Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: APDrone on March 04, 2007, 10:31:27 PM
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The scores have been tallied. Before reviewing the numbers, I must explain a few things used to determine the final score.
From the Allied Objectives sent to the CiC:
Restrictions. Refinery and Radar strat must be hit by heavy bombers. Ground attack aircraft attacking trains may not use their ordnance on the strat facilities.
[/B][/i]
There was 1 object destroyed in the Fuel Refinery by a ground attack aircraft.
There were 10 objects destroyed in the Radar Factory by ground attack aircraft.
Since it was specifically stated that ground attack aircraft were not to attack the strat targets, the credit for those objects is removed from scoring and an additional penalty of 1:1 objects removed from the total tally.
This means that 2 objects were removed from the total objects destroyed at the Fuel Refinery, reducing its damage to 96%.
This also means that 20 objects were removed from the total objects destroyed at the Radar Factory, reducing its damage to 74%.
Another scoring adjustment was made to remove the 6 Axis pilots killed after the cease fire was called from the allied tallies. Due to the confusion surrounding the circumstances, no additional penalties will be assesed for the failure to cease hostilities when instructed.
(http://www.airmageddon.com/Nightmares/CM/Frame1BDA.jpg)
(http://www.airmageddon.com/Nightmares/CM/Frame1Aircraftlosses.jpg)
Summary: Frame 1 was an allied victory. Not resounding nor overwhelming, but still a victory.
This victory did come at a price, though. A special operative from the Allies was in an ultra-secret meeting with local resistance fighters in an ammo bunker at field A33. Their goal was to coordinate rescue efforts for captured Fifteenth AF pilots. Unfortunately, they were summarily blown to smithereens by an unplanned raid by some roving P38s. Other local representatives of the resistance refuse to communicate after the incident.
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What ground attack aircraft hit the dar factory?
we had all b-17's with 5 LIGHT 51 escort, dar factory was unscathed upon arrival, and flat after bomber pass. I watched it happen.
please enlighten me on what fiter hit the dar factory?
just a question
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Without naming names, just go to events logs and find which non-bomber blew up Radar Factory.
:)
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not a witch hunt, and a little late to dig, just one question there, was it a JG44?
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No, it wasn't a JG44.
You won't have to lock the rum cabinet.
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we call it aiming fluid, and I'll lookin tomorrow at the logs, too bad that happened, we flew a long *** flight to get there(practiced for 2 days).
don't recall anybody but us being assigned to the area.
could of used the escort up high, than fiters hittin our target.
but our 5 p51's did a good job fending off bad guys.
our buffs did take a beating on the egress.
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I just looked at the logs and those fighters that hit the radar factory did it 1 hour and 23 minutes into the frame. That was well after the heavy bombers hit the target and took it down 100%. Those fighter were also going after the train as instructed and IF they saw some of the radar factory up because it resupplied and started popping then we shouldn't be penalized. There shouldn't have been ANY targets there at all for them to hit after we dropped. I checked status of the radar factory within 5 mintues of our drop at T+55 and it was 100% down at that time. Did the factory start to pop back up after we dropped it and the fighters that hit the train take those buildings back down??
The times don't jive here people. The bombers hit it first. I was lead bomber into the radar factory and this is from the logs
22:08:32 Departed from Field #39 in a B-17G
22:18:16 Joined by Vlkyrie1 as gunner/observer.
23:03:33 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
This is from one of the fighters that hit the radar factory
22:10:47 Departed from Field #35 in a P-38L
22:49:09 Takes on fuel/ammo/ord at field #34.
23:22:27 Destroyed a field gun at city #01
23:22:27 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:27 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a field gun at city #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:23:37 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
That's 20 mintues AFTER the bombers hit the target.
Why are we getting a penalty again?
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oh yeah hornet33 with a double reverse behind the back double handed dunk? WTG bro.
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I reviewed the damage log and there were no duplicates of objects destroyed for the radar factory, so there must have been objects remaining after the initial run.
I will not attest to the accuracy of the strat status report it sounds like you checked.
The logs say a fighter/bomber attacked strats as they were specifically instructed not to do.
The reasoning behind that restriction is that the fighter/bombers found and destroyed trains and convoys on missions out in the middle of nowhere.
If they were flying along and found a train, they attacked it.
We, unfortunately, are restricted in that trains are only associated with strat targets, so you can't just target one in the middle of nowhere because there aren't any.
Knowing this, and trying to simulate the finding of a train in the middle of nowhere, I designed the frame to prohibit ground attack aircraft from attacking the strat the train was assigned to.
That rule was broken.
Make sense?
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Not really since we destroyed 79 out of a possible 88 targets, leaving ONLY 9 left yet the fighters destroyed 10???? Was the factory popping back up after the bombers hit it?? If so then it would be resonable for the fighters hitting at train near the factory to hit anything left standing at said factory if they could.
The math and times don't add up here.
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest here by the way, it just sounds a little hinky to me is all.
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This victory did come at a price, though. A special operative from the Allies was in an ultra-secret meeting with local resistance fighters in an ammo bunker at field A33. Their goal was to coordinate rescue efforts for captured Fifteenth AF pilots. Unfortunately, they were summarily blown to smithereens by an unplanned raid by some roving P38s. Other local representatives of the resistance refuse to communicate after the incident.
*shifty look* huh?
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Originally posted by Hornet33
Not really since we destroyed 79 out of a possible 88 targets, leaving ONLY 9 left yet the fighters destroyed 10???? Was the factory popping back up after the bombers hit it?? If so then it would be resonable for the fighters hitting at train near the factory to hit anything left standing at said factory if they could.
The math and times don't add up here.
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest here by the way, it just sounds a little hinky to me is all.
The 79 targets your squad destroyed ( btw, nice job! ) included gun positions.
I do not include gun emplacements when determining bomb damage.
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WTF DRONE.
JG44 completly droped that target. UNF lanuched up there later and were looking to hit the train and train only. THey miss understood. Bustr hit the oil complex but it was already dead and was re gened as was radar. Radar was already dead but regen.
I have the screen shots of it at 0 as well as the refinery. Give us our points back. You cant kill something if it was not there
Vlkyrie1
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Originally posted by Valkyrie
WTF DRONE.
JG44 completly droped that target. UNF lanuched up there later and were looking to hit the train and train only. THey miss understood. Bustr hit the oil complex but it was already dead and was re gened as was radar. Radar was already dead but regen.
I have the screen shots of it at 0 as well as the refinery. Give us our points back. You cant kill something if it was not there
Vlkyrie1
Sorry, Vlkyrie, but unless the log parser is messed up ( and I see no evidence of that ) the target was not completely destroyed by the bombers on the first pass. If an object was destroyed more than once, it would have showed up on my report.
The only duplicate objects destroyed on my report were convoys that the LW went back and cleaned up on a subsequent strike, so I see evidence that duplicate object destruction reporting is working.
That being said, the fact remains that the ground attack units defied orders ( knowingly or otherwise ) and attacked a strat where the orders explicitly stated not to.
The object down time setting was at 200 minutes ( maximum down time allowed ) so there should not have been any regeneration taking place ( this setting was confirmed by 2 CMs before the frame began )
If it turns out the log parser is wrong, or if I misread the tallies, I will gladly make corrections.
I will re-review the logs again this evening.
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I saw and double, tripple checked the strat and it said 100% down. I think I still have the screen shots for you if you would like.
Thanks for the quick responce nothing like service with a smile. ;)
vlkyrie
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U still won the frame anyways by a large margin. Why push it further?
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Originally posted by AKDogg
U still won the frame anyways by a large margin. Why push it further?
Because if there is a problem with the setup/log parsing/etc, then it's nice to know what it is to avoid a repeat in a closer contest, would be one reason.
Edit: ... though in this case, I'm not seeing a problem, except perhaps with the reporting of percentages on the clipboard.
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Originally posted by AKDogg
U still won the frame anyways by a large margin. Why push it further?
Because it's like getting a speeding ticket for doing 53 in a 55 zone. You wouldn't fight that if it happened to you?
There is something about this that doesn't make sense. How can the strat level show 100% destruction after we made our drop and then 20 minutes later there be something there for the fighters to hit?
It's not about getting more points for the Allied side, it's about figuring out what happened so it doesn't happen again to anyone else. If we left that many buildings up at the factory then why did the strat show 100% destruction? It shouldn't have. I've parked a GV inside a strat before and had to run around trying to find 1 building because the strat showed 1%. Friday night right after we dropped a bunch of people checked and it showed that we leveled the place 20 minutes before any Allied fighters showed up, so how where there still targets there when the fighters got there?
Too many people saw this happen for it to just go away without being investigated.
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I don't know if it helps but here is what I got.
The stats above are edited but they are mine.
REP0MANx
22:10:47 Departed from Field #35 in a P-38L
22:49:09 Takes on fuel/ammo/ord at field #34.
23:09:10 Helps TinmanX shoot down 68Austex.
23:22:27 Destroyed a field gun at city #01
23:22:27 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:27 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a field gun at city #01
23:22:28 Destroyed a train at base #01
23:23:37 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:23:37 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:23:37 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:23:37 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:24:34 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:24:34 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:25:00 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:26:15 Destroyed a Radar Factory at base #01
23:43:38 Arrived Safely at Field #54
When I arrived at the Radar facility with two pilots under my command with me, there were parts of the facility standing. The times are concurrent with the bold times above. This is a screen shot taken immediately after dropping 1000lbs of ordinance on the train that was parked at the facility. I'm sorry for the smallness of the picture, you may have to D/L it to blow it up and see the remaining buildings.
(http://members.cox.net/scott.greene2/deadtrain.jpg)
I do not recall being told verbally NOT to use remaining ordinance on remaining targets at the facility. This is from our official orders received from Allied Command:
Unforgiven
Mission: Leave A34 and head direct to V-75 to cover the re-supply train into that base. Expect
action quick, no friendlies will be in that area so anything you see inbounds will be enemy for the
first hour. Altitude at your leader’s discretion, but beware their target is on the ground. You’re
released to free hunt at T+60 for any aircraft or trains at either primary target.
Field: A34
Plane: P-38L
Fuel: 100% internal
Ordinance: 500lbs drop on initial take off.
Rockets: 10 5” for attacks after the T+ 60
[/b]
In my error, I understood this as targets of opportunity at either primary target, including trains.
So, on behalf of The UNFORGIVEN FSO Command, I concede the points awarded for targets that were not assigned. Please accept our sincere apology and our word that it will not happen again.
P.S. That roaming P-38 that kilt all the renegades at A-33 was stolen from our hangars minutes after we took off. He must have know about the meeting and infiltrated our hangar, stealing one of our back ups and eliminating the secret meeting. :noid
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Hornet,
I too have, as you say:
" .... parked a GV inside a strat before and had to run around trying to find 1 building because the strat showed 1%."
But last night, I was doing strat distruction in a 110 at a radar facility in MA Blue and after finding that last building, got a 0% on the clip board. As I turned to exit the area (feeling quite proud of my accomplishment) I noticed at least three more buildings had arisin from the ashes, as it were.
As I was very low ammo, I just headed for home, but again checked the CB, and to my surprise, it was still at zero. Upon landing, about a 7 minute flight, I again rechecked CB and it was still showing 0%.
Some 20 minutes later after another flight, I returned to the radar facility (still reading 0% on the clipboard) and noticed another 10 or 12 buildings had been rebuilt, in addition to the original 3. I took them down, looked the area over as closely as I could from 200 feet at 150 MPH, and saw nothing up. The Strat was still 0% and remained that way for over an hour.
Can this be a game wide fubar, techno glitch, or unplugged cord of which Mr. skuzzy should be apprised?
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howdy HB! havent seen ya in a while! (sorry 4 thread derailage)
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Hi yas, Casper. Salute, ol' friend.
MA Blue, most nights. Rook side. Pop in and say howdy PM (but not low 6 :D )
Back to our regularly scheduled thread topic.....
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HB, what happened in the MA to you is the strats were resupplied and the buildings were coming back up. What Drone is saying is that the buildings weren't hit in the first place. To which, Valkyrie claims they were all down and re spawned. I think the discrepancy is: Did the initial bomber strike fail to get all the buildings or did they re spawn before I got there?
:aok
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I called a cease fire because at the time we had 13 in the air and they had 50. There was no way it would have made a difference and I didn't see any further point in continuing
Another scoring adjustment was made to remove the 6 Axis pilots killed after the cease fire was called from the allied tallies.
I dont see how this is justified, If Axis command is crying uncle and thier pilots are ingauged
your absolutly right wax,i should have had my facts straight.i was a little busy with the 2 enemy in my cross hairs too do an accurate count.
Allies are penlized for axis breakdown
:huh
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Mr. REPOMAN,
From our altitude, I could not honestly say I saw every building down, or any up for that matter, but the jubulation at seeing the 0% strat number was over whelming. We all just thought the 0% ment we got everything.
All I could see was what looked like one huge crater.
Wasn't trying to say one way or another, whats over is over, just passing along what I experienced from low alt with a decent eye on everything and thought there might be a coralation (corolation) (way they were tied together). :D
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Oh, no implications of the intent of your reply. Just clarifying if there may have been some misunderstanding on your part. No worries sir
I think this horse is dead.
:) :aok
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Well, I didn't say anything yesterday, as I wanted to reverify my film, but after our flight to bomb the fuel refinery ended, I entered CM Eye mode to observe the damage on the Radar facility. I got there right after the B17s had made their attack and parked over the target and continued filming.
The film revealed 12 visible buildings remaining ( the 13th may have been obscured ) and after about 20 minutes, 10 of those 12 buildings mysteriously converted into crater icons 1 and 2 at at time. ( the mode doesn't record the aircraft, I suppose )
So, if the clipboard strat report showed the Radar Factory at 0%, then the strat report was wrong. I have yet to receive a screenshot making this claim.
If the clipboard strat report would have showed 15% active, the bombers probably would have planned a secondary attack. The question is, would the fighter/bombers been advised not to attack due to that restriction?
Now, from my standpoint, if the clipboard map could have been proven that it displayed the Radar Factory at 0%, AND the remaining targets had not been illegally destroyed by the fighter/bombers, then I would have granted full destruction with the caveat that the clipboard strat reports can no longer be used as an accurate judge of target status for scoring purposes.
Final verdict: The target was not completely destroyed by the heavy bombers and 10 targets were improperly destroyed by ground attack aircraft. My ruling stands.
I also present the caveat that the clipboard map strat report will not be recognized as a scoring tool, nor certified indicator for players to judge their actions upon.
My personal opinion is that the clipboard strat map should not even be available for FSO. It provides far more information than the crews had during the war. If you want accurate damage assesment, you should send other aircraft to the target to get an observation. I guess the best compromise would be to make its reporting a setting that can be adjusted by the CM, like radar, killshooter, plane availability, and the like.
Good luck in frame 2!
<.S>
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Well... just regard the strat info as intelligence information which is not necessarily accurate.
Misinformation and spying is part of the war :lol