Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Xargos on February 08, 2007, 12:10:08 AM
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Which of these forms of government do you think America really is?
Capitalism
In a capitalist or free-market economy, people own their own businesses and property and must buy services for private use, such as healthcare.
Socialism
Socialist governments own many of the larger industries and provide education, health and welfare services while allowing citizens some economic choices
Communism
In a communist country, the government owns all businesses and farms and provides its people's healthcare, education and welfare.
Dictatorship
Rule by a single leader who has not been elected and may use force to keep control. In a military dictatorship, the army is in control. Usually, there is little or no attention to public opinion or individual rights.
Totalitarian
Rule by a single political party.
People are forced to do what the government tells them and may also be prevented from leaving the country.
Theocracy
A form of government where the rulers claim to be ruling on behalf of a set of religious ideas, or as direct agents of a deity.
Monarchy
A monarchy has a king or queen, who sometimes has absolute power. Power is passed along through the family
Parliamentary
A parliamentary system is led by representatives of the people. Each is chosen as a member of a political party and remains in power as long as his/her party does
Republic
A republic is led by representatives of the voters. Each is individually chosen for a set period of time.
Anarchy
Anarchy is a situation where there is no government.
This can happen after a civil war in a country, when a government has been destroyed and rival groups are fighting to take its place.
Revolutionary
The existing structure is overthrown by a completely new group. The new group can be very small - such as the military - or very large - as in a popular revolution. After a period of time, this 'becomes' one of the other type of government (unless there is another coup or uprising)
Totalitarian
Rule by a single political party.
Votes for alternative candidates and parties are simply not allowed. Citizens are allowed and 'encouraged' to vote, but only for the government's chosen candidates.
Oligarchy/Plutocracy
A form of government which consists of rule by an elite group who rule in their own interests, especially the accumulation of wealth and privilege. Only certain members of society have a valid voice in the government. This can reflect (but is not limited to) economic interests, a particular religious tradition (theocracy), or familial rule (monarchy).
Democracy
In a democracy, the government is elected by the people. Everyone who is eligible to vote - which is a majority of the population - has a chance to have their say over who runs the country.
http://www.stutzfamily.com/mrstutz/WorldAffairs/typesofgovt.html
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Kind of government where you can get away with murdering 75 people.
http://www.public-action.com/911/downing.html
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(http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/1278/blackhelicopterra5.gif)
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If you mean the United States of America, it is best defined as a Republic, as far as the written Constitution lays out the sphere's of power and procedures.
Capitalism is an economic system, not so much a form of government. And you're definition of Democracy is off a little.... a true democracy, everyone has the vote on issues, not on their representatives.
The U.S.A. is sometimes referred to as a "Representative Democracy", which is just another way to say "Republic".
Although, there seems to be efforts, or at least claims made, or conspiracy theories, on the parts of some people to add Military Junta, Autocracy, or quasi-Fascist government to the mix. "Signing statements" anyone? Secret prisons? Private military? Unregulated and unmoderated wiretapping?
:noid
If you consider the power in influence of Special Interest Groups in American politics, then the U.S.A. is now a Oligarchy/Plutocracy form of government in practice.
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There were that many citizens who were needlessly killed at waco by government forces including more than 26 children.
We have a constitutional republic who's democracy is held in check by a bill of rights.
Pure forms of all the governments mentioned (including no government) are evil.. capable of turning an individuals life into hell on earth.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
capable of turning an individuals life into hell on earth.
ie No guns, no hotrods, expensive gas and no Walmart.
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and having to ride around on mopeds... don't forget that. Oh... and don't forget to put on your helmet ya heah?
lazs
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The list is off, mainly in that you list political ideals as forms of government. Capitalism, Revolutionary, and Socialism aren't forms of government.
Capitalism is the thought that government shouldn't have any hands in business at all.
Revolution is just what happens to over throw a government.
Socialism is possibly the most mis-defined word in human history, especially recently. Socialism is the thought that you have the right to legislate over other people's personal choices. And there's a lot more to it then you think. I.E. Gay Marriage Ban, Fuel Efficient Cars, gun control, state religions, no big companies...
And your definition of Anarchy is politically skewed. Anarchy is just the lack of government. The thing is that governments have been using the term Anarchy in such a negative connotation that any mention of it is thought of as evil. The fighting you mention can happen in any form of government. The fact that you limit it to Anarchy shows how biased you are.
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Capitalism, Socialism and Communism are not forms of government. They are economic-political philosophies. Anarchy is by definition not a form of government.
I'd say the USA is officially a Republic, but unofficially a Plutocracy being ruled by a privileged elite.
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I see no one clicked the link at bottom of my post, if you did you would see I did not write the list.
Guess I should have stated that in first post.
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i didn't click the link cause i assumed the page at the URL would be as boring as the post you started the thread withzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzz
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I love you to Deb. kiss kiss :D
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Originally posted by Xargos
I see no one clicked the link at bottom of my post, if you did you would see I did not write the list.
Guess I should have stated that in first post.
The site you linked to dosn't say that Capitalism, Socialism and Communism are forms of government. You did, not that it matters.
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Originally posted by Viking
Capitalism, Socialism and Communism are not forms of government. They are economic-political philosophies. Anarchy is by definition not a form of government.
I'd say the USA is officially a Republic, but unofficially a Plutocracy being ruled by a privileged elite.
fair assessment
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Originally posted by lazs2
and having to ride around on mopeds... don't forget that. Oh... and don't forget to put on your helmet ya heah?
lazs
lol Yes, according to you Ilive in hell.
Interestingly a great American had this to say about where I live, while on a visit:
"You can go to heaven if you like, I'll stay here."
- Mark Twain
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There were that many citizens who were needlessly killed at waco by government forces including more than 26 children.
As if the branch Davidians have no culpability in chosing to fight and ignite their gas bombs. Yes I really want to have some cult hording military hardware following some charismatic nut. How long before the nut decides holding up in the compound is not enuf and goes on the offensive.
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Originally posted by DREDger
There were that many citizens who were needlessly killed at waco by government forces including more than 26 children.
As if the branch Davidians have no culpability in chosing to fight and ignite their gas bombs. Yes I really want to have some cult hording military hardware following some charismatic nut. How long before the nut decides holding up in the compound is not enuf and goes on the offensive.
Let's have some storm troopers try to assault your house after you have done nothing. Would you bend over for them? Or would you also lube up?
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Let's have some storm troopers try to assault your house after you have done nothing
What a revisionist historian viewpoint...and total crap as well.
First off, no I would not fight against law enforcement who had a legal search and arrest warrant. I would avail myself of legal representation and the press. What else would you expect a sane person to do? Fight the entire USA, subject my family to hail of bullets....ludicrous.
Secondly, when you say 'had done nuttin wrong', how about you consider child molesting, running a drug lab and also converting firearms to fully automatic weapons.
Look, no doubt the ATF botched the job, hell even a congressional panel says that. From what I understand the Koresh guy even did his shopping in town, they could of picked him up there.
Lets not though, attribute or equate this cult to some 'patriotic just minding our own business folks'. This guy was a nut, so were his followers, so was Timmothy McVey who vaporized good people in the name of patriotism.
Last thing I want is guys like that arming for WW3 an hour away from my house.
Get a clue.
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The FBI admitted lying about child abuse so that they could get janet reno to ok the use of gas.
Having fully automatic weapons isn't against the law, and it should be a right.
A drug lab? that's the first I've heard about that.
I have no sympathy for pigs that enforce immoral mandates and laws.
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Cult is justs another word for religion to me. As long as religious wackos aren't cramping anybody elses style they're free to be as stupid and armed as they want to be, this is america.
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Originally posted by DREDger
Let's have some storm troopers try to assault your house after you have done nothing
What a revisionist historian viewpoint...and total crap as well.
First off, no I would not fight against law enforcement who had a legal search and arrest warrant. I would avail myself of legal representation and the press. What else would you expect a sane person to do? Fight the entire USA, subject my family to hail of bullets....ludicrous.
Secondly, when you say 'had done nuttin wrong', how about you consider child molesting, running a drug lab and also converting firearms to fully automatic weapons.
Look, no doubt the ATF botched the job, hell even a congressional panel says that. From what I understand the Koresh guy even did his shopping in town, they could of picked him up there.
Lets not though, attribute or equate this cult to some 'patriotic just minding our own business folks'. This guy was a nut, so were his followers, so was Timmothy McVey who vaporized good people in the name of patriotism.
Last thing I want is guys like that arming for WW3 an hour away from my house.
Get a clue.
ya well except none of that was going on. the guy was a nutcase but being a nutcase isn't illegal. what the clinton administration did on the other hand was.
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Originally posted by DREDger
Last thing I want is guys like that arming for WW3 an hour away from my house.
Get a clue.
Translation: I'm fine with stripping away other's basic human rights if it helps me sleep at night. Afterall it's the governments job to prepare for wwIII, not mine and yours. Everyone should default his personal protection unto our parents, I mean leaders
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I have no sympathy for pigs that enforce immoral mandates and laws
lol, sounds like you were freeze dried in the 60's and just got thawed out. You forgot to say 'honkie pigs'
What immoral mandates are you talking about? You think we live in such a totalitarian society here? rediculous.
As far a stripping basic human rights? Thats more like right to live, food, medical attention, that sort of thing. Having automatic weapons...well..not so much.
And yes, I do consider it the governments responsibility to prepare for war, thats what a pay taxes for, that and keeping order and a police force to protect me against criminals. I do own firearms, better shot than most. I don't need a fully auto AK-47 to protect my property. BTW, fully auto weopons against the law, you don't like, move to Saudi Arabia or write your congressman to change the law...good luck with that.
Pull the tinfoil off our head.
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You live in texas like I do. Fully automatic weapons as well as sound suppressors are perfectly legal after you pay a little bit of government enforced extortion. We're a lot like russia in that way.
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Law enforcement comes to your house with a search warrant or an arrest warrant, you surrender, simple as that. Your not going to win armed conflict against law enforcement, u'll just get yourself and yours killed or hurt, what is the wisdom in that.
You go to court and get a jury of your peers to decide, you use the press to draw attention to your situation if you're being oppressed. We don't live in North Korea where they send you and your family to concentration camps. Our system works, not perfect, but what are the alternatives.
We're alot like russia that way? Whatever, not sure if you mean that is good or bad. The Swiss are all issued fully auto weapons, works for them. English, nope, firearms not allowed for the most part.
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Ok, now your argument is starting a lot to sound like. "Yeah it's unjust, but whatya gonna do?, just fight them in the appropriate channels."
Yeah, a jury of my peers...we'd need a time travel machine for that. Back to a time when most people didn't have bastard children and an exagerated sense of entitlement
Our system works, not perfect, but what are the alternatives.
First it doesn't work. Unless you're someone who is comfortable living on your knees and defering all sense of responsibility onto a parental government. As for an alternative, how about the constitution?
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I think we might be hijacking this thread, but if nobody cares I'm ok with the subject.
Ok, now your argument is starting a lot to sound like. "Yeah it's unjust, but whatya gonna do?,
Nope, afraid it doesn't sound at all like that. Maybe it does to you, but I'm beggining to wonder if I'm writing back and forth to someone missing a few marbles.
Unjust system? People with sense of entitlement? Time machine (I guess ur something special then)? Living on your knees and controlling governement?
I hardly know where to begin, suffice to say I shouldn't even bother. Certainly has all the undertones of the doom and gloom, conspiracy theory rejectionist.
Guess it's a matter of perception. I can't speak for what you have seen in your life. Mine has been opportunity, hard work and reward. I view law as protection from anarchy and thuggery, I see our country and system as fair and equitable. I thank god that I was lucky enough to be born here instead of say N Korea or Darfur.
Why is do you suppose people from all over the world want to come here? How is if our system is so moraly corrupt and reprehensible that we have contributed so much to humanity in terms of science, medicine, literature, art, law...the list goes on.
kookoo, kookoo...
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Which is more important for you? Pride or learning? You've typed a lot to help rationalize your position of supporting a government agency that lied so that it could use violence againts it's supposed bosses. Thank you for providing a blackboard.
BTW, in your attempted ad hominem you mispelled cuckoo.
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Yeah, a jury of my peers...we'd need a time travel machine for that. Back to a time when most people didn't have bastard children and an exagerated sense of entitlement
yeah, and how many did your hero Koresh father?
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WOOOTTTTT
A whirling Texas purse fight. Be careful boys those are huge frikken Texan purses you are slinging about.
lol
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Originally posted by DREDger
Yeah, a jury of my peers...we'd need a time travel machine for that. Back to a time when most people didn't have bastard children and an exagerated sense of entitlement
yeah, and how many did your hero Koresh father?
Oh now you're just grasping.
First off he was a preacher, something I could be if I didn't have a concious, hardly my hero. As for how many women he knocked up, that's his own business, at least he provided a home for them.
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A whirling Texas purse fight. Be careful boys those are huge frikken Texan purses you are slinging about.
:rofl
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DREDger, You are welcome to highjack it. I messed up on the way I presented it anyway. :cool:
FIGHT, FIGHT, I wanna see a FIGHT!
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(http://www.expats.cz/images-articles/us-tax-deadline.pjpeg)
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Originally posted by Suave
Ok, now your argument is starting a lot to sound like. "Yeah it's unjust, but whatya gonna do?, just fight them in the appropriate channels."
Yeah, a jury of my peers...we'd need a time travel machine for that. Back to a time when most people didn't have bastard children and an exagerated sense of entitlement
First it doesn't work. Unless you're someone who is comfortable living on your knees and defering all sense of responsibility onto a parental government. As for an alternative, how about the constitution?
HELP! I'm being oppressed!
:rofl
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You were doing real well there laser until you got to this:
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Socialism is possibly the most mis-defined word in human history, especially recently. Socialism is the thought that you have the right to legislate over other people's personal choices. And there's a lot more to it then you think. I.E. Gay Marriage Ban, Fuel Efficient Cars, gun control, state religions, no big companies...
What you're describing can be part of Socialism but that's it. Socialism defined by anti-capitalism and is anti-personal property. It was the "worker's" control of the means of production and, at it's core, redistribution of wealth. In reality the government owns the means of production in the "people's" name and is in charge of the "people's" welfare. The core principles of socialism are far too evident in the US today even though the fundamentals of socialism have been proven to be failures.
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Socialism isn't a form of government. It's a tool to get to totalitarianism / communism.
Just because it has been misused so many times doesn't change the real definition of socialism.
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HELP! I'm being oppressed!
For real, take off the tinfoil hat they can't read your thoughts. I think Hollywood spawned this 'conspiracy anti-government' mentality.
Harmless I suppose, as long as it's short of armed insurrection. Makes things more melodramatic...rather than the humdrum real life.
"I'm only paranoid because everyone is out to get me"--Frank Burns
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Originally posted by Mace2004
Socialism defined by anti-capitalism and is anti-personal property. It was the "worker's" control of the means of production and, at it's core, redistribution of wealth. In reality the government owns the means of production in the "people's" name and is in charge of the "people's" welfare. The core principles of socialism are far too evident in the US today even though the fundamentals of socialism have been proven to be failures.
No, that's Communism. I live in a country considered Socialist, and the government or state or law is not "anti-Capitalism", and most definitely not "anti-personal property".
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Originally posted by Xargos
Communism
In a communist country, the government owns all businesses and farms and provides its people's healthcare, education and welfare.
You mistake "Communism" for Soviet Socialism.
Soviet economics was based on collectively owned agricultural enterprises, that were not in any way government controlled.
Key concept: "provides its people's healthcare, education and welfare". All the rest is unimportant.
Funny, but many people who lived here in Soviet times don't understand it. You could pretty well work for yourself (self-employment), earn as much as your health allows, and buy anything for market prices. OTOH if you were a looser - you stick to 120 rubles monthly and stand in a line for cheap sausage.
I was a university student and earned more then most of the above mentioned loosers, 70 rubles scolarship plus 55 rubles half-time programmer. Plus occasional jobs. I didn't go to Student Construction Squads in summer, people earned no less then 3000 rubles there - I went hiking instead.
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Soviet economics was based on collectively owned agricultural enterprises, that were not in any way government controlled.
Who do you think controls the collective?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Who do you think controls the collective?
Collective itself. Otherwise how could it happen that a collective farmer from Ukraine earned as much as my Father, an Engineering corps colonel, doctor of science and professor?
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Boroda, the Soviet Ruble was for most of the '70s and '80s about the same value as the US Dollar. 97 kopecks in 1985. The 120 Rubles most of your citizens got per month is less than my daily income, and I'm not well off at all. Those 3000 Rubles you mentioned is less than half my monthly salary.
The reason your father earned less than the farmer is because he was grossly underpaid for his work, just like every other Soviet citizen. I'm afraid the Soviet Union was a workers paradise in name only.
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Originally posted by Viking
Boroda, the Soviet Ruble was for most of the '70s and '80s about the same value as the US Dollar. 97 kopecks in 1985. The 120 Rubles most of your citizens got per month is less than my daily income, and I'm not well off at all. Those 3000 Rubles you mentioned is less than half my monthly salary.
The reason your father earned less than the farmer is because he was grossly underpaid for his work, just like every other Soviet citizen. I'm afraid the Soviet Union was a workers paradise in name only.
It wasn't a Workers paradise in any way. Worker got no more then 18% of his earnings in cash.
Why? Because over 2/3 of the industry worked on defence. If only there was a 50% chance of attacking USSR without total nuclear resoponse - all Soviet cities could be burnt down, immediately. So it goes :( Price for staying alive. No offences please, I understand that this stick has two ends :(
Then, we got free healthcare of the quality that you can only imagine, free education, free accomodation (me and my Father own flats that are totally worth about $750K now market price, or maybe more).
No doubt that a privately working person got more then a govt employee.
For 120 rubles you could live pretty well and save money. Food and basic consumer goods costed next to nothing, while "luxury" like tape-recorders or colour TVs were quite expensive. Hard to explain. I grew up in an "upper-middle class" family according to Western standards, but I got my first cassete recorder when I was 13, and I earned half of the money myself working in a school summer labour camp (it was fun, I was a carpenter assistant).
As I said many times before: not "good" or "bad". Different. See quote from Chairman Mao in my signature.
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Yes I can only imagine the horrors of Soviet healthcare. Face it, you couldn't make the guns and a good living at the same time like the Americans did. You couldn't do it because Communism, especially Stalinism is the most inefficient economic system devised by mankind … Ever. This is why it's going to take generations to build a new and prosperous Russia from 80 years of neglect and mismanagement. Just like it's going to take generations for the otherwise industrious Germans to get eastern Germany up to the same standard of living as the western parts of the country.
I know you believe what you say Boroda, and I really don't what to offend you, but I'm afraid you're deluding yourself if you think going back to the old ways is the right thing for Russia.
And btw. Chairman Mao was thinking of 12 year-old girls when he said that. ;)
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Originally posted by Viking
Yes I can only imagine the horrors of Soviet healthcare. Face it, you couldn't make the guns and a good living at the same time like the Americans did. You couldn't do it because Communism, especially Stalinism is the most inefficient economic system devised by mankind … Ever. This is why it's going to take generations to build a new and prosperous Russia from 80 years of neglect and mismanagement. Just like it's going to take generations for the otherwise industrious Germans to get eastern Germany up to the same standard of living as the western parts of the country.
I know you believe what you say Boroda, and I really don't what to offend you, but I'm afraid you're deluding yourself if you think going back to the old ways is the right thing for Russia.
And btw. Chairman Mao was thinking of 12 year-old girls when he said that. ;)
LOL looks like I am more tolerant and democratic then you ^D
What you call "Communism", that in fact is Soviet Socialism, especially Stalinism, was the most effective economical system ever invented. No other nation could or ever will do the same thing: having the industrial part of the country captured by the insanely murderous enemy - relocate and rebuild what was left and win a total war with the whole Western Europe, 170 million vs 500 million.
Face it. We are still alive and kicking, regardless to "sold" leadership and all the world dreaming of burying us for being different.
Interesting thought: Europe wa "united" two times before, now it's a third attempt. Previous two times Russians had to come and solve the problem...
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Heh, do what you want with your country Boroda. It is yours not mine. But become a threat to the world again and we'll let 6 million Germans kill 20 million of you again. ;)
Btw, the whole European Union is little more than 300 million, and back in WWII is was a fraction of that. America was about 50 million people back then, and now they are 280 million.
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***pulls up a chair, pops a beer...this oughta be good. *Slurp*
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I'm sorry Diablo, but I'm going to bed in a moment, and I think Boroda is in the near future too. Unless he just got up. It's early morning in this part of the world.
But by all means, enjoy the beer! ;)
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Well, shoot.
Guess we'll have to get a continuation of, oh, a really odd version of the continuation war...say, continuation war III?
:aok
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This is the O'Club ... you have to add a LOT more Roman numerals. ;)
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Doh. Yeah, shoulda thought of that.
MCMLXXXIV? (had to go look at the Van Halen album cover, heh)
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Originally posted by Viking
Heh, do what you want with your country Boroda. It is yours not mine. But become a threat to the world again and we'll let 6 million Germans kill 20 million of you again. ;)
Oh thanks.
For now I see only one threat to the world, and it's not Russia. If you seriously want to leave us alone - it's what Russia/USSR wants for centuries, but, unfortunately, your Western governments probably just can't help themselves. Like now, building missile bases in CzR and Poland.
Originally posted by Viking
Btw, the whole European Union is little more than 300 million, and back in WWII is was a fraction of that. America was about 50 million people back then, and now they are 280 million.
Really? LOL!
Go read something, even Wikipedia may help :D
And take a note: "you" ain't going to "let" anyone kill us. Get real. If you afford such suggestions - then prepare for an answer. So far no visitors went away unsatisfied, we are a country of traditions and unwritten justice. "High quality Western scrap metal sales since 1240". Or maybe earlier, when Oleg nailed his shield to the gates of Constantinopolis, as an answer to ancient "civilisators"?
We have a good saying: go teach Father to have sex, Understand?
/*hehe looks like i am a little bit off the rocker, sorry, gentlemen*/
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Lol, yeah that's more like it Diablo. Anyways, got to go, see you on the flip side.
Good night. And good night to Boroda as well; may the Angels of Socialism descend from the Great Proletariat in the sky and watch over you. ;)
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Originally posted by Viking
Lol, yeah that's more like it Diablo. Anyways, got to go, see you on the flip side.
Good night. And good night to Boroda as well; may the Angels of Socialism descend from the Great Proletariat in the sky and watch over you. ;)
Thanks, and may the Invisible Hand of the Market hug You while You are sleeping! :D
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Originally posted by Boroda
You mistake "Communism" for Soviet Socialism.
Soviet economics was based on collectively owned agricultural enterprises, that were not in any way government controlled.
Key concept: "provides its people's healthcare, education and welfare". All the rest is unimportant.
Funny, but many people who lived here in Soviet times don't understand it. You could pretty well work for yourself (self-employment), earn as much as your health allows, and buy anything for market prices. OTOH if you were a looser - you stick to 120 rubles monthly and stand in a line for cheap sausage.
I was a university student and earned more then most of the above mentioned loosers, 70 rubles scolarship plus 55 rubles half-time programmer. Plus occasional jobs. I didn't go to Student Construction Squads in summer, people earned no less then 3000 rubles there - I went hiking instead.
Interesting stuff Boroda. Just out of curiosity though what time frame are you talking about when this was happening? Was this after reforms started or before? In all honesty, I'm not surprised that there was capitalism going on, even during the height of Stalin's reign, it's a pretty natural state of affairs and one of the main reasons "true" communism will never be possible.
Regarding missile sites being built in the CzR and Poland they are defensive and placed to protect Europe from missiles launched from the Middle East. Only a fool would ignore the threat posed by a regime like Iran's. Also, if the USSR was such a brotherly and happy place with everyone enjoying a wonderful life due to the benefits of Socialism....ah....why haven't any of your old "partners" stayed by Russia's side?
A couple of other questions though...what exactly makes you think the US is a threat? I mean this seriously. At no time has the US ever invaded or attacked Russia or the USSR. If I remember correctly, and I do, it was the USSR that threated to wipe the US off the face of the map. While there were certainly some in the US that advocated attacking the USSR, they were few and far between. As a matter of fact there were, and still are, far more apologists for the USSR and Socialism then were ever advocating it's complete destruction. The very fact that we have had freedom of speech and a free press guaranteed that you would have heard some of this but it was never US policy. US policy was "containment" to prevent the spread of your system. As far as that's concerned, can you name any former client state of the USSR that continued in it's footsteps and has been successful...or...for that matter was even able to sustain itself without totalitarianism? Can you name a single part of the USSR or it's client states that had a problem with too many people wanting to immigrate to them as opposed to run away from them? No, you can't.
Another question, how is it you arrive at your conclusion that Soviet Socialism was the most effective economic system ever created? Seriously, "most effective" by what measure? Production? Gross National Product? Gross Domestic Product? Wealth per capita? The fact that the USSR relocated so much of it's industrial capability during the war is a reflection of several things. 1) it didn't have much industrial capability to relocate in the first place and 2) it was done by the labor of the citizens. It had nothing to do with the economy. Also, by that measure Germany was probably as successful. Up until the last year of the war German war production incresed every year and the German's had to relocate much of their vital production capability undergound due to US and Britsh bombing.
By all measures of resources and manpower the USSR should have had an enormous advantage. It had absolute control over it's own resources and almost no need for importing any natural resources...so....why did this "most effective ecoomic system ever created" fail? The USSR lost the Cold War specifically because it couldn't compete economically and that pretty much puts to rest any idea that it's economy was anything else but the equivalent of a third world country.