Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sabre on February 06, 2007, 04:49:08 PM
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Nobody has said it better. Please write your congressmen and senators and tell them to stop this travesty of a "resolution."
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Y2Q2MTk4MzgxZmEzMmQ4ZmZhZDRjODc1YjJjNzJmZGI=
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"What we say here is being heard in Baghdad by Iraqi moderates, trying to decide whether the Americans will stand with them. We are being heard by our men and women in uniform, who will be interested to know whether we support the plan they have begun to carry out. We are being heard by the leaders of the thuggish regimes in Iran and Syria, and by Al Qaeda terrorists, eager for evidence that America’s will is breaking. And we are being heard across America by our constituents, who are wondering if their Congress is capable of serious action, not just hollow posturing."
Amen!
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Better yet, march right down to the local recuiters office and put it on the line intead of flappin yer gums at someone else's expense.
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Some of us did and tried to get back in. What did you do since you're in such a mood for volunteering others?
Last week the most I could do was to be an honor guard with some other Patriot Guard members for a soldier who came home.
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Joe Lieberman has it right. Unfortunately its too late for Iraq. Without global war and the genuine and real threat of our immediate annihilation, we can never win against radical islam.
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I signed up on my 17th birthday and served 4 years. There are some here cheerleading that hav'nt set foot in a recruiters office.
Lately I've been collecting phone cards for wounded soldiers.
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What Mav said.
I tried; if you can find a unit that will take me, I'll go.
I signed up at 22 and served almost 7.
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Originally posted by rpm
Better yet, march right down to the local recuiters office and put it on the line intead of flappin yer gums at someone else's expense.
I'm one of those though I did take the air force test in 78 when I was 19 with a 18 year old pregnant wife. I found a job before I had to enlist and wonder to this day if I couldn't have done better in the military.
those of you that have served and have paid the price for our freedoms. I very much appreciate your sacrifices.
I do not feel I and others who have not served should be excluded from an opinion on the issue
Senator Joseph Lieberman because he is right on this one imo
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Maybe if a few more "experienced" people were in Washington, we would'nt have to have this debate.
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that story lists Lieberman as a democrat, i thought he was elected as a independent? Maybe Joe should run for pres as a independent?
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clip from joe's speech.
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you tell them joe.
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Originally posted by rpm
Better yet, march right down to the local recuiters office and put it on the line intead of flappin yer gums at someone else's expense.
Did 6 years.
Nice read Sabre...thanks
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we should just run away, let Iran take control of the region, (with nukes) and hope the bad guys keep the oil lanes open. Right RPM?
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No, but pumping more men into a needless meatgrinder isn't the answer either. The vote is not "against the troops" as the Bush contention would so love to spin it, it's a vote of no confidence in Bush's plan and for the safety of our troops.
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Originally posted by john9001
that story lists Lieberman as a democrat, i thought he was elected as a independent? Maybe Joe should run for pres as a independent?
He ran as an independent but re-signed with the democrats the moment he won.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Some of us did and tried to get back in. What did you do since you're in such a mood for volunteering others?
Last week the most I could do was to be an honor guard with some other Patriot Guard members for a soldier who came home.
Amen Maverick,
:aok
Mac
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Originally posted by rpm
I signed up on my 17th birthday and served 4 years. There are some here cheerleading that hav'nt set foot in a recruiters office.
Lately I've been collecting phone cards for wounded soldiers.
Mac <------ Joined US Army at 17, 1975....Retired at 37, 1995.
Earned my voice.
I don't have time for some armchair wannabee General that has never served other than at a burger place or had Daddy give em all they need.
Pisssants,
Mac
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I'm sure the Libs will have their panties in a knot over my remarks.... Live with it and move on girls.
Mac
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Originally posted by rpm
Maybe if a few more "experienced" people were in Washington, we would'nt have to have this debate.
I don't think you can get anymore "experienced" than John McCain (http://mccain.senate.gov/). He and Joe are some of the few in DC who understand the importance of Iraq from the long term view point (Iran/Syria) and will admit it publicly.
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to Lieberman for putting into words so well what some of our politicians need to be told. It should shame them, but i guess that is too much to expect from most politicians.
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Originally posted by rpm
The vote is not "against the troops" as the Bush contention would so love to spin it, it's a vote of no confidence in Bush's plan and for the safety of our troops.
No confidence in Bush's plan is OK as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure it'll work either.
The catch is that there has to be SOME plan. So far, I haven't really seen any of those opposing Bush's plan put forth anything to replace that has anymore chance of success.
So, it's OK to beech but you need to have a better idea to put forward when you do. Otherwise, yer just beechin'.
A better idea is what's lacking so far, on all sides.
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Originally posted by rpm
Better yet, march right down to the local recuiters office and put it on the line intead of flappin yer gums at someone else's expense.
I'm a twenty-year veteran of the armed services. Don't talk to me about flappin gums at someone elses expense. See my sig.
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Originally posted by Toad
No confidence in Bush's plan is OK as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure it'll work either.
The catch is that there has to be SOME plan. So far, I haven't really seen any of those opposing Bush's plan put forth anything to replace that has anymore chance of success.
So, it's OK to beech but you need to have a better idea to put forward when you do. Otherwise, yer just beechin'.
A better idea is what's lacking so far, on all sides.
Agreed. and while Im not particularly in favor of Bush's plan. either.
I havent seen anyone put forth any other. Kind reminds me of Kerry's "I have a plan" but never saying exactly what that pan was.
Furthermore I see this non binding resolution as nothing more then political posturing more then anything else.
Which may very well play well with the american public who's attitude they largely created. But it is also being watched by the rest of the world and our enemies in particular.
I dont think many quite get the gravity of the message this is sending.
To radical Islam we are viewed as weak. This in their eyes will be seen as proof of that beleif. To them this will be seen as a great victory. and give them the confidence to attack us at will. Knowing they can turn the sides against one another.
As Lincoln said "A House divided cannot stand"
and that is exactly how we will be viewed.
When what is needed is the showing of a united front who just happens to dissagree with how we should go about accomplishing our goals.
A non binding resolution is pointless as it stops nothiing.
It seems our representatives are following the lead of the UN.
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Guys who aren't in the military have no say?
What are we, Prussia?
Oh, I forgot, anyone and everyone in the armed forces is automatically brighter and better than everyone out of it.
And every last one who's in the service right now would have still signed up had they been born with a silver spoon in their mouth.
Also, no one EVER signed up for the military because they were too stupid or undisciplined to make it in this capitalist society without it.
:rolleyes:
I apologize for the generalizations... But quid pro quo... I appreciate what you all have done for me. If I ever see you in a bar, the drinks are on me, and I'll do my best to help you out because I recognize the sacrifices you've all made... But don't let it get to your head too much. There wouldn't be much worth fighting for without the civilian population and you all wouldn't get any pay without it either.
Food for thought, eh?
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I never tried but I talk to the ones who not only tried but have served two or more terms in iraq. I asked them what they think we should do.
I form my opinions based on that. They want my support and they want their good work to be recognized.
Seems fair and decent to me. Those who would cut and run don't care what the soldiers want it seems to me. They are not there either but... they sure as hell want to run the show.
Now... we are all paying for this war so we all have some small say in it but...
I gotta go with what the guys on the ground want.
Do you think they appreciate a "resolution" to embolden the enemy?
Do ya?
lazs
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If the politicians with their win office and power at ANY and ALL costs used that same "will" in regards to foriegn affairs and the war, the situation overseas would be far different. The enemy already knows they have won the conflict here in the States. All they have to do is maintain the pressure and our operations will collapse shortly. As far as a "house divided" being obvious to them, hell our own media spoon feeds it every day to them and their intel gathering operation here on this side of the pond.
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Originally posted by Maverick
The enemy already knows they have won the conflict here in the States. All they have to do is maintain the pressure and our operations will collapse shortly.
It's Deja Vu all over again, innit Mav?
And Damn... we swore it would never happen again.
Ah well, I guess that one went down the same road as the "war to end all wars".
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Yep Toad it is. sigh.
clintoons little election speech blurb about it pretty much summed the situation up. It was the part when she said when she is elected if the war isn't over by then, she will end it. Not win it, just end it.
There is all kinds of talk in Washington about ending, not winning. Why should the enemy feel bad about how things are going?
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Originally posted by john9001
clip from joe's speech.
<>
you tell them joe.
When politicians have noting to say, which is most of the time, they harp on the ubiquitous 'message'. I'll bet you didn't know Joe was a mind reader, hes got that congressional talent to crawl inside the average Iraqi skull and know what they'll think... before they even think it!!
Message speeches, besides being a waste of time, are assumptions based on opinions made to sound 'rah rah motivational' by the speech writer on staff.
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it doesnt take a mind reader to know what the Iraqis think, the peaceful majority of Iraqis think we will abandon them like we did to south Vietnam, the terrorists know they only have to hang on a little longer before the Americans run home to mommy.
opps, by run home i really meant "redeploy"
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Originally posted by x0847Marine
hes got that congressional talent to crawl inside the average Iraqi skull and know what they'll think... before they even think it!!
How much prescience does it take to see that when we pull out there's going to be a whole lot more killing?
You think suddenly it'll be all hearts and flowers between the sectarian factions? Or bloody civil war?
You think the "average Iraqi" doesn't have an idea which is more likely?
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Originally posted by rpm
No, but pumping more men into a needless meatgrinder isn't the answer either. The vote is not "against the troops" as the Bush contention would so love to spin it, it's a vote of no confidence in Bush's plan and for the safety of our troops.
That means alot more than a magnetic yellow ribbon. Thanks.
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Originally posted by Toad
How much prescience does it take to see that when we pull out there's going to be a whole lot more killing?
You think suddenly it'll be all hearts and flowers between the sectarian factions? Or bloody civil war?
You think the "average Iraqi" doesn't have an idea which is more likely?
I'm talking about this absurd 'message' rhetoric.. MOAM already accomplished.
Boosh sent the Mother Of All Messages; he is the HMFIC, its his military, and hes going to do wtf he wants which includes staying in Iraq until they drag him kicking & screaming from the White House. END OF MESSAGE.
Joe and his page molesting drunk land scamming cronies can write all the letters to Bush they want, its utterly ridiculous to assume that moderates and enemies alike will care after the MOAM.
Besides that, messages are being delivered 24/7 by drunk party hacks seeking face time on cable news, they spew their opinions ad nauseum... moderates & enemies already know the score here, some meaningless letter from a handful of party hacks is just 1 more piece of noise... but Joe wants us to believe that for some reason this letter will cut through all the message static and be the worst thing ever.. lame political posturing at its pathetic best.
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Maybe if the HMFIC had listened to a few generals with combat experience instead of firing them and putting Yes men in their place, we would already have a stable government in Baghdad and troops back home.
Bush spent his political capitol and is now politically bankrupt. Too bad it took over 3000 brave American lives since 9/11 for it to happen.
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i don't see how we can pull out of Iraq, tho if democrats can make it happen, they will.
P.S. me and my little brother did enlist in the US Army in 1969. because we thought it was the right thing to do for our country, and we could get a college education in return. Were we dumb kids? maybe.... but we were true Americans. I worry today about America's ability to do anything with a single will. maybe those days are over, and we are doomed to a world-wide paralizing malaise, where the only people who can truley ACT are hungry Islamists.
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Nice rant.
I see you didn't address anything I wrote, however.
When you're done spewing, I'd appreciate an answer to those questions. The ones I actually asked.
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what Gunthr said ..
I fear we as a nation of PC limp wrists do not have the fortitude to sustain any conflict these days that is not wrapped up in 30 days or less ...
our enemies realize this as well ..
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Originally posted by rpm
Better yet, march right down to the local recuiters office and put it on the line intead of flappin yer gums at someone else's expense.
What a tool. RPM, you better know who your talking about here. Most of us have servered. Have you?
And the Sentor has it right. I support the war. And I have a investment in Iraq now. One of my wifes son is a Marine there. He's not a grunt, but at a airbase away for most of the troubles. Hopefully I will never have to comfort her if the worst happens.
Fireball
ex SSG,US Army
Desert Storm VET
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Originally posted by firbal
What a tool. RPM, you better know who your talking about here. Most of us have servered. Have you?
Yes, I know who I'm talking about and it's not that hard to figure out. I'm also talking about chickenhawks micromanaging a war they know nothing about (other than how to turn a profit) and playing the fear card anytime someone questions their actions. I'm talking about sending our children to war while not asking the same of your own.
I asked this same question in a different thread, but it fits here as well. If Wesley Clark had won the '04 election, do you think we would still be bogged down in the Iraqi quagmire?
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I think either we'd still be there taking casualties or we'd have already pulled out and have let the civil war begin.
I don't think Clark could have pulled a rabbit out of the hat.
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we don't send "children to war ".
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Originally posted by john9001
we don't send "children to war " while their parents are in office.
Fixed
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Originally posted by Toad
I think either we'd still be there taking casualties or we'd have already pulled out and have let the civil war begin.
I don't think Clark could have pulled a rabbit out of the hat.
The rabbit was already dead by 2004.
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I support Lieberman's message. I like what he said, and find it sad that many do not see the wisdom in his words.
It is interesting to hear though what many here seem to believe in. I often wonder whether they "get it" as the only possible way to win is like Lt. Gen. David Petreaus is to win the battle of "wills".
I fear we are in the process of losing that here. I fear that the actions of many power hungry politicians so very concerned with "power" in Washington will undermine anything and everything we as a nation put forth to win this war that it is almost impossible to continue with out addressing the issue here at home.
I think that starts with the truth. That truth is that devisiveness is not the key to winning the war. Support our troops, support our plan, or come up with a different plan. Either way, be truthful about your motives, and do not try to use the "I care about troops card" to make a grab for power.
Truly care. Come up with a plan to win, not end the war.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
The rabbit was already dead by 2004.
Glad you agree! Clark never was teh supahmahn.
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I think speeches like Leiberman's are scarier than terrorism. This is how our rights are eroded. Bit by bit using scare tactics. Don't say what you want, it would embolden the enemy!
BS.
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If you don't think that resolution indicates to our enemies that they just have to hold on a bit longer, I can't help you there.
Seems excruciatingly obvious to me.
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Our Enemies?
You mean the enemies of truth justice and the American way, or the enemies of the government and stability in Iraq, or the people who actually attacked us?
Not all the same people you know.
Personally I think we should concentrate on the last group.
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I'd say the folks currently shooting at US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, along with the folks that would love to strike directly at the US along the lines of 9/11.