will stop hiring the best doctors, and start hiring the cheapest.  Everyone pays from this lack of quality.


Of course, this is forgetting for each one, who will pay for it?


-Laser signing off for the night with a +8 handicap.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 04, 2007, 03:40:41 AM
Lasersailor, Now take your time to read exactly what I wrote and what you wrote... take your spin out of it and you'll see how foolish you are.

VVV the Seperation between Church and State is not and was not written into the Constitution as some would have you believe. It's actually was a letter written by Jefferson to the Baptists Ministers refusing to officially back the Baptist Religion above the others.

May I suggest that you go a Google on Jeffersons Letter and open another screen and Google the Consitution. Compare them both. It will make interesting reading.

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 04, 2007, 04:34:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184

Those with good grades can get through on scholarships and minimal up front cash.  But for the 95% of the college world who do not get amazing grades (I am one of them), the education is not given to them.  They need to earn it by working hard and having student loans.

By making a college education available to all you remove the competitive aspect of it.  Colleges compete for your money by hiring the best professors they can and turning out the best graduates.  If everyone gets into college, then they don't have to even bother hiring good professors for good money.  Any par level professor will do, and suddenly they are hiring the cheapest professors they can find.  And then everyone suffers.
 


http://nobelprize.org/nomination/peace/nominators.html

#3:
3. University rectors; professors of social sciences, history, philosophy, law and theology; directors of peace research institutes and foreign policy institutes;

Quote
Quoted by lazersailor184 in a previous thread:
Flatbar. #3 on the list encompasses A LOT of people that can nominate someone.
I tried to nominate my friend 2 years back for schnitzengiggles. I could have done it, as the dean of my college was willing to do it as well.


You seem to be a bit Hypocritical...The way I see it now is you fear that someone "Making the Grade" will get into College and pass you by...without having Daddy foot the tab.

Please get yer rant / rave together before you attack me.  BTW I have two Daughters older than you that have full scholorships into College. And a Son that is truly remarkable.

One Daughter is in Baylor Medical College after she turned down USMA.
The other Daughter in OU.
My Son is favoritably looking at MIT.

Wanna know how they did that?  They Studied hard. Honors.

I'm a Graduate of the Univ of Maryland.
BS Computer Science
BA Theology / Asian Studies

And the College you attend is.......?

But for the 95% of the college world who do not get amazing grades (I am one of them), the education is not given to them.

May I suggest that you try one thing... STUDY

America should not foot bills for fools.  Hence "You make the Grade yer in!"

Pfft a Fool and His Money/Education are soon parted....

Best wishes to you in your future endeavors,

Mac
Title: Libertarians
Post by: Masherbrum on February 04, 2007, 09:08:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Stringer
Use your intimidating voice.....that should do it.


:rofl
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lazs2 on February 04, 2007, 10:18:47 AM
takeda...  I would not need to accept a liver from any government hack medical plan... I have my own insurance..  How can we manage to drive cars without government insurance?   Why are you such a drama queen about it?

awmac..  your programs are a mix of freedom and the supression of fredom by socialist ideas...  I would not vote for you because.... much as I like to see a good nativity scene now and then... it is not worth your destroying my ability to choose my own health care.

I don't know what "corporate welfare" is any more than the rest of you... if it is subsidies in the form of tax breaks then it is great...  any time anyone gets a tax break that is good for the rest of us.

outsourcing?   none of my business.

Like storch tho.. I will throw away my vote by voting libertarian only if there is no  chance that a democrat will get in because of it...  I will also vote for the libertarian  if the democrat leads by a huge insurmountable percentage.

Sadly.. that is all we are left with in this country is voting against the greater evil...  the women socialist democrats are simply the, by a huge margin, biggest evil.

If they stay out of power we may have another few decades breathing room.

lazs
Title: Libertarians
Post by: Hap on February 04, 2007, 10:40:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
http://www.kubby2008.com/node/22


Like I said before, I never understood why Ayn Rand so fervently hated the libertarians.  Now I do.

Anyway Mac, it's not that fact that you are trying to save america, it's the fact that most of the things you have listed would hurt america.



Ayn Rand's vision is of the world is evil, wrong, and cruel.

Mac, I agree with much of what you posted as your "platfrom."  I'm ignorant when it comes to the Libertarian Party.  

Good thread.  I'll see what's what.

The most incisive, revoloutionary, and wonderful social/political treatise I've ever read is this : ------>  http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20060526_compendio-dott-soc_en.html

All the Best,

hap
Title: Libertarians
Post by: AWMac on February 04, 2007, 10:46:18 AM
Lazs2  I see the Freedom but please point out the supression of Freedom by socialist ideas.

I need your input and that of others to provide a well balanced, across the board, and acceptable path in restoring America.

For the People and By the People...

Thanks,

Mac  '08
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lazs2 on February 04, 2007, 10:54:57 AM
mac... how are you going to pay for your medical programs?   Any new taxes are an infringement of my freedom and... they make the government more powerful... you don't pretend to make the government anything but more intrusive in my life.

hap...  I am glad that you admit that socialist ideals are your ideals.    I am glad you admit that individulals are evil in your mind.  your example is of the catholic church... that is indeed a socialist entity and... far more cruel than anything that might result from Ayn Rands ideas.

lazs
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 04, 2007, 12:04:39 PM
Quote
You seem to be a bit Hypocritical...The way I see it now is you fear that someone "Making the Grade" will get into College and pass you by...without having Daddy foot the tab.


You really seem to harp on anyone who has a father who worked hard to be able to pay for their kid's.  That makes me think that YOU actually fear it, that someone already has the bill paid for will do better then your kids will.  Or maybe buy their grades unlike what you are doing.

And it's a good fear.  You want to look out for your kids and how well they studied.  

You have some pretty good schools there.  But after your programs they would not be so good for the reasons listed.  If you did what you want to do, all schools will lose their reputation, especially good ones.


As for me, I don't know why you keep insisting that "daddy foots the tab."  It's just not true.  And while I don't make the best grades, I do work my bellybutton off in the hardest major at Penn State.


I am fully aware that jefferson penned the term Seperation of Church and state.  However, the constitution does read:

Quote
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;


Which is exactly what I said.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: VVV on February 04, 2007, 02:30:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
VVV the Seperation between Church and State is not and was not written into the Constitution as some would have you believe. It's actually was a letter written by Jefferson to the Baptists Ministers refusing to officially back the Baptist Religion above the others.

May I suggest that you go a Google on Jeffersons Letter and open another screen and Google the Consitution. Compare them both. It will make interesting reading.

Mac


I didn't know that. I will compare those.
Thank you for the information sir.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: Sincraft on February 04, 2007, 05:49:02 PM
Liberals are uneducated.  They eat their cake, then sue because they get fat.

The educated liberals I fear the most.  The ARE the squeaky wheel.  

We live in a degraded society that thrives on the 'drama' factor.  Anyone that squeaks the loudest, seems to get the attention they want.

The bottom line is, I'll be whatever I believe in.  Liberal if all other options are exhausted and I disagree with my party lines completely.  

The bad thing is also, that democrats are being associated with liberals.  Please do not automatically do this as there are some really dedicated democrats that are both fearful enough to be vigilant toward our safety and the well being of our economy.

The thing I fear the most is that, no one has a plan other than what we are involved in now, yet the current administration is bashed constantly by the whinny 30 something news media idiots that couldn't tell Jay Leno where the capitol of the United States was if their life depended on it.  

Democrats like hillary "I will beat you down with my shrill voice" Clinton, are already on this path of do nothing but say "I wouldn't have gotten us into this" and "if I were in office our economy would be great".  

SO where do we stand?  Hopefully the typical educated American will tell some of these liberals to stfu and take notice as to the degradation our society is becoming, and work toward a better future.

I leave you with a ' famous ' line from the movie sev7n.
People don't want to worry..... "They just want to eat cheeseburgers and watch tv"

We are (at least those of us that work hard each day for a living) ALL tired.  But we have to make a stand and start being vocal also.  Otherwise, the world is doomed to political correctness hell.  Where the libs will worry more about a non existent global warming crisis than the crisis inside our borders with dissidents and those that would have our lives faster than we can say "lets talk about things".
Title: Libertarians
Post by: Saintaw on February 05, 2007, 03:02:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
blahrgh***


Aren't you supposed to put the horse down when it's chaffin'like this?
Title: CHEESEBURGERS
Post by: Debonair on February 05, 2007, 03:14:21 AM
OMFG CHEESEBURGERS [SIZE=9]OWN!!!![/SIZE]!111:aok :aok :aok
Title: Libertarians
Post by: VVV on February 05, 2007, 07:31:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sincraft
Liberals are uneducated.  They eat their cake, then sue because they get fat.

The educated liberals I fear the most.  The ARE the squeaky wheel.  

We live in a degraded society that thrives on the 'drama' factor.  Anyone that squeaks the loudest, seems to get the attention they want.

The bottom line is, I'll be whatever I believe in.  Liberal if all other options are exhausted and I disagree with my party lines completely.  

The bad thing is also, that democrats are being associated with liberals.  Please do not automatically do this as there are some really dedicated democrats that are both fearful enough to be vigilant toward our safety and the well being of our economy.

The thing I fear the most is that, no one has a plan other than what we are involved in now, yet the current administration is bashed constantly by the whinny 30 something news media idiots that couldn't tell Jay Leno where the capitol of the United States was if their life depended on it.  

Democrats like hillary "I will beat you down with my shrill voice" Clinton, are already on this path of do nothing but say "I wouldn't have gotten us into this" and "if I were in office our economy would be great".  

SO where do we stand?  Hopefully the typical educated American will tell some of these liberals to stfu and take notice as to the degradation our society is becoming, and work toward a better future.

I leave you with a ' famous ' line from the movie sev7n.
People don't want to worry..... "They just want to eat cheeseburgers and watch tv"

We are (at least those of us that work hard each day for a living) ALL tired.  But we have to make a stand and start being vocal also.  Otherwise, the world is doomed to political correctness hell.  Where the libs will worry more about a non existent global warming crisis than the crisis inside our borders with dissidents and those that would have our lives faster than we can say "lets talk about things".


Good post, but I thought this thread was about Libertarians? :huh
Libertarians take on different views then Liberals.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lazs2 on February 05, 2007, 08:12:34 AM
awmac...  a lot of the things you ask for the socialist democrats all pretend to want anyway... you are just a democrat who likes nativity scenes.   Free everything for everyone... the government can afford it right?  Protect the unions by making everything more and more expensive and for gowds sake.....  The saintly teachers deserve even more money for their part time work!!

Did your wife help you with your list?

eagl..  the libertarian ideas on immigration are not wrong if you look at it in the context of the whole.    What would first have to happen is the collapse of the welfare system.     No free anything.. no awmac candyland with the U.S. as a huge girngerbread house on the border.

Once that happened...  the mexicans, or whoever, would get whatever wages someone was willing to pay and no more...  It would hardly be worth coming over and staying if you got no services.

A way to prove this would work was the brasero program of old... with no services the workers would live on the farms they worked in shacks or mobile units until the work was done... they would save their money and then go home with it at the end of the season...  they knew they could not afford to live here or bring their family here with their limited skills and earning power.


The democrats changed that... they feel that no matter how limited you are that you deserve a level of standard of living.. that you should be subsidized up to that point.. they feel that even a person who comes here illegally deserves it and that we should pay it.    Awmac wants to make it even more attractive for them.

lazs
Title: Libertarians
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 05, 2007, 10:42:19 AM
Quote
Liberals are uneducated. They eat their cake, then sue because they get fat.


Disagree.  The ratio of educated liberals is probably the same as the ratio of educated republicans.  What you fail to realize is that education can not change fundamental beliefs.
Title: Libertarians
Post by: bustr on February 05, 2007, 02:31:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
And my reponse?



Ruin the Country?

2: 2. Total ellimination of Corporate outsourcing..If you depend upon 3rd World Countries to do American work then you move to that dam Country...yer not American.

*You have to be kidding me! You actually belive outsourcing is in the best means for Americans?


Mac


Mac,

The corporation I was just laid off from in kalifornia has a mandate to reduce fixed assets in its IT devision by 10% EVERY YEAR no exceptions to help meet it's projected QUARTERLY growth for the next 10 years...... Because it can no longer grow inside the U.S. by aquisitions due to Federal limitations, it has a global growth initiative. One of it's strategies was a cash purchase of 19% of a Chinese national corporation to leverage that market. You can guess other global markets it is attempting to and has expanded into. To not incure fixed asset costs in global locations, local out sourcing support vendors are being leveraged by contract. At the same time like Microsoft, Oracle and IBM tech centers are being put in place in India to leverage the "currently cheap and college educated labor force". In 10 years this labor force will evolve into an expensive asset and american corporations will be looking for the next emerging cheap vendor. Possibely that will be back here in the U.S. at the rate we are not graduating computer science engineers.

U.S. corporations now define the employee as a fixed asset. Fixed assets are looked upon as a liability, especially in todays global markets where fluid assets are the measure of a competitors health. Global competitivness is driving outsourceing to reduce labor costs. The real answer is to get american corporations to invest in finding long term answers to make hiring americans cost effective quarter to quarter. If you could use the power of the federal government to force all american companies to drop their foreign vendors and rehire amarican workers at this point, then the federal government would have to engage in true welfare bail outs like the airlines and railroads. It would damage our economy.

Federal Power is never the answer in a free market...government does not make money, it only knows how to take money from the productive segments of society.