Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: DaChamp687 on February 11, 2007, 09:02:24 PM
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I've been trying my hardest to get use 2 a certain plane and I just cant seem to get in a grove I'll get 1 or 2 sporadic kills then. I got nothing. I seem to not beable to loose E's off my tail I try everything I know and even try stuff my mind made up as I was in a fight for my life. I have flown the La-7,Spit16,190 series. I cant seem to find the right plane. I also have another basic question. I have a hard time working the flaps to help my turning radius any tips or advice or the trainning area would help. I got use 2 the spit and got decent at it but I cant seem to get myself back to where I was. I like the La-7 but I over shoot I'm over shooting less but not being able to turn casue I cant work my flaps correctly isnt helping and I know its throttle control. I also would like to learn some basic moves on areial moves like flat sisccors exct...... I also need some help adjusting my Joystick I got a St-290Pro. I had to reinstall the game I usally play only in the 8vs8 areas. but my movement is very sporadic I cant remeber how to help it in my setup I live in Wisconsin so if anyone could setup and training session with me it would be greatly appreciated.
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Originally posted by DaChamp687
I've been trying my hardest to get use 2 a certain plane and I just cant seem to get in a grove I'll get 1 or 2 sporadic kills then. I got nothing.
This happens to all of us, even those who have been around a long time. Don't get discouraged by it.
I seem to not beable to loose E's off my tail I try everything I know and even try stuff my mind made up as I was in a fight for my life.
This is probably the hardest thing to learn and if the guy on your tail is good the cances of shaking him are slim. The best thing to work toward is to not let him there in the fist place.
I have flown the La-7,Spit16,190 series. I cant seem to find the right plane.
Pick one plane that does what you want to do. The Spit XVI is a very good all arond machine. The FW 190 is best at boom and zoom high speed passes. I can't comment on the LA7 as I've only flown one once.
You might also try a Spit V, Hurricane, A6M, FM2 or any other of the slower, but better turn fighters to see if that suits you better.
Like I said, once you have an idea what style of fighting you like, then you can pick a plane (but stay with it once you do).
I also have another basic question. I have a hard time working the flaps to help my turning radius any tips or advice or the trainning area would help.
At the stage you're at don't worry about flaps. I've been doing this a long time and I still only rarely use flaps. Worry more about throttle control, especially in a Spit XVI because they hang onto energy so well.
Hope that helps. and have fun.
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Thanks for your help I'll try the spit again I've been flying the La-7 But I seem better with the spit thanks alot for your help I'll give it a shot and maybe even record a couple fights and email then to you or anyone willing to evaulate. I also got one more question what can I do to change how my joystick reacts not so viloently.
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I flew the Spit16 for 8 months before I felt like I could really get the most out of it .
When I out turned WingZero in his Ki61 at 18k was a nice feeling .
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I take it by your post that you are pretty new to this type of game. So ill comment like you are and by no means mean it to be little you at all. My skills are limited at best.
Your style of flying will dictate what you fly. If your a BnZ'er then flying the spit V in that way is prolly not the best way to learn what it can do.
If your a TnB'er then flying the 190 isn't gonna work all that well either.
The Spits do everything well. V's and Seafires turn pretty well and can hold thier own with most. Spit 16's are fast agile and roll like there is no tomorrow. They are GREAT BnA'er and can TnB nicley.
LA7's I'll take a pass on. I hate em. Don't fly em. I hate em cause MOST of the time when you see one it will start firing at 800 towards your nose and if they miss...you wont see em again until they are 4 k away and finally turning around to do the same thing. Thats just MY OPINION tho.
190's....Great plane for Angles fighting and speed. The D9 is just plain fast. They have pretty good guns package and are very capable fighters in thiser domain.
Throttle control and use of manuvers is very inportant to shake bogies from your tail. Also being able to fly looking backwards at your enemy is as well. Learning SA takes time and getting shot alot. Mine is not good and I been playing quite a while.
Flaps....I would suggest flying planes that flaps make a larger difference in. I fly the P47D25 quite alot. Flap work is viatal when slow. LEanr how to use those then youll be even BETTER when flying the Spits which have only one setting.
If you just want to learn to live all the time, then a fast plane is your answer. IMHO. Fast rides can make up for not so good SA. Not all te time but alot of the time.
If your a suicidal type and just like to mix it up , then Spits and Hurris are the rides you would enjoy. FM2's A6M's are also fun.
Learning moves to shake bogies are something that trainers could prolly help you out with. I suggest Schatzi from the training corps of AH. They have a place to sign up and usually are very good at teaching you things.
Find some people in the arenas you fly in to fly with will also help you. Take a look at several squads that may be looking for people to join. Try them out and don't just join one to be joining. Your type of playing and fun may not be suited to what they think is fun. A furballer type joining a base capture squad prolly wont work. Same the other way. If Base capture is your thing , then joing a fighter only squad will just leave you frustrated.
Hope this helps you out.
Best of luck and remember the #1 rule......HAVE FUN....its your money and time being spent here....not the other guys. Fly what ya like...and enjoy it.
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Thanks alot I flew alittle today and have found that 1 can hold my own with the Spit. Once I learn a couple aerial moves I should be good. I found that I encoutered apilot with a move that he got me on everytime I dont know how to exactly describe it but I'll give it my best shot. He'll just run straight away and then climb rollover on his back while loseing speed and end up behind me. I got 2 the point were I would see him start his move and I would imidieatly try to make a run for it or skirt out the side so that I could get away it seemed that I couldt shake him. I dunno what he was flying or how he did it but I wasn't mad I just would try diffirent things to try and loose him. I could never shake him I cant recall his name but he was good and he had this move that I could prbly duplicate but still it wouldnt be the same. Anyone know of what this move might be and how to use it properly ?
P.S (I still gotta find out how to adjust my joystick to make my movements more fludi and not erratic)
Thanks for all the help on this topic.
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The move you describe sounds like a simple loop. If he goes up and over, even though he's losing speed on the way up he is converting kinetic energy into latent, or stored energy. The loop at the top will also be tighter than normal given his reduced speed and while you fly level he will gain speed on the way down and end up on your six every time.
Next time try following him, stay on his six. A good way to learn is to chase so follow him through every manouver he makes. This will give you some ideas next time someone's on your six and it will help you get your views down.
Look here http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/ under controlers/set up to get your controllers working properly.
Hope that helps. Have fun.
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Champ,
I am by no stretch of the imagination a good pilot, but anytime you see me in the Training Arena, feel free to ask for a mock (no damage) duel. Until you are able to hook up with a trainer, "learning by doing" is going to be the next best option. Well ... after reading everything on the trainers site as well as netaces.org. Twice.
Also, if you do see a trainer in the TA, don't be afraid to ask them if they are busy. Sometimes they pop in with no trainees scheduled, or their trainee might be a couple min late, plenty of time for a merge or two and a quick critique.
One more thing, then I'll stop rambling ... film EVERYTHING. As soon as your gear gets off the ground, hit ALT-R. Looking back over your films will make a HUGE difference the next time you fly. My #1 comment when I watch myself is "what the hell was I thinking ??????".
Coshy
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Adjust you stik in Options...controls...map controller....advanced..and set the Dead Band and Dampening. Not to mention adjust the sliders will help with nose bouce and smooth it out somewhat.
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LOL sounds like me except I always say what the hell did I do that for or that was a dumb move. I'll start recording more I got another question I found myself flying against some people who were able to out climb me and out run me and well u guessed it I didnt do well any tips ?
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Originally posted by DaChamp687
LOL sounds like me except I always say what the hell did I do that for or that was a dumb move. I'll start recording more I got another question I found myself flying against some people who were able to out climb me and out run me and well u guessed it I didnt do well any tips ?
Hard to say unless you tell us what they did after they out climbed and out-ran you but here's a few basic tips:
1. Don't climb to an enemy unless he's running from you and you are gaining ground on him. Even then it could be dangerous if he has enough seperation and can turn back on you (usually ~3K depending on the plane).
2. If he's just running from you let him run.
3. If he blows by you climbing and you have some alt, turn your tail to him and put it into a shallow dive. He'll probably turn to chase you. Keep increasing your dive angle if possible and as he gets to within about 1-1.5K roll 90 degrees and break hard. At this point you've forced him to bleed off some energy and gained some yourself and you might be able to complete the break turn to come around on his six. If it looks like he's still got more e than you do not complete the break turn but turn away and repeat until you've equalized e-states.
4. If he blows by you climbing and you don't have any alt position yourself directly beneath him on the deck. He'll have to dive stright down to get you and will likely auger but beware, you may have to break if he chops throttle. If he does you've at least equalized e-states and can prepare to fight a fair fight.
5. Most planes who can out-run you can't out-turn you although there are exceptions.
6. A good way to force a faster plane behind you to overshoot is a flat scissors. Use the forum search and I'm sure you'll find something on it.
Hope that helps.
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In a word, Yak9u.
Most fast planes it out turns, most turning planes it outruns.
Most people don't like it because it has a limited clip, and somewhat short fuel endurance. Yet it teaches you good habits. It has excellent visibility, and because of its small size & nimble handling its very hard to hit.
Flown well its capable of landing 2 - 3 kill sorties all day long.
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What happened with some is they were able to barrel roll over the top and get behind me. I know not to climb with them the thing is when they do this what would be the correct move to get out of the situation or atleast give me a better chance to escape.
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In a word, Yak9u.
Second on that. Yak has great visibility all around as well. It is light so it accelerates and climbs fast.
Biggest, or the principle drawback, is the armament. Only has 1 20 mm cannon and two machine guns, with not much ammo.
Fuel wise I never had much problem, I'll usually run out of ammo before fuel on 3/4 of a tank.
You really need to be closer than 200 before you start firing until you get a little better. Rarely will I fire beyond 400.
Not very good against heavy bombers unless you like assists.
In dogfighting two things I found helpful.
1. Never follow the tail. In other words, estimate where the plane will be in 15 seconds, don't follow where it is now. Try this, imagine you don't have ammo and you have to run into and airplane to kill it....if you can run into it, you can then shoot it the seconds before.
2. Avoid 'flat turns', that is turning one way or the other at the same altitude. The high and low yo-yo are a must. Someone turns hard left, don't follow the hard left, go up and over left...then you have altitude and conserved your energy...keep doing that to wear them down.
Good luck.
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"In other words, estimate where the plane will be in 15 seconds, don't follow where it is now. Try this, imagine you don't have ammo and you have to run into and airplane to kill it....if you can run into it, you can then shoot it the seconds before."
and with that a light came on after 9 months...
TY :D
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here ya go ... unzip this and watch in the AH film viewer.
Watch how the tables turn ...
Roospit vs Lambo on the edge (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/301_1171405374_roospit_vs_lambo.zip)
The double loop at the 1st murge is kinda a no no in a spit 5 ... but ah hell I'm crazy enough to attempt it ...and it almost cost me ..
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Originally posted by DaChamp687
I've been trying my hardest to get use 2 a certain plane and I just cant seem to get in a grove I'll get 1 or 2 sporadic kills then. I got nothing. I seem to not beable to loose E's off my tail I try everything I know and even try stuff my mind made up as I was in a fight for my life. I have flown the La-7,Spit16,190 series. I cant seem to find the right plane. I also have another basic question. I have a hard time working the flaps to help my turning radius any tips or advice or the trainning area would help. I got use 2 the spit and got decent at it but I cant seem to get myself back to where I was. I like the La-7 but I over shoot I'm over shooting less but not being able to turn casue I cant work my flaps correctly isnt helping and I know its throttle control. I also would like to learn some basic moves on areial moves like flat sisccors exct...... I also need some help adjusting my Joystick I got a St-290Pro. I had to reinstall the game I usally play only in the 8vs8 areas. but my movement is very sporadic I cant remeber how to help it in my setup I live in Wisconsin so if anyone could setup and training session with me it would be greatly appreciated.
Fly the Spitfire Mk IX until you get a firm grasp on the flight model and able to turn without getting into an accelerated stall. And the Spitfire Mk IX is probably the forgotten champ of the Spitfire family in AH, it's a great all around airplane that is perfect for beginners to cut their teeth on.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by DaChamp687
What happened with some is they were able to barrel roll over the top and get behind me. I know not to climb with them the thing is when they do this what would be the correct move to get out of the situation or atleast give me a better chance to escape.
Barrel roll with them then look for an angle. It's called a rolling scissors.
I know there was just a film posted here in the past few days.
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I've been able to consistanly record 2-6 kill sorties althought if I landed half of them before being shot down a I would do a heck of alot better. I was wondering if u guys have just a couple more tips. I found a couple people that beat me every time. Peekabo and dentin. I also have 1 more Q what would be the best thing to do for someone who stays at a high alt and then capitalises when u get in a dog fight and are concentrating on the guy in front of you.
And Again thanks for all the great tips and help.
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Get a someone to wing with ya ...
And no you cant have my wingie .
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Originally posted by DaChamp687
I also have 1 more Q what would be the best thing to do for someone who stays at a high alt and then capitalises when u get in a dog fight and are concentrating on the guy in front of you.
If you know he's there when you engage the other guy you've got to keep an eye on him while your fighting the other guy. It's called situational awareness or SA.
What you describe is one of the most common tactics for wingmen. One engages you while the other drops onto your six. They'll also "split" you at co-alt, one taking your left, the other your right. Whichever you chase the other takes your six. You have to be aware where both are at all times and break off the first when (actually before) the second drops in. If you focus on the situation rather than the kill you will stay alive and the kills will come to you.
Once you consistantly regognize wing tactics (obviously there are more than the two mentioned above) and have good SA you can survive a two or even three on one and likely take one or all of them down.
Even if you engage in a one on one you should be checking around you throughout the fight. Your opponents friends will have a way of showing up when you'd least like them to.
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I see hm break but when I break I get myself in deeper cause then I usally end up getting tripled or have people just wait for me 2 get shotdown and then they will engage. I know this aint right but I usally try to kill the one in front and the try to crash the second by pull high G moves near the ground or fly thorught the hangers or thoose bridge things. Smarts one dont follow but if u get them low and behind u they try. And I play chicken with water towers or tall object if there creepin down my neck or I use throttle control to make them over shoot. But the high G moves usally land me in a bad spot or crashed myself. Cause most wont get as low as I try.
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Like I mentioned earlier, If you've got a good stick on your six the likelyhood of shaking him is low. In theory, If you've got two or more even averarge sticks on you they should be able to beat you. In practice you can often turn the tables.
You need to maintain a constant series of turns, loops and rolls preferably reversing from one opponent to the other and your moves need to also be unpredictable. Many fall into the trap of always turning or rolling to the left for instance, which becomes a predictable move and sets you up for a snapshot or deflection shot.
You'll need to become really good at taking instantaneous snapshots as your opponents cross your nose. The likelyhood of being able to saddle up on one's six is low and if you find that you're able it's most often because he's setting you up for his friend.
The best advice is not to get yourself into these situations to begin with. Only get in deep enough where your skills can get you out although I realize that it's sometimes unavoidable.
The best way to get good at this is to practice and die. I find myself gleefully diving into a pack of 5-10 enemys alone knowing I'm going to die but also anticipating the adrenalin rush that I'm about to experience and if I can take two or three before I go down I've had a great flight. I've got squad mates and countrymen who question my sanity and hover above the fight or reluctantly join at my urging but I feel it makes me better every time I die doing it and, like I said, its a blast.
Have fun with it. In time the practice will teach you survival.
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This is my final question I think. If u have a e on your six in the Spit 16 would u A). Use high G's manevurs and turns to make him over shoot B). Climb or C).use speed and try to get some space to make ur moves.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Like I mentioned earlier, If you've got a good stick on your six the likelyhood of shaking him is low. In theory, If you've got two or more even averarge sticks on you they should be able to beat you. In practice you can often turn the tables.
You need to maintain a constant series of turns, loops and rolls preferably reversing from one opponent to the other and your moves need to also be unpredictable. Many fall into the trap of always turning or rolling to the left for instance, which becomes a predictable move and sets you up for a snapshot or deflection shot.
You'll need to become really good at taking instantaneous snapshots as your opponents cross your nose. The likelyhood of being able to saddle up on one's six is low and if you find that you're able it's most often because he's setting you up for his friend.
The best advice is not to get yourself into these situations to begin with. Only get in deep enough where your skills can get you out although I realize that it's sometimes unavoidable.
The best way to get good at this is to practice and die. I find myself gleefully diving into a pack of 5-10 enemys alone knowing I'm going to die but also anticipating the adrenalin rush that I'm about to experience and if I can take two or three before I go down I've had a great flight. I've got squad mates and countrymen who question my sanity and hover above the fight or reluctantly join at my urging but I feel it makes me better every time I die doing it and, like I said, its a blast.
Have fun with it. In time the practice will teach you survival.
I do that often and usally get 1 and I have alotta fun I only get frustrated when it seem noone is fight except and me Vs 7 people in a FFA game if I see a group of people I'll gladly join in and prbly get shot down but when everyone is spread out and avoiding everyone is when I get frustrated/
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Originally posted by DaChamp687
This is my final question I think. If u have a e on your six in the Spit 16 would u A). Use high G's manevurs and turns to make him over shoot B). Climb or C).use speed and try to get some space to make ur moves.
D). None of the above.
Most likely I would roll 90 degrees, pull into a reasonably tight turn (WEP off and just before the stall buzzer sounds but this will vary by my judgment of my opponents E), continue my turn into a high yo-yo (or a low yo-yo if alt and E states dictate) and drop (or rise) on(to) his six.
The alternate to this (and also most likely to survive if using) is to roll 90 degrees, break as above and, when he goes by, level out or dive slightly in a straight line away from him (WEP on) seperating for a later turn (a rinse and repeat if he's got more E; a break turn for a merge if he doesn't). The advantage in this move is that you're already straight and level while your opponent has to turn 180 degrees, losing E while you accelerate away.
Hope that helps.
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Thanks for all the help on this topic guys it has helped me inmprove by miles.
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I have been runnin into countless numbers of Zero's lately and I do okay against them but anyone got any tips that would give me the edge to come out on top. And I've also been told that if u can get one 2 dive with u at high speed they stiffen up quickly and that u can use that to ur advantage is that tip accurate or is there something else I should try ?
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
The best way to get good at this is to practice and die.
Ain't that the truth. Flying the best kites in the planeset wont teach you much.
Yet to be mentioned is the F6... this baby will teach you angles, boom and zoom as well as flap use.
But you gotta die .. a lot .. then you begin to get an instinct for certain situations.
Biggest killer of all is situational awareness, again can't really be taught part from never fly straight in combat and if your in on a con chances are someone's in on you!
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That helps alittle but I can alrdy consistainly lnad 2-6kill sorties all day long in my Spit16. Its one fine machine but for some reason I've followed tips from other topics about zeros and I try to out cilmb then and they keep up with me long enough to damage me bad or hurt me enough to float back to earth.
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Originally posted by DaChamp687
That helps alittle but I can alrdy consistainly lnad 2-6kill sorties all day long in my Spit16. Its one fine machine but for some reason I've followed tips from other topics about zeros and I try to out cilmb then and they keep up with me long enough to damage me bad or hurt me enough to float back to earth.
A Zeke will out-turn a Spit XVI even with flaps out on the XVI. It's the only advantage that it has, but a powerful one if you bleed off E and play it's game. It's also got cannons which can cause critical or fatal damage at a distance.
On the downside it's slow, doesn't climb particularily well and is fragile.
While most consider the Spit XVI to be a turn fighter itself, it's equally comfortable in a B'n'Z role which is part of what makes it such a great plane but, it's not the BEST at anything and in this case the Zeke is (turnfighting), therefore, you have to use the other attributes of the Spit XVI to defeat your opponent (expoit his weaknesses) while not playing into his strengths.
This brings up the old addage; know your plane and your enemy's then use your strengths to exploit his weaknesses.
That said, and to answer your question, the best way I've found to defeat a Zeke in a XVI is by slashing attacks from, preferably, an altitude advantage while maintaning E the entire time and forcing him into evasives to gradually burn his E off. Essentially, your playing B'n'Z against a turn fighter but beware the HO or forward deflection shot from those cannons. Sometimes a non-firing pass out of range is as useful as a firing pass in bleeding his E.
If you're lucky you may drag him into a rope and be able to turn back on him as he stalls but you have to maintain enough E to be able to accelerate away from him in a climb.
Hope that helps.
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zeros and I try to out cilmb
Try this trick , when you are trying to "outclimb" your zero , get the right angle you want and then hit "auto angle" you'll be climbing with perfect trim then .
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Last night before u guys posted(btw thanks for the help) I was BnZ'em and had good sucsess I use allitude and climbing to my advantage and got I think 3 out fo 4 to try and climb with me and they stalled out giveing a easy kill the other was a good pilot he stayed low and after while I got him I used speed to get distance from him and climbed above him for a quick divng from above shot. Thanks for all the help I no longer frustrate myself and have great fun playin. :)
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Originally posted by DaChamp687
Last night before u guys posted(btw thanks for the help) I was BnZ'em and had good sucsess I use allitude and climbing to my advantage and got I think 3 out fo 4 to try and climb with me and they stalled out giveing a easy kill the other was a good pilot he stayed low and after while I got him I used speed to get distance from him and climbed above him for a quick divng from above shot. Thanks for all the help I no longer frustrate myself and have great fun playin. :)
DaChamp,
Glad to hear you figured it out on your own. It means that you're getting used to your plane and starting to recognize opponent strengths and weaknesses.
You'll continue to get better at this but there's a big catalog of planes out there that you'll have to get used to fighing against. Don't get discouraged when one beats you, just stop, try to figure out what he did to beat you and what you might have been able to do to beat him or at least to avoid what he did to you. Even once you've figured all that out you're going to run into the guys who can do seemingly magical things with a plane that you've never seen anyone else do. These are the aces who really know their plane and how it responds in every potential ACM and they usually also know your plane better than you.
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I got another question I use the Spit 16 and I mix it up useung Bn'Z and Tn'B if theres a plane above me whats the best way to get it 2 come down ?
Also when fighting the Japenese planes they climb really high off the runway and by the time I see them there above me (keep in mind this is a Team Match so theres plenty of time for them 2 climb) and I dont wanna
Tn'B with them so any help with this would be greatly appreciated.
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The best way to get planes above to come down.
Is to fly straight and level and pretend that you are AFK. Obviously this will give them a high rear 6 position but bust your moves just before they get in gun range.
Just make sure you keep an eye on them at all times.
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K that sound easy enough way for it 2 work. But is there any special move I could use or just any ? Also since they had 2 dive for me they will have more E and speed if I force them 2 overshoot and then they will climb back up putting us in the same postion again. And how do I go about setting my convergence I've read what convergence is and I understand it but I was wondering where I go 2 set it.
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Originally posted by DaChamp687
. And how do I go about setting my convergence I've read what convergence is and I understand it but I was wondering where I go 2 set it.
Select your plane in hangar, then click on the button "set convergence". It's located in the upper right corner on your clipboard.
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K thank you. Any suggestion for the Spit 16
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Originally posted by DaChamp687
K that sound easy enough way for it 2 work. But is there any special move I could use or just any ? Also since they had 2 dive for me they will have more E and speed if I force them 2 overshoot and then they will climb back up putting us in the same postion again.
I'm not exactly sure about this and I rarely use it myself as this situation rarely seems to happen to me but you might try a barrel-roll defense (again try a search in this forum). My theory here is that you'll force your opponent into a high-bleed manouver to track you while you maintain E in a forward direction. As he moves through and back into his climb having bled E, you will have lost little and be able to continue in your original direction gaining seperation. On his next attempt he will have to dive and run after you, bleeding even more E and helping you to equalize e-states.
The alternate to this I've already pointed out is to hit the deck and get yourself directly below him, forcing him to either cut throttle or auger trying to get you.
As to your question regarding convergences I set mine to 650 in the Spit XVI but most would recommend someting between 250 and 400. You'll just have to try a few different settings and see which works best for you.