Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hawco on February 15, 2007, 01:41:16 PM
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Hi guys
I'm wondering if there's anyone else out there in O club cyberspace living with this condition also?
I'd be interested in finding what works for you and what doesn't? I know there's a few other vets that post on here and thought if there's a few of us we could maybe set up some sort of support group/ discussion group on here?
I have one of my buisness partners in the same boat as me, he's from the Vietnam era and is really good to talk to now and again.
Just thought I'd throw this out here and see what happens.
Please- no smart prettythang one line responses from any of our more childish posters- they're not funny and not clever
Cheers boys
Hawco
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Pretty hard thing to live with, let alone admit to. I remember my experience was sort of akin to being numb. I wouldn't remember how a week would go by, but suddenly i'd realize "hey, its friday - i get to sleep in." This went on for a good 6 months. But then, a change and I sought out people with relevant experiences and either found those who 'got it', and on the flip side was very dismissive of those who didn't.
There was a mix of frustration, anger & resentment. But what got me back on a more normalized path was simple: I got up, said I am going to do my best to make this day a good day. More and more you start to believe in it - and your behavior changes noticeably. I became more focused on my teaching and flying and service then ever before.
7 years later and i'm better - I've got a great wife and group of friends around who get it. Though these are sometimes when I get choked up - scenes from certain movies (Sum of all fears - post detonation; rescuing the president saying "its the marines to take you home sir) or looking through certain photos from friends in the towers or Iraq.
There are some wounds which don't heal - but you do yr best to soldier on and be a good example to those around you. In time, by talking - you find those who get it and I find comfort in that.
Wolf
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I don't, but i wish you the very best with yours Hawco.
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Mines usally starts with getting really angry and then p$$D off, then I start to get all nervous and really jumpy. my hands start to shake and I can't think coherently.
I got prescribed drugs to take on a regular basis, one that I have to take 3-4 times a day to keep myself calm, usually take one in the morning.lucnhtime and then dinnertime, then I got one that stops me from dreaming at nightime, I usually read a book first to settle down at nighttime and it kicks in and I'm good till the morning.
I had to take extra the other day, one of the idiots I work with was watching all these videos from Iraq on youtube or whatever it's called and getting kicks out of the explosions and death somehow, I got it real bad and had to leave and get home ASAP.
My wife is real understanding though, she now knows that my irrational behavoiur is caused by this, I think friends and family are real important too.
Some of the physical injuries I got can upset me too sometimes, I wish I could go and ride a bike like she does or go for long walks in the countryside, Kind of embarrising sometimes when you have 21 years old kids asking if you are ok going up stairs or down stairs and stuff like that.
It's like I can see them looking at me and saying to themselves " how can a 40 year old man, hobble around like that"
Or when I go into pyschical therapy and there's these hot chicks working in there looking at me like some basketcase.
AS a footnote, I thought about taking the easy way out by buying myself a rucksack and sleeping bag and then just hopping around on trains, that lookd real atractive a while back, nothing to worry about, just sleep under the stars like I used to do, but I never, I faced up to the pressure of having a house and a business and giving a *****, stuff like yardwork, counter tops in kitchens etc And now I try and live the best life I can and within my limits.
PS Any of you boys ever pushed someone out of your life relising that it's you and not them but done it anyway? I did that all the time, one ex wife, numerous girlfirends and some other friends too, I also fond out quickly that drinking and recalling stories is not a good mix when your feeling like you do sometimes.
Helicopters and snarling dogs seems to be my biggest triggers
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Have you tried the Vet Center?
They can help.
Was diagnosed with PTS around 1984. Sadly I had it since 1968. Lost allot in my life and of my life due to it.
When I got back from over seas I stayed drunk, or did crazy things in sportscars or on motorcycles, or all the afore mentioned.
Was addicted to the high you get from being in combat. Was a sure enough action junky.
Was warned I should NEVER take up skydiving because I was the type that would probably keep waiting to the last possible second to open my chute and eventually I would open it too late or NOT at all.
Also lost, or quite, allot of jobs. Couldn't keep a girlfriend, part of the time I didn't want one.
Anger, deep saddness, resentment, jumpy jangled nerves, NIGTMARES, wake up ina cold sweat and can't remember why, I would stay drunk so I wouldn't dream!
Was really bad for me in crowds and the sound of a helo seemed to always bring back................. something.
4th of July was bad for me too.
Some movie get me extremely choked up. Can't explain it. Just find myself wiping my eyes and blowin my nose.
I could go on.
BUT the Vet Center helped ALLOT! Explained many many things that confused me! And many of the things going on with me made much more sense!
Finally I was told........ I'm absolutely normal for what I went through!
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this is a great site for people with mental health issues:
http://www.dr-bob.org/
the music is annoying- just turn it off.
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I have it pretty bad(one tour in iraq).
I read these threads with wannabe politicians who probally never pointed a gun at a young boy.
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Pretty much what wrag said, almost word for word. I was 30 months in country before having to be med-evaced out. After getting out of the hospital and being discharged I got drunk/stoned until the early 80's. I've still got an EXPLOSIVE anger problem, I hate everybody. I don't socialize except for a couple close friends who understand. (lol thanks again for springin me out of the looney bin Aztec. :) I somehow wound up with a great wife who is the sole reason I haven't blown my brains out yet.
It never goes away. Its 40 years ago but yesterday all rolled into one. I don't mean to discourage you. The vet center didn't do me any good, they're nice guys and all but it really didn't help. Best of luck to you
cars
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Take it easy Hawco..
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What is PTSD?
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Originally posted by Meatwad
What is PTSD?
Post-traumatic stress disorder
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Hawco, all the best to you sir. thank you for your service.
you have my heartfelt gratitude.
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Originally posted by cars
Pretty much what wrag said, almost word for word. I was 30 months in country before having to be med-evaced out. After getting out of the hospital and being discharged I got drunk/stoned until the early 80's. I've still got an EXPLOSIVE anger problem, I hate everybody. I don't socialize except for a couple close friends who understand. (lol thanks again for springin me out of the looney bin Aztec. :) I somehow wound up with a great wife who is the sole reason I haven't blown my brains out yet.
It never goes away. Its 40 years ago but yesterday all rolled into one. I don't mean to discourage you. The vet center didn't do me any good, they're nice guys and all but it really didn't help. Best of luck to you
cars
That gets me sometime too Cars- the explosvie anger thing. i just seem to blow up for the most smaller of things, I'm dreading going to San francisco this weekend for a Valentines thing with the wife, I can't drink and take the medication so I'll guess Ill just get drunk all the time instead.
It's when those studmuffingy punks at the reception desk keep asking the same questions over and over before reclulcantly giving you a room key with a cheesy smile.
And then there's the Aholes you meet in the bars, you know the one's, "Yeah man, lets go and kick bellybutton in "Iraq. I'm going to be a CIA sniper" etc etc and they just don't go away, they stick around telling you all this BS...
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Amen wrag!
Took me along time to face it... always in denial. Still am at a point. Night sweats and nightmares are the worse. Found it was best to stay drunk and medicated so I would'nt dream. I don't socialize much except with close well known friends. Small circle. The sounds can bring up anxiety attacks, especially slicks. I avoid even today of going into anything that resembles a tunnel.
Hang in there Graham bro <<>> give Jack my best. I'll give ya a call soon and see how yer doing. It's been awhile huh?
I'm finally working again.
Mac
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Speaking as someone who doesn't have it but has seen the effects on friends (eg Hawco) and loved ones (grandfather, brother in law, several guys in his unit) it's frustrating because, speaking only for myself, you want to do something to be supportive but you'll never REALLY understand it.
Bro in law did a LOT of the things mentioned above before redeploying for tour 2 and we spent a lot of nights going to bed wondering if we were going to get a call from a coroner.
Anybody that doesn't think this is a real problem is as full of !%!% as a Christmas turkey.
You guys that have it do not have my sympathy cause you don't want it, you can't have my empathy because I truly can't feel it, but you have my gratitude and respect for exposing yourselves to the situations that caused it.
Hawco.. call sometime if you need to talk or just cuss someone out
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This is how I feel most of the time. Spent 73-74 in country with SOG watchin Charlie take everything back. Now I just don't watch certain programs on TV or go see certain movies. Assault on Prct 13 comes to mind for me. (the first one) Ran outa the theater the first time I went with some friends to see it. Was all the sounds of the bullets whizzin by that got me. Still have my hair stand up whenever I hear a chopper flyin by. Spent all of the 80's stoned outa my gourd tryin to make some sense of the whole thing. Now I just feel like I got a Dr. Jekel/ Mr. Hyde thing goin on and I work hard everyday keepin the moster in his cage. Sleeping is better finally, but I still don't dream either. Just tryin to take each day at a time, and I got a good lady that truly understands what it's all about cause she's a RN with RL experiances of her own. As far as friends go, I'm not one to get that close with anyone anymore. And besides, most guys where I live today have some really limited goals IMO. Getting drunk after work and stumbling home to rag on the wife ain't all that much fun, so I avoid that environment as much as possible. So from one Vet to another....
Welcome home, Hawco, Mac, and all you others out there.
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Hawco and all the folks out there dealing with PTSD... I feel for you guys... I've been Dx'd with it too (I'm not a vet, some guy tried to kill me with a screwdriver during a car jacking attempt...I'm not going to go into what I've experienced out of respect for the fact that this thread is geared towards combat-vets)
What I wanted to tell you is that I work for the VA (Please note I am not an official spokes person for the Department of Veteran's Affairs) but right now there is a major push to develop and provide trauma services. I really encourage you guys to contact your primary care provider at the VAMC and ask about what services are available to you and for a assessment/referral. Keep in mind that OEF/OIF guys are priority at the moment, but I'm sure your local Trauma Services Team can get you in quickly.
Also... don't be shy applying for service connection benefits. Talk to a VSO or VBA rep.
Thank you for your service guys <>
I'll be seeing you around the VA :)
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Now I just feel like I got a Dr. Jekel/ Mr. Hyde thing goin on and I work hard everyday keepin the moster in his cage.
BINGO!
TY CpMorgan ya nailed this one.
Mac
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I did an 14 month stent as an EMT-B, and then upgrading to -I before having to give up the job because of the PTS I was experiencing. During the 14 months, I responded to thrity one car fatalities, nine being children. Nearly all of them were DOS/DOA. My first and last response were the hardest; both children, 1 decap. I'm not going to go into any more details because of privacy.
This isn't something that haunts me to this day, but the stress and anxiety I experienced for a week or two after responding to accidents was just too much for me to take. After all of my unsucessful resuscitation's, I would go home, and just cry uncontrollably. It's difficult to describe. Just a terrible, terrible feeling. You know you did everything you possibly could, but it just doesnt help.
Finally, the last crash put me over the edge, and I resigned from my position. I attended therapy meetings for about 3 months. Its bittersweet looking back. I'm proud of what I did, but it still brings back some chitty feelings. Cynical to say, but a phrase i've learned to get by is..."it is what it is".
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Originally posted by CpMorgan
This is how I feel most of the time. Spent 73-74 in country with SOG watchin Charlie take everything back. Now I just don't watch certain programs on TV or go see certain movies. Assault on Prct 13 comes to mind for me. (the first one) Ran outa the theater the first time I went with some friends to see it. Was all the sounds of the bullets whizzin by that got me. Still have my hair stand up whenever I hear a chopper flyin by. Spent all of the 80's stoned outa my gourd tryin to make some sense of the whole thing. Now I just feel like I got a Dr. Jekel/ Mr. Hyde thing goin on and I work hard everyday keepin the moster in his cage. Sleeping is better finally, but I still don't dream either. Just tryin to take each day at a time, and I got a good lady that truly understands what it's all about cause she's a RN with RL experiances of her own. As far as friends go, I'm not one to get that close with anyone anymore. And besides, most guys where I live today have some really limited goals IMO. Getting drunk after work and stumbling home to rag on the wife ain't all that much fun, so I avoid that environment as much as possible. So from one Vet to another....
Welcome home, Hawco, Mac, and all you others out there.
Yep! THE BEAST WITHIN!
1st enlistment 1966 - 1970
1968 RVN...........
Was stationed at MCAS Yuma. 2nd enlistment 1970 - 1974
Was having really strange dreams. Had a really good OIC. I told him about the dreams. Asked him if I could see a Doctor or something. He got me an appointment with a Navy Psych. Told him the dream and about some others. He told me I was NORMAL??? And said don't worry about it?
The DREAM ........
find myself as some BEAST! I'm moving around in a great rage! With every step I take, with a wierd sort of pleasure, I rend the very ground as I moved about with the rage growing!
I stop, I realize as I look over at a tree line, someone or something is traveling along a trail through there.
I rejoice! I move toward it thinking it's something I can ambush and rend and rip and KILL!
Suddenly I'm a human. I'm traveling down a trail within a treeline. I STOP! something is ahead. I can sense it. It is a thing of pure rage. It seeks only to rend, rip, and destroy. I realize I can avoid it by taking another path, BUT I also realize it will seek out me and my people and destroy! I KNOW I can go down the path were it waits. I know I can destroy it BUT I will be killed in doing so. I choose, I go down the trail to meet it. It will not destroy my people!
I wake up!
Had some others that were about as bad but different.
Wasn't drinkin at the time. Started drinkin shortly there after and STAYED drunk for a very long time!
Hate IT! Every now and then............ I still spend time drunk. It's like I have too................
NO THANK YOU I don't want any of them dam strange pills the Drs. at the VA give out!!!!
To all that have it, and them damd dreams!
Please accept my best wish's and may God Bless you and yours and keep you safe and well!
I KNOW how ya got there!
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Originally posted by wrag
Yep! THE BEAST WITHIN!
1st enlistment 1966 - 1970
1968 RVN...........
Was stationed at MCAS Yuma. 2nd enlistment 1970 - 1974
Was having really strange dreams. Had a really good OIC. I told him about the dreams. Asked him if I could see a Doctor or something. He got me an appointment with a Navy Psych. Told him the dream and about some others. He told me I was NORMAL??? And said don't worry about it?
The DREAM ........
find myself as some BEAST! I'm moving around in a great rage! With every step I take, with a wierd sort of pleasure, I rend the very ground as I moved about with the rage growing!
I stop, I realize as I look over at a tree line, someone or something is traveling along a trail through there.
I rejoice! I move toward it thinking it's something I can ambush and rend and rip and KILL!
Suddenly I'm a human. I'm traveling down a trail within a treeline. I STOP! something is ahead. I can sense it. It is a thing of pure rage. It seeks only to rend, rip, and destroy. I realize I can avoid it by taking another path, BUT I also realize it will seek out me and my people and destroy! I KNOW I can go down the path were it waits. I know I can destroy it BUT I will be killed in doing so. I choose, I go down the trail to meet it. It will not destroy my people!
I wake up!
Had some others that were about as bad but different.
Wasn't drinkin at the time. Started drinkin shortly there after and STAYED drunk for a very long time!
Hate IT! Every now and then............ I still spend time drunk. It's like I have too................
NO THANK YOU I don't want any of them dam strange pills the Drs. at the VA give out!!!!
To all that have it, and them damd dreams!
Please accept my best wish's and may God Bless you and yours and keep you safe and well!
I KNOW how ya got there!
My worst one iswhen I feel Dr Frankentsien moving in for a few days, I always feel his hand on my shoulder before he egts hold of Steg out of the drain culvert and then dceidce to rather interrogate him they hack him up inthe hope we will reveal ousevles, I'll still pay a visit to stegs wife, alwyas tell her he died quicly savng us all, mkes her feel good so job done.
aplogies for spelling mistakes, juys popped a pill as my alarm on my watch went off.
Maybe I should head to the arena? might actually land a kill feeling like this lol
Shoold change my handle to the Redbaron !
Good luck everyone, enjyoy your life as it sure doesn't last long.
Edit to that, I must be one of the easiuest to kill in the arenam but boy ! sure have fun while dodging abd ducking the experets!!
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experets?
Wasn't that a Monty Python skit?
Hawco
Mac
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spent alot of time with my grandad
he was the only one in the family who really understood what i was going through
i could sit with him for hours sometimes not even saying a word
i don't know why but after i'd gone back to england and visited him i'd always feel alot beter
when he died i went downhill BIG TIME
the wife introduced me to a Vet at the nursing home where she works
and now when i'm really feeling S**t i knock on his door for a chat
i once asked my grandad "does it ever stop?"
he said
"no it's still the same as it was but at my age its's Just a litttle fuzzy around the edges"
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Whew,
Ya'll draggin up some feelings for me. Been what, 30 years now since I got back stateside. And it seems like it was this morning. Oh well..another day.
What really chaps my behind and makes the monster rattle his cage is when I get some young-prettythang punk talkin down to me like I was some moron. Or just partonizing me like I'm a little less off than they are. Man, I just want to show them just how fragle the human body really is as I tear out his jugular with my fingers.....
But then, I take a deep breath and smile really pretty and cold right in their eyes untill I can see their pupils dialate and I know their heart rate jumped a little. Then I get really close and just violate their personal space enough to make it uncomfortable. Then very politely I tell them, "You really are not worth it."
Control the monster, and you can own his power.
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I was fine after the first rodeo. I didn't notice any ill effects except for the usual home adjustment issues that passed after a couple of months.
After the second time, I jumped off the couch and was headed for the door when I heard a string of firecrackers going off outside. I don't think I made any connection with the sound as in I didn't think it was something other than what it was, but I still reacted for some reason. I have no idea what I was going to do when I got to the door or why I was even gonna go out there. It scared the wife a little. Started having dreams a few months afterward, but not reliving any particular event.
After the third time, I jump occasionally at a sudden noise but nothing really beyond what's to be expected. The sudden increase in heart rate when this happens pisses me off and gets me wired up for a few minutes.
My main thing now is watching sad movies or sad situations. I can't stand to see someone grieve and even if it's make believe or a total stranger I'll bawl my eyes out. Can't control it.
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Man oh man...
This thread is opening a box I held tucked away fearing I was insane.
Sux when the wifey is waking you up and yer covered in sweat...sez your're screaming again and starts to tell me I'm either calling in a fire mission screaming into my fist "Danger Close you Mother F*******...adjust...adjust..." or the worst... Tunnel nightmares...frikken spiders, darkness...dank dark smell..then I can't find my way back...voices.
I still don't know how I did it... I was young and dumb. Just typing this has me sweating, shaking...like I can't breathe, choking or drowning....
Gotta take a break.
As much as I hate this thread, it's a good one...
Thanx,
Mac
Still staying drunk and medicated to a lesser degree than years before....If I could just have regular dreams... Hell I'd live with dreams of humpin sheep if the bad ones would just go away.
The sounds of choppers in the air really gets me hard. Frikken NEWS reporters on TV raises my BP. Bite the bottom lip and Drive On.
My 2 cents... doesn't mean a thing..
Mac
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Defiante;y not looking to checking into the Hyatt on Saturday, can see it all now, name, res #, what's your name again?" "Ccan't find you in the system" Sure it's this hotel you've booked?" " we have the basement room next to the laundry left" .
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Nice lil chat with ya Hawco.
Take care Bro... ya got my number.
Mac
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First, I dont have PTSD and my heart goes out to you folks who are trying your best to confront it, live with it and help others.
As a youth, I worked at a gas station right by the runway. The Army Guard has medivac choppers (UH-1s) that flew constantly. They'd overfly the station all the time on their way to/fro. We had some customers who'd simply have that look of terror as a low flying Huey was slowly ascending and descending nearby. I was never sure what to make of it, til the service manager explained PTSD to me (This was 1984). Explained he's had a few mechanics in the past who served in Vietnam and just couldnt deal with the constant Huey traffic so close.
Good luck to you guys.
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Mac, Hawco, everyone else,
Just a few notes that might help some. I've gotten to the point where I don't like to "pick at the scab" as it were. It'll never heal up and will ALWAYS stay sore to the touch. It wont go away, and it wont stop messing with your head. But it will give you strength if you let it. A wise person told me once that it's not what happened that is the problem, it's what it made me have to do to survive that's hard to live with.
Society teaches us that we are to behave in a certain way, and act a certain way in order to be accepted as a "normal" human. Once those "norms" are negated or removed from reality, we are left with a void. The human emotional balance is left without a basis to stabilize itself. I know, I know it sounds like psyco babble, but hear me out please, cause it helped me. The reality of that "situation" was that everything we were taught to believe in from childhood was trashed. Human life meant nothing. Sanity was something you held onto with a vice grip because the whole environment was insane. Nothing was real except the mind numbing fear and the need to survive another day, another hour, another minute. NO MATTER WHAT YOU HAD TO DO. I became the monster, and I'M GLAD I DID. There, I've said it! I'm not proud of it, and I don't brag about it, and I keep that monster chained up in a cage because I know just exactly what he's capable of if I let him out.
But I've learned to accept what he is. He is me and I am him. and if or when the situation ever presents itself again, I know that there is that strength available to tap into to do whatever is necessary to survive. And only those few individuals that were there can truly understand what that really means. Walk proud with your head high and DO NOT LOOK BACK. Cause in this world, brother, few can say they've actually been to hell and back and be telling the honest to God truth.
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First of all i'd like to apologize to the guys here for draggin up sh$t that buried a long time ago, As I type this my hands are all shaking and there's a huge number of butterflys in my stomach, Mymind is racing and I'm having trouble concentrating on the keyboard, thanks to all for contributing and I think tat if there's anyone of us gets into a hole here we should get together and bail each other out.
I have surgey coming up where they are gonna transfer something from my good leg to the bad leg and mess round with the nevers in my left arm and leg to tryand jolt sommething into them, most of it is permanent damage but at least they are trying.
the bits ofmetal that are still stuck above my right eye are ineropable as it's too risky to try and messa round with them, so My right eye is still going to be severly impaired, they can't do nothing with the damaged eardrum either, hence why i have a habbit of looking like a guy that's been drinking scoth all day lol.
Just imgaine boys, If I was in A shape, then the Redbaron would well and truely be alive lol
Ona high right now anyway, got a whopping 159 fighter perkies saved up, one day i might make to 200 or so and take to the skies in a 262, god i'd love that!
Swoop around at 20k doing 500mph, now that would be fun!
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Hawco,
No need to apologize. You needed to talk, to vent and ask about it. One of the biggest problems with this type of thing is the feeling that you are so absolutely alone in that little corner of hell. That feeling of being alone and no one knows or understands is what keeps you in that hole.
You just took a step out don't go back in. The hardest part was the venturing out and seeking soem assistance. Don't close it off now.
Nothing can take back the memories of both what did this and brought you the dreams as well. You don't have to let yourself live in them though. Get some help facing the problem and shrink it down to size. It's not what you did that's the problem, it's letting yourself let go of it so it no longer dominates your life that will make it better for you.
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I agree, no need to apologize. If you need to let it go, then do it. That's probably really dumb coming from a 17 year old but it's what I do. The "social norms" that Morgan brought up need to be forgotten by all.
Thanks for your service, all of you.
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Guys,
While I don't have it, I was a medic in the military in the 80's in a combat unit and dealt with 3 situations. First off I want to tell you that you, as you can guess, are not alone and it's not somehting abnormal about you.
Second, do NOT use mind altering chemicals. No drinking, no drugs, and you should probably quit smoking (I'm a smoker, I know that pain).
Third, find a vet group nearby. You would be amazed at how simply talking eases things. Talking on this board will help the group of you suffering, but human face to face contact is much better.
I wish you guys the best. When you notice the onset of your symptoms, stop and immediately deal with it.
Now, personal opinion without scientific basis. The mind can be trained, it's not easy. Seriously, try yoga. Getting into a daily habit and practice would help focus the mind.
I'm not belittling the things you've seen, done or experienced. Thhis is something you will live with forever. Oh and, I'm not Tom Cruise...if you need psych prescribed drugs to get you over the hump, USE EM, but correctly.
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This goes to every one of you guys in this fourm. i am a 18 year old bot. i say boy because i have never expericend any of what you guys are speaking of. now im not gonna pretend to know what your feeling. but before i read this fourm i didnt really think about every thing you guys have to live with. for doing a duty to our country and all of the people in it. like i said i am only a boy, because you are men. i respect every thing you guys have done. now i know this donst mean anything to your guys. im just another kid on the block. but reading this thread choked me up, bad. and i just wanted to say i appericate evry thing you guys have done for us your kids and grandkids. So like i said i am sorry for takin up space in witch i dont belong, But thank you every one of you.
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My hopes go out to you guys dealing with that baggage. I tell you I had really bad anxiety in the past, days when I felt like I was just gonna snap. Best help was talking to family, and excercise. I didn't let myself think about it. There were times when I'd do anything to take a pill for it, but I never did resort to meds, and I'm glad because after a year it finally started going away. I still get weirded out at times, but now I know how to control it.
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Originally posted by AWMac
Amen wrag!
Took me along time to face it... always in denial. Still am at a point. Night sweats and nightmares are the worse. Found it was best to stay drunk and medicated so I would'nt dream. I don't socialize much except with close well known friends. Small circle. The sounds can bring up anxiety attacks, especially slicks. I avoid even today of going into anything that resembles a tunnel.
Hang in there Graham bro <<>> give Jack my best. I'll give ya a call soon and see how yer doing. It's been awhile huh?
I'm finally working again.
Mac
Thanks for the call tonight Fred I admit I couldn't stay long on the phone as I was starting to choke up, Went for a sit at outside on the yard and just bailed my eyes out for a good 10 mins afterwards, If you or anyone else ever need a shoulder to then I'm here to bro, same for anyone else.
Everyday I wake up and ask myself the same question " will my war ever end?"
This weekend I'm gonna enjoy myself no matter what, I owe that to my wife and to all my comrades that are in the stars at night.
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Graham I'm here if ya ever need an ear or a shoulder Bro.
It's near 12:00am here can't sleep...well no than anything won't sleep.
Dealing with crap again.
Got off the phone with you and was really choking hard. watermelon happens but it's better than it was before.
Yeah I'm drinking...sometimes it's best to deal with it this way.
Just gotta remind myself that I'm not perfect...just numb.
Best to ya Bro, you have my number.
pffft this took 30 minutes to type...
Mac
dammit
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Charlie Daniels Band
(Still in Saigon)
Got on a plane in 'Frisco
And got off in Vietnam
I walked into a different world
The past forever gone
I could have gone to Canada
Or I could have stayed in school
But I was brought up differently
I couldn't break the rules
Thirteen months and fifteen days
The last ones were the worst
One minute I'd kneel down and pray
And the next I'd stand and curse
No place to run to
Where I did not feel that war
When I got home I stayed alone
And checked behind each door
Cuz I'm still in Saigon
Still in Saigon
I am still in Saigon
In my mind
The ground at home was covered in snow
And I was covered in sweat
My younger brother calls me a killer
And my daddy calls me a vet
Everybody says I'm someone else
And I'm sick and there's no cure
Damned if I know who I am
There was only one place I was sure
When i was still in Saigon
Still in saigon
I am still in saigon
In my mind
Every summer when it rains
I smell the jungle, I hear the planes
I can't tell no one, I feel ashamed
Afraid some day I'll go insane
That's been ten long years ago
And time has gone on by
Now and then I catch myself
Eyes searching through the sky
All the sounds of long ago
Will be forever in my head
Mingled with the wounded cries
And the silence of the dead
'Cuz I'm still in Saigon
Still in Saigon
I am still in Saigon
In my mind
I am still in Saigon
I am still in Saigon
Yes, I'm still in Saigon
In my mind
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Well didnt expect so many here with it! Ok was a gunner on air force PAVELOWS (special ops helos) for 8 years, spent about 2 years on the various deserts, afghanistan, africa, iraq. last deployment was late 03, moved to Japan and in mid/late 05 lost my friggin mind (or at least thats how it felt). The way I felt it was like someone jumping infront of you and going "boo" then you look for the guy to kill him. Id basically feel like that all day. Had no idea what was going on just knew I was dwelling in the land of the "not quite right". It got so bad I went to a shrink, she told me I had the post (thats what me and the wife call it). So went through various drugs and found out Im lucky enough to be "complex", "cronic", and drug resistant. Let me tell you I was happy as a ****in clam. Getting out on a med now have no idea what Im gonna do and I have progressed to the point I am pissed off at everything all the time.
That is the quick version anyway.
Basically AH is the one of the things that have worked for me so far. It occupies my mind so completely while Im playing it, it takes my mind off of the rest of the stuff. Sounds kinda pathetic I know but at least the wife likes it when I play, cant beat that.
What was/is really weird is that at one point I couldnt remember anything tell me something and 2 mins later it was gone. But I could remember what speeds to dive my cartoon airplanes at before compression and when flaps work. Go figure???
sorry for the long post, but hey.....Im nuts
Glenn
BTW anyone have any drug advice? They are thinking about putting me on nerotonin or some such stuff
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Suggest to your Dr.
Klonopin (Clonazepam) for anxiety, panic disorder and insomnia.
Clonidine for high blood pressure.
Wellbutrin for depression.
Beware of some antidepressants out there. If they make you feel different in a bad way get off them immediately.
Good luck to you 53gunner.
Mac
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First off for all you guys who served, a big THANK YOU!
Some of us do appreciate what you did for your country.
I'm really glad to see some of you guys connecting.
And to Hawco for finding the courage to get this monster out in the open.
WTG bro
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I suppose you've never heard of "adjusting" your age to join the military? All it took was a signature from my Dad at that time. Recruiter really couldn't give a S*** less. Nuff said.
P.S. The last troops didn't leave Vietnam untill 1975.
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edit
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I think you've said enough already.
to those that really served!
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'75 - '95
Joined at 17 Retired at 37.
Mac
SFC US Army Ret.
"...and THIS man NEVER GOT A DINNER...nevergotadinner!"
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I had almost no problems dealing with the things I saw and did while in the army, once I was removed from that enviorment. I have suffered from a laundry list of emotional stress. I cant watch some tv shows with getting all balled up. I have rubbed off my eyebrough on several occasions, rubbed a bald spot in my head ( thank god it all grew back ). And often get this feeling of utter dispair.
I have dealt with this all rather well, I totally avoided meds. And found comfort working with vets who were worse off than I could ever imagine. Helping them cope slowly made alot of this fade away. Finding the good you can create out of a evil thats been done helps alot. A big reason I play online games is its social interaction without a crowd. I was in Israel when a suicide bomber decided it was his time and it was close enough to make me rethink life.
I salute all you who have served and that are serving, the truth about this is alot of service members peace and war get this. Life never ends it just goes down a gear waiting for you to find the clutch and kick it back in. I was able to right away id the issues i had and tell those around me what was going on so there was that understanding there.
90prf
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I'll make you a dinner Mac. :aok
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Howdy, yeah I already went through the klonopin, also went through (in order) Zolofd, celexa, effexor, and while I was on those was also on klonopin, xanex, ambien. Im currently on ativan, ambien (to sleep) and st johns wort (believe it or not the stuff actually works pretty well). Mostly stopped all the other stuff because the side effects just plane sucked. At the end of the month Im seeing my shrink again and thats when Ill go on the anti psych.
Glenn
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Originally posted by Xargos
I'll make you a dinner Mac. :aok
Thanks Xargos. I may someday take you up on that.
Mac
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Okay, you're willing to say that "being part of SOG" at the age of 18 meant he was part of the USMC detail holding Saigon?
Look, I've got nothing but respect for the men in this thread who genuinely suffer, and their accounts help me understand what they're going through; but the jokers who think PTSD is some kinda mark of glory and fame, and bandy it about like that, just pi%% me off. Sorry: if you're going to share trauma stories, you don't conform to stereotypes gleaned from dime novels: you give your account, and it's undeniably yours. Or you don't talk about it in detail: if it's really screwing you up, there's no glory in your status -- so why mention it in a thread about how screwed up you are?
And, for the record, no, no, and not even close. Well, I did know a guy who was a USMC sniper/scout, and had regular voice/text exchanges with him. He finished his tour in the Marines, came out, then, when he heard the Marines were adopting OFP for training, he re-enlisted. I talked with him both stateside and overseas (a couple times, he texted me out of the blue from Fallujah in spring 2004). He would always bring up how he found some situation ideal for OFP/VBS.
From all accounts, he was not the kinda guy who would suffer from PTSD. Yet I would wonder: his recon work meant he'd often pack a digital SLR, and some of the pictures he'd post would be of things like an (approximately) 8-year-old girl picking flowers -- through the scope of his rifle on a concrete rooftop; then he'd tell me stories of going on a surveillance mission, being compromised by a 16-year-old boy, and holding him there until he was so scared he pissed his pants, then letting him go when they left. That crap's gonna leave a mark.
Ironically, he didn't suffer at all. He was one of the ten Marines killed by an Artillery-shell-turned-IED at the end of November, 2005.
Now, those of you who play videogames and dream of paying the price, think of those who dreamed of videogames and ended up paying the price.
To those of you who continue to pay the price, I give you my enduring respect and sympathy.
Anyone who needs further identification (=personally identifying information) on this matter, feel free to PM me.
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Gentlemen
Please lets step back and consider what this thread is really about. As I said in a previous post I can not identify with those who have and are suffering from PTSD because, as it has been said, 'you don't know you weren't there', quite honestly I regret the fact that I did not serve and therefore can not empathize.
If there is someone posting erroneous or false information then it's for them to live with. There's nothing to be gained by starting an internet argument that nobody wins and turning something positive into a negative.
This thread has helped me understand to a greater degree what some veterans go through and makes me even more aware of proper decorum around them. For that I thank you gentlemen that did serve and carry their scars both physical and mental every day. Were it within my power to ease your pain even a little bit even if that meant taking some of it on myself I would gladly do so.
I'm going to paraphrase Tony Blair because America is not the only country that is fighting the current war and the wars against tyranny and aggression that all nations that yearn for freedom have been involved with throughout history.
Only two defining forces have ever offered
to die for you:
1. Jesus Christ
2. The G. I.
One died for your soul, .. the other for your freedom.
If you're posting false information in this thread then, as I've said above, you have to live with that. I, personally, could not. I'm a rotten person with a harsh sense of humor that knows few lines but urinating on a serviceman by pretending to be one is one I will not approach much less cross.
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It's ashame that one had to hijack a thread like this with incorrect assumptions.
I did my 20. Proud to have done it also.
Was with RTMutt 2nd tour in Korea '82 ~ '84 and then again in Germany '86 ~ '89. Visit Mutt twice a Year since I retired. I retired from Ft Huachuca '95 swung by and seen Mutt at Ft Hood on my way to Ohio.
Anyways, Like I said before Carrel looks like a shades account who's only intent was to hijack this thread.
Mac
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I disagree sir...
In this situation I would suggest that if you don't have anything supportive or positive to add then say nothing. Send me a pm and call me every name in the book but do NOT dishonor people who have served or the representation of people who have served in my presence. I find it distasteful and disgusting. For that matter insult me in public and on these boards. Your opinion of me counts for about as much as the wino in the Wal Mart parking lot based on what I've seen of you so far.
And by the way... the originator of the thread is known to me and I know a little more about his situation than you do. So, for once I'm not going to be nice and polite, and tell you to shut your pie hole. You do not know what he's going through and to call him someone who is trying to 'one up' someone makes me want to literally vomit. Were this person to call me and tell me he needed a place to stay for a few months my home would be open to him and my family and children would embrace him as a beloved brother / uncle.
REGARDLESS of whether there are one or two people posting here that are not telling the entire truth PTSD is REAL and since you seem to be so cavalier about it I would infer that you know about as much about it as I do about your personal finances.
Here's an idea ... go down to the local recruiting office and volunteer to be a leg and do your time in a war zone. Come back after you've faced the horrors that I can not possibly imagine in my worst nightmares. Hold your buddy as he dies, carry his coffin home to his family, and then tell me I don't know what the f!#$ I'm talking about. Then, perhaps, your argument will carry a little weight with me.
I'd rather support 1 guy that really has PTSD and 99 that don't and are lying (by the way that's how you spell lying) than turn my back on the one.
That man and now days woman EARNED that respect from me. And I'm happy to give it.
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Originally posted by Mini D
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Hi mini D I don't know you and you don't know me, I feel sad that you feel this way but can totally understand it, Your right, it's not a badge of honor, or a one upman ship, it's not about egos or anything else, This thread for me was about opening something up and discussing it in a mature and adult like manner.
To be honest, I have regretted starting this whole thing, your post reminds me of the time when I told my brother of all people about how I felt etc, he done much the same as you, so I just kept quiet and didn't bother opening up, I met some great friends in my squad, people who I feel comfortable in talking to, they give a S##T about me, That alone is great for a guy like me.
I would like to respectfully ask you one thing though, If you don't like what you read on here, or think it's all BS then don't post that here please, just ignore it, This stuff you posted is very dissapointing to read, that's just my personal opinion though.
I can't think of anything else to say really.
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to those who serve(d) & provide me with my freedom. I appreciate my freedom & those who keep it for my family, my friends & myself. I know it comes at a price, and IMO the value is priceless.
Lets keep this thread on track, please.
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Dichotomy,
You just want to help. I Understand. You can't help it.
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You can get PTSD from other things besides combat. Also, you can prevent PTSD from forming if you take an adrenaline blocking drug (like propanolol) shortly after a traumatic event.
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Propanolol only blocks the physical symptoms of PSD...sweat, heart racing etc.. The PSD is still there and other sympoms like depression etc.. will also still be there.
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Some folks need a shot of bovinescatinol.
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Originally posted by AWMac
Suggest to your Dr.
Klonopin (Clonazepam) for anxiety, panic disorder and insomnia.
Clonidine for high blood pressure.
Wellbutrin for depression.
Beware of some antidepressants out there. If they make you feel different in a bad way get off them immediately.
Good luck to you 53gunner.
Mac
To 53gunner..........
Like AWMac is saying............
CAREFUL with some of these drugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have known people that tried to sucide on some of em.
So far the only meds I've taken are non-prescription.
Hate the way drugs make me feel.
BUT hey I don't like many/most drugs legal or illegal! Don't like where they send me!
Tried taken Zyban (aka Wellbutrin) to quite smoking, didn't work for me, got some of the BAD side affects. Had to quite takin em. The drug did seem to help me smoke less too :(
I remember that as soon as I walked into the VA hospital the Doctors started tellin me "You want drugs? I'll give you drugs".
Many of them kept telling me that.
I told then NO I DON'T WANT DRUGS, I want to be healthy, that is what I want!
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Xanax seems to work for me, Doesn't really make me bad in a anyway, makes me about 2 steps slower than anyone else, but that's ok. I like to use something as otherwise I'd drive people around me crazy, so as I would like to remain married for the forseeable future, I'll keep doing what I'm doing. To be honest, the most supportive person I have in my life is my friend and business partner Jack, he's 62/63 now, he was in the Air Cav or sommething like that in Vietnam, he's been married 3 times, been rich, lost it, been rich and lost it again, he's probably saved me around 20 years of torment, He never judges me, he listens, he understands everything I feel and say as he's been there and done it,
I never knew the first thing about Vietnam or anything about it till I met him and he opened up to me, he's introduced me to these other guys who were there, guys from skyhawk pilots, Helicopter pilots, a whole host of guys, that we all meet at the CA DVBE lunches and get togethers.
Nice thing about them is that you can basically say what you like and nobody gives a F$$k, there isn't any Internet detecives analayziing posts for information and then posting sh$t about people that p$$ people of and wish that there was a AH convention coming up so you could say hello to them.
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Originally posted by Choocha
Propanolol only blocks the physical symptoms of PSD...sweat, heart racing etc.. The PSD is still there and other sympoms like depression etc.. will also still be there.
Thats what I originally thought too. But there is a critical window of time right after a traumatic event in which the brain uses adrenaline to burn the memory in extra strong (thus leading to PTSD) where propanolol can prevent that from happening. It was all over the news a while back.
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Originally posted by DYNAMITE
Hawco and all the folks out there dealing with PTSD... I feel for you guys... I've been Dx'd with it too (I'm not a vet, some guy tried to kill me with a screwdriver during a car jacking attempt...I'm not going to go into what I've experienced out of respect for the fact that this thread is geared towards combat-vets)
What I wanted to tell you is that I work for the VA (Please note I am not an official spokes person for the Department of Veteran's Affairs) but right now there is a major push to develop and provide trauma services. I really encourage you guys to contact your primary care provider at the VAMC and ask about what services are available to you and for a assessment/referral. Keep in mind that OEF/OIF guys are priority at the moment, but I'm sure your local Trauma Services Team can get you in quickly.
Also... don't be shy applying for service connection benefits. Talk to a VSO or VBA rep.
Thank you for your service guys <>
I'll be seeing you around the VA :)
Don't think this should just be for combat vets, think it should be for a anyone who lves with this, your condition is probably no different from mines or others you need to talk and deal with it too. so if yuo ever want to just vent/rant cuss or wahtever then here's the place to do it my friend.
again, I started this thread with the good intention of having a discussion with like minded people, doesn't matter what you did/ or happen to you, it's important for your voice to be heard the same as anyone else,
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Originally posted by Hawco
wish that there was a AH convention coming up so you could say hello to them.
You live in the Bay Area? Me too. Maybe we could meet for a beer.
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sure pm me some time, I'm in Sacramento, where are you about?
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Don't know anything about it, never experienced it...luckily lived a trauma free life (knock on wood)
My condolences, I truely hope you feel better and your suffering ends soon.
I have to wonder though if playing a war game is maybe not the best thing.
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SO was the first post deleted cause it was fake or what?