Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Technical Support => Topic started by: TEShaw on February 20, 2007, 05:48:22 PM
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Brought my computer home from the shop for the fourth time (that's 8 trips down and up the 55 stairs, and I actually have a muscle strain in my neck and shoulder, and it hurts to swallow); and, I just saw it working fine in the shop, but now, it wouldn't start here at home (new power supply and install, labor [oh, plus new RAM, new motherboard, new case]).
In madness, desperation, and some extravagent hope of winning the lottery, I brought in my heavy-duty extenson cord from an outside-the-house circuit, plugged it in, and now the big computer works fine.
Getting suspiscious?
Get this: my second computer is on the same dedicated in-door circuit I had built just for these two computers, and it's been working fine through this whole ordeal...who'dda thunk?
THERE"S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE DEDICATED, SINGLE-PURPOSE, ELECTRIC CIRCUIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Where a 250 watt-powered secondary-computer worked fine; but, the 500 watt computer kept ****ing failing)
The guys in the shop were cagey, and they never would admit that they could get my system to fail.
4 trips: RAM, motherboard, power supply, case, reconfigure hard-drive array. Just off the top of my head that was something like $700...nickled and dimed along the way, always thinking the last co-incidental failure would now have been fixed....
Those ignorant, f*****g, a******s never did a decent test, they just replaced whatever part most sounded like it would solve the temporary problem.
And all those old parts that got thrown away? ...they were probably still good, after all.
I admit that I'd also decided that this is not the right time to build a new expensive system...DX10, video cards, windows Vista....
But now, who's eye should I stab out?
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I'm relatively sure that your tale of woe is accurate in terms of what you experienced. However, the dedicated circuit part falls apart when you say that the other computer worked fine and continues to work on the same circuit as the problem computer. I spent a fair amount of my working life as an industrial/commercial electrician. Were/are both computers plugged into the same outlet on the dedicated circuit? Is there a power strip or UPS involved? Did you try both sides of the outlet? What is the condition of the power cord that actually connects directly to the pc? Did you try a different power cord?
What you describe says that something other than the dedicated circuit is involved, provided you described the scenario accurately insofar as you know.
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Irwink, I appreiate your interest and hope you can help....
Were/are both computers plugged into the same outlet on the dedicated circuit?
Yes.
Is there a power strip or UPS involved?
Yes.
Did you try both sides of the outlet?
Yes.
What is the condition of the power cord that actually connects directly to the pc? Did you try a different power cord?
Yes, tried different power cord.
Dude, I'm totally saying that the dedicated power circuit went bad. I can't think of anything else. (Tell me where I'm wrong!)
Here's this beautiful computer totally running off my washing machine circuit and it won't power up off this dedicated in-door circuit, even though the dumb secondary computer runs fine on the 'dedicated' circuit.
Dude, I've wired houses too.
Tell me where I'm wrong.
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Let's assume it's not the wires. What if it's the PSU? The PSU draws too much, can't get enough juice maybe? You say the difference is one is 250W the other is much higher. Well this means it also requires more juice to keep producing the power for your computer, right?
I'd say that, if computer B works, and computer A doesn't, then it's not the power. If it was the power, both computer A and B would cease to function. Since at least one works, I would say the problem is between the socket and the computer, rather than behind the wall.
This is just my logical thinking on the matter. I'm not an electrician or anything.
EDIT: Or, say the socket only provides N amps, which is enough to run the 250W but not the 450W. I wouldn't say it's a bad circuit, it just might not have the juice needed?
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Plus, electrian dude...
The machine boots up on the out-door washing-machine circuit from a 50 foot extension cord...
But it won't boot for lack of power (I guess) , from this code-certified circuit, which the electricians and the county inspector approved.
I'm betting the circuit breaker has to be bad.
What you got?
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Plus, this is totally electrical; and, therefore undeniable.
My computer runs on the 50' extension cord from the outside outlet with the washing machine.
It will not power up from the dedicated in-door circuit which the code-certified electricians put in 8 years ago.
Look, I'm trying to be nice...
Therefore...
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There are a few possibilities. Lack of power in the dedicated circuit is not one of them. One thing about decent extension cords - most often the blades of the male power cord that you are plugging into the female end of the decent extension cord fit more snugly than they do in an outlet be the outlet in the wall, the power strip or whatever. That's not always the case but it often is. Outlets wear out from years of wear due to plugging in and out. Cheap grade outlets wear out or fail more quickly. If you've truly tried more than one power cord for the pc you can probably rule out a problem with that. Try plugging the pc back into the outlet you normally use and wiggle the plug while you try to power up the pc. Try wiggling every point of connection. If you usually plug into the power strip, forget the strip for a moment and plug directly into the wall outlet. See if there's a difference in the way the blades of the working pc's power cord fit into the outlet.
The bottom line is that if one computer has continued to work without fail this whole time there is nothing wrong with the circuit. Just for grins, what size is the circuit breaker (or, cod forbid, the fuse) that supplies it? How far away is the outlet from the circuit breaker or fuse? You can get voltage drop over a very long distance but that's almost never a factor in a residential setting. I'm talking hundreds of feet between circuit breaker and outlet. Anyway, the other pc would be having problems too. As far as how much power your pc needs - look at the specs on the psu name tag. Chances are your circuit breaker or fuse is at least 15 amps. Don't be confused by how many amps the psu supplies to the computer - that amperage is delivered at low voltages and is meaningless more or less in terms of what the power supply needs from the circuit that supplies it. No computer that you or I are ever likely to own will ever get even close to taxing that capacity by itself.
Good luck. I'll be interested to hear what you find out.
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Leave the puter plugged into the washing machine plug and tell her to hump the clothes down the 55 steps to the creek and beat them on rocks.
shamus
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Originally posted by TEShaw
And all those old parts that got thrown away? ...they were probably still good, after all.
Heh heh heh. You think those parts got THROWN AWAY?
Those parts are now probably installed into those tech's personal machines at home. Or they store up enough parts to create a whole new machine from scratch.
There is so much incompetence and evil in this industy, I seriously don't know what some of my clients would do if I got out of the business. And I've had some clients since 1989.
-Llama
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No further tests are required.
Things are as I reported.
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For whatever you blah lah type...
there is one thing for certain:
My computer fails to start on the one circuit...
But it starts fine on the other circuit.
Draw your own conclusions.
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I see two possibilities that have not been mentioned as of yet.
1) Noise
As you know AC power is delivered at a specific frequency, much like a single tone broadcast over the radio. Interference can be added to the circuit by any component, fuses, outlets, running the circuit too close to the AC unit, almost anything. Higher end power supplies are normally more sensitive to noise than cheaper or older models.
2) Power Factor
Power factor is the phase relationship between the frequencies of the current in an AC circuit to that of the voltage. Normal these they are in perfect synchronization; this is referred to as a power factor of 1. When these two characteristic are not in phase it can cause serious problems. Newer power supplies include a power correction feature, meaning that they do not alter the power factor of the circuit they are on. This is NOT to say they’ll correct the power factor of the circuit they are on. Your older lower wattage supply could be significantly affecting the circuit’s power factor, which your newer one is more sensitive to.
If it’s a problem with the power factor, a simply test of disconnecting the lower wattage supply would result in your problem computer functioning perfectly... (In which case it’s the lower wattage supply that needs replaced, the price of which will be offset by a moderate reduction in your electric bill)
If it's noise in the line your going to need to call an electrician, as can not think of any easy way to conclusively identify that as a the culprit, or remove it if it is…
Hope that helps, Good luck.
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Gator, I totally appreciate your response. (Keep it coming.)
But, here's the deal:
my computer will start up from some other circuit
it will not start from the local circuit that the electricians and I designed.
It has to be totally obvious that there is something wrong with this dedicated circuit, as the computer will boot up from any dumb outlet in the house, from this 50 foot extension cord.
Have I made myself clear?
Plus, I'm not trying to be smart.
This computer is running great on this 50' extension cord by the washing machine.
I just guess I need a new circuit breaker for this dedicated circuit.
Please tell me where I'm wrong.
I mean, one circuit works, and the other don't.
I didn't invent electricity.
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The working computers powers supply, is not the only suspect when it comes to an altered power factor. Computer monitors, printers, external drives or USB hubs, or pretty much anything that isn’t an incandescent lamp could alter a circuit’s power factor. However I would suspect a power supply as being the most likely suspect. Most manufactured equipment is designed not to adversely effect power factor. However in the PC world, individual computer components (graphics card, motherboard, hard drives) can alter the power factor of the individual power supply rails they reside on, with the assumption that the supply its self is going to clean up their mess… bla bla bla… :huh
Disconnect, not power down, everything from your dedicated circuit that isn’t a lamp and try your problem computer. This will test for power factor issues.
Or it could be noise in the line from the circuit breaker...
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Plus so what I'm saying is that the comp repair guys totally f..d me, because they didn' want to squealing do any homework; they were just too dumb and greedy.
So, my whole point is, plug your system into the washing-machine before you dump $700 on fake dumb dumb liar skank bogus repairs.
Had I tested this circuit, I'd be $700 richer.
I'm an $700 idiot.
my warm regards, TEShaw
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Originally posted by TEShaw
I'm an $700 idiot.
:O
Hell in computers alone I'm at lest a four figure idiot... add the car in there and you can add even more digits.
Live and learn.
Let me know if you do get that computer running on the curcuit that was built for it, I’m curious.
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No, here's the deal: there is recently something wrong with that household circuit...
nothing else on there but the computers...but it has to be bad...
the computers work from every other circuit in the house...
OK, I lied; I'm not a big-shot electrician, I only wired this entire house, and for 8 years this computer circuit has been solid...
can there be possibly be something bad now about the circuit-breaker that makes this one dedicated circuit bad?
Sheesh, I just wasted $700 dollars to fake computer repair guys (hint to guys who have no jobs yet.)
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Gator, the computers work fine from extension cords from outside the house.
Plus the jerks at the computer shop screwd me.
Plus, what can I do? Put a new 15 amp breaker in the scarey outside box?
(Yeah, I know, go to the outside box, shut off all incoming power, I can do it! )
Guess, I'll have to be an electrical hero.
OK, I don't even remember what this circuit breaker I previously installed even does, but it had to be at least 15 amps; why is this dumb dedicated circuit f***ing me around?
I'll remind you that these computers are supposed to be on a single dedicated circuit that I designed and the f*****g electricians okayed..
Plus this circuit has worked fine for the last 2 years.
I don't get it.
Buy and install new circuit breaker in the big, scarey, electrical box outside my house? I can do it!
I'm trying to be nice here.
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Shaw, I'm not sure where you are but there is one fact that holds true wherever ac power and circuit breakers are involved. You either have power or you don't. There's no in between that would let one system run and the other not (other than a bad outlet or loose connection).
If the breaker isn't tripped, I'd be looking at the outlets in the room for loose connections or just plain bad outlets. If it is tripped, you could have a more serious problem or as you say, you may just have a bad breaker.
Edit: If you're where I think you are (down under), that new power supply you got may have a mainland China power cord that looks identical to your cords, but doesn't fit properly in the recessed outlets you use. That would also explain why the extension cord works, but the outlet doesn't. The easy way to test that is to take the cord off of the computer that works and put it on the one that doesn't.
The reason there's a long span between the post and edit time is I was an electrical engineer for most of my life and retired from it 7 years ago. I knew there was something different down under but couldn't put my finger on it. So, I called a friend who is still in the industry and he simply said the outlets are different. That sparked my memory, and posted about the recessed outlet and it also brings to mind that the hot (you call it active I think) and neutral are reversed on China cords as compared to Aussie cords.
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There is only a couple of things that could effect a local circuit in a home.
1) The gauge of wire. If the gauge is too small, the wire will not be able to carry the current needed to power the larger computer. The breaker need not trip in **** case, but the wire will getvery warm and could represent a fire hazard.
2) The wiring run is of sufficient length that the voltage levels are dropping below what the switching power supply in the computer needs to function. Again this points to too small a gauge of wire being used.
3) Improper ground in the AC circuit. Iti s posiible the ground in that circuit is an electrical gounrd versus an Earth ground? A simple ground test should show something wrong if this is the case.
If I reacll, you said this is an 8 year old circuit. POssibly the combination of age and smaller gauge wiring? As copper ages, its resistance does increase slightly.
Also, I assume you have switched out the power strip and tried another one. Not just a different socket. A different strip.
Just some thoughts.
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Originally posted by TEShaw
For whatever you blah lah type...
there is one thing for certain:
My computer fails to start on the one circuit...
But it starts fine on the other circuit.
Draw your own conclusions.
I have. You have ventured into a field for which you have just enough knowledge to kill yourself and/or others. Do-it-yourself "electricians" are truly scary. Call a real electrician.
Gator01: Power factor in a single phase residential circuit!? Amazing...
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
[3) Improper ground in the AC circuit. Iti s posiible the ground in that circuit is an electrical gounrd versus an Earth ground? A simple ground test should show something wrong if this is the case.
[/B]
This is what I was gonna say. Check the ground in that circuit. I willing to bet its bad. Circuits can go bad because of those pesky field mice too,lol.
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Originally posted by Irwink!
Gator01: Power factor in a single phase residential circuit!? Amazing...
I didn’t say it was a common occurrence, but it is a possibility that hasn’t been rolled out yet. Another possibility is divine intervention, but I think that isn’t likely... The big man has got bigger things on his plate, and it doesn’t seem like Shaw has done anything to warrant his wrath.
In order for one power supply to work and the other not, there has to be a difference between them. All I can think of as even possibilities are sensitivity to noise, PF, and as Skuzzy said improper grounding. The last of which now that I think about it seems like a more “common sense” diagnosis and the simplest solution is normally the correct one.
As for wire size and lenght, I'm not saying that couldn't be it, but the only way that would affect the power supply would be through a voltage drop at the outlet. My feeling is that that both supplies would be equally sensitive to reduced voltage... plus it sounds like he had two computer running on the curcuit for some time before, and they both worked, and the house didn't burn down.
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I hate to do this, but ROFL. Do you know how long the wire would need to be to have the voltage drop below 100 volts on a 120 volt/15 amp circuit? Can we say somewhere around 400ft with 14ga wire at full load? That's why voltage drop usually isn't a problem in your common home. :)
[Edit:] Even using 18ga wire (totally illegal everywhere) you'd be looking around 160ft for that kind of drop. And yes you would have one heck of a toaster going with that wire. [/edit]
I will agree with the possibility of under sized wire combined with being too long and the breaker not tripping. But he did say the circuit design was approved by engineers. So, I'd not be looking there unless he cheated when he wired it.
But let's also remember we're talking about a computer here. It doesn't draw a whole heck of alot of amperage. Maybe 4 to 5 amps at 120v, half that at 220v.
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they just replaced whatever part most sounded like it would solve the temporary problem.
What makes you think they "replaced" anything as it most likely worked for them when the tryed it on their bench .
I got shafted once at a car dealership that way once , NEVER GONNA HAPPEN AGAIN .
I would be for SURE going back to that workshop and getting EVERYTHING that they took out of your PC . Or getting it out of their HIDES .
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I totaly appreciate all your ideas. Please keep them coming.
And, you're obviously not required to electrify my house.
I haven't gone out to look again, but this is probably a 20 amp circuit that I installed with the appropriate Romex wiring. Plus, the electricians checked it for code. And, it has worked fine for 8 years.
The outdoor-box and direct-wired circuit are less than 15 feet from where I'm typing.
I can use the extension cord and run the computer from every other circuit in my house.
How could the newest, freshest circuit in my house go bad except for something about the circuit-breaker, which, I cannot even imagine.
Nontheless, I can run the computer from an extension cord, from any other outlet in the house.
The length of the tines on the cord not matching the outlet? This is the best suggestion you've given me so far...but all my other senses say that I shouldn't crawl around under the desk to like, SOMEHOW check this out.
I am so sick of crawling under this desk.
Plus, the computer repair guys totally jagged me for $700, which is what this thread is about.
Plus, this circuit has the same ground as everything else in the outside box, that powers everything in my stupid house. C'mon, grounding cannot be issue.
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Originally posted by airspro
What makes you think they "replaced" anything as it most likely worked for them when the tryed it on their bench .
I got shafted once at a car dealership that way once , NEVER GONNA HAPPEN AGAIN .
I would be for SURE going back to that workshop and getting EVERYTHING that they took out of your PC . Or getting it out of their HIDES .
E'rthing that Airspro just said, except don't take it out of their hides, I recommend presenting them a fuel bill for the 4 ... err (now 5) trips there.
Don't feel the least bit bad about it. In-laws just got security windows done $26K. Then sister-in -law gets the same quote from same guy (end result -- same job for $11k) and I still think they both got taken!!!!
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Guys, I really don't think he wants help. He is not listening or willing to climb under the desk. Let him use the extension cord and sulk over his $700. In the mean time the circuit could be degrading to a point where it becomes a fire hazard.
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Polarity? either in the outlet or in the power supply
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I am still trying to be a nice guy.
I don't know what's going on.
Solar, I'm logging on now from the dumb computer, then I'm going to shoot you down.
Be prepared.
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I salute everyone who's paid attention to this thread so far...and it gets even more bizarre..
Here comes the newest jaggy part.
The big computer now can see nothing.
It's gotta be the the video card or CPU...there's nothing else left they can jag me with.
Because I already bought and bought whatever they suggested.
So, $700 into this, I'm still f****d.
Plus now, I'll get to spend another $400 on video cards, and then CPU, because I am such a stupid, stupid, JO.
And, when I call myself a JO...the 'J' stands for JAG...you can figure out the rest.
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Step one......
Use a circuit tester (http://www.ehow.com/buy_5244_circuit-tester.html) to check the quality of the circuit itself....
Then use a PS tester (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=246) to check the PS. I'd guess that either your getting "dirty" power or the circuit isn't delivering what it should....
Common sense says the problem is the circuit itself....sounds like a classic case of dirty power (http://www.j-q.com/dirty.htm) to me.
of course if everything with the power does check out then your probably being played and you need this.....
(http://trnorton.com/dp/vasoline.jpg)
To assist you with proper placement of the computer in the appropriate locale:D
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Anybody mention a loose connection yet? Maybe a bad outlet? Or maybe a gfci breaker going bad?
Probably, I just started skimming when TEshaw got insulting.
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At what point did I get insulting?
I began every post with a thank you.
Plus, I'm not even going to look at the circuit again, until I get to buy a new video card.
This has been so much fun.
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Oh, I see where I was insulting..
I was slightly making fun of guys who have no jobs. Talk to Woodie Guthrie (I ain't got no home in this world anymore.)
Look, I'm still trying to be nice here.
And now I'm accused of being insulting.
The outdoor circuit box must have the exact same ground that it had for the last eight years. Everything else is grounded to that. Of course.
As for the outlet, I've never touched it except to plug in the computers once or twice in a decade.
OK, I still haven't gone outside to look, but it's almost assuredly a 20 amp circuit, proper Romex, and I'm typing from the other computer which is less than 15 feet from the box that the electricians approved when they jagged me 8 years ago.
So, you think it's a problem with the ground-fault interrupter circuit breaker?
Fine, I can replace that.
I can also replace the ATI 800 video card in the AGP slot.
I'm not trying to be nasty to anyone here. I just think you ought to have a laugh about my stupid, stupid computer problems.
Are you identifying with some imaginary electricians that I employed 8 years ago?
And, I'm still being nice.
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OK.
I don't even know what 'dirty power' is.
But, the computer works fine from every other circuit in the house.
Now here's this code-approved circuit that is dedicated exclusively to my computers, and, as I've said, I haven't pulled the cord from the outlet but twice in the last decade.
Plus, i don't claim to be a know-it-all.
So, what you're all saying is: replace the circuit breaker, right?
I'm just trying to tell you, in my crude way, what I'm experiencing, plus, tomorrow, i get to buy and install a new video-card too.
This is just too great.
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Have you tried to plug in your extention cord into the exact same outlet that the other working computer is using? If not, try it and post results.
If it works, then try to plug the extention cord into the outlet that you know doesn't work for your computer. If it works, please post results.
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Originally posted by TEShaw
OK.
I don't even know what 'dirty power' is.
But, the computer works fine from every other circuit in the house.
Now here's this code-approved circuit that is dedicated exclusively to my computers, and, as I've said, I haven't pulled the cord from the outlet but twice in the last decade.
Plus, i don't claim to be a know-it-all.
So, what you're all saying is: replace the circuit breaker, right?
I'm just trying to tell you, in my crude way, what I'm experiencing, plus, tomorrow, i get to buy and install a new video-card too.
This is just too great.
For some reason the link isnt good....dirty power (http://www.answers.com/topic/dirty-power).
At this point i'm guessing this a troll, its not to hard to figure this one out. No one with any common sense is going to replace parts in a working computer becuase it doesnt work in a particular socket. My car worked just fine when I bought it, that doesnt mean it'll run forever without repairs.
I'd invest $20 in multimeter before I give the techies another freebie.....
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Look, I'm still trying to be nice here.
Why wouldn't you be nice ? It's your problem and people are trying to help you. :confused:
Why would put that much money into a used pc ? You could build a decent core duo for alittle more .
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kermit, since you requested these tests and my report...
I used a multi-tester to check eash socket on both circuits involved. Both circuits test out at 110.
OK, now, both computers are plugged into the same surge protector, so I moved the surge protector around to the sockets from the 15 amp lamp circuit and the 20 amp dedicated computer circuit.
The little back-up computer powers up fine either way. The big computer will only power up when the surge protector is plugged into the lamp 15 amp circuit.
my regards, teshaw
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didn't read the whole thread, but from that last post here's a suggestion.
I have never seen or bought a regular commercial surge protector that is rated for 20 amps. look on the packaging, and documentation whatever they are ALL made for 15 amp, and most in small legal print do not offer protection, OR proper power thru with a 20 amp circuit.
you have to buy a special type of surge protector to truly run off a 20 amp circuit, and to provide 20 amp power through it. otherwise the power is getting "chocked" by the surge protector, and all sorts of odd things can reveal themselves then.
you shouldn't need a 20 amp circuit for a PC anyway, a 15 amp dedicated is PLENTY good.
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Originally posted by Mustaine
you shouldn't need a 20 amp circuit for a PC anyway, a 15 amp dedicated is PLENTY good.
OT
Only until the Geforce 22000000000 ultra gtxyzomg vid card comes out.
Then you'll need a nuke power plant to supply power.
:p :p :p :D :D :cool:
Bronk
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OK, here's the latest.
The big computer with the problem, running off the 15 amp lamp circuit will maintain power up, but after 2 to 5 minutes the monitor says 'no video input.'
It's not the video card, I swapped out a brand new one, and same failure after 2-5 minutes...plus, I couldn't get the cd-rom drive to open after that same failure..
I'm flumoxed.
Why does the big computer work ok in the shop the last five times they've changed a part, and then it somehow fails here at home 10 minutes after I boot up?
Plus, the other computer is chugging along fine on the same circuit.
Here's my latest uneducated guess; no, wait, I cannot even guess.
Some kind of power surge got past the protector and damaged every part; and, as I swap out every part the next damaged element fails in 10 minutes or so?
Boot from hard drive...same problem.
Boot from CD with Win XP disk...same problem.
Swap vid cards same problem.
There's almost nothing left to swap. Fine, they say the same p4 chip now costs only $100, and a new hard disk might cost about the same. There is absolutely nothing else left from the old machine, besides those last 2 components, both less than 2 years old.
Too wierd.
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Sounds like the chipset or the processor getting hot and computer locks up. That for the Video problem btw, not your power. It also can be the powersupply getting funky. I have a power supply here that did somewhat the samething as yours. Come to find out the 5VSB circuit on the powersupply was flakey. U can get a 15.00 powersupply tester from Bestbuy or any computer store. It just plugs into the plug that supplies the motherboard from the powersupply. Just plug it in and away it tests it.
http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=77203
This is what i have and works great.
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Or, on another note, can you uplug something from your PSU to see if you aren't trying to run too much inside of the case? Like a floppy drive or all of the optical drives?
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OK, here's the end of the story: (Please, Dear God, let this be the end!)
It's back in the shop.
They're going to give me a 'good deal' on (yet another) power supply, AND [OH, THANK YOU] a 528 vid card, for just another $200. AND, they swear, an in-store one-year guarantee on all parts.
BECAUSE MY OLD COMPUTER HAS CEASED TO EXIST. EVERY PART HAS BEEN REPLACED. (Or lied about in gossip magazines)
End of story, and, the moral : If your computer is not working, just throw it away, and buy a new one, Elvis.
Because Prescilla thinks you should.
Plus, I'm going back tomorrow morning to pick up the big computer, and, I know it's going to fail here after ten minutes.
THIS IS SO BEAUTIFUL
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OK, here we go...
I'm going to plug in this jag computer now.
Don't wish me luck; because, I prolly shot you down 5 times.
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You need to ALWAYS ask for the failing part back.
You need to ask if there is a guarantee on their work every time.
If they plugged it in at their place and it worked, it should have been a courtesy for them to charge you a min bench fee and to tell you - you need to hire an electrician.
No court in the world (well..at least in the US) would not side with you.
Get your parts back. Get your money back. And never go back to that shop again. Too many newbs and computer wanna be experts working out there. The problem is that the boobs that hire them don't realize how little they know because they are clueless themselves.
Usually the mom and pop stores are a bit better. When you visit those stores ask if the owner or manager is around as you ONLY want either Certified techs working on your system or the owner/manager. They are usually the only techs you can trust. Otherwise you end up with an 18 year old kid that is only working to pay for cool speakers and party money. Yes there is a chance you'll get a real wiz, but why risk it?
S
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I'm here to thank all you guys who replied to my problem.
Wow, this computer [THIS NEW COMPUTER] has been running for ten hours. That's more time than it has run in the LAST MONTH!
[I think the electrical grounding for the circuit box is lashed to the water pipe.]
[Living in Hawaii is like living in a third-world-country: phone, electricity, cable... breaks down like, once a week. You have to reset the alarm clock and the micro-wave every other day. Then, there are ants and rats and roaches and scorpions everywhere. I was once stung by a centipede whilst sleeping in my bed.]
I'm back from the brink of suicide; but, just barely. What if it crashes this morning?
Now I have to find a new occupation besides lugging this box down and up 55 stairs EVERY FRIGGING DAY.
Hey! Why can't I have the Da Vinci or Aquarium screen savers like my little secondary computer running XP home entertainment, or whatever it's called?
Will I be suicidal because I cannot have DaVinci or Aquarium screen savers?
Maybe.
Stay tuned for results.