Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Widewing on February 05, 2007, 01:44:07 PM
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From General Kenny's post-war book, "General Kenney Reports":
That same day the P-47s for the new fighter group began to arrive at
Brisbane on the same boat that brought Lieutenant Colonel Neel Kearby,
the group commander, and the rest of the squadron personnel. Kearby, a
short, slight, keen-eyed, black-haired Texan about thirty-two, looked like
money in the bank to me. About two minutes after he had introduced
himself he wanted to know who had the highest scores for shooting down
Jap aircraft. You felt that he just wanted to know who he had to beat. I
told him to take his squadron commanders and report to General
Wurtsmith at Port Moresby for a few days to get acquainted and then
come back to Brisbane, where we would erect the P-47s as fast as we got
them off the boats.
I then went out to Eagle Farms, where the erection was to be done, and
found that no droppable fuel tanks had come with the P-47s. Without the
extra gas carried in these tanks, the P-47 did not have enough range to
get into the war. I wired Arnold to send me some right away, by air if
possible. About a week later we received two samples. Neither held
enough fuel, they both required too many alterations to install, and they
both were difficult to release in an emergency. We designed and built one
of our own in two days. It tested satisfactorily from every angle and could
be installed in a matter of minutes without making any changes in the
airplane. I put the Ford Company of Australia to work making them. We had
solved that problem but it would be another month before we could use
the P-47s in combat. In the meantime, everyone in the 5th Air Force, from
Whitehead and Wurtsmith down, except the kids in the new group,
decided that the P-47 was no good as a combat airplane. Besides not
having enough gas, the rumors said it took too much runway to get off, it
had no maneuverability, it would not pull out of a dive, the landing gear
was weak, and the engine was unreliable.
I sent for Kearby and told him I expected him to sell the P-47 or go back
home. I knew it didn’t have enough gas but we would hang some more on
somehow and prove it as a combat plane, especially as it was the only
fighter that Arnold would give me in any quantities for some time. I told
Kearby that, regardless of the fact that everyone in the theater was sold
on the P-38, if the P-47 could demonstrate just once that it could perform
comparably I believed that the “Jug,” as the kids called it, would be looked
upon with more favor. I told him that Lieutenant Colonel George Prentice
would arrive that afternoon from New Guinea to take command of the new
P-38 group which I had formed and had started training out at Amberley
Field. He would probably celebrate a little tonight. I told Neel to keep away
from Prentice, go to bed early, and the first thing in the morning to hop
over to Amberley in his P-47 and challenge Prentice to a mock combat. Neel
Kearby was not only a good pilot but he had had several hundred
hours’ playing with a P-47 and could do better with it than anyone else.
Prentice was an excellent P-38 pilot, but for the sake of my sales argument
I hoped he wouldn’t be feeling in tiptop form when he accepted Neel’s
challenge.
The “combat” came off as I had hoped. Prentice was surprised at the
handling qualities of the P-47 against his P-38 and admitted that
Kearby “shot him down in flames” a half dozen times. He still preferred his
P-38 but began warning everyone not to sell the P-47 short. At the same
time he wanted to go to bed early that night and “have another combat
with Neel tomorrow.” I interfered at this point and said I didn’t want any
more of this challenge foolishness by them or anyone else and for both of
them to quit that stuff and tend to their jobs of getting a couple of new
groups into the war."
My regards,
Widewing
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That sounds very similar to a few experiences of my own lately ... Thanks for the great read.
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Interesting stuff Widewing. Thanks for posting it.
I'd heard that tempers had been so heated that Jerry Johnson had offered to settle it over Morseby with Kearby 38 to Jug.
Never heard that George Prentice actually flew against him. I wonder how Jerry Johnson would have done? :)
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Interesting stuff Widewing. Thanks for posting it.
I'd heard that tempers had been so heated that Jerry Johnson had offered to settle it over Morseby with Kearby 38 to Jug.
Never heard that George Prentice actually flew against him. I wonder how Jerry Johnson would have done? :)
Dan, I know that you collect WWII aviation books, so.....
Kenny's book in now available in re-print from Amazon, but why spend good money when you can get a PDF copy for free.
Here is a link to General Kenney Reports (http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/Publications/fulltext/gen_kenney_reports.pdf).
My regards,
Widewing
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Thank you sir for the heads up :)
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Thanks Widewing. Great read.
Frodo
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
That sounds very similar to a few experiences of my own lately ... Thanks for the great read.
:D
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When you find the references in the book for P47's and read farther, there is a consistant thread of the P47 stomping the heck out of Japanese planes and other assets.
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Thankd WW.... good read...
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More great stuff from Kenny's book....
Preemptive attacks on Japanese air bases on August 17, 1943.
"Two hours later thirty-three B-25s with eighty-three
P-38s as cover made a simultaneous attack on Borum, Wewak,
and Dagua. Sixteen B-25s, scheduled to hit But, had run into
bad weather and did not make the rendezvous. Lieutenant
Colonel Don Hall, the same big-nosed little blond boy that
first used my parafrag bombs at Buna in September 1942, led
the B-25 line abreast attack on Borum. Coming in over the
tops of the palm trees, Don saw a sight to gladden the heart
of a strafer. The Jap bombers, sixty of them, were lined up on
either side of the runway with their engines turning over, flying
crews on board, and groups of ground crewmen standing
by each airplane. The Japs were actually starting to take off
and the leading airplane was already halfway down the runway
and ready to leave the ground. Off to one side fifty
Jap fighters were warming up their engines ready to follow
and cover their bombers. Hall signaled to open fire. His
first burst blew up the Jap bomber just as it lifted into the air.
It crashed immediately, blocking the runway for any further
Nip take-offs. The B-25 formation swept over the field like
a giant scythe. The double line of Jap bombers was on fire
almost immediately from the rain of fifty-caliber incendiaries
pouring from over 200 machine guns, antiaircraft defenses
were smothered, drums of gasoline by the side of the runway
blazed up, and Jap flying crews and ground personnel melted
away in the path of our gunfire, in the crackle of a thousand
parafrag bombs, and the explosions of their own bomb-laden
aircraft. We hit them just in time. Another five minutes
and the whole Jap force would have been in the air on the way
to take us out at Marilinan.
Wewak suffered the same fate. Thirty Jap fighters were
warming up to take off when twelve B-25s caught them by
surprise and duplicated the kill at Borum. Only three B-25s
attacked Dagua but once again surprise paid dividends and
twenty more Jap aircraft were burned and crossed off the
Nip list, with at least an equal number damaged.
We found out afterward that the Japs referred to the attack
as “the Black Day of August 17th” and that they had lost
over 150 aircraft, with practically all the flight crews and
around three hundred more ground personnel killed. All our
P-38s and strafers returned to their home airdromes."
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by bustr
When you find the references in the book for P47's and read farther, there is a consistant thread of the P47 stomping the heck out of Japanese planes and other assets.
Indeed...
Here is an example:
"On the 27th Neel Kearby’s 348th Group P-47s made a remarkable
interception. The group picked up a Jap formation
about halfway between Rabaul and Arawe and, in a combat
lasting about ten minutes, shot down twenty-eight out of the
thirty-seven Nips they encountered. All our P-47s returned.
Since Kearby had brought the Group to New Guinea on
August 16, 1943, they had engaged in thirty-seven combats
and had destroyed 162 Japanese planes for a loss in combat of
only two of their own."
Pretty impressive record.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
Indeed...
Here is an example:
"On the 27th Neel Kearby’s 348th Group P-47s made a remarkable
interception. The group picked up a Jap formation
about halfway between Rabaul and Arawe and, in a combat
lasting about ten minutes, shot down twenty-eight out of the
thirty-seven Nips they encountered. All our P-47s returned.
Since Kearby had brought the Group to New Guinea on
August 16, 1943, they had engaged in thirty-seven combats
and had destroyed 162 Japanese planes for a loss in combat of
only two of their own."
Pretty impressive record.
My regards,
Widewing
wow, now those are some wingmen :eek:
very impressive...
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Biggles, I have a question. What loadout do you take for dogfighting? After our dogfights, I tried the P-47D-40 with one fourth of a tank and six Brownings with the lesser ammunition count. It flies like a dream! I was out-turning Zekes (granted, Zekes flown by the noobery, but still Zekes) and Messerschmitts for the first time ever in a P-47D. I went back to eight guns and full ammunition, and that extra six hundred pounds made it boatlike again. Six hundred pounds makes a big difference on the Thunderbolt; the P-38 isn't quite as affected by that sort of weight change. So what do you fly with?
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"Kearby's Thunderbolts" says that there was a rumor that when Kearby was sent to 5th AF HQ, he actually flew a couple of P-38 sorties and maybe even got a kill or two, even though he couldn't log the flight or the kills. A good rumor, even if it was a rumor...
Pretty rich tradition in that unit during the War. I think the lineage has carried the unit's history to a refueling wing or some sort of other nonsense. Its a shame...
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Originally posted by Widewing
More great stuff from Kenny's book....
Preemptive attacks on Japanese air bases on August 17, 1943.
...The Japs were actually starting to take off
and the leading airplane was already halfway down the runway
and ready to leave the ground. Off to one side fifty
Jap fighters were warming up their engines ready to follow
and cover their bombers. Hall signaled to open fire. His
first burst blew up the Jap bomber just as it lifted into the air.
It crashed immediately, blocking the runway for any further
Nip take-offs.
Say it isn't so! You mean the US actually vulched in WWII?
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
Biggles, I have a question. What loadout do you take for dogfighting? After our dogfights, I tried the P-47D-40 with one fourth of a tank and six Brownings with the lesser ammunition count. It flies like a dream! I was out-turning Zekes (granted, Zekes flown by the noobery, but still Zekes) and Messerschmitts for the first time ever in a P-47D. I went back to eight guns and full ammunition, and that extra six hundred pounds made it boatlike again. Six hundred pounds makes a big difference on the Thunderbolt; the P-38 isn't quite as affected by that sort of weight change. So what do you fly with?
The fuel load is much more important than anything else in the jug when in comes to performance. Remember that 100% is 370 gallons (not to mention the fuel load of the N...). You can fully fuel 3 109s with that and a few drops to spare. In order to extend the "quality" low-fuel last minutes you really have to manage your fuel.
Very few people bother with fuel management, but if you are not in a fight and not in a max-climb, ie cruise or CAP, I reduce throttle to 40-44 man and RPM to 2300. you get a few extra minuts of fuel and those are the quality minutes when you are light and can really suprise some opponents.
Also, you can make it home with a lot less fuel than you expect. Again, you have to fiddle with the throttle/RPM settings, but you can go a loooooong way on 1/8 of the main tank.
I'd refrain from taking 6 guns or low ammo. 2 gun does have some weight but meaningless compared with the condition of the fuel and this is one of the defining features of the jug. In addition, you don't get much shooting opportunities in the jug so you need all the punch. Ammo load - I just go trigger happy until the counters reach 1000. Then I am at the full low ammo load and start to aim :)
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8 guns, low ammo load and 50% fuel i was on benny. even low ammo load gives you plenty for 7/8 kills plus...
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Well, I guess I just don't know my Juggernaut, then. I find the extra guns and ammunition to be useless, as I usually don't have enough opportunities to use them before I've got an angry Kraut on my tail. With six guns, I have to spent more time firing, but at least I get the opportunities.
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If your taking 6 guns to make the plane more maneuverable, you're not thinking the right way about the Jug. Take the 8, and play to the strengths of the airplane: massive firepower, dive speed, and high-speed stability. Start up high, and fight downhill. If you have altitude, remember that 550 mph IAS is only 7-8,000 feet away.
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I'm a dogfighter. That doesn't mean I always turn-and-burn, but I love to dogfight even in big, heavy energy fighters. If that dogfight takes place mostly in the vertical, that's fine with me. But hit-and-run is no fun for me, or for the other guy. In addition, since the Thunderbolt climbs like a granite cornerstone, I'm usually attacked before I can get high or fast.
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Benny,
Look up my squad mate Platano. He has just discovered the wonders of flying the jug in the bushes like a spit5. He hates flying very long for a fight. So he ups goes straight over to the low furbal and flys a P47N like a spit. He has gotten almost as good as YUCCA is at it....I think soon he will be as good.
Platano harrases me to fly in the bushes with him. It can be done, I don't like to, you gotta change your drawers afterwards. But it gets him to stop calling me an alt monkey......:)
Bozon is correct about fuel and engine manegement. Also the jug takes time and patience to get good with it. While you are puttin in the time those 8 .50 make up for allota frustration when you get a con in your sites hehehehehehe.......:aok
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Originally posted by bustr
Benny,
Look up my squad mate Platano. He has just discovered the wonders of flying the jug in the bushes like a spit5. He hates flying very long for a fight. So he ups goes straight over to the low furbal and flys a P47N like a spit. He has gotten almost as good as YUCCA is at it....I think soon he will be as good.
Platano is one of those gifted players like Batfink, with an innate grasp of the movement of air combat. Very dangerous, I lose almost all fights to them.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Widewing
From General Kenny's post-war book, "General Kenney Reports":
Thanks, Widewing, a great read as always.
- oldman