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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Sincraft on February 09, 2007, 12:03:57 AM

Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Sincraft on February 09, 2007, 12:03:57 AM
How does a game like this turn a profit on $14.99 per month?  Less for those that are truly addicted and KNOW they will continue to be so, by giving a discount to those that sign up for 6 months.

I'm just wondering as I figure there are about 600-700 people online when I go on.  The standard rule is 10x that amount is the amount of subscribers.

But when I go into the scores, it looks like I'm # 3500 around for bombing, as I have never bombed or scored as a bomber at least, I figure that is the # of current subscribers this campaign?  

So I did the math, and figured on about 2 full time programmers, 2 or 3 office persons and 2-3 general support (I.T, Managers, Owners) people.

How many people are employeed with this game, anyone know?

How many servers do they have running this game?
What is their total bandwidth?

Seems like stupid questions, I know...but I'm curious :)  

Very good game.  The graphics are NOT an issue while up in the air, and even while on a boat you could care less either.  Now, I can't imagine 2d infantry being much fun nor tanking, other than to complete an objective.  The fluid motion of the movements in this game make it very enjoyable, and you have to admit it is really nice to be in a game that runs well on even not so up to date systems!  heck, I could play this on my laptop if I wanted!
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Krusty on February 09, 2007, 12:10:37 AM
You can estimate about 5,000 subscribers. Times $15 a month. That's $75000 a month. $900,000 a year.

Pretty lucrative, even using rough estimate numbers.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Mustaine on February 09, 2007, 12:13:49 AM
Sincraft, if you want to know more about HTC go to "about us" on the home page, it lists every employee.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: RedTop on February 09, 2007, 01:24:00 AM
Well, **** me gently with a chainsaw. Do I look like Mother Theresa?

Heather Chandler/Kim Walker

Heathers
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Mustaine on February 09, 2007, 01:25:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RedTop
Well, **** me gently with a chainsaw. Do I look like Mother Theresa?

Heather Chandler/Kim Walker

Heathers
yup :aok
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: tedrbr on February 09, 2007, 02:01:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by RedTop
Well, **** me gently with a chainsaw. Do I look like Mother Theresa?

Heather Chandler/Kim Walker

Heathers



Must be the dress there, RedTop..... or the pumps.  :confused:
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Nilsen on February 09, 2007, 03:05:23 AM
5000 subs??

I doubt that. As far as i can see its the same (+-) peeps online every time im on and i doubt my brain is big enough to house all them handles :D

I realise that there is prolly afew online when im not there but still...

I would guess somewere between 1000 and 3000 PAYING customers. We will nevern know for sure, but they must be making good money.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Ball on February 09, 2007, 03:12:37 AM
HT spends most of his time arsing about in an RV-8...

Skuzzy drives a Lexus...

Says it all really. ;) :D
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: NHawk on February 09, 2007, 04:48:00 AM
5000 subscribers is actually what I would consider a low estimate. It's probably well over 6000.

Even at the low 5000, HTC could pay all of it's employees $60k a year, pay for a T1 line for the servers and still have a tidy sum left over. I'm actually surprised HTC doesn't own their offices. Or do they and they haven't told us? :)

The game doesn't take as much bandwidth as you'd think, and the servers are located in house. So, cost is limited.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: TexInVa on February 09, 2007, 05:09:37 AM
My mother always said I was as tenacious as a ferret on crack.

Vincent Palmer/ Christian Slater in Pursued
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: storch on February 09, 2007, 07:06:41 AM
volume decreases costs
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Sincraft on February 09, 2007, 07:20:13 AM
Sorry there is no way this game runs on just a T1.  Maybe an OC3? Probably more like 10   - OC3's.


Could be wrong though.  Something I said LONG ago is coming true however.  With better processory power, faster drives and better caching both at the DNS level and at the server level - connectivity reqs have fallen...although user/application needs have increase thus the constant increase overall throughout the world.


I was just curious.  I estimated they are paying about 2.5k per month in bandwidth alone.  Their servers are probably all on lease and cost them about the same amount also.  I am just guessing but, could be wrong as I have no idea what type of load this game puts on a server.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Nilsen on February 09, 2007, 07:28:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sincraft
Their servers are probably all on lease and cost them about the same amount also.  


Skuzzy has buildt the servers himself so no.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Ghosth on February 09, 2007, 07:29:34 AM
Sincraft AH actually needs less than a stable 56k dialup to work well. Stable is the key, preferably with low latency. Server actually doesn't have that much to do. Most of the game runs our our front end.

Next while I can't prove it, and HTC won't say, I suspect actually active accounts have been much higher than 6000 in the past. You can't necessarily go by what you see in the 2 late war arena's. There are a lot of people who stick around just for flying events, or fri night squad ops, or who prefer to hang in the TA.

When I hear that HT has sold his RV8, or that server needs an upgrade & they can't afford it I'll start worrying. Meantime all thats in HT's court.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Donzo on February 09, 2007, 07:33:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by NHawk

The game doesn't take as much bandwidth as you'd think, and the servers are located in house. So, cost is limited.


I thought the servers were located at the ISP (AT&T).
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Roscoroo on February 09, 2007, 07:37:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sincraft
Sorry there is no way this game runs on just a T1.  Maybe an OC3? Probably more like 10   - OC3's.


Could be wrong though.  


you are wrong ... they had T-1 pipes at the Old building.

I believe the servers are back in house Donzo.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Nilsen on February 09, 2007, 07:37:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Donzo
I thought the servers were located at the ISP (AT&T).


That would take all the fun out of the game! How could Skuzzy trip on any vital cords and unplug the game if it was not in-house?
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: republic on February 09, 2007, 08:00:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ghosth
Sincraft AH actually needs less than a stable 56k dialup to work well. Stable is the key, preferably with low latency. Server actually doesn't have that much to do. Most of the game runs our our front end.


I can vouch for that.  My dialup connects at 26.4.  I have a bandwidth monitor and rarely does it spike above 2KBps.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Puck on February 09, 2007, 08:26:38 AM
Fear leads to anger
Anger leads to hate
Hate leads to using Windows for mission critical applications...

This is all proprietary information.  As long as HTC is a privately held company we will not, nor should we, know the answers to any of this.  In the immortal words of Cary Grant: It's like watching a strip tease.  Don't worry about how it's done, just enjoy what's coming off.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: hitech on February 09, 2007, 09:48:32 AM
Also it is not exactly in good taste to discuses our finances on our web pages.

HiTech
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Kuhn on February 09, 2007, 09:49:56 AM
Its funny how people try to guess about stuff like this. I wonder how close or far off some of y'all are.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Mustaine on February 09, 2007, 09:55:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TexInVa
My mother always said I was as tenacious as a ferret on crack.

Vincent Palmer/ Christian Slater in Pursued
yup :aok
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: mussie on February 09, 2007, 09:56:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Also it is not exactly in good taste to discuses our finances on our web pages.

HiTech


I was waiting for that....

EDIT: Personally, I would have found it hard to be so diplomatic...
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: hubsonfire on February 09, 2007, 10:00:30 AM
HiTech, where are the servers now? Still at the AT&T CO?
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Schatzi on February 09, 2007, 10:04:36 AM
Me thinks that most guesses couldnt be further from home. But im dipolomatic :D.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: storch on February 09, 2007, 10:19:50 AM
wait for the company to go public and buy the stock, then you'll know.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: NHawk on February 09, 2007, 10:20:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Also it is not exactly in good taste to discuses our finances on our web pages.

HiTech
I should have known better. I apologize HT.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Nilsen on February 09, 2007, 10:45:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by NHawk
I should have known better. I apologize HT.


I think he means that its bad taste for him/ the company to discuss it.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: hitech on February 09, 2007, 11:00:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
I think he means that its bad taste for him/ the company to discuss it.


That is NOT what I meant.

Server locations.

When you first make a connection you are connected direct to our office. It gives you the arena list, verifies login excetera.

Game servers are collocated with AT&T in north dallas.

Download servers, and some times some web page traffic are collocated with The Planet.

HiTech
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Benny Moore on February 09, 2007, 11:10:57 AM
So if, hypothetically, you guys shut down for whatever reason, even local area network play would stop working?
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Major Biggles on February 09, 2007, 11:17:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Benny Moore
So if, hypothetically, you guys shut down for whatever reason, even local area network play would stop working?



no, i *think* he was just reffering to online play, connecting and displaying the server list
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Nilsen on February 09, 2007, 11:27:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
That is NOT what I meant.

Server locations.

When you first make a connection you are connected direct to our office. It gives you the arena list, verifies login excetera.

Game servers are collocated with AT&T in north dallas.

Download servers, and some times some web page traffic are collocated with The Planet.

HiTech


So its the server we first connect to that Skuzzy has buildt? He has said in a different post that he made it.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Skuzzy on February 09, 2007, 11:59:40 AM
All the servers and computers at HTC were all built in-house, except for the ones at 'The Planet' (misc. operations).
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Max on February 09, 2007, 12:14:24 PM
Skuzzy, do you remember HeathKits when you were a kid? Ever build any of them?  I mucked up a CB radio pretty good when I was 11 :cry
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Shuffler on February 09, 2007, 12:40:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
That is NOT what I meant.

Server locations.

When you first make a connection you are connected direct to our office. It gives you the arena list, verifies login excetera.

Game servers are collocated with AT&T in north dallas.

Download servers, and some times some web page traffic are collocated with The Planet.

HiTech


Much more info than anyone here needed IMHO. But thanks HiTech... very interesting.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Nilsen on February 09, 2007, 12:57:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
All the servers and computers at HTC were all built in-house, except for the ones at 'The Planet' (misc. operations).


Upgrading them to vista any time soon? :D
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Bronk on February 09, 2007, 12:59:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
Upgrading them to vista any time soon? :D

*Bonks nilsen on the head*
Bad nilsen, bad bad.
:D :D



Bronk
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: hitech on February 09, 2007, 01:51:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
Upgrading them to vista any time soon? :D


Didn't you mean Downgrade? And none of our servers use MS os's.

HiTech
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: mussie on February 09, 2007, 02:09:31 PM
I thought I read that the servers ran Solaris....
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: porkfrog on February 09, 2007, 02:29:24 PM
personally i dont care where the servers are, how much money HT makes, if Skuzzy built the front end or whathaveyou. all i know is i LOVE this game and I thank HT and Skuzzy and the rest of the HT crew every month by sending in my 15 beans. i'd prolly send alot more if that's what it came down to.

i have a very crazy life. raising children. in the military. running a small business on the side. AHII is my vacation from the everyday. i don't watch much TV. i play this.

thanks for everything HT. i'm a fan and always will be.

<>


P.S. Can we please have a b25? the one with the NASTY NASTY nose cannon? :D
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Max on February 09, 2007, 02:32:15 PM
Schmoozer :D
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: mussie on February 09, 2007, 02:33:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by porkfrog
~snip~


P.S. Can we please have a b25? the one with the NASTY NASTY nose cannon? :D


SECOND THAT


:)
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: The Fugitive on February 09, 2007, 03:47:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Max
Skuzzy, do you remember HeathKits when you were a kid? Ever build any of them?  I mucked up a CB radio pretty good when I was 11 :cry


sure am glad you didn't build the servers then !  :D
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Nilsen on February 09, 2007, 04:00:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Didn't you mean Downgrade? And none of our servers use MS os's.

HiTech


Hush!

Havent you listened to anything Bill Gates has said??

You need to pay attention in class Coady :D
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Rolex on February 09, 2007, 06:15:29 PM
I think even the title of the thread is tacky. It's none of anyone's business. How would you feel if your boss decided to hold a meeting with all your co-workers to discuss your salary, living expenses and details of your credit history?

Posting on this BBS is talking to HTC face to face, and real-world courtesy doesn't end at your keyboard.
Title: Re: Turning a profit??
Post by: Murdr on February 09, 2007, 06:34:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sincraft
But when I go into the scores, it looks like I'm # 3500 around for bombing, as I have never bombed or scored as a bomber at least, I figure that is the # of current subscribers this campaign?
Tackyness aside.  I believe you figure wrong.  If you're 3500 in bombers that means 3499 other players did make a bomber sortie, and you are tied with all other players who did not.

There could be any number of players tied with you in last place.  There also could be any number of players tied in 0 place who have not logged the minium time in the "war arenas" to register a rank on that particular score database.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: 4XTCH on February 09, 2007, 07:30:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Max
Skuzzy, do you remember HeathKits when you were a kid? Ever build any of them?  I mucked up a CB radio pretty good when I was 11 :cry



When I was younger 10-11yrs old.... I'm 50 now... My Dad built our first Color TV from HeathKit... His second project was a Guitar Amplifier for a second hand electric guitar I purchased from a friend...

WOW didnt think anyone knew about those!!

4XTCH
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Irwink! on February 09, 2007, 08:14:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Max
Skuzzy, do you remember HeathKits when you were a kid? Ever build any of them?  I mucked up a CB radio pretty good when I was 11 :cry


My first amateur radio rig was a Heathkit DX60B. The only problem on startup was a cold solder joint on the "power on" indicator lamp. Dem were the days!
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Helrazr1 on February 09, 2007, 08:27:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
I think even the title of the thread is tacky. It's none of anyone's business. How would you feel if your boss decided to hold a meeting with all your co-workers to discuss your salary, living expenses and details of your credit history?

Posting on this BBS is talking to HTC face to face, and real-world courtesy doesn't end at your keyboard.


Well said, I'll second that!
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Sincraft on February 09, 2007, 09:32:16 PM
God, it wasn't a 'personal' question really.  It was just a curious question regarding the actual equipment used.  I find that stuff interesting.

I hear about the vast server banks running some of these online games and realize this game need nowhere near those but would imagine that there is some sort of cluster or at least a REALLY beefy server or two running hardcore with a 4 hour emergency support contract renewed every 6 months > 1 year with IBM. :)

Maybe I am used to over allocating bandwidth for companies that state their growth needs, and consider client/server apps run 24/7 = to something like what we are playing here and assumed they were running something decent.

A t1 into their office is NOT what is going on.  If it is, then I would be seriously surprised as they are putting all their eggs in one basket so to speak.

I would personally have sent these over to a managed service via a company such as ATT as suggested above.

No matter, the people running this operation are very smart and on the ball.  Many companies go with low ball hosting for their apps and pay dearly in latency and down times from overages in bandwidth and server loads.  

Glad they are at least making some $$$.  I always wonder how some of these smaller co.s are doing as what they provide is to me a win / win service for all parties involved. :)

Sorry if I offended you HITECH by discussing your 'personal' info, I just assumed as a paying customer I kinda had the right to ask a few questions as to what my money was going into :)  But I digrese.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Rolex on February 09, 2007, 09:50:48 PM
I'm sorry, but you have no rights to such, unless you are a stockholder. I've said my piece, so I'll leave it at that.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Skuzzy on February 10, 2007, 06:14:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Max
Skuzzy, do you remember HeathKits when you were a kid? Ever build any of them?  I mucked up a CB radio pretty good when I was 11 :cry
I remember them well.  Always looked forward to getting the catalog when I was growing up.  Never had the money to actually get any of them, but they did inspire me.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: TexInVa on February 10, 2007, 06:32:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Didn't you mean Downgrade? And none of our servers use MS os's.

HiTech


And yet, I still can't get AHII to play on a linux box without paying for another program.

That, btw, peeved me, but it's something I accept. All of my other games also require windows, so no big loss.

Thinking about it, I have 3 games, but I only play one....
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Odee on February 10, 2007, 07:55:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Also it is not exactly in good taste to discuses our finances on our web pages.

HiTech


Dude, you can't spell... :rofl   *j/k*

Anywho, the Tax records are public, if anyone cares to do a little research, ...and so much more exciting to decipher than our idle speculation. :O :t

Whoa, just saw this...
Quote
__________________
CallSign: Flacco
71st "Eagles" Squadron, RAF


Same state, same squadron, different worlds. :aok
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: DamnedRen on February 10, 2007, 11:02:39 AM
IMHO, curiosity goes something like...."What does DA mean?" or "Hey, I been flying with my buds for the past hour and I got discoed to the desktop for some reason. Now I try to get back in and can't." "It's says the arena is full so what's up with that? I mean, it wasn't my fault I got discoed". Or, "I keep getting shot down, how come?"

Asking how much money they make is kinda personal and unrelated to how much fun you're having in the game. Doncha think? It's kinda like my asking how much money you make, doing what, and how come you ain't making any more and what are you filing on your tax return? You show up and why shouldn't I be privy to that info? I mean, I don't know anything at all about you but I paid my money so I should know all about whom I'm virtual dogfighting, right?

Ren
The Damned
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: eskimo2 on February 10, 2007, 11:44:44 AM
There are also “players” who pay but do not play…  Who knows how many.

I don’t want to know how much the HTC guys make, but I think they deserve more than any pro athlete or entertainer.
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: storch on February 10, 2007, 12:34:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
There are also “players” who pay but do not play…  Who knows how many.

I don’t want to know how much the HTC guys make, but I think they deserve more than any pro athlete or entertainer.
yup
Title: Turning a profit??
Post by: Ghastly on February 10, 2007, 01:47:05 PM
Unlike many (or most) other business ventures, the development of the "major" WWII-based online flight sims have largely been a labor of love ( and high passions!)  ... hence (in part) why the reaction to the question was so strong.

Imagine if you poured your heart and soul and much of your adult life into crafting the fine sailboat that was the fullfillment of your life long dream - and then when you readied it for sail someone looked at it and said,

"What idiocy - there's no way that that stupid sailboat could ever pay for itself!"