Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Xargos on February 08, 2007, 10:40:35 PM
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Which one do you carry on the streets and why?
I carry a S&W model 60-9 (wheelGun)because:
They don't jam.
If I have a misfire all I have to do is squeeze the trigger again.
I can fire it through the clothing in my pocket and not worry about the slide getting caught in the lining.
It's easier to grab in a hurry because the handle is not up as tight against the skin as an auto.
I always know what state of readiness it's in.
It's not picky about what kind of ammo it's feed.
The barrel doesn't move so it's a stabler shooting platform.
Easier to clean then an auto.
Also, what kind of holster do you use: paddle, pancake, shoulder, ankle?
Is it leather?
:aok
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Joey, have you ever been to a Turkish prison?
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Glock Model 29, 10mm sub-compact.
Small, dependable, good safety features, basically a .40-cal "magnum", very easy to keep and maintain.
Got it when they made the law about 10 round mags. Figure still a good idea to keep it with the 10 rd mag..... in case I am forced to use it, so some overzealous prosecutor, or family lawyer in civil case, won't try to hang me for having 15 rds in my older .40 Ruger P91DC (my former concealed carry tool).... just because they are legal again (and were still legal to have during the ban by grandfather clause) may not matter in the unreality that is a court of law.
Similarly, I never carry reloads. Factory only. Cor-Bon usually.
Paddle holster.
20 years with CCP's from 3 states. Never needed to use it.
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Ruger P90DC .45, shoulder
Ruger SP101 .38 Special, ankle
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Any of you tried one of the .44 Cal ultra-lights, If so what did you think of them?
Also, any of you ever been shooting a revolver and think you have a misfire so you squeeze the trigger again then find that misfire was really a hang-fire and it blows up in your hand?
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No and no.
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im a ninja
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Do you know what a "ninja" is in prison? :D
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when you get out of jail how about you wash up & then tell me about it
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lol, I worked in one.
When we would get ready to roll on an inmate they would wet their T-shirt and wrap it around their head because they knew they would be gassed before we struck and we called that "ninjaing up". Any time I hear that word now I think of someone about to get rolled on.
Some of them would smear their feces all over themselves thinking we would be afraid to grab them.
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No Hash Browns for me at IHOP this morning...
visuals suck
*Skuzz we need a Hurlin Icon:*
Mac
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Can you Highjack your own thread?
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Originally posted by AWMac
No Hash Browns for me at IHOP this morning...
visuals suck
*Skuzz we need a Hurlin Icon:*
Mac
just throw-up a little in your mouth? :rofl :D :cry
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No Hash Browns for me at IHOP this morning...
visuals suck
*Skuzz we need a Hurlin Icon:*
(http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/sick0006.gif) (http://www.thesmilies.com)
My work here is done.
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Originally posted by tedrbr
20 years with CCP's from 3 states. Never needed to use it.
Whats CCP....
I assume the P is for police or patrol...
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Originally posted by mussie
Whats CCP....
I assume the P is for police or patrol...
Cancealed Carry Permit?
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Originally posted by wrag
Cancealed Carry Permit?
DOH!!!!!!!!
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Glock M30 in a Fannypack- I love my .45 :D
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smith 340 pd scandium... .357 at 12 oz.. shrouded hammer fits in the front pocket without being seen.
depends tho.. if you can... a Kimber in .45 is with me or even a makarov or... my cut down Ruger redhawk in 44 mag (they now make one very similar to the one I built called an "alaskan")
I have not ever fired the scandium 44 but am seriously thinking of getting one. I love the 44 and this seems like a great hiking or travel gun.
I don't use reloads either except to shoot for fun. I load hydrashoks in every social gun.
lazs
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only had a revolver jam one time, was shooting cheap wadcutter reloads that i bought at the gun shop to make holes in paper, one primer was not fully seated and jammed the cylinder, like lazs says , only use factory ammo for "social work".
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Thos ultralights made of titanium sure do kick harder. I like the good old heavy guns. Kinda partial to the 44 mag. Would like a 500 volver, just because (good enough reason, aint it?) :D
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Originally posted by lazs2
smith 340 pd scandium... .357 at 12 oz.. shrouded hammer fits in the front pocket without being seen.
depends tho.. if you can... a Kimber in .45 is with me or even a makarov or... my cut down Ruger redhawk in 44 mag (they now make one very similar to the one I built called an "alaskan")
I have not ever fired the scandium 44 but am seriously thinking of getting one. I love the 44 and this seems like a great hiking or travel gun.
I don't use reloads either except to shoot for fun. I load hydrashoks in every social gun.
lazs
How do you carry the Kimber? I'm curious because I'm interested in carrying a full size Taurus 9mm pistol I have.
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You won't like the way I carry the kimber.
I use a "clipit" it is a clip like for folding knives and it goes under the ejection port side grip and comes out under the ejection port. it clips to the belt behind the back and inside the pants... I have the same thing for the makarov.
as far a recoil.. I am not especially recoil sensitive but.. the 340 kicks like hell.. I have heard the 44 mag version is even worse. If I need to use it I won't care.
I believe that for most of us tho... we will carry the gun around for life and use it maybe once or twice. the ease of carry is far more important than if it stings a little when fired.
lazs
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Originally posted by Chairboy
Joey, have you ever been to a Turkish prison?
LMAO
People used to tease me with that line because of my agent moulder affect.
But seriously, lets compare scars now.
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Lazs, I found something you might appreciate. If you don't already have one.
http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=JA295&cat=3158
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Originally posted by tedrbr
Glock Model 29, 10mm sub-compact.
Small, dependable, good safety features, basically a .40-cal "magnum", very easy to keep and maintain.
Got it when they made the law about 10 round mags. Figure still a good idea to keep it with the 10 rd mag..... in case I am forced to use it, so some overzealous prosecutor, or family lawyer in civil case, won't try to hang me for having 15 rds in my older .40 Ruger P91DC (my former concealed carry tool).... just because they are legal again (and were still legal to have during the ban by grandfather clause) may not matter in the unreality that is a court of law.
Similarly, I never carry reloads. Factory only. Cor-Bon usually.
Paddle holster.
20 years with CCP's from 3 states. Never needed to use it.
I've got a P91DC, and love it! Paddle's are the way to go!
I've only ever had to draw on someone once. Came out of a store to see some jerkoff beating up his girlfriend/wife. This doesn't fly with me, so, I stuck my big nose in the situation. He turned on me with a rather large Buck knife. The old saying about bringing a knife to a gunfight comes into play. Long story short, he took off, and she slapped me for not minding my own business.......lesson learned!
Also have a Sig P226 9mm. Not much of a fan of 9mm's, but it's a sweet concealed carry weapon.
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Originally posted by lazs2
You won't like the way I carry the kimber.
I use a "clipit" it is a clip like for folding knives and it goes under the ejection port side grip and comes out under the ejection port. it clips to the belt behind the back and inside the pants... I have the same thing for the makarov.
as far a recoil.. I am not especially recoil sensitive but.. the 340 kicks like hell.. I have heard the 44 mag version is even worse. If I need to use it I won't care.
I believe that for most of us tho... we will carry the gun around for life and use it maybe once or twice. the ease of carry is far more important than if it stings a little when fired.
lazs
You have an actual clip mounted on the gun?
I was thinking about getting a holster. But seeing as how I mostly wear T-Shirts, is it kosher or even reasonable to get a shoulder holster? Should I look for some sort of inner belt holster?
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Laser, this is what I use in the hot months of summer down here in S.C.
http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=NP056&cat=2958
You maybe able to find a cheaper one somewhere else, Galls can be very expensive.
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I carry a Springfield Armory XD-40 in a Safariland ALS holster. Once I have some extra money I am going to buy a Springfield XD-40 compact for off-duty carry.
So, to answer the question, semi-auto.
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xargos.. you are kidding right? I am not gonna wear special clothes for guns.. for the same reason.. I don't really own many holsters that aren't plain ol' plain sight carry ones. I do own a desanitis one that fits in the front pocket and keeps the butt of the 340 pd pointed up and in the right angle and obscures the outline.
I don't expect to get into some kind of prolonged gunfight at long range or I would carry my 44 with a couple of my safariland speed loaders.
If it gets worse than that..... well.. I will carry my M1 garand and move about carefully.
lazs
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My answer to this "controversy" remains the same. Use what you can hit reliably with that you can also conceal if that is your plan.
For me I have 2 that I use and did use for that purpose.
A S&W 66 with round butt and 2.75" barrel. Medium frame revolver, decent caliber (.357 or .38 with good loads) and most importantly very accurate for me.
Second option and one I use most often is a Glock model 19 that I used both on and off duty for several years.
Frankly the S&W conceals better especially under a T shirt. I am comfortable with either one.
The one most over riding consideration is still accuracy. If you can't hit with what you are shooting you are not only wasting your time but endangering others. You can't miss fast enough or often enough to beat some one who can hit with what they are shooting and that goes for any caliber. A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .50 cal anything.
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mav.. accuracy is very important but I would modify that if I may..
accuracy is hitting what you shoot at.. if you can hit a stationary target at 100 yards but miss one at 10 yards that is running... shoot at the 100 yard one but not the running one. If is far enough away that I can't hit it then it is probly no threat to me in any case.
cops today and... a lot of civilians feel that the most important thing is ammo capacity... 10-30 round mags... empty em as fast as you can. great in a war zone but.. I dunno... I want to think about every round I squeeze off.
I tried the little 340 pd at the range and, like all J frame smiths... if you do your part it will put rounds on paper every time at 25 yards... you don't need any more "accuracy" than that.
you do need to know your capabilities tho. I can't imagine a situation that I would need more than 5 shots... I might want more but I don't think I would need em.
When the carrying is happening.. the 340 is the best gun in the world... when the shooting starts... I might wish I had your 66 instead but... not to the point of despair. The 340 will do the same things as the 66.
one thing for sure.. if it was too hot or to hard to conceal the 66 so it got left home... the 340 is infinitely better.
Would rather have my PPK in 32 with me than a full size glock at home.
lazs
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Laz,
Please tell me where I said anything different about accuracy than you did. Please re read the last paragraph of my post. Nowhere in my post was I discussing long range or target grade shooting. :huh
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mav... you did not. I agree with everything you said. I was "expanding" on it as I see it.
I think that some people have a different take on "accuracy" and that it is worthwhile to clarify. I was and am, sure that we feel the same on the subject.
I also would say that a cap and ball revolver in the hands of a man who knows how to use it is plenty good enough against a 15 round supergun in the hands of someone who does not.
lazs
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I carry a S&W 40 sigma VE nice wepon It's a auto too, The weel is great just be shure you practice your reloading even with a speed loader it can be a task. I also carry a BlackHawk Carbon Fiber SERPA Holster holster It can be a paddle or it also has the belt rings. And you can get it for a weel gun too. This one is for the auto here. (http://www.blackhawk.com/product_detail.asp?product_id=5263&d=)
This is the one for the weel gun here. (http://www.blackhawk.com/product_detail.asp?product_id=5328&d=)
This hloster is great for any kind of carry on duty or consealed carry.:aok
RED:aok
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I carry Chuck Norris around.
I don't need a gun.
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Originally posted by Yknurd
I carry Chuck Norris around.
I don't need a gun.
Yep no one wants to touch Chuck Norris's Beeyotch alright
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Glock 19 our 26 great carry guns. I dont carry in public because i dont see the need today in the areas that i travel. Both glocks are light, no thrills and work every time you pull the trigger. Pick up a used one for $400 and call it a day. Plus mags and other components are cheap..
Xd sub compact are great from what i have heard.
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I always carry a Blackberry in it's special holster, saved me a few times, especially in some tight spots in some bars/clubs when the beer goggles have been worn for a few hours.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I can't imagine a situation that I would need more than 5 shots... I might want more but I don't think I would need em.
lazs
I tend to disagree with this statement. I, like most people, have never been in a gunfight. From what I have read though, almost anyone who ever has, says the same thing: During the course of the fight, they had no concept of how many rounds they actually fired. most thought 2 or 3 rounds, when in reality, it was more like 10. This is most likely due to the high levels of adrenaline, and a degree of panic. Police officers train extensively for this type of situation, but just look at some of the video's that they show on tv. they'll fire 10 rounds, and reload, sometimes not hitting anything.
The bottom line is, accuracy on a range, and accuracy in an actual gunfight are totally different animals.
BTW, if there are any LEO's on here with experience to share on the subject, I'd love to hear it.
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<== Sig 229 .357cal for work, Sig 239 9mm for carry, Kel-Tec .380 for a pocket gun, Glock 22 .40cal just because i wanted it.
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I am a retired C/O from S.C. and like all other law enforcement divisions we have to requalify every year. One thing that is not well known is you should train yourself to use both hands on your weapon because many people shoot through their free hand in the heat of battle. I grew up with firearms and it's amazing how much of the little things I did not know until I was trained properly. My first instructor told my class that he would rather train someone who never fired a weapon before then try to retrain someone who had.
P.S. How many of you reload your own ammo? I find it very relaxing to do.
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i dont reload yet, i want to get into it sometime though.
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Make sure the room you reload in is not carpeted, if you try to vacuum up any spills you may just blow your machine up. :D
P.S. If you use an older reload manual make sure you don't go over their max load recommendations. Newer manuals do not show a real max load because they worry about being sued. Just because the gun does not blow up using max loads the first time you shoot them does not mean your gun is not being damaged.
P.P.S. I hope you noted my experience with hang-fires a few posts up, never assume its a miss-fire.
P.P.P.S. I can't cast my own bullets anymore because the level of lead in my body is too high now.
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Originally posted by Helrazr1
I tend to disagree with this statement. I, like most people, have never been in a gunfight. From what I have read though, almost anyone who ever has, says the same thing: During the course of the fight, they had no concept of how many rounds they actually fired. most thought 2 or 3 rounds, when in reality, it was more like 10. This is most likely due to the high levels of adrenaline, and a degree of panic. Police officers train extensively for this type of situation, but just look at some of the video's that they show on tv. they'll fire 10 rounds, and reload, sometimes not hitting anything.
The bottom line is, accuracy on a range, and accuracy in an actual gunfight are totally different animals.
BTW, if there are any LEO's on here with experience to share on the subject, I'd love to hear it.
:lol Used to go through 100 rounds in NO TIME flat! M60 machinegun uses up ammo FAST!
When the body chemicals get to pumpin time itself SEEMS to change!
Color get more intense, smells become different, stronger? Your sense of touch becomes, .... the grip of a gun can feel like your holding a waffle iron!
Not uncommon for tunnel vision to set it, OR it can SEEM like you see everything all at once.
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Originally posted by Helrazr1
BTW, if there are any LEO's on here with experience to share on the subject, I'd love to hear it. [/B]
All I can tell you is that the sound of a shotgun cycling is enough to stop an inmate climbing the fence. In this state we can shoot them once any part of their body breaks the plane of the first (inside) fence.
I know at least two inmate who owe their life to officers who have seen too much killing in battle, but I also bet that if they did not freeze when they did they would have been shot.
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I reload and I have had fewer problems with my reloads than factory loads over the years... I don't want to defend one of my reloads in court tho.
disagree all you want about needing hundreds of rounds. You may... if that is how you are trained or think.
Before hi capacity semi autos cops carried six shot revolvers in mostly .357.. they seldom had to reload and the average fite was 1.7 rounds.. if you are aware of having a limited ammo supply you will go for accuracy..
now.. the average is up to 7 or 9 round a fite... it is spray and pray.. the fite only ends tho when someone settles down and aims.
Now... these are cop shootings.. ones where you can't disengage.. we civies don't get into those kinds of fights. they are close and when rounds are fired the bad guys run away before the police get there. I have been in situations where shots were fired 2 times... once I had a single action ruger in 44 mag and the other a charter arms bulldog in 44 special (a very small 5 shot revolver).
pulling the gun was enough in one case and firing a round into a car was enough in the other. cops get into gun fights... I don't intend to. I intend to find cover and to fire only if I have a shot. I plan on having them run away or me being able to. I plan on waiting em out if I have to. I plan on them wanting to get the hell out of there before the cops arrive.
I want a really loud gun with a lot of muzzle flash and the abiltiy to put someone down with one shot if need be at close range.
If I planned on getting into some kind of prolonged gunfight on the street I would carry a rifle around.
lazs
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Good post, laz. Wish a couple carry permits had been in that Utah mall to drop the shotgun creep before he killed several people.
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No disrespect to anyone on here, From past experience, it's safe to say that a lot of weapon carriers would probably freeze, Injure themselves, miss the target and a few other things too.
Probably fail to finish the Job too.
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Springfield XD Tactical in .45 ACP, Hornady TAP 180 gr two 13 rnd clips, shoulder holster leather. Why... well no one has said how big the guy will be who might attack me.
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Originally posted by Xargos
Laser, this is what I use in the hot months of summer down here in S.C.
http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=NP056&cat=2958
You maybe able to find a cheaper one somewhere else, Galls can be very expensive.
Galls is very proud of thier stuff for some reason. Even the junk.:D
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Yeah, I was thinking what I might or could do if I saw a guy with a shotgun blasting people at a mall and I had a carry, maybe even that S&W 340 .357 snubnose revolver.
First I'd have to get close enough to be effective. That would be within about 7 yards. To a guy blasting everyone with a shotgun? Not likely I could achieve that.
Second, I'd be taking the risk people would see me as another bad guy. Law enforcement responders in particular might take a dim view of me with a gun.
I'm glad many off duty LE carry guns. Great unseen reservoir of additional good guy enforcers.
I know how to shoot, I'm ex military, but unless by fate I was really close to a bad guy when he started shooting, or unless I was more or less deputized by responders seeking reinforcements, it would be a very risky thing to proceed toward a long gun shooter with only a short backup gun.
At best maybe I could distract him. Or that might just make him do more damage. Maybe a suicide charge would do it, getting off at least a couple rounds at him. Tough decisions, these life and death encounters.
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hawco... you may be right.. it is said that only about 30% of soldiers will fire their weapons when they need to.
My experiance has been different is all... everyone seemed more than willing to shoot.. I know that in my case.. no real reaction seems to kick in till after... like spinning a car at high speed under power... you react to get things back to normal and when it's all over... you look at your hands shaking and laugh.
I think that because so few even want concealed carry permits.. you get men and women who are predisposed to have the will to do whatever... just as in my experiance... the criminals that carried em were quite capable of using em.
maybe next time I will freeze up but I can't imagine that happening.
lazs
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halo.. with the 340pd I know I could hit him at up to 40 yards if I had time and he was not moving much. even if I missed once or twice I bet he would change his whole attitude. bet people could get away while he was worried bout his own skin.
sure... I would rather have my 44 ruger or even the Kimber 45 but... I would not feel unarmed with the 340.
I could worry about my bruised hand later.
lazs
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laz, I've enjoyed your insights about the 340. Reminds me of my relatively brief infatuation with the Colt lightweight Special Agent in .38. I thought I really liked that gun, but one day realized I hadn't shot it in a long time.
It was only a 5-shot, and I left the cylinder empty under the hammer for extra safety, so it didn't have much firepower with only four .38s. A friend had a similar gun that he was proud about uppowering to plus loads, but I was never one for expensive hot loads even fired rarely.
I took the Special Agent to the indoor range and was surprised at the unpleasant blast and recoil even with .38s. That's when I made my even trade for a Ruger Security-Six .357 4-inch barrel that Ruger later refurbished to excellent condition.
That's the best trade I ever made. The 4-inch barrel is much more useful to me, and the heavier frame is more pleasant to shoot with .357 than the lightweight Colt was with .38.
Your points about the 340 are well taken as always. I'm amazed you can hit with it at 40 yards. I'm lucky to hit anything with even the 4-inch Ruger at 20 yards. But that's okay because I never expect to have to shoot a handgun at anything beyond 10 yards.
I researched more about the 340 and find many owners/shooters lamenting its blast and recoil but valuing it for the same reasons you mention in close quarters carry self-defense. As you say, in a crisis things are different and we need max blast, impact, and deterrence, and any discomfort is a small price to pay.
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How many of you who use a revolver practice loading one round then shooting ,then load another single round then shooting, and repeat on and on as fast as you can?
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Originally posted by Halo
Good post, laz. Wish a couple carry permits had been in that Utah mall to drop the shotgun creep before he killed several people.
Have you seen this???
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/02/13/jihad-american-style-18-yr-old-bosnian-muslim-refugee-kills-6-people-on-american-soil/
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Thank you Wrag.
P.S. Have any of you ever used flechette (http://www.armslocker.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32156) rounds in your 12 gauge? I've never tried them and I'm curious of what you think about them.
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xargos... I haven't done that since I carried single action revolvers a lot.
I have jet loaders that load all six (or five) at once.. my 45 acp smith takes full moon clips. When out plinking I have always loaded 2 rounds at a time in double action revolvers.
halo.. why load 4 in a detective special? it is safe to load 5.
wrag.. If it becomes more of an israel situation here in the states... I will be forced to modify my views.
I would probly carry the kimber 45 as the least powerful I would feel safe with and go with either a 4" .357 or my cut down 44 mag ruger.
I am very comfortable with the 44 and have fired maybe a quarter of a million 44 mag rounds over the years maybe more... maybe less..
I also like the .357 revolver in 4"... if you can see it you can hit it.
I am seriously looking into the new scandium 44 mag revolver...
for autos.... I trust the kimber but the 45 is a pretty weak caliber.. I would be interested in a Kimber 1911 in 357 sig tho..
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Wrag, thanks, that article claiming the mall shooter had terrorist motives is disturbing to say the least. Could inspire more armed citizen augmentation here like Israel.
Laz, I'm ultra conservative with firearms so didn't carry a shell under the hammer in that Colt .38 because I couldn't in my older Ruger single actions. Now with a new Ruger Single-Six and its safer hammer mechanism, I'm comfortable with a shell under the hammer. Still not sure the Colt was safe that way though.
Xargos, I haven't shot anything but standard ammo through my 12-gauge Coach shotgun. I was intrigued by some of the wild novelty rounds available for shotguns, but apparently most are illegal here in Virginia.
For something different, you might want to try some of the little Aguila 1 3/8-inch minishells with four No. 1 buckshot and seven No. 4 buckshot. Only fired them at paper so far, but don't think they're lethal enough for serious home defense (still use regular No. 1 buckshot for that). They won't work in many shotguns except double- or single-barrels.
Laz, do you consider the .357 sig more potent than the .45? I've fired through the main calibers with rental guns (9, 357 sig, 40, 45) and thought the 45 had more oomph. For some reason I really like the 40 the most. I'm still thinking about getting an XD, but haven't yet decided between 4- or 5-inch barrel and 40 or 45 acp.
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[
BTW, if there are any LEO's on here with experience to share on the subject, I'd love to hear it. [/B]
In 18 years, discharged my fire arm in the line of duty twice. Each time, my biggest fear is where the projectile would eventually stop.
Started out with TZ-75 9mm, excellent weapon. Down side high muzzle velocity, hit your target......may go through and accidentally hit second target (bystander), a block away. Moved to .357 S&W wheel gun, another excellent weapon. From there I went to the S&W .40 cal, auto & never looked back, knock down of a .45 cal, accurate as a 9mm. Backup weapon .380 w/silver tips. Off duty weapon S&W hammerless .38 special Light Weight.
I see some posts here that think the Poolice walk around with the shootemup attitude. Nothing is further from the truth. Any officer pulls that weapon out of his / her hoster (let alone discharges that weapon) puts themselve's in line for.......shoot reveiw board, internal affairs review board, goes before the Grand Jury to determine if Deadly Force was justified. Then there's the person that was offended by the officer displaying deadly force........and the civil suit that follows. On top of that, you have the feds that look into the case if the perp screams civil rights violations, then you find yourself in front of a federal judge.
BTW: My first shooting was in effort to disable a vehicle trying to run me down; Shooting review board, IA review, Grand Jury. (2 shots)
Second was shot and killed attack dog sent in on me during a narcotics raid: Shooting review, IA, Grand jury, and civil case lodged against us for cruel animal treatment (lol) (1 shot)
As a cop, not only do we have to be concerned about the use of our firearms, but the rest of our equipment too; baton, taser, mace, even our patrol car lolol.
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Big salute to all law enforcement and military, the thin blue and camouflaged lines that separate us from the beasts, human and otherwise.
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As I stated before, I worked in a max prison and I spent most of my 13 hour shift without seeing another officer but whenever I called for help I'd have 20 other officers there within three minutes. After seeing how these polecats acted behind bars there is no way in hell I'd want to become a street cop. I salute all those who serve on the street. :aok
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I either carry a CZ75 compact or a S&W 340 .38spl Bodyguard. Usually, because I'm lazy, I just grab the S&W and go, but I've never worried about failures to fire, etc with my CZ. It's a matter for practicing and using it enough that if something does hiccup, I know I can return it to fuctioning immediately.
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Originally posted by Flit
Fannypack
:rofl :rofl :rofl