Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: devil956 on February 17, 2007, 07:59:55 AM

Title: P-38
Post by: devil956 on February 17, 2007, 07:59:55 AM
I cant get nothin going in this bird how should i use it?
Title: P-38
Post by: Hoarach on February 17, 2007, 08:39:13 AM
Lots of flaps and rudder.  Vertical moves are your friend.  Don't get into to many horizontal fights unless you really know what your doing.  Need really good SA as the p38 is usually the first plane the enemy will go after as they think its easy kill since many use it just for toolshedding.  Good thing to start as well as you will get better is not using tracers.  Theres no need to go really high as well since the 38 does compress around 500.
Title: P-38
Post by: Benny Moore on February 17, 2007, 12:33:56 PM
The best climb angle is roughly twenty degrees, and the best sustained climb speed is roughly 170 M.P.H. at low altitude.  When turning, try not to let your speed drop below that speed, and use four notches of flaps if you are dedicated to the turn.  If you're trying to keep your energy, you might want to stick with one notch; however you won't out-turn many ships doing that.
Title: P-38
Post by: Debonair on February 17, 2007, 04:19:04 PM
point it@some d00d & press the trigger
Title: P-38
Post by: TequilaChaser on February 17, 2007, 04:31:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Benny Moore
The best climb angle is roughly twenty degrees, and the best sustained climb speed is roughly 170 M.P.H. at low altitude.  When turning, try not to let your speed drop below that speed, and use four notches of flaps if you are dedicated to the turn.  If you're trying to keep your energy, you might want to stick with one notch; however you won't out-turn many ships doing that.


Benny, using flaps when turning is all dependent on the situation, making a suggestion to use 4 notches of flaps is a bit misleading.........
Title: P-38
Post by: TwinBoom on February 17, 2007, 05:44:25 PM
what tc said
Title: P-38
Post by: Benny Moore on February 17, 2007, 08:44:33 PM
That's cute, but notice I also said you might want to try one notch if you want to keep your energy instead of dedicating yourself to the turn.  But whatever ... I really don't care who follows "my" method.  I've enough folks who find it effective enough, including myself.  That said, it is only a guideline and I deviate from it regularly.  Anyone who doesn't realize that any tips are just guidelines and that no single trick is good for any situation really can't be helped.
Title: P-38
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 18, 2007, 12:56:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Benny Moore
The best climb angle is roughly twenty degrees, and the best sustained climb speed is roughly 170 M.P.H. at low altitude.  When turning, try not to let your speed drop below that speed, and use four notches of flaps if you are dedicated to the turn.  If you're trying to keep your energy, you might want to stick with one notch; however you won't out-turn many ships doing that.


You do realize that there is nothing wrong with getting the P-38 slower than 170mph in an angles fight, right?  In case you didn't know, the P-38 is one of the best stall fighters in the game do to its superb low speed handling and gentle stall characteristics.  As long as you know how to properly use the flaps, a good P-38 pilot shouldn't have to worry getting into a stall fight.  In fact, a stall fight is one of the better ways to kill a Spitfire, especially if using the Cloverleaf maneuver.


ack-ack
Title: P-38
Post by: Benny Moore on February 18, 2007, 01:50:11 AM
Again, I regularly deviate from my guideline.  It's a very good guideline, but as with all guidelines, if you stick to it always you will suffer.  For a sustained, four-notch flap turn, roughly 170 M.P.H. gets you the best results (more like 165 when lightly loaded).  That doesn't mean I recommend going 'round and 'round at 170 non-stop.

As for the original poster, he can try out my suggestion, or he can ignore it.  It's up to him, and there's enough opinions that he can make an informed decision after testing.
Title: P-38
Post by: Raptor on February 18, 2007, 02:52:22 AM
Not sure how Hoarach's tip about tracers helps specifically in the P38. I personally like to use tracers, I can land hits fine without tracers... but I like messing with people using my tracers :aok
If I am bored and sneak up on someone with no one else around, I will shoot past them to "wake" them up and have fun with them trying to shake me. Also funny to see a squadie jink hard thinking an enemy is shooting at them:cool:
Title: P-38
Post by: Debonair on February 18, 2007, 03:02:46 AM
yes, tracers give u 50% moar ppl to shoot@:aok :aok :aok
Title: P-38
Post by: Serenity on February 18, 2007, 02:54:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
especially if using the Cloverleaf maneuver.


ack-ack


How does that one work, if you dont mind sharing?
Title: P-38
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 18, 2007, 05:40:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Serenity
How does that one work, if you dont mind sharing?


The information can be readily found on the SAPP forums.  Oh wait, you don't fly the P-38 nor have access to the SAPP forums.  Tough luck.


ack-ack
Title: P-38
Post by: Bronk on February 18, 2007, 05:44:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The information can be readily found on the SAPP forums.  Oh wait, you don't fly the P-38 nor have access to the SAPP forums.  Tough luck.


ack-ack

*giggle*

:noid :noid :noid :noid :noid

Bronk
Title: P-38
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on February 18, 2007, 05:51:07 PM
Title: P-38
Post by: Raptor on February 18, 2007, 05:55:20 PM
:rofl
Title: P-38
Post by: Shuffler on February 19, 2007, 03:47:39 PM
:huh   :rofl
Title: P-38
Post by: TwinBoom on February 19, 2007, 03:51:55 PM
(http://members.aol.com/kissofvanity/GRAPHICS/SimpsonDoh.jpg)
Title: P-38
Post by: Airscrew on February 19, 2007, 04:25:09 PM
 wow, thats gona leave a mark...:lol
Title: P-38
Post by: Serenity on February 19, 2007, 04:26:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The information can be readily found on the SAPP forums.  Oh wait, you don't fly the P-38 nor have access to the SAPP forums.  Tough luck.


ack-ack


Wow. How mature of you. Ive tried P-38s, but was unsuccesful. Perhaps this bit of info might be the trick im looking for to suck me back in?;)
Title: P-38
Post by: Bronk on February 19, 2007, 04:58:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Serenity
Wow. How mature of you. Ive tried P-38s, but was unsuccesful. Perhaps this bit of info might be the trick im looking for to suck me back in?;)

People who make wild claims of AC defying laws of physics, with no film proof are.......................... .



 SHUNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEDDDDD


:D :D :D


Bronk
Title: P-38
Post by: Raptor on February 19, 2007, 06:51:20 PM
Shun the non-believer!
SSSSSSHHHHHHHHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN NNNNNNNNNN-A
Title: P-38
Post by: Serenity on February 19, 2007, 08:31:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Bronk
People who make wild claims of AC defying laws of physics, with no film proof are.......................... .



 SHUNNNNNNNNNNEEEEEDDDDD


:D :D :D


Bronk


Ah! I surrender! The public scorning of me by people I dont know and dont care about is just too much for my young mind to take! Ah! It hurts so bad! If you really want me to care, get one of the few people I truely respect here to say that. I care about their oppinions. Not yours. :D
Title: P-38
Post by: DblTrubl on February 19, 2007, 10:25:04 PM
If you're really interested in the Lightning and want to know more about it I suggest some searching. There are probably quite a few posts on this very BB concerning the cloverleaf manuever. You will likely find all sorts of other useful info concerning the P-38 along the way. Google is also your friend. The information is out there, you just have to go get it. Don't expect everyone here to do the work for you, especially since you've brought some negative attention to yourself.

Most here are good guys and are usually more than happy to swap stories and info about their favorite rides. Dial the ego down a notch or two and put in a little effort to inform yourself and I think you'll see much warmer responses to your inquiries.

There is a book called Top Guns which is a collection of stories from various aces. The cloverleaf is described in detail by the P-38 ace that was interviewed for the book. It's a good read if you're into those antiquated bound paper thingies.
Title: P-38
Post by: Benny Moore on February 20, 2007, 07:43:32 AM
I know the basic idea of a cloverleaf, and have even seen a video of it in-game from one of the trainers.  Still, I never could figure it out.  I do use a similar maneuver myself, involving pulling back and easing up, but it never quite reaches a stall.  Whenever I try actually pulling back into a stall, even for a second, I lose all of my energy and shortly lose the fight.
Title: P-38
Post by: Lazerr on February 20, 2007, 09:55:51 AM
p38 sucks.  Fly a spit16 or something.;)
Title: P-38
Post by: Benny Moore on February 20, 2007, 10:21:53 AM
Leave my girl?  Never!
Title: P-38
Post by: quintis vindex on February 20, 2007, 10:25:09 AM
P.38s light up nicely .
Title: P-38
Post by: Serenity on February 20, 2007, 08:08:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DblTrubl
If you're really interested in the Lightning and want to know more about it I suggest some searching. There are probably quite a few posts on this very BB concerning the cloverleaf manuever. You will likely find all sorts of other useful info concerning the P-38 along the way. Google is also your friend. The information is out there, you just have to go get it. Don't expect everyone here to do the work for you, especially since you've brought some negative attention to yourself.

Most here are good guys and are usually more than happy to swap stories and info about their favorite rides. Dial the ego down a notch or two and put in a little effort to inform yourself and I think you'll see much warmer responses to your inquiries.

There is a book called Top Guns which is a collection of stories from various aces. The cloverleaf is described in detail by the P-38 ace that was interviewed for the book. It's a good read if you're into those antiquated bound paper thingies.


Who are you? Honestly, for someone whos been around that long, ive never heard of you. Anyway, Im not going to lie to you, I didnt go out and research the P-38 like I do/did the Bf-109, the B-17G, and well, those two. The P-38 is not and probably will never be on the top of my list. I do love books, but im still only through 2 of the books corky was kind enough to send me, so it will be a little while until I get on to the P-38 books. The P-38 has just never been all that high on my list of priorities. Im just curious what the cloverleaf is, as I have never heard of it. But hey, since you dont want to do a quick explanation, Ill move on, and get back to enjoying my bombers.
Title: P-38
Post by: Murdr on February 20, 2007, 10:33:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Serenity
The P-38 is not and probably will never be on the top of my list. I do love books, but im still only through 2 of the books corky was kind enough to send me, so it will be a little while until I get on to the P-38 books. The P-38 has just never been all that high on my list of priorities.
I have some tar here....akak, get the feathers.
Title: P-38
Post by: LEADPIG on February 21, 2007, 03:20:15 AM
I'll stay outta this one, bullets talk louder than words.... Btw there's S.A.A.P Forums ????
Title: P-38
Post by: Bronk on February 21, 2007, 07:34:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by LEADPIG
I'll stay outta this one, bullets talk louder than words.... Btw there's S.A.A.P Forums ????


:noid :noid :noid

Bronk
Title: P-38
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on February 21, 2007, 07:35:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by LEADPIG
I'll stay outta this one, bullets talk louder than words.... Btw there's S.A.A.P Forums ????


What? Who told you that? What is S.A.A.P? Who are you?
Title: P-38
Post by: Guppy35 on February 21, 2007, 08:56:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by LEADPIG
I'll stay outta this one, bullets talk louder than words.... Btw there's S.A.A.P Forums ????


Typical response of a 38 pilot who has spent too much time in a Corsair.  You were added to the forum on roughly.....the first day.....Look a bit harder, you'll see it :)
Title: P-38
Post by: DblTrubl on February 21, 2007, 05:16:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Serenity
Who are you? Honestly, for someone whos been around that long, ive never heard of you.
Well now you have. Don't you feel enlightened? :D I was trying to offer some constructive crtitcism and point you in the right direction for the info you requested. I really have no quarrel with you and am not interested in getting into a pissing match with anyone.

The cloverleaf has been discussed before and I saw no need to be redundant but I'll humor you. It was a method used by RL 38 jocks to perform a tight turn by using the benign stall characteristics of the plane. The pilot would increase back-pressure on the yoke until a stall began then ease up and allow it to subside, then rinse and repeat. They found that they could bring the nose around quicker with this method than with a steady state turn. When viewed from above the flight path would look something like a cloverleaf, hence the name. That said, I haven't had much luck trying to reproduce those results in AH and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. The reasons for this have also been discussed on this board and I don't recall anyone coming up with a definative answer. If I'm wrong here someone please correct me...I might have missed it. Ack-Ack if you can pull this off then I bow to your superior skills. Seriously. I'd love to see film of this being put to practical use. Has anyone done some testing ala Kweassa or Widewing to see if this actually does improve turn rate?
Title: P-38
Post by: Fianna on February 21, 2007, 05:42:14 PM
I think it was used to force other planes into a stall, not to increase turnrate.
Title: P-38
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 21, 2007, 07:15:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Fianna
I think it was used to force other planes into a stall, not to increase turnrate.


Yep, it's a maneuver that forces the Spitfire to either stick with the fight and eventually lose out as the P-38 will start to gain an angle with the Cloverleaf or make the Spitfire break to build up energy in which case the P-38 can then latch on the Spitfire's six position.

Quote
Originally posted by DblTrubl
Ack-Ack if you can pull this off then I bow to your superior skills. Seriously. I'd love to see film of this being put to practical use. Has anyone done some testing ala Kweassa or Widewing to see if this actually does improve turn rate?


Do a search of the BBS and you should find a post from Widewing where he tested it out I think in either the TA or the DA.  The result was that it was a beneficial maneuver for the P-38 against a Spitfire.

Remember, this isn't a 100% sure fire way of beating a Spitfire or any other plane.  It is a maneuver you can try if you find yourself in that position and it will give you a chance to walk away from the fight, regardless of the Spitfire pilot's level.  If the Spitfire got caught in a Cloverleaf against a P-38 at low altitudes, the Spitfire is in a very precarious position, regardless of pilot skill.  As with all things with life, YMMV.


ack-ack
Title: P-38
Post by: LEADPIG on February 22, 2007, 10:10:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
What? Who told you that? What is S.A.A.P? Who are you?


I feel like Matt Damon in that new CIA movie. I guess i could never be in "intelligence"..... :D  :rolleyes: