Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 1K3 on February 15, 2007, 12:08:10 PM
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hmmm
- US planes can out perform the German planes from mid to hi alt.
- Soviet planes can out perform and run away German planes at low alt.
- British planes are just as fast as Germans but still get out-turned, out-climbed, and out-gunned
- Japanese planes will eat them alive in dogfights, it's not even a contest.
This sounds like other air forces can beat the Germans with ease. Actually it took 3 air forces (US/USSR/UK) to beat the Germans!
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they make a good accessory to my leather underwear
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*sniff*
*swims away from stinky bait.*
Bronk
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What good is the P-40? What good is the A6m? What good, for that matter, is the SBD? The TBM?
The real thing existed in the war, so it exists in this game. Especially when the 190s/109s were a major player in the war.
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In early-war, the 109E is very competitive - fast, good climb, decent guns for the period, will surprise most Spit 5 drivers. A decent 110C pilot should be able to dominate any of the other non-perked rides in this arena.
In mid-war, it's tough to beat the 109F once its pilot becomes familiar with it. Same for the 190A5.
In late-war, the K-4 is a handful, even for the La7.
Seems to me, though, that all of the German planes are just a bit tricky to fly, trickier to land hits with, and require a lot of pilot familiarity before they can be used effectively. I think this is one of their attractions - they're challenging to fly well.
- oldman
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For RL purposes see above post. For AH purposes I would say that the german planes are the best planes for energy fighting, I say this because 90% of them have a 4kpm climb rate and can out accelerate Most planes thus making them good choices for energy fighting. On the other hand we have the american rides, turn pretty well with flaps, can't accelerate past anything, relatively fast, can take a dive. And japenese planes have good flying characteristics except that they are made out of aluminium and can't take a dive.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
A decent 110C pilot should be able to dominate any of the other non-perked rides in this arena
Only because our version of the Bf110C-4 is equipped with more powerful engines that the vadt, vast majority of Bf110s were in reality.
As I recall, there were less than 20 Bf110Cs with these engines in reality.
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German planes are good for the more experienced players to show what they are made of :cool:
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*swims away from stinky bait.*
LOL Bronk.
Hmmm, Chuck Yeager was reputed to have said FW-190 the best plane he ever flew (presumably after war when he got his hands on one)
Since this is a WW2 sim, would be kindof odd to leave out German planes don't you think?
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the 109's were mainly designed to 'bnz',
and shoot down buffs, not to engage spitfires and hurri's,
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Originally posted by 1K3
hmmm
- US planes can out perform the German planes from mid to hi alt.
- Soviet planes can out perform and run away German planes at low alt.
- British planes are just as fast as Germans but still get out-turned, out-climbed, and out-gunned
- Japanese planes will eat them alive in dogfights, it's not even a contest.
This sounds like other air forces can beat the Germans with ease. Actually it took 3 air forces (US/USSR/UK) to beat the Germans!
Hmmm....
- German planes can out perform the US planes at low alt.
- German planes can out perform and run away from Soviet planes at medium to high alt.
- German planes are just as fast as British, and can out-roll, out-climb, and have more devastating cannons
- Japanese planes will be eaten alive in energy fighting and boom and zoom fighting. It's not even a contest.
This sounds like the other air forces can be beaten by the Germans with ease! Actually, it took 3 air forces (US/USSR/UK) to beat the Germans!
See? It works both ways. =P
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^ flys for the bish
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Watching the 30mm cannons on the FW190-A8 and the TA-152 rip bombers to shreds from D600 with only a few hits is a thing of beauty (not to mention what they'll do to an enemy fighter).
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...Quite possibly the oddest topic I have seen...
...What German planes are you flying 1K3...?
...Been playing 14 months and have flown only German Iron. Finnally to a point where no planes dominate me. Comes down to the pilots. Skill, luck and pilot errors are the factors for me now...
I think Oldman is spot on. Once you get comfy in them and learn how to hit with them they are as effective as any other. Mistake people make is taking up a 190 and flying it like it was a Spit. Fly German Iron the way it was intended to be flown and things will be allright.
I am at 98 kills on 20 deaths (fighter) this tour in German rides. Not impressive but also not...worthless.:noid
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Originally posted by 1K3
hmmm
- US planes can out perform the German planes from mid to hi alt.
- Soviet planes can out perform and run away German planes at low alt.
- British planes are just as fast as Germans but still get out-turned, out-climbed, and out-gunned
- Japanese planes will eat them alive in dogfights, it's not even a contest.
This sounds like other air forces can beat the Germans with ease. Actually it took 3 air forces (US/USSR/UK) to beat the Germans!
Very poor bait, but I'll nibble.
You are comparing Late War Allied planes coming from an expanding war machine to Late War German planes that came from a bombed, burned, and mostly destroyed war machine. A fact shown by difference in ENY... only 4 German (1 jet, 1 rocket) and 1 Japanese planes have ENY of 10 or less. Only 1 additional German and Japanese plane have ENY of 15.
Try an Early War match up. Or even comparable ENY match-up.
Additionally, for pilots that can actually Fly, rather than be dependent on the abilities of their plane to see them through, use of high ENY planes such as the 109G-2, 109G-6, 190F-8, the K-4, the G-14 (all over 20 ENY) ---- can earn you more perk points per sortie due to perk point modifier.... especially when you are fighting La-7's, Spit's XVI, Pony-D's, P-47N, Hurri-IIC, Typhies, and C-Hogs (and even N1K2's....all under 10 ENY).
Land kills in a Spit XVI... big deal. Land kills in a P40E or 109F4..... that's something. Most players are dependent on Late War Allied rides (and N1K2's) in this game.
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LW rides work just fine in the MA enviroment...for me anyways. maybe it is not always the plane.....
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Now i lay me down to sleep I pray the lord this thread to delete
Anyone got a bridge
And a gruff billy goat
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It is the pilot that counts.
Learn to fly your selected machine against all other aircraft. Learn good SA (Situational Awareness) while flying your machine. Learn from your mistakes...know the limitations of your machine and the limitations of your personal SA. Don't blame others for your own greed (in getting kills) when you get shot down.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with German Aircraft that a good pilot can't fix!
Patches
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If you think a German plane can't turn fight I suggest you go to the DA with Biggles sometime. He fought me to a stand still in a 109F4 while I was in a Zero. When the fight started I figured I had it made...NO WAY a 109 will turn with me in a Zero....WRONG ANSWER!!!!!!!!
German Iron is some of the best in the game if flown correctly.
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To expound on my earlier post with in game example.
Tonight in mid war:
Mulf and I flying bf109 G-6's engage spit9 who has a few thousand ft. alt advantage. We split him left and right and the fight was on. First radio transmission from Mulf was "He knows what he's doing." I silently concured as I tried to keep the extremely well flown Spitfire in my "eye"sights, reacting and thinking, spinning, rolling, turning,climbing...
Damn 2 v 1 and I cant get a gun solution...and neither can Mulf and he is wayyyy better in the 109 than me.
Next radio trans was "High Zero joining..." S**T!!... Pilot error on my part came next as I underestimated the energy level of the spitfire and over played my SA on the Zero. Next thing I knew, I was despeately trying to eveade the 9 as he closed and tore my wings off. "ElevenK shot you down" was what I was staring at as I floated down in the silk. I watched as they proceeded to 2 v 1 Mulf to the mud, thinking the whole time, I learned something so letting down my squadie and losing my bird wasn't all in vain.
Summary: Do I believe the 9 is hotter than the G-6? or...modeled any better?
Nope.
I was beat my a better pilot, who made no mistakes and who not only managed to keep a good pilot off him, but whacked my arse in the process.
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my 109E will pwn any spit16.
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Heh, I got 5 kills in a 109E over tank town, winging with another 109E against a constant stream of fresh planes. We took on hurricane2cs, yak9us, p51s, las.
I lost an aileron which lead to my eventual death, but when I died I had 5 kills and still had 50 20mm rounds left.
Yeah, those LW planes are useless, ain't they Bat? :t
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Oldman said it well, The German rides simply lack the insant 'jump in, point and shoot' qualities of other rides.
To fly the German rides well it takes practice and a certain flying style to get the best out of each ride. 190s and 109s are totally different beasts and one needs to fly them accordingly. Not only that, the various models of both these types of aircraft are totally different machines too.
To fly a 109, for example, well it takes careful manipulation of throttle, trim, flaps, and climb, unlike a Spit for example which is easier (in my opinion).
I'll jump in a Seafire from time to time and it feels like 'easy mode' :lol
Of course, I've not spent any serious time in a Spit of any model about 5k in a very long time, so my opinion of them is to be taken lightly.
Anyway, heil german steel! :aok
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They make good targets for my A-Hog. :D
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In addition to the points raised above, take away the AWACS and Linda Blair "enhancements" and it would be a totally different story. In real life 80%-90% of the pilots didn't know they were under attack until they were being shot at. In AH I'd guess only about 5% get bounced. It makes a huge difference in what is considered a good aircraft.
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Originally posted by Stampf
"ElevenK shot you down" was what I was staring at
Me, too. That guy is talented. He owned my A5 with his G2 last night.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Bronk
*sniff*
*swims away from stinky bait.*
Bronk
There's not even bait on that hook.
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Originally posted by Krusty
What good is the P-40? What good is the A6m? What good, for that matter, is the SBD? The TBM?
The real thing existed in the war, so it exists in this game. Especially when the 190s/109s were a major player in the war.
hahhaha....now this is funny....everytime I say that we should have a plane join the plane set .....krusty shoots down the idea with: ...."it wont do well in the main arena, and we have other planes allready of similar performance" .....krusty finailly aggree's that "if it served" ...we need it!
amazing!!! :)
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The only thing germans planes are good for is target practice :t
however if they do attack you from above in a dogfight you will be in trouble...just a few rounds from the cannon will blow u out of the sky. but if you have good SA, this wont be a problem. :cool:
Flameboy
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(fans Helm)...come back to me Helm..come back buddy
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storch must off to an Amway Con :lol
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What are the German planes good for anyway...
Kicking arse and taking names
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Originally posted by Helm
hahhaha....now this is funny....everytime I say that we should have a plane join the plane set .....krusty shoots down the idea with: ...."it wont do well in the main arena, and we have other planes allready of similar performance" .....krusty finailly aggree's that "if it served" ...we need it!
amazing!!! :)
The only way I'd have said that is if you'd requested a variant of something we already have, that flies almost identical to something we already have. Did you ask for the P-51C, the P-38H, or the Fw190A-6? In that case I was right to point this out.
Other than that I don't even know you. Don't twist my words. I never said "if it served we need it".
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Originally posted by Krusty
The only way I'd have said that is if you'd requested a variant of something we already have, that flies almost identical to something we already have. Did you ask for the P-51C, the P-38H, or the Fw190A-6? In that case I was right to point this out.
Other than that I don't even know you. Don't twist my words. I never said "if it served we need it".
You don't like the P-39 requests either.:D :p :D :p
Bronk
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For a different reason. I'd never say we have planes with similar performance to the P-39 :noid :noid :t
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Originally posted by Max
storch must off to an Amway Con :lol
He's not qualified to speak about flying LW planes since he can barely fly one himself.
ack-ack
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We need a Ki-100 just to make me happy. But hey...thats just my opinion.
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Originally posted by Laurie
the 109's were mainly designed to 'bnz',
and shoot down buffs, not to engage spitfires and hurri's,
wrong.
109s progressed into this role, but that was only with the added guns... they was designed as Fighters, to hunt and destroy other fighters. Its only once they turned on the defencive that things changed.
However, im personaly sure that if you put 12x 109s vs 12x p51s or 12x p47s you would have the germans winning out. However when its 4x 109s vs 20+ americans.....who is going to win?
much the same could be said for the tank warfare.....
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Its the pilot. Not de Plane.
Spits out the hook. And swims away.:noid
-SR-
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Originally posted by 1K3
- US planes can out perform the German planes from mid to hi alt.
- Soviet planes can out perform and run away German planes at low alt.
- British planes are just as fast as Germans but still get out-turned, out-climbed, and out-gunned
- Japanese planes will eat them alive in dogfights, it's not even a contest.
This sounds like other air forces can beat the Germans with ease. Actually it took 3 air forces (US/USSR/UK) to beat the Germans!
British planes can out-perform the American ships at medium and high altitudes.
German airplanes can out-perform and run away from American ships at low alt.
Soviet crates are just as fast as Americans but still out-turn, out-climb, and out-gun them.
Japanese kites will eat them alive in dogfights, it's not even a contest.
This sounds like other air forces can beat the Americans with ease. Actually, no air force (Luftwaffe, Imperial Japanese, Italian) beat the Americans!
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Originally posted by Laurie
the 109's were mainly designed to 'bnz',
and shoot down buffs, not to engage spitfires and hurri's,
You do know drugs are bad for you... right? ;)
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Originally posted by Wilbus
You do know drugs are bad for you... right? ;)
mmmmmmmmmm Kay
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German planes $%^& especially the K4 :D
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Originally posted by DREDger
*swims away from stinky bait.*
LOL Bronk.
Hmmm, Chuck Yeager was reputed to have said FW-190 the best plane he ever flew (presumably after war when he got his hands on one)
Since this is a WW2 sim, would be kindof odd to leave out German planes don't you think?
Yeager probally said this because he was dumb enough to ho 190 and lose.
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And after war report. Based on test pilots 109 was said to be best all around plane of ww2. alot of enemy planes were brought to Dayton ohio for test during and after war. Final report was 109 in evenly matched pilots hand would win. anyone that lives near dayton could go AF and take photo of report and post would be interesting to post here.
My photo had to much glare from flash on glass. If I remembered right 109 was followed by spitfire then by p47. report was based on all models of 109 spit and p47.
this is by memory so i could be tad off.109 was great climb good armour and great guns. Spitfire manuverability and comfort and ease of new pilots to fly. P47 was speed and guns and could take a beating p51 biggest knock was cooling system more p51's went down with perfect good ship except colling system failure.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Seems to me, though, that all of the German planes are just a bit tricky to fly, trickier to land hits with, and require a lot of pilot familiarity before they can be used effectively. I think this is one of their attractions - they're challenging to fly well.
- oldman
BINGO!
In short. they arent a tricycle with training wheels (cough spitfire cough)
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Originally posted by Flame 2 the boy
The only thing germans planes are good for is target practice :t
however if they do attack you from above in a dogfight you will be in trouble...just a few rounds from the cannon will blow u out of the sky. but if you have good SA, this wont be a problem. :cool:
Flameboy
I fly German planes and actually prefer my enemy start the fight above me
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Skip Holm interview about Bf-109 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFl8X4y9-94)
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LW planes are cannon fodder for the p38. :t
The 163 is a fun ride though.
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Originally posted by ghi
Skip Holm interview about Bf-109 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFl8X4y9-94)
The dude giving out the interview questions sucks.
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Originally posted by Hoarach
LW planes are cannon fodder for the p38. :t
The 163 is a fun ride though.
Pffft, 38s are just targets.
Can't climb a 109, can't turn it, can't out-run it.
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Originally posted by ghi
Skip Holm interview about Bf-109 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFl8X4y9-94)
best report was by Bob Stanley usa's first jet pilot. and main test pilot at dayton. "rather have 109 then anyother plane in true dog fight"
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I think the interviewer was Rod367th. Anyway, the Joint Fighter Conference said that the F4U was the best American ship in a dogfight, not the P-47. Any source that calls the Me-109 the best in a dogfight, over the Spitfire, is obviously biased or misinformed.
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I fear the 109 flown in the right hands ..... 1Duke1 is one fellow that comes to mind. However the 190 against my P-38 is usually an easy fight, they can't turn with you or climb with you and have that unusual ability to snap out at low speeds while the 38 has no torque and is stable at 150 mph in a knife fight. They usually try to run away after they can't turn with a 38 and don't make it. A smart 109 pilot uses slashing energy attacks and never gets caught up in a close engagement with no speed.
Signed
Deadpig
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A smart 109 pilot uses slashing energy attacks and never gets caught up in a close engagement with no speed.
I must dumb then.:(
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quote: originaly: Ledpig
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A smart 109 pilot uses slashing energy attacks and never gets caught up in a close engagement with no speed.
Originally posted by killnu
I must dumb then.:(
Well unless your flying a 109 E thru G-2 say for instance. Those are a muther in a close dogfight, have died to many of them and loved it everytime. :D
P.S. Don't tell any of the other 38 dweebs but i loveeee the 109 too. :D
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Well, a smart new 109 pilot will use energy slashing attacks that much I can agree with.
However, the plane, ones learned (and few learn it that way) is awsome in tight dogfights. Of course plane vs plane it can't compete with spits and the like, that's where skill comes in.