Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: devil956 on February 12, 2007, 01:06:48 AM

Title: Spitifres
Post by: devil956 on February 12, 2007, 01:06:48 AM
Ok,the spitfire is overmodeled(said by many) and im wondering if it would be hard to correct that overmodeling, so people will stop saying you are a noob just for being in any bloody spitfire.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: SuperDud on February 12, 2007, 01:09:34 AM
Who cares what they say? I'm going to fly it all the time now just to annoy people.
Title: Re: Spitifres
Post by: Stoney74 on February 12, 2007, 01:46:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by devil956
Ok,the spitfire is overmodeled(said by many) and im wondering if it would be hard to correct that overmodeling, so people will stop saying you are a noob just for being in any bloody spitfire.


Don't listen to what folks say.  If you want to fly the Spit, fly the Spit.  Besides, by what basis can people say its "overmodeled"?

Enjoy the game.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Guppy35 on February 12, 2007, 01:46:29 AM
Not a single player in the game has actually flown a real Spitfire that I know of.

Until we get a Spitfire pilot who has flown combat to tell us it's wrong, I'm gonna trust that HTC has done the best they can.

As for people complaining.  let em whine.  If you are having fun, who cares?

Fly Spits if you want, and don't apologize for it :)
Title: Re: Spitifres
Post by: Oleg on February 12, 2007, 01:49:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by devil956
im wondering if it would be hard to correct that overmodeling, so people will stop saying you are a noob just for being in any bloody spitfire.


The problem they are not overmodeled. Ppl whine on spits because its far easier to accuse spits as overmodeled than to admit his own loosy skills and learn to fight it.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Atoon on February 12, 2007, 02:14:11 AM
Yea, im sure the AH flight model of all the spit models is spot on. After all, it's not like a game would have any benefit from making certain models alot easier to fly & kill in. That would be like offering a form of leverage for the NEWBIES to combat the LEARNING CURVE.

Leverage for newbies to combat the learning curve-


Leverage for newbies to combat the learning curve-



Leverage for newbies to combat the learning curve-



Leverage for newbies to combat the learning curve-



Is there an echo in here?
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Serenity on February 12, 2007, 02:32:56 AM
Ignore them. As long as you steer clear the XVI, all the other planes seem pretty accurate. If you like speed, fly the IX. If you like to turn, fly the V. If you like a challenge, fly the I. But ignore the dweeb moniker in any spitfire ('cept the XVI. And Im NOT going to answer to WHY I feel the XVI is bugged)
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Guppy35 on February 12, 2007, 02:35:34 AM
Atoon.  Just to put it in perspective.  While in England a couple years ago i was talking to a guy who flies Spits currently.

His comment on the Spit was that it's too easy to fly.  They were flying a Hurricane and Spit V to Malta for an airshow and the two pilots took turns on the two planes because the Hurricane was the bigger challenge to fly.

He said that they probably should have started new pilots on Spits and then moved them on to T-6s and such.

What an amazing testement to the designer of the Spit that he could create such a great combat fighter yet give it such ease of handling that newbie Spit pilots could have a chance to survive in it as well.

Don't blame the Spit for being the plane it is.  And quit with the game somehow made one plane easier so newbies could get some confidence.

Your combat Spit flight time is how much? :)
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Nilsen on February 12, 2007, 02:39:40 AM
Spits are excellent targets. Up them as much as you like and dont bother with what others say about it.

Im pretty sure that after a while you will find more challenging and fun planes to  fly. :)
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Serenity on February 12, 2007, 02:47:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Atoon.  Just to put it in perspective.  While in England a couple years ago i was talking to a guy who flies Spits currently.

His comment on the Spit was that it's too easy to fly.  They were flying a Hurricane and Spit V to Malta for an airshow and the two pilots took turns on the two planes because the Hurricane was the bigger challenge to fly.

He said that they probably should have started new pilots on Spits and then moved them on to T-6s and such.

What an amazing testement to the designer of the Spit that he could create such a great combat fighter yet give it such ease of handling that newbie Spit pilots could have a chance to survive in it as well.

Don't blame the Spit for being the plane it is.  And quit with the game somehow made one plane easier so newbies could get some confidence.

Your combat Spit flight time is how much? :)


In flight, sure, but Ive always heard they could be widowmakers on take-off and landing, both because they had a tendency to strike the prop, and with that big nose it was hard to see. I beleive the spitfire is overmodeled in that I have never had a prop strike on takeoff or landing ;)
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Karnak on February 12, 2007, 02:52:38 AM
We did have one Spitfire pilot from New Zealand try AH a few years back.  He said the AH Spitfire was mushy and harder to control than the real one was.  He said it felt like it was worn out.

So there you have it, the AH Spitfires are undermodeled according to a guy who flew real Spitfires in real combat.


(I have no idea how accurate his memories were or if he had enough stick time in AH to really get a feel for it.  I am just posting a paraphrase of what a real Spit pilot said about AH)
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Guppy35 on February 12, 2007, 02:58:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Serenity
In flight, sure, but Ive always heard they could be widowmakers on take-off and landing, both because they had a tendency to strike the prop, and with that big nose it was hard to see. I beleive the spitfire is overmodeled in that I have never had a prop strike on takeoff or landing ;)


And you've heard this where?  What mark of Spit they talking about etc?

It's that kind of generalized "I heard somewhere" stuff that drives me up the wall.

You base your comments on the modeling on how much actual Spitfire time? :)
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Serenity on February 12, 2007, 03:07:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
And you've heard this where?  What mark of Spit they talking about etc?

It's that kind of generalized "I heard somewhere" stuff that drives me up the wall.

You base your comments on the modeling on how much actual Spitfire time? :)


It was a joke. But... Spitfires mk I and II, heard from:

Spitfire Ace part 1
"Fly for your life" stated by spitfire pilot Robert Stanford Tuck
Top Ten: Fighters (Though that show is woefully inacurate)
AX-something (A world war two newsreel produced in America about the modern RAF aircraft)

So yeah, it is hard to take off because it has such a large prop. New pilots had a tendency to push the nose over a bit too far and strike the prop. Didnt kill ya, just abbreviated your flight. And the nose thing was notorious. Tuck talked about how he was told by the original test pilot to apply a bit of right rudder on final so as to keep the airfield in view. Then at the last second, to straighten out and touch down. So yeah, its a joke but backed by fact. ['gangsta' voice] What now?!? ['gangsta' voice] :blows raspberry  ;)
Title: Spitifres
Post by: kilz on February 12, 2007, 03:21:03 AM
OMG this post is funny. first off dont worry about what other people say. i still fly my spit16 every day. and for the most i out do alot of others and they get mad and say spit dweeb learn a harder plane that aint for noobs so i come back in a P51-b pony dweeb learn something harder so i come back in a F4U1a what they say then F4u1as are way over modeled and you should not do 400 in that thing. they say it about everything ITS YOUR 14.95 ENJOY IT ANY WAY YOU WANT TO.

and as far as the spits yes its true some spits knocked out prop on take off and landing but not enough to make them stop rolling them out of the factory. if HTC did this then who would enjoy them. ITS A GAME NOT REAL LIFE. and i would also agree on the spits are undermodeled not all of them but some of them i think the Spit1 is good spitV undermodeled
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Guppy35 on February 12, 2007, 03:23:53 AM
Quoting current high time Spitfire pilot Charles Brown.

"The Spitfire Mk V is undoubtedly the most delightful, capable and yet utterly benign aircraft that I have ever flown.  All Spitfires speak to you through the controls, but none more then this aircraft.  It is utterly predictable in its handling and positively inspires me with confidence.  Even the take off and landing are easy compared to other aircraft of the same configuration, power and weight."

Tuck got his first flights in Spit Is with two bladed, fixed pitch props.  Take offs were a bit different with a prop that had to handle both take off and cruise and high speed flight.

We're blessed with variable pitch props in AH that adjust to take the power of the engine as needed for the task at hand.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: 1K3 on February 12, 2007, 03:36:05 AM
hmmm if spitfire was *that* maneuverable then how come the Japanese Navy massacred so many spit Vs in PAC.  Spits pilots tried their proven TnB tactics (TM) against the Zeros and failed spetacularly.   Spitfires had the HIGHEST lost rate in the Pacific front.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: SuperDud on February 12, 2007, 03:58:37 AM
Because they aren't more maneuverable as a zero... as they found out in real life just like you said:aok
Title: Spitifres
Post by: FBplmmr on February 12, 2007, 05:05:22 AM
ok so we have established that the spit is not over modeled... now we know its just easy to fly.


so the guys who get kills in a spit aren't really good pilots ... they are just flying an easy plane!:D








:rofl
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Trukk on February 12, 2007, 05:08:07 AM
In every WWII flight sim MMOG I've flown in, people have complained about the Spitfire being uber or over modeled.  It was a great aircraft whose flight characteristics also happen to be very good for flight sim games where guys don't fly to stay alive (like in real life) but instead fly for action (and then wonder why their experience doesn't match real life).

Regarding the Pacific, even Hurricanes suffered heavy losses when they tried to TnB with Zeros and Oscars, and it took them awhile to un-learn that (which works so well against German aircraft) and switch to BnZ.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Serenity on February 12, 2007, 05:08:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Quoting current high time Spitfire pilot Charles Brown.

"The Spitfire Mk V is undoubtedly the most delightful, capable and yet utterly benign aircraft that I have ever flown.  All Spitfires speak to you through the controls, but none more then this aircraft.  It is utterly predictable in its handling and positively inspires me with confidence.  Even the take off and landing are easy compared to other aircraft of the same configuration, power and weight."

Tuck got his first flights in Spit Is with two bladed, fixed pitch props.  Take offs were a bit different with a prop that had to handle both take off and cruise and high speed flight.

We're blessed with variable pitch props in AH that adjust to take the power of the engine as needed for the task at hand.


lol. True, but its still not modelled right then! Even the Spitfire mk I takes off WAY to easily I think! But really, even with fixed and variable pitch, the length of the prop blades is the same is it not? The difficulty I mention wasnt cause by any control problem or anything, its just a long prop you need to get used to. Same for the nose issue.

(For the benefit of those who are just LOOKING for something to shout at me for, this post, and the others above it are jokes and are NOT meant to be taken seriously. Now that IK3 is here I feel the need to post this disclaimer)
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Nilsen on February 12, 2007, 06:14:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by FBplmmr
so the guys who get kills in a spit aren't really good pilots ... they are just flying an easy plane!


Its a good plane to fly for the beginner yes. Just make sure you move on to other planes when your 2 week trial is done ;)
Title: Spitifres
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on February 12, 2007, 06:18:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Atoon.  Just to put it in perspective.  While in England a couple years ago i was talking to a guy who flies Spits currently.

His comment on the Spit was that it's too easy to fly.  They were flying a Hurricane and Spit V to Malta for an airshow and the two pilots took turns on the two planes because the Hurricane was the bigger challenge to fly.

He said that they probably should have started new pilots on Spits and then moved them on to T-6s and such.

What an amazing testement to the designer of the Spit that he could create such a great combat fighter yet give it such ease of handling that newbie Spit pilots could have a chance to survive in it as well.

Don't blame the Spit for being the plane it is.  And quit with the game somehow made one plane easier so newbies could get some confidence.

Your combat Spit flight time is how much? :)


This matches finnish ww2 time reports spot on - they said the Hurricane was a complete dog to fly and the brewster flew circles around it. Same was told about spitfire at low altitudes with the difference that the spit had extremely good characteristics at high altitude.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Kweassa on February 12, 2007, 06:32:11 AM
Quote
lol. True, but its still not modelled right then! Even the Spitfire mk I takes off WAY to easily I think! But really, even with fixed and variable pitch, the length of the prop blades is the same is it not? The difficulty I mention wasnt cause by any control problem or anything, its just a long prop you need to get used to. Same for the nose issue.


 And when was the last time you ever took off in a Spit Mk.I to base such claims of overmodelling on?

Quote
(For the benefit of those who are just LOOKING for something to shout at me for, this post, and the others above it are jokes and are NOT meant to be taken seriously. Now that IK3 is here I feel the need to post this disclaimer)


 That's quite convenient, isn't it? Talk whatever you want, and if somebody questions it, it suddenly becomes a joke.

 Perhaps if you ever took the time to actually provide back-up material for every thing you say here, people won't be so much tempted to start shouting at you for being a clueless moron. Normally, people don't demand proof for everything one says because there is a certain trust on common logic shared by people - such as "I will not go claim certain things without something to prove myself right". Except you've walked over that boundary of trust long ago, and nothing ever you say will ever be treated with any kind of seriousness ever again.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: rogerdee on February 12, 2007, 07:25:51 AM
doesnt this all sound like the wines that came along when the ki84 came out?

ki84 cam out everyone moaned then everyone flew it then the spitfires got remodeled and the spoit 16 came and everyonewent to the spit!!!!!

 next plane remodeled or added will get the same responce
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Benny Moore on February 12, 2007, 07:33:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
We did have one Spitfire pilot from New Zealand try AH a few years back.  He said the AH Spitfire was mushy and harder to control than the real one was.  He said it felt like it was worn out.

So there you have it, the AH Spitfires are undermodeled according to a guy who flew real Spitfires in real combat.


(I have no idea how accurate his memories were or if he had enough stick time in AH to really get a feel for it.  I am just posting a paraphrase of what a real Spit pilot said about AH)


Any airplane in any simulator is going to feel "mushy and harder to control" than the real thing.  The problem isn't so much the software as much as the hardware.  A gaming joystick will always be far less accurate than a real aircraft stick or yoke.  Trust me, the difference is like that between keyboard and gaming joystick.  A real airplane yoke is as precise as your car's steering wheel.  There's no overcompensation and no oscillation.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: ColKLink on February 12, 2007, 08:46:52 AM
I will be the 1st to admit i hate  running into a spitfire, specially if I know hes not a newb. In the next breath i'll say the spit wasnt ww2's top of the line fighter for nothing, they were good, ask any german 109 pilot, if you can find one.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: hubsonfire on February 12, 2007, 08:49:54 AM
No 2 planes are modelled exactly alike, so one always has to be harder to fly, and one easier, correct? If we take out or "fix" every plane that's easier to fly than another, won't we wind up with just one plane?
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Bronk on February 12, 2007, 12:14:11 PM
See Rules #4, #5
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Major Biggles on February 12, 2007, 12:35:24 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Flatbar on February 12, 2007, 12:43:59 PM
I've been here since beta3, flown just about every model of fighter but maybe not all variants. I made a point of staying away from flying spits because of this silly dweeb moniker that spit fliers seem to attract.

I tried the Spit16 last week I'm having more fun than I've had in quite a while here.

The bottom line is that you are here to have fun while pretending to be a WWII pilot, find out how you have fun here and damn the trash talkers. Fly what you want and have fun killing the opposition and relish in their cries of 'Spit Dweeb' and wear that moniker with pride knowing that you are having fun on your terms, they are just fuel for that fun.


Then learn how to fly some other cartoon plane, see if you can capture the moniker of NiKi Dweeb, LaLa Dweeb, or even a Pony Dweeb. Just remember, those calling you a dweeb are probably dead by your pretend dweeby guns and are whining about it, all the while you had fun!
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Hap on February 12, 2007, 12:48:08 PM
Devil,

9/10ths in here are insincere.

Experience will tell you the other 1/10 are.

All the Best,

hap
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Atoon on February 12, 2007, 01:21:35 PM
I stopped flyiing spits in my first year of AH, some 5 years ago. I guess my skills improved in my first year to the point that flyin such an easy plane was of no significant challenge.


Maybe thats it- plain and simple-


Flying and killing in a spit is of no particular challenge= Stated several times in this thread by both virtual & actual pilots.

Its OK to get better and move on to more challenging planes-
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Atoon on February 12, 2007, 07:13:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Major Biggles
See Rule #4


giggles- you dont know anything about me, do you even know my in game ID? NOOB? Maybe to some, only been playin 5 years or so, not counting the 3 years in AW.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: 2bighorn on February 12, 2007, 07:36:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
Tuck got his first flights in Spit Is with two bladed, fixed pitch props.
IIRC, spit Is had two pitch settings, one for take-off and one for the flight

Quote
Originally posted by Guppy35
with a prop that had to handle both take off and cruise and high speed flight.
Every prop does that, some are a bit better at it tho :aok
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 12, 2007, 07:39:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Serenity
It was a joke. But... Spitfires mk I and II, heard from:

Spitfire Ace part 1
"Fly for your life" stated by spitfire pilot Robert Stanford Tuck
Top Ten: Fighters (Though that show is woefully inacurate)
AX-something (A world war two newsreel produced in America about the modern RAF aircraft)

So yeah, it is hard to take off because it has such a large prop. New pilots had a tendency to push the nose over a bit too far and strike the prop. Didnt kill ya, just abbreviated your flight. And the nose thing was notorious. Tuck talked about how he was told by the original test pilot to apply a bit of right rudder on final so as to keep the airfield in view. Then at the last second, to straighten out and touch down. So yeah, its a joke but backed by fact. ['gangsta' voice] What now?!? ['gangsta' voice] :blows raspberry  ;)



you didn't post any facts...


ack-ack
Title: Spitifres
Post by: RumbleB on February 12, 2007, 07:49:05 PM
How many framerates did spit pilots get in combat?
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Atoon on February 13, 2007, 02:18:36 PM
so far this camp, I have killed 10 spits for evry 1 that has killed me. Oh yea- I'm a big NOOB!:rofl
Title: Spitifres
Post by: SkyRock on February 13, 2007, 03:31:51 PM
Spits are a great plane to learn in as well as hunt in.  No disrespect should be given to a pilot because of his aircraft.  I usually am talking about the way the guy flies when I say la7 dweeb or spit dweeb or pony dweeb or dora dweeb! Hell, some peeps can make an F4U look bad by the way they fly it!  If I see a spit closing on my 6 and I am in an F4U-1, I think one thing.............dinner is SERVED!
:aok
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Masherbrum on February 13, 2007, 03:36:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
Spits are excellent targets. Up them as much as you like and dont bother with what others say about it.

Im pretty sure that after a while you will find more challenging and fun planes to  fly. :)


Next time yer on, I'll roll a Spit 1 and we'll test your "theory".  :)   I'll be the one landing kills in it, in the LWA.  

Spit 1 is my fav, then the 8.   Spit 1 is great because of the folks who get cocky thinking a Spit 1 is an "easy kill" and in the process get their ego cut.

4 kills to none in a Spit 1
12 kills to none in a Ki 61

All of which were obtained in the LWA in around 10 hops with no rearms and not much time.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: pluck on February 13, 2007, 03:42:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
No 2 planes are modelled exactly alike, so one always has to be harder to fly, and one easier, correct? If we take out or "fix" every plane that's easier to fly than another, won't we wind up with just one plane?

yep.

some just need to worry less about what everyone else is flying, and just more about what they enjoy flying.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: FX1 on February 13, 2007, 04:09:34 PM
My Spit 16 #1 favorite food is uber AH god pilots and their chitty rides.

I would say that the f4u is a better ride today than the spits.. So i fly the HOG for the last couple of months. One downer is the climb of the hog so when i up a capped field i fly my 16 to kill everyone..
Title: Spitfires
Post by: Stampf on February 13, 2007, 04:09:49 PM
Spitfires were good fighters in WWII.  Likewise they should be, and are good fighters in AH.

Certainly not Uber, and fun to fight.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: SkyRock on February 13, 2007, 04:12:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FX1
My Spit 16 #1 favorite food is uber AH god pilots and their chitty rides.

I would say that the f4u is a better ride today than the spits.. So i fly the HOG for the last couple of months. One downer is the climb of the hog so when i up a capped field i fly my 16 to kill everyone..

yup, but don't underestimate it's E retention, it can hang with the best!  :aok
Title: Spitifres
Post by: FX1 on February 13, 2007, 04:21:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
Spits are a great plane to learn in as well as hunt in.  No disrespect should be given to a pilot because of his aircraft.  I usually am talking about the way the guy flies when I say la7 dweeb or spit dweeb or pony dweeb or dora dweeb! Hell, some peeps can make an F4U look bad by the way they fly it!  If I see a spit closing on my 6 and I am in an F4U-1, I think one thing.............dinner is SERVED!
:aok


Depends on the pilot.. Sky give me your 6 in a 16 and i will ride that bull all day long (:

One day you told me that the Hog was the best fighter nose down. You were 100% correct about that.

I will tell you that the 16 is the best plane nose up.

Only plane that would make for a good fight is the K4 but that one cannon can get you in trouble.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: SkyRock on February 14, 2007, 01:26:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by FX1
Depends on the pilot.. Sky give me your 6 in a 16 and i will ride that bull all day long (:

One day you told me that the Hog was the best fighter nose down. You were 100% correct about that.

I will tell you that the 16 is the best plane nose up.

Only plane that would make for a good fight is the K4 but that one cannon can get you in trouble.

If you're on my 6 and I am going 400mph, you are dead my friend, if you try to follow.  The only thing you could do is ride your E on through til you could go vert!  If you tried to follow, you would die, no matter what spit your in!:aok
Mark
Title: Spitifres
Post by: crockett on February 14, 2007, 01:57:24 PM
You can complain all you want about the spit being over modeled from what I've seen of pilot interviews it was a very well handling plane. So why should HT make it worse just because it was a great handling plane in real life?

The spit also has it's weakness it's a easy target to shoot down if you get your guns on it.. It doesn't stand a chance in collisions meanwhile many other planes can easily land after a collision that would have taken down a spit. If someone pings you it doesn't hold up so well either, the wings fall of a spit as faster than any other plane I've seen.

Another thing I can say about most of the spits, is the guns are somewhat weak. So for every advantage it has disadvantages. As a side note I've been flying the spit 9 most of the time lately and while it may be a good plane, there are many that can out do it in many diffrent ways.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: FX1 on February 14, 2007, 02:03:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SkyRock
If you're on my 6 and I am going 400mph, you are dead my friend, if you try to follow.  The only thing you could do is ride your E on through til you could go vert!  If you tried to follow, you would die, no matter what spit your in!:aok
Mark



I dont go over 300mph (:
Title: Spitifres
Post by: SkyRock on February 14, 2007, 04:16:49 PM
Hard to beat a 300 mph spit!  :) Hogs can only do soo much with a spit under 300 with a good stick piloting it!
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 14, 2007, 05:06:27 PM
Keep the Spitfire out of medium speed range when fighting it.  Best way to fight one.

And I wouldn't say the Spitfire XVI is the best vertical fighter in the game either.  P-38J/L is still better and handles a lot better at low/stall speeds than the Spitfire XVI.


ack-ack
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Benny Moore on February 14, 2007, 05:35:04 PM
How can the P-38 be the better vertical fighter when the Spitfire Sixteen is faster and climbs better?  You'd better have a massive energy advantage, or you're screwed if the Spitfire pilot knows his ship.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: crockett on February 14, 2007, 05:41:18 PM
Seems most of the gripes against spits are mainly the spit 16. If so why do so many act as if any spit is a gravy ride?

I'd agree with AckAck on the 38 being much better vert fighter than a spit 16. I'd go back to flying the 38 if I could turn the darn thing. :rolleyes:
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Atoon on February 14, 2007, 10:16:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by crockett
You can complain all you want about the spit being over modeled from what I've seen of pilot interviews it was a very well handling plane. So why should HT make it worse just because it was a great handling plane in real life?

The spit also has it's weakness it's a easy target to shoot down if you get your guns on it.. It doesn't stand a chance in collisions meanwhile many other planes can easily land after a collision that would have taken down a spit. If someone pings you it doesn't hold up so well either, the wings fall of a spit as faster than any other plane I've seen.

Another thing I can say about most of the spits, is the guns are somewhat weak. So for every advantage it has disadvantages. As a side note I've been flying the spit 9 most of the time lately and while it may be a good plane, there are many that can out do it in many diffrent ways.


This is truely a sad day. Somone has actually considered a planes ability to survive a collision in their overall evaluation.

:huh
Title: Spitifres
Post by: crockett on February 14, 2007, 10:19:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Atoon
This is truely a sad day. Somone has actually considered a planes ability to survive a collision in their overall evaluation.

:huh


Using it as a simple example.. like it or not when furballing (and when fighting the typical LA-7 pilot ) collisions are a fact of the game. So being able to land after one has it's advantages.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Atoon on February 15, 2007, 01:20:22 AM
I understand the circumstances, I guess its just a sad truth that you need to consider a planes collision survivability in todays AH.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 15, 2007, 03:11:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Benny Moore
How can the P-38 be the better vertical fighter when the Spitfire Sixteen is faster and climbs better?  You'd better have a massive energy advantage, or you're screwed if the Spitfire pilot knows his ship.


Just because a plane has a better climb rate doesn't mean it's better in the vertical.  In the vertical, some planes shed E faster than others despite having a better climb rate.  I'm not saying the Spitfire XVI is bad in the vertical but coalt and co-energy, it will stall out before the P-38 in the vertical, especially against those Lightning drivers that can really extend their vertical climb and keep their nose up when they're slower than 75mph.


ack-ack
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Atoon on February 16, 2007, 04:52:15 PM
My C47 got shot down by a spit today, & my yak only killed 5. Im slippin backwards.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Karnak on February 16, 2007, 05:04:33 PM
The two best fighters for the verticle are the P-38 and Ki-84.

Despite their better sheer climb and speed, the Bf109K-4, Spitfire Mk XIV, Spitfire Mk XVI and Spitfire Mk VIII do not handle verticle combat as well due to their greater torque and inability to pull tightly over the top like the P-38 and Ki-84 can.

The P-38 and Ki-84 will eat any of those fighters for lunch in a verticle fight given equal pilots.
Title: Spit XV1
Post by: BBOB on February 16, 2007, 06:06:59 PM
Hey, it is what it is . Everyone that plays this game knows what the capabilities of a good spit pilot are. If you fly a F4U or a P38 you fight the spit the way you have to fight a spit.

I love to fight spits, their a challenge and it's fun and part of this game worth the $14.95.

Wish people would quit cryin and have more fun.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Benny Moore on February 17, 2007, 12:29:13 AM
I agree that P-38s are far easier to handle and can stay at the top of the vertical climb longer, but if the two started with equal energy the difference is not nearly enough to put the P-38 out of the Spitfire's gun range.  The Spitfire will stall first and more messily, but not before he's hosed the P-38 who is hanging nicely on her propellers.  That's my take on it, anyway.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: SkyRock on February 17, 2007, 12:51:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Just because a plane has a better climb rate doesn't mean it's better in the vertical.  In the vertical, some planes shed E faster than others despite having a better climb rate.  I'm not saying the Spitfire XVI is bad in the vertical but coalt and co-energy, it will stall out before the P-38 in the vertical, especially against those Lightning drivers that can really extend their vertical climb and keep their nose up when they're slower than 75mph.


ack-ack
[/QUOTE
Nice statement!:aok
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Karnak on February 17, 2007, 02:11:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Benny Moore
I agree that P-38s are far easier to handle and can stay at the top of the vertical climb longer, but if the two started with equal energy the difference is not nearly enough to put the P-38 out of the Spitfire's gun range.  The Spitfire will stall first and more messily, but not before he's hosed the P-38 who is hanging nicely on her propellers.  That's my take on it, anyway.

It really sounds to me like you have a lack of understanding what fighting in the verticle means.  You have very simplistic fights in your descriptions that are nothing more than pure zoom fights.

I am no P-38 ace in AH, but I assure you, the Ki-84 devours Spitfires of all marks in the vertical.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Benny Moore on February 17, 2007, 12:28:11 PM
If you're talking about both fighters extending after the merge and making long-term climbs, the Spitfire will win since it is faster and climbs better.  If you're talking about both fighters making an Immelmann after the merge, the Spitfire will win because it Immelmanns faster and tighter.  If you're talking about the P-38 going straight up after the merge and attempting to rope the Spitfire, then the Spitfire will still win because, although he may stall before the P-38 does, he will have plenty of time to hose the P-38 before either of them stalls.

In short, I don't have a large problem fighting in the vertical.  I'm not as good as Murdr or Ack-Ack, but I can beat quite a few of the other respected fliers in this community as often as they beat me, in a fair fight - using the vertical.  And I beat more Spitfires than Spitfires beat me.  But if you're regularly beating Spitfire Mark XVIs in an equal energy dogfight, you're not flying against pilots who know their ship.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Karnak on February 17, 2007, 12:54:39 PM
No, I am talking about sustained vertical fighting.

Think turn fight/scissors/brawling, but going up and down instead of round and round.

I have been in many of them and the only plane that gives me a problem is the P-38 when I am in the Ki-84, barring, of course, significantly superior pilots.

None of what you are describing is really "fighting in the vertical" though.  You are just mentioning a subset of manuvers, some of which are part of fighting in the vertical and some of which are not.  The ones you are mentioning are, unsurprisingly given your bent, the ones that hand the game to the Spitfire and not the ones that hand the game to the P-38/Ki-84.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Benny Moore on February 17, 2007, 08:42:03 PM
I don't know what you're talking about.  All of the maneuvers I described are performed purely in the vertical, with no rolling or turning involved.
Title: Spitifres
Post by: sonic23 on February 17, 2007, 09:56:16 PM
Whats a spitfire?
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 18, 2007, 12:51:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Benny Moore
If you're talking about both fighters extending after the merge and making long-term climbs, the Spitfire will win since it is faster and climbs better.  If you're talking about both fighters making an Immelmann after the merge, the Spitfire will win because it Immelmanns faster and tighter.  If you're talking about the P-38 going straight up after the merge and attempting to rope the Spitfire, then the Spitfire will still win because, although he may stall before the P-38 does, he will have plenty of time to hose the P-38 before either of them stalls.
 



Wrong.  The problem seems that you do not have a true understanding of what the P-38 is capable of in the vertical.   And that is why I was able to beat you so quickly when we fought.

ack-ack
Title: Spitifres
Post by: Benny Moore on February 18, 2007, 01:37:32 AM
We'll have to try again sometime.  I'd only been playing Aces High for about a month when we flew - and I've had hand surgury since then, which has done much to improve my control.  How about it?