Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: FiLtH on February 08, 2007, 10:04:33 AM
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After posting a joke of a reply to another thread, I thought of something referring to base downtimes. As it is now, the base structures pop back up in what, 10 minutes? If you run a mission to bomb a base/town, you dont have time to rtb before the base re-builds.
People end up augering for goons and it kinda gets cheezy. What I was thinking was to have a "switch" in the town. This switch would be triggered if every building in town went down frome fresh to flat, within 20 seconds. This would mean a tight, plannned, accurate bomb mission would have to do this. To reward this planning and execution, the switch would change that bases' structure rebuild time to 20 minute. Any hanger destroyed during this period would take 20 minutes to reappear.
This would allow for the bomber pilot to rtb, and have a couple of minutes to plan a follow up strike or capture. I think this would make people think that to go out and bomb, its the only way to do it. The defense would have to watch for and defend against them, escort would fall into place. It would get the fight off the deck and in the heavens where it belongs.
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Well, Thats an intresting idea. Thing is if that were put in the game. Then takeing bases would be just as easy if not easyer than before all the changes with ack and bases you cannot take. It would cause map resets to be really easy. Thats something I think Hitech wants to slow down.
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Alternately change the whole rebuild model so that you could destroy partially rebuilt objects................
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? Town buildings stay down for 45 mins already.
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Originally posted by Virage
? Town buildings stay down for 45 mins already.
I think he was talking about hangers and such on the base itself, not the buildings in the town.
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Ya the base not the town.
What Im saying is not for making bases easier to take, as much as making a reason to make those efforts actual organized missions, and get away from the lone bomber, one after the other. It would work as it does now, unless someone put a mission together and dropped the town in one pass. I think it would add a little needed depth.
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You can just ask for 1 more man in C-47 to fly together with bombers.
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Am I correct in my understanding of this that you want to be able to keep the field out of commission simply by blowing up the town in short order?
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Don't take this the wrong way Flith ...
but it appears that you are asking for this so that one person alone can ravage a town ... rtb ... up a goon for the capture knowing that all the buildings will still be down
or ...
take just a bunch of bombers and 1 or 2 goons who stay outside the active area (maybe land). All the bombers get wacked and when the defense is lulled into thinking that there is no return attack and move on to another area ... the goons cruise in and get the capture.
I don't think that this would be good for gameplay.
If people want a capture, then they need to have a tight and well planned mission or a group of flyers, all on the same page, with a goon or goons waiting for the "GO" signal.
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:huh :rofl :huh
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I understand what he's getting at here and I think it's an interesting idea.
IF a town is 100% up, once the first building is detroyed a timer starts. IF the town is destroyed 100% within a specified time then damage for the base last twice as long at that point. A single bomber formation couldn't do the job in the time alloted so a coordinated attack would be required.
I don't think it would make resets easier at all, what with the new requirments to posses 40% of the enemy's bases in addition to 90% of your own original bases.
It would however reward those people that can plan and execute a well timed and coordinated mission.
I kinda like this idea.
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get some strat bombing done to the countries factories within that zone.... town will stay down almost the full 45minutes then
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Originally posted by Anyone
get some strat bombing done to the countries factories within that zone.... town will stay down almost the full 45minutes then
I thought the town (as well as hangers) stayed down for their alotted time no matter what the state of the strats are. This includes field resupplies. It's the downtime of strat (troops, supplies, ord, etc) that is affected by resupplying.
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Originally posted by Donzo
I thought the town (as well as hangers) stayed down for their alotted time no matter what the state of the strats are. This includes field resupplies. It's the downtime of strat (troops, supplies, ord, etc) that is affected by resupplying.
the town is set to stay down 45minutes, however each train / convoy of supplys will reduce that by 30minutes (if the zones city is at 100%)
hangers i think are fixed at 10minutes.
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Originally posted by Anyone
the town is set to stay down 45minutes, however each train / convoy of supplys will reduce that by 30minutes (if the zones city is at 100%)
hangers i think are fixed at 10minutes.
No. Town buildings cannot be resupplied. Their down time is 45 minutes. What you are talking about are the city buildings found in a city strat, not a town at a base.
And hangers are fixed at 15 minutes.
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oops i stand corrected! :o
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Thank you Hornet you understand fully. It has nothing to do with trying to make capture easier, and everything to do with encouraging coodinated missions, and steering away from the spastic gameplay.
I understand that some of you may misunderstand what Im trying to say. The game would continue to play as it is now, but, on those odd occasions when a group wanted to try for a mission, and feel it had a goal to achieve, they could try it.
The worst thing that could happen, is more people would want to join in these types of missions. That means less 3 man land grabs, fighting for bases where the enemy isnt, and more ww2, higher altitude bomber intercept/escort being done.
I guess, its sort of hoping to add a sense of urgency for the interceptors, knowing if the buffs get through, the base (hangers are down too) would be shut down a full 20 minutes.
Slapshot I know what you are saying, but its that frantic style of get em in conga line stuff I dont like. Perhaps if a timer was tripped you could get
SYSTEM: ALERT A35 TOWN DESTROYED
so folks could head there to defend.
We all have our peeves, the pace the way its played is mine. Maybe Im just gettin old. :)
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first off players i AH seem to barely understand the whole new system for resets, let alone tons of other tings and how they really work in AH. heck I was explaining the way the strat system actually works to someone who has played for years, they never knew exactly how it worked.
now you want to add another possibly confusing element into how a base is captured? and in the same time make sure that the "fight" is delayed even longer for people who just want to dogfight by making hangars stay down longer?
no thanks.
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Mustaine its not all that complicated. AND I have no clue how the strat stuff works either, so you aint alone.
As for the guys who just want to dogfight...Im one of em. But I do like missions with meaning that provide combat more resembling a ww2 bomber run. How do you do it? Give them a goal to achieve. The rest falls into place. I know I'd rather intercept a formation, than constantly picking at lone 3 plane sorties at low alt.
Plus, to do this would require alot of people. Its not like 20 bases are being leveled all at the same time. Just once in awhile it could be done if they wanted to put the effort into it. Kind of melding the MA with the way an event is played.
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now don't get me wrong I understand the premise behind your idea, but it sounds to me like what "Combat Tour" is attempting to provide. mission-based and team goals.
I just don't think something like that belongs in the general MA with the emphasis on a basic "free-for-all" for lack of a better definition.
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Reward the horde, and punish the underdog. Horrible idea.
No thank you.
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Well some of you are too dead set against anything different to give it a thought. Thats ok. If all you want to do is swirl around on the deck, and you are happy with that part of the game, fine. There are other players that like something different.
We all are underdogs at some point during the day. Im willing to bet the nay sayers would be perfectly content to have 3 bases on a map and just fight/die/up/fight/rtb/up till the cows came home. Those players shouldnt be overly concerned with a minor, but meaningful change for those that enjoy more than just that. They have another arena they can goto to do just that.
The reason they dont just go to the dueling arena is because they want to be part of the main game. Remember, other players also want to be part of that main game too. To expect them to bomb useless targets, or to be ridiculed for wanting to play their game is inconsiderate. Most people want to be in the MA because thats where the action is. Although the AvA is a blast, there are rarely enough in there.
Lets face it, we want to be in the MA in fighters because there are more people to kill, and we enjoy doing it, being seen by other people, feeling like a hero when we land a bunch of kills. We like to blow stuff up in the MA because we know it affects
the enemy, and we like them to be mad enough to come try to shoot us down. Thats a good competitive spirit. Now if we could just do something that might get it a little more organized once in awhile...once in awhile, and enjoy the moments when it plays out like an FSO or event, but its still in the MA, where the folks still see your name in lights, and the bomb missions could have a purpose.
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I don't know Flith ...
It seems as tho this idea would promote and reward spastic gameplay.
With this, they can knock the town down, lolly-gag over the airfield and putting on a solid vulch for the length of time you specified without fear of the town starting to re-pop buildings, while someone leisurely sips their favorite alcoholic beverage and flys a C-47 for the capture without any sense of urgency.
At least now, when the town goes down, the vulchers eventually have to pull off their station and try to destroy any buildings that have popped while the pilot of the C-47, with a sense of urgency, prays that the buildings won't pop while the troops are floating down to terra firma.
If someone gets a mission together or a bunch of guys decide collectively to try for a capture and the attack is coordinated with the right hardware and executed correctly ... then there is no need to worry about how long the town will be down ... they should take it in a matter of minutes.
I have flown a few mission with DREDger lately, and when flying in his missions, I am reminded of when I flew with the MAW. The correct hardware is availabke in the mission, all hardware is assigned specific targets, and the timing of the attack with the arrival of the goon(s) is almost simultaneous. This is a recipe for a successful attack ... if it doesn't work, then it's just wasn't supposed to be ... better try next time.
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Filth, you are taking it too personally...
what I said about this sounding like something for CT is correct IMHO, it's not against you personally.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
I don't know Flith ...
With this, they can knock the town down, lolly-gag over the airfield and putting on a solid vulch for the length of time you specified without fear of the town starting to re-pop buildings, while someone leisurely sips their favorite alcoholic beverage and flys a C-47 for the capture without any sense of urgency.
He didn't say anything about extending the time town buildings are down, just structures on the base.
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Slapshot's got it right,
A well co-ordinated attack involving Buffs, fighters and a couple of goons will 8 times out of ten capture the base if people have the discipline to stick to their tasks.
Problem is the attacks are rarely well co-ordinated and fighter jocks are usually more interested in fighting other planes that taking down any building missed by the buffs, giving the defenders enough time to hunt down the goons.
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Nah Mustaine its cool. I just get a lil bent outta shape when people jump at shooting something down and assuming stuff without fully getting what Im saying.
Slap I understand. The way the game is now appeals to alot of players. Its just a tad 2 dimentional for me sometimes. Most times Im happy with it, but wish it had a lil more depth.
The main problem seems to make a game where bombers are involved. They are meant to destroy stuff. To ruin someones day. But theres the problem. Nobody wants their day ruined :)
It was just a suggestion.
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I'm not sure I understand what you're original concept is, Filth. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're asking that the base stays down longer so a very small group (1 to 3) of pilots can bomb and capture?
I'm against it if that's what you meant.
I'm all for planning and coordination. I've been on blitzkreig raids that took all of a minute and 30 seconds from the first shot to the troops entering the map room with a grand total of 15 pilots and nothing on the base was destroyed. I've been on raids that took 5 to 10 minutes using a cv. And I've been on poorly planned and poorly executed raids that started and was still going on hours later, using every pilot anyone could dredge up and the loss of two or three cv's.
The key is planning all of the tools and equiptment are there. All you need is an effective leader, disciplined pilots and timing. There are a few "generals" that have the ability to whip the pilots into action, like DREDger and ghi (to just name a few).
I personally think of base capture as a "big thing". If three pilots can pull it off with the standards set today, then the base deserved capture, otherwise, I don't think it should be possible.
But that is only my humble opinion. Take it or leave it as you wish.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
This would mean a tight, plannned, accurate bomb mission would have to do this.
Ok good idea but...what if we do a JABO\ 110 Sweep and swarm the town with guns? A doubt a town can be taken in 20 seconds with guns. Plus what if a Buff misses a building, they have 20 sec. to go around, re-cal, and drop again?
Just my $.2 :D
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Happy New Year everyone
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Tex, it would require a bunch of people, 3 wouldnt do it. Probably 5-6 on the town, and as many as it would take to kill the hangers on the base from the second the town fell to get the full 20 minutes. Say the town is successfully dropped within 20 secs...all buildings dead from fresh (wouldnt count if other bldgs down from a previous strike) to flat . From that instance the 20 minute clock starts. If a hanger goes down 1 minute later, it will remain down 19 minutes. If it falls 9 minutes later it stays down 11 minutes. After that the bonus time is gone and it would be the standard 10 mins.
CaptJoe, as long as enuff jabos hit all at once to ensure the all down within 20 secs, it could work. Miss one and the 20 secs go by, and its no good.
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But Filth, it can be done without taking down hangers or anything else on the base. It's all in the planning and execution.
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Ya but that usually means rushing in on the deck. Swarming a base, generally one that nothing is happening at. Then when that gets too tough, moving to another base. Be nice to get the fight higher, and actually fight.
Ive said about I can on this.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
SYSTEM: ALERT A35 TOWN DESTROYED
Well, it's been years since I last talked to HT about it (prior to flashing towns and fields). But, I do know that at that time, he was not in favor of adding in more traffic to the text buffer.