Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Frodo on March 06, 2007, 07:57:56 AM
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:D :rofl
While Iommi refused to say when the vault would be opened, hard rock sources believe it will take place just prior to next month's Fall Out Boy–Honda Civic tour, which many fear will suck the remaining lifeblood from all that still rocks.
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/unreleased_jimmy_page_guitar_riff
This is so funny! For someone my age anyway, and who has a 16 yr old daughter, that listens to Fall Down Boys. :t
Frodo
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Being a musician myself i have a vested interest. The current suckiness in music started when Nirvana came out, before that everyone could play guitar for real and were serious musicians but they just looked really silly. Enter Nirvana who proved with alot of the grunge bands that you didn't need to be a technically proficient musician if you played with raw intensity and you played from the heart and you wrote music that had basic good melodic content. Now you have 2007 in which all the honest intensity has been wrung completly out of above ground rock and as usual you have to look to the underground to find anything at all interesting. The truth is this alot of the people that buy records today do so because that's all that exists because record companies will copy something add nauseum that has a resonable chance of success, because if the last garbage worked this new garbage band should sell too. Then people buy it because thats all they have and they don't know any better what they want. Then some guy like Kurt Cobain comes along and gives them what they really want but they didn't know they really wanted. They drop the old stuff like hott potatoes, the record companies copy it add nauseum again and then you have people in the underground doing stuff different again then that becomes the new thing. Repeat process again.......the next person that will light up our lives musically has probably already been born and is learning to play guitar now, but the record companies won't listen to them cause they don't sound like the current crap and they wallow in obscurity wasting their talent untill someone with a clue recognises it, and the record companies repeat the same mistakes over again. Why because some fat rich guy in a suit is deciding what's good music and what to invest his money in and he has no idea. So in the end money is the route of all music suckiness but in this world as it is it's a neccessary evil. Enter Fall Out Boy.
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Well led at least now we know all your taste is in your mouth! :aok
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Originally posted by mars01
Well led at least now we know all your taste is in your mouth! :aok
Hey Neervana rocked ............wait you like emo :confused:
:D
Your Truly
Deadpig
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You probably hated Punk Rock too, right?? :aok
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Originally posted by LEADPIG
The current suckiness in music started when Nirvana came out, before that everyone could play guitar for real and were serious musicians but they just looked really silly.
Truer words were never spoken.
Originally posted by LEADPIG
because if the last garbage worked this new garbage band should sell too.
Hey, don't be dissin Garbage. That Shirley Manson is a hottie.
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I lost a lot of respect for Page. Reading "Hammer of the Gods" only reinforced it.
Prime Example of ego:
While mixing the Led Zeppelin DVD, Kevin Shirley had to butt heads with Jimmy Page. Back in their prime Jimmy Page masked the guts of his amps with false head covers. This was brought up while mixing the DVD. There were parts of the footage where Shirley would ask Page: "What amp were you using, so I can better blend the mix. I can replicate whatever amp you were using." Page: "You'd like that wouldn't, so you can tell everyone what I using. You really would wouldn't you?" Shirley pretty much knew what amps he was using, and did the best job he could have done.
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I think music might have gone down with "nu-rock", there have always been crappy bands, there have just been more recently. Actually I don't know, I'm only 17. There have been some good recent bands though, Elliott Smith, Rage Against The Machine, Rammstein, Alice In Chains.
I went to the recent Alice In Chains concert and even with the absence of Layne Staley, the crowd was outrageous. You could hear the music, but the crowd was even louder and that's what live shows are all about, the energy.
I guess the Unplugged Nirvana album was just a bunch of crappy guitar riffs strung together and played so loud you couldn't tell the difference between chords.:rolleyes:
Rant off.
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Originally posted by nirvana
I guess the Unplugged Nirvana album was just a bunch of crappy guitar riffs strung together and played so loud you couldn't tell the difference between chords.:rolleyes:
Rant off.
Cobain was a horrible guitarist.
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Wow....ummm, yeah.....uhhh...gonna stay outta this one.
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Originally posted by mars01
You probably hated Punk Rock too, right?? :aok
Cept for a very few songs
Most punk rock sucked.
thats why you dont hear much of it anymore :cool:
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Just like every other style of music, punk music has branched off into many different subsections. Now a days it's very hard to classify plain punk rock. Especially with the emo fad going around.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Cobain was a horrible guitarist.
But he was a creative songwriter with what little he had, hence your hard pressed to find a guitar player today who can play a small semblance of a guitar solo, yet they have none of Cobain's talent for simple melodic songwriting that was raw and energetic at the same time. Jimi Hendrix for example technically was not a good guitarist but in the department of creativity i don't think he has yet to be matched. He totally redefined how to look at something in a time when nobody was doing anything close to what he was doing. He looked at the instrument as a way to make sound and was not wrapped up in how his hands could play it. Some of those sounds which btw i don't know how he thought of in the dry sounding guitar days of the beattles where before him the guitar was basically played clean with no interesting effects to it, all of a sudden he's making his guitar sound like the Vietnam war in a time where nobody understood it and there was VERY little amp technology to do it. Machine Gun for instance has nary a sweep arpeggio in it, but who cares, it is one of the rawest, from the heart, soul grinding, performances i've ever heard. Jimi reached deep in himself to describe alot of pain that we all were experiencing and to sum a whole group of peoples experiences up to make them feel it or give voice to human emotion is one of an artist's primary jobs. Jimi and Cobain were excellent at both.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Wow....ummm, yeah.....uhhh...gonna stay outta this one.
Diablo Tx we have a couple things in common, i was born and raised in the great state of Texas, and Stevie Ray Vaughn was the ****, and was one of the best blues guitarist i've ever known. That man had more heart than he knew what to do with.
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Nirvana was a decent band -- not the best, nor the most original of their "scene". Then they signed with Geffen. Geffen, being a business genius, told them not to lay on the distortion pedals all the time. They broke through. Suddenly they were stars, having gone from sub pop to top of the pops in the course of a year.
Ignorant press types started calling them "Grunge." They were never "Grunge", they replied. "Grunge" is the sound a band like the Melvins put out.
"Ooh, so the Melvins are to Nirvana as the Misfits are to Metallica?"
Clearly there's no reasoning with these people. Then they publish your guitar tabs, you do an "MTV Unplugged" bit, and everyone starts referring to you as "the artist".
They don't understand or care about the scene, the context of your sound, or even your own strengths and limitations. What's left to do?
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And crappy musicians have rocked like thunder long before Nirvana. Have you listened to any Black Sabbath guitar solos recently? Iggy and the Stooges learned to play "on the job", and yet their first album is a recognized classic.
On the other hand, Rush puts out these precious pieces with weird time signatures and Dungeons and Dragons-inspired lyrics, and they just don't move the masses.
The Onion article is hilarious, btw
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Originally posted by nirvana
I guess the Unplugged Nirvana album was just a bunch of crappy guitar riffs strung together and played so loud you couldn't tell the difference between chords.:rolleyes:
Rant off.
No, Pat Smear saved their bacon.
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Originally posted by Dinger
And crappy musicians have rocked like thunder long before Nirvana. Have you listened to any Black Sabbath guitar solos recently? Iggy and the Stooges learned to play "on the job", and yet their first album is a recognized classic.
On the other hand, Rush puts out these precious pieces with weird time signatures and Dungeons and Dragons-inspired lyrics, and they just don't move the masses.
The Onion article is hilarious, btw
Iommi is FAR from a "horrible guitarist". The key to his sound is the insert on his right index finger. Most people never realized he is missing part of his finger, they couldn't get his tone right. The insert did have an effect, they found out.
I'm sorry but Cobain to me is overrated. He used excessive distortion to hide it on 90% of their work. Now, most will compare him to John Lennon for songwriting. Not even close.
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OK so not only Led's taste is in his mouth.
I guess most of you Nirvana bashers were hair metal lovers. Nirvana wasn't playing all the flashy guitar riffs and BS for a reason. Most of the time he sang the way he did for a reason. They were the antithesis to Guns and roses/Michael Jackson BS that was all over the radio then.
They combined great songs, with great melodies and huge amounts of emotion, explosive noise and raw talent. They changed the world of music for a very short time. They displaced and drove the dagger in the Hair metal sweetheartbags of the 80s, THANK GOD! But unfortunately it couldn't last and the comercialization of what they did and the bands that tried to follow have sucked. Music was at it's worst during the Korn (korny), Limp dip **** era of the late 90s and now has fallen back into the pop mundane *****e hole it was before Nirvana, sans the hair bands thank god!
Lets start out with the fact that they were a three piece which is very hard to pull off if any one person in the band sucks. Dave Grohle is an amazing drummer and has shown his ability through Nirvana and into the Foo Fighters. Novacelic was a strong bass player, but no John Paul Jones and Cobain was just plain amazing. The way he makes fun of the rest of music in his purposely crappy guitar solo like riffs was pure geniouse.
Anyway you guys can't hear Nirvana so why waste my time. :lol
BTW - Punk hasn't gone away it became mainstream and gave birth to many bands.
And I am sorry Rush is the perfect example of great musicians that just plain suck for lack of emotion and raw talent.
Anyway back to your tasteless live MFrs LOL
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Originally posted by LEADPIG
Diablo Tx we have a couple things in common, i was born and raised in the great state of Texas, and Stevie Ray Vaughn was the ****, and was one of the best blues guitarist i've ever known. That man had more heart than he knew what to do with.
He had more natural talent in his little finger than most of today`s artists have.....or will ever have in their entire makeup.
I think the big difference is that he lived for the music, not the pay check. He was blowing people away by age 14 for next to nothing.
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Originally posted by mars01
OK so not only Led's taste is in his mouth.
I guess most of you Nirvana bashers were hair metal lovers. Nirvana wasn't playing all the flashy guitar riffs and BS for a reason. Most of the time he sang the way he did for a reason. They were the antithesis to Guns and roses/Michael Jackson BS that was all over the radio then.
They combined great songs, with great melodies and huge amounts of emotion, explosive noise and raw talent. They changed the world of music for a very short time. They displaced and drove the dagger in the Hair metal sweetheartbags of the 80s, THANK GOD! But unfortunately it couldn't last and the comercialization of what they did and the bands that tried to follow have sucked. Music was at it's worst during the Korn (korny), Limp dip **** era of the late 90s and now has fallen back into the pop mundane *****e hole it was before Nirvana, sans the hair bands thank god!
Lets start out with the fact that they were a three piece which is very hard to pull off if any one person in the band sucks. Dave Grohle is an amazing drummer and has shown his ability through Nirvana and into the Foo Fighters. Novacelic was a strong bass player, but no John Paul Jones and Cobain was just plain amazing. The way he makes fun of the rest of music in his purposely crappy guitar solo like riffs was pure geniouse.
Anyway you guys can't hear Nirvana so why waste my time. :lol
BTW - Punk hasn't gone away it became mainstream and gave birth to many bands.
And I am sorry Rush is the perfect example of great musicians that just plain suck for lack of emotion and raw talent.
Anyway back to your tasteless live MFrs LOL
I like Nirvana. I'm just saying Cobain is a chitty guitarist. The rhythm section of Nirvana was SOLID. You'd be surprised of what my CD collection consists of Mars.
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Mash, he played that way for a reason. He sang that way for a reason. Not because he sucked.
Most of his sloppy riffs were meant to be polar opposite of the GnR slash style that thrived through the 80s since Eddie VH. His ability to play like that and still produce amazing music is way outside the box and what makes him great. Hell he shattered the box into tiny pieces, knocked Michael Jackson off the charts and made the Napster Killer sweetheart bags, Metalica cut their hair. And did it all with an amazing sound.
I am not saying he was the best guitar player to have ever lived, but they were one of the best bands to have ever been hands down. Find me 5 bands that have changed music, people the industry and sound, to name a few, in one fell swoop like Nirvana.
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Again, I like Nirvana and know they changed music in their time. But, listening to them, he often played "Rhythm Guitar" as a "Lead Guitar".
I despise G n R and ALWAYS turn off their music if they pop on, on the radio. All of their songs "never seem to end".
I've never said Nirvana sucked. They don't, all I said was that Cobain wasn't that great of a guitarist. I have no idea why all of this other stuff is being said.
BTW, to answer your question:
1. Chuck Berry
2. Carl Perkins
3. Elvis (this is debatable with me, because he stole Perkin's thunder)
4. The Beatles
5. Nirvana
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Again, I like Nirvana and know they changed music in their time. But, listening to them, he often played "Rhythm Guitar" as a "Lead Guitar".
Yeah I hear ya, but that was his dis to the current scene, they made a point to not do the stale, formulaic, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, annoying look at me nothing to do with the song solo - by shredder annoying lead guitar player, verse chorus end. A lot of people don't get that.
I'll give you Cobain was no Stevie Ray Vaughn, but then none of Stevie Ray Vaughn's bands were anywhere near a Nirvana either. Kinda apples to oranges.
Most of my comments weren't directed at you either tho.
As for the 5 Bands, not single performers:
Beetles
Sabbath/Zepplin same impact same time so I count them as one.
Nirvana
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Nirvana is proof that,
Man who have very few tools and builds a mansion is a genius.
Man who have many tools and builds a shack is a moron.
Guitar players for instance like Paul Gilbert and Steve Vai fit that mold. They remind me of guys who want to say something and use a million words but can't quite say it, and guys like Stevie Ray Vaughn, Gilmour and Kurt Cobain who say the same thing with alot less and make the whole thing clear.
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Originally posted by mars01
Yeah I hear ya, but that was his dis to the current scene, they made a point to not do the stale, formulaic, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, annoying look at me nothing to do with the song solo - by shredder annoying lead guitar player, verse chorus end. A lot of people don't get that.
I'll give you Cobain was no Stevie Ray Vaughn, but then none of Stevie Ray Vaughn's bands were anywhere near a Nirvana either. Kinda apples to oranges.
Most of my comments weren't directed at you either tho.
As for the 5 Bands, not single performers:
Beetles
Sabbath/Zepplin same impact same time so I count them as one.
Nirvana
It's all good Mars. You've always been a stand up guy. <>
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It's all good Mars. You've always been a stand up guy. <>
Hey now, it's one thing to banter about music, but lets not start spreading rumors. ;)
lol like wise.
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Originally posted by mars01
Most of his sloppy riffs were meant to be polar opposite of the GnR slash style that thrived through the 80s since Eddie VH.
So talent on one end and Cobain on the other?
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No but nice try,
Talent, Cobain, making fun of CHEESY talent (like GnR et-al), through talent. :aok
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I feel comfortable in my opinion.:aok
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My favorite times were either in the late 70s when me and my bud played his brothers music, Aerosmith, Nugent, Deep Purple, and in the late 80s when metal was transformed from the glam bands to the men in black. Metallica, and Slayer.
I too felt that when Nirvana came out that it was all down hill from there. And it was. Today I listen to country music alot. See what happens when good music dies. Bumpkins are born. It shouldnt have happened.
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So Cobain played crappy guitar on purpose to poke fun at other bands? Ummmmmm.....not drinking the koolaid. Cobain made do with what talent he had.
As for Stevie Ray's band, IMO they're sharing the top spot with a few others, but not Nirvana. Tommy Shannon(bass) and Chris Layton(drums) were one of the most solid rhythm sections I've ever heard.
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al gore invented rock n roll
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LOLH well not everyone is supposed to get it and that is what makes Nirvana as good and even better than the rest, because they did it when music had once again become formulaic regurgitation that had been done over and over and over ala hair bands and all the glory they brought. Lest we not forget Tany Kitaen (sp?), David Lee Roth videos. Add chicks and anythings is palpable LOLH.
I cant wait for the next group to do it again. Glad I was around and able to get it, and get to see it happen, at least once in my lifetime.
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Originally posted by Cougar68
So Cobain played crappy guitar on purpose to poke fun at other bands? Ummmmmm.....not drinking the koolaid.
Why is that hard to believe? Page himself often played sloppy on purpose, because he was trying to mimic the rough blues style. Neil Young is intentionally sloppy. All of early punk rock was amateur sounding as a backlash against popular "rock" of the day. The fact that a lot of these guys couldn't play as clean as Chet Atkins or Steve Morse if their life depended on it is beside the point.
Cobain often said he was disappointed in how Nevermind was mixed in that it sounded too polished, which is why he used a different producer for In Utero.
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Originally posted by myelo
Why is that hard to believe? Page himself often played sloppy on purpose, because he was trying to mimic the rough blues style.
He was trashed most days and nights of the week.
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Originally posted by myelo
Why is that hard to believe?
Because it's nothing but a convenient cop out used to explain a lack of prowess on an instrument. I'm not trying to downlplay Nirvana, just being honest. There have been several very influential groups that were only mediocre on their instruments. Take Angus Young of AC/DC for example. Great riff writer, but not a solo player by any stretch. That doesn't make Young any less of a guitar player, just shows his limitations. Cobain may have been capable of writing interesting songs and structures, but picking the guitar was not his strongpoint. So what? He made the best out of what he had. To say that he played like crap on purpose as an expression of his dislike of hair bands is ludicrous and IMO cheapens anything he accomplished.
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To say that he played like crap on purpose as an expression of his dislike of hair bands is ludicrous and IMO cheapens anything he accomplished.
For me that's what makes what they accomplished so much more, because when everyone took to them and their message like fish to water, it made the rest of us that felt the same way realize we weren't alone in a sea of people like this thread, no offense intended.
I can understand why some feel the way they do as in this thread. They represent the current establishment that was ushered out by Nirvana. So I guess it's understandable some still don't get it after all that has passed.
Anyone that followed anything about Cobain knew his contempt for Corp music and the big labels and the poser rock the was so prevalent in the late 80s early 90s. Have you ever listened to the song Rape Me?
It is not a stretch to believe he purposely played his solos as random noise, rather than do what everyone of you guys wanted, some stretched out look at me shred garbage which is not much more than practice scale puke anyway. IMH, the fact that you guys don't get it only makes it more profound and makes me wonder if you really are listening to what he was saying.
"He's the one
Who likes all the pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he dont know what it means
And I say aahh"
Like I said above not everyone is supposed to get it.
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Originally posted by mars01
For me that's what makes what they accomplished so much more, because when everyone took to them and their message like fish to water, it made the rest of us that felt the same way realize we weren't alone in a sea of people like this thread, no offense intended.
I can understand why some feel the way they do as in this thread. They represent the current establishment that was ushered out by Nirvana. So I guess it's understandable some still don't get it after all that has passed.
Anyone that followed anything about Cobain knew his contempt for Corp music and the big labels and the poser rock the was so prevalent in the late 80s early 90s. Have you ever listened to the song Rape Me?
It is not a stretch to believe he purposely played his solos as random noise, rather than do what everyone of you guys wanted, some stretched out look at me shred garbage which is not much more than practice scale puke anyway. IMH, the fact that you guys don't get it only makes it more profound and makes me wonder if you really are listening to what he was saying.
"He's the one
Who likes all the pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he dont know what it means
And I say aahh"
Like I said above not everyone is supposed to get it.
You know, our "debate" yesterday made me throw on In Utero and Nevermind. "Something in the Way" - Excellent tune, with deliberate scale changes, but an "odd clarity". "Rape Me" - yep, I know he was pissed about Sub Pop being bought out by Geffen. THis is one tune, I've always known it was directed at "Record Co.s" and NOT to be taken literally as some do.
I never noticed this, and I couldn't help but chuckle. Granted he isn't the greatest of guitarists, but the message is there. Today I'll have to throw on Bleach (always my favorite).
<> mars
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Granted he isn't the greatest of guitarists, but the message is there.
<> mars
Bingo. His lack of prowess on the guitar doesn't diminish the songs.
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somewhere, in a basement in the midwest, lies my first-pressing copy of Bleach on vinyl (I'm overseas, and don't have a turntable, alas. Been reduced to listening to Pinetop Seven (http://www.pinetopseven.com/) free downaoads). Anyway, Bleach moulders right near a tape of a radio show (behind 400 watts of left-of-the-dial broadcasting power) where I play a track from Bleach, the week of its release, and tell people to go out and buy the album.
Again, not the best in show, but if you'd heeded my advice then, your investment would have seen at least 10X the return.
Then again, if y'all had taken my advice on Iraq... (And, yes, at the time, we did play lots of Black Sabbath)
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
He was trashed most days and nights of the week.
And in other breaking news ...
The pope is Catholic.
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Originally posted by myelo
And in other breaking news ...
The pope is Catholic.
7 hours for this? :rofl