Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: brady on August 27, 2001, 10:41:00 PM
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Any single plane that aproaches it should be schreaded IMO,single buff aproaching at 6k can t/o a cv to easly imo, sucide mishions on the CV's are comom place a couple US jabos can sink easly too.
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Fleet ack (not just 5" flak) kills my fighter pretty easy if im just dogfighting around the cv.
However Ive seen buffs fly right through it and the few times ive tanken a P47 to attack Cv it presented few problems.
As for the 5" AI flak its completly useles as defense of the CV from direct attack, it only severs to kill engines/radiotrs/oil and wound the pilots of fighters dogfighting near the CV. Plus its 3000 foot alt rule gives the CV fighters instant alt advantage.
Before any of you tell me dont fight near the CV, well I tell you dont park your damn CV on the beach.
Another really stupid development thats resurfaced of late are the PT boat ack pickets or just tulips who take fleets of PT boats under mid sea furrballs. PT boats didnt run with the CV fleet
and shouldnt be able to spawn from them, not to meantion the fact that they were never used used as ack pickets. But again I suspect none of you care about that.
Oh well! :)
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You're right; I don't care.
If you begin to list the things that "never were...", "always were...", "shoulda been"..., "coulda been"...., "mighta been..."
you'll come up with a really long list.
I'm thinking that's because this is a G-A-M-E and HTC has made Gameplay concessions and adjustments so it will be fun.
I'm even willing to bet that some things will change in the future, as more stuff is added and GAMEPLAY is adjusted.
Relax.. there isn't a WW2 SIMULATION out there yet. Enjoy what we do have.
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Fleet ack isn't the problem, the fleets lack of a zig-zag course is.... The CV should only sail a straight course when there is planes taking off (spawn on deck) or landing (a plane with an extended hook closes in). Even small changes in course will throw aim off for suicide buffs.
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I think it would <cough> improve gameplay, if the carrier was harder to kill. A lone suicide fighter with 2K can easily do it now.
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Actually, we've tested this and its 4k (some of those who claim 2k may well have hit a CV that had bombs already on it within 30 min. Either way, it should require more for game play, even though historically a well placed 100 lber in the magazine could sink one.
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That is true big, and I've seen too often someone who has control of a fleet and doesn't put it into a zig-zag when in danger, b00m goes the CV, much whining occurs, and another fight is found. I don't normaly override someones control of a CV if I'm able but in this instance I do if they don't respond to "hey turn the CV it's under attack"
Not to Hijack the thread but that's a totally different discussion alltogether.
The CV ack is a bit funny though, Flak hardly ever hits even if your flying a straight line, I sould think that a buff in a straight flightpath would be toast in a matter of less than minutes, but usually if any damage is taken it's minor. A buff should be forced to zig-zag through the flak, they don't maneuver like fighters, granted, but the flak seems to go easy on buffs.
The Anti-aircraft guns up close I think are about right. If any aircraft goes into that umbrella almost evertime It's wasted, which IMHO is how it should be.
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I believe that gameplay would be better served by less vulnerable "cv fleets". Maybe more and better flack or at least, several more cv's in the "fleet". As it is... The carriers are pretty easy targets for lone suiciders. It kills their usefulness so far as gameplay.
lazs
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Airfields almost always call for coperation to bring down, why cant it be the same for the CV's? Is it that people always whine when they get wasted by 5 inch ack? In other words more people whine about ack than they do about the CV's being to fragile?
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i think they should make GP bombs only capable of disabling flight ops, not sinking the fleet. or make it take like 20k of gp bombs like all level buffs and normal jabos take. but killing flight ops would only take like mabye a couple thousand?
but they would also have to make fleet ack strafable/killable by ordnance
then introduce the val/dauntless/whatever and make it take like 3 or 4 AP bombs to sink it, or 2 or 3 torpedoes from a torpedo bomber.
then conventional fighters would be able to surpress the carrier (disable flight ops for 15 minutes and surpress the CV ack) but it would take the planes that historically did the sinking (dive bombers and torpedo bombers) to put her on the bottom.
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Is it possible to kill CV with torps on any consistent basis? Ive done it once but I dropped torpedos just before I hit the CVs sides, anything farher away they just turn CV out of way.
Whats the best way to do this?
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The problem with fleets, as I see it, is the easyness with which they die, the laughable flack (hits a hi speed manouvering fighter but not a low speed, straight flying buff!), and the singlepingkill tracer ack, that, like land based assets, only encourages people to run to their ack the moment they lose the least of advantages.
Fixes?
Make CV's eat at least 8k of bombs, replace the tracer ack (in CV's and airfields) with .303's (a LOT of them) and leave the 5' and 37mm's be MANNABLE only, and fix the flack so that a level flying plane will be tracked and hit after 5 salvos or so.
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many run on CV with ju88 torpedos
if nobady see me is it dead but usualy they begin zig zag when some 1 ont it
and i send torpedos at direct HO on CV and when ack begin shoting
there is some problem with that, buff can level even super zig zag cv but torpedo atack need big luck , how about longer range for torpedos ?
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If we get the Ki 67, I think we will see a little longer range torpedo.
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I'd love to see FASTER torpedos. Seems to me that the PT boat can outrun the torpedos it shoots (been a while since I've been in a PT boat, but I seem to remember this was the case). Make the torpedos twice as fast as the ships (at least) and maybe the torpedo bombers will be somewhat useful in the MA. As it is, they are less useful than the TA-152.
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Yes Urchin PTs are fast as if not faster than the actual torps.
Zig zagging is not necesarily the solution. The other night our CV was being attacked by a mid-alt 17, a 234, and a low B26. Both the 26 and the 234 got nailed. However the 17 managed to get the CV pretty easily. Even though I had put in a hellish zig zagging course earlier.
Seems to me the issue is the ack IS at the right level of damage, but for some bizzare reason a straight and level flying huge target of a bomber has less chance of being hit than a small, fast, manoevring fighter.
I think the suggestion of lotsa 303s and manneable only 37mms is good. At the moment the torpedo bombers have ZERO chance of making through the flak umbrella, and we've all seen them make it through in the war footage.
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Zig Zag, is pretymuch usless,the best bet is simply to change heading radicaly and repeadealy while the buff is almost to drop point, ya see, when I am in a buff I look at the outer destroyer to see whear it is going this tells whear the cv will"be" so i can drop in its path even if it is turning, so Zig zag's not realy the answer, the buf could arive over target when it is on a streight course, or on a turn, and if the guy knows his stuff even if it is turning he can hit it, it is the turn that is excuted that he has no time to counter that will save the CV.
Howeaver if the CV is being JABO'ed to death, aka Sucide mishion...their is no defence.
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Tonight, I followed an enemy P47 at low alt (probably 1k) strait into my CV group and killed him as he was right over the carrier. He sunk the carrier, and it didn't look like ack touched him at all. He was the only enemy around too! I might have film of it, it was an amazing sight.
SOB
-edit- Film at 11. (http://www.matthoffman.cc/bb/fleetack.zip) It's a long film, but well worth the download to see yours truely in action. :) The fleet ack thing is about in the middle.
[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: SOB ]
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How bout doing what I do and what was done historically and provide a little CAP for the cv? If cv is near a enemy field and there's a possibility of it being attacked, then if you wanna keep the cv, up a couple of heavy fighters high over cv and shot the blighters down before they even get in range of the cv ack.
chow :D
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I flew a Yak-U through the whole fleet last night to chase and nail a C-hog.
IMO fly thru the ack more and those who whine about it will learn how to do it. It's not gaming anything, it's just about how not to be a fat plump ack magnet.
As for CAP. I agree. But 99% of the folks won't because it's 80% boredom mixed with 20% chasing an hi alt cons. It's certainly not as much fun as vulching the enemy base under attack. Which is what thier buds are doing while they burn circles in the empty sky waiting for something to come along.
Westy
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I agree that there are changes in order for the CV but zygote does have a point. The only problem with providing CV CAP is that most wont do it because it's not enough excitement for them. Just yesterday the Knights had a CV off the coast of rooklandia, A1 I believe, I just launched from the CV in a Seafire when I saw a dot appear on CV dar, investigated and found a lone B-17 which I promptly shot down....but too late....he dropped and hit. The point is I ended up with 3 kills flying CAP, it's not always a boring thankless job :D
[ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: AcId ]
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Something else...
It looks like, for instance, when I begin attack from port side of a CV, it seems ALL the fleet ack begin firing at me, even the ones at starboard. If I begin attack from in front of a carrier, ALL the fleet ack seem to begin firing at me, even the ones behind the bridge.
Is this just my misconception? Or does fleet ack work this way?