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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: storch on February 15, 2007, 10:25:08 PM

Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 15, 2007, 10:25:08 PM
apparently tim hardaway spoke his mind, (something that should never be done) and stated in an interview that he hated gays and would not play on a team that had gay players.

in typical PC fashion the local media is all over the story here.  has it made the nationals yet?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: DiabloTX on February 15, 2007, 10:26:29 PM
Oh yeah, big time.  First saw it this morning on the Today show.

If not not politically correct, at least he's honest.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: john9001 on February 15, 2007, 10:27:38 PM
and tim hardaway is who?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Toad on February 15, 2007, 10:29:12 PM
Hardaway only thinks he knows what "hate" means.

He has now kicked the hornet's nest of liberal social mores and he is about to find out what true hate means.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 15, 2007, 10:34:06 PM
the funny thing is he owns a upscale carwash in the biggest gay community in south florida.  I guess he may as well takes his sponges home now.  hell hath no fury as a homo taunted, let alone the whole world of them.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: DiabloTX on February 15, 2007, 10:35:03 PM
Oh boy, here come all the spit drivers...
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Holden McGroin on February 15, 2007, 10:42:51 PM
Shouldn't we, as good citizens of a tolerant society, tolerate Tim Hardaway?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: midnight Target on February 15, 2007, 10:44:44 PM
He has every right to sound like an idiot.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 15, 2007, 10:47:43 PM
why do you think he sounds like an idiot?  is it all that different from saying I'm a francophobe?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mustaine on February 15, 2007, 10:49:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
and tim hardaway is who?
yeah :huh
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: dryroasted on February 15, 2007, 10:51:33 PM
I respect his right to say what he will and will defend to the death his right to do so, that being said hating someone for doing something to another willing pertisapent is like me hating you for breathing *Even know I do :D * it just makes you look like a ignorant tard......and not the kind that we are nice to and try to help i mean the kind that we take outback and beat with shovels and stomp on......im looking at you Carlos
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Holden McGroin on February 15, 2007, 11:04:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by dryroasted
I respect his right to say what he will and will defend to the death his right to do so, trhat being said hating someone for doing something to another willing pertisapent is like me hating you for breathing


But I don't breathe to another pertisapent... partisapant... participant....
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: dryroasted on February 15, 2007, 11:07:48 PM
i have bad spelling.....so sue me


yes but does your sex life affect him?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: john9001 on February 15, 2007, 11:11:26 PM
google has a free spell checker.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: doobs on February 15, 2007, 11:11:58 PM
And the NBA told Hardaway he will not be needed for any events in Las Vegas for the all star game.

gotta luv the first admendment melting away
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Holden McGroin on February 15, 2007, 11:16:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by doobs
And the NBA told Hardaway he will not be needed for any events in Las Vegas for the all star game.

gotta luv the first admendment melting away


What law did congress pass which abridged Tim Hardaway's speech rights?  I must have missed it....
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: LePaul on February 15, 2007, 11:26:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Shouldn't we, as good citizens of a tolerant society, tolerate Tim Hardaway?


That's an awesome response!

But you know, before the weeks out, he'll be crying and holding hands with the Queer Eye gang
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: SteveBailey on February 15, 2007, 11:38:02 PM
I do not understand the choice homosexuals make, but I think it was pretty darned foolish for him to say "Hate".  Isn't there a quote that goes something like:  "We hate that which we don't understand"?

I think he has a right to express himself.... but ultimately he chose his words poorly.  just my $.02.



Steve
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Sixpence on February 16, 2007, 12:04:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SteveBailey
I do not understand the choice homosexuals make


Steve


I read somewhere, and it kind of made sense, is that it's a genetic defect. You read about gays who married the opposite sex, even had children, because they were trying to fight the feelings they have. They usually divorce and do what comes natural to them.

So it really isn't a choice, it is what's natural to them.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Hornet33 on February 16, 2007, 12:28:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
I read somewhere, and it kind of made sense, is that it's a genetic defect. You read about gays who married the opposite sex, even had children, because they were trying to fight the feelings they have. They usually divorce and do what comes natural to them.

So it really isn't a choice, it is what's natural to them.


Gee I have an urge to kill people from time to time. Does that mean I have a genetic defect and that if I do kill someone I was only doing what was natural for me to do and it will be OK?? I didn't think so.

It's a choice, plain and simple. It's also disgusting in the extreme. The fact that people want it to be excepted as normal, and will persecute anyone through the media that says what Tim Hardaway said is a bunch of crap. He has his right to say whatever he wants. I hope he sticks to his morals and doesn't allow the media to get the best of him.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: rpm on February 16, 2007, 01:03:27 AM
Hating is wrong, m'kay?

Seriously, Hardaway just proved how uneducated and bigoted he is. Hating and wanting to ban a person from the NBA because of his sexual orientation is just as bigoted as hating someone because of the color of his skin.

The NBA is struggling to keep the WNBA afloat. I wonder how many homosexuals there are in THAT league. Of course they don't want some bonehead representing the NBA.

Yes, Hardaway has freedom of speach to say how he feels about gays. The NBA also has the right to hire/fire any employee for their actions.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Debonair on February 16, 2007, 01:07:27 AM
"with freedom comes responsibility....and gay sex, tons of it"
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Xargos on February 16, 2007, 04:29:41 AM
Funny thing is though that if he said that he hated "white people" he would be praised by the liberal media.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Kieran on February 16, 2007, 06:18:13 AM
C'mon. It's the Dixie Chicks all over. Or MG over at AGW. People have the right to say whatever dumb thing they want to say, but they also have the responsibility of facing the consequences whenever they do.

Anyone in the entertainment industry (and sports are entertainment) should understand what impact your words can have. More than that, anyone in the public eye should understand the media survives by shoveling dirt.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 16, 2007, 06:39:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hornet33
Gee I have an urge to kill people from time to time. Does that mean I have a genetic defect and that if I do kill someone I was only doing what was natural for me to do and it will be OK?? I didn't think so.

It's a choice, plain and simple. It's also disgusting in the extreme. The fact that people want it to be excepted as normal, and will persecute anyone through the media that says what Tim Hardaway said is a bunch of crap. He has his right to say whatever he wants. I hope he sticks to his morals and doesn't allow the media to get the best of him.


Difference is you only have the urge to kill people from time to time ands not all the time.
The vast majority of gays have no interest in members of the opposite sex and have never had interest in teh opposiite sex.
If you wanted to kill someone all the time then yea. You might have a genetic defect

That being said. Being born gay in the majority of cases IS a genetic defect or an abnormality much like haveing 6 toes is an abnormality.

It is however normal for them just as having 6 toes is normal for the person with 6 toes because they have always been that way.

However. Considering only about 5% of the population is gay, it certainly isnt the "norm" and puts being homosexual pretty much in line with the birth defect rate of the general population of 4%
http://www.genetics.emory.edu/pdf/Emory_Human_Genetics_General_Population_Risk_for_Birth_Defects.PDF (http://www.genetics.emory.edu/pdf/Emory_Human_Genetics_General_Population_Risk_for_Birth_Defects.PDF)

Now Is a gay person bad? No.
Being gay no more make a person bad then having 6 toes makes a person bad. It is however an abnormality no matter what way to try to slice it.
It does not however mean the rest of the population should feel bad for Them anymore then we should feel bad about a person who has 6 toes.


All that being said.
Hardaway like the rest of us has the absolute right. To like or dislike anyone or anything for whatever reason he wants. And to say so.
 So long as he does not act out to harm someone.

There is always going to be something people arent going to like for whatever reason.

Hardaway at least has the guts to say how he truely feels. The majority of people do not.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 16, 2007, 07:37:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by LePaul
That's an awesome response!

But you know, before the weeks out, he'll be crying and holding hands with the Queer Eye gang
good call.  seems that he's already back pedaling.  maybe he'll be dating rupaul by saturday and kick starting both of their careers.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: midnight Target on February 16, 2007, 08:00:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
why do you think he sounds like an idiot?  is it all that different from saying I'm a francophobe?



You're scared of hot dogs?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 16, 2007, 08:01:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Hating is wrong, m'kay?

Seriously, Hardaway just proved how uneducated and bigoted he is. Hating and wanting to ban a person from the NBA because of his sexual orientation is just as bigoted as hating someone because of the color of his skin.

The NBA is struggling to keep the WNBA afloat. I wonder how many homosexuals there are in THAT league. Of course they don't want some bonehead representing the NBA.

Yes, Hardaway has freedom of speach to say how he feels about gays. The NBA also has the right to hire/fire any employee for their actions.



Just because you see nothing wrong with Gays does not mean anyone who does is "uneducated and bigoted ".

I personally believe there is something mentally wrong with Gays.  

I just wonder how long till the Special Olympics starts sending out Pink invites.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: midnight Target on February 16, 2007, 08:13:26 AM
I think hating someone for something that they have no control over is the definition of bigoted.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Toad on February 16, 2007, 08:27:55 AM
Now there's a lovely red herring.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 16, 2007, 08:36:02 AM
So are they going to ship him off to rehab to reprogram him?:rolleyes:
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 16, 2007, 08:37:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
I think hating someone for something that they have no control over is the definition of bigoted.


A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigot

I don't know the man personally so I can't say he  does/doesn't fit this description.

I don't know if he doesn't like gays because something happened to him or if it's just the thought of gays that bothers him.

To say he is "Uneducated and a Bigot" without knowing him shows that you yourself are showing the signs of being the very same thing you claim he is.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 16, 2007, 08:44:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
I think hating someone for something that they have no control over is the definition of bigoted.


Really? So you can make yourself like behavior you hate, or do you just cover up hatred more eloquently than I? In short, are you wiser , more Godly than I? Have you indeed broken the chains of human suspicion and fear of that which isn't familiar?



And most importantly, are you rubbing it in?;)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Red Tail 444 on February 16, 2007, 08:48:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX
Oh boy, here come all the spit drivers...


:D :rofl

No....doubt :lol
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Jackal1 on February 16, 2007, 09:10:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
I think hating someone for something that they have no control over is the definition of bigoted.




Wheeeeew doggies Jethro. Go get Granny and her shootin iron.
At least use a cammo net. :)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 16, 2007, 09:13:11 AM
I found this article on espn.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2766213

John Amaechi, a retired NBA player who just came out said about the remarks

Quote
"Finally, someone who is honest," he said. "It is ridiculous, absurd, petty, bigoted and shows a lack of empathy that is gargantuan and unfathomable. But it is honest. And it illustrates the problem better than any of the fuzzy language other people have used so far."


What fuzzy language? Could it be this from the same article?

Quote
While (NBA commissioner) Stern said a discussion about openly gay players could be part of future rookie orientation programs, he doesn't see a need to address the league.

"This is an issue overall that has fascinated America. It's not an NBA issue," Stern said, pointing to the ongoing debate over gay marriage at the state and federal levels.

"This is a country that needs to talk about this issue," he said. "And, not surprisingly, they use sports as a catalyst to begin the dialogue."


That's some fancy dancing there - its also a bunch of BS designed to take up time without saying anything.


As another poster said, sports is part of the entertainment industry. Since the entertainment industry engages in Madison Avenue religion (offend no one that may buy your product), any that pursue that path should be prepared to be under the thumb of a very fickled boss. What is right and wrong will probably change on a daily basis.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 16, 2007, 09:21:14 AM
It's no big deal..

He will go to some kind of rehab for a couple of weeks and be "cured" and all will be forgiven.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Xargos on February 16, 2007, 09:23:29 AM
Rehab?  Call it what it really is...BRAINWASHING.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Airscrew on February 16, 2007, 09:33:59 AM
Heard this last night and again this morning, "Tim Hardaway hates gays"
My response "So what"  big deal so he hates gays.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 16, 2007, 09:37:58 AM
it's amazing how much influence 3% of the population has over the culture.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 16, 2007, 09:38:47 AM
xargos... I doubt that much brainwashing can be accomplished in two weeks of showing up to a class an hour at a time.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Bodhi on February 16, 2007, 09:46:13 AM
I hate everyone equally
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Xargos on February 16, 2007, 10:11:09 AM
Guess I should have said attempted brainwashing.   :p
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 16, 2007, 10:29:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
I read somewhere, and it kind of made sense, is that it's a genetic defect. You read about gays who married the opposite sex, even had children, because they were trying to fight the feelings they have. They usually divorce and do what comes natural to them.

So it really isn't a choice, it is what's natural to them.


The reality is that we really don't know what makes a person gay.  Is it a choice?  Is it genetic?

I believe it is a choice, but that doesn't change anything.  I'll be the first person to yell when you try to tell me what I can or can't do.  Who am I to say what another person can do?  The same goes for everyone here.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 16, 2007, 10:30:21 AM
you might have missed my sarcasm.

rehab is what every celebrity... anyone in the spotlight.... does to get out of any jam they get into...  there is no real value in the rehab and it is used for the sole purpose of getting out of some embarassment of career ender that they blunder into.

They pretend to be rehabilitated and we pretend to believe them..  Why? cause we like to watch the train wreck that is their lives.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: midnight Target on February 16, 2007, 10:49:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BTW
Really? So you can make yourself like behavior you hate, or do you just cover up hatred more eloquently than I? In short, are you wiser , more Godly than I? Have you indeed broken the chains of human suspicion and fear of that which isn't familiar?



And most importantly, are you rubbing it in?;)


Homosexuality is not a "behavior". It is part of what a person is and is no different than eye color or skin color or using your left hand to write.

And yes I'm rubbing it in.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Masherbrum on February 16, 2007, 11:00:34 AM
Personally, I can careless.   Amaechi had a trivial career in the NBA, and now needs some attention.  

Of course, Hardaway could've handled this better than he did.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 16, 2007, 11:06:08 AM
the fact that you are are or are not a homo is not behavior... what you do with it is...

Most of us would be repulsed seeing really ugly people making out in public... it is even worse seeing homosexuals doing it... this is a natural reaction and part of human empathy.

You could say that you "hate" this behavior.  Nothing wrong with that...  you could say that you hate it when people do that..  You could even say that you would not be around people who did.  

To simply hate the person based on his sexual preference is kinda strange tho.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: SteveBailey on February 16, 2007, 11:13:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
I read somewhere, and it kind of made sense, is that it's a genetic defect. You read about gays who married the opposite sex, even had children, because they were trying to fight the feelings they have. They usually divorce and do what comes natural to them.

So it really isn't a choice, it is what's natural to them.


Are you stalking me?  Just about everywhere I post you come back with an argument.  you can believe all that feel good genetic BS if you want.. I don't.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 16, 2007, 11:17:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Homosexuality is not a "behavior". It is part of what a person is and is no different than eye color or skin color or using your left hand to write.

And yes I'm rubbing it in.


So say you. But that is the debate about sexuality - is it learned behavior, genetic, or a combination. Glad you figured it out. How do you explain identical twins of different sexual orientations?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 16, 2007, 11:37:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
the fact that you are are or are not a homo is not behavior... what you do with it is...
 


That is definitely one side of the debate. It is by no means a proven fact.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Toad on February 16, 2007, 12:09:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BTW
So say you. But that is the debate about sexuality - is it learned behavior, genetic, or a combination. Glad you figured it out. How do you explain identical twins of different sexual orientations?


The straight one is still in the closet?


Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Hap on February 16, 2007, 12:13:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by doobs
And the NBA told Hardaway he will not be needed for any events in Las Vegas for the all star game.

gotta luv the first admendment melting away


Doobs, I guess we have different copies of the Constitution at home.  Mine is missing the part "and your employer will keep you employed no matter what you say publicly."



hap

p.s.  fwiw, I've no truck with the guy's radio interview.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Guppy35 on February 16, 2007, 12:17:08 PM
Every once in a while there is a thread in here that makes me extremely disappointed in people.

This is one of them.  Are you guys even reading what you are  writing?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Hap on February 16, 2007, 12:19:11 PM
No they aren't Guppy.  They have no mind.  Mindless ingoramuses.

The Consitution doesn't protect you like your Mommy's apron.

"You Stink!"  Now, make sure I still get my pay check since I'm in the entertainment business which depends on the public's good will to survive.

I've no truck with the guys radio interview.  Samuel Johnson said "everyman is entitled to voice his opinion and every other man is entitled to knock him down for it.

Since when did telling the truth about anything come without a cost?




hap


p.s.  racial origin proportionates homosexuality?????
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: kamilyun on February 16, 2007, 12:33:13 PM
This thread is ghey :rolleyes:

(http://www.zoofur.com/bulls.jpg)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: rpm on February 16, 2007, 12:51:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytbigot
Just because you see nothing wrong with Gays does not mean anyone who does is "uneducated and bigoted ".
Actually, thats exactly what it means.

Is someone who hates people based on the color of their skin uneducated and bigoted or are they actually the ones that know what's "right and wrong"?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 16, 2007, 02:16:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hornet33

It's a choice, plain and simple. It's also disgusting in the extreme.



Did you choose to be straight?  Did you wake up one morning and say, "Gee, I want to feel the heavenly pleasures of a woman!" and then declare yourself hetrosexual?  Or you just doing something that comes natural to you?


ack-ack
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 16, 2007, 02:27:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Did you choose to be straight?  Did you wake up one morning and say, "Gee, I want to feel the heavenly pleasures of a woman!" and then declare yourself hetrosexual?  Or you just doing something that comes natural to you?


ack-ack


Are you gay?  Do you know from experience how about a person becomes gay?


No, you don't (unless you are actually a homosexual).  The fact of the matter is that the only people that know the truth are the homosexuals.  And because they are the only ones who know, no one else knows and they can automatically pick the position that strengthens their side of the argument.  Because we have no standpoint from experience to counter it.

So they pick the position that homosexuality is natural and not a choice.  This may be true, it may not be.  The chances of us straight people finding out anytime soon is slim to nil.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 16, 2007, 02:34:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Are you gay?  Do you know from experience how about a person becomes gay?




No, I'm not gay but considering hetrosexuality came naturally to me, why isn't it hard to believe that the same can be said of homosexuals?  

And from reading the posts from the majority in here, you guys sure know what it takes to be gay.


ack-ack
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Silat on February 16, 2007, 02:43:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Did you choose to be straight?  Did you wake up one morning and say, "Gee, I want to feel the heavenly pleasures of a woman!" and then declare yourself hetrosexual?  Or you just doing something that comes natural to you?


ack-ack



Ack why oh why are the righties spending so much time thinking about gay sex?
I think they have some inner conflict:)
And I asked someone in this thread along time ago about his "Choice" to be hetero. He never answered. I wanted the date and time of his decision to be hetero.
As for me I never had to choose I was born loving women.

                          :)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Guppy35 on February 16, 2007, 03:36:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Are you gay?  Do you know from experience how about a person becomes gay?


No, you don't (unless you are actually a homosexual).  The fact of the matter is that the only people that know the truth are the homosexuals.  And because they are the only ones who know, no one else knows and they can automatically pick the position that strengthens their side of the argument.  Because we have no standpoint from experience to counter it.

So they pick the position that homosexuality is natural and not a choice.  This may be true, it may not be.  The chances of us straight people finding out anytime soon is slim to nil.


Well lets see.  My wife's brother is homosexual.  Considering his father will no longer speak to him and he is unwelcome at his parents home, there's nothing in that to speak to him making that decision.  He's paid an awful price for it.

Now if you met him, you'd never know.  His partner is a great guy too.  My wife's brother is an architect and active in community etc.  Again.  It sure wasn't a choice for him, and I respect his courage for coming out, knowing what it cost him.

My cousin, son of loving parents, his father is a minister and mother is a nurse.  He struggled with it a long time before finally coming out.  Again in talking to him, it was never a choice just a recognition that it was what he was.  He works as a teacher, has always helped people, never been a threat or pushed his lifestyle on anyone.  If you met him you'd never know.  He married his partner and they seem to do just fine.

Guy I roomed with when I went to England for a semester during college.  Godfather to my son.  He struggled with it most of all, coming from a strict catholic family.  They laid a lot of shame and guilt on him.  He tried dating etc to 'make himself' change, but he was miserable.  I respect his courage in coming out as well as his was the most difficult based on how he'd been raised.  It too cost him his family because they couldn't deal with it.  Yet if you met him, you'd have no idea.  Just another good person.  He too has spent his adult life working with and helping people.

Does it mean that I would choose that lifestyle?  Nope, I wasn't made that way. Married 25 years happily.    Based on the pain and struggles I've seen those three go through, they'd not have chosen it, had it been a choice.

But far be it from me to condemn them anymore then they should condemn me for my life.  I'll judge them based on their actions and on the good people they are instead, as I would hope they would judge me.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 16, 2007, 04:07:54 PM
I'm sorry, we're you trying to qualify their decisions by how good of a person they are?

I know gay people as well.  That doesn't mean I have a standpoint from which only I can speak of it.


But just because you don't agree with what they do in a bed room doesn't mean you should judge them for what they do outside.  As long as it's consenting adults, it doesn't matter to me what they do.  Don't ask me to agree with it though.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: kamilyun on February 16, 2007, 05:01:14 PM
Is girl on girl action bad, too?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: LePaul on February 16, 2007, 05:01:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
it's amazing how much influence 3% of the population has over the culture.


Word.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: midnight Target on February 16, 2007, 06:03:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'm sorry, we're you trying to qualify their decisions by how good of a person they are?
 


No, he was pointing out, in a pretty substantive way, how he is convinced that it is not a choice. Are you being purposely dense?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 16, 2007, 06:29:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
No, he was pointing out, in a pretty substantive way, how he is convinced that it is not a choice. Are you being purposely dense?


And I think he's right. I didn't wake up one day and decide "hmmm do I want to like girls or boys?" But having it not be a choice doesn't mean its strictly genetic. There are cases that refute BOTH arguments that make it apparent its a complex combination. But to try to isolate sexuality from behavior, IMO, is ridiculous. That is if you aren't viewing behavior as just the sex act.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: GtoRA2 on February 16, 2007, 07:37:03 PM
The guy is free to make any statement he wants. Hell he could be a klucker for all I care.

He is a sports figure, what he thinks and says means NOTHING.


Now he will pay for his words.


Freedom of speech only protects you from the government. If the NBA wants to can his dumb bellybutton for saying what prolly 90% of their players think, then that's their right.


Freedom of speech is for protecting US from the government. Not from our employers.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 16, 2007, 10:40:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
The guy is free to make any statement he wants. Hell he could be a klucker for all I care.

He is a sports figure, what he thinks and says means NOTHING.


Now he will pay for his words.


Freedom of speech only protects you from the government. If the NBA wants to can his dumb bellybutton for saying what prolly 90% of their players think, then that's their right.


Freedom of speech is for protecting US from the government. Not from our employers.


Yea thats all well and fine but the NBA commissioner said this:

Quote
"This is an issue overall that has fascinated America. It's not an NBA issue," Stern said, pointing to the ongoing debate over gay marriage at the state and federal levels.

"This is a country that needs to talk about this issue," he said. "And, not surprisingly, they use sports as a catalyst to begin the dialogue."


I don't think you encourage dialogue by imposing employment penalties for one who states his preferences. That makes the NBA commissioner nothing but a hypocrite . Anyone here can think of a better, less vindictive way to deal with that situation? I can think of at least twenty that would've opened dialogue and not polarized the issue. I guess the NBA commissioner is kinda dumb.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Debonair on February 17, 2007, 12:36:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by (http://www.xhaven.net/prismaticlabs/BuddyIcons/Kramer.gif)
tim hardaway sux
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 17, 2007, 10:01:51 AM
btw... not sure about all this..  Are you saying that identical twins are identical human beings?

Are you also saying that gays aren't different in their sexual preference until someone or something changes them from straight to gay?    That is is not a force of nature?

Are you saying that a straight person could be made to prefer gay sex over hetro sex?  

none of that seems very logical to me.  

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Kieran on February 17, 2007, 10:12:37 AM
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences of what you say. If your job is dependent on what people think about you, then the backlash of your words is something that should always be on your mind.

The Dixie Chicks cried "foul" when they were held accountable for their ill-advised statements about Bush.

Michael Richards sure wishes he could take back a certain obscenity-laced tantrum.

John Rocker might have done things differently given the choice to do it again.

It's not unheard of, you know, that a job would be dependent upon the public face one presents.

BUT... I guess it only matters whose ox is getting gored...
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 17, 2007, 10:45:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
btw... not sure about all this..  Are you saying that identical twins are identical human beings?

Are you also saying that gays aren't different in their sexual preference until someone or something changes them from straight to gay?    That is is not a force of nature?

Are you saying that a straight person could be made to prefer gay sex over hetro sex?  

none of that seems very logical to me.  

lazs


Genetically, identical twins are er... identical. They have the exact same DNA. So, genetically they are identical human beings. (BTW, although identical twins have identical DNA, they  have different finger prints! Its a phenotype trait) And there are cases where identical twins have different sexual orientations. That pretty much rules out the fact that sexual orientation exclusively genetic- like skin color or eye color. There is also a famous case profiled in various media source (e.g., The Rolling Stone, 60 minutes, Dateline), telling the story of a boy who was raised as a girl after a botched circumcision. Although the individual believed he was a girl growing up, he thought he was a lesbian because his attraction was toward girls. In spite of environment, his heterosexuality was dominant. I don't study human sexuality, but I remember these cases being sited when the debate on the reason for sexual orientation came into the news some years ago. Then, I believe the scientific consensus is sexual orientation is a combination of environment, chemistry, and genetics. To say that environment or behavior has no effect on sexual orientation is just as wrong as saying genetics have no effect on sexual orientation.

I don't know what a force of nature is in this context ( all these forces are natural), but as I stated above, I believe sexual orientation is established in a complex process of genetics, chemistry and environment.

As for as changing an individuals orientation, I don't think we're even close to that. We're not even sure what happens to create a specific orientation, let alone change it or if it can be changed (e.g., can you unring a bell?)

When people stand up and arrogantly proclaim they know the reason for sexual orientation, you can bet its politically biased. We don't have the science- not even close.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 17, 2007, 11:01:27 AM
so if they have different fingerprints then they are.... not identical.  

I say this because I have know identical twins and they are never identical.

I don't claim to know all the reasons someone is straight or gay but even you admit that at least a portion of it is hardwired into us.  

I think that a certain small percentage of us will always be hardwired to be homosexual.   We have to learn to tolerate it as best we can.  they don't need to be treated better than the rest of us tho.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: bj229r on February 17, 2007, 05:22:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by kamilyun
Is girl on girl action bad, too?


I was wonderin same thing...I'm pretty sure there is a loophole which makes that cool:aok

Ya know..if Hardaway was a crack addict who beat up his wife and gambled away his money, he would be assigned victim status, due to his poor childhood
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 17, 2007, 06:05:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
so if they have different fingerprints then they are.... not identical.  

I say this because I have know identical twins and they are never identical.

I don't claim to know all the reasons someone is straight or gay but even you admit that at least a portion of it is hardwired into us.  

I think that a certain small percentage of us will always be hardwired to be homosexual.   We have to learn to tolerate it as best we can.  they don't need to be treated better than the rest of us tho.

lazs


Well genetically they are identical. They could have different hair cuts, a different number of limbs, and different tastes in music, but their DNA is exactly the same- as same as if they were cloned. I think in the context of this discussion ,i.e., the genetic component of sexuality, that's identical.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: FiLtH on February 18, 2007, 12:25:02 AM
So a guy hates someone. Big deal.

    I hate the world.

   Bring it!
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Jackal1 on February 18, 2007, 09:30:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
So a guy hates someone. Big deal.

    I hate the world.

   Bring it!


Do you buy the old bit that the world was this way naturaly or that a choice was made? :rofl
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lukster on February 18, 2007, 09:48:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
C'mon. It's the Dixie Chicks all over. Or MG over at AGW. People have the right to say whatever dumb thing they want to say, but they also have the responsibility of facing the consequences whenever they do.

Anyone in the entertainment industry (and sports are entertainment) should understand what impact your words can have. More than that, anyone in the public eye should understand the media survives by shoveling dirt.


I don't think he'll be showered with Grammies for his negativity.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 18, 2007, 09:58:51 AM
btw.. if they have different fingerprints then they are different..  if they have different IQ's they are different.   maybe dna is not all there is to us?   to blindly say that it is the only thing that determines our physical makeup is very blind..  what happened to them when they were being formed in the womb?   why would one be more mechanicaly inclined than the other from birth or have a different IQ?  

As for why girl on girl action doesn't bother most of us (men)?  that is quite simple too... if we are empathetic... we put ourselves in the picture... there is nothing wrong for a hetro male to put himself in that picture.   win win for him.

the whole homophobe weirdness is simply not understanding our empathetic nature... by either side of the issue.. the homophobes cant explain why they hate to see gays and the gays cant understand why it disgusts the hetro.

It is natural behavior tho no matter what... it is natural for the gays to act on their impulses and it is natural for us to be disgusted when we witness it.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 18, 2007, 03:09:44 PM
well sure enough "tim hardaway's hand carwash" is no longer at the intersection of US1/Bird Road.  I guess tim doesn't get to hand rub the gay's cars any longer either.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 18, 2007, 04:51:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
btw.. if they have different fingerprints then they are different..  if they have different IQ's they are different.   maybe dna is not all there is to us?   to blindly say that it is the only thing that determines our physical makeup is very blind..  what happened to them when they were being formed in the womb?   why would one be more mechanicaly inclined than the other from birth or have a different IQ?  
lazs


Yes, saying DNA is all that affects an individual would be ignorant of all the things that shape an individual including phenotype traits. That why I told Midnight Target he was wrong when he stated homosexuality was strictly genetic, like race. That's why I gave the example of identical twins. Identical twins are identical genetically. The miles and miles of DNA are exactly the same, every centimeter, every atom , exactly the same, unchanging, no nuances, but completely indistinguishable from the other. That's why I stated identical twins are genetically identical. They are. If on has a genetic heart defect, the other will have that same genetic heart defect. If one has any genetic disability or asset, the other will also have it. If sexual orientation was only genetic, both would have the same sexual orientation because there genes are identical.

Sexual orientation is not only genetic (like race) and that's why I brought up the twins. It wasn't to blindly state DNA was all there is to an individual. That type of thinking has led to atrocities in this world.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 19, 2007, 10:36:02 AM
ok... again... if dna is all that there is to our physical makeup... if there is nothing else...  how then do you explain the different fingerprints... and not just some of the time... all the time.

Does it not seem reasonable that if some genetic charactiristic... something that effects how we are formed, can give us different fingerprints (outside of dna) that there is also something that is genetic that determines how we are formed sexualy?

I tend to believe the homo's are homos from the womb.   They can't be "cured" any more than a hetro can be.

I believe that what you are talking about is the shallower but just as strong...  behavior.

I pass no judgement on right or wrong.. it is what it is... but gays don't hurt me any.   Child molesters do.   They can't be "cured" either but they are a real problem... not like some gay boogey man.   I don't have the energy to hate gays.

I hate socialist democrats a lot more than I hate gays.  

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Shaky on February 19, 2007, 11:00:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I pass no judgement on right or wrong.. it is what it is... but gays don't hurt me any.  


Anger at gay book for child, 5 (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/02/08/1170524214320.html?page=fullpage)

Kids take back seat to gay agenda (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/03/15/kids_take_back_seat_to_gay_agenda/)

Critics Slam 'Gay Agenda' in Public Schools (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,52098,00.html)

HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA ESCALATES IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS (http://www.newswithviews.com/public_schools/public_schools1.htm)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: midnight Target on February 19, 2007, 11:16:01 AM
Twin studies and Homosexuality (http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/sexorient/twins.html)

There seems to ba a link between genetics and homosexuality.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 19, 2007, 11:28:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
ok... again... if dna is all that there is to our physical makeup... if there is nothing else...  how then do you explain the different fingerprints... and not just some of the time... all the time.

Does it not seem reasonable that if some genetic charactiristic... something that effects how we are formed, can give us different fingerprints (outside of dna) that there is also something that is genetic that determines how we are formed sexualy?

I tend to believe the homo's are homos from the womb.   They can't be "cured" any more than a hetro can be.

I believe that what you are talking about is the shallower but just as strong...  behavior.

I pass no judgement on right or wrong.. it is what it is... but gays don't hurt me any.   Child molesters do.   They can't be "cured" either but they are a real problem... not like some gay boogey man.   I don't have the energy to hate gays.

I hate socialist democrats a lot more than I hate gays.  

lazs


I explain why identical twins have different finger prints the same way I've explained it the last three times, that fingerprints are a phenotype trait. But I don't expect you to read that as you haven't read it the three previous times I posted it. I also don't expect you to quote me when you say I've claimed something different, because you can't.

And I never stated DNA was all there is to an individual's makeup. I stated we are a product of genetics, chemistry, and environment. But I don't expect you to read THAT as you haven't read it in the tree previous times I posted it. I also don't expect you to quote me when saying I said something else, because you can't.

I do fully expect you to use the word "homo" again and call me shallow.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: eskimo2 on February 19, 2007, 12:45:00 PM
I’ve never understood why so many folks care so much and get so angry over what other people do in their bedrooms.  I find homosexuality interesting, but I can’t imagine getting upset over it or feeling threatened by it.  Gays are.  So what?  

Just for the record, I think that homosexuality is usually genetic, but sometimes learned.  Some folks are wired to be gay no matter what; some are wired to be straight no matter what.  Then there’s a group in the middle who could swing either way depending on circumstances and society.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 20, 2007, 09:07:18 AM
btw.. LOL...  ok.. so now you say that dna may not be all there is to a persons genetics... something had to make em have different fingerprints.   different skin pigmentation.. you agree that there are slight differences in twins?

I am saying that you can't prove that being a homo isn't genetic.   You/we don't know enough.   You are welcome to your theory.   I am not even sure that we are able to find slight differences in dna at this point.

shaky... you are talking about political agendas not a sexual preference.  Gays do not threaten me... the agendas of some gay groups do.  Womanly democrat socialists threaten me more tho.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 20, 2007, 09:21:59 AM
I don't know about genetics, what I do know is that science has not been able to find the gay gene.  not for lack of trying either.  I don't understand how some people on the one hand demand scientific proof of God, then in the same breath express belief in darwinism and the gay gene.  I guess there is just no way to account for a person's religious preferrences.

I had a cousin now dead from complications of buttbopitis who was queer before I knew what queer was.  I think he was born that way.  I also know he decided to participate in a lifestyle that was abnormal and harmful to him, ultimately killing him.

gays are a sad lot.  I have no idea why they call themselves gay, unless it's used in the same way some people call the fat guy slim or the bald guy curly.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Xargos on February 20, 2007, 09:31:57 AM
What I resent are people telling me I have to accept certain lifestyles and they constantly shove it in my face and that I have no right to tell them to bug off.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: midnight Target on February 20, 2007, 10:10:45 AM
Quote
Bailey and Pillard (1991): occurrence of homosexuality among brothers
52% of identical (monozygotic) twins of homosexual men were likewise homosexual
22% of fraternal (dizygotic) twins were likewise homosexual
11% of adoptive brothers of homosexual men were likewise homosexual


If genetics doesn't have anything to do with it, how would you explain the huge difference between fraternal and identical twins in this study.

All you can really say is that genetics doesn't account for everything. You certainly can't support the argument that it accounts for nothing.

I also wonder about folks who admit that gays are likely born that way yet they still insist that the "lifestyle" was chosen. LOL.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 20, 2007, 11:52:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
btw.. LOL...  ok.. so now you say that dna may not be all there is to a persons genetics... something had to make em have different fingerprints.   different skin pigmentation.. you agree that there are slight differences in twins?

I am saying that you can't prove that being a homo isn't genetic.   You/we don't know enough.   You are welcome to your theory.   I am not even sure that we are able to find slight differences in dna at this point.

shaky... you are talking about political agendas not a sexual preference.  Gays do not threaten me... the agendas of some gay groups do.  Womanly democrat socialists threaten me more tho.

lazs


This from my 2-17 post
Quote
Genetically, identical twins are er... identical. They have the exact same DNA. So, genetically they are identical human beings. (BTW, although identical twins have identical DNA, they have different finger prints! Its a phenotype trait)


Identical twins are genetically identical. Either you really don't get it or you are  foolishly trying to misrepresent what I've stated. What I've stated is on the board for anyone to read. The fact that you have not once quoted where I *supposedly* stated DNA was all there was to an individual makes it pretty clear you've resorted to misrepresentation in lieu of an actual argument.

This is alos from my 2-17 post
Quote
I don't know what a force of nature is in this context ( all these forces are natural), but as I stated above, I believe sexual orientation is established in a complex process of genetics, chemistry and environment.

As for as changing an individuals orientation, I don't think we're even close to that. We're not even sure what happens to create a specific orientation, let alone change it or if it can be changed (e.g., can you unring a bell?)

When people stand up and arrogantly proclaim they know the reason for sexual orientation, you can bet its politically biased. We don't have the science- not even close.


I never stated DNA was all there was to an individual, so I am not changing any claim. My claims are EXACTLY what they were on 2-17.  Either your comprehension is extremely poor or you have no intelligent argument. I really hope its the former, as the latter implies a juvenile need to right even after being slapped in the face with cold facts.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 20, 2007, 12:16:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
If genetics doesn't have anything to do with it, how would you explain the huge difference between fraternal and identical twins in this study.

All you can really say is that genetics doesn't account for everything. You certainly can't support the argument that it accounts for nothing.

I also wonder about folks who admit that gays are likely born that way yet they still insist that the "lifestyle" was chosen. LOL.


Quote the person or post that states genetics accounts for nothing in sexual orientation. Now I can quote a couple of post thats state behavior has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

Here's one
Quote
Homosexuality is not a "behavior". It is part of what a person is and is no different than eye color or skin color or using your left hand to write.


Here's another
Quote
the fact that you are are or are not a homo is not behavior... what you do with it is...


Both of these statements are FALSE. Denying the behavioral aspect of sexuality is just as wrong as denying the genetic and chemical aspects of sexuality.

I keep hearing of this phantom person who claims genetics have nothing to do with sexuality. Please do quote that post or posts. I've quoted the contrary.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 20, 2007, 02:26:10 PM
Ok... now I get it..  You are saying that you don't know anything about it?

I am saying that perhaps we don't know everything there is to know about DNA..   I am saying that is sure appears that genetics play a role in homosexuality and that what a homo does about it is.... behavior.

I don't know what about that you don't understand.

So spit it out...  do you or do you not think that people are born homosexuals?

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: GtoRA2 on February 20, 2007, 02:48:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
If genetics doesn't have anything to do with it, how would you explain the huge difference between fraternal and identical twins in this study.

All you can really say is that genetics doesn't account for everything. You certainly can't support the argument that it accounts for nothing.

I also wonder about folks who admit that gays are likely born that way yet they still insist that the "lifestyle" was chosen. LOL.


Thats very interesting, and sure to be ignored. ;)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Kieran on February 20, 2007, 02:51:53 PM
I gotcha Lazs, and I agree.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 20, 2007, 03:05:11 PM
:rolleyes:
It must be "natural forces" :rofl
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: midnight Target on February 20, 2007, 03:25:21 PM
Sooooo...

You are only hetero if you have sex with women?

Are you sure about that?


Cause I'd bet there are a lot of alt monkeys in here who wouldn't qualify.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 20, 2007, 03:42:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Sooooo...

You are only hetero if you have sex with women?

Are you sure about that?


Cause I'd bet there are a lot of alt monkeys in here who wouldn't qualify.


No. That's behavior in a vary narrow context - a sex act. And please, QUOTE me if you intend to attribute it to something I said.

Children learn behaviors from others as infants and as they grow. Children further develop through their behavior and how their behavior interacts with others. Human behavior is  the environment. Its not the smog that's shaping the sexuality. In the scientific consensus that genetics, chemistry, and environment contribute to an individuals sexuality, environment is a behavioral environment, not a physical environment

And I am sure about that.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: eskimo2 on February 20, 2007, 03:44:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
Sooooo...

You are only hetero if you have sex with women?

Are you sure about that?


Cause I'd bet there are a lot of alt monkeys in here who wouldn't qualify.


And to top it off, many homos get married and conceive children.  I’ve heard countless stories of married men who have “come out”.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: wulfie on February 20, 2007, 04:14:38 PM
If I were Hardaway...

I'd tape myself getting naked and slippery and sinful with a pair of smoking-hot lesbians.

I would then release the tape to the public as proof that I now had a newfound appreciation for homosexuality, and would repeat said behavior on a nightly basis to ensure that I gained an even greater understanding of the beauties of (2 smoking hot chicks showing their) homosexuality.

Lazs, do you know how to operate a high-end video camera?

I'm sure I can count on Funked as director, and the FDBs as writers.

Now all I have to do is figure out how to be a professional basketball player. :)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Thrawn on February 20, 2007, 10:48:04 PM
George Takei responds...


http://youtube.com/watch?v=-me8KUtXIWo&mode=related&search=
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Flatbar on February 21, 2007, 02:26:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
George Takei responds...


http://youtube.com/watch?v=-me8KUtXIWo&mode=related&search=




Very good response!!!!
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 21, 2007, 08:29:04 AM
you probly are a homo if you can't appreciate hot lesbian sex.

BTW...  you never answered.  Do you believe that people are born homosexual or not?  Are we born heterosexual or not?

What gene tells us men to like women?  what part of our dna?   Is is just brainwashing from our parents?

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 21, 2007, 08:54:35 AM
I guess the 19000 posts should have tipped me off.
Sorry Laz, but obviously you can't understand my point. I don't feel compelled to help you, because I think you are trolling. Have fun.:)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 21, 2007, 09:00:10 AM
so you are unwilling to answer the question?

Do you think that people are born with their sexual orientation or not?

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Thrawn on February 21, 2007, 09:18:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
so you are unwilling to answer the question?

Do you think that people are born with their sexual orientation or not?

lazs


I do, at least for the most part.  There is research that indicates that genetics plays a roll.  There is also research that indicates that the chemical makeup of the amniotic fluid that surrounds a fetus during gestation is probably a factor.  The more successive children a woman has the greater the chance that  the child will be gay.  And we aren't talking about a linear progression here.

Something like this.

1st child - 2% chance
2nd        - 4% chance
3rd         - 5% chance

etc...


Which makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint.  After awhile the "extra" offspring just become competition for mates, heck there genetic material is more or less the same as there siblings anyway.  It would be great if there was a mechanism to prevent them from being sexual competition...something like homosexuality perhaps?  Meanwhile they still have a genetic horse in race of making sure their nephews and nieces live long enough to procreate.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 21, 2007, 09:26:35 AM
Laz I've already stated I don't think people are "born gay"  (or homo as you like to say in some need to disparage and defend homosexuality at the same time) because of "natural forces" (whatever the heck that is in cowboy land). I've stated I believe pretty much what the scientific consensus states, that sexuality is formed from genetics, chemistry, and environment. I've stated it 4 days ago.
Its not a new idea. Its pretty much what the civilized world believes

Its not that I haven't answered, its that you don't like my answer.

Refute it if you don't like it! Or continue your Vinnie Barbarino troll - "What? Where?" I don't care.

You obviously can't be objective about the topic, so I'm no longer going to discuss it with you. If this post don't do it for you, go ask someone else. Its just boring me now.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 21, 2007, 09:33:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
so you are unwilling to answer the question?

Do you think that people are born with their sexual orientation or not?

lazs
the question was not directed at me but I'll take a stab at it as well.  I would agree that the condition is not by choice.  some people are just born that way.  Thrawn's pseudo-scientific response probably plays well enough to be accurate.  my gay cousin was the second son of the fifth child, a son (my uncle).  I also have an effiminate cousin from the same side of the family.  he's the second child of the first child, a daughter (my aunt).  while he's not openly gay, (married four kids) I believe he may have taken a college level course or two on the topic.  his first born son is a flamer, every time I see that kid I feel like calling fire rescue.  the third daughter from those grandparents (my aunt) is a lesbian.  so I guess there may be a genetic link because my grandfather had a brother who was queer, but they made him change his last name and he moved to france back in the 1930's.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 21, 2007, 11:05:17 AM
I agree that you are born gay or straight but it is a personal decision to act on those feelings.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: eskimo2 on February 21, 2007, 04:43:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
[B
Which makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint.  After awhile the "extra" offspring just become competition for mates, heck there genetic material is more or less the same as there siblings anyway.  It would be great if there was a mechanism to prevent them from being sexual competition...something like homosexuality perhaps?  Meanwhile they still have a genetic horse in race of making sure their nephews and nieces live long enough to procreate. [/B]


Also, the more siblings in a family the greater the evolutionary need for hair stylists, choreographers and interior decorators.  Eventually a big enough family just needs a gay brother.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Thrawn on February 21, 2007, 05:45:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
Also, the more siblings in a family the greater the evolutionary need for hair stylists, choreographers and interior decorators.


There's a PhD in there somewhere.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: GtoRA2 on February 21, 2007, 05:53:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy
I agree that you are born gay or straight but it is a personal decision to act on those feelings.




So if you were born gay, you would spend your life with a woman you didn't find attractive because you would feel it was wrong to act on your sexual feelings? Probably making both of you miserable?



You think that’s fair to ask someone who had no choice in it?

That makes sense to you?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Sandman on February 21, 2007, 08:46:28 PM
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7513892
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lukster on February 21, 2007, 10:51:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
I’ve never understood why so many folks care so much and get so angry over what other people do in their bedrooms.  I find homosexuality interesting, but I can’t imagine getting upset over it or feeling threatened by it.  Gays are.  So what?  

Just for the record, I think that homosexuality is usually genetic, but sometimes learned.  Some folks are wired to be gay no matter what; some are wired to be straight no matter what.  Then there’s a group in the middle who could swing either way depending on circumstances and society.


If it were confined to their bedroom I'd agree. However, many more are now at risk of being infected with AIDS which probably wouldn't be threatening so many were it not for the promiscuity of homosexuals. I'll agree that many heterosexuals wouldn't be at risk if not for their own promiscuity but still you must consider who is most responsible for spreading this deadly disease.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Thrawn on February 21, 2007, 11:03:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
If it were confined to their bedroom I'd agree. However, many more are now at risk of being infected with AIDS which probably wouldn't be threatening so many were it not for the promiscuity of homosexuals. I'll agree that many heterosexuals wouldn't be at risk if not for their own promiscuity but still you must consider who is most responsible for spreading this deadly disease.


Ah the joys of collective punishment, a page right out of Nazism.  Then let us blame Bush for 9/11 for he is caucasian male, just like the  terrorists were...wait a second...what race are you?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Debonair on February 22, 2007, 12:17:31 AM
zOMG this thread is SO GAY!!!1
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 22, 2007, 06:34:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Debonair
zOMG this thread is SO GAY!!!1
I guess you would know, being an expert and all.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 22, 2007, 06:46:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
If it were confined to their bedroom I'd agree. However, many more are now at risk of being infected with AIDS which probably wouldn't be threatening so many were it not for the promiscuity of homosexuals. I'll agree that many heterosexuals wouldn't be at risk if not for their own promiscuity but still you must consider who is most responsible for spreading this deadly disease.
you bring up a very good point.  consider the fact that early in the AIDS epidemic HIV was introduced into the national blood supply by infected homosexuals for the very purpose of contaminating non homosexual patients because many in the homosexual community thought that their plight was being ignored by the general population.  homosexuality is deviant lifestyle.  many practioners of this deviant sexual behavior are mal-adjusted people.  in another, more practical time period HIV victims would have been quarantined from the general population.  given that they are not and given how many partners homosexuals generally have it is reasonable to view all homosexuals as ambulatory health risks and a danger to society.  this view would not play well on the tree hugger news networks and as we see in the mr hardaway's example can quickly lead to financial ruin for any who hold this opinion.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Saintaw on February 22, 2007, 06:57:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
... my grandfather had a brother who was queer, but they made him change his last name and he moved to france back in the 1930's.


Hmmmm... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Marais)

:D
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 22, 2007, 07:02:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
So if you were born gay, you would spend your life with a woman you didn't find attractive because you would feel it was wrong to act on your sexual feelings? Probably making both of you miserable?



You think that’s fair to ask someone who had no choice in it?

That makes sense to you?


Well......Yes!

Do you think it's fair to tell pedophiles they can't do what seems natural to them? How about bestiality? How about all the people in the mental hospitals?

We all have feelings or impulses we were born with that should never be acted on.

For some reason Gays get a pass on their behavior. Not only that but now a days liberals seem to want to promote the behavior.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: midnight Target on February 22, 2007, 08:01:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy
Well......Yes!

Do you think it's fair to tell pedophiles they can't do what seems natural to them? How about bestiality? How about all the people in the mental hospitals?

We all have feelings or impulses we were born with that should never be acted on.

For some reason Gays get a pass on their behavior. Not only that but now a days liberals seem to want to promote the behavior.


Freakin amazing.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Hazzer on February 22, 2007, 08:01:40 AM
If you Hate  A group of ppl simply because they're gay,err french ,black even though they have not ,nor intend to do you ,or anyone else any harm,then that says more about you than the ppl you Hate.Most intelligent ppl see no sense in that, it's not "pc" it's common sense,this man behaved like a bigot,he gets treated like a bigot,now he's back pedaling.I support his rights to freedom of speech, but don't expect a pat on the back!Hate destroys the Hater!

This has nothing to do with "pc".;)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Hazzer on February 22, 2007, 08:06:22 AM
Mightyboy,are you a single cell organism?:confused:
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 22, 2007, 08:24:50 AM
How many here actually like the effeminate behavior that is generally defined as homosexual type behavior.  I'm talking about that catty style critique from Steven "Cojo" Cojocaru , or that bunch from "Queer eye." What about when Richard Simmons starts prancing around?

I'm sorry, I don't like it at all and to say I do would be lie. So something is wrong with me? I find that behavior outrageous and gross and all of a sudden I'm a bigot. The agenda is not to accept that a percentage of the population will be homosexual. The agenda is to make overt homosexual behavior stylish and sophisticated. Sorry- guess I'll have to be a bigot. I'm not the one stepping all over people here.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 22, 2007, 08:27:02 AM
BTW... you said...

"I believe pretty much what the scientific consensus states, that sexuality is formed from genetics, chemistry, and environment.

Ok... so.. If I can read then.. you believe that at least some part of it is genetic.. that you are born that way?   That you believe that there is either more to genetics than DNA or that, since we have not found the gay gene... that we don't know all there is to know about DNA?

Your answer says that, even after all the tap dancing, you believe that at least to some extent... a homo is born that way.

I have 4 brothers the youngest is gay... It would seem that thrawn's post nailed it in my family...  The second from the last was also gay and died of aids in the 80's

Point is..  if someone is born some way then it is unatural for them to act (behavior) any other way.

Because of my brother(s), I have known a lot of gays over the years.   I can't even imagine that they were not born the way they are.

I have no idea of what your original post was for in any case.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Saintaw on February 22, 2007, 08:32:59 AM
I really don't get what you lot are whining about. It's all good as far as I am concerned, because:

A - More male homos = more female for us men with hairy chests.
B - More female homos = more lesbian pr0n!
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 22, 2007, 08:34:45 AM
BTW...

    "Originally posted by midnight Target
    Homosexuality is not a "behavior". It is part of what a person is and is no different than eye color or skin color or using your left hand to write.

    And yes I'm rubbing it in.



So say you. But that is the debate about sexuality - is it learned behavior, genetic, or a combination. Glad you figured it out. How do you explain identical twins of different sexual orientations?"

This is your post.. you are asking not telling us that it is a combination.. you then go on to say that DNA is everything and identical twins have identical DNA yet one can be gay and one not so therefore...

So therefore... what?   you seem to be saying (earlier)  that genetics have nothing to do with it.

Now you seem to be saying that... well... even tho genetics are strictly DNA identical DNA can breed homo or hetro (is hetro mean to heterosexuals?).

Are you saying that one of the twins that is homo is just pretending to be?

That one or the other of the twins is lying about his sexuality and was not born the way he is?

Are you.. at the bottom line.. saying that sexuality is so fragile that we can program it?

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 22, 2007, 08:50:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
BTW...

    "Originally posted by midnight Target
    Homosexuality is not a "behavior". It is part of what a person is and is no different than eye color or skin color or using your left hand to write.

    And yes I'm rubbing it in.



So say you. But that is the debate about sexuality - is it learned behavior, genetic, or a combination. Glad you figured it out. How do you explain identical twins of different sexual orientations?"

This is your post.. you are asking not telling us that it is a combination.. you then go on to say that DNA is everything and identical twins have identical DNA yet one can be gay and one not so therefore...

So therefore... what?   you seem to be saying (earlier)  that genetics have nothing to do with it.

Now you seem to be saying that... well... even tho genetics are strictly DNA identical DNA can breed homo or hetro (is hetro mean to heterosexuals?).

Are you saying that one of the twins that is homo is just pretending to be?

That one or the other of the twins is lying about his sexuality and was not born the way he is?

Are you.. at the bottom line.. saying that sexuality is so fragile that we can program it?

lazs


In that post, I'm stating what the debate is. You have people that believe its strictly genetics, strictly environment and those that believe its a complex combination of chemistry, genetics, and environment. MT seemed to believe it was all genetic thats why I brought up identical twins as that is one argument used against the idea of homosexuality being strictly genetic- like race.  In another post on the same day, I stated I agree with the scientific consensus that states sexuality is a combination of of three factors, genetics, chemistry and environment. So again,  you can't find where I have ever stated genetics was not a factor because I never said that and would never say that. I said it isn't the ONLY factor. I've answered the rest of the questions already.

I've never tapped danced around anything. You have purposely tried to distort what I've said, and I haven't let you:aok
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 22, 2007, 09:03:03 AM
so you have no position other than it is possible that gays are maybe born that way to some extent?

Does it work the same way for hetros?    is it just a minor thing in our genetics and those urges and desires are false... fed by what the people around us are doing?

How much do you think is genetics?  what is chemistry in your view?  and how much is "environment"?

What does "environment" mean to you?   I still don't even know what "genetics" means to you....  if you agree that identical twins may be influenced differently by "genetics" in their sexual orientation but then say that the DNA is identical and all there is to "genetics" then you make no sense.

I can't follow you.   You do indeed seem to be tap dancing.   If a person is born with a sexual preference...one way or the other then it is natural and he will have that behavior or be dennying his being his self.   He will create his environment in my opinion.

Would you agree that child born hetro who was raised by homo's would remain hetro?  

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 22, 2007, 09:47:00 AM
All answered. I you didn't get it the first time you won't get it the second time.
I do want to thank you for completely crapping all over this thread. I guess you don't like the subject so no one else should discuss it.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 22, 2007, 10:27:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hazzer
If you Hate  A group of ppl simply because they're gay,err french ,black even though they have not ,nor intend to do you ,or anyone else any harm,then that says more about you than the ppl you Hate.Most intelligent ppl see no sense in that, it's not "pc" it's common sense,this man behaved like a bigot,he gets treated like a bigot,now he's back pedaling.I support his rights to freedom of speech, but don't expect a pat on the back!Hate destroys the Hater!

This has nothing to do with "pc".;)


This has everything to do with being PC.

Gays are mentally ill and should be treated that way but the PC crowd wants to change it to make it seem that some how being a fruit is OK and that everyone should not only accept them they should be admired for having the courage to be a fruit.

Your assumtion that gays "do no harm" is wrong.  Everytime you see a fruit prancing on tv or on the street it sends the message to our kids that it's ok to give into your feelings no matter how depraived and sick they are.  There are no boundries because if it's OK to openly show you are a fruit then why hide the rest of your feelings.

Feel like killing kids at school? Why not? If fruits can be shown as role models then why not give in to the other urges?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Hazzer on February 22, 2007, 10:52:07 AM
You know,the ppl posting on here have more in common with the intolerant muslims they claim to hate,and are currently fighting,than I think they realize,most of you would find sharia law suits them just fine.

And err mightyboy to compare a consensual sexual act with that of a peidophile shows just how far down the foodchain you are.

Of course homosexual women are perfectly natural,I notice none of you geniuses,have tried to find sicence to back that up.maybe your hand is to busy doing another unatural act.:rofl
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: midnight Target on February 22, 2007, 10:55:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy
This has everything to do with being PC.

Gays are mentally ill and should be treated that way but the PC crowd wants to change it to make it seem that some how being a fruit is OK and that everyone should not only accept them they should be admired for having the courage to be a fruit.

Your assumtion that gays "do no harm" is wrong.  Everytime you see a fruit prancing on tv or on the street it sends the message to our kids that it's ok to give into your feelings no matter how depraived and sick they are.  There are no boundries because if it's OK to openly show you are a fruit then why hide the rest of your feelings.

Feel like killing kids at school? Why not? If fruits can be shown as role models then why not give in to the other urges?


This has to be a troll.

If not, it shuld be posted on every bulletin board in every school in America as a reminder of the intolerance we all need to guard against. There are way too many people who think like this.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Hazzer on February 22, 2007, 10:57:27 AM
Of course onanism,causes low IQ,so none of you could possibly be.....Oh...hang on:confused:
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 22, 2007, 11:08:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Hazzer
You know,the ppl posting on here have more in common with the intolerant muslims they claim to hate,and are currently fighting,than I think they realize,most of you would find sharia law suits them just fine.

And err mightyboy to compare a consensual sexual act with that of a peidophile shows just how far down the foodchain you are.

Of course homosexual women are perfectly natural,I notice none of you geniuses,have tried to find sicence to back that up.maybe your hand is to busy doing another unatural act.:rofl


I see we are like the terrorist because we dislike gays.:huh

My comment about peidophiles was to illistrate how urges can be bad if acted on. You chose to ignore that or are not bright enough understand.

You choose to ignore a mental illness because it's the PC thing to do and you say that there is something wrong with me.

That's your opinion and you have every right to have it.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Curval on February 22, 2007, 11:20:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy
I see we are like the terrorist because we dislike gays.:huh

My comment about peidophiles was to illistrate how urges can be bad if acted on. You chose to ignore that or are not bright enough understand.

You choose to ignore a mental illness because it's the PC thing to do and you say that there is something wrong with me.

That's your opinion and you have every right to have it.


My one hope is that some day you need a gay person's help and they refuse.

Good day.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 22, 2007, 11:22:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
This has to be a troll.

If not, it shuld be posted on every bulletin board in every school in America as a reminder of the intolerance we all need to guard against. There are way too many people who think like this.



Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
There are way too many people who think like this.



Excuse me but if the majority of the people believe this then maybe you should be looking at what is wrong with your beliefs.


Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
This has to be a troll.

If not, it shuld be posted on every bulletin board in every school in America as a reminder of the intolerance we all need to guard against.



What should be posted is signs that tell the kids that just because you want to do something does not mean you should.  

It should be posted that just because someone else is mentally ill it does not mean you have to support their actions.

It should be posted that anyone who tries to get you to do something that is legally or morally wrong should be ignored as the morons they are.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 22, 2007, 11:25:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
My one hope is that some day you need a gay person's help and they refuse.

Good day.


Oh no I'll just have to redecorate my own home.:rofl
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Curval on February 22, 2007, 11:25:52 AM
Interesting that you talk about kids Mightyboy.

Here's a link that you could check out:

http://www.nyfoundling.org/fontana/index.htm

Founded by a gay man.  He worked his entire life and devoted himself to helping thousands upon thousands of abused children.  He wrote a book called Somewhere a Child is Crying.

What exactly have YOU done in your life in this regard?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Curval on February 22, 2007, 11:27:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy
Oh no I'll just have to redecorate my own home.:rofl


See the link above you ignorant bigot.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Jackal1 on February 22, 2007, 11:32:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy
Oh no I'll just have to redecorate my own home.:rofl


:aok  Priceless. :rofl

I fear that someday Curvie will need the help of a bigot and be refused. ;)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: midnight Target on February 22, 2007, 11:33:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy
Excuse me but if the majority of the people believe this then maybe you should be looking at what is wrong with your beliefs.
 


I said "Too many". Not a majority. One is too many.

You keep on spouting your hatred though. No better way to point out how wrong you are than to read your posts.

Wall Street couldn't put up a better campaign against intolerance.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 22, 2007, 12:50:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
I said "Too many". Not a majority. One is too many.

You keep on spouting your hatred though. No better way to point out how wrong you are than to read your posts.

Wall Street couldn't put up a better campaign against intolerance.



How am I wrong?

The debate in this thread has been whether homosexuality is natural or if it is a learned behaviour.

I said I agree with it being natural and add that if it's natural it is a defect in the brain which makes it a mental problem.

I also said I think that if it is a mental problem gays should not be encouraged to  promote their illness like it's something that everyone should try.

Being that I feel it's a mental illness does not mean I hate gays but I don't think they should be trusted around our kids or be in a position to make important decisions.

I mean you wouldn't take your kids to the mental ward for daycare would you?

You and others also keep spouting off that we are intolerent.  Gays are not locked up are they? Do they have regular jobs? Don't they have their Parades so they can prance around the street showing the world how depraved and disgusting they really are?

Sorry if we were as intolerant as you claim you would never hear another person proclaiming their gayness for fear of being locked away or worse.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Curval on February 22, 2007, 01:42:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy
Being that I feel it's a mental illness does not mean I hate gays but I don't think they should be trusted around our kids or be in a position to make important decisions.

I mean you wouldn't take your kids to the mental ward for daycare would you?


You OBVIOUSLY didn't bother to look at the link I posted and are content to be ignorant.

You don't think gays should be trusted around kids and yet I post an example of a doctor who devoted his life to saving kids from violent abusive homes.  HETERO homes.

How sad you are.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 22, 2007, 01:51:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
I said "Too many". Not a majority. One is too many.

You keep on spouting your hatred though. No better way to point out how wrong you are than to read your posts.

Wall Street couldn't put up a better campaign against intolerance.
do you mean wall street or madison avenue?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 22, 2007, 02:18:41 PM
BTW.. how did I "crap all over" the thread?   If it is a discussion about behavior and genetics I was merely asking for some real info from you.  

What do you think of mightyboys assertions?   How bout mine?

I say that we are born with our sexuality.   I am saying that most of us are born hetro but...  hetro or homo... we can't deny what we are.   It would be wrong to do so.

behavior is another thing.

lazs
Title: Re: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 22, 2007, 02:21:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
apparently tim hardaway spoke his mind, (something that should never be done) and stated in an interview that he hated gays and would not play on a team that had gay players.

in typical PC fashion the local media is all over the story here.  has it made the nationals yet?


And that pc is replicated here. See what happens to people when they don't get onboard the gay train? You aren't debated- you are insulted

You're is sad shape (or a bigot) if the sight of a grown man prancing around like a little girl in a sun dress doesn't do it for you. You're in sad shape if overt public sexuality and casual locker room sex doesn't do it for you.

Its the new definition of "tolerance." Its the same people who claim the display of a Nativity scene will offend non-Christians but have no problem with a gay parade poking blasphemous "satire" at Christian symbols.

Tolerance is the new hypocrisy. Any you better accept it - or else.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: midnight Target on February 22, 2007, 02:32:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
do you mean wall street or madison avenue?


Maybe I meant the advertising agencies on Wall Street.... yeah.....that’s what I meant.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Thrawn on February 22, 2007, 02:34:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy
TGays are mentally ill and should be treated that way



Yeah but that's just a case of you talking out of your ass.  You have absolutely no qualifications to make any sort of determination of what constitutes a mental illness or not.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 22, 2007, 02:35:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
You OBVIOUSLY didn't bother to look at the link I posted and are content to be ignorant.

You don't think gays should be trusted around kids and yet I post an example of a doctor who devoted his life to saving kids from violent abusive homes.  HETERO homes.

How sad you are.


So a gay guy does something right ....whoohoo!

That must mean all gays are ok.

Way to go you proved me wrong.

I feel so deluded so so unPC ....I need a shower.

You still didn't prove me wrong you just found one example of a gay doing something right and and then insulted me.

Then again I may have been insulting you all along and not knowing it. It never accurred to me that the reason you are taking this so personal is that you yourself are gay and your ashamed to admit it.

Sorry about that! :rofl
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Curval on February 22, 2007, 02:43:54 PM
lol

My goodness.

One thing is for sure...there is absolutely no need to respond with any type of insult.  I apologise.  You guys are doing a fine job of demonstarting your intelligence (or lack thereof).
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 22, 2007, 02:49:24 PM
btw... not all gays act as you describe.    I am not happy with such behavior.

I am not real happy with some of the overt behavior of hetros either tho.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 22, 2007, 03:11:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
btw... not all gays act as you describe.    I am not happy with such behavior.

I am not real happy with some of the overt behavior of hetros either tho.

lazs



True! I can't argue with that.

My dislike of gays comes from personal experiences and not from the bible or someone elses opinion.

Of course I've never said Straight people were perfect.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: eskimo2 on February 22, 2007, 04:41:40 PM
You know who I hate?  Trekkies!  They just bother me and I know they have some kind of an agenda.  Clearly they have some sort of mental illness; I mean they go around thinking that they are from outer space.  What good does that do?  Their underground culture bothers me and I know they appeal to unsuspecting children.  I hate to think of what goes on at their “conventions” (shudder).  I also hate that it’s considered PC to accept them.  I know that there are plenty of other folks out there who feel as I do, however.  I’m sure if we ban together we can stop their unnatural behavior.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: VERTEX on February 22, 2007, 05:23:49 PM
The tolerant are intolerant of the intolerant, which makes them intolerable.

or

The one thing the tolerant will not tolerate is the intolerant.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 22, 2007, 06:01:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
If it were confined to their bedroom I'd agree. However, many more are now at risk of being infected with AIDS which probably wouldn't be threatening so many were it not for the promiscuity of homosexuals. I'll agree that many heterosexuals wouldn't be at risk if not for their own promiscuity but still you must consider who is most responsible for spreading this deadly disease.



Hetersexuals are the ones most responsible for spreading the disease, not homosexuals.  Heterosexuals also make up the majority of AIDS victims.  

ack-ack
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Curval on February 22, 2007, 06:13:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy
True! I can't argue with that.

My dislike of gays comes from personal experiences and not from the bible or someone elses opinion.

Of course I've never said Straight people were perfect.


lol

So, your "wealth" of experience with gays has led you to the conclusion that gay people have a mental problem?

Are you a doctor or do you at least have a PhD in psychology?

Do tell.

Tell us about your gay experiences.

:rofl
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: GtoRA2 on February 22, 2007, 06:19:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy
Well......Yes!

Do you think it's fair to tell pedophiles they can't do what seems natural to them? How about bestiality? How about all the people in the mental hospitals?

We all have feelings or impulses we were born with that should never be acted on.

For some reason Gays get a pass on their behavior. Not only that but now a days liberals seem to want to promote the behavior.



All of that is not between consenting adults, and is criminal because of it.

Two adults should be able to make the call who they want to have relations with. Without some dude like you spazing about it. Mind your own buisnes.


Your hetero unkle is just as likely to be a kiddy raper as a gay dude, maybe even more so.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 22, 2007, 06:22:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy


My comment about peidophiles was to illistrate how urges can be bad if acted on. You chose to ignore that or are not bright enough understand.

 



Unfortunately that is a bad example as the majority of pedophiles and sexual predators are heterosexual.


ack-ack
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 22, 2007, 06:29:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
BTW.. how did I "crap all over" the thread?   If it is a discussion about behavior and genetics I was merely asking for some real info from you.  

What do you think of mightyboys assertions?   How bout mine?

I say that we are born with our sexuality.   I am saying that most of us are born hetro but...  hetro or homo... we can't deny what we are.   It would be wrong to do so.

behavior is another thing.

lazs




I would tell mightyboy to not use terms that mean nothing. "Mental illness" can be anything from a little sad and melancholy to a depersonalized sociopath. Another term that means pretty much nothing is "natural forces."
What is an unnatural force? Spirits? "Scientific consensus" means nothing.  I know I used it and liberals use it all the time in regard to global warming. No one called me on it, but it means *nothing*. Scientist prove things with scientific *evidence* , not consensus. Political parties (and Al Gore) use consensus.

As I stated in a very early post in this thread, anyone proclaiming they know the recipe for sexual orientation has a political agenda.  The science, the evidence, doesn't exist. I do believe its three  factors, but there is no conclusive evidence. The fact that there isn't accounts for this subject being endlessly debated.

There's enough to debate without insulting anyone.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lukster on February 22, 2007, 06:57:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Unfortunately that is a bad example as the majority of pedophiles and sexual predators are heterosexual.


ack-ack


As in your reference to more heteros having HIV than homos you fail to consider percentages. I think you'll find that there is a much higher incidence of HIV among homosexuals than heterosexuals based on percentage of population.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 22, 2007, 07:37:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
As in your reference to more heteros having HIV than homos you fail to consider percentages. I think you'll find that there is a much higher incidence of HIV among homosexuals than heterosexuals based on percentage of population.
he's just sticking up for his kind.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 22, 2007, 07:43:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
he's just sticking up for his kind.



Ahh Storchita feels the need to be insulting.  Really, you have to let the fact that I can repeatedly kick your arse in this game go.  It is making you a bitter little man.  Not to mention your obsession with me is now entering the "gay zone".


ack-ack
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 22, 2007, 07:53:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
As in your reference to more heteros having HIV than homos you fail to consider percentages. I think you'll find that there is a much higher incidence of HIV among homosexuals than heterosexuals based on percentage of population.



Just go to the CDC website and read the latest WHO report.  of the 45 million plus people world wide with AIDS/HIV, almost 70% of the cases are in Africa.  Are you trying to imply that 70% of Africa is gay?

In 2005, for the first time, there was a higher instance of AIDS/HIV amongst heterosexuals than homosexuals.

In the US, over 70% of women that have contracted AIDS/HIV received it from heterosexual contact.

In the US, IV drug users and high-risk heterosexual sex are the leading causes of AIDS/HIV in heterosexuals.

In India, fully 1% of the population has AIDS/HIV.   The majority of the victims are in the sex trade industry serving mostly heterosexual male clients.

To just close your eyes and mind and think that AIDS/HIV is a "gay" disease is wrong and has seriously hampered efforts to globally combat this disease.


ack-ack
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 22, 2007, 09:12:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Ahh Storchita feels the need to be insulting.  Really, you have to let the fact that I can repeatedly kick your arse in this game go.  It is making you a bitter little man.  Not to mention your obsession with me is now entering the "gay zone".


ack-ack
I thought I was on your ignore list pumpkin. what's the matter? you can't keep away huh?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lukster on February 22, 2007, 09:41:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
To just close your eyes and mind and think that AIDS/HIV is a "gay" disease is wrong and has seriously hampered efforts to globally combat this disease.


ack-ack


It certainly is not just a homosexual disease which was my point I think you missed. However, were it not for past homosexual activity would this disease be the plague for humanity that it currently is?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Viking on February 22, 2007, 09:56:24 PM
Yes.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lukster on February 22, 2007, 10:13:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
Yes.



Perhaps the ancient religious taboos against illicit sexual activity are not without merit.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Viking on February 22, 2007, 10:24:51 PM
They're not that ancient.

Blaming the gays for the HIV pandemic is just silly. Africa is the real culprit with millions infected and no knowledge or education on how to protect against this disease. In addition many believe raping a virgin girl can cure AIDS; doesn’t really help the situation.

And I’m afraid your “ancient” religion is doing more harm than good over there, the Catholic Church being against birth control and condoms.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 22, 2007, 10:50:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
They're not that ancient.

Blaming the gays for the HIV pandemic is just silly. Africa is the real culprit with millions infected and no knowledge or education on how to protect against this disease. In addition many believe raping a virgin girl can cure AIDS; doesn’t really help the situation.

And I’m afraid your “ancient” religion is doing more harm than good over there, the Catholic Church being against birth control and condoms.
you may want to look at uganda's HIV infection levels and what the official gov't policy is there, how that policy has been implemented and the results they have obtained.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 23, 2007, 07:15:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Unfortunately that is a bad example as the majority of pedophiles and sexual predators are heterosexual.


ack-ack


Urges! Urges!

It's about controlling the urges. Y a know like in just because you want to do something doesn't mean you should.

I never said pedophiles were gay.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 23, 2007, 08:25:52 AM
Ok BTW.. now we are getting somewhere.. you admit that, to some extent at least. people are born with their sexual orientation.. be that hetro or homo..

So.. being born either way..  a person would conflict himself to act differently.  It would not be "natural" for him to do so.  

But... you also said that environment played a part.    How big a part would you say?   I say very little.  I would say that... left to themselves... all people revert to the genetics.. the way they were born.

Do you believe that environment is a big enough factor that it will overcome the genetic part in some permenent way?  or... are all of us able to switch back and forth with the right environment?   Is a convict in prison really gay or does the fact that as soon as he is around women he has strictly hetro sex... is that a sign that behavior is only a matter of convienence and natural horniness and that the hardwired part is impossible to really overcome permenently?

mightyboy...  You have every right to say whatever you want.   It doesn't bother me.. it is how you act that is important.   The sports guy has every right so far as I am concerned too but....  he has to abide by the rules of the people that are paying his outlandish salary for his piddly talent.

He has every right to quit if he does not like their rules or...  work for change in the workplace.   At this point tho...  We all have workplace rules that do not allow us to insult fellow employees.    

If you go on one of your rants in the workplace and insult someone who has no choice but to sit and take it then the employer would be right to get rid of you.  If you didn't want to go you could always try the old "rehab" scam too.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 23, 2007, 09:24:19 AM
Well for the record I try not to  treat gays any different in person than I do anyone else. Unless of course they do something that pisses me off then all bets are off. :p

I may not like their's or other people's lifestyles but I mind my own business and stay out of theirs as long as they don't try to force me to participate. That includes parades,demonstrations or even to change/create laws.

I express my opinions here like everyone else but I try to never offend anyone in person unless they offend me first.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Curval on February 23, 2007, 09:50:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy
I express my opinions here like everyone else but I try to never offend anyone in person unless they offend me first.


Fair enough, but unfortunately much of what you wrote did offend me.  The reason is that Dr. Fontana (the guy from the link I provided) was a great friend of our family before he passed away.

He saved my grandfather's life at one point and did the same for my father as well.

Reading your comments on how you think gays have a mental problem and that they cannot be trusted with children was what prompted me to respond, particularly given that he devoted his life to helping children.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 23, 2007, 10:34:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
Fair enough, but unfortunately much of what you wrote did offend me.  The reason is that Dr. Fontana (the guy from the link I provided) was a great friend of our family before he passed away.

He saved my grandfather's life at one point and did the same for my father as well.

Reading your comments on how you think gays have a mental problem and that they cannot be trusted with children was what prompted me to respond, particularly given that he devoted his life to helping children.


I understand that some people have friends that are gay and they don't always see both sides. I have had gay friends that have never done anything wrong (as far as I know) but it still doesn't change or make up for the bad ones I've encountered.

I used to think it was my location (24 miles south of IU, The Gay capital of Indiana) but watching the news and my own traveling in and out of the country has shown me that they aren't much different.

Granted as it was stated before there are different degrees of Gayness just like anything else. Just like there are degrees of sports fans.

For example One guy may like a team but only watch a couple of games a year while a super fan watches every game in person and only dresses in his team colors and so on.

Your Doctor friend may be at one end while someone like Bobby Trendy (gotta know the Anna Nicole Smith show for this one) is on the other end.

My generalization of all gays is for lack of time I normally have to post.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: eskimo2 on February 23, 2007, 04:57:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy
I understand that some people have friends that are gay and they don't always see both sides. I have had gay friends that have never done anything wrong (as far as I know) but it still doesn't change or make up for the bad ones I've encountered.

I used to think it was my location (24 miles south of IU, The Gay capital of Indiana) but watching the news and my own traveling in and out of the country has shown me that they aren't much different.

Granted as it was stated before there are different degrees of Gayness just like anything else. Just like there are degrees of sports fans.

For example One guy may like a team but only watch a couple of games a year while a super fan watches every game in person and only dresses in his team colors and so on.

Your Doctor friend may be at one end while someone like Bobby Trendy (gotta know the Anna Nicole Smith show for this one) is on the other end.

My generalization of all gays is for lack of time I normally have to post.


What do the gays do that is wrong?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Kieran on February 23, 2007, 10:13:09 PM
Let me ask a question... if a gay guy gets on the tube and says he hates heterosexuals, what would happen? Nothing, that's what. Rosie O'Donnell comes pretty darn close at times, and folks just love her. Free pass. And boy, does she and her ilk take the pot shots at religion.

Could be what is really hardwired into white Anglo-Saxon populations is guilt. You know, gotta be sorry for this, gotta be sorry for that. Gotta prove that sensitivity all the time. Heaven forbid someone label you a homophobe or something. Gotta go over the top to prove your "okayness with gayness". Oh, the chest-thumping we see! Sorry, I don't wanna be that enlightened.

I believe homosexuality is wrong based on religious beliefs. That isn't going to change, but that doesn't mean I am going to do anything to or about gay people. I will vote against any agenda that attempts to normalize it, but that's about it. I certainly don't want my kids to be fed the line it's normal behavior. That's my right as a parent, and I don't really care what anyone thinks about it.

I still interact with them, still work with them, just like everyone else. I don't want to know anything about their personal lives any more than I want to hear the latest drama from any other co-worker.

Tim Hardaway was an idiot to say what he said. It was full of hate and malice, and that is totally unnecessary. He could disagree with the concept and not hate the person in the process.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Jackal1 on February 24, 2007, 08:02:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
Let me ask a question... if a gay guy gets on the tube and says he hates heterosexuals, what would happen?  


A "bring your own soap" party down at Brucie`s house? :D

Quote
Rosie O'Donnell comes pretty darn close at times, and folks just love her.


Huh? I have yet to meet anyone who doesn`t totaly detest Blowsie.
I do think Bobba Wobba has the hots for her. :)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lukster on February 24, 2007, 12:08:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
They're not that ancient.

Blaming the gays for the HIV pandemic is just silly. Africa is the real culprit with millions infected and no knowledge or education on how to protect against this disease. In addition many believe raping a virgin girl can cure AIDS; doesn’t really help the situation.

And I’m afraid your “ancient” religion is doing more harm than good over there, the Catholic Church being against birth control and condoms.


Several thousand years is ancient as far as I'm concerned. The ten commandments is to what I refer.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 25, 2007, 09:50:04 AM
mightyboy..  fair enough.. how you act is the thing.   curval does have a point in that you did insult people in a public forum..  I think we all know tho that in this particular forum.. we have some leeway..  It is ok to voice an opinion.. no one here is helpless...

I think that if you don't have gay relatives or friends then maybe you don't know as much as you say about em.    my brother being gay, I have been around then  from time to time over the years and..  I bet I have said things to em that you wouldn't.   I think it is how and where you say it more than what you say.   I don't know.. I always get away with it.   straight or gay..

I won't interact with people who have too thin a skin.   I don't mind most gays but don't even bother to try to interact with blacks for instance..  they are far too sensitive and have far too big a chip on their shoulder for me to even bother with.

Some of this is societal...  blacks and gays (to name a few) are tending to believe the victimhood crap that liberal socialists spout...   they are whiny and demanding and unfun to be around.

come at me like an equal and I will treat you like an equal... come at me like I owe you and I will leave in disgust.   Real men don't act that way.  

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Viking on February 25, 2007, 10:06:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
Several thousand years is ancient as far as I'm concerned. The ten commandments is to what I refer.


Ok then, but there is one thing I've wondered about this whole thing ... maybe a bit off topic ... I don't see why Muslims and Christians have to fight all the time when they hate the same things: Gays and women.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 25, 2007, 10:08:37 AM
viking, speaking for christians everywhere as I'm clearly authorized to do the answer is a simple one.  we each want total world domination.  we the christians are beginning with you.  now go to a lutheran church in your town and worship, or else.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Viking on February 25, 2007, 10:20:26 AM
Ummm ... ok, I'm going my Master.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Kieran on February 25, 2007, 10:23:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
Ok then, but there is one thing I've wondered about this whole thing ... maybe a bit off topic ... I don't see why Muslims and Christians have to fight all the time when they hate the same things: Gays and women.


Let me say first I am not thin-skinned enough to be insulted by this.

But... I have worn myself out (in the past) trying to describe the Christian perspective on homosexuality. It never changes anyone's viewpoint, so I will not try again. I'll just say you have it completely wrong when you say Christians hate homosexuals. Totally.

I'm confused about your comment on women more than anything else. Are you referring to Ecclesiastes? "Women, in all things submit to your husbands"? If so, are you also familiar with the companion passage "Men, love your wives as you love your own bodies"? That means treat women as you would yourself, or in other words, as equals. The Bible also mentions Eve was made as a "companion" for Adam.

Now if you really want to have a thoughtful Biblical discussion on either topic, I'm always game. If you are just making an attempt at humor, there won't be any need. I don't really want to spend the energy on it if you don't have a real interest to learn anything.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Xargos on February 25, 2007, 10:24:25 AM
While making rounds at a prison as I passed by certain cells I could smell the evidence of gay sex emitting through the door.  Ohh the horrors I've seen and smelled.   :O

P.S.  I am not joking.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 25, 2007, 10:46:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
Ummm ... ok, I'm going my Master.
that's a good boy, deposit 10% of your entire life's earnings in the collection plate lots of work to be done.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Viking on February 25, 2007, 08:11:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
that's a good boy, deposit 10% of your entire life's earnings in the collection plate lots of work to be done.


Yes Master. At once Master.



Quote
Originally posted by Xargos
While making rounds at a prison as I passed by certain cells I could smell the evidence of gay sex emitting through the door.  


How do you know what gay sex smells like? You a priest?:huh
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 25, 2007, 08:32:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
How do you know what gay sex smells like? You a priest?:huh
:rofl
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Xargos on February 25, 2007, 09:18:49 PM
Ask anyone who has worked in a prison as a C/O for at least a few years, they will know what I'm talking about.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 26, 2007, 06:50:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I think that if you don't have gay relatives or friends then maybe you don't know as much as you say about em.    lazs


I grew up with Kieran so that should be close enough. :rofl


BTW I really do have gay relatives so I do know what I'm talking about.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 26, 2007, 08:11:44 AM
mighty.. maybe I have you wrong but from what you have said... I find it hard to believe that you have ever had anything to do with your "gay relatives"...  if I am wrong and you do know your gay relatives wrong then..

you are a hypocrite since you have told us all how much you hate them and hate to be around em...  could it be that your gay relatives are ok and it is only all the others that are disgusting?

You can't have it both ways.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 26, 2007, 10:48:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
mighty.. maybe I have you wrong but from what you have said... I find it hard to believe that you have ever had anything to do with your "gay relatives"...  if I am wrong and you do know your gay relatives wrong then..

you are a hypocrite since you have told us all how much you hate them and hate to be around em...  could it be that your gay relatives are ok and it is only all the others that are disgusting?

You can't have it both ways.

lazs


You ARE wrong!

I find all gays disgusting but that does not mean I'm going to ruin family ties by spouting my views.

Just because I come here to a faceless forum and tell my opinions does not mean I'm going to hurt people in real life.

That's why were come to forums like this so we can say things we would like to say in real life but are either to nice or to afraid.

In my case I don't want to hurt peoples feelings.

I know I know! Kieran is reading this thinking "What about Troy?".

Even Troy (Our youngest half brother) I try not to say anything to him or were he can hear as not to cause problems.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 26, 2007, 02:56:05 PM
mighty... I have no problem with you being disgusted with gay behavior but... the person?   You can't just condem em all out of hand based on your dislike of something that they do that is natural for them and between consenting adults.

I would also say that if you have never told your brother how you feel about it then you don't know anything about him.   I was honest with my brother about the whole thing..  It might have  bothered him some but we could talk it out and get it out of the way.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Viking on February 26, 2007, 04:45:06 PM
I don't think I can handle this new nice and caring Lazs. I want the old mean and grumpy Lazs back! :cry
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 26, 2007, 04:51:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
I don't think I can handle this new nice and caring Lazs. I want the old mean and grumpy Lazs back! :cry



Threaten to take his guns away and tell him that he's got a dinner date with Pelosi and the gun control lobby.  you'll see the old Lazs =)


ack-ack
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Kieran on February 26, 2007, 06:02:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
mighty... I have no problem with you being disgusted with gay behavior but... the person?   You can't just condem em all out of hand based on your dislike of something that they do that is natural for them and between consenting adults.

I would also say that if you have never told your brother how you feel about it then you don't know anything about him.   I was honest with my brother about the whole thing..  It might have  bothered him some but we could talk it out and get it out of the way.

lazs


I shouldn't speak for Mighty, but it's like this...

The person he refers to is a first-cousin. He is the son of our uncle, who was raised with us like a brother by our mother (when her family was orphaned). There is absolutely no need or reason to approach the cousin about it, because he is as he is, as is Mighty. Approaching the cousin on the topic would be totally unwelcome, and worse it would result in alienating the uncle and our mother. It isn't worth that to simply tell a person you disagree with their lifestyle.

As for how close we were to this young man, well, Mighty and I are both a little older. We babysat for him and his sisters while we were all growing up. It was obvious from a very early age this boy was gay. Was it environment, or genetics, or both? Who cares. He's gay.

Personally, I think Mighty is coming off stronger than he actually means to here. He doesn't hate the cousin, but he sure doesn't want to hear about his boyfriend. In addition, what he said about where we live is very true. We have a large and vocal gay population just north of us, and they get a lot of press. I guess Mighty could also throw in there tidbits about friends of his wife who are gay, how those gay friends mess with him, crap like that... they won't let him ignore them, they're in his face with their behavior. That crap would get old with anyone.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 26, 2007, 09:14:24 PM
Thats the best way to debate a topic- personalize it. That just sparks objectivity :rolleyes:
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Kieran on February 27, 2007, 06:11:44 AM
BTW,

If that is directed at me, so be it. I feel things were being directed at Mighty in a very personal way. He's my brother. That's personal to me, too.

If Lazs wants to give a "one size fits all" answer to the problem, then he should understand that one size doesn't fit all. I'm glad it all worked out for him, but it isn't that easy for everyone else.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Curval on February 27, 2007, 07:21:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BTW
Thats the best way to debate a topic- personalize it. That just sparks objectivity :rolleyes:


lol

Or...just paint an entire segment of society with the same brush and rant and rave about how terrible they are.  That's a much better way to debate the subject.

:rolleyes:

Kieran,

I assume you subscribe to the "We hate the sin but not the sinner" concept?

This is what a bunch of fundementalist Christians claimed here just before they held a massive gay bashing rally at our national stadium.  They actually invited gays to the rally so that "hands could be laid on the sinners" and they could be saved.

Their main agenda was to ensure that our human rights legislation did NOT extend to gays.  Nice.

To add insult to injury these same fundementalists are die hard supporters of a labour government...which is odd.  This government is known to have a Cabinet full of gay people.

So, on the one hand they are rigorously anti-gay...but vote for gays.

Just a bizarre bunch.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 27, 2007, 08:35:18 AM
my point was that you either like someone or you don't.. there can be lot's of reasons.   I just don't think that being gay (in an of itself) is a good enough reason.   How they behave may be.   I may also be that you read too much into it...  Maybe not.   I certainly do not want to hear about what my brother does with his friends sexualy... no problem.. I just get that out in the open with him.

I tell him that it gags me to see it.   Don't expect me to be "tolerant"... don't expect me to go see broke back mountain...  In return.. I won't grope my girlfriend in front of him and his and I won't give him details of my sex life.

viking..   I have plenty of people who I consider enemies of my freedom...  I consider gay marriage a bad idea too so long as they want to leach off conventional marriage.

I have no time to hate people based soley on their sexual preference so long as it is between consenting adults.   To many real threats to be making ones up.

I think I am consistent if maybe a tad pragmatic.

BTW...  the topic has no point.   You have no point.   or, so far as I can see, you are being dishonest about it.

You say that at least some of it (homosexuality) is genetic...  ok..  you are born with it.   end of subject.  

you say that some is environment...you won't say how much or if you think environment can change someone born either way to the opposite sexuality in some permanent way... so... end of subject.

you say some is chemical?   like what?  Dr jekl and mr hyde formulas?   lead in the air?   which is it, do the "chemicals" make you strait or gay?   will a tinfoil hat help?   you won't say.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Masherbrum on February 27, 2007, 08:47:56 AM
Wow, never realized the impact a washed up NBA player had.  He was a non-factor then, as he still is, regardless of his book.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 27, 2007, 09:28:25 AM
but his car wash business has gone down the rainbow flagged drain
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 27, 2007, 09:43:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2


you say some is chemical?   like what?  Dr jekl and mr hyde formulas?   lead in the air?   which is it, do the "chemicals" make you strait or gay?   will a tinfoil hat help?   you won't say.

lazs


You really have no clue what I'm talking about?

Sorry, I thought this was basic high school biology, and I though you were being purposely dense.

The chemicals (chromatin proteins ) affect the fetus in the womb or uterus. In fact, thats how the sex organs are formed. Every fetus starts out as a female.
It is believed these proteins may also affect sexual orientation.

Here if you want some heady reading on the subject.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1170931
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: SirLoin on February 27, 2007, 09:54:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Mightytboy


Well for the record I try not to  treat gays any different in person than I do anyone else.

...but I mind my own business and stay out of theirs as long as they don't try to force me to participate. That includes parades,demonstrations or even to change/create laws.


I express my opinions here like everyone else but I try to never offend anyone in person unless they offend me first.



By not trying to treat gays any different than anyone else,aren't you implying same treatment/rights for them?...Then you say you don't want anything to do with changing laws that gives them the same legal rights..?


I read somewhere that in five states it is a felony for two men to have sex..yet in two of those states it is legal for a man & woman to have anal sex..but two guys? >>>Jail<<<

Fix the laws so everyone has the exact same rights...Marriage/adoption/benifits...Then the only protests you will see are those who don't want the same rights for everone(KKK,Religious right..ets)

Reverse discrimination would also vanish if hiring quotas based on skin colour were banned.

Same rights for everyone...What's so wrong about a level playing field?

Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Mightytboy on February 27, 2007, 10:19:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SirLoin
By not trying to treat gays any different than anyone else,aren't you implying same treatment/rights for them?...Then you say you don't want anything to do with changing laws that gives them the same legal rights..?


I read somewhere that in five states it is a felony for two men to have sex..yet in two of those states it is legal for a man & woman to have anal sex..but two guys? >>>Jail<<<

Fix the laws so everyone has the exact same rights...Marriage/adoption/benifits...Then the only protests you will see are those who don't want the same rights for everone(KKK,Religious right..ets)

Reverse discrimination would also vanish if hiring quotas based on skin colour were banned.

Same rights for everyone...What's so wrong about a level playing field?



So I either have to accept them and give them everything they want or I have to treat them like scum? Sorry it's not that simple.

As you often forget gays have the same rights right now.

A man can marry a woman.

A husband and wife can have sex how they want.

A Husband and Wife share benifits.

As far as adoption goes they should be treated just like anyone else. What is their mental state? Can they provide a good home?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 27, 2007, 02:37:17 PM
btw... thank you for clearing that up...  as I suspected you are talking about the fluid in the womb which would make being gay a genetic (born that way) and a chemical (born that way) condition..

now all we have to do is get you to explain the environmental aspect of your post.

but.. at least at this point... you seem to be saying that it is mostly being born the way you are.    sooo...  all that is left is for you to explain how much is environmental.

leaving out the environmental (since you haven't explained that) you are pretty much saying that... homo or hetro... it's just the way we are born.

Or am I missing something that you will, in your normal manner, graciously explain in your next post while being careful to not insult anyone?

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Masherbrum on February 27, 2007, 03:30:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
but his car wash business has gone down the rainbow flagged drain
:rofl
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Kieran on February 27, 2007, 06:37:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Curval


Kieran,

I assume you subscribe to the "We hate the sin but not the sinner" concept?


That is the cliche, but I don't much care for the "hate" part, because it is misconstrued. The Bible is written in the language the readers of the time would understand, so you see references about people needing to "hate the darkness and love the light", but of course that is a metaphor. What Christians are supposed to do is recognize sin and turn away from it. They are also charged with trying to turn their fellow man away from sin. Christians aren't supposed to condemn others for their sins, rather they are to help lead them away.

Quote
This is what a bunch of fundementalist Christians claimed here just before they held a massive gay bashing rally at our national stadium.  They actually invited gays to the rally so that "hands could be laid on the sinners" and they could be saved.


Were gays forced to attend? Do you understand the purpose of "laying on hands"? Whether you agree with it or not, those Christians' intent was to reach out in love. You may think it misguided, but their purpose was to help. So tell me... where again was the gay bashing part? See, this is the hard part for me as a Christian... I can understand my beliefs not being welcome, no prob. What I don't get is how that gets turned into "hate".

But, tell you what... you find me a single Biblical passage that directly says homosexuality is okey-dokey with God, and I will be perfectly fine with it. Seriously. Otherwise, how would you expect a Christian to behave?

Quote
Their main agenda was to ensure that our human rights legislation did NOT extend to gays.  Nice.


I know it's splitting hairs, but no, that's not the main agenda. The main agenda (I say this as in "usually", I wasn't at your event) is to protect their own vision of society, which is their right to do. If you believe in a God that tells you a certain behavior is detestable to Him, you certainly don't want your society normalizing that behavior. How would you expect these people to act? Like it or not, Christians in a democratic society also have a right to vote, to enter government, to try to affect the way government works. Or would you deny them their rights based on their religious beliefs?

Quote
To add insult to injury these same fundementalists are die hard supporters of a labour government...which is odd.  This government is known to have a Cabinet full of gay people.

So, on the one hand they are rigorously anti-gay...but vote for gays.

Just a bizarre bunch.


I think this is very telling... it's obvious Christians don't hate gays in your country, as you suggest, rather they are against many of the proposals the gays put forth. See, this is how the argument gets framed... if you are against a group's policies, you must hate them. Ridiculous!

Of course that is a standard tactic by minority groups of all types... yell "bigot" or "racist" or "homophobe" and you immediately have the other side on the defensive trying to explain how they are not. Discussion over.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 27, 2007, 07:45:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
btw... thank you for clearing that up...  as I suspected you are talking about the fluid in the womb which would make being gay a genetic (born that way) and a chemical (born that way) condition..

now all we have to do is get you to explain the environmental aspect of your post.

but.. at least at this point... you seem to be saying that it is mostly being born the way you are.    sooo...  all that is left is for you to explain how much is environmental.

leaving out the environmental (since you haven't explained that) you are pretty much saying that... homo or hetro... it's just the way we are born.

Or am I missing something that you will, in your normal manner, graciously explain in your next post while being careful to not insult anyone?

lazs


If you suspected I was talking about chemical influences in the uterus, you certainly avoided it in your "tin foil hat" rant. What else would I have been talking about? Mercury based immunizations? This stringing out of the obvious reminds me of Bill Clinton's desire to have "is" defined for him. Also your jump from "born that way" to genetic is ridiculous. They are not the same. There are changes in the fetus while in the uterus that have NOTHING to do with genetics, the most obvious being brain injury.

I've explained the environmental aspect already. Its not tree pollen, its the behavioral environment. The behavioral environment is that which is learned from observation and interaction. Its an important part of the child's psyche.

And as far as me being insulting in my responses(I think you were implying that) I can be just as passive aggressive as the you :)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Viking on February 27, 2007, 10:14:44 PM
It's global warming ... and it's Al Gore's fault, the ****ing liberal studmuffingot.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 27, 2007, 10:19:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Viking
It's global warming ... and it's Al Gore's fault, the ****ing liberal studmuffingot.
well now there ya go. do you see what one visit and a tithe offering at the local lutheran church does??  good job.  I'm very proud of you.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Viking on February 27, 2007, 10:25:25 PM
Thank you Master.
Title: i agree whith laz usually but............
Post by: Entr0py on February 27, 2007, 11:44:09 PM
Quote


I won't interact with people who have too thin a skin.   I don't mind most gays but don't even bother to try to interact with blacks for instance..  they are far too sensitive and have far too big a chip on their shoulder for me to even bother with.

Some of this is societal...  blacks and gays (to name a few) are tending to believe the victimhood crap that liberal socialists spout...   they are whiny and demanding and unfun to be around.

come at me like an equal and I will treat you like an equal... come at me like I owe you and I will leave in disgust.   Real men don't act that way.  

lazs


Thats funny, for some reason this part of your post sounds like it was written in the Chicago blue collar accent (blaaaaacks) with the a's in the middle sounding real nasally. Anyone from the area knows what I'm talking about.

Anyway, I've read this sort of statement in your posts before. I think it is somwhat irresponsible of you to assign behavioral characteristics to a whole race or sexual orientation group based on a limited interaction sample. I've witnessed unattractive behavior by people of all races and orientations and I dont think it's healthy to extrapolate thier behavior to include an entire group.
Besides, I take pride in having to fight, scrape, and scratch for every single thing i have and I've never been anyones victim. Black people are not a monolith. Black trash exists just as White trash does. Sounds like thats what you've been dealing with.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 28, 2007, 08:51:47 AM
entropy.. we would probly get along but... you would have to realize that since so many negros/african american/melinen superior/ s are as I have described that it has affected how I interact with you BEFORE I get to know you... so many are as I describe that I just don't bother... And why should I?  

BTW.. ok.. there you go again... I don't even know what passive agressive means.

But... we are back to things that happen in the womb and things that happen after...  in the womb=born that way?   out of the womb=environmental?  or, close enough?

Now.. lets take it further..  if you believe that most of our sexuality is simply that we are born that way... I agree.   If you are saying that we are born some sort of asexual and that environment decides if we are gay or straight..  then I don't agree with you.

I don't think straight people can become permenently gay or gay people straight... in short...  we are hardwired.

I do believe that we can be influenced to some temporary shift but that given choice... we will revert to our hardwired self.

Am I also right in saying that what you believe is simply... what you believe if you can't assign specific numbers to genetic/chemical and environmental?   That any numbers of percent you assign would simply be your opinion?

My opinion is that we are born that way... any deviation from how we are hardwired is simply a matter of convienience or circumstance and not the real person who will revert to his hardwired sexual preference if given the chance.

To not believe this is to believe that no one is born hetro.   That we are fooling ourselves and that with a little education and training... we could become real flamers.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 28, 2007, 11:56:31 AM
Laz I think you are looking at sexuality in a very narrow scope. I don't think its like a light switch where you're either gay or straight. I think it would be more of a degree and even type. Even the same basic sexual orientation can be different based on the culture you live in. So heck yea, I believe environment has a whole lot to do with sexual orientation.

There is no natural reason for a grown man to be aroused by the sight of a woman's breast, yet that is considered a heterosexual response in our culture. And the response is environmentally conditioned. Its a conditioned behavior. Are men faking this attraction to breasts? I know I'm not and I know there's no natural reason for it. I never decided to form this abnormal attraction, but something in my upbringing conditioned it.

Every sexual orientation also have abnormal fetishes. These fetishes are a very real part of the persons orientation and not faked by any means. And yet they can only be explained as conditioned responses.

There is profound evidence that environment affects sexual orientation on a permanent basis.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on February 28, 2007, 02:45:24 PM
BTW... you are making no sense..  You seem to be saying that once we find this nebulous "conditioning" that has made us gay or straight...  that there is no reason that we can't form a persons sexuality with environment.  

You would have to say that straight people... people born hetro... could be conditioned to permenently reverse their sexual beings and turn homo and never look back?

I am saying that it is hardwired into us at birth..  that environment plays a tiny role and that it can only cause temporary confusion in a person as they are reaching puberty but that the4 person will eventually revert to his hardwired sexual preference.

It would seem crazy to not think this were true.   It would make survival of man... much less every other species... a very iffy thing.

Are you saying that in animals that the homo ones or hetro for that mater, are simply that way cause of.... of the way they are raised?

Are you saying that gays can be turned into hetros with the right environment after they are born?   That hetros can be permenently turned into homos with a little teaching?

What is your point?

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 28, 2007, 04:26:58 PM
I'll make you a deal Laz. Quote the part you think doesn't make sense and I'll try to clear it up for you. Don't make up something, attribute it to me ( I suspect thats why you don't quote?) and tell me it doesn't make sense.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: eskimo2 on February 28, 2007, 04:55:41 PM
The Kinsey scale attempts to measure sexual orientation, from 0 (exclusively heterosexual) to 6 (exclusively homosexual). It was first published in Sexual Behavior in the Human Male (1948) by Alfred Kinsey, Wardell Pomeroy and others, and was also prominent in the complementary work Sexual Behavior in the Human Female (1953).

Introducing the scale, Kinsey wrote:

“ Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual. The world is not to be divided into sheep and goats. It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories... The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects.
While emphasizing the continuity of the gradations between exclusively heterosexual and exclusively homosexual histories, it has seemed desirable to develop some sort of classification which could be based on the relative amounts of heterosexual and homosexual experience or response in each history... An individual may be assigned a position on this scale, for each period in his life.... A seven-point scale comes nearer to showing the many gradations that actually exist." (Kinsey, et al. (1948). pp. 639, 656)
 ”

The scale is as follows:

Rating Description
0 Exclusively heterosexual
1 Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
2 Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3 Equally heterosexual and homosexual
4 Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5 Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
6 Exclusively homosexual

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Scale
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lukster on February 28, 2007, 09:00:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by eskimo2
The Kinsey scale attempts to measure sexual orientation, from 0 (exclusively heterosexual) to 6 (exclusively homosexual). It was first published in Sexual Behavior in the Human Male (1948) by Alfred Kinsey, Wardell Pomeroy and others, and was also prominent in the complementary work Sexual Behavior in the Human Female (1953).

Introducing the scale, Kinsey wrote:

“ Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual. The world is not to be divided into sheep and goats. It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories... The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects.
While emphasizing the continuity of the gradations between exclusively heterosexual and exclusively homosexual histories, it has seemed desirable to develop some sort of classification which could be based on the relative amounts of heterosexual and homosexual experience or response in each history... An individual may be assigned a position on this scale, for each period in his life.... A seven-point scale comes nearer to showing the many gradations that actually exist." (Kinsey, et al. (1948). pp. 639, 656)
 ”

The scale is as follows:

Rating Description
0 Exclusively heterosexual
1 Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
2 Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3 Equally heterosexual and homosexual
4 Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5 Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
6 Exclusively homosexual

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Scale


I always thought sexuality was about sex. There are only three (not six) possibilities imo. Heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on February 28, 2007, 09:06:52 PM
there is one category of sex.  that is hetero, then there is deviant sex as practiced by liberals, and other homos.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 28, 2007, 09:21:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lukster
I always thought sexuality was about sex. There are only three (not six) possibilities imo. Heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual.


You've never listened to rock'n'roll. If your total sexual experience in life has been coitus, you're either a liar or abnormal and deprived :D
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on February 28, 2007, 09:23:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
there is one category of sex.  that is hetero, then there is deviant sex as practiced by liberals, and other homos.


Deviant sex would be foreplay in the redneck world?:D
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Jackal1 on March 01, 2007, 03:33:17 AM
How high is the water Momma?
Well...it`s not water, but it has sure got deep in a hurry. :rofl
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on March 01, 2007, 08:24:23 AM
btw..  "There is no natural reason for a grown man to be aroused by the sight of a woman's breast, yet that is considered a heterosexual response in our culture. And the response is environmentally conditioned."

So you are saying that there is no natural reason for hetros to get aroused by women?   that they were not born that way?   Or is it just the narrow term "breasts" that you are talking about (don't want to put words in your mouth)

How exactly do you know that we aren't born to get aroused by breasts?   If we are born hetro that is.   I mean..  The way men function is that we have to be aroused in order to procreate...  It would seem that if any of our sexuality was genetic (which you admit to at least some) then we would have to have triggers.

Why do animals get aroused?   certainly not from what other animals whisper to them in the lockerrooms or books they have read?

My guess is that we, hetros, are aroused by breasts because they get us that much closer to the real goal and that a woman bent over doing chores would arouse the natural instinct even more in hetros.   I really don't know what the natural trigger is for homos but I am sure there are a few and for the same reasons.

environment may distort the natural triggers to some extent tho...like fetishes..  The brain is very powerful but.. that does not mean the person was not born with the sexual preference he has.

Some fetishes are harmful and can be considered damage by environment.. some are irreparable.  

But..  what is your point?   You say that at least some of our orientation happens in the womb.   I would agree.

Do you also agree that if it does that it could be said "we are born that way"?

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: GtoRA2 on March 01, 2007, 10:47:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by BTW

There is no natural reason for a grown man to be aroused by the sight of a woman's breast, yet that is considered a heterosexual response in our culture. And the response is environmentally conditioned. Its a conditioned behavior. Are men faking this attraction to breasts? I know I'm not and I know there's no natural reason for it. I never decided to form this abnormal attraction, but something in my upbringing conditioned it.

 


Pretty funny, is there a culture on earth that males dont dig hooters?  I think you shot yourself down. :rofl
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on March 01, 2007, 01:43:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Pretty funny, is there a culture on earth that males dont dig hooters?  I think you shot yourself down. :rofl
yes there is, homos don't dig hooters they dig scooters.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 01, 2007, 03:05:38 PM
Apparently technology can cause homosexuality.  According to this person, anyone that uses a computer is gay.  

(http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2007/3/feb28gal11.jpg)

ack-ack
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Estes on March 01, 2007, 04:07:20 PM
Really simple way to tell if you are gay.

(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/126/gaytestem7.jpg)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on March 01, 2007, 04:30:28 PM
I noticed the squirrel but that just means I'm a redneck and a little hungry:)
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on March 01, 2007, 05:58:46 PM
if you like that particulare does it make you a pedophile?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on March 01, 2007, 07:47:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
if you like that particulare does it make you a pedophile?


She does look 12 but I figured that's because I'm 48.  I guess maybe 19?
The dark eyes makes me want to tell her to take a vitamin.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Estes on March 01, 2007, 07:49:44 PM
Storch is correct, I forget her name but she's like 17 I think.
Found that picture on 4chan the other day saved it, and I happened to have
an opportunity to use it. :)

-edit- her name is emma watson the chick from the harry potter movies-edit-
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: BTW on March 01, 2007, 08:49:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Estes
Storch is correct, I forget her name but she's like 17 I think.
Found that picture on 4chan the other day saved it, and I happened to have
an opportunity to use it. :)

-edit- her name is emma watson the chick from the harry potter movies-edit-


Ok- I see it now. She still needs a vitamin with those dark eyes.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Masherbrum on March 01, 2007, 09:04:11 PM
John Amaechi is gay, NOTHING you guys are saying in this thread will impact that.    Question is, why in the hell is a "never was" from the NBA, that damn important?   Let alone a "trigger mechanism" for debate?   He stunk in the 5 years he rode the bench.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: DiabloTX on March 01, 2007, 09:14:33 PM
So Karaya, you saying that he "blows"?

hehe...
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on March 01, 2007, 09:24:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX
So Karaya, you saying that he "blows"?

hehe...
:rofl
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Masherbrum on March 01, 2007, 09:26:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DiabloTX
So Karaya, you saying that he "blows"?

hehe...


My God, some of the people in this thread say in other thread's "I need to grow up."    I enjoy Hypocrisy when it involves others.

This thread is just sheer stupidity.

Good joke Diablo.   :aok    It's all good, and yes he "sucked it up" in the NBA.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on March 02, 2007, 09:19:42 AM
I never even heard of the guy till this thread and I have never watched more than one minute of a professional basketball game.   I don't think basketball was the point was it?

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on March 02, 2007, 09:25:10 AM
the point was using the incident to illustrate the power that a small but vocal minority seems to have over the rest of the world, aided by their limpwristed liberal pals.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: lazs2 on March 02, 2007, 09:42:50 AM
you may have missed one or two points.

lazs
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on March 02, 2007, 12:16:06 PM
it was my troll to begin with sir.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Torque on March 02, 2007, 12:52:26 PM
maybe you should go back to drinking from your special fountain.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: storch on March 02, 2007, 03:27:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Torque
maybe you should go back to drinking from your special fountain.
what do you mean?
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Carrel on March 02, 2007, 03:34:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum
John Amaechi is gay, NOTHING you guys are saying in this thread will impact that.    Question is, why in the hell is a "never was" from the NBA, that damn important?   Let alone a "trigger mechanism" for debate?   He stunk in the 5 years he rode the bench.


You don't know what you're talking about. Tim Hardaway was the "T" in the Golden State Warrious' Run TMC clubs. He had one of the quickest crossover first steps to the basket of any baller I've ever seen, and he played good defense and was tough. He might of offered up an opinion that's not PC, but the guy knew how to play basketball.
Title: Tim Hardaway and his love of gays
Post by: Jackal1 on March 02, 2007, 07:40:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Carrel
He had one of the quickest crossover first steps to the basket of any baller  


Well.......you would too if you had to play with a bunch of players.
You should have seen the records he broke in the locker room shower shuffle event.









:p