Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Halo on February 19, 2007, 10:38:39 PM
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There it was again, in the middle of the night: THUNK! Sounded like a chunk of ice slid off the roof and hit the wooden deck. Or was it another Marine exercise down at Quantico?
Maybe an intruder stumbling and falling over an outside chair?
Whatever, it required investigating. Prudence (not my wife's name, just her attitude) dictated discreet firepower available if needed.
For safety and peace of mind, I never have a loaded gun in the house. I have shells quickly available but not with the guns. Meaning I have to load quickly and usually in the dark.
The 12-gauge coach shotgun? Safe and easy to load but only two shells with two in reserve. Short but still a bit awkward in narrow home hallways.
The .30 caliber carbine? Easy to load 15-round magazine, but also a bit challenging to manuever in narrow home hallways, and bullets that could go a long way if they miss.
The .357 double action revolver? Not easy to load six shells even with speedloader. .357 might go too far if miss target, and .38 not always powerful enough.
All of these require a flashlight somewhere and have sights virtually useless in the dark.
Dilemma solved. At gun show Sunday, after months of research, finally gave in and bought a Springfield XD .45 ACP, 4-inch barrel, complete with two 13-round magazines. On the accessory rail under the muzzle, mounted a Glock GTL tactical light with laser.
It's the best combination I've found of safe operation, light weight, excellent ergonomics, effective short-range firepower, relative unobtrusiveness, and reasonable cost.
Now response to thunks in the night can be quicker, more versatile, safer, and quite powerful if need be. I get the gun from a drawer, a loaded magazine from somewhere else close by, insert the magazine, and for added safety DO NOT pull back the slide and chamber a round.
But I could quickly if need be.
The muzzle accessory can be a blindingly bright light, a laser, or both, turned on only when needed by simply extending the finger to the toggle switch just past the front edge of the trigger guard. The laser is sighted in to the iron sights so is plenty accurate enough from all sorts of positions normally never attempted, and that's with both eyes open, tremendously improving situation awareness.
Because I never want to point a gun at anything except a positively determined hostile threat, and not always then unless it becomes absolutely necessary, I can still carry a small mag lite in the other hand to avoid escalating the situation on initial contact.
If things get ugly, the small mag lite can be dropped or placed as a decoy and the XD light and/or laser activated for shock effect and warning.
Sure, this is melodramatic in a safe suburban neighborhood. But doodoo can happen anywhere. The XD .45 ACP with light/laser is the best home defense solution I've found.
Fired 200 rounds through it today at the local indoor range, and the XD performed flawlessly (except, ironically, failing to feed the first cartidge from each of the two magazines the first time I inserted them, but never again).
The laser sight is humbling. Shows every little twitch that most shooters have. Distracting to other shooters too. So I used it just enough to verify its usefulness, then shot mostly with iron sights.
Rather than revitalize several previous threads about home defense, revolver vs. pistol, favorite guns and the like, this summarizes my view of the XD .45 ACP.
Like your situation, my situation might be quite different from others', but if anything in this thread triggers a hmmmm, I recommend you consider the XD .45 ACP and a good tactical light/laser.
Meanwhile, anything new in your home defense preparedness since all the previous related threads (hunkers down for cracks about claymore mines, moats, and industrial grade flypaper)? :cool:
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It is my opinion that flashlights and lazers would just tell the bad guy where to shoot. In my house, I am at an advantage in the dark because I know the house better than an intruder. My wife knows to stay down(we have been thru it) so anyone upright is subject to bad news. Also, in the dark, the dogs will quickly tell me whether or not someone is a bad guy.
I'm not saying my way is better... just offering why I leave lights/lazers off my home defense weapon(kimber .45)
Edit: I do like the idea of the 13 round mags. Is this available at other than your local gunshow?
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A dog is the best burglary deterrent money can buy, but only because money can't buy a mechanical dog with a flashlight/laser combo package.
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True, many dogs are excellent home defense partners. I've always had dogs but after our 15-year-old parsons jack russell terrier was put down, he became our final pet. Love dogs, but we're retiring from pet care.
So I'm solo in home defense. Wife knows to hunker down, but she is not a firearms enthusiast so she helps primarily by dialing 911 and staying out of the way.
I'm beginning to think the 13-round magazines are unusual. The box has a big sticker Illegal in California, but that leaves 49 other states. I was going to order a third magazine from Springfield, and noted that the website offered "only" 10 rounds.
Yet most XD ads highlight the 13+1 .45 ACP capacity. So I'm assuming that two of those 13-round magazines come with all new XD .45 ACPs where legal.
For me, 10 rounds are plenty; I may load the 13-round mags with just 10 rounds. I do the same in my .30 caliber carbine, loading 10 rounds in 15-round magazines. Probably a holdover from 10 rounds in target shooting and wanting to not stress mag springs to max.
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Good idea halo. i keep my mags fully loaded but rotate them periodically... leave three empy, three full... switch...
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Still waiting for my local gunshop to get the XD .45 with the 5" barrel. Combined with my Kel-Tec SU-16CA I think that would cover any concievable self-defence situation.
(http://collectivecomputing.com/~gabe/images/DSCF4277.jpg)
If I didn't live in Kalifornistan I would soooo own a Kel-Tec PLR 16
(http://www.kel-tec.com/images/plr16_pic03.gif)
or a SU-16D
(http://www.kel-tec.com/images/big/su16D_01.jpg)
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I also protect myself when investigating bumps in the night...
I don't have kids so my home defense weapons are loaded and ready to go. My wife is trained up on the beretta so if she needs to shoot anyone, all she has to do is pick it up and start pulling the trigger.
My other home defense gun is a single action revolver, also kept loaded. It's an interesting choice I think because the average stupid criminal, if they find the gun, may not realize it's single action only until after they ineffectively squeeze the trigger a few times. It's one of those tradeoff sort of things I guess. They're both in .40 S&W so I can use the same ammo in both.
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I've owned a few firearms in the past and the one that I always end up grabbing is my 12gauge, 18 & a half inch barrel, pistol grip shotgun. I promise you that when someone hears a shotgun cycle they either freeze or run with fear.
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first line of defense is a large dog, me and my gun are just a back up for the dog.
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I like the Kimber single stack .45 with tritium night sights. With 9 rounds and another 8 round mag near... well... I can't imagine needing more than a couple of shots in the house for anything anyway..
I know my house.. I don't want to hang a flashlight under the barrel but I do have a surefire by the bed for any of a number of reasons.
The .45 is sorta weak but a good stopper on unprotected targets... it won't go through too many walls either. I like the night sights but...
I would not feel in the least unarmed with an old single action ruger or colt in any caliber like 44 special, .357 or 45 colt or 44 mag... no big deal.. don't even need sights for point shooting at 7 yards if you practice enough.
Anything will work tho... makarov is sometimes with me... PPK is fine... a good 22 even. I think the rail under guns with all the gadgets is a little embarassing.
I went out with a guy who had a laser. He couldn't point shoot the thing any faster than I could with my 44 revolver. the laser was bouncing all over the place too. I think that made him slow. they aren't steady like in the movies.
lazs
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Claymores will bring you out of a sound sleep, but you can also get back to sleep faster.
All is well.
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Yes, laz, the laser certainly does bounce all over the place, especially in my hands. Like most things, I think that has good and bad aspects.
The laser gives away the shooter's position and where the gun is pointed. In most people's hands, the laser betrays the natural quivering of aim point.
If there is more than one assailant, the other(s) can take comfort knowing they aren't the target at the moment. So the laser removes a lot of uncertainty for bad guys. Yet it gives them more uncertainty too.
While the laser dancing around may connote uncertainly or even questionable ability, that also might make intruders more fearful of the homeowner's ability to control the gun and avoid inadvertent firing. The bad guys also might think they're more likely to get shot accidentally, which hurts just as much as intentionally.
The laser is intimidating. No one wants the red spot of death on them. Just having a laser makes the homeowner seem more highly armed. The laser is also dangerous in itself, and most people know that it can damage their eye sight. Wouldn't want to point at an intruder's face unless I was in mortal danger.
The laser is very distracting at the firing range. Naturally draws everyone's attention. Have to learn quickly to turn it on only when holding solidly on target, and even then it still betrays that inherent wiggle of most shooters.
Especially in bad light the laser can help with otherwise iffy aiming situations. And being able to keep both eyes open with the gun not directly in front of the face tremendously enhances situation awareness.
Always tradeoffs. I'll be experimenting with the laser/light a lot.
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nothing wrong with a scattergun technologies mod of the remington 870 if you leave out the gay flashlight attachments. or get a hacksaw and go to work yourself. a shotgun is the best close quarter defense weapon ever devised. I prefer a rifled slug to buck shot for that type of use but even #4 shot will work well.
I have a mossberg model 500 myself.
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Originally posted by storch
a shotgun is the best close quarter defense weapon ever devised.
I have #7 in my mossberg because I'm not expecting a crackhead invasion sporting level IIIA body armor and I have neighbors.
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Originally posted by storch
nothing wrong with a scattergun technologies mod of the remington 870 if you leave out the gay flashlight attachments. or get a hacksaw and go to work yourself. a shotgun is the best close quarter defense weapon ever devised. I prefer a rifled slug to buck shot for that type of use but even #4 shot will work well.
I have a mossberg model 500 myself.
Yep, nice weapon, the Mossberg 500. You got the tactical model with the high capacity magazine (8 rounds versus the normal 6, IIRC)? Got to agree: nothing get an intruder's attention quite like the sound the Mossberg makes when chambering a round.:D
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mine is the wal-mart special (or maybe K-Mart special don't remember which) it loads five in the magazine and one in the breach. I bought it years ago. I also have a mossberg 835 but I only use that on the elusive, wiley, evil incarnate turkeys. calling someone a turkey should be a compliment. :D
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I have a model 97 pump trench gun.. I like the exposed hammer and the fact that there is no disconector on this shotgun... You can hold the trigger back and pump it and it fires every time it goes into battery.
lazs
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Yeah, no doubt about the universal versatility of a shotgun. After dry run at home, took my wife to the range today to let her fire the XD .45 ACP.
I was very careful to explain its many advantages including how its recoil really isn't bad for a .45. Fired five shots, then gave her the pistol.
She loaded it.
She aimed.
She fired one shot.
And said she didn't want to fire it anymore. Too much for her.
I assured her that is the reaction of some people, and that's okay. It's all about preferences and compatibility.
So her home defense weapon of last resort is the 12-gauge double-barrel coach shotgun with No. 1 buckshot. That'll work, and I still like it too.
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Originally posted by storch
mine is the wal-mart special (or maybe K-Mart special don't remember which) it loads five in the magazine and one in the breach. I bought it years ago. I also have a mossberg 835 but I only use that on the elusive, wiley, evil incarnate turkeys. calling someone a turkey should be a compliment. :D
This is my BOOMSTICK. Shop smart...shop S Mart. :D
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Originally posted by Xargos
This is my BOOMSTICK. Shop smart...shop S Mart. :D
"Army of Darkness", right?
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Originally posted by Sabre
"Army of Darkness", right?
Yep! I've seen that movie more times then I can count, love it.
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if the weak recoil of a 45 was too much for her then don't ever let her fire that coach gun or she will never be able to use it.
get a good 22 and let her learn on that... move up to a good 38 revolver or, 357 loaded with 38's
don't ruin her early.
lazs
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what lazs said. that coach gun might put a fear of firearms in her.
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You're all right, of course, the coach shotgun with 12-gauge No. 1 buckshot would not be a nice thing for anyone to fire who won't even do .45 ACP..
My wife realizes the coach shotgun would be a last resort. If an emergency got that bad, she'd use it. Theoretically. It's a pretty simple procedure and she can remember it while not remembering many other things about firearms.
For too long I was dumbing down home defense to calibers a typical smaller woman could use. Same dilemma that confronts law enforcement and the military. I'll not make that mistake anymore. If crap ever hits the fan, I'll be the one who has to provide 95% of the defense (she can dial 911 on her cell phone).
Actually I don't think she has the will to ever fire a gun in self defense. Some people are like that. Can't be helped. But I do the best I can. She has a last resort weapon and knows how to use it if she ever had to and if she could ever muster the will to fire.
Meanwhile, this summer she can try some Aguila mini-shells and No. 8 birdshot in a fun skeet setting. If she is comfortable with that, then a couple No. 1 buckshot. We shall see.
Meanwhile, I am very happy with the XD .45 ACP.
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a inexperienced person with a big gun, that's dangerous.
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take her shooting lots, you may find out she's a little tougher than you think once the initial and very natural aversion to loud noises goes away. my wife is a fine shot, she has large hands for a girl so she's good with any of our firearms and she prefers the H&K USP .40 that piece is in her nightstand and she can drive tacks with it at 15 meters. initially though she didn't want to have anything to do with firearms but once she saw how managable they are she developed into a very competent shooter.
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Thunks in the night...ha...Ive got a firearm for such cases but sadly, the source of the noises at my place are ghosts. Footsteps, doors on the cabinet opening & closing...the shower cleaner thing in the shower going off. Got worse after having the place blessed.
Maybe I'll trade the Ruger in for Garlic & Holy Water
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Holy hijack, LePaul, thanks for reminding us some thunks are beyond our most diligent home armament upgrades. Now about that vapor I saw outside my window on a dark and stormy night ...
Scariest munger I ever saw was that invisible beastie in Forbidden Planet. Or maybe The Thing in black and white.
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I think we have or perhaps had one here. I posted about it on this bbs a while ago but things have been quiet for some time now.
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Statistically a firearm is the second best weapon for home defense, in regards to protecting from loss of property or injury.
The best weapon is any other weapon besides a firearm.
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Originally posted by john9001
a inexperienced person with a big gun, that's dangerous.
Yep.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Statistically a firearm is the second best weapon for home defense, in regards to protecting from loss of property or injury.
The best weapon is any other weapon besides a firearm.
what a nanny state supportee thing to type.
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Hardly, I believe that one has the right to have firearms. Not because we they are the most effective form of home defense, they just aren't. But because the government shouldn't interfere with our lives, pursuit of happiness and private property.
Trying to justify firearm ownership for faulty reasons does a disservice to the right to ownership, it certainly doesn't help.
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BS
the only ice in VA is in a Virginia Gentleman & Norther Neck Ginigerale highball.
if it is big enought that the ice can make a "thunk" then
!!!111:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
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Not because we they are the most effective form of home defense, they just aren't
I'll bite, what is?
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a really gud troll = win
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
I'll bite, what is?
Any other weapon.
Florida State University criminologist, Gary Kleck, analyzed data from the Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey (1992-1998). Describing his findings on defensive gun use, in Armed: New Perspectives on Gun Control, New York:Prometheus Books (2001), Kleck writes:
"In general, self-protection measures of all types are effective, in the sense of reducing the risk of property loss in robberies and confrontational burglaries, compared to doing nothing or cooperating with the offender. The most effective form of self-protection is use of a gun. For robbery the self-protection meaures with the lowest loss rates were among victims attacking the offender with a gun, and victims threatenting the offender with a gun. For confrontational burglarly, attacking with a gun had the second lowest loss rate of sixteen self-protection measures, bested only by another mode of armed self-protection, threatening the offender with a nongun weapon." (p. 291)
"[W]hile defensive gun use is generally safe, it does not appear to be uniquely safe among self-protection methods as data from earlier NCVS data suggested. Nevertheless, there does not appear to be any increase in injury risk due to defensive gun use that counterbalances its greater effectiveness in avoiding property loss." (p. 292)
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgeff.html
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haha. gun nuts rule. i didn't know suburban dwellers were so paranoid.
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A Mag-lite and a knife.
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clerk:: can i help you?
me:: yes I'd like to buy any other weapon.
clerk:: sir, what do you want?
me:: i want any other weapon, i heard any other weapon was better than a gun.
clerk:: yes of course, over here we have a fine selection of tennis rackets.
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looks like the city boys have been reading the brady bunch bull.
I am not sure how a pillow or tennis racket would be a better way for a woman or a weaker person to stop a burglar who had spent a lot of his life in the gladiator academies we call prisons.
The thing is.. guns do indeed stop over one and a half million crimes a year. I am not sure what "other" weapon would have worked better or if there even is one besides fists, that is used as often. With that kind of numbers it would seem that the city boys are just hiding their head in the sand or... they live very sheltered lives.
What is funny is that guys that are not too imaginative or far thinking tend to believe that because they are young and in decent shape and so far that has been enough... that it will always be so with them.
I want more options than to run away screaming and begging for the police or just taking it. or... a tennis racket or the car pillow.
lazs
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haha. gun nuts rule. i didn't know suburban dwellers were so paranoid.
I keep a 357 in an electronic finger tip-lock safe in my bedroom, loaded with 38 specials. It's not about being paranoid, or even believing that I will ever have to use it. Statistically, there are far more "serious" things to worry about like driving to work or taking a shower given where I live and my other personal demographics.
However, there is that irony thing. As a gun collector with a safe full of firearms locked up downstairs, it would just suck to encounter that one in a million home invasion and have to confront the 250 lb hardened criminal with nothing but my nightstand lamp. If the criminal didn't kill me, the irony surely would.
Charon
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Great little story on the news this morning pertaining to the subject.
Two Morons invaded an apartment, forced the man and wife into the kitchen area an proceeded to ransack the place. There was another person there, hiding, who slipped the hubby his gun. Hubby shot both Einsteins and sent them to the hospital. The two lead catchers had a bud that was breaking into an apartment upstairs at the same time. He got held at knife point until the PD arrived.
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(quote) However, there is that irony thing. As a gun collector with a safe full of firearms locked up downstairs, it would just suck to encounter that one in a million home invasion and have to confront the 250 lb hardened criminal with nothing but my nightstand lamp. If the criminal didn't kill me, the irony surely would.
Charon (unquote)
:rofl
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Guns? Who needs stinking guns?!?
Chuck Norris protects my house.
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lazs, you don't even know what you are arguing against.
"The thing is.. guns do indeed stop over one and a half million crimes a year. I am not sure what "other" weapon would have worked better or if there even is one besides fists, that is used as often. With that kind of numbers it would seem that the city boys are just hiding their head in the sand or... they live very sheltered lives."
A shorter way of saying this might be, "I don't have a darn clue what the statics for non-firearm weapon defense is, but I better ridicule people just in case.".
Kleck is pro-gun, but don't let that get in the way of your pigeon-holing.
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thrawn... I am aware of the study and I still maintain that in most cases a gun is the best tool. in some cases... nothing else will do at all.
Now... you can take your chances that screaming or driving away (u realize that was one of the "other weapons right?) will be good enough.
If no one hears you... if you are not in a car.. if the attacker or attackers are a lot more powerful... you simply will not be effective without a firearm... you may be able to run away but a gun won't stop you from running.
Point is.. all the "weapons" you talk about are available to someone who has a gun but... he can also have the gun if he needs it.
Real life shootings are rife with examples of people who have tried everything they could think of before they were forced to shoot.
I have been armed and simply drove away from a bad situation... in that respect.. you could say that the car was... if not more effective, at least as effective as... a gun. That is not to say that the gun was uneeded.....If the car stalled say... if I couldn't get into it fast enough... I would still have the gun. I would have more options.
If you are trying to imply that in most shootings there was a better way to handle the situation then I would disagree.
lazs
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Hardly, I believe that one has the right to have firearms. Not because we they are the most effective form of home defense, they just aren't.
Originally posted by Thrawn
Any other weapon.
Florida State University criminologist, Gary Kleck, analyzed data from the Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey (1992-1998). Describing his findings on defensive gun use, in Armed: New Perspectives on Gun Control, New York:Prometheus Books (2001), Kleck writes:
"In general, self-protection measures of all types are effective, in the sense of reducing the risk of property loss in robberies and confrontational burglaries, compared to doing nothing or cooperating with the offender. The most effective form of self-protection is use of a gun. For robbery the self-protection meaures with the lowest loss rates were among victims attacking the offender with a gun, and victims threatenting the offender with a gun. For confrontational burglarly, attacking with a gun had the second lowest loss rate of sixteen self-protection measures, bested only by another mode of armed self-protection, threatening the offender with a nongun weapon." (p. 291)
"[W]hile defensive gun use is generally safe, it does not appear to be uniquely safe among self-protection methods as data from earlier NCVS data suggested. Nevertheless, there does not appear to be any increase in injury risk due to defensive gun use that counterbalances its greater effectiveness in avoiding property loss." (p. 292)
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgeff.html
Thrawn, can you tell me exactly where, in your quote above, that it says the gun isn't overall the most effective form of home defense, please?
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I halfway agree with Thrawn. I think any weapon used in self-defense in the home is far less effective than deterrence. If you take the necessary measures to educate yourself and provide for your own physical security, you'll likely never have to defend yourself at home. That is the objective, right? To protect yourself without being forced to kill somebody in your own home?
Billy Badguy will always pass up a hard target for a soft one. If he chooses you instead of your neighbors, you used too much bait.
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i read there's a tazer shotgun that fires a big spread of individual 1-minute duration taze 'darts'.
sounds like a good thing unless the crook is wearing something that prevents the darts from hooking him.
would be fun to watch someone with 5 of those things in their chest hehe.
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vor.. it depends... I assume that you are a young male in decent shape (given your being in the service).
I believe that you have a narrow and distorted view of self defense because of that. Imagine the things you would do (unarmed) against an assailant and then put yourself in the place of your mother or sister or grandmother or.. the hunchback out on dissability down the street.
I did not suggest that you picture yourself old or infirm because I know that young people are incapable of such thinking.
steve... thanks for digging that up.. I know a lot of people missread or missinterpret what keck says... I recall that he said once that more improvised weapons were used in the U.S. than guns... I don't believe he ever said that they were more effective.
lazs
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because I know that young people are incapable of such thinking.
Lazs, that's not true. All it takes is taking care of just one elderly for a short while.
Unless you mean very young youngsters.
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Lazs, notice that when I ask Thrawn for an explanation of his position, based on his own information, he is nowhere to be found. Typical.
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I think you missed my point, lazs.
My point (in clearer words) was: it's more effective to invest more time and energy into making yourself an uninviting, hard target than it is deciding what kind of gun you'll shoot someone with. If it comes down to that, well, good luck.
There's an old saying: I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun YOU. Make your home more secure and less flashy than your neighbors.
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Originally posted by VOR
Make your home more secure and less flashy than your neighbors.
so you want us to hide in our castles, raise the draw bridge, drive old cars so they wont get carjacked, how about if you dress like a bum so the bad guy will think your poor?
sorry ,you hide, i'm going to live like i want to.
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Whatever.
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Originally posted by john9001
so you want us to hide in our castles, raise the draw bridge, drive old cars so they wont get carjacked, how about if you dress like a bum so the bad guy will think your poor?
sorry ,you hide, i'm going to live like i want to.
yup go ahead and polish up the old double wide. I'll chip in for some new taillights.
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Originally posted by john9001
so you want us to hide in our castles, raise the draw bridge, drive old cars so they wont get carjacked, how about if you dress like a bum so the bad guy will think your poor?
Uh Oh! Does this mean I have to sell my extensive, designer Mr. T gold chain collection?
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vor... criminals are impulsive, lazy and stupid.
Your plan will not work. they will steal anything that is easy... the only thing a criminal understands is force. that is all.
You can put yourself at less of a risk.. be less of an attractive target but even if you go through all those hoops and lifestyle adjustments and thinking... some dumb crook somewhere will figure you can't afford an alarm system like the more flashy neighbor..
worse.. they are backward and superstitious and prone to believe anything that sounds good to em... you don't know that some other dumb crook hasn't said that you have a stash of krugerands and that you don't have a gun in the house or some such...
lazs
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If my plan ever fails, there's always plan B. ;)
I don't think it will ever come to plan B, tho. Also, I think you might be underestimating the thought process of the average crook. They aren't all crackheads. Some, in fact, are quite smart and very good at what they do.
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vor.. some may be smart... I knew more than I ever should have tho and never met one who was not lazy and impulsive and willing to believe anything that sounded good to him.
also... the smart ones aren't burglars or the ones who break into homes or assault people for cash.
lazs
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Originally posted by VOR
Also, I think you might be underestimating the thought process of the average crook. They aren't all crackheads. Some, in fact, are quite smart and very good at what they do.
lawyers, investment bankers, politicians, real estate developers.
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All bulletproof.
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Just curious. I know a lot here frequent the range and does a lot of target shooting/plinking, etc.
Who practices identifying/shooting in low to no light conditions?
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At our indoor range the lighting can vary quite a bit. I often put the target in the dimmest places, which probably approximate shadows in a large room with one side light on.
Long ago in the Air Force we did some total dark shooting at about 7 yards to show how difficult that is but also that it is doable. I particularly remember how the first shot or two was mainly to facilitate aiming the next shots by the flash of the first shots, which was considerable.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Just curious. I know a lot here frequent the range and does a lot of target shooting/plinking, etc.
Who practices identifying/shooting in low to no light conditions?
very good point. in my case never.
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There is only one problem with shooting in total or near dark... after the first shot you will be blind for 20-60 seconds depending on your eyesight.
lazs
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It would seem that way, but we used the muzzle flash to provide illumination so we could use the iron sights to see the target however sketchily.
Haven't done that for a long time, but I remember that worked and we did manage to hit the targets in subsequent shots but not so much the first shot in total darkness.
That was with GI 1911 .45s.
Doubt if that would work with ported barrels though -- too much straight up flash instead of forward flash.
Can somebody who shoots with ported barrels enlighten us, so to speak?
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Ya know if I was a burglar in the states I'd just throw a tear gas grenade in yer house and be done with it. Or maybe a that crazy ruskie sleeping gas.
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Ha! It is to laugh. Deluxe outside light sensors include CBR countermeasures that prevent launch of unauthorized projectiles, confirm hostile substances, incapacitate intruders, and dial 911.
Oh yeah? I'll bet you all the numbers in the universe.
Yeah? I'll bet you twice all the numbers in the universe.
You can't have more numbers than all the numbers in the universe.
Yeah? I'll bet you three times all the numbers in the universe.
:huh
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Ya know if I was a burglar in the states I'd just throw a tear gas grenade in yer house and be done with it. Or maybe a that crazy ruskie sleeping gas.
you gotta be vulcan kidding me. do you know what we vulcan do to tear gassers here?
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(http://files.blog-city.com/files/D05/153426/p/f/beer_looter_dude.jpg)
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I don't know.. with my magnum revolvers and short shotguns and 45 with hydrashok ammo.. the flash makes me blind for a bit.. you do get a glimpse of the target and if it doesn't move I guess you could put another round in that direction.
lazs
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i don't like shooting into the dark, i like to identify my targets, just turn on the light and say "make my day".
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Absolutely. I was recalling a night training exercise under controlled range conditions. No way I would fire at anything unless it was positively confirmed as hostile life threatening.
So as you can surmise, with that normal hesitation and prudence, I would be terminated quickly by any halfway competent aggressor retaining the initiative.
:(