Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Movie on February 08, 2007, 03:59:27 PM
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what would be some appropriate moves to do in a zeke besides TnB?
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CnB, DnB, anything that puts the emphasis on the B part. :D
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thx for your input
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Really theres not much to do in Zekes besides try to sucker someone into a turnfight. It can't climb away from most planes after the EW set (though it does zoom well), its controls lock up at relatively low speeds in a dive (and pulling out too hard can break a wing), and its definitely not fast enough to run down anyone from low 6 or to run away when you lose the advantage.
Can't even really HO in it, its so fragile that a few hits will tear off a wing or knock out the engine (or start a fire, or kill the pilot...) I got 3 or 4 A6M2s in a P-38G yesterday because I kept suckering them into trying to dive with me and then I could just pull up and leave them miles behind. They were just as dead trying to loop fight or HO, as soon as they showed their belly they were either wingless or on fire (or exploded).
You need to really have a good combination of e-management, SA, marksmanship, and luck to consistently do well in a Zero. No two fights are the same, you can mop the floor with it one flight and get your oscar handed to you on the next 5.
My best advice is to just stick with it exclusively until you feel comfortable with it, the only way to really master any plane in here. Everyone flies every plane different. Plus you have to make sure you can enter a fight in control and pick your battles. Very small margin for error in that rice-paper kite.
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well theres a difference noob pilots will take the bait but exp. pilots wont
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There's really not much else you can do. Just about every fighter that entered service after 1943 will out-everything the Zeke except in low-speed turn and combustibility.
I love watching Zekes try to hang with my F4U in the zoom. :D
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Guy I was fighting was by no means a newb, but when you get into the fight and start going for it without paying attention, you can get suckered into a losing battle very quickly. Thats what we mean by "controlling the fight". Ask any of the guys who sucker spixteens and Las into dogfighting an A-20 or Ju-88 and hand them their butts all night long. Or ask the 109 and P-38 drivers who sucker the better turning planes into vertical fight and blow them out of the sky with impunity. Happens all the time, and often to vets who should know better.
Its all knowing your aircraft and knowing what works for you, and forcing the other guy to dance to your tune. Most of the sticks in here will not disengage no matter how out of control the situation gets, it comes from the fact that we're not fighting for our lives. You have to take control and cause the other guy to do something stupid.
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which zero would be better for combat in the matter of TnB?
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A6M2 has a tighter turn radius than the A6M5. But as the A6M5 will already outperform almost every other fighter in a pure turning contest, the increased speed, climb rate, acceleration, guns lethality and firing time make it usually the better choice for fighting the enemy.
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thx lusche
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Originally posted by Lusche
A6M2 has a tighter turn radius than the A6M5. But as the A6M5 will already outperform almost every other fighter in a pure turning contest, the increased speed, climb rate, acceleration, guns lethality and firing time make it usually the better choice for fighting the enemy.
That's pretty misleading, since the A6M5 isn't much faster than the A6M2, nor does the smidge of extra armor really help. The guns aren't much better, either. It has a lot of added weight that kills its low-speed combat lethality, and I've suckered A6M5s into low-speed turn fights countless times while flying an A6M2, and I rarely lose in that situation.
If you really apply yourself to the A6M2 Zero, you'll be hell on wings. It just takes a lot of patience, marksmanship, and a quick brain so you won't get suckered into an opponent's tricks.
Remember: never dive with a P-38 when flying the Zero. Fake a dive for about 500 feet, and then even out. You'll gain some extra speed, and if the P-38 happens to pull up (which they have most of the time in my experience), you've got a huge advantage.
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Um, the A6M5 is significantly faster and the guns are much, much better. Same cannon as on the N1K2-J instead of the crappy Okerlion based guns like on the Bf109E.
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Originally posted by Fruda
and I've suckered A6M5s into low-speed turn fights countless times while flying an A6M2, and I rarely lose in that situation.
This is more or less what I was stating. The A6M5 is only 2nd best turner, so the M2 will outturn a M5. But M2s are rare in MW/LW for a (reason), so you still will be able to outturn any other fighter you encounter.
And the weapon set is MUCH better in M5, you have double the amount of cannon ammo and a better trajectory. Add to that a gain in climb rate of about 500ft/min (almost 25% better). The A5M also accelerates 150-200 about 2.5 seconds faster. All these factors are very important in combat. The factor that you are being able beat the M5 in a M2 doesn't make the M2 a better plane...
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I wish we have the clipped wing A6M3. This version can roll and turn well at the same time. Think of this as the early war SPIT16.
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Originally posted by 1K3
Think of this as the early war SPIT16.
This is good WHY?!? :huh
Talk about torpedoing yourself... :O
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Originally posted by Serenity
This is good WHY?!? :huh
Talk about torpedoing yourself... :O
My definition of early war would be 1942 to 1943 in USA's point of view
Even at this time frame US planes overwhelmingly outperforms the A6M2 that it's not even a competetion. You see we have an "early war" A6M2 already going up against P-38G, F4U1, F6F etc etc.
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Originally posted by Serenity
This is good WHY?!? :huh
Talk about torpedoing yourself... :O
Oh by the way, are you the same guy who swore would never ever fly *jap* planes due to *political reasons* yet he flies *nazi* planes? What a big time HYPOCRITE! You can twist this however you want by saying the "*nazis* was least evil compare to *japs*, and *japs* cooked and ate their enemies while the *nazis* gassed the undesired ethnic groups because it's less cruel than riddling them with machine gun bullets. Again, you can twist this however you want but you're still marked and branded for being a HYPOCRITE (TM)
:)
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Originally posted by 1K3
Oh by the way, are you the same guy who swore would never ever fly *jap* planes due to *political reasons* yet he flies *nazi* planes? What a big time HYPOCRITE! You can twist this however you want by saying the "*nazis* was least evil compare to *japs*, and *japs* cooked and ate their enemies while the *nazis* gassed the undesired ethnic groups because it's less cruel than riddling them with machine gun bullets. Again, you can twist this however you want but you're still marked and branded for being a HYPOCRITE (TM)
:)
Enjoy the last line of my signature. And by the way, im not contesting the addition of another Originally posted by 1K3 *jap*
im contesting the addition of another plane similar to the Spitfire mk XVI. We dont need any more UFOs.
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Oh, by the way. Ive still only ever flown a
Originally posted by 1K3
*jap*
plane twice. Once for the scenario a while back, and once, as a favor, I flew a 'Kate' off of a CV to sink another CV.
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The A6m's are actually very capable birds. The problem is that you need excellent SA to go with them. They simply can NOT take punishment. A6m's work very well for base defense or pure furballing fun. Just keep a clear eye open as to whats about to zoom in on you.
A6m paired with a faster bird becomes even more deadly.
Now when you surprise an enemy, he can't turn because the A6m will kill him, and he can't run because of the fast wingman. In short he's stuck between a rock & a hard place.
If your into long sorties, landing kills, killing bombers, A6m may not be for you.
But if your into instant fun via a big furball, don't sell them short. Also IMO nothing does the "hide in the CV ack while grabbing for alt" game quite as well as the A6m's.
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90% of the MA can be suckered into a turn fight against a zero.
I do it all the time.
Some people.. who I wont name in their 38's of death have handed me my perpetiual rump on a dish (AK AK you p38 monster) and who can forget (Von Holtz thank God hes a rook now)
Most of the time the zero is very effective if flown well... In midwar its a monster only thing that is ever an issue to me seems to be poney B's (but only when flown by luche whos not dumb enough to get in a slugging match with me :) .)
One unknown about the late model zero is its climb and hang ability.. this often allows me to win 1vs1 in superior powered aircraft.. they are surprised that a cooalt zeke will stay on them for as long as it does.. by the time they reach top of arch im 500 off and in easy gun range.
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I must confess that I am also a "Zeke Geek".
The plane is amazing!
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I fail to see how a clipped wing zeke would be a "UFO" or similar to a spixteen except for the clipped wingtips. Besides, why do you care? You don't fly them anyway. If you fly German/American planes and you're dying 1 on 1 vs A6Ms you're doing something wrong. Granted, a good stick in a Zero can be hard to bring down but if you die it's because you made a mistake not because of the uberness of the plane.
On an historical note, during the war allied pilots reported the A6M performing "impossible" climbing and turning manuevers. If virtual pilots whine about it being a UFO that tells me that HTC got it pretty close to right.
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Originally posted by Saxman
There's really not much else you can do. Just about every fighter that entered service after 1943 will out-everything the Zeke except in low-speed turn and combustibility.
I love watching Zekes try to hang with my F4U in the zoom. :D
Man I miss flying!
I will alternate between the hog (birdcage still is my fav ride) and the zeke. Both require lots of time in the seat, and can be a joy to fly, and a pure nightmare if you fail to pay good attention to your E states, and environment.
I am more alert in these twoplanes than any other in the AH planeset.
*note*
They have spit 16's now? goodness I've been gone too long!
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Originally posted by DblTrubl
I fail to see how a clipped wing zeke would be a "UFO" or similar to a spixteen except for the clipped wingtips. Besides, why do you care? You don't fly them anyway. If you fly German/American planes and you're dying 1 on 1 vs A6Ms you're doing something wrong. Granted, a good stick in a Zero can be hard to bring down but if you die it's because you made a mistake not because of the uberness of the plane.
On an historical note, during the war allied pilots reported the A6M performing "impossible" climbing and turning manuevers. If virtual pilots whine about it being a UFO that tells me that HTC got it pretty close to right.
Because if a Zeke can catch an Me-262 in a dead sprint, or can hover like a Spixteen, something is WRONG. I dont see the Zero as a threat. But if it turned into a Spixteen, then something would be wrong. And I never compaired it to a Spixteen, whats-his-name did.
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Serenity,
All of the piston engined fighters will catch the 262 in a dead sprint if the starting speed is low enough, even the Hurricane Mk I.
Early jets just had horrible acceleration. Their advantage is that they can keep accelerating at speeds the piston engined fighters cannot due to dropping propellor efficiance as speed climbs. Eventually propellors become, effectively, big, spinning airbrakes on the front of the airplane. But from 150mph there is not a fighter that the Me262 will out sprint.
You seem to base a lot of your complaints on misunderstandings of how things work.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Serenity,
All of the piston engined fighters will catch the 262 in a dead sprint if the starting speed is low enough, even the Hurricane Mk I.
Early jets just had horrible acceleration. Their advantage is that they can keep accelerating at speeds the piston engined fighters cannot due to dropping propellor efficiance as speed climbs. Eventually propellors become, effectively, big, spinning airbrakes on the front of the airplane. But from 150mph there is not a fighter that the Me262 will out sprint.
You seem to base a lot of your complaints on misunderstandings of how things work.
I wasnt STARTING at 150, I was STARTING at 500mph. Care to explain that? The Spixteen also started BELOW me. Again, care to explain that? Im smarter than to get anywhere NEAR an enemy at less than 400mph in a jet.
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Originally posted by Serenity
I wasnt STARTING at 150, I was STARTING at 500mph. Care to explain that? The Spixteen also started BELOW me. Again, care to explain that? Im smarter than to get anywhere NEAR an enemy at less than 400mph in a jet.
Care to show film? Else we dont believe.
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Originally posted by Lusche
Care to show film? Else we dont believe.
I dont keep ANY film that old. Its a waste of bytes. So feel free not to beleive.
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Originally posted by Serenity
I wasnt STARTING at 150, I was STARTING at 500mph. Care to explain that? The Spixteen also started BELOW me. Again, care to explain that? Im smarter than to get anywhere NEAR an enemy at less than 400mph in a jet.
Yes, I can explain it. You are lying.
It is that simple. Take a Spit XVI up and see if you can reach 500mph in it without a long dive. You can't.
Therefore you are lying.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Yes, I can explain it. You are lying.
It is that simple. Take a Spit XVI up and see if you can reach 500mph in it without a long dive. You can't.
Therefore you are lying.
Never gonna happen. Ive yet to fly a Spixteen and im not about to start. Im proud of that record. And yeah, call me a liar. I really dont care. My conflict is not with you but a cartoon plane. But because of things like this im recording all fights with Spiixteens, so when next this thread comes around, Ill have LOTS to show you all.
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lol
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Ohh look teen knowitall at it again.
:D :D
Bronk
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:aok
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Same guy whos requesting "any RAF/ETO SpitV" since we don't have any...
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Originally posted by Treize69
Same guy whos requesting "any RAF/ETO SpitV" since we don't have any...
We have none that ive seen. We have SAAF, RHAF, RAF trops American trops and a purple RAF. I look at the skins of the mk V every time im on hoping one will strike my fancy. There are no RAF ETO Spitfire mk Vs that arent purple.
To bronk:
Its the angry old guy!
:D
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Originally posted by Serenity
Ive yet to fly a Spixteen and im not about to start.
Complaints about how a plane is modeled coming from one who has never flown the plane in question hold absolutely no weight whatsoever. If you truly believe something is inaccurate then do some testing and provide some concrete evidence and historical documentation to back up your claim. The burden of proof is on you to show that HTC is wrong. Players have done so in the past and on the occasions that HTC agreed with their data and methodology changes were made. I doubt it will happen in this case as you don't strike me as the type willing to put in the effort. It's quite simple really...put up or shut up.
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Complaints about how a plane is modeled coming from one who has never flown the plane in question hold absolutely no weight whatsoever. If you truly believe something is inaccurate then do some testing and provide some concrete evidence and historical documentation to back up your claim. The burden of proof is on you to show that HTC is wrong. Players have done so in the past and on the occasions that HTC agreed with their data and methodology changes were made. I doubt it will happen in this case as you don't strike me as the type willing to put in the effort. It's quite simple really...put up or shut up.
Really, if he was someone capable of understanding what you were saying Dbl, he wouldn't been spewing that heap of crap in the first place.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Really, if he was someone capable of understanding what you were saying Dbl, he wouldn't been spewing that heap of crap in the first place.
Wow. Angry. Prozac anyone?
Unless YOU happen to have an RAF-issue handbook on the Spitfire mk XVI there isnt much that can be done in numbers. I cannot argue with the exact numbers, I argue when I watch it defy physics. That is just so incredibly obvious a 2 year old can tell something is wrong. Like I said. Im recording JUST FOR YOU! :aok
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If you won't even fly it to test it you have no grounds to comment. You certainly have no grounds to say the modeling is wrong. Your immature pride that you have never tested it is ridiculous.
I know that HTC will change things if you test it and document the errors in a valid manner. I know this because I have done it in regards to the Mosquito's fuel consumption and it was changed.
I have seen it done in other cases as well, such as the N1K2-J's ammo capacity.
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I hear he was killed by a TBM who was going 200 mph.
Then amazingly caught his 109 at 500 mph and shot it down.
:noid :noid :noid :noid
Guess the TBM model is bogus also.
:D
Bet if I look i can find film.
Bronk
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Unless YOU happen to have an RAF-issue handbook on the Spitfire mk XVI there isnt much that can be done in numbers. I cannot argue with the exact numbers, I argue when I watch it defy physics. That is just so incredibly obvious a 2 year old can tell something is wrong. Like I said. Im recording JUST FOR YOU!
During the last 10 years I've flown Aces High, I've seen zillions of goofballs like you who start blaming the game the moment one's own incompetent and pathetic judgement starts clouding one's concept of reality.
Every time, a totally clueless n00b would barge in, he'd start flaming how the FM is broken. Except, whenever they are confronted with actual evidence they either fizzle out and disappear from the boards, or choose to stall and ignore. He will constantly babble about how he will come up with evidence none of us will be able to refute, and then starts making up zillion new excuses everytime, for why he wasn't able to show us any evidence.
So give us one good reason for us to believe that you're not one of those typical goofballs. Why the *** should we believe you, over some of the other respected AH gamers with a lot of experience and flight expertise, whom we've been flying with for almost 10 years?
Right now, your credibility is as about as potent as Ron Wyatt in bible archaeology.
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Originally posted by Bronk
I hear he was killed by a TBM who was going 200 mph.
Then amazingly caught his 109 at 500 mph and shot it down.
:noid :noid :noid :noid
Guess the TBM model is bogus also.
:D
Bet if I look i can find film.
Bronk
ZOMG!!!1! I was like VROOOM and he was like EEEHHRRRR and I was like PWN3D! and he was like NU UH! And went VRRRRRROOOOOOMMMMM and I was like NNNOOOOO!!!!1!! and he was like TAKKA TAKKA TAKKA TAKKA and my wing was like GONE! ZOMG!!!!1!!
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Well?
We're still waiting for your films.
Considering the rich abundance of Spitfires in the MA it wouldn't seem too difficult to come up with any of those abundant Spits doing the paranormal as you claim.
Or are you gonna disappear from this thread for a week until everybody has forgotten about you, and then bring up the "Spit defies space-time continuum" legend again in some other thread?
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Or are you gonna disappear from this thread for a week until everybody has forgotten about you, and then bring up the "Spit defies space-time continuum" legend again in some other thread?
I'm betting on the above.
Bronk
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He already did in the Spitifres thread in the General forum.
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Originally posted by Serenity
I wasnt STARTING at 150, I was STARTING at 500mph. Care to explain that? The Spixteen also started BELOW me. Again, care to explain that? Im smarter than to get anywhere NEAR an enemy at less than 400mph in a jet.
I can explain it. you are incorrect about what you think happened. You misjudged the other player's relative energy state compared to yours. There is nothing "special" about the Spitfire XVI other than your false perception of what the plane can do.
Next time film it and post the film, otherwise we're gonna call B.S.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Serenity
But because of things like this im recording all fights with Spiixteens, so when next this thread comes around, Ill have LOTS to show you all.
And we'll have lots to laugh at. If you do film those flights and watch them later, you'll feel really silly.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by DblTrubl
Complaints about how a plane is modeled coming from one who has never flown the plane in question hold absolutely no weight whatsoever. If you truly believe something is inaccurate then do some testing and provide some concrete evidence and historical documentation to back up your claim. The burden of proof is on you to show that HTC is wrong. Players have done so in the past and on the occasions that HTC agreed with their data and methodology changes were made. I doubt it will happen in this case as you don't strike me as the type willing to put in the effort. It's quite simple really...put up or shut up.
Dude, he's flown in the backseat of a glider, he's an experten.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Well?
We're still waiting for your films.
Considering the rich abundance of Spitfires in the MA it wouldn't seem too difficult to come up with any of those abundant Spits doing the paranormal as you claim.
Or are you gonna disappear from this thread for a week until everybody has forgotten about you, and then bring up the "Spit defies space-time continuum" legend again in some other thread?
Nope, still right here. Actually, ive really not encountered ANY spixteens recently. That could be explined by my hanging out in the AvA and EWA, but even in the LWs ive not seen really ANY. Its actually quite strange. In fact, its to the point im HUNTING them. But yes, im still here, and im not running off.
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Originally posted by Bronk
I'm betting on the above.
Bronk
I've been the victim of some nasty ACM and upon sending a tell to the pilot, they usually (if they were a true gamer) would briefly share what they did, and if the allowed, and their attidute warranted, what I did wrong).
rarely is the manuever the act of a game hack or FM exploit.
Bronk there was a thread where I mentioned the act of chopping power to below 100, at medium alt. I thought it's a bad move, you disagreed. I couldnt find your response, but I'd like to hear when you would do that.
For my part, I have my own thoughts on when and why...and what next...after doing something like that. I want to hears yours, thanks
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
I've been the victim of some nasty ACM and upon sending a tell to the pilot, they usually (if they were a true gamer) would briefly share what they did, and if the allowed, and their attidute warranted, what I did wrong).
rarely is the manuever the act of a game hack or FM exploit.
Bronk there was a thread where I mentioned the act of chopping power to below 100, at medium alt. I thought it's a bad move, you disagreed. I couldnt find your response, but I'd like to hear when you would do that.
For my part, I have my own thoughts on when and why...and what next...after doing something like that. I want to hears yours, thanks
Erm you mean this.
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Anyone with any time in the seat of a corsair knows that below 20k, 250 IAS in a Co-E Co alt fight is in most cases going to lose that fight.
Nice try, 15k at 250 IAS co e fight in a hog if a far cry from chopping power to below 100, at medium alt.
As I said the hog is a much more capable fighter now. I don't know when the last time you played. I suggest you sub for just one month or just DL the game and try the hog now.
Guys like Sirloin, bluekitty, and god forbid skyrock all do it justice. Especialy at low speed.
So don't try and say I backed out on anything. Cus I posted something similar to this in that thread.
Have a nice day.
Bronk
Edit: Although I'm not anywhere as good as the above pilots in the hog.
I've chopped throttle , crossed controls, and drop gear to force the overshoot.( ended up below 100)
I've managed to kill my share this way.
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Not sure where you thought I said you backed out?
I have not played since late 2005, and am trying to make ends meet to rejoin in 2007.
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It was because of the post you quoted.
Kweassa was wondering when if ever, Serenity was going to respond to the thread.
I was agreeing with his second option.
So by quoting me then saying you didn't get a response to your question.....
well you get the idea.
Sorry for the confusion.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
It was because of the post you quoted.
Kweassa was wondering when if ever, Serenity was going to respond to the thread.
I was agreeing with his second option.
So by quoting me then saying you didn't get a response to your question.....
well you get the idea.
Sorry for the confusion.
Bronk
Yeah, Bronk, heads up: I am in Highschool, with all of the hours of homework that includes, PLUS being in CAP, PLUS in flight training. I dont frequent these boards daily like I used to, so you and Kweasa can feel confident that while you may have to wait a few days for a reply, you WILL get one. The only time I back out of a thread is if it gets way to personal (People bringing ancestry into the argument) or when between my two visits 3 pages are added and I really dont want to sift through all of that.
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Serenity i'm affraid to say the Spit XVI was a truely incredable aircraft . It had a HUGELY powerfull engine with a MASSIVE 5 blade prop . This men tthat even though it couldn't accelerate in a vert climb in deccelerated very slowly an dcoud even "Hang" in the air before a full stall .
The ver short wingspan and thin wing men tthat it could roll quickly and maintain highspeed. it also had good slow speed handling due to the large width to the wing. Low wing loading ment that the wing could tolerate higher G loads.
serenity the germans hated it cos it was a great plane. so mate give it up. please before you get bogged down more and make even more of a fool of ones self.
i have a book called spitfire that is the experiances of men that flew all the spit WWII veriants, all the spit XVI pilots agreed that it was remarkable.
(note the seafire XXII was a spit XVI veriant)
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Originally posted by B3YT
Serenity i'm affraid to say the Spit XVI was a truely incredable aircraft . It had a HUGELY powerfull engine with a MASSIVE 5 blade prop .
Ummm no the Mk XIV had a 5 bladed prop.
Bronk
Edit: Also the spit .21 was almost an entirely new AC.
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ah right on the prop but the seafire had a difrent number system hence the SEAfire XXII was a reworked spit XVI .
(mumbles thought i saw a spit XVI with the 5 blade never mind)
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Originally posted by B3YT
ah right on the prop but the seafire had a difrent number system hence the SEAfire XXII was a reworked spit XVI .
(mumbles thought i saw a spit XVI with the 5 blade never mind)
False.
The Seafire Mk III was the final Merlin engined Seafire and it enters service before the Spitfire Mk XVI. Thus it is definately not a Spitfire Mk XVI derivitive.
The first Griffon Seafire was the Mk XV.
All Seafires from the Mk III on are not derivitives of Spitfires, but purpose built Seafires with folding wings, strengthend structures and navalized equipment.
And lastly, the Roman numerals are abandoned at Mk XX. The aircraft with higher mark numbers are the Spitfire Mk 21, Spitfire Mk 22, Spitfire Mk 24, Seafire Mk 46 and Seafire Mk 47.
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right now sernity this is what you should do ::
i gave eromious info as an example .
Hold your hands up and say "ok i made a mistake" not ....
" NO I'M ALWAYS RIGHT ....cos cos cos , my mOm makes nicer cookies than your mOm..."
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kanark did seafires ever get incrimented flaps?
(i've seen pics of Spit Vb's taking off a CV in burma with their flaps held open with wooden blocks to aide take off.
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Hmmm, I don't know. Maybe the Mk 46 and Mk 47, but I doubt earlier.
Guppy knows this stuff better than I do though.
Also, Seafires could use catapults whereas Spitfires could not. I don't know how many British CVs had catapults though.
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Originally posted by B3YT
" NO I'M ALWAYS RIGHT ....cos cos cos , my mOm makes nicer cookies than your mOm..."
To be honest, I would never have expected THAT from YOU of all people. It leads me to reconsider my thoughts on my 'friends'. Interesting...
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serenity i'm saying it AS a freind. dude your just making yourself look foolish. PLease do some reading on what pilot who both flew AND fought against it saw it do .
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No you wont.
Bronk
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won't what who wha????
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Well Serenity, got film?
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Well Serenity, got film?
Heh..
I'm very eager to see a film of a lower Spit16 catch up to a Me262 already doing 500mph... except for some reason the film's not being posted for weeks.
Maybe we should send this case to Jamie and Adam so they can feature it in their show, "Mythbusters".