Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: henchman on February 21, 2007, 04:53:43 PM
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The other night a squadmate and I were flying together in the MA when we ran into an enemy con. My squadmate had a better angle and he engaged. When I had the chance, I dropped down into the fight (not helping because I compressed and hit the trees):mad: . Whatever happened after that I don't know. Next thing I know I am being accused of trying to steal a kill on channel 200. I'm not a stats guy (as you can tell by my score) , and neither is my squadmate.
My question is : What's more important, Kill stats or Teamwork?
My answer - Teamwork.
Thank you
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Kill stats won't clear your 6.
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and neither make you able to clear you own 6...
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Teamwork IMO....and only because it is fun.
I read in WW2 most kills occurred because the soon to be dead pilot never saw the enemy...they snuck right up and shot em. Having a partner was essential.
As far as kill stealing..unless the enemy plane is obviously mortally wounded, ie missing wings, tail, flopping around...shooting those is considered bad form just to add more bullets to the plane in hopes to get the kill.
If a plane is not mortally wounded, its anybodies kill to be had.
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I get far greater satisfaction from going into a fight with a wingie and both of us coming out of it, then I've ever gotten from landing kills.
Granted more often then not, I'm the bait and my wingie is doing the killing, but when you've been in a good brawl where you should have died, but because you know your wingie and vice versa, you end up the only ones still standing when it's over, there is nothing to beat that feeling in AH....at least for me.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Granted more often then not, I'm the bait and my wingie is doing the killing,
Yea unless I'm on your wing Dan.
Then somehow I become the bait.:lol
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Yea unless I'm on your wing Dan.
Then somehow I become the bait.:lol
Bronk
Ahh but that first time we winged in 38s is a perfect example. We both came out of there in one piece and the numbers were definately NOT in our favor.
And true to form I was in pieces, but you cleared my six any number of times and I do believe I picked a couple of you too :)
And I had a blast which is what it's all about:aok
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Ahh but that first time we winged in 38s is a perfect example. We both came out of there in one piece and the numbers were definately NOT in our favor.
And true to form I was in pieces, but you cleared my six any number of times and I do believe I picked a couple of you too :)
And I had a blast which is what it's all about:aok
Your not the only one that had a blast, yup what it's all about.
<>
Bronk
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if i see someone fighting a con and it looks like a fair fight i ask before i just go diving in for the most part, unless i see that the con is dead on a 6 and they are screaming for help. but teamwork is important.
i get a little angry if i am low on the deck having a good 1v1 and some guy comes in out of no where and just dives in and shoots even if im clearly winning the fight. atleast ask sometimes
im special...yayyyy..
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teamwork for me...
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Originally posted by henchman
The other night a squadmate and I were flying together in the MA when we ran into an enemy con. My squadmate had a better angle and he engaged. When I had the chance, I dropped down into the fight (not helping because I compressed and hit the trees):mad: . Whatever happened after that I don't know. Next thing I know I am being accused of trying to steal a kill on channel 200. I'm not a stats guy (as you can tell by my score) , and neither is my squadmate.
My question is : What's more important, Kill stats or Teamwork?
My answer - Teamwork.
Thank you
To get to the jest of what I was asking you on 200, Your squaddie jumped me and had the advantage the entire time we were fighting. I saw you coming in from 4.5 K away and when you got there, right as your squaddie was 600 out my 6 and closing, you jumped in guns blazing and augered! Don't take this as an insult when I ask you this, if you had hit me and killed me, would that be fair to your squaddie who had done all the work in getting me low and slow! When I was approached about what I said to you on 200, I barely remembered the conversation, meaning that it was small fries in a big tater scene! In other words, don't get upset about it, the question was asked simply to get you to ponder how you want to play this game! I personally would jump a squaddies arse if he jumped in and shot my victim after I had done all the work, but I have 5 years under my belt so finishing what I started means a little more to me. By the way, Kotrenin did get me PW'd but some spit came in and ganged me after you augered. At least your squaddie got the kill he deserved! At any rate, I am sorry if this exchange upset you, I understand that you are a new guy and you will decide over time how you want to play. I wish you the best of luck!
Mark:aok
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You know when you've got a compatible wingman. It gives you a unique confidence which makes you think less and fly better which in turn breeds more confidence etc.....
I do often go out on my own renegade runs but in the end..
Teamwork
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If you want a 1 v1 goto DA and hope noone butts in...
In the MA any red plane is a potential kill...because as you go flying by they can snapshot into you...or if they kill "the person who doesnt want help" then they will be free to doubleteam me....and i dont depend on anyone else's skill but mine...
the only thing i believe is a kill steal is if a plane is disabled (ie.. tail or rudders gone) and falling to the earth and someone chases it down blazing into it...
now if a plane is just on fire or missing a wing...then ill drop it...ive been kilt too many times by 5 minute flaming nikis and seen goons dropped by one wing planes...
sooo to sum it up....if you can kill someone...do it....
dont whine because i feel it is better to reduce the number of red planes as fast as possible....
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ahhhh Skyrock
okay to answer the question of what I'd do in that situation. I'd ask my countryman / squaddie if they wanted assistance. If they said no I'd go into a slow energy conserving turn around the fight and watch for bogies so my countryman could concentrate on the 1 V 1. Now if my countryman lost and you tried to engage me instead of landing it I'd.... well I'd prefer to say I'd kill you but more than likely I'd be kill number 2, 3, 4, whatever on that list for your sortie.
Got taken behind the woodshed for doing just the opposite about week 2 of my AH life ;) Don't remember who did it but he was nice and direct about it.
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Skyrock. I wasn't upset about the exchange. When you asked if I was trying to kill steal, I just wanted to let you know that it was a squadmate. On the way to engage you, I talked to Kotrenin and he never said for me not to get involved. I have seen way to many times someone on someones 6, and the next thing you know there is a reverse move, and BOOM!!! I was just helping out my squadman. I have been in many situations with Ko before, and we always try to help each other out when we can. we are new to this game, and I count on my squad to help me whenever they can. I'm not in this game to be the top ranked player, I'm on it to have fun. I hope to learn from every experience i get involved in. I was just thinking of the situation today and i thought of the idea of killstats or teamwork would be a good topic. Again I wasn't upset with the exchange, and hope to see you in the skys again.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
I get far greater satisfaction from going into a fight with a wingie and both of us coming out of it, then I've ever gotten from landing kills.
Granted more often then not, I'm the bait and my wingie is doing the killing,
they have you on the Easy bait Program too huh ? :D
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I've been in the same situation as henchman here, and what I've found works well is to dive in front of your squaddie, who will killshoot himself on you. Once he's removed from the picture, you are free to kill the bad guy, without the guilt of ruining a good 1 vs 1 or stealing a kill. It's just that easy.
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^:rofl I like that idea.
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I've been in the same situation as henchman here, and what I've found works well is to dive in front of your squaddie, who will killshoot himself on you. Once he's removed from the picture, you are free to kill the bad guy, without the guilt of ruining a good 1 vs 1 or stealing a kill. It's just that easy.
:rofl I think we've found a solution! :aok
Mark
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I've been in the same situation as henchman here, and what I've found works well is to dive in front of your squaddie, who will killshoot himself on you. Once he's removed from the picture, you are free to kill the bad guy, without the guilt of ruining a good 1 vs 1 or stealing a kill. It's just that easy.
you sir are a bad and evil man..
however you are a darn fine strategist and I respect that
:rofl
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I was flying a P47-D40 over a furball one night last week. I spotted a Spit (turned out to be a XVI) and went in after him. As I did another Bish flew in and took off half of one of his wings then zoomed up and out. As he did the Spit dove away from the fight in a controlled dive running for his field which was nearby. I stayed on my target and took him out.
Over range radio I hear "Nice kill, he's shot and going down and you steal the kill" or something to that effect.
I calmy explain that the guy had total control of his plane, that I had followed him for a while and was sure of it, and that he was not going down. I know this because I've got way to many hours flying Spits missing half of one or more wings (and even a few kills in that condition).
Anyway, that was the end of it but, I wish people knew more about the capabilities of a wounded plane before they started accusing you of things, especially kill-stealing.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
I personally would jump a squaddies arse if he jumped in and shot my victim after I had done all the work, Mark:aok
LOL that's half the fun of being in a squad. That and outright killstealing.
Naturally if it's not a squaddie I'll ask if he's ok and then butt out if he is... a squaddies victim is fair game w/ a "cherry" on top. If he can't kill him by the time I get there.... sweet!
Of course, I'll be on vox all the way in, telling him what's about to happen.( and trying not to laugh)
OTOH I flew w/ some guys a couple of weeks ago and one guy called out he was "in" on a plane(a niki). I was closer,closing faster, and about saddled so I ignored the guy and plowed the niki. I then got an earful of what a selfish player I am. It was funny.. I couldn't help but egg the guy on... he went kind of nuts. Lazer and I just laughed and laughed. I'm a bad man.
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If you always fly alone, and have never been in a squad, or atleast flew with a regular wingman, you are missing alot from the game. Keeping a bud alive is one of the most exciting parts of the game. Score? To me that means good guys 6, bad guys 0.
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I'd never flown with a squad before until recently. One of the first fights with the squad saw us trying to take a base, it was great fun.
Anyway, the guy who asked me to join and I were the last two left at the enemy field, which up'd a lot of cons.
We ended up being out-numbered 3-1 at least but with team-work we bagged 6 and both returned to base safely.
This was a situation that I did not expect to get out off intact and it goes to show how much fun working together is.
I definately do not steal squaddie's kills though, I always ask if they need assistance and I do this most of the time with country-men too
It's a game and all, but manners are important.
Ruining someone's fun to pad your score is a bit lame.
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Originally posted by Xasthur
I definately do not steal squaddie's kills though, I always ask if they need assistance and I do this most of the time with country-men too
It's a game and all, but manners are important.
Ruining someone's fun to pad your score is a bit lame.
When you're with a group of guys who are having fun and who do not care about score, killstealing is quite funny. If you are with a group of guys who care about kills/rank it wouldn't be funny, then again those guys wouldn't be as much fun, either.
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stats are more important. Score is everything in this game. If you are busy saving some sucky squaddies 6 all the time you wont have time to kill for yourself and never get your name on the front of the site. that being number 1 is all that matters.
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I have at times asked if someone was "alright" with that con before engaging...
However if its a furball or trying to uncap a base anything goes..
If a plane is able to fly under its own power its a valid target..
Have had many times I was closing on someones six having somewhat worked to get there (as im not all that skilled) to have a friendly plane, with more speed zoom past me and get the kill...
Sometimes it can frustrate you a bit but hey such is life..
Its all good and only a game :aok
P.S.:rofl :rofl :rofl MegaDud
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Understandable replies, but if a squaddie had been fighting the guy for 5 minutes, I am out! :aok
Mark
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Teamwork is most important in my opinion. Why don't you turn 200 off and try flying that way? I find it much more fun flying when I don't listen to the kids and grown babys fighting on 200
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Originally posted by rodak
Teamwork is most important in my opinion. Why don't you turn 200 off and try flying that way? I find it much more fun flying when I don't listen to the kids and grown babys fighting on 200
you are wrong
thanks MegaDud
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Originally posted by rodak
Teamwork is most important in my opinion. Why don't you turn 200 off and try flying that way? I find it much more fun flying when I don't listen to the kids and grown babys fighting on 200
I know this says Pipz, but it is Henchman....
The chat on 200 didn't bother me because I don't take what is said personal. There was no conflict between Skyrock and I. I just wanted the opinions of others on this topic. I sometimes enjoy reading the fights that go on between people as I am heading to the fight.:aok
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in the furball I will allow a squaddie one pass...as I tell em not to miss cause I'm gonna steal it. :D
Havin good bait...er... wingman around helps alot! Like Lippy.
P.S. funfights last night Steve and Corky.
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I'm pretty technical about this... when corkyjr falls past me with one wing and a smoking fan screaming follow meeeeeee.. I snap roll and try my best to beat him to the ground. Another thing that seems popular in our squad is AOS (Auger On Shuff) it is an art form in its own. This is accomplished by shear timing and skill... as I flare to land, several 38s auger at high speed right on my plane..... the closest gets a cookie... the most artistic gets 2 cookies. :aok
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I pride myself on not kill stealing but over about a two week period a while back I just couldn't resist stealing two kills from one of my squaddies. I don't know what came over me. Well, one was a legit steal and the other was while both my squaddie and his opponent were going down due to collision damage and to make it even better my squaddie and I were in JU87's and I just couldn't resist getting a kill in an 87.
Anyway, I gave them back by giving my squaddie a couple of freebies that I could have easily killed but let him come in to take them instead.
That type of give and take wouldn't happen if it weren't "all in the family".
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Most times it's hard to find a good fight in the MA so if ur squaddie or even countrymen for that matter are engaged 1v1 in a fight there is no problem helping him out if he ASK'S for it or you could ask him if he needs help. Just diving in unannounced is certainly NOT the thing to do.
Example=A few nights ago I was having yet another great fight with Geaux(registered trade mark of JG's) in his 38 and I was in a D-pony...Well the fight went on for a few minutes on the deck and I was lucky enough to get some hits on him. Then BNZ was flying over and asked me if i was "Ok" and I told him "yes, i'm good thanks for asking" I didn't know at the time if I was going to win or loose the fight but either way I wanted to finish it alone. Not less then 20 seconds later a guy who's name i will leave out dives in and picks Geaux and kills him. I did get the kill on him but I don't care about that since I didn't finish him off. So then, this guy on range says "sorry bucky but he was all over ya"...I replied "No he wasn't but......whatever".
Anyway, I would have to say TEAMWORK is the answer IMO and teamwork sometimes means using that great feature called 'vox' and finding out the situation before doing something that isn't wanted. I see countless idiots (scorepotatos) porking the heck out of a field that is soon to be taken and this is definately not TEAMWORK.
:aok
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Teamwork for me.
I love flying with my Squad. As XO of the group I fly alot of lead. Our CO and myself are seperated by some thousands of miles. That and other scheduling hurdles lends to myself and the CO only flying together a few times a week. When he is on I fly his wing. I can go all night on his wing and possibly never get guns on a badguy, but he knows his six is clear and that he has an alert and capable wingman watching out for him. I love it! I could care less about kills when I am flying wingie. Of course the other nights I'm usually first in, guns ablaze trying to kill as many red guys as I can.
Teamwork within a group of close friends is invaluable to me. I can not stress enough how the feeling of a close knit group who looks out for eachother over themselves outwieghs any individual glory one might find on their own. Some guys could care less I'm sure, but if I could offer any advise, if you have never flown with another who values teamwork and group results, I highly recommend it. Nothing is more gratifying than helping another out of a tough spot and making it home with the whole gruppe, and landing those kills as a team, for me atleast.
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Team work for me - it provides me a better opportunity to steal kills and increase my stats :D
asw
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Kills cannot be stolen, only missed.....:t
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I perfer the team work, but don't find much outside the squad as i did a few months ago. Their some guys i recognize that always work well with others then their are those that use you as bait. I find myself running into more of the latter as of late.
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In the 13th TAS the greatest squad achievement was to steal Rude's kill and have him killshooter himself on you.
I never managed it and I don't know if anyone ever did before I joined. I tried though.:aok
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SkyRock ,
As a fairly new "CrazyGang" memeber I have flown a bit with both Ko and Hench . Both are getting better at this .
I doubt that Hench wanted to steal anything , he just was trying his best to help his friend .
I have read closely what you have written and it seems like a reasonable question to ask from a vet as yourself .
Watching a newer player I see that "reading" the SA is more important and harder that just flying and shooting . That said given time I doubt much that it would have happened then as they would have been better "reading" what's around them .
I find both of these men to be nice guys and they seem to like and want to get better , alot better at this game . I believe they will be around a long time .
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Now as for me , I do love to steal Pipzs kills , and give him **** on the squad vox channel :) Why do you ask ? Why do this???? Cause I really do like him alot :eek: Donno why if I like some one I like kidding them so much but I do hehe .
be well
spro