Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: aerosaber on February 23, 2007, 08:52:11 AM
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OK,just a note about the HO. I really dont understand the big HO thing in Aces. The head-on attack is a common air combat move, or was in the piston era. I try to avoid them myself as I fly the zeke most of the time.
If this is a combat simulation, then the HO is part of the game. If you get killed in a head-on, just go get another airplane and try again. Much better deal than the real pilots got. Don't start flaming some guy on 200.
And again, if this is a combat simulation, its not jousting, or playing nice; Its about killing the other guy before he kills you.
Just Google head-on and dogfight. You will find pilots have been doing it since they put guns on airplanes.
Just my 2 cents
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Head-On Attacks er....HO's show that a player either takes little effort if any to acquire a kill. When people see others opening up with the guns at distances ranging from 2k out to 800 out, then it is a tell-tell sign that this is a NOOB they are about to fight, for the most part.
Some hate them, some prefer to do them......who really cares.....
if you are hear to justify why you think it is ok to use them then you go boy
but you are only hurting yourself in not learning how to gain an angles advantage to acquire a more appropriate guns solution........
this is not WWII, this is a combat flight sim ( er a game ).....so anything goes, anytime of the day
but people are judged by how they fly and play the game, if you want to take the easy way out and HO/Ram for not being able to evade a Nose to Nose merge (it is a 50/50 chance), because you trying to HO.then 9 times out of 10 people will flame you on ch200.... they always have and they always will.......
people that have played these sims for years on end gain a reputation, some good , some bad...it is up to you what type of reputation you want to be thought of or given by your online friends/foe in the game, then again you might don't care either way.......
but the way you posted this thread, looks like you trying to justify why you HO.......
the same can be said for how a player post topics or respond to threads on the AH BBS as well......
edit: it is not just in Aces High, people have the same thoughts about it in just about every flight sim you can play online.......my 2 cents worth
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Don't worry about what everyone else says or does, aero. It's a game, not a test of your cartoon manhood. Try to have some fun, and ignore the killjoys.
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I only participate in a head on when I have no choice. As I said, I normally fly the zero, not a real HO machine.
I just found it strange that this practice is so dissed. Not defending myself, no need, just conversation.
I get the HO as much as anyone else. I usually lose, but dont start sending nastygrams to the guy who killed me.
The whole topic gets everyones panties in a bunch, I find it amusing...lol.
I've flow in aces over 2 years, with a one year break between. I think I'm an honorable pilot. The problem is I'm also a military history nut, so the two collide on occasion.
This discussion was offered in that context, which someone misunderstood.
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OMG, another Ho thread.
The only people who complain about it are those who get shot down by a head on attack. Otherwise, its "A great Shot" "Awesome Kill" "Ownage"...
It boils down to what I tell every pilot in my gruppe.
"Why would you engage in an attack that leaves you with at best, a 50% chance of coming through it??" You are allowing the enemy a gun solution, banking that your rounds will hit first...pretty stupid." Try to avoid the head on unless you know you can win it, and that is seldom. A good example is when someone flying straight at you opens up with all guns outside of 1K away. When that happens it a sure sign of noobage, so simply rudder a bit out of the line of enemy rounds, then rudder back, kill the idjut and fly on looking for a more challanging engagement.
Edit: cold fingers.
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my apologys for misreading then, aero
I threw out my opinion as most look at it, I myself don't care either way.
If I am not having fun, I log off, If I get HOed, I very seldom say anything ( sometimes in KOTH on 1st intial merge, sometimes in Game when dogfight 1 vs 3 or 4 opponents , then a 4th or 5th comes barrelling in guns a blazing)
the PM nastygrams is beginning to look like an epidemic lately, funny thing is only PM's I usually get are of good nature.
when you mentioned google search in your 1st post, it did look like you was trying to give reason why it is or isn't ok...... that is what led me to assume ( and we know, assuming is the mother of all F ups )
as hub posted, don't worry or give much thought to what others think, just worry about how long you'll get to fly before the wife-ack starts hitting you to mow the lawn
:D
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You can probably imagine this topic has been discussed ad nauseum and there are as many opinions as..well...you know. There are also many many different circumstances which head on encounters occur.
For the most part, I am of the opinion that it takes 'two to tango'..that is, two guys are playing chicken and niether wants to give...then the 200 is filled with the looser calling winner ho'tard, and winner claiming well placed snap shot (lol)
I think that if you can avoid a HO shot, its in your own interest to do so. When I go into a HO situation, I put my odds at 50/50 coming out alive and 99/100 at being damaged.
Other times, like in a furball, your turning and wha-la, there is someone right on your nose coming at u. I will fire for all I am worth. Or, in 'gamey' situations, where a field is completely capped and I up an IL2, I will on purpose try to engage in HO's...if they are dumb enough to go nose on to a low E plane, hahaha.
My suggestion without writting a paper, just have fun. If someone on 200 starts writting this or that, just write back 'LOL' or 'LMAO'. It shows you either don't care or think 'their' opinion is laughable....or turn off 200.
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I head on attacked an LA yesterday.
My p51d his LA both looking at each other. I could see in zoom that he was planning on rolling out of the way so i took the initiative and went straight at him guns blazing.
Most would call that a HO shot but it wasnt I anticipated what he was up too and gambled that he wasnt going to pull into me at the last second.
Such a fine line between an actual "chicken" type HO and a slight off angle shot.
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Hey its cool. I figured it was a standard reply. And those wives do get nasty about this game.
Salute Sir!
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If another player flys straight at me he's going to get HO'd. Period.
Why? Because I expect he's coming straight at me to try to do the same.
And I will win 80-90% of the time. Why? My convergences are all set to D650 so I can open up at 1K, kill the dweeb and break before his D250 settings have a chance to touch me.
I tried to avoid HO's for 2-3 months. 80% of all players tried to HO me (only about 5% successfully) and I just got sick of it so, they get what they deserve.
If I see someone turning for the merge (all you experienced guys know what it looks like) I will never HO but go for the fair fight on the cold merge as I know thats what they are setting up for too.
The only caveot to that is if I am in a position where I am outnumbered, or in the midst of a furball, then anything goes to stay alive.
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Originally posted by Bruv119
I head on attacked an LA yesterday.
went straight at him guns blazing.
HO
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The best threads are the ones that mention the show "Dogfights" and therefore, ARE GOSPEL!
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No steve I dont think you are getting my point.
a Head on would have been both of us looking for a shot. I looked for it because I could see him intending to move out of the way. At the point when I was firing his guns werent pointed at me and his plane wasn't also.
I was just saying how many people would have called my attack a HO but it wasnt. If he had intended to HO I would have moved. My definition of a HO is when both parties are lined up pointing and shooting at one another resulting in a collision or death.
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^ totally fair game you bloody british hodard. especially baldeagle, purposely setting his convergence farther away and shooting long distance. is there no shame, no humanity?
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Originally posted by DREDger
^ totally fair game you bloody british hodard. especially baldeagle, purposely setting his convergence farther away and shooting long distance. is there no shame, no humanity?
D650 is just my preferred convergence setting all-around. It's also particularily good for buff hunting and killing runners and means I have to lead less in a turn fight as my guns are pointed up somewhat, but, since they are my preferred settings then I'll use them to my advantage to kill a HO dweeb too.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
D650 is just my preferred convergence setting all-around. It's also particularily good for buff hunting and killing runners and means I have to lead less in a turn fight as my guns are pointed up somewhat, but, since they are my preferred settings then I'll use them to my advantage to kill a HO dweeb too.
Apparently it takes a HOdweeb to kill a HOdweeb. :rofl
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Originally posted by Bruv119
No steve I dont think you are getting my point.
a Head on would have been both of us looking for a shot. I looked for it because I could see him intending to move out of the way. At the point when I was firing his guns werent pointed at me and his plane wasn't also.
I was just saying how many people would have called my attack a HO but it wasnt. If he had intended to HO I would have moved. My definition of a HO is when both parties are lined up pointing and shooting at one another resulting in a collision or death.
In short, he had to fire at you head-on or give you an advantage. That's every bit as bad as a head-on pass, and it's so similar that you'll have to excuse people for using the term. A head-on's a head-on even if one guy doesn't fire. The point is that both aircraft are facing each other and at least one is firing.
The reason people get ticked off by a head-on is that it throws flying skill out the window. A player can be a great shot but the worst pilot in the world, and he will still win. It's kind of like fighting bombers; no amount of skill will save you if the other guy's a great shot.
I say, if you want gunnery to determine who's going to win, play Counterstrike. As for me, I like flying skill to be the primary determination of the outcome of a fight (though obviously gunnery is nessessary also).
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Gentlemen,
I'm so confused:confused:
HOs happen. I try to avoid them but if someone comes at me a'guns a blazing then I'm gonna open up also:eek:
Which is not too smart!!
:o
I also still attack bombers from their Six.
I'm trying to change but I'm so impatient and my gameplay can be interrupted at any time. This could be a reason why people HO. they just don't have the time for a furball.
Cheers,
gusman44
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Originally posted by Bruv119
No steve I dont think you are getting my point.
. My definition of a HO is when both parties are lined up pointing and shooting at one another resulting in a collision or death.
Your definition is wrong. It takes two to merge, one to make it a HO.
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I get a big smile on my face when I'm in a 110 and i see a zeke heading in for the HO. I learned real quick when I first started playing Aces High to never head on a 110. :D
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Why would you want to put yourself infront of your enemy's guns on purpose?? (i.e. Head On)
A pretty big chunk of the players in AH are terrible pilots. Why would you give a terrible pilot a decent chance at killing you? If not killing then damaging you so the next guy can kill you easier.
I really, REALLY never understood that mentality.
Sure head on attacks were used in WW2. If you were in a heavily armored plane, attacking a plane that isn't, or had very weak weapons up front (certain buffs etc) I can see where you would want a head on. You had great odd's of winning.
BUT you don't get that in AH. 110g2 vs. a Hurri1 in a HO, that Hurri pilot has a good chance of givin' ya' a pw and ending your flight quick. Why give your opponent even a slight to good chance of killing/damaging you?
This isn't WW2, and outside of those aforementioned limitied situations, pilot's in WW2 would NOT put themself infront of the enemies guns (duh!).
Kinda the whole point of ACM and dogfighting is to AVOID your nme's guns, while getting yours on them.
(At least I always thought that was how it worked. Maybe I missed that day in class where they covered "Why it's ok for you to position yourself so your enemies bullets can hit you")
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
The point is that both aircraft are facing each other and at least one is firing.
My point was that we werent directly facing each other at the point of me firing. Therefore it being an angled shot and not head on in the front quarter yes, but no chance of me colliding.
That for me is as good as a rear six shot. They can't shoot me I kill.
Steve you obviously still dont get it. 99% of the time I'm avoiding Ho's but this guy tried evading but did it way too early and invited me to have a go.
If someone does a lazy move right infront of your guns i'm sure you would go past and not fire wasting precious time, energy and SA.
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Most people think that because you fire from in front of them its a ho
Some dont take into account firing from an angle either below or above or slightly to the side of them even though you are in front of them is not a HO!!!
Had this happen numerous times where I have fired from such angles and been called a HO for it..
Having said that I will HO if need be, not my favorite tactic but I will do so depending on the situation as I see it and will not regret doing same.
As far as channel 200 goes I never used to have it on but theres some priceless stuff that goes on there and is worth having on... I find it very amusing most of the time..Some stuff gets a little out of hand but mostly is rather funny...
The ho whines can be hysterical and are just as much fun as the cherrypicker whines... and By the way I have been picked and hoed and vulched by players of a significantly higher level of skill than me so face it, it is part of the game and after all who cares --- just have fun.
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the head on pass, either avoid it or do some manuvers, dive dwn under nme con or pull up to reverse, i have no problem in HO, il2s eats:) seriously you put urself in ho, if you follow thr w/ a 2k run headlong into each other. always 2 steps ahead, my 2cents worth
:
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Up until a week or two ago i did what i could to avoid them and often at the expence of a salvo to the belly or canopy on my plane when i turned away.
Now i really dont give a damn anymore and if i see someone comming straight at my A8 i will let the 30mm do the whining for me. :)
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
Head-On Attacks er....HO's show that a player either takes little effort if any to acquire a kill.
but you are only hurting yourself in not learning how to gain an angles advantage to acquire a more appropriate guns solution........
this is not WWII, this is a combat flight sim ( err a game)
people are judged by how they fly and play the game
:aok
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Your definition is wrong. It takes two to merge, one to make it a HO.
Dmn, I completely agree with Steve!
:aok
Mark
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Just saying...
Play the game however you want, for me when I was say 10 or 11 and we used to play airplanes, we would go zooommm and run the airplanes head on into each other. Later on when I started playing Air Combat Sims I learned all the other things that there are that make the game more challenging and far more interesting, in short I learned ACM. ACM was by far the more intersting reading of aviation history. The great stories of turning and twisting in the skys above to kill your enemy or I flew at him and shot.
You choose.
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Hos are not a big deal and usually easy to avoid when you are early on in the fight.
Hos that are hard to avoid are when you are fighting 5 v 1 the hard way (your the 1) and one of the 5 morons takes the ho shot. This sucks for two reasons.
1) It sucks for the other guys you are fighting with, because here they are in a great fight and someone takes the cheap kill because even with 4 other guys they still cant get behind you.
2) It sucks for the 1 guy because here you are in a great fight, you have avoided 5 guys repeatedly and everyone is on the edge of their seats locked in great fight only to be ruined by a cheap lameO kill.
Both the above contribute to suckarse game play and that is why people that Ho are just that suckarse.
If you have to ho it just means you are not good enough to fight for a better shot. So every time you (you meaning people that Ho) take a ho shot you are screaming to the other guy, "I SUCK!" :aok
Personally Hos are part of the game and on the rare occasion a Ho moron kills me, I just look at the name and think, "There's another suckarse noob." :aok
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Your definition is wrong. It takes two to merge, one to make it a HO.
:aok
Happened last night in the LW Crayon arena...
Ganged by the Rooks... Uppin from a moderately capped field and trying to get alt... LA7's P47's PonyD's you name it.. everything was there..Early on I could've pulled up and gone for a number of HO's , but decided to nose down and apply rudder... Too late... here they come Head On Guns a blazin and 3 PW 's later I abandon the nice guy approach.. Only to get called on it on ch 200.
I will say this.. It takes a split second to decide whether or not to go for the HO, and in that split second when your trying to decide whether the ride in front of you in Red is a class act or not and will merge with grace.. His guns just open up... Its a split second to late.
Personally I like the feeling of getting kills when I'm on your 6..It's much more rewarding, and shows that I may have learned a few things in this game from the likes of SkyRock... Creton.. LippyCH et all..
It seems as if some of the "furball's" have actually turned into Ho fests.
I'm also enjoying playing later at night when all the kiddies have gone to bed. You can find some good sticks on at that time of night.
just my 2 cents
4XTCH
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It takes two to make a HO go ri-hite....
Woot, ya, woot, ya, woot, ya, woot, ya
It takes two to make it atta site..
Woot, ya, woot, ya, woot, ya, woot, ya
(to the tune of Rob Base: It takes two)
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Originally posted by Bruv119
Steve you obviously still dont get it.
sure I do. The La7 tried to avoid the HO and you didn't. You Ho'd.
Umm in case you forgot, here's the first line of your original post:
I head on attacked an LA yesterday
You already admitted you HO'd. Why are you tying to now deny it?
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I will say this.. It takes a split second to decide whether or not to go for the HO, and in that split second when your trying to decide whether the ride in front of you in Red is a class act or not and will merge with grace.. His guns just open up... Its a split second to late.
Yep I agree with that, but I will add one thing. When you don't have to decide anything because you have risen above the will I ho or not decision, then there are no split seconds where you will be caught, early on in the fight anyway.
Furballs have always been a sort of ho fest, since so many have not actually attuned their SA to be able to do anything else but scream through and ho. What minimizes the HO impact tho, is that there are usually so many planes, by nature of a furball, that these noobs cant focus on just one so you are usually lost in the noise and avoiding their noobish ho is pretty easy.
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lets say i meet a Spit5 or 16, co-alt and co-E and im in a 190a8. I will try some moves, but once i work out how good the pilot is, i might have to turn to HO's, and if the spit flyer wants to HO quad 20mm cannons then so be it.
the only issue i have with HO's is because its not my FIRST method of fighting, its something i aint very good at and often die all the time.... where as most newbies are well trained at HO's.......... if you know what i mean ;)
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I head on attacked an LA yesterday.
My p51d his LA both looking at each other. I could see in zoom that he was planning on rolling out of the way so i took the initiative and went straight at him guns blazing.
Most would call that a HO shot but it wasnt I anticipated what he was up too and gambled that he wasnt going to pull into me at the last second.
Such a fine line between an actual "chicken" type HO and a slight off angle shot.
Sorry you can plan a HO and zoom in and out all day long reading the other guy, but what you described is still a ho.
You want a litmus test, here you go...
Could you have made that engagement an actual fight and utilized actual ACM against this foe instead of taking the Ho shot??
If the answer is yes and you chose to shoot a guy in the face rather than earn a well fought, more fun for everyone, arse shot then you are a skilless ho dweeb. :aok.
The good news is, if you don't want to be a skilless ho dweeb you always have the next engagement to try and change it.
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lets say i meet a Spit5 or 16, co-alt and co-E and im in a 190a8. I will try some moves, but once i work out how good the pilot is, i might have to turn to HO's, and if the spit flyer wants to HO quad 20mm cannons then so be it.
This is all well and fine, but it just proves my point. You were not good enough to get anything but a Ho shot so you took it. What I do in this situation, is disengage and try to use my planes advantages to re-engage and make it a decent fight. By doing so you make the fight more fun for both of you, if you win it is that much more rewarding. By sticking it out you may also have actually learned something about Air Combat, and if you died, well the good thing is you get to re-up painlessly. :aok
Lets face it we all know who the good sticks are in this game and Hoing is usually not their first, second or even 5th option. Hoing is a move of desperation as you have shown.
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Sigh.
You not read my last post?
The difference was that I intentionally went for the shot because I knew he wasnt looking for a HO by watching very carefully the aspect of his plane in the distance. If he was going to go for it I would have moved and killed him in a different way.
The kill was a front quarter deflection shot and therefore not a HO from my perspective. If people do lazy evasives infront of my guns I will kill them.
Now don't be so downright self assured in your opinion when you don't know what the hell i was looking at. I replied to the thread to point out that HO's are very large generalisations and cheap excuses to explain why you just got shot down. The fact that another Bish LA7 driver didnt even get to live past the merge can't be a bad thing.
Enough from me on this subject.
Ok maybe I should have said I killed an LA7 the other day.
Such a fine line between an actual "chicken" type HO and a slight off angle shot.
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Originally posted by mars01
This is all well and fine, but it just proves my point. You were not good enough to get anything but a Ho shot so you took it. What I do in this situation, is disengage......
but then i will be called a runner.....
.....so i cant "win" either way. lol
and anyway, the HO would be final solution. if the Spit is starting to get itself hooked on my rear, but just so happens falls into my gunsite during a bottom of a loop ill take the shot.
If i was in a top turn fighter type plane i would never feel the need to HO.....but i dont fly easy planes (apart from nik/la7 for quick defence missions)
i think the reason for this sort of moan is the HO on first pass players..... those REALLY annoy me.
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but then i will be called a runner.....
.....so i cant "win" either way. lol
and anyway, the HO would be final solution. if the Spit is starting to get itself hooked on my rear, but just so happens falls into my gunsite during a bottom of a loop ill take the shot.
No I didn't say disengage and run for a sector, there is a big difference in
breaking a scissors or circle of death to re-initiate the fight then running.
If a spit is getting itself hooked on your arse, then yes you will take the desperation shot, that is understood. What that tells me though is that you can't tell when you are in a scissors too long, before it's too late otherwise you would have understood my last post and you would not have been in a position where you had to go for the desperation ho shot.
If i was in a top turn fighter type plane i would never feel the need to HO.....but i dont fly easy planes (apart from nik/la7 for quick defence missions)
That is such a cop out, "I am to good to fly so and so a plane cause I think they are too easy..." But you will use easy mode desperation tactics like a ho rather than take your medicine like a man.
I am sorry there are no easy mode planes, just easy mode pilots. :aok
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Burv I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but what you described was a ho so I called it that.
Personally if I am going head to head, in a 3 or less v 1 the hard way, I always cold merge anyway. But then I am looking for a challenging fight rather than the easy kill.
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OK, let's try to get some reasonable explaination for HOs.
First, there's no way in heck I'm going to give you my 6 and you aren't going to give me yours. I'm going to TRY to get on your 6 any way I can and you're going to try to get on mine. What you can and usually will wind up with are 2 fighters making head to head passes. At some point one or the other will either get the deflection shot and be accused of HOing, or both will shoot in the true HO and one or both will die. Either way, someone is going to scream HO.
Simply put, if I don't know who you are and you're coming straight at me I'm not going to wait to see if you shoot first. If I know who it is and I know they won't take the shot I'll merge and go from there. Even then, at times the deflection shot get's accusations of HOing.
So, put it to rest. It happens, it always will happen. Time to move on.
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First, there's no way in heck I'm going to give you my 6 and you aren't going to give me yours. I'm going to TRY to get on your 6 any way I can and you're going to try to get on mine. What you can and usually will wind up with are 2 fighters making head to head passes. At some point one or the other will either get the deflection shot and be accused of HOing, or both will shoot in the true HO and one or both will die. Either way, someone is going to scream HO.
Like you said, not always true, but no excuse to start hoing.
I was in an incredible Zeke v SpitVIII(me) fight where we were locked in a canopy to canopy rolling scissors at MCA for what seemed like 20 mins and was probably a good 6 to 8 mins. Both of us would pass just out of each others guns and both of us knew any incorrect move was sure death. It came down to who made the first mistake.
Simply put, if I don't know who you are and you're coming straight at me I'm not going to wait to see if you shoot first. If I know who it is and I know they won't take the shot I'll merge and go from there. Even then, at times the deflection shot get's accusations of HOing.
Still no excuse to start hoing, if they light up their guns, then I know they are less skilled or a noob, if they don't light up then I know I have a decent fight about to start.
So, put it to rest. It happens, it always will happen. Time to move on.
Why do we need to move on. We are having a civil discussion about this, who is holding the gun to your head making you read it??
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The kill was a front quarter deflection shot and therefore not a HO from my perspective. If people do lazy evasives infront of my guns I will kill them.
95% of all "Head On's" aren't. It's just that simple, even in a furball/gangbang often its a question of getting your nose around 1st. I die (like all of us) trying to "avoid" the HO....the reality is I made a split 2nd decision I wasn't capable of getting to guns 1st....then got tagged trying to avoid the front aspect shot.
Sure I'll whine a bit....but that doesn't change the reality. If your not gonna "clear leather" 1st you can either hope the other guy misses or dive for the dirt. If your popped on a true merge you simply screwed the pooch...2 hours with any trainer will give you all you need to convert a "HO noob" to a statistic 99% of the time. But realize that if you fly "lazy" a seasoned vet will pull lead and plant you with the daisy's....after all angles are angles :aok
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Originally posted by mars01
Hos are not a big deal and usually easy to avoid when you are early on in the fight.
Hos that are hard to avoid are when you are fighting 5 v 1 the hard way (your the 1) and one of the 5 morons takes the ho shot. This sucks for two reasons.
1) It sucks for the other guys you are fighting with, because here they are in a great fight and someone takes the cheap kill because even with 4 other guys they still cant get behind you.
2) It sucks for the 1 guy because here you are in a great fight, you have avoided 5 guys repeatedly and everyone is on the edge of their seats locked in great fight only to be ruined by a cheap lameO kill.
Both the above contribute to suckarse game play and that is why people that Ho are just that suckarse.
If you have to ho it just means you are not good enough to fight for a better shot. So every time you (you meaning people that Ho) take a ho shot you are screaming to the other guy, "I SUCK!" :aok
Personally Hos are part of the game and on the rare occasion a Ho moron kills me, I just look at the name and think, "There's another suckarse noob." :aok
Right on! Very well put!:aok
Mark
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Originally posted by aerosaber
If this is a combat simulation, then the HO is part of the game. If you get killed in a head-on, just go get another airplane and try again. Much better deal than the real pilots got. Don't start flaming some guy on 200.
And again, if this is a combat simulation, its not jousting, or playing nice; Its about killing the other guy before he kills you.
Originally posted by aerosaber
I just found it strange that this practice is so dissed. Not defending myself, no need, just conversation.
Sooo ... if you apply the logic above ... why go for the HO ?
I mean, if its all about killing the other guy and if you get killed you can get another airplane, then why in the hell wouldn't one want to actually TRY and out fly the other guy for the kill. HOs are a 50% chance kill at best ... if both go for the HO.
Like TC pointed out ... if someone starts firing at me from 1K to 800 out ... I say to myself ... can I kill him in 1 turn or 2 turns.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A head-on collision is one where the front ends of two ships, trains, planes or vehicles hit each other, as opposed to a side-collision or rear-end collision.
So if we applied the same defintion logic to the AH HO ...
A HO in Aces High (as far as I am concerned) is when 2 opponents have the front end of their planes pointing at each other and BOTH have a guns solution ... anything outside of that is a (high) defelection shot by the plane that does have a guns solution.
I NEVER die to the HO unless I agree to participate.
Nasty PMs that are generated from an HO and/or RAM encounter is the result of ones inability to take responsibilty for their idiotic actions and must lay the blame elsewhere.
Personally ... I have NEVER EVER found the need to "private" someone, in the 5+ years that I have been playing, to rag on them for anything.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Nasty PMs that are generated from an HO and/or RAM encounter is the result of ones inability to take responsibilty for their idiotic actions and must lay the blame elsewhere.
What he said.
Bronk
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When there is only one of you and five of them coming in and all five do the HO on merge it gets real hard to dodge all five at once.
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Originally posted by Xargos
When there is only one of you and five of them coming in and all five do the HO on merge it gets real hard to dodge all five at once.
I've been there many times.
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People are going to do them. You can almost always avoid them. However in a tight fight, this is after the merge mind you, quite often against a pilot who is as good as you, in the same/similar plane, it can turn into a fight where you keep giving eachother the headon. Unless dueling, these shots in my book are fair game.
However my book has yet to be published.
What irks me more than a headon, is the people who jump on 200 complaining about it. It doesnt cost you a penny more, you put yourself in that position. What are they complaining about...the waste of time it took to fly to that point? WE ARE WASTING TIME!!! Whats a lil more?
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Yeaaa, this hour's HO thread!
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Yeaaa, this hour's HO thread!
But yet here you are, why is that LOLH.:rofl
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I HO CONSTANTLY!
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Originally posted by SuperDud
I HO CONSTANTLY!
They're talking about Head on passes not Hollywood and Vine!:D
Mark
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What's worse than hotards are people who defend the practice. And no, they're not "easily avoided." If the hotard is a good shot, it's just about impossible to dodge the shot without expending enough energy that you give him a large advantage.
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I head on attacked an LA yesterday.
The kill was a front quarter deflection shot and therefore not a HO from my perspective.
It was a HO until someone was critical of you. Quit trying to change your story. You said you HO'd the guy, you HO'd the guy. What part of your first quote in this post do you not remember saying?
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let me just put it this way if you always go for the HO shot no matter what the situation, or what the planes are, you are skilless and have very little talent in fighter planes.
That is all.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
What's worse than hotards are people who defend the practice. And no, they're not "easily avoided." If the hotard is a good shot, it's just about impossible to dodge the shot without expending enough energy that you give him a large advantage.
You couldnt be more wrong. HO's are exceptionaly easy to defeat. whats much harder is the guy who's actually anticpating your opener and pulling lead. Thats why you have "cold merges" in duels.
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Note the phrase "without expending enough energy that you give him a large advantage." If the other guy is a very good shooter, then you will be hit no matter how fast you are going and what direction. Theoretically, you can be hit while going five hundred miles per hour perpendicular to you opponent, if he's good enough. Obviously gunners this good are very rare, but the better the gunner is the greater the angle you ship must be from his in order to not get hit. This gives him a great angles advantage. Moreover, often you must pull hard at the last second to jink; this bleeds off a lot of energy and gives him an energy advantage.
The point is, if the other guy is a good shot and determined to head-on, you have two choices; you return fire, forcing the fight into a contest of gunnery rather than flying skill, or you can dodge his shot by sacrificing a great deal of energy and angle. Again, the better the enemy gunner is, the greater this sacrifice need be, and theoretically if he's good enough it will be impossible to dodge no matter what.
I have a challenge for you; come into my head-to-head server and we'll do a few fights. I'll make a head-on pass, but instead of returning fire you try to avoid it. I believe you will find that I'll either nail you on the head-on or else you will have expended enough energy (or given me so great an angle) that you will lose the subsequent dogfight.
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benny moore you obviously don't know what your talking about because head on's are easily avoidable. and if you avoid it right it should put you in better position to get on there 6, also if they go for the ho shot they are prbly a noob and u should easily win anyways. so remember just say NO to HO's. :lol
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You've obviously never had a really good gunner try to get you with a head-on, then. My challenge stands. You say "head-ons are easy to avoid." Then come to my server and prove it by avoiding my head-on (and I'm not even a great gunner).
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ok wat is the name of your server and what is your in game ID.
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It's Blue Sky: Maximum Realism, and I'm Benny. I'll throw it up right now.
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cc ill be there
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sonic, make sure he has the Lead Generated Gun Sight DISABLED in his arena.
(if you have that turned off, I will bet you don't land a bullet in a ho merge on me once in 10 fights. with it on, you might get a few pings, but doubt you can do damage)
AND it's the guy who did the break/lead turn who has the advantage and position not the ho'r.
If it's done right, by the time the HO dork is letting go of his trigger, I am 1/2 way around and in position to saddle 'em up.
Going for the HO put's you OUT of position.
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Right, right, he kicked my empennage and I kicked his a few too, but I didn't lay a bullet on him in a high speed head-on. Granted, I could at low speeds, but he's made his point. I still maintain that avoiding the head-on is not always possible (particularly at a low energy state or when fighting the best gunners in the game). That aside, Sonic's flying is fantastic.
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I have seen 95% of the people that complain "I got hoed" on 200, doing the same thing. They use the HO to get the kill, or they use the HO as their reason for dying.
During the merge while most are thinking "here is my chance for a kill, I'm gonna be a hero!!", the better sticks are setting up there merge to gain the angles advantage. It comes down to most of the MA population just doesn't know any better. They may understand that hoing won't make them popular, but they don't know how to win the fight after the ho.
Now one more thing. Many better sticks will be accussed of hoing after the merge when in fact they had the angles for a shot while the other stick did not. When I duel better sticks like say bighorn, there is a very fine line in what's considered a ho (after the merge of course). But there is never any confusion between us. After the merge if you have a shot and the other guy doesn't, it is not a HO. Otherwise it is another merge, or if someone fires, a HO shot.
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I, too, do not consider it a head-on if I can't pull enough lead but the other pilot can. That was a fine bit of out-maneuvering on his part. If, however, we both have gun solution and I turn away to avoid it and he takes it, then yes it is a head-on for him. I simply didn't fire and he took advantage of that.
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HO's can tick me off just as much as anyone but I still feel they are a valid tactic. It happend in real life so why is it "dirty" to do in AH2?
Personally I try to avoid them, but sometimes you get suckered into it by just being dumb, then other times you just get suckered. I think that's why they piss people off, because they know they just got sucker punched.
If I'm in a furball or if I'm already engaged in a fight then anything goes IMO and I'd expect the same from anyone I was fighting against. I think it's tactful to avoid a HO on the first pass "unless" you are out numbered. Then anything goes but I'd expect the ones with the number advantage to restrain from a easy HO kill.
Last night I was defending A28 on TT map. I'm chasing a spit getting real close to his 6 and ready for a shot but he drags me into a on coming teammate of his. Of course I could have broke off but I figured the other guy wouldn't HO me. LoL well I was wrong he sucker punched me big time.
So I took note, because he was the only guy flying a 110. Well we were defending the base and they had the fighter cap pretty good so the same guy managed to kill me again .. no biggie to me. In fact I wasn't even ticked about the HO.. I figured I should have known better.
Well I up again and this time I get a a chance to build some alt. Mr 110 comes in and does a run on the base. He flies past think he took out a gun emplacement and he starts a climb so he can make another run. Well I follow him up but I stay kinda low and I know I'm' pushing my luck because I don't have enough E.
Well as luck would have it, he makes his turn and I'm still in a good position so I pump some no tracer lead in his face as he's coming back down. I smoked one of his engines and I then drop in behind him to give chase. He manages to take out out Vh on his pass and starts to run.
I started chasing him but he had a lot more E but because he decided to leave by going over the mountain at 28 I knew I'd have a chance in catching him. Well he's like 1k out and going up the mountain so I take a few pop shots at him and must have hit him or he blacked out because of a pilot would because he crashed at the top of the mountain.
So I'm happy to kill him because it was the same guy that orginally HO'ed me while I was in the fight with another guy.
lol well wouldn't you know it.. He sends me a private message was something like "you have no game noob"
All I can say is that made my day and the best part is I have it all recored.
:rofl
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I'd shoot any of y'all head-on.
I wouldn't feel less of myself for doing it...
I wouldn't feel guilty about it...
probably my only remark after the whining that follows: "suck it up cupcake."
Of course, I usually don't last long enough to actually shoot at anyone. :) But who cares? It's just a game y'all.
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when ever i'm defending a base and heavily out numbered i'm tring to get as many kills as fast as possible. and a HO is a quick kill if i survive and then i can move on to the next target, no logic in my mind to get into a a 1 on 3,4 or what ever it is. Never bothers me to get HO'd, takes two to get in the position anyways.
i will say i have successfully HO'd 8 straight people in a 110 before being HO'd myself, i thought it was funny.
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Originally posted by Benny Moore
I, too, do not consider it a head-on if I can't pull enough lead but the other pilot can. That was a fine bit of out-maneuvering on his part. If, however, we both have gun solution and I turn away to avoid it and he takes it, then yes it is a head-on for him. I simply didn't fire and he took advantage of that.
So if you turn and he doesn't, it's a HO. That's an interesting interpretation.
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Originally posted by aerosaber
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I just found it strange that this practice is so dissed. Not defending myself, no need, just conversation.
I get the HO as much as anyone else. I usually lose, but dont start sending nastygrams to the guy who killed me.
The reason that they are dissed is because:
a) In real life, no one would deliberately gamble their lives on a 50/50 dice roll every time they engaged an enemy aicrcraft -and-
b) Generally, in real life pilots had some training. You didn't just show up one day and have an endless supply of factory fresh aircraft to zoom around in.
It's one of the things that detracts from the enjoyment of the moderately skilled pilot, because he's trying to play a different game than "Whee!!!! Let's get a kill at any cost!".
Personally, I no longer have very much trouble with them. At one time though in a different sim I did - I was much less skilled, and flying what was modeled as an anemic gunned aircraft that bled E like a stuck pig meant that an HO you avoided could kill you faster than one you took.
Bruv119 has the right of it - there's a big difference between an merge where the guy is planning to HO you, and one where he isn't. And often times, the guys who are avoiding the HO do so by too large of an amount, and give up angles in the process - or even worse position themselves for an off-center deflection shot.
It sounds contradictory, but what Bruv119 says is basically true. If the guy's going HO you avoid it and go for the angles, if the guy isn't you watch for a deflection shot if he's cut the margin too fine, and if he swings too far wide he gives up angles as you lead turn behind him.
Believe me, I've been there with the frustration. All I can say is that eventually, you don't have much trouble with it any more.
I just wish I could see better a lot of the time. Any more, when I end up HO 9 out of 10 times it's because I thought I was coming at his 6 and I'm headed straight into his teeth. I may maneuver if I realize soon enough, but if there isn't time, I usually fire in the hopes of spoiling his shot.
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I prefer to start my morning off with a 20oz. HO, no cream just sweet sugar.:cry
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some people fly,, some people HO.
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Originally posted by FBplmmr
some people fly,, some people HO.
And some people do both.
I don't buy the argument that if you HO you have no skills. I might not be the best fighter pilot but I'll take a fair one on one or even one on two against anyone any day (after that I'll do whatever it takes to stay alive). I might not win but hopefully I'll put up a good fight and we'll both (all) have fun.
Like I said earlier, if I see you turning or getting seperation for the merge, I'll turn to fight on a cold merge, if I see you coming straight at me for the HO, you'll get what you deserve. Either way I'll fight the fight you want to give me, again, unless I'm heavily outnumbered or in a furball, then I'm going to try to take down as many enemys as fast as I can to try to even the playing field. The other exception is after the merge but those usually end up being deflection shots rather than HO's as both pilots try to pull the nose around on the other.
Why in the world would you fly straight at someone if you were'nt planning a HO? If you do you have no reason to cry when it happens to you and, as I said earlier, my odds of getting the kill and flying away are very high, much higher than 50-50, closer to 80-90%.
And BTW Benny, HO's are easy to avoid as I proved to myself over a 2-3 month period of abstinence. I just got sick of all the HOers so I figured I'd just go back to teaching them some lessons.
Flame away.
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ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zz
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Morph says you all HOz!
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Originally posted by texasmom
probably my only remark after the whining that follows: "suck it up cupcake."
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Asking your kind permission to use that quote in my tag.
4XTCH
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Sure 4X :)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Personally ... I have NEVER EVER found the need to "private" someone, in the 5+ years that I have been playing, to rag on them for anything.
Never seen you do it on any channel .
Thats the difference in this game from being good and blaming
everyone else for your own short comings .
HO's and ramming ain't going away , ranting is making a huge come back .
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Hi HO Hi HO
it's up in smoke
You go
Hi HO Hi HO
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The HO is rarely despised on grounds of its 'reality'. Rather, its the nature of the HO itself which many seasoned game pilots seem to have a very loathesome attitude towards - and frankly I think its completely understandable.
The fundamental purpose of evey aerial combat maneuver is to shoot down the enemy and not be shot down yourself. It can be viewed as an art and science - not all that different from the art of boxing a prize fighter would strive to learn. In a psychological sense, to many of such 'vets' seeing a relatively novice pilot going guns blazing in every HO merge in a blatant disregard to his own surivival might be even insulting.
In the real life, the price of death justifies smart ACM, but in the game, since 'death' is hardly a factor to consider most obviously the result of combat is usually measured in whether one has shot down the other or not. Since nobody really cares about one's own virtual death in the game, why should anyone try hard to learn something, when they can just fly straight and leave it upto Lady Luck to decide who's gonna be the winner?
No matter how much one may be skilled, the deciding factor of the HO is basically luck. By going Head-to-head both parties are given a chance to shoot, and no matter how good a shot you are, if the other guy lands some rounds on your plane you will suffer for it. That's why the vets hate it. It is basically a factor of combat they cannot control, and ACM is all about control - forcing the enemy plane into a bad position, never giving him a chance to fire back, getting that perfect opportunity to finally saddle behind his rear and let 'er rip.
Therefore, the perfect fight for a vet is a fight where he is in total control. The worst fight for a vet, is a fight which win or loss is decided by a factor he cannot control - which in essence makes all his ACM training somewhat in vain. The worst moment for a vet, would be being suckered into a HO situation and getting the worst of it. The skill factor dictates the vet himself should be a winner, and yet, luck factor overrules the skill factor in the HO.
Man, that'd suck.