Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Carwash on February 04, 2007, 11:44:00 AM
-
I know this sound like part of a wish list for a Star Trek game.
I'm sure this has happend to all AH players: You saddle up on some guys 6, draw within guns range, and his plane starts dancing all over the screen. Seems to me that if all was fair, that guy should be dead immediately. I don't know how they do it, but there are guys that seem to be able to warp at will. If someone starts warping in close proximity to enemy aircraft, they should be shot down by the system. OK, this would lead to the occasional mistaken kill of someone who has a bad connection, but it would stop the cheating.
Don't know how or if it can be done. Just an idea.
-
Ive seen noticibly more warps over the last tour or so. However, here's my take on why you see warps when you close in on someone as you explain. I dont think its cheating, if you can come up with a cheat to do that then you may as well do a more effective one than just a little dance around. People think its someone pulling the plug, but that would just end up with them appearing to fly in a perfectly straight line until the eventually vanish and disco. The warping all over the screen IMO are UDP packets arriving out of order from which they were sent due to the nature of IP and UDP and network congestition/time-outs etc or other reasons.
As you get closer to another aircraft i suspect their computer (AH application) starts sending more packets to attempt to improve the fidelity of movement that you see. This is an optimisation made by HTC so that you dont have to always send the high-fidelity data for every aircraft you see (some will be well out of guns range). Eg at a distance you can get away with sending fewer updates to keep everyone in sync, but as an aircraft gets closer their computer starts sending the full complement of data so that you get better and smoother movement and more accurate position data.
Now let us suppose that either you or the other players computer has some network issues and some packets are lost, some get out of order etc. At the very point when your closing into guns range, you are also recieving a flood of UDP data from the players computer you are close to. Now with this flood of packets all scrambing across the internet (at the most critical of moments), its not a suprise that in some conditions some of them arrive out of order or just get lost - espcially if theres a dodgy connection or congestion. This would explain the pattern you see when you close into guns range they start warpin all over the show.
My point is, in short, that if someone is going to warp due to dodgey network etc, its more than likely going manifest itself when you are very close. This is due to, in my opinion, on optimisations the game makes (smoothing code) and has nothing to do with the opponent cheating or inducing warps on demand.
-
Originally posted by Spatula
Ive seen noticibly more warps over the last tour or so. However, here's my take on why you see warps when you close in on someone as you explain. I dont think its cheating, if you can come up with a cheat to do that then you may as well do a more effective one than just a little dance around. People think its someone pulling the plug, but that would just end up with them appearing to fly in a perfectly straight line until the eventually vanish and disco. The warping all over the screen IMO are UDP packets arriving out of order from which they were sent due to the nature of IP and UDP and network congestition/time-outs etc or other reasons.
As you get closer to another aircraft i suspect their computer (AH application) starts sending more packets to attempt to improve the fidelity of movement that you see. This is an optimisation made by HTC so that you dont have to always send the high-fidelity data for every aircraft you see (some will be well out of guns range). Eg at a distance you can get away with sending fewer updates to keep everyone in sync, but as an aircraft gets closer their computer starts sending the full complement of data so that you get better and smoother movement and more accurate position data.
Now let us suppose that either you or the other players computer has some network issues and some packets are lost, some get out of order etc. At the very point when your closing into guns range, you are also recieving a flood of UDP data from the players computer you are close to. Now with this flood of packets all scrambing across the internet (at the most critical of moments), its not a suprise that in some conditions some of them arrive out of order or just get lost - espcially if theres a dodgy connection or congestion. This would explain the pattern you see when you close into guns range they start warpin all over the show.
My point is, in short, that if someone is going to warp due to dodgey network etc, its more than likely going manifest itself when you are very close. This is due to, in my opinion, on optimisations the game makes (smoothing code) and has nothing to do with the opponent cheating or inducing warps on demand.
That and with the influx of squeakers, that probably have every chat program and mucho spyware infection(all running in the background). I'd bet their system is already stressed sending info. So when you start multiple close quarter ACMs it pushes an already overloaded system over the edge.
Bronk
-
a warp drive was added to every plane in the last update you just need to enter the correct code to start it
-
Originally posted by Spatula
As you get closer to another aircraft i suspect their computer (AH application) starts sending more packets to attempt to improve the fidelity of movement that you see. This is an optimisation made by HTC so that you dont have to always send the high-fidelity data for every aircraft you see (some will be well out of guns range). Eg at a distance you can get away with sending fewer updates to keep everyone in sync, but as an aircraft gets closer their computer starts sending the full complement of data so that you get better and smoother movement and more accurate position data.
Now let us suppose that either you or the other players computer has some network issues and some packets are lost, some get out of order etc. At the very point when your closing into guns range, you are also recieving a flood of UDP data from the players computer you are close to. Now with this flood of packets all scrambing across the internet (at the most critical of moments), its not a suprise that in some conditions some of them arrive out of order or just get lost - espcially if theres a dodgy connection or congestion. This would explain the pattern you see when you close into guns range they start warpin all over the show.
My point is, in short, that if someone is going to warp due to dodgey network etc, its more than likely going manifest itself when you are very close. This is due to, in my opinion, on optimisations the game makes (smoothing code) and has nothing to do with the opponent cheating or inducing warps on demand.
I appreciate this explanation, but I don't know. I have never seen someone doing this kind of warping when he was on my 6. That is what leads me to believe it is intentional. I understand they can't just "pull the cable". If I was going to try an intentional warp, I would have some kind of bandwidth intensive application ready to go, like a download. Just start downloading when you need a goofy warp. Do you think that might work?
-
I think it would, just get like5 Americas Army downloads on the screen, lol
-
Actually, how they typically do it is download some sort of program made by cheaters, for cheaters. At the press of a hotkey, this program starts sending loads of packets to the cheater's computer at sporadic intervals.
You're right that a lot of the warping seen must be deliberate, because as you said it only happens when you're behind them. Once you've stopped tracking them because you missed your shot, they stop warping and start flying smoothly. Other times, they wait until then they're behind you before shutting off the cheat program. I guarantee you won't find many people warping when they're behind you.
How I deal with it is if someone's consistently warping, I ask him politely to leave, apologizing and explaining that it ruins the game for everyone else. If he only consistently warps when he's in front of someone, however, I just kick him out of hand.
-
yea with my subwoofer to my room's stereo system next to my cable modem thingy..amost once a month i have to retighten the wires or i eventually loose connection/loose a crapload of packets.
it would be cool for a system to tell u if your warping.cause i can appear to warp to other ppl but everything looks fine on my end:confused:
-
Originally posted by Wes14
it would be cool for a system to tell u if your warping.cause i can appear to warp to other ppl but everything looks fine on my end:confused:
The only way I can see that happening is if, on your front end, you are very far away from the enemy and on his front end you are very close. Since you're far away from him, you won't notice the warping, but since he sees you up close he sees relativistic effects.
-
yea..bad placement of my subwoofer help with that problem:mad:
but anywhere else it would either 1)A: overheat 2)B: cause horrendous interference to SOMETHING on my room:furious
and i hate ppl that occuses u of cheating when u warp (in my case a ocassonal loose wire or bad connection to HTC)
-
Benny I'd remove that description on how they might do it quick. If you still can.
HT PNGed people for similar thing.
Bronk
-
There ARE people in AcesHigh that dont play fair with some kind of intentional warping device.
fact.
period.
-
Originally posted by Bronk
Benny I'd remove that description on how they might do it quick. If you still can.
HT PNGed people for similar thing.
Oops! Thanks for the warning, I never thought about that. Unfortunately, I can't edit it anymore. Although I have a pretty good guess what it is, what does "PNG" mean?
-
Ill agree with benny.. some planes magically become warpy at 400 off.. esp after the first rounds hit them...
-
Persona Non Grata =Booted from the boards.
Bronk
-
What you all are failing to consider with the "he only warps in front of me" theory is stick-stiring. He stick stirs only in front of you, when you appear to have a guns solution on him. He doesn't stick stir other times, like when behind you or when you have already obviously missed and he's trying to get away.
With a cruddy connection, the "smoothing code" tries to make up for any lost packets by predicting where he should be given his last position and heading. If the guy is stiring hard, the very next positional packet received may be in a substantially different location than the smoothing code predicted. The result is a warp to the actual position, moving in a different direction than the last "predicted" position. Another microsecond, another slow or missing packet, and you get another apparent warp as again your systems try to catch up. As he stick stirs, each packet has a substantially different heading and angle, so his motion is jerky and warpy.
So, why does he not warp when behind you? Simple . . . he is turning smoothly trying to get you in his gunsights. The smoothing code is better able to predict his angle/heading at each given microsecond as there are no radical changes. His motion appears smooth.
The other thing you need to keep in mind is that it may appear "one way", but it is just an appearance. When I was playing on dial-up I would get people dancing in my screen all the time because my cruddy connection couldn't keep up with the data transfer. It was always worst when there were several planes nearby, all trying to send my comp their positional data. On a couple of occasions I was told to "stop that", as if I had any control on what they were seeing. Since I got DSL the "dancing in front of me" has been a very rare occurrence and the "stop that"s have not happened at all.
But when it does happen, it is usually *gasp* always the same guy! Oh, he must be cheating, right? No, you would expect the same guy with the same cruddy connection who stick stirs the same way to always be the one who dances on your windscreen . . . right?
Seriously, you all need to think logically for a little bit before jumping to the "C" word all the time.
And if you don't believe me, then film it and send it to HTC. If it is a cheat, the guy will be gone. 99.9999999% certain it won't be, though.
-
Problem is, we've got a control on stick stirring. "Don't move your controls so rapidly." Stick stirring, even if you manage to do it gently enough to spoof the lock, is itself cheating. It is abusing and expoiting the netcode. While jinking wildly would be a valid tactic to try to dodge a shot in the real world or a lag-free environment, doing so to try to dodge a shot by causing warping is simply cheating.
-
Originally posted by Benny Moore
Problem is, we've got a control on stick stirring. "Don't move your controls so rapidly." Stick stirring, even if you manage to do it gently enough to spoof the lock, is itself cheating. It is abusing and expoiting the netcode. While jinking wildly would be a valid tactic to try to dodge a shot in the real world or a lag-free environment, doing so to try to dodge a shot by causing warping is simply cheating.
Where did I say they are aware it causes warping? Big assumption (again) on your part.
-
I think Spatula and Bronk have it pretty well nailed down here.
Dial-up has been the bane for online gamers in more settings than AHII. Gamers that don't know enough to keep their system fairly clean of spy-ware and resource intensive programs out of the background are another.
Although I will still see the occasional random warper in a massive furball, which I also attribute to bad connections, where I see it the most is when I'm behind a player, and I fire.
Now, if I'm in a Pony with 6 - .50's going, or buff turret with 3 drones firing away... often with tracers on (buff tracers can intimidate some pilots).... the moment I fire, and the data is being transmitted about all those rounds (and tracer tracks) is being sent, that's when I see the most warps as of late.
Not saying that there aren't some players that rig it intensionally. The guy that straight line warps 3 klicks forward, or behind you I still highly suspect of warping intensionally.... but those are rare. But I think the majority are just poor connections. Been in too many MMOG's, and have seen it too often elsewhere.
-
Carwash has a point.
Many a time recently have I seen a plane go freestyling into the twlight zone. Then smooth out.
Somethings up Ban their MA accounts until they find out why they are lagging like a lil biatch!
-
^^agrees
-
I am on dial up from Aus
I have never (in two years) been told that I need to stop warping (IE I dont warp much)
I do see the occasional bit of warpyness
And occasionally loose my connection
But 99% of the time its all good
-
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
There ARE people in AcesHigh that dont play fair with some kind of intentional warping device.
fact.
period.
i had some issues with it myself. in this case i was the warper. turns out it was probably due to a bad ethernet port on my system...when i ran a direct usb cable from the modem it cleared up instantly. i am guessing that it would most likely be a port issue thusly. thank god. sucks being warpy.