Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: wes34th on February 20, 2007, 09:26:29 PM
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I heard on the news today that the museum of the confederacy in Richmond Virginia is thinking about dropping the name confederacy because they claim that people now associate confederacy with racism.
What do y'all think:)
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People do associate the word confederacy with slavery. That doesn't mean you should drop it.
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Don't revise history to make it "PC". It wasn't "PC" back then and the lessons should remain.
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Should the Italians rename "Rome"?
The Roman Empire enslaved more people than the south ever did.
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I think anyone considering such a name change based solely on that reason has no business administrating a museum dealing with history. It was called the Confederacy, and racism existed in the north too. Maybe even more so.
Nope, changing the name would only be spineless...caving in to pressure, attempting to change historical fact in the interest of misguided political correctness.
Les
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Been there, Pretty sharp Museum.
Just from looking around the building I was able to tell the tour guide more about the building then she knew herself.
Got some sharp stuff there though.
Leave the name alone
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Another sure sign of the rapid decline of the entire nation. Haggard was right when he said "rolling down hill like a snowball headed for Hell".
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they gonna change the name to teh museum of loosers? lol pwnd & pwnt again
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study the renaming of the "confederate air force" to the "commemorative air force". Similar interests were at play. FWIW, I believe I have a fair understanding of the American civil war and the history that led to it and from it.
American blacks see the confederate flag and the symbolism of the confederacy as one of race hatred, slavery and oppression but it was much more than that. It was a battle of state sovereignty versus federalism. Federalism prevailed. Get over it. I do believe that as far as flags are concerned, the confederate flag is one of the most beautiful even though I detest the relationship between slavery and the confederacy.
I believe that the use of the word "confederacy" in relationship to recognizing American history and honoring the sacrifice of so many Americans must be protected to preserve American heritage. Leave the museum be.
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two statues reside on monument avenue in richmond virginia.
one is general lee. one of the things that i admired most about the reconstruction was that the southerners were allowed to honor their heros. it's a sign of a culture which can accept its past and embrace its highest truths.
the other is the newest statue on the avenue, that of arthur ashe, the gay tennis player who died of aids. i am not particularly fond of it being there, and i think that it is in equisitely poor taste, but i am more open to a good "screw you" when done fairly, than a law that says what can and cannot be said and when.
it ruins the effect of the hero worship and it ticks me off. but its better than tearing down the lee.
it IS the museum of the confederacy.
if you don't like it...build a PC museum complete with fuzzy carpeting next door.
let it be.
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Originally posted by JB88
one of my two favorite statues reside on monument avenue in richmond virginia.
one is general lee. one of the things that i admired most about the reconstruction was that the southerners were allowed to honor their heros. it's a sign of a culture which can accept its past and embrace its highest truths.
the other is the newest statue on the avenue, that of arthur ashe, the gay tennis player who died of aids. i am not particularly fond of it being there, and i think that it is in equisitely poor taste, but i am more open to a good "screw you" when done fairly, than a law that says what can and cannot be said and when.
it IS the museum of the confederacy.
if you don't like it...build a PC museum complete with fuzzy carpeting next door.
let it be.
Arthur Ashe, married with a daughter, died of Aids contracted from a blood transfusion during one of two heart surgeries he had. I don't recall anything suggesting he was homosexual.
I'd suggest that he was one of the classier athletes we've ever had.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Arthur Ashe, married with a daughter, died of Aids contracted from a blood transfusion during one of two heart surgeries he had. I don't recall anything suggesting he was homosexual.
I'd suggest that he was one of the classier athletes we've ever had.
dernit. i was tryin to rile em up.
:furious
:cool:
how about...
"one of the statues is a nude repose of billy jean king and martina navatalova embraced in a hot sexy lesbian love hold."
now go ahead and tell me "that" isnt true.
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Originally posted by Debonair
they gonna change the name to teh museum of loosers? lol pwnd & pwnt again
:rofl
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Originally posted by JB88
two statues reside on monument avenue in richmond virginia.
the other is the newest statue on the avenue, that of arthur ashe, the gay tennis player who died of aids. i am not particularly fond of it being there, and i think that it is in equisitely poor taste, but i am more open to a good "screw you" when done fairly, than a law that says what can and cannot be said and when.
it ruins the effect of the hero worship and it ticks me off. but its better than tearing down the lee.
arthur ashe died from aids which he aquired during a blood transfusion back when militant homosexuals purposefully donated tainted blood prior to the implementation of blood screening. these acts could be considered some of the first examples of terrorism on American soil. arthur ashe bore his illness with great dignity and with malice towards none, a true hero and a great American. frankly I'm surprised you would post something like this, I hope you are trolling.
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H.K. Edgerton Says
(http://main.nc.us/wncceib/edgNAACP2.jpg)
(http://www.rootsweb.com/~txnavarr/markers/last_review_of_the_confederacy/edgerton.jpg)
Far as Im concerned
(http://fourfour.typepad.com/fourfour/images/offends.jpg)
Grow a thicker skin.
There are much more important things to be offended over
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Just as long as the dang Yankees are still buying that silly rumor that they won, anything can happen.
:D
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We have some loser moron here in Tennessee demanding that Middle Tennessee State University change the name on the military science building to something besides "General Nathan Bedford Forrest". The stupid twit doesn't even have a class in the building. She just feels she "ought to be doing something about things like that". I think she should go about 40 miles away and attend Tennessee State University.
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Was ashe such a great tennis player that they had to have a statue of him? Is the south that into tennis?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Is the south that into tennis?
lazs
Only when Biff and Buffy are in town. :)
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is he in tennis clothes and holding a racket in the statue? I didn't even know he was that great of a player.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
is he in tennis clothes and holding a racket in the statue? I didn't even know he was that great of a player.
lazs
He was ranked #1 in the world in 1968 and 1975.
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tennis was huge in the 70's, i remember the battle of the sexes and all that rubbish, lotsa big sideburns.....even on the women:D
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someday people might refer to that war as "the first civil war".
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Ok then... makes sense... local boy makes good. even if you don't like tennis he would be someone the locals would want to show off.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
Ok then... makes sense... local boy makes good. even if you don't like tennis he would be someone the locals would want to show off.
lazs
He is known more for what he did off the court than on, and it's a bit more significant than "local boy makes good."
AFAIAC may as well keep the museum's name as it stands. I have no sympathy for people who take up arms against the US government, but they have a right to name the museum as they please.
The attack on Fort Sumter was the first form of terrorism on American soil.
(http://www.trulyyours.com/images/Proud%20to%20be%20An%20American%20Flag.jpg)
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Just as long as the dang Yankees are still buying that silly rumor that they won, anything can happen.
:D
Ummm.
We destroyed your armies, we burned your cities, we sunk your fleet, we completely changed your way of life and your economy. We won the war. All of your greatest generals were either killed or had to swear allegance to the United States. Your government ceased to exist after 1864.
Of course in the end we declared victory and pulled out, letting the original perpetrators of slavery bring it back under a different name (ie Jim Crow).
In that end we lost that aspect of the war, but I don't think most Southerners are too proud of Segregation, the Klan and seperate water fountains and bathrooms. As far as I am concerned, as a Northerner, it is the North's shame that we let it happen and the South's shame that they even thought of it.
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you guys talk as if the Mason-Dixon line still exists.....does it?
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I think the south has already paid enough for their crimes. Forced to live in trailers and talk like idiots for 150 years. I say we let them rejoin society.
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We have a saying down here that goes sort of like this.
AMERICAN BY BIRTH......SOUTHERN BY THE GRACE OF GOD!!!!
If you don't like southern heritage then go back to Yankee land! :p
If it weren't for all of our fathers (northerner and southerners) sacrifices since the beginning of this great nation none of us would be in this position to argue this point today. Segregation wasn't just a southern thing it was all over our nation and in some ways its worse in the north today than it ever was down here. I think most people in the south (save those you see after a tornado destroyed their trailer and sent "old blue" into the pine tree) don't hold one ounce of racism in their minds or hearts.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
H.K. Edgerton Says
(http://main.nc.us/wncceib/edgNAACP2.jpg)
Grow a thicker skin.
There are much more important things to be offended over
Sorry, but it's the only skin that I'm in. :cool:
Museums do a great service to enlighten curious onlookers to historical artifacts and give us a glimpse of what living in another era might have presented. This museum is in trouble and actually moving. Due to the growth and poor planning there is no adequate parking. If you lived here, you probably drove by it and didn't notice it at all. The building will still be there, but talk of moving the museum is not surprising. What is surprising is the rejection of the "Confederacy" Museum in Lexington.
Very quickly, educate more people on what caused brother to fight against brother. Break down the half truths about who fought and why. Don't try and forget it. Learn from it so that this will never again be repeated.
This is still relatively a recent event in our history. Just four generations separates me from serving young kids to teaching them. What concerns me, is how some use the Confederate flag to symbolize hatred and not unity. Outside of paying hommage to those men who bravely fought for their beliefs, I have no use for it.
Ending thought: Thick skin only protects the more vulnerable internals from repititous irritation (up to some point).
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Originally posted by MoeRon
you guys talk as if the Mason-Dixon line still exists.....does it?
the mason-dixon line is the southern border of pennsylvania, it was surveyed long before the civil war.
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By the surveyors named Mason and Dixon.
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Originally posted by JB88
two statues reside on monument avenue in richmond virginia.
one is general lee. one of the things that i admired most about the reconstruction was that the southerners were allowed to honor their heros. it's a sign of a culture which can accept its past and embrace its highest truths.
the other is the newest statue on the avenue, that of arthur ashe, the gay tennis player who died of aids.
So, those who believe that Arthur Ashe, Richmond native, African American pioneer, and not gay is their hero are not southerners ?:confused:
He was obviously born too late to be a Civil War hero. Was that maybe your point. I agree, to tear down these monuments would be a travisty.
Adding new faces, may put some frowns on the old monuments but they should survive it.:cool:
If you travel south of Broad Street, you will also find a monument to Bojangles. Yes, he too was a pioneer and revered in his day. His contributions are still benefiting those in the entertainment industry today.
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the mason-dixon line is the southern border of pennsylvania, it was surveyed long before the civil war.
i meant that as a cultural boundry, not the actual physical line, sorry.
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so red bottom... what did he do off court that was more important than being top tennis player.. that was so important that no one else did anything like it... so different and important that he deserved a statue?
lazs
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a statue of Frederic Douglass would have made more sense.
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Originally posted by lazs2
so red bottom... what did he do off court that was more important than being top tennis player.. that was so important that no one else did anything like it... so different and important that he deserved a statue?
lazs
Before I did any looking, I thought back to what I remembered about Ashe. It was something about his dignaty and class that carried over to the game. I'm not a Tennis fan at all, but I knew about him as a kid.
Went here and checked. He like any number of African American Athletes I remember from my kid days, was more then just an athlete. I tend to link him to the same type of African American athlete as Bill Russel, Jim Brown and the like.
Ashe's involvement outside the court certainly was important too.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/features/1997/arthurashe/biography.html
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Originally posted by MoeRon
i meant that as a cultural boundry, not the actual physical line, sorry.
I would say that the cultural boundry drifted to the southern maryland border. Back then, it would have been questionable and up for debate if maryland was in the south. Now I wouldn't even consider it.
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Ok.. still missing the point. There were no other men who did as much? if so... where are their statues..
also.. I did not know he was from africa.
lazs
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Many slaves were up north... not just in the south. As for slavery many were sold into slavery by their own people sometimes their own families in Africa. So slavery was not just something white folks dabbled in.
Personally the most racist person I know is a black man. Even my friends of color realize what a idiot that individual is.
In my book a man should be judged on his merit and actions, no matter what color. I also judge one's family by that persons actions, after all they are the only contact I have with that family and you have to assume their actions had to do with hoew they were raised.
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He wasn't from Africa. He was born in Richmond.
He WAS a great Ambassador of Tennis. He was NOT gay either JB88.
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I don't think Dixon, Ca. (sounds like Dixie, .... not guite) counts you as a southerner, Southwestern, maybe............... Laz, bud.
There is a reason that it is called Monument Ave. There are more than just Ashe and Lee there. I would ask the question maybe of other honorees, but I realize that the point is they are considered "heroic" for there deeds.
If nothing else, Arthur Ashe faced the "bullet" just as courageously as any other on the avenue. The fact that he didn't inspire other men toting banners, shouting war cries to drive their bloodied bodies onto bayonettes, doesn't mean that he wasn't inspirational.
Frederick Douglass, was not a Richmond native, and would gleam in even more contraversy. You might as well put the Lincoln Memorial on Monument Avenue for that matter.
It was done to honor a man whose life story, most would say should be the period to the American statement on equality. Instead, it is a question mark? I don't get it:(
Tennis player, Pearl Harbor AA gunner, Tuskeegee Airman, Congressman / Congresswoman, Governor what does it matter if he were the next President of the United States? The question remains, what kind of a man was he that I should erect a likeness in his honor. So, lets say on this end of the avenue we have a man who fought for government where his rights are protected, and on the other end ...... let's see, oh yeah, equal rights :aok
At the end of the day when HIV and then AIDS had its way with the man, he showed courage and put a recognizable face on an epidemic that was politically being ignored. Wasn't the Civil War really about southerners' Rights that were politically being ignored?so red bottom... what did he do off court that was more important than being top tennis player.. that was so important that no one else did anything like it... so different and important that he deserved a statue?
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
He wasn't from Africa. He was born in Richmond.
He WAS a great Ambassador of Tennis. He was NOT gay either JB88.
i know.
i should have read what i posted before posting it.
my bad. hope you will excuse the poor attempt at whatever it was. sorry.
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Originally posted by wklink
Ummm.
We destroyed your armies, we burned your cities, we sunk your fleet, we completely changed your way of life and your economy. We won the war. All of your greatest generals were either killed or had to swear allegance to the United States. Your government ceased to exist after 1864.
Of course in the end we declared victory and pulled out, letting the original perpetrators of slavery bring it back under a different name (ie Jim Crow).
In that end we lost that aspect of the war, but I don't think most Southerners are too proud of Segregation, the Klan and seperate water fountains and bathrooms. As far as I am concerned, as a Northerner, it is the North's shame that we let it happen and the South's shame that they even thought of it.
"We"? wtf? Were you there leading the cavalry? How many ships were in "my" fleet? I didnt know Washington state was a big player in the Civil War.
Some of you "northerners" come across as nothing but cheap punks. Cowards on keyboards.
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hold on thar deppity dawg, the texas metropolitan areas are so full of yankees you guys are starting to beat south florida in the number of people who can't drive, talk funny and have a terrible attitude. last time i was in houston I was amazed at the changes in courtesy and driving habits. now say it ain't so.
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Originally posted by storch
hold on thar deppity dawg, the texas metropolitan areas are so full of yankees you guys are starting to beat south florida in the number of people who can't drive, talk funny and have a terrible attitude. last time i was in houston I was amazed at the changes in courtesy and driving habits. now say it ain't so.
Is this a counter point or what? And why the hell go to Houston?
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Originally posted by Slash27
"We"? wtf? Were you there leading the cavalry? How many ships were in "my" fleet? I didnt know Washington state was a big player in the Civil War.
Some of you "northerners" come across as nothing but cheap punks. Cowards on keyboards.
Uh does your post imply that you were there?
When it comes to keyboard warriors, your post comes pretty close to what you disdain.
Chill out, the war IS over and has been for quite some time. :huh
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the point being there is no "south" per se. atlanta, full of new yorkers. jacksonville, full of new yorkers. nashville, full of new yorkers, charlotte, full of new yorkers. miami? ft lauderdale? it's an epidemic. we aren't even talking about other brands of northerners either. the thing is no matter how many times we tell'm that we don't care how you do it up north and that if they like the north so much we can give them directions to I-95. every year there seems to be more of them.
houston is a great town, I have friends there (well not houston actually but kingwood/humble/san jacinto)
funny story, one of my houston buddies' company got bought out by microsoft and he was moved to new york. he ain't happy.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Ok.. still missing the point. There were no other men who did as much? if so... where are their statues..
also.. I did not know he was from africa.
lazs
I would imagine that Richmond decided to honor one of their own Laz which would be their perogative. They may have seen his accomplisments as something important, where clearly you don't.
Chicago has Michael Jordon as a statue. Outside of basketball, what's the point?
Seems like St. Louis has Stan Musial. Outside of baseball, what's the point?
Apparently they mean something to their towns.
Heaven forbid, Philly has a statue of Rocky. Not even a real person. What's the point?
Me thinks you are making it a bigger deal then need be. If everyone has to pass the Laz standards for becoming a statue, I think the scupltors are going to be out of work :)
If it's to be based on their great accomplishments, then I want statues of my father and grandfather, the greatest men I've ever known. Kinda doubt anyone else will see the need though :)
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Originally posted by Maverick
Uh does your post imply that you were there?
When it comes to keyboard warriors, your post comes pretty close to what you disdain.
Chill out, the war IS over and has been for quite some time. :huh
So you got the disdain? Good, I was afraid I was being too subtle. Did you even read the post I was responding too? If so, what part of my post led you to believe I feel the war is still on? Or I was "there"? Did my use of the quotations throw you or what? damn:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by storch
the point being there is no "south" per se. atlanta, full of new yorkers. jacksonville, full of new yorkers. nashville, full of new yorkers, charlotte, full of new yorkers. miami? ft lauderdale? it's an epidemic. we aren't even talking about other brands of northerners either. the thing is no matter how many times we tell'm that we don't care how you do it up north and that if they like the north so much we can give them directions to I-95. every year there seems to be more of them.
houston is a great town, I have friends there (well not houston actually but kingwood/humble/san jacinto)
funny story, one of my houston buddies' company got bought out by microsoft and he was moved to new york. he ain't happy.
Got ya. Was only kidding about Houston, its just reflex ball busting for fellow Texans. :D
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Originally posted by Slash27
"We"? wtf? Were you there leading the cavalry? How many ships were in "my" fleet? I didnt know Washington state was a big player in the Civil War.
Some of you "northerners" come across as nothing but cheap punks. Cowards on keyboards.
Grant was quartermaster in Ft. Vancouver (now WA) for a couple years exactly a decade before he got win to lee's fail.
Ft. Vancouver is also the world oldest operating airport & Grant's old HQ is the best place to get a drink after u land there
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Welp, wklink yankee boy....let's examine a few facts shall we.
With four times the manpower and ten times the industry and financing it only took the Union FOUR YEARS to conquer the Confederacy.
In doing so, the Union suffered 360,000 casualties. That's approximately .017 percent of the 21 million population of the northern states.
By contrast, the current war in Iraq, which was such a hot-button issue in northern "blue states" during the last election has produced 3,000 casualties. That's approximately .000010 percent of the current population.
Now, let's say that the United States today faced a similar revolutionary struggle to that of the Civil War. If a similar casualty rate is sustained, the Union would suffer about 3,000,000 casualties.
Given the fact that much of the opposition to the "quagmire" in Iraq is to be found in the "blue states" I doubt seriously the civilian populations of those states would be willing to support a war effort that was that bloody.
In effect, you couldn't do it again.
As to the matter of the South producing the KKK, even a cursory examination of the historical record will show that the northern states had a larger Klan membership than did the South. While the northern states did not have the de jure segregation of Jim Crow, they substituted de facto segregation instead, in the form of zoning ordinances designed to keep the "riff raff" from building homes in the more upscale neighborhoods.
Evidence of northern hypocracy in matters racial surface during the inner city racial riots of the 1960s.
So how about exhibiting a little humility when you start blathering about the South's defeat during the Civil War. Your hands are not clean by any means.
Oh...and by the way...the Great Emancipator was born a Southerner.
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Originally posted by Debonair
Grant was quartermaster in Ft. Vancouver (now WA) for a couple years exactly a decade before he got win to lee's fail.
Ft. Vancouver is also the world oldest operating airport & Grant's old HQ is the best place to get a drink after u land there
Noted:aok
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Originally posted by Debonair
they gonna change the name to teh museum of loosers? lol pwnd & pwnt again
Meet ya at Fredrickburg yankee boy :D ;)
Seriously, what is this country coming to? PC morons
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
He is known more for what he did off the court than on, and it's a bit more significant than "local boy makes good."
AFAIAC may as well keep the museum's name as it stands. I have no sympathy for people who take up arms against the US government, but they have a right to name the museum as they please.
The attack on Fort Sumter was the first form of terrorism on American soil.
Thats just silly. It was far from a suprise attack that no knew was coming. How long did the warning last before action occurred? 2 months? (I dont know and am too lazy to look it up, but it was quite a while).
BTW the taking up of arms against the government is what keeps our government one that is "by the people"
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Originally posted by Slash27
So you got the disdain? Good, I was afraid I was being too subtle. Did you even read the post I was responding too? If so, what part of my post led you to believe I feel the war is still on? Or I was "there"? Did my use of the quotations throw you or what? damn:rolleyes:
Oh yeah the disdain came through. Apparently what didn't get through to you was the troll and you bit the hook nicely and showed it with your reply to the author.
Some of you "northerners" come across as nothing but cheap punks. Cowards on keyboards.
Sure looks like you are already to rise for the South. You got the name calling down pat. I bet you even used a keyboard and the internet to send it didn't you. :rolleyes: Just like a keyboard warrior there.
Like I said, the war is over, chill out. Getting petty like that didn't do anything to him.
BTW I'm not a Northerner either.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Oh yeah the disdain came through. Apparently what didn't get through to you was the troll and you bit the hook nicely and showed it with your reply to the author.
Some of you "northerners" come across as nothing but cheap punks. Cowards on keyboards.
Sure looks like you are already to rise for the South. You got the name calling down pat. I bet you even used a keyboard and the internet to send it didn't you. :rolleyes: Just like a keyboard warrior there.
Like I said, the war is over, chill out. Getting petty like that didn't do anything to him.
BTW I'm not a Northerner either.
Yep, you got me pegged. Nothing but a wuss behind a keyboard here. Nothing slips past you.
twit
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Originally posted by lazs2
so red bottom... what did he do off court that was more important than being top tennis player.. that was so important that no one else did anything like it... so different and important that he deserved a statue?
lazs
Lil'Ass...learn to conduct your own research. You'll feel much better about yourself when you take learning into your own hands.
Google Arthur Ashe and educate yourself. Or ask your enabler to do it.
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Originally posted by storch
the point being there is no "south" per se. atlanta, full of new yorkers. jacksonville, full of new yorkers. nashville, full of new yorkers, charlotte, full of new yorkers. miami? ft lauderdale? it's an epidemic. we aren't even talking about other brands of northerners either. the thing is no matter how many times we tell'm that we don't care how you do it up north and that if they like the north so much we can give them directions to I-95. every year there seems to be more of them.
Yeah but they know if they get out into the areas around those "metropolitan" areas and start trying to live all yankee like...well lets just say that those of us from the REAL south will make them into southerners or send 'em back where they came from.
:D
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Originally posted by BlkKnit
Meet ya at Fredrickburg yankee boy :D ;)
Seriously, what is this country coming to? PC morons
i grew up a half hour drive from there & have sacked their quaterback.
they are fail as is ur yankee run training camp for nicuraguan narcopilots.
pwnt:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
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this thread will self-destruct in 10 seconds....
10
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guppy.. I don't think we are at odds on this. I completely understand how someone who is famous and a local boy would be a source of pride. The fact that he was worlds best at tennis is plenty of reason.
The statue shows him with a tennis racket. I am not into sports but can see how some people would take pride in that.
in the statue he has a tennis racket and no mention of his deeds is on it... just a hebrew quote.
I got no problem with any statue. Some are kinda contrived or silly tho.. or for the wrong reasons. Not my call. Like I said.. the guy was a local boy who made good in the tennis game.. It is good motive for a statue in that city... it would be silly in the most extreme way to have one of him in my city.
lazs
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Originally posted by wklink
Ummm.
We destroyed your armies, we burned your cities, we sunk your fleet, we completely changed your way of life and your economy.
What was your rank? :rofl
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i was a sniper in the war of yankee aggression, i was about to shoot gen grant when a scorpion bit me and we lost the war.
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Originally posted by john9001
i was a sniper in the war of yankee aggression, i was about to shoot gen grant when a scorpion bit me and we lost the war.
:aok
The "Big Guy" cometh. :D
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Originally posted by john9001
i was a sniper in the war of yankee aggression, i was about to shoot gen grant when a scorpion bit me and we lost the war.
you dummy you should have upped your P51 and called your dad to get his B17. well maybe you were a noob back then and weren't thinking clearly.