Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Halo on February 09, 2007, 10:06:03 PM
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Took my 2005 Toyota Camry in for an oil change at 21,952 miles. Four months previously it had 20k service at 19,674 miles.
Service manager said rear brakes needed cleaning ($79.95) and transmission fluid needed changing ($123.88). I thought that was early for both jobs but agreed.
Was I had?
I'm a low mileage driver but keep the Camry out on the highway enough to not let it sludge up.
This dealership has a lifetime guarantee on major components as long as you have car serviced there. One catch for this car is oil change required every 5,000 miles or FOUR months, not six as Toyota requires.
I saw on line that around 2004 Toyota had problems with some engines sludging up because oil was not changed frequently enough in tough driving, e.g., big city commuting and traffic jams. This dealer plan might be a way for Toyota to address the problem without making a big deal of it and impairing confidence in Toyota vehicles.
Whatever, I'm in the four-month oil change cycle, and I don't like it. I've always changed oil at 3,000 miles or six months, whichever came first. Ironically, the Toyota dealer requirement is just about like that.
Interestingly, my wife bought a 2007 Toyota Corolla and there is no dealer requirement for oil changes except at the usual Toyota 5,000 miles or SIX months.
Some second opinions, please, especially from you car mechanics.
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Yes. You were had. Never go there again.
Brake cleaning and especially the tranny fluid change was way out of line. You should have gotten out of there spending no more than thirty dollars and a reccomendation that you change your air filter.
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Brake cleaning? Never heard of that.
The oil change place I frequent does something I like, they have a laminated sheet with boxes printed on it for various fluids, and they dab each box appropriately while checking the fluids. It's a checklist for them, and if they argue that something needs to be changed, I have more data to make the decision than just the mechanic's suggestion. Most of the time they show me the sheet and say "it's all fine, no need to do anything".
That's the other thing, look around until you find a shop you can trust. I'm sure a bad shop could dab the dipstick in mud or something if they were really committed to doing a number on you.
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I adhere to a 5,000 mile oil change whenever it happens. I use Amsoil synthetic. That translates into two to three a year depending on how much I drive it that year. I have done it this way for over 20 years. Never have had a sludging problem.The synthetics don't burn or oxidize as much and don't leave the residue standard oils do which is one of the reasons for extended service life.
A 3,000 mile oil change is plenty often enough using standard high grade oils if done every 90 to 120 days.
Mark
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I don't know about the cleaning the brakes thing but the tranny was probably past due. I like to do a complete service on mine about every 15k miles. I also change the differential oil at that time. I run synthetic oil (mobil1 or amsoil) after the first oil change and allow it to remain about 6k miles. I rotate the tirs every 3k.
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You're crazy Storch. The tranny should go at least 60k (more like 100k) between flushes.
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Dealerships suck. I would find a good honest independent mechanic. I change my oil once a year. The folks who tell you that you need to change it more often than 10K are the folks who profit from oil changes.
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I didn't address the brake cleaning. The brakes on that car are disks. The only thing they can do is blow off the outside of them or wash them with a hose. You can do that much for free in 5 minutes. They took you on that one.
Mark
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What, oil change at 5k miles? Thats only about 9000km, which is ridiculous..
Only Korean cars here have such service intervals, others are around 25 to 30k km. And our climate temperatures vary from -40 to +35 degrees celsius.
No problems whatsoever with such intervals. How its possible you got so short intervals there? The oils should be pretty same everywhere..
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Yeah, I'd say you got taken. Clean the rear brakes? Never heard that one. Especially since the fronts provide the majority of the stopping power.
A lot of the auto trannies coming out, and it has been this way for a while really, are service-free. I remember seeing that in a Mercedes back in '98 or '99, may have been a W210 but not real sure.
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My friend from Germany said almost the same thing...3-5K miles for oil changes?!
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Never buy another air filter again.
http://www.knfilters.com/
Also you might want to try one of these.
http://www.tornado-fuelsaver.tv/default.asp
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Originally posted by Xargos
Never buy another air filter again.
http://www.knfilters.com/
Also you might want to try one of these.
http://www.tornado-fuelsaver.tv/default.asp
You've been watching too much late night TV.
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Originally posted by Xargos
Never buy another air filter again.
http://www.knfilters.com/
Also you might want to try one of these.
http://www.tornado-fuelsaver.tv/default.asp
So, add a partial blockage to the intake system and increase HP and economy?
Don't think so.
The K&N filters are pretty good but a bit expensive. If you take care of it you won't have to replace it so it may all work out in the end.
Mark
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I had them both in the last 3 cars I had, back when I had a car. They work great.
Last cars where a 2003 Z-28, 2005 Chevy Econo Van and a '96 Crownvic.
P.S. made a mistake it was a 2002 Z not a 2003. I've burned too many brain cells.
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Originally posted by Xargos
I had them both in the last 3 cars I had, back when I had a car. They work great.
Last cars where a 2003 Z-28, 2005 Chevy Econo Van and a '96 Crownvic.
'03 Z-28?
Don't think so.
But I do have a KnN in my '02 Z-28.
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err... 2002 Z-28, sorry about that . Couldn't remember what year the last ones were made.
I miss my Z, but medical bills forced me to sell it.
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Did you all know those friendly guys at the counter make COMMISSION on service sales?
I have a good friend who works at a Ford dealership, the incentives are huge. Sell X amount of this service this month and get $$$$$
Check it out.
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Brake Cleaning? Is this like a gallon of prop wash? Never heard of such a thing. Definite ripoff.
Changing tranny fluid is a good idea, but rarely necessary before 50k miles.
I would not return to the place, unless you are a masochist.
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Originally posted by Xargos
I miss my Z, but medical bills forced me to sell it.
That sucks. I like my Z but I'd give anything to have my '96 Camaro back.
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Why do you like the '96 more?
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First thing I did when I bought the Z-28 was to get a dash-mat. The glare from that big windshield was just killing me.
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The tornado fuel savers don't work according to my auto teacher last year, no personal experience on that. A rear brake clean/adjust is for drum brakes to get all the brakes material out that's accumulated, we usually only do it if requested or we are checking brakes because it's normally not one of those vital things.
I'd agree on the trans service, should go at least 60K. I've never changed any fluid that severely burned before 60 or so.
A standard lube oil filter makes only a little bit of the money of a standard shop, a couple thousand a year will get you some money but it won't keep a shop running, they depend on you turning up your radio when your brakes start to squeal or when you drive your axles into oblivion..
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Long story but the short version; I bought it brand new, babied it the 10 years I owned it, was in near mint condition, got great gas milage, had enough HP to keep me happy, was paid for, insurance was low, looked like a shark, etc, etc, etc.
Then a drunk topless dancer hit me and totalled it.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/txflood77598/Camaro.jpg)
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g308/txflood77598/IM000483.jpg)
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Glad you got out okay from that one Diablo. My step dad's Z-28 was a thrill to drive the one time I got to, then he sold it :(
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Are those headlights stock or is the photo just fooling me?
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Only thing not stock on the '96 was the KnN F.I.P.K intake, a Hurst shifter with aluminum billet "T" handle, and the Borla exhaust. Everything else is factory stock.
And thanks nirvana, but truth be told I am still feeling the effects of that wreck.
EDIT the headlights look like that because the contrast was cranked up on that pic. Looked kinda cool so I left it like that.
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rgr, I'm sorry your still feeling the effects of the wreck. Those headlights just look like there blacked out to me, guess it's just the shadowing.
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The "Tornado" is a totally and completely useless device, unless you want to add a restriction to your air intake then it performs great. I hear a louder radio makes your car run faster, too.
Now, were you snookered? No, you were bent over the table and ****ed sans kisses. Trans fluid should be changed at 50K and brakes should be cleaned...well, I've never cleaned the brakes on any vehicle I've ever owned unless I was putting on new brakes.
Sorry, but that's the honest truth.
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Ouch, this is just as painful as I suspected it would be.
However, some minority viewpoints here are reinforced by Google searches revealing some advocates of transmission fluid changes around 20,000 miles or less and cleaning gunk from drum brakes (in my 4-cylinder Camry, drum rear, disc front).
So now I'm thinking that while the car probably would run fine without these two actions at this time, both also probably will make the car run better and longer. Always a balancing act between optimum return on investment and optimum conservation of resources.
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I'll flush out all vintage Volkswagen radiators for just $59.95!
:D
Mac
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Your '05 Camry has rear drums? That's odd.
Mac, send Al Gore the bill when you have to add liquid cooling to your VW's due to "global warming".
:D
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Your '05 Camry has rear drums? That's odd.
Mac, send Al Gore the bill when you have to add liquid cooling to your VW's due to "global warming".
:D
According to Car.com it has 4 wheel disk brakes standard on the mid priced V6 model. I don't know about the low end model which does include antilock braking as a standard feature.
I would expect it to have 4 wheel disk brakes but I've been wrong before.
Mark
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My wife has an 04 Camry. I talked to my mechanic about the brake cleaning. He laughed his butt off. Wants to hire the guy who sold you that, he's been a bit off in revenue.
Seems to think That guy is worth a fortune.
Trans Fluid Change. $49.95.
Oil Change, including Filter, and topping off All Fluids 26.95 and few bucks for waste disposal.
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Noob question time... Reading that stuff about K&N air filters, how much difference does upgrading the stock air filter make to HP & Performance?
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you guys that think a tranny flush isn't necessary should drain the 3-4 quarts from the pan and look at it. compare it to a some fresh tranny fluid. regular fluid changes are the life of any piece of equipment.
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Originally posted by Ball
Noob question time... Reading that stuff about K&N air filters, how much difference does upgrading the stock air filter make to HP & Performance?
Well, the HP and performance increase is minimal. Some people swear by K&N's, other's think it's a waste of money. I like them because the fact that they filter better, they were originally enigineered for off-road use in dusty, arid regions, and they are reusable, just simply wash and re-oil them. Also, they seal better too. The paper filter that came with my Z didn't seal very well at all and there was a tremendous about of dirt and dust in the botton of the filter box. The K&N that fits my application actually came with a rubber seal with adhesive on it to help aid in the sealing. Some people like this, others don't. I also use K&N's oil filters. They offer high filtration capablility with higher flow rates than normal filters. They also have a cool "nut" molded into to bottom of the filter for easier removal.
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Originally posted by Halo
Took my 2005 Toyota Camry in for an oil change at 21,952 miles. Four months previously it had 20k service at 19,674 miles.
Service manager said rear brakes needed cleaning ($79.95) and transmission fluid needed changing ($123.88). I thought that was early for both jobs but agreed.
Was I had?
I'm a low mileage driver but keep the Camry out on the highway enough to not let it sludge up.
This dealership has a lifetime guarantee on major components as long as you have car serviced there. One catch for this car is oil change required every 5,000 miles or FOUR months, not six as Toyota requires.
I saw on line that around 2004 Toyota had problems with some engines sludging up because oil was not changed frequently enough in tough driving, e.g., big city commuting and traffic jams. This dealer plan might be a way for Toyota to address the problem without making a big deal of it and impairing confidence in Toyota vehicles.
Whatever, I'm in the four-month oil change cycle, and I don't like it. I've always changed oil at 3,000 miles or six months, whichever came first. Ironically, the Toyota dealer requirement is just about like that.
Interestingly, my wife bought a 2007 Toyota Corolla and there is no dealer requirement for oil changes except at the usual Toyota 5,000 miles or SIX months.
Some second opinions, please, especially from you car mechanics.
To clean the brakes, go get a $2 can of brake cleaner and spray the brakes. Oil change between 4 and 5 thousand miles, learn to do it yourself lest you want to be ripped off. The less you bring your car to any repair shop for any reason, the less you will be ripped.
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Yea, you got ripped. The services weren't unusual but the prices were a lot higher than they should have been.
Cleaning drum brakes involves removing the wheel, removing the drum, spraying in some cleaner, and replacing the drum and wheel. Even at $50/hr, it shouldn't take more than 15 min. They charged you for a full hour of labor plus the price of a full can of brake cleaner that they'll probably use on 20 cars.
For the tranny fluid change, same thing. Even if they dropped the tranny pan, removed and replaced the fluid and filter (which they probably didn't do), you're still talking about 1 hr of labor, $10 worth of fluid, and a $15 filter. $75 tops. But they probably just loosened the tranny pan enough to let most of the fluid leak out, didn't even replace the seal or filter, tightened it back up and topped off the fluid in about 20 minutes. That's about $30-$40 worth of work.
The last time I got ripped on a deal like that, I went back to the dealer and talked to the service manager. I let him know that after doing some research, I felt I was being taken advantage of and that if I didn't get some sort of refund, I would take my business elsewhere. He refunded about 30% of the charges and shook my hand when I left. Although I still do some research before letting anyone do any work on my car, I take my car back to that same dealer whenever I need any major work done.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Yeah, I'd say you got taken. Clean the rear brakes? Never heard that one. Especially since the fronts provide the majority of the stopping power.
A lot of the auto trannies coming out, and it has been this way for a while really, are service-free. I remember seeing that in a Mercedes back in '98 or '99, may have been a W210 but not real sure.
Service free on W210 meant a 120k mile LIFETIME. When the first trannys started grinding to pieces Daimler-Benz changed the lifetime recommendation to 45k oil change interval.
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Originally posted by Ball
Noob question time... Reading that stuff about K&N air filters, how much difference does upgrading the stock air filter make to HP & Performance?
Most of the improvement with K and N is mental. They claim "up to" 10 percent increase in hosepower and economy. If this was true all the manufacturers would be putting them on in the factory (or at least copying them). What they do do is to make your car's intake louder and therefore make you think it's more powerful. However, like any placebo, if you think it works, it does. As far as the tornado thingy goes, anytime you stick something in your car's intake, airflow will be restricted. If you want to improve flow, get a port and polish job, period.
Storch I bet your mechanic gives you a tongue kiss every time you walk in his door. As long as the tranny fluid on the dipstick is bright red I wouldn't consider changing it before 100k. If you are burning it before then you are abusing the vehicle or you have an inferior tranny or both.
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I do my own PM in house. do you tongue kiss your mechanic and service people? what a fuuny thing to type
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To answer some of the questions and comments in this thread:
The 2005 Camry LE is top of the line except for leather seats and sunroof which I don't want. I chose the 4-cylinder because it has plenty of power and better mileage. A bonus is having the same fuel tank for the 6-cylinder, which gives me almost a 600-mile range.
The 4-cylinder has disc brakes in front, drum in back; the 6-cylinder has disc front and back. The 6-cylinder costs quite a bit more; I just didn't need that engine.
Like many of you, I've had a wide range of cars and service experiences over the years. My wife and I went with Toyota this time primarily for reliability. I now can see some of that reliability apparently comes from guarantees that require frequent and sometimes extensive servicing.
I have no problem with that per se as long as the cost is competitive.
I've never had any interest in doing my own maintenance, so I'm at the mercy of mechanics. Like many of you, I still can do research like this thread to stay reasonably informed.
I am a big fan of preventive maintenance. Used to be I had no choice but to scimp on maintenance and run my cars until they begged for care. That sometimes would result in lower costs and longer intervals between service, but undoubtedly contributed to more expensive repairs later.
From things as basic as fixing bicycles, cleaning guns and other mechanical devices, it's obvious mechanical things love fresh fluids. The question is how often to change them. Not easy to find optimum intervals. So we rely on averages and special conditions.
In this case, I figured from the pitch and the bill it was a cash cow for the dealer. The actual procedures and supplies are simple. It's easy if you have a hoist and power tools and some expertise. I don't.
The wheels are off anyway for rotation, the rear brakes look dirty, use a can of something and clean them. Easy if you have that setup or do your own maintenance. Not if you don't.
The car is up on the hoist, the transmission fluid looks a little off, easy to change it if you have that setup or expertise. I don't.
Question becomes how much to charge. Big difference in dealer's idea of reasonable and customer's idea of reasonable.
eagl, I like your approach. The service manager calls to ask how I liked the service. I'm going to tell him I respect their judgment that I needed the service, but I thought it was too expensive. Now I can add that most my associates on my internet news group think I'm being ripped off.
Thanks much, guys, once again you have come through for a dweeb in need! :)
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ball.. would agree that in most cases the K& N is not a big enough difference to notice. I would say that it is like a 2% increase in HP and fuel economy on most vehicles... about the same as switching to a synthetic oil. You might get 1 or two mpg better and maybe 3-10 hp depending on what you started with..
some of the more restrictive factory aircleaners and their plumbing are a different story tho.. you can see more like 7-8% but it involves more than the element.. it is the ducting to the cleaner too.. they are of course.. more expensive.
you might pick up a couple mpg and 5-10 hp (depending on what you started with) if you add the filter and the synthetic... you won't really be able to feel that unless you are sensitive to such things... You will protect your engine better tho and... often.. the K & N sounds a little cooler when you get on it.
On changing automatic trans fluid.... when they used to use good old whale in the oil... you never had to change it... nowdays it is crap. I don't like slush boxes anyway but I would change the fluid and filter at least every 50K... that's what I have done on the only slush box I own.
lazs
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One more comment on choice of service locations. Over the years for service to some 20 vehicles I've owned, I've gone to dealers, gas stations, and the highest rated independent mechanics, and have to conclude that car maintenance is expensive no matter where it's done.
I've had good and bad experiences at all those types of locations.
I also know several people who do their own auto repair, and they have varying results with their own efforts. Doesn't seem to be anything surefire when it comes to vehicle maintenance.
My goal has always been to have cars that do fine locally and can be trusted to drive coast to coast if need be. That's harder than it sounds.
The longest I've kept a car is 15 years, a 1985 Pontiac 6000 LE sedan. Great car, but after about nine years it was reliable enough only for local driving. Never could tell what old part would break next, no matter what you replaced at recommended intervals.
Several places I've read that most cars are designed for 70,000 miles and trucks for 100,000 miles. We've all heard about people who do much better than that, and probably some of you have.
Mechanical things can be sustained a very long time if you have the will and resources to coddle them. Look at B-52 bombers -- more than 50 years old. Imagine the huge cost of maintaining and updating them to last that long.
Everything wears out eventually. I may already have a car that will outlast me. That's a sobering thought. :eek:
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Toyotas have a reputation for lasting a long time; your car should go well past 200,000. The key to keeping vehicle ownership at a reasonable cost is to avoid paying for things that you don’t need. Paying too much is secondary IMO. I’d rather pay an honest guy a good amount than a dishonest guy/place for ripping me off. My father in law takes his Lincoln and Toyota to an independent mechanic who is honest, knowledgeable but a bit pricey. He doesn’t pay for anything that he doesn’t need to. I take my Volvo to an independent mechanic who is honest, knowledgeable and for some reason cheap. I always tip him because he almost always fixes things for mush less than I expect and he knows his stuff well enough that he never misdiagnoses a problem. He even gives me free advice on the things I fix myself. Generally when it comes to tipping I’m not a big tipper, but my mechanic deserves it. Dealerships are nearly organized crime; do whatever it takes to find an honest mechanic.
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Originally posted by Xargos
Never buy another air filter again.
http://www.knfilters.com/
Also you might want to try one of these.
http://www.tornado-fuelsaver.tv/default.asp
There's been several studies done... K&N filters allow significantly more particulates in the motor than regular filters. In other words, they don't do their job as well as even a regular old Fram.
K&N are for the trendy and the wannabes.
Tornado...... put a NOS sticker on your car, that adds 15 HP too. Blahahahaha! :lol
I like them because the fact that they filter better,
Again... no they do not. You can find this info readily on the net.
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my 99 toyota is approaching 240k with nothing other than maintenance. it pulls trailers up 5k GVW routinely. when I change the tranny fluid it is dark and burnt. by draining the pan every oil change and replacing the 3-4 quarts it takes the breakdown in the fluid can be mitigated never the less I change it every 15k or so as I stated. it's pennies and easy to do.
my previous truck was a ford ranger that got clobbered by a tow truck I forget how many miles I had on that but it was over 200k as well.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Yeah, I'd say you got taken. Clean the rear brakes? Never heard that one. Especially since the fronts provide the majority of the stopping power.
That's exactly the reason why the rear brakes need frequent "cleaning" in many cars. The calipers and the pads get stuck because they aren't getting sufficient stress and heat. I guess you really don't need to worry about the rear brakes over there, as you don't have vehicle inspections, and maybe that's why it's an uncommon procedure. Over here the rear brakes actually need to work, and therefore brake "cleaning" is a common procedure.
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if you drive the car regularly there is no real need for a cleaning
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Well unfortunately I have to fail about one car a day(out of abt 30) on average because of a corroded brake disc. Of course the need depends on the enviroment, and how the vehicle is driven, and whether it has a manual or auto transmission.
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Whatever you do. Stay away from PEP boys
Had Breaks and rotors done there a little over a year ago.
A few weeks ago all of a sudden I hear grinding.
chit. breaks are that worn already??
Not even any sqeeking first to indicate they needed changing.
So.. I VERY gingerly limp it back to pep boys. And they take it in to look at it.
Took em a full hour between the time they took it ut of the lot and into the bay and they come back telling me I need all new Breaks again AND new front rotors....again. oh...and a left side tie rod.
Im like WTF in 20+ years of driving Ive never had breaks wear out on me in a year (actually it was almost exactly 14 months)
Not to mention I brought it to another PEP boys a couple months sooner and had them check everything including the breaks since they said they would do it for free and they came back telling me everything was fine.
So we argue back and forth them telling me they only warranty Breaks for a year and the year had passed and basically I was SOL. and they tell me ist gonna be like $600 to fix it.
I say thanks but no thanks saying this entire deal was BS and I was going to bring it to my who is now my regular Mechanic.
Takes em another hour to bring the truck back out .
During the wait A lady who was also waiting stopped me and asked me what the problem was. So I told her.
Now SHE had also been waiting. sjhe brought it in for a basic tuneup and they tried telling her she needed all sorts of crap. Her car was less then 2 years old. and SHE had been waiting since before I even got there to get her car back
so they bring my truck out to the lot again
Then they tried billing me for the inspection which right behind the friggen man was a sign saying they did "FREE BREAK INSPECTIONS"
So we Argued some more about that. Him telling me its only free if they are doing the work. LOL then how is it free? and thats NOT what it says on the sign. More arguing and he drops the inspection charge. and I finally get out of there.
so I bring it to my mechanic and yes I did need new FRONT breaks. but I didnt need rotors or new tie rods. the rotors just needed to be cut.
total bill including an oil change and lube job $250.
Hell. the guy even cleaned up my chrome wheels for me.
This was the second bad experience I've had with Pep boys.
A couplke years ago my oil pressure suddenly dropped to like zero.
I limp it in basically under impulse power to the nearest pep boys (which happened to be the same one. And tell them Im not getting any oil pressure.
they take it in and another hour later they bring it back out telling me they dont do that kind of work there and hit me with a diagnostics bill of $30 which said "No oil pressure"
Well no friggen chit! I knew that much thats why I brought it in to begin with.
Oil pump had crapped out on me obviously. I didnt need to be told what was wrong. I needed it fixed.
Thank god I had dumped in some slick 50 a yea r ealier as no damage was done to the engine.
Same thing happend back in Sept. Seem to be having bad luck with oil pumps dispite regular oil changes.
in any event. Find a local mechanic and stay away fro the chains
what Im betting happend with the breaks is they took it in. changed everything figuring I'd just say "ok" and they would just collect their money. then when I said no. they hadto undo everything.
I know it doesnt take an hour to see if the breaks are bad or not.
all ya gotta do is take off the flipping tire and look at it
A couple weeks later IO get a call from someone taking a survey of my exper9ience with PEP Boys.
I it is impossable to anyone to receive a lower score then I gave.
If it were possible. I would have given it.
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DREDIOCK ,
Perhaps the problem was due to the fact you asked them to fix your Breaks instead of your Brakes. :D
Mark
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Originally posted by mora
That's exactly the reason why the rear brakes need frequent "cleaning" in many cars. The calipers and the pads get stuck because they aren't getting sufficient stress and heat. I guess you really don't need to worry about the rear brakes over there, as you don't have vehicle inspections, and maybe that's why it's an uncommon procedure. Over here the rear brakes actually need to work, and therefore brake "cleaning" is a common procedure.
When I managed the Mercedes repair shop we never had a "clean the rear brakes" procedure. It was done when the rear pads and sensors were replaced. Würth was the only chemical/cleaning products we ever used. Also, I can't say for Finland, but in Texas you'll see the front wheels of all-disc braked cars have far more brake pad powder on them than the rears do, vastly more. And we do have vehicle inspections mandated by the state: 2 years for a new car, 1 year for the rest.
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yeah find an honest independant(snicker).
Cars are becoming way too advanced for most independants.
They call all the time looking to pick the dealerships brain to fix cars in there shop.
The biggest thing I have seen latley, is the independant shops not ordering parts for there customers, but sending them to the dealer to buy the part, while the customers car is in the independants shop. Why?
Because they aren't sure of there diagnosis, and don't want to assume the responsibility of eating a wrong part, they tell the customer to bring back the part (that didn't fix the problem) to the dealer and get your money back. Well they know damn well that we are not going to take back a used electrical item, but the customer doesn't. So Joe customer comes in to return, I inform them that it is not returnable sorry. and that there repair shop knows the policy for returning used electrical parts.
We are picking up more and more customers bercause of this.
Not saying all dealers are on the up and up, but they are not all bad.
I'd say there are way more crooked independant shops than dealers
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Originally posted by Mark Luper
DREDIOCK ,
Perhaps the problem was due to the fact you asked them to fix your Breaks instead of your Brakes. :D
Mark
Dont you have a plain to catch?;)
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Originally posted by Mark Luper
DREDIOCK ,
Perhaps the problem was due to the fact you asked them to fix your Breaks instead of your Brakes. :D
Mark
lolz
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
When I managed the Mercedes repair shop we never had a "clean the rear brakes" procedure. It was done when the rear pads and sensors were replaced. Würth was the only chemical/cleaning products we ever used. Also, I can't say for Finland, but in Texas you'll see the front wheels of all-disc braked cars have far more brake pad powder on them than the rears do, vastly more. And we do have vehicle inspections mandated by the state: 2 years for a new car, 1 year for the rest.
I don't want to start an arguing match, but when I was a mechanic at a Volvo/Renault dealership I had to do it almost daily. Maybe calipers and pads don't get stuck in Texas, but here they do. It happens more often in compact cars, but it happens on bigger cars aswell. Front brakes don't tend to get stuck as easily because they are indeed under much more stress. BTW now that I think of it the the front brakes of G series Chevrolet Vans get stuck quite often.
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mora,
that is a very rare occurance here. the only time I've experienced it was with a ford truck which was seldom used and was caught in a flood. many months after the flood we went to use it and all the breaks as well as the clutch were rusted and fused pads to drums/rotors. the clutch was fused to the flywheel. a complete dis assembly was required.
do you guys use much road salts?
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Wow Dred, I'm not sure you came out any better.
4 Wheel brake job -$99
Oil change & lube - $19.99
They only overcharged you $130.
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Originally posted by storch
do you guys use much road salts?
Yeah, and lots of it!:( That is a major factor. One other factor is that compacts usually have a manual transmission and some drivers(women mostly) don't use their brakes as much as they should. But then again I just recently bought a used delivery van(driven with heavy loads), and it also had one of the inner front brake pads stuck. I simply used a screwdriver to get the pad loose from outside, so I didn't need to do any "cleaning" as they would have done at a dealership.
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Originally posted by storch
my 99 toyota is approaching 240k with nothing other than maintenance. it pulls trailers up 5k GVW routinely. when I change the tranny fluid it is dark and burnt. by draining the pan every oil change and replacing the 3-4 quarts it takes the breakdown in the fluid can be mitigated never the less I change it every 15k or so as I stated. it's pennies and easy to do.
my previous truck was a ford ranger that got clobbered by a tow truck I forget how many miles I had on that but it was over 200k as well.
storch you're right, when the transmission is used for severe duty enough that the fluid gets discolored you absolutely should be servicing the fluid frequently.
One suggestion, though - pressure flushing rigs are pretty common now. There's some considerable sense in going that route rather than dropping the pan.
When you drain the pan, you only get about half the fluid out. Pressure flushing not only flushes out the torque converter, but also the oil cooler and its lines. 100% of the fluid is changed, this is obviously better. Many of the better quality oil change places now offer this service, as well as most transmission shops. Plus, its a more idiot-proof procedure than changing the pan gasket, which often results in leaks due to carelessness and/or improper technique.
The cost is comparable to what a shop would charge for dropping the pan. I recommend you check it out.
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1) yea, unfortunately you got taken on this visit, and prolly several others in the past. I agree with most posts in here on the brake cleaning. Around here we clean them when we replace them.
2) K&N airfilters do increase airflow. However I recommend you look into the micron filtration ratings, as well as the effect of the filter treatment chemical on vehicles equiped w/ a mass air flow sensor. Also, many K&N filter applications are not smog legal, and will void factory warranties should the vehicle show up at a dealer with K&N unit installed.
3) Im fairly sure there are a couple companies that produced smoked lense covers for those camaros, they were real popular in Nevada where tinting windows and such is completely legal.
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Originally posted by culero
storch you're right, when the transmission is used for severe duty enough that the fluid gets discolored you absolutely should be servicing the fluid frequently.
One suggestion, though - pressure flushing rigs are pretty common now. There's some considerable sense in going that route rather than dropping the pan.
When you drain the pan, you only get about half the fluid out. Pressure flushing not only flushes out the torque converter, but also the oil cooler and its lines. 100% of the fluid is changed, this is obviously better. Many of the better quality oil change places now offer this service, as well as most transmission shops. Plus, its a more idiot-proof procedure than changing the pan gasket, which often results in leaks due to carelessness and/or improper technique.
The cost is comparable to what a shop would charge for dropping the pan. I recommend you check it out.
we have a pulsating flusher. we never drop the pans any more. some guys critisize this but I've never seen a clogged screen so we're comfortable with just flushing. we drain the pan without dropping it every time we perform an oil change.
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I just bought a 2003 Pathfinder 4WD SE with 53000 miles - It's a cherry so far, but I may need to have the tranny looked at. It's under warranty. But there are some jerky starts from a dead stop, and the shifting is stiff too. Dealer never said the fluid was replaced - so I need to get the service record from them. But it sounds like at the very least, I need to have the tranny fluid and filter replaced and flushed. What ya think?
(Mine isn't canary yellow either like someone else on the board :))
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Originally posted by rpm
Wow Dred, I'm not sure you came out any better.
4 Wheel brake job -$99
Oil change & lube - $19.99
They only overcharged you $130.
where you getting a 4 wheel brake job for $99 on a Dodge 2500?
I was going to do it myself the first time till I realised Dodge Brakes were designed a bit differently then any other I had ever worked on.
Decided it wasnt worth my aggrivation.
I had bought the Brake pads already and the front pads alone cost me $80
Just for the pads and that was over a year ago.
He typically charges me about $29 for an oil change and lube.
And here in Jersey you cant even get jiffy lube to do an oil change for $19 anymore and havent been for a few years now.
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$80 for front pads?:O Are you buying parts at Neiman-Marcus?
I just did a quick search at O'Reilly.com and found this for a RAM 2500:
O'REILLY/BRAKEBEST - Front Premium Semi Metallic Pads - $24.99 per set
Seriously, there are literally 100's of places in Dallas/Ft.Worth that do 4 wheel brake replacement for $99, including turning the rotors/drums. BTW, any shop that replaces the pads without turning the rotors/drums is a gip joint.
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Originally posted by rpm
$80 for front pads?:O Are you buying parts at Neiman-Marcus?
I just did a quick search at O'Reilly.com and found this for a RAM 2500:
O'REILLY/BRAKEBEST - Front Premium Semi Metallic Pads - $24.99 per set
Seriously, there are literally 100's of places in Dallas/Ft.Worth that do 4 wheel brake replacement for $99, including turning the rotors/drums. BTW, any shop that replaces the pads without turning the rotors/drums is a gip joint.
heh, dont ever break down in jersey.
How much they charge for an oil pump replacement down there?
Just curious
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I brokedown in Connecticut once. Paid $450 for a $200 fuel pump on a Cummins 290. I'm pretty sure I'm still not allowed to return to Yannick after the full blown hissy fit I threw in the parts store. I could have had the part FedEx'ed and saved a ton, but I'm not sure they would deliver to the side of the road on I-95.
Not sure what the parts and labor on replacing an oil pump would cost. I've never had to deal with that particular problem.
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Originally posted by rpm
$80 for front pads?:O Are you buying parts at Neiman-Marcus?
I just did a quick search at O'Reilly.com and found this for a RAM 2500:
O'REILLY/BRAKEBEST - Front Premium Semi Metallic Pads - $24.99 per set
Seriously, there are literally 100's of places in Dallas/Ft.Worth that do 4 wheel brake replacement for $99, including turning the rotors/drums. BTW, any shop that replaces the pads without turning the rotors/drums is a gip joint.
True for alot of cars but not all. We never turned rotors at the Mercedes shop as Mercedes recommended not to. Caliper pad over extenstion leads to blown out calipers and then really expensive repairs. We mic'd the rotors with calipers to see how much metal was left and let the customer know if the rotors needed replacing or not. We did, however, turn rotors on the handfull of American cars we worked on, mostly good customers and our own cars.
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just flushed both trans and both rear ends with synthetic at 750,000 and it only cost 500 usd. dang i sure do like the eatons and the brownie.
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Completely agree Diablo. There is a point where you need to replace rather than turn the rotors/drums. But, there needs to be a fresh surface for the new pads to seat into. What you want to avoid is putting a glazed rotor/drum on a new set of pads. That will greatly reduce brake performance and can increase brake wear.
Keep in mind I'm talking about American cars and trucks. I have almost zero experience with imports. I owned a '74 Audi 100LS and an '80 Datsun pickup. I have no plans to own either of those makes again.
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I don't think "turning of rotors" has been practised here for 20 years. In some exceptions like older US cars it's done sometimes, if replacement is expensive/hard to get.
Besides on newer cars the replacement thickness is many times only 2 mm below the nominal thickness, so turning would be impossible in many cases.