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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: eskimo2 on February 04, 2007, 07:37:04 AM

Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 04, 2007, 07:37:04 AM
I’ve always wanted to try this, so I finally did. I recently saw a picture that reinspired me. I’ve got a super wide angle non-SLR Nikon (8400) that’s not very well suited for this kind of work.  I’d love to try it with an SLR with a macro lens.  Anyway, I’ve certainly seen better pictures of this type, but I’m happy with my results.  The top series of pictures show drops of milk splashing into coffee.  Most exposures were in the 1/550th second to 1/1000 second range.  

(http://hallbuzz.com/photo/milk_drop/c4.jpg)

(http://hallbuzz.com/photo/milk_drop/c2.jpg)

The series below was shot in "continuous" mode which shoots 30 frames a second in 640x480 resolution.  All six pictures below are of the same drop; the last picture was exposed only 1/6 of a second after the first.

(http://hallbuzz.com/photo/milk_drop/d.jpg)


We switched to dropping milked dyed with food coloring into plain milk.  The milk quickly became colored.  The milk is in a very tiny beer mug.

(http://hallbuzz.com/photo/milk_drop/f.jpg)

(http://hallbuzz.com/photo/milk_drop/h.jpg)

See more here:
http://hallbuzz.com/photo/milk_drop/milk_drop.htm
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: storch on February 04, 2007, 07:42:43 AM
clearly a man with far too much discreationary time.  great photos.  now go chase your pretty wife around the house. :D
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: APDrone on February 04, 2007, 08:12:51 AM
Ohhhh..  

VERY cool, Eskimo!
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: Ripsnort on February 04, 2007, 08:36:17 AM
Neat Eskimo!

When you say 30 frames per second in continuous mode (not familiar with this preset) is that like movie mode? I don't think you mean 30 frames per second on still photos, right?
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: APDrone on February 04, 2007, 08:50:45 AM
It must be, Rip,..  my Sony A100 DSLR will only 'do' 3 FPS.

Here's one I found on E-bay..

Nikon 8400 (http://cgi.ebay.com/NIKON-COOLPIX-8400-DIGITAL-CAMERA-EXTRA-BATTERY-CARD_W0QQitemZ140081618817QQihZ004QQcategoryZ146256QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

I find it interesting that it will only go down to ISO 400.

Ran into a lady at a gymnastics meet that had something similar but with a decent 2.8 lens.. but ISO would only go down to 400, pretty much negating any stop-action stuff.

Oh, and Rip..  being the artistic photog that you are, here's one of my first attempts at collaging some of my pics:

http://www.ka4zzq.com
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 04, 2007, 08:52:59 AM
Yea, it will actually shoot 30 frames per second, but it’s limited only to 640 X 480 resolution.  My Nikon Coolpix 8400 has a 35mm film equivalent lens of 24mm and can take QuickTime 640 X 480 movies at 30 FPS.  I think the “Ultra High Continuous” setting uses the same movie exposures; it just stuffs the pictures into a folder instead of a QuickTime movie.  I’ve never really played with these modes before; it sure beats saving individual frames from a QT movie.  At full 8 MP resolution it’s limited to 2.3 FPS if set to regular continuous mode.  

It also takes time lapse QT movies with the shortest setting at 30 seconds per picture and the longest at 60 minutes.  I wish it would do 1 and 5 seconds between frames.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 04, 2007, 09:06:29 AM
I really like the benefits of wide angle and find a need for it more often than telephoto.  The 8400 is the widest angle non-SLR digital camera ever made (at least it was when I bought it). That was the selling point for me.  Usually I can just get closer to my subject if I want to; I really don’t shoot wildlife or sports.  Hand held shots at 1/30th second often come out.  Nature/panorama shots often are better wide angle.  It can even get 42 relatives in my little living room.  

(http://hallbuzz.com/blog/bash/2006_07/silly_640.jpg)
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: APDrone on February 04, 2007, 09:15:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
...  It can even get 42 relatives in my little living room.  

 


Yeah, but at what expense?  Looks like you're tearing at the space-time continuum on those Santa pictures on the left wall!

Tell me about the frames.

Neat pic, btw..  There's a thousand little stories going on in there..
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 04, 2007, 09:27:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by APDrone
Yeah, but at what expense?  Looks like you're tearing at the space-time continuum on those Santa pictures on the left wall!

Tell me about the frames.

Neat pic, btw..  There's a thousand little stories going on in there..


I made the frames out of a single sheet of 3/4 plywood.  If they weren’t spaced apart they would fit together perfectly like puzzle pieces.  My wife changes the 8.5 X 11 pictures seasonally.  Our three daughters are up top and my wife’s parents, who live with us, are on the bottom left.  

(http://hallbuzz.com/images/2006/dec/family_picture_frames.jpg)
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: Halo on February 04, 2007, 09:50:51 AM
That's really fun stuff, eskimo2.  Inspirational.  You really have fun with your toys.  Great to see curiosity and ingenuity at work.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 04, 2007, 10:17:47 AM
The set-up.  Old movie light are under the foil reflectors.


(http://hallbuzz.com/photo/milk_drop/set_up.jpg)
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: AWMac on February 04, 2007, 10:28:20 AM
Awesome pics Eskimo.

Great stuff!!!

:aok

Mac
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: ramzey on February 04, 2007, 01:07:38 PM
interesting but underexposed
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: Sandman on February 04, 2007, 01:10:07 PM
That's really cool, Eskimo. I'm going to have to try that.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: Sandman on February 04, 2007, 01:14:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
interesting but underexposed


Looks more like white balance issues... but they're still cool, IMHO.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: Sketch on February 04, 2007, 01:32:14 PM
I did some of that back in college Eskimo and used milk as well as a bunch of other liquids.  I have a poster I made for an art show, I should get a photo of it and post it up.  I used a hi-speed as well, but was a film and went about  60 fps or so I believe, has been a while.  I used a black backdrop with white milk bing illuminated by a light under a bowl that we had it in and did it in the dark room at my college for art.  Looked pretty cool... Hence the handle "Sketch"
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 04, 2007, 01:37:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sketch
I did some of that back in college Eskimo and used milk as well as a bunch of other liquids.  I have a poster I made for an art show, I should get a photo of it and post it up.  I used a hi-speed as well, but was a film and went about  60 fps or so I believe, has been a while.  I used a black backdrop with white milk bing illuminated by a light under a bowl that we had it in and did it in the dark room at my college for art.  Looked pretty cool... Hence the handle "Sketch"


Here's some stuff that i did in college:

Exploding Potato
(http://hallbuzz.com/good_old_days/college_pictures/potato_bullet.jpg)

Exploding Spam
(http://hallbuzz.com/good_old_days/college_pictures/spam_c.jpg)

(http://hallbuzz.com/good_old_days/college_pictures/spam_b.jpg)
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: Debonair on February 04, 2007, 02:41:16 PM
Here is a short clip of Harold Edgerton's milk drop routine
http://web.mit.edu/vrtour/movies/n2_edgerton_mv.mov

and the famous photo to compare with
(http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/photography/images/photograph/large/im00231.jpg)

Edgerton's pregame show
(http://mit.edu/6.933/www/Fall2000/edgerton/pres/v3_slide0073_image008.jpg)

and a ton more stuff, including a long site on Edgerton in WWII if you search
"Harold Edgerton" site:mit.edu

looks like maybe he used skim...:aokmilk dudz:aokOWNZ:aok
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: FiLtH on February 04, 2007, 02:45:56 PM
Nice!! Thats really cool!!

   One question though..that small glass of milk...are you sure you milked the cow?
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 04, 2007, 03:25:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Debonair
Here is a short clip of Harold Edgerton's milk drop routine
http://web.mit.edu/vrtour/movies/n2_edgerton_mv.mov

and the famous photo to compare with
(http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsites/photography/images/photograph/large/im00231.jpg)

Edgerton's pregame show
(http://mit.edu/6.933/www/Fall2000/edgerton/pres/v3_slide0073_image008.jpg)

and a ton more stuff, including a long site on Edgerton in WWII if you search
"Harold Edgerton" site:mit.edu

looks like maybe he used skim...:aokmilk dudz:aokOWNZ:aok


Edgerton is my hero; I love that guy.  I researched his work in college.  In photography class we had to research a famous photographer and emulate his work.  I chose Edgerton, hence the exploding Spam.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: ramzey on February 04, 2007, 03:28:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Looks more like white balance issues... but they're still cool, IMHO.


of course pictures are cool, but more light would work better
WB is about light temperature not about lack of it
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: Sandman on February 04, 2007, 03:37:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
of course pictures are cool, but more light would work better
WB is about light temperature not about lack of it


Exactly.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: Debonair on February 04, 2007, 03:58:04 PM
there bettar than ur photos, nurds
maybe ripsnort will come&fix them:lol:lol:lol:rofl


Harold Edgerton worked on night time aerial photography in the second world war

photo of Normandy night of June 5-6, 1944
(http://web.mit.edu/6.933/www/Fall2000/edgerton/www/photos/Aerial6June44-2.JPG)

kewl photo of stonehenge illuminated by his flying flashbulb when he was doing some experiments
(http://web.mit.edu/6.933/www/Fall2000/edgerton/www/photos/stonehenge-side.jpg)
it si obvious he was quite an artist as well as being a top engineer

his A-26 with a ~500lbs flash unit installed
(http://web.mit.edu/6.933/www/Fall2000/edgerton/www/photos/A-26.jpg)

the cool thing about pushing the limits of photographic engineering is you alwasy get to be the first guy to see something nobody ever saw before....
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: Ripsnort on February 04, 2007, 04:25:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Debonair
there bettar than ur photos, nurds
maybe ripsnort will come&fix them:lol:lol:lol:rofl

....


Not a chance, this is one of the few BBS's on the intardnet where folks actually hammer you for trying to help out. :rolleyes:
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: LePaul on February 04, 2007, 07:43:59 PM
Oh Rip, grow a set, will ya
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: aztec on February 05, 2007, 08:06:39 AM
Slummin again LePaul?
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eagl on February 05, 2007, 08:19:28 AM
Pretty cool eskimo.

Interesting comment about light intensity and white balance.  Even with not enough illumination, proper white balance settings should have resulted in a white background since your backdrop was in fact white.  Your camera may have been fighting you a bit there, expecting something *other* than a pure white background during normal use so it adjusted way off trying to compensate.

Shooting in raw format and picking or adjusting color balance in post processing might be easier than fighting the camera settings to get a good in-camera processed result.  Even though I'm very rapidly filling up my hard drive with huge images that are mostly crap (I don't cull very well), I shoot almost exclusively in raw+basic jpg mode with my nikon D50.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 05, 2007, 08:50:25 AM
I’ve yet to play with RAW, I should try it.  Even though my Nikon isn’t an SLR it will shoot RAW in many settings.  I’ll have to see if any of my software can handle RAW.  The “continuous mode” only shoots normal-jpg, but I/we (my wife and I) shot many stills that could have been RAW.  She was better at getting the timing right; I kept leading too much and shot a bit early most often.  Anyway, my Nikon usually has near perfect exposure and color, but I messed around with things a bit and tried to keep the shutter near 1/1000th second.  I also used the old 1960’s home movie lights for the continuous mode series.  The color was way off on those, these pictures were tweaked quite a bit to get the milk closer to white.  On my first set I only used the camera’s flash; the colors were much better but I was limited to one picture per drop of milk.  

I also regret not using a fresh glass of milk on each picture; that little mug only holds an ounce.  Next time I’ll know better.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: Ripsnort on February 05, 2007, 09:53:32 AM
RAW: Good for still subjects. Not so good for action photography.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 05, 2007, 10:00:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort
RAW: Good for still subjects. Not so good for action photography.


I know nothing about RAW.  Why?
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 05, 2007, 10:16:37 AM
This is the picture that re-inspired me:

(http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2007/2/jan31gal30.jpg)

I couldn’t figure out how the heck the photographer got the picture; a drop-splash just does not go through this stage.  I thought maybe it was photoshopped, but then I got it (I think).  I think this is actually 2 drops.  The first one went through the crown stage and rebounded back up.  On the way up or when it paused at the top it was hit by the second drop.  I’d guess the two drops are about 1/15th of a second apart.  Next time I’ll try squeezing off two quick drops at a time.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eagl on February 05, 2007, 10:23:42 AM
That's a neat pic.  I can see why it inspired you.  You're right, it looks exactly like what you'd expect if a second drop whacked the splash plume from the first one.

I suspect you'll need to mess with surface tension and viscosity to get that near-perfect splash unless you get lucky and find the right brand of milk right off the shelf :)  Using different liquids at diff temps, or that don't immediately mix might give interesting effects too.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 05, 2007, 10:27:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
That's a neat pic.  I can see why it inspired you.  You're right, it looks exactly like what you'd expect if a second drop whacked the splash plume from the first one.

I suspect you'll need to mess with surface tension and viscosity to get that near-perfect splash unless you get lucky and find the right brand of milk right off the shelf :)  Using different liquids at diff temps, or that don't immediately mix might give interesting effects too.


Oh man!  Oil, milk, soapy water and/or dyed alcohol might make some pretty cool pictures!
(I actually did contemplate adding dish soap to the milk to see what would happen.)
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eagl on February 05, 2007, 10:36:06 AM
If you can figure out a delivery system, following a bb with a drop or a drop with a bb might be neat too.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: ramzey on February 05, 2007, 12:56:20 PM
eskimo,
i have adobe light room beta software, it can handle RAW nice, if you like to have it, PM me.

As for , how they do that. You have to experiment with liquid degree of hardness, and drops speed.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 05, 2007, 01:05:19 PM
Thanks ramzey,

PM on the way.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: B@tfinkV on February 05, 2007, 01:43:58 PM
very cool pics!



dont ask me why, but those milk drop pictures seem to suggest some subtle sexual excitement. that might sound crazy, or sick, or both, but hey, art is what you see in it not what was intended to be seen.


awesome work!
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 08, 2007, 07:31:28 PM
The pirated picture on Break was definitly a drop hitting a drop.  Here's more of the photographer's work:

http://www.pbase.com/daria90/milk_meets_coffee_splashes

And here's a high speed movie of a drop hitting a drop:

http://www.visionresearch.com/video/playvideo.cfm?file=droplet%201.flv&flash=yes
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: ChickenHawk on February 09, 2007, 01:25:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
The pirated picture on Break was definitly a drop hitting a drop.  Here's more of the photographer's work
http://www.pbase.com/daria90/milk_meets_coffee_splashes:



She has some incredible pictures on that site.  Thanks for the link.

Your drop shots are inspiring.  I think I might have to give this a try.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: Debonair on February 09, 2007, 01:41:45 PM
eskimo, when u did the flim hi-spped photos, did you experience any reciprocity law failure (i.e. film not responding the same to 1/8000th@f/4 vs. 1/32000th@f/2)?
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: eskimo2 on February 09, 2007, 03:53:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Debonair
eskimo, when u did the flim hi-spped photos, did you experience any reciprocity law failure (i.e. film not responding the same to 1/8000th@f/4 vs. 1/32000th@f/2)?


I took the Spam shots in 1990 or 91.  I had an expired 100’ roll of 400 speed BW film that I used for the semester I shot food.  I bought a Vivitar Thyristor 283 Zoom flash (I think that’s what it was) just for the project.  I altered it so it would always flash at its shortest setting which was 1/30,000 second.  I didn’t really work any light/film speed settings, I just mounted the flash as close to the subject as possible without it being in the actual frame.  The film was pretty under exposed, so I altered the film processing time and worked with what I had in the dark room.  It was really more of a trial and error process, but I always got something.  B & W film is pretty forgiving that way.

One thing that I did that saved a lot of cost and trouble was my flash trigger.  Edgerton and other imitators used microphones and amps and an electronic switch (or infrared) as a switch.  I used aluminum foil… that’s it!  I cut the middle out of three playing cards and put foil between them (and made sure the foil didn’t touch).  I held them together with clothes pins and clipped alligator clips to the two pieces of foil.  The other ends of the leads were hooked up to the flash of course.  So the bullet would go through the food (or whatever) and then would pass through the foil making an electrical connection which would set off the flash.  It was remarkably simple, cheap and reliable.  The only problem I ever encountered was about 1 in 20 shots would be a double exposure; sometimes the foil would touch, separate for an instant then touch again.  I could replace the foil in the switch in seconds.  Sometimes shrapnel would destroy the switch, but a new one was only three playing cards and a minute away.  You can see the switch in the potato picture.

I’m thinking about doing it again with my digital camera…  I’ve been studying flashes trying to figure out what can put out some good quick light.
Title: My Milk Drop Photos
Post by: Debonair on February 09, 2007, 05:26:47 PM
kewl
i used to do some very long exposures on film & had to do all sorts of weird stuff to get light to accumulate linearly:mad: :mad: then we got CCDs:aok :aok :D :D PWNAGE!!!1