Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: VERTEX on February 22, 2007, 03:49:52 PM
-
What do you guys think of the notion where the game prohibits you from bailing from an airplane in good working order. The airplane must be damaged to the point of no longer being airworthy, or must be stopped.
This might be a way of limiting the bomb and bail types.
Any thoughts??
-
What good does it do to bail after you drop bombs?
-
If they can't bail they will find the nearest tree and fly into it.
-
Originally posted by SteveBailey
What good does it do to bail after you drop bombs?
Other than upping another set to go on merrily porking.
No idea.
Bronk
-
Originally posted by VERTEX
What do you guys think of the notion where the game prohibits you from bailing from an airplane in good working order. The airplane must be damaged to the point of no longer being airworthy, or must be stopped.
This might be a way of limiting the bomb and bail types.
Any thoughts??
Are they that big of a factor that it's even worth worrying about?
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
Are they that big of a factor that it's even worth worrying about?
Not Really, but I've read a lot of whines about it and thought this might be a way to reduce it. Actually was more motivated by the idea that it would add some realism, because nobody in his right mind would bail from a working airplane at alt in real life.
I realize there will always be aspects of this game that are not real to life but I think the game improves with each small step closer to real life.
-
as slayer said, if they implement that. The pork and bail/augers will just crash into the ground or trees.
-
Originally posted by VERTEX
Not Really, but I've read a lot of whines about it and thought this might be a way to reduce it. Actually was more motivated by the idea that it would add some realism, because nobody in his right mind would bail from a working airplane at alt in real life.
I realize there will always be aspects of this game that are not real to life but I think the game improves with each small step closer to real life.
Actually, in particular towards the end of the war, when the training of Axis pilots was so poor, you'd find many instances where guys bailed out of perfectly good airplanes if they were in situations where they thought they'd had it, and preserving their life took precedent over staying with the plane.
Not even remotely using that as an excuse for it in AH cause I think bailing is silly. I just ride the wingless bird in, since I know I'm getting a new plane anyway :)
-
Originally posted by Estes
as slayer said, if they implement that. The pork and bail/augers will just crash into the ground or trees.
Yes, I guess that's true. If someone wants to be a tard they will find a way to do it no matter how much the game is altered to try and prevent it.
Thanks for the input guys and good flying.
-
Make it so they can't bail and you generate new whines from someone who needed to end flight for a mission and couldn't. There will Always be a whine.
Trying to solve "issues" like this with the intent to limit whines will not work. People whine, the best way to overcome them is to ignore them.
-
Ideally this will be handled by the perk ord system that was discussed a while ago. If you pay perks to go drop your bombs, and don't return to base safely, you lose the perks spent on the ord.
That'd make bomb & bail a more expensive proposition, although there might be a fair amount of complaints.
Another option I think worthwhile would be to put a delay in on taking ord after a death/bail/capture. Say 15-30m required before you can reup a plane with ord after a death/bail/capture. That'd significantly slow down the suicide bomb runs on CV's as well.
-
Kill them before they drop.
-
Originally posted by cbizkit
Ideally this will be handled by the perk ord system that was discussed a while ago. If you pay perks to go drop your bombs, and don't return to base safely, you lose the perks spent on the ord.
That'd make bomb & bail a more expensive proposition, although there might be a fair amount of complaints.
Another option I think worthwhile would be to put a delay in on taking ord after a death/bail/capture. Say 15-30m required before you can reup a plane with ord after a death/bail/capture. That'd significantly slow down the suicide bomb runs on CV's as well.
I like this idea, implement it along with the "Can't bail out of a perfectly good airplane" idea and you have quite a system running. By the way, I think this should be in the Wishlist (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=287) Forum.:aok
-
This would accomplish nothing.
-
Frag a buddy, take damage, and bail. Or lower gear, then dive and damage gear, then bail.
You can't stop dweebs from being dweebs.
Gunner
-
Originally posted by cbizkit
Ideally this will be handled by the perk ord system that was discussed a while ago. If you pay perks to go drop your bombs, and don't return to base safely, you lose the perks spent on the ord.
That'd make bomb & bail a more expensive proposition, although there might be a fair amount of complaints.
Another option I think worthwhile would be to put a delay in on taking ord after a death/bail/capture. Say 15-30m required before you can reup a plane with ord after a death/bail/capture. That'd significantly slow down the suicide bomb runs on CV's as well.
* First, all you might end up doing is eventually cut the bomber population to almost nothing; while the text buffer would be filled with people requesting OTHER people to bring ord to pork fields, deack towns and fields, kill hangars, kill towns, kill GV's, and kill the CV..... worse even than calls for goon suicide runs. Eveyone would want someone else to do it for them.
*Bombers rarely return to base safely. So it would almost always cost points.... eventually the bank runs out.
* Part of that is bomb and bail, since perks mean nothing to most buff drivers, Arado not a great ride for much, and it's quicker to get back into the air.
* Bombers in game often operate at mid to low level and get shot up and shot down much of the time. Many buff drivers do not have the patience to climb to typical operating altitudes any more that most fighter pilots in game do.
* will this perk ord system cover ALL planes, or just level bombers? If only bombers, you will just see suicidal JABO runs replacing bomb and bail. P-38 and P-47 "buzzbombs".
-
Originally posted by VERTEX
What do you guys think of the notion where the game prohibits you from bailing from an airplane in good working order. The airplane must be damaged to the point of no longer being airworthy, or must be stopped.
This might be a way of limiting the bomb and bail types.
Any thoughts??
YES!
I am so tired of upping my A8 to intercept buffs only to have them bail when i get to 2k away. It takes a long time to get up to 15-20k in that plane and then chase them the distance they have covered.
-
Originally posted by cbizkit
Ideally this will be handled by the perk ord system that was discussed a while ago. If you pay perks to go drop your bombs, and don't return to base safely, you lose the perks spent on the ord.
that is NOT what perk ord is about....
perk ord is about having the F4u1 with cannons (f4u1c)
perk ord is about having 37mm cannons on a stuka
perk ord is not about perking bombs.
-
i would rather have it to lose some perks when bailing
-
Originally posted by SteveBailey
What good does it do to bail after you drop bombs?
It's a favorite ploy for the Milkrunners ... especially in MW and I would imagine EW.
They take Lancs or JU-88s to a VH ... level the hangers in one pass, come back around for the ack.
They auger and then spawn an M3 from another VH or field and viola ... in a matter of 5 minutes they have the capture.
L337n335 at it finest.
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
It's a favorite ploy for the Milkrunners ... especially in MW and I would imagine EW.
They take Lancs or JU-88s to a VH ... level the hangers in one pass, come back around for the ack.
They auger and then spawn an M3 from another VH or field and viola ... in a matter of 5 minutes they have the capture.
L337n335 at it finest.
it takes years to learn those sort of skillz;)
-
I bail all the time, but it used to be nearly always when I shot down.
A few weeks ago, I finally bailed out of a good plane and I've done it occasionally since.
Just today I bailed with no problems in sight: I was heading to an enemy base in my Nikki and bombs. About the time I'm halfway there, the announce comes up that the field was captured. The closest other enemy field was too far away to reroute and I didn't want to take the time to hassle flying all the way back to land.
I bailed. Hate to do that but there weren't any points to lose as I hadn't done anything at that point anyway.
-
Originally posted by xtyger
I bail all the time, but it used to be nearly always when I shot down.
A few weeks ago, I finally bailed out of a good plane and I've done it occasionally since.
Just today I bailed with no problems in sight: I was heading to an enemy base in my Nikki and bombs. About the time I'm halfway there, the announce comes up that the field was captured. The closest other enemy field was too far away to reroute and I didn't want to take the time to hassle flying all the way back to land.
I bailed. Hate to do that but there weren't any points
to lose as I hadn't done anything at that point anyway.
That situation is not a problem. Its when guys bail because they see enemy comming and dont have the skills or the will to fight back so they bail rather than risk getting their handle killed. These fellas would fly back and land if nobody was around to cause them any slight hassle.
-
Originally posted by tedrbr
* First, all you might end up doing is eventually cut the bomber population to almost nothing; while the text buffer would be filled with people requesting OTHER people to bring ord to pork fields, deack towns and fields, kill hangars, kill towns, kill GV's, and kill the CV..... worse even than calls for goon suicide runs. Eveyone would want someone else to do it for them.
Whines don't factor into the equation of game balance. The primary balance issue is a human resource one, if you bomb and immediately bail you're skipping the time it takes to RTB safely. If someone requests additional assistance to continue bombing this is fine because it's using another resource which could be allocated somewhere else, be it a fighter or a bomber on another target etc.
*Bombers rarely return to base safely. So it would almost always cost points.... eventually the bank runs out.
That's really the fault of the pilot in most cases. If theres no pentalty to death bombers really only need to concern themselves with survival to the point they drop their bombs. If you take more time to setup an escort, get more alt, use diversionary tactics or simply milkrun the odds of survival would increase dramatically. And if the perk system is balanced properly, then getting ords on target and surviving would mean you get +perks whereas bombing & bailing would lead to a degree of -perks. Very similar to what we have in fighters, vehicles etc now except it applies to heavy ordinance use.
* Part of that is bomb and bail, since perks mean nothing to most buff drivers, Arado not a great ride for much, and it's quicker to get back into the air.
By adding a risk/reward system to this it would require bomber pilots to care.
* Bombers in game often operate at mid to low level and get shot up and shot down much of the time. Many buff drivers do not have the patience to climb to typical operating altitudes any more that most fighter pilots in game do.
Thats really their choice of tactics. You'll find that most fighter pilots when in perk rides are far more patient and paranoid about losing their rides since there is a risk involved. Same thing would apply to the perk ord system.
* will this perk ord system cover ALL planes, or just level bombers? If only bombers, you will just see suicidal JABO runs replacing bomb and bail. P-38 and P-47 "buzzbombs".
Can't speak for HTC but I think it'd probably be for certain load sizes that'd be dependant on the aircraft. For example I would expect an SBD with a full loadout to have a cost. Whereas a set of lancs with cookies and 2 drones would have a cost associated. Not that I'm suggesting that bomber pilots be screwed entirely, I'd think we'd need to be able to support a free setup for bombers. Maybe a full load with no drones is free? Or 1/2 load with drones is free. Really a balance issue that would have to be reviewed & tweaked as part of an implementation phase I would think.
I'm mostly looking at this from the perspective of not having any sort of strategic logistics in place to limit the amount of ords available at any particular base. Since there isn't any logic in place to say A29 for example has 250 1000lb bombs remaining, everything is based on human and time resources. So unless HTC has in mind to implement a system such as supplying actual logistics across zones I'd think using the perk system is probably the best fit for providing risk/reward to help prevent gaming the strat system.
-
Originally posted by Anyone
that is NOT what perk ord is about....
perk ord is about having the F4u1 with cannons (f4u1c)
perk ord is about having 37mm cannons on a stuka
perk ord is not about perking bombs.
If you review the original perk ord thread, you'll see that I was one of the first people to say exactly what you just said there. However that does not necessarily mean we're right, or that it can't be extended to include other functions.
-
Back in the day you used to be able to bail from a fighter to avoid giving an opponent the kill. Sometimes when I was in trouble and didn't see a way out I'd use this to keep from giving the other guy a kill simply because I could. I'd get a bail, he got nothing (I think this was in AW. I can't remember if it was ever this was in AH). Then they instituted proxie kills and that solved that problem. I'd rather not award a kill to someone without fighting for it.
On many occasions I've taken an attack plane to a VB, destroyed the hangers and ack, bailed, then grabbed a C-47 and flown back to take the base. This was relatively easy in AH I when there was a single, camofauge net hanger but I've also done it with the current VB configuration although with much more difficulty as you need to take down the 3rd hanger with mostly machine guns then kill the ack with what remains and timing is critical. I think the current configuration was an attempt to stop this but it's still possible to do. I haven't done this in at least a couple of years now as the difficulty increased and my scores became more important to me than they used to be.
That brings us to today, when bombers fly in, hit a target, bail and re-up to go do more damage or to attempt a capture. You can't blame them for doing this if it's possible to do. It's simply players exploiting an advantage that they've found in the game.
There's another one too. Bailing from a vehicle as you hear the bombs coming down at you. This is an exploit I still use regularily to land kills while frustrating my opponent who just wasted his bomb with no result. It's also happened to me the other way, dropping my bomb to see the guy ef succesfully and from that end it's frustrating as h*** but I can't blame him for using this. Even though it would work against me in a big way, this is an exploit I'd like to see eliminated somehow but I can't imagine how it could be accomplished.
Anyway, players have always found ways to exploit the game and probably always will. As one exploit gets closed new ones develop. It doesn't seem like something to get too worried about. For each bomber pilot that bails and gets three captures, a bunch more move up the rankings.
-
I think that there are more important things to worry about like bs collision.
-
Originally posted by Pawz
I think that there are more important things to worry about like bs collision.
How exactly is this constructive to any type of solution? It doesn't provide value to what we're discussing in this thread, nor does it provide any value to providing a better collision model. It is rather easy to post a new thread with an idea so others can then discuss the merits of your concept.
-
Originally posted by duh
i would rather have it to lose some perks when bailing
Its already that way.
You dont get as many perks when you bail or ditch or get shot down as when you land