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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on March 06, 2007, 12:43:49 PM

Title: Guilty!
Post by: rpm on March 06, 2007, 12:43:49 PM
link (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1596626,00.html)
(http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2007/0702/scooter_libby0226.jpg)
The wheels are officially off the Bush Administration's wagon. The web of lies and deceit is finally being revealed.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Slash27 on March 06, 2007, 12:49:14 PM
ok
Title: Guilty!
Post by: john9001 on March 06, 2007, 12:54:51 PM
Fitzgerald "we will not tolerate lying under oath"

Clinton "i never had sex with that women, not one time"
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Debonair on March 06, 2007, 12:56:54 PM
guilty of what?
downloading gay kiddie pr0ns?
I DONT RECOGNIZE THAT OLD QUEER
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Debonair on March 06, 2007, 12:57:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
...Clinton "i never had sex with that women, not one time"


well if this guy said that, he aint lying
HE IS GAY
Title: Guilty!
Post by: john9001 on March 06, 2007, 12:59:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Debonair
well if this guy said that, he aint lying
HE IS GAY


you mean like john Edwards?
Title: Guilty!
Post by: rpm on March 06, 2007, 01:03:17 PM
Clinton- lied about a hummer from a fat chick.

Libby- lied about leaking the identity of a CIA operative's name as part of a White House campaign to discredit a family member who was a critic of the case made to go to war.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: john9001 on March 06, 2007, 01:11:34 PM
clinton lied about having sex with a women.

libby lied about who told him that wilsons wife worked for the CIA.


keep the facts straight, wilsons wife was not a secret agent.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Toad on March 06, 2007, 01:12:20 PM
So it's OK to lie about some things. Because it's not the lying that is wrong.

Gotcha.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Furious on March 06, 2007, 01:22:35 PM
holy crap, i'm dizzy.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: midnight Target on March 06, 2007, 01:31:50 PM
sooooo... Libby's not guilty cause Clinton should have been?

Another "yea-but" thread.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: GtoRA2 on March 06, 2007, 01:55:43 PM
I hope he goes to jail and takes his boss with him.


Bringing up clinton in this thread is pretty silly. Both lied, both were wrong.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Flatbar on March 06, 2007, 02:14:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
clinton lied about having sex with a women.

libby lied about who told him that wilsons wife worked for the CIA.


keep the facts straight, wilsons wife was not a secret agent.


From Fitz...

Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified. Not only was it classified, but it was not widely known outside the intelligence community.

Valerie Wilson's friends, neighbors, college classmates had no idea she had another life.

The fact that she was a CIA officer was not well-known, for her protection or for the benefit of all us. It's important that a CIA officer's identity be protected, that it be protected not just for the officer, but for the nation's security.


Them's the facts!
Title: Guilty!
Post by: john9001 on March 06, 2007, 02:17:45 PM
from fitz, " no crime was commited in giving out Valerie Wilson's name"
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Mickey1992 on March 06, 2007, 02:21:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
keep the facts straight, wilsons wife was not a secret agent.


You mean she wasn't a NOC.  That's correct, but she was still a covert agent.  Disclosing information about a covert agent is still a crime.

Just to keep facts straight.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Donzo on March 06, 2007, 02:23:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mickey1992
You mean she wasn't a NOC.  That's correct, but she was still a covert agent.  Disclosing information about a covert agent is still a crime.

Just to keep facts straight.



see post above yours
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Mickey1992 on March 06, 2007, 02:25:39 PM
This pretty much summarizes it.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/feb/21/was_she_covert
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Debonair on March 06, 2007, 02:28:29 PM
i used to be a NOC dude
sun servers, cisco routers
me & about 90000 other d00ds
and maybe 3 or 4 chicks
Title: Guilty!
Post by: john9001 on March 06, 2007, 02:28:43 PM
she had been working a desk at the CIA HQ for 6 years after she left Africa, the time limit for disclosure of a agents name is 5 years.

her cover was not blown , there was no cover to blow, what was "leaked" was that wilsons wife worked at the CIA.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Donzo on March 06, 2007, 02:31:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mickey1992
This pretty much summarizes it.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/feb/21/was_she_covert


Hmmmm...you state that she wasn't a NOC, yet your link says she was.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: nirvana on March 06, 2007, 02:35:03 PM
Debonair is the best part of this thread, lolz
:rofl
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Mickey1992 on March 06, 2007, 02:36:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Donzo
Hmmmm...you state that she wasn't a NOC, yet your link says she was.


She wasn't a NOC when her name was leaked, but she was still a covert employee.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Mickey1992 on March 06, 2007, 02:38:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
the time limit for disclosure of a agents name is 5 years.


No it isn't.  Here, I did the research for you.  You're welcome.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/50/chapters/15/subchapters/iv/sections/section_426.html

- United States Code
- TITLE 50 - WAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE
- CHAPTER 15 - NATIONAL SECURITY
- SUBCHAPTER IV - PROTECTION OF CERTAIN NATIONAL SECURITY INFORMATION

(4) The term "covert agent" means -
(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an
intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed
Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency -
(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member is classified information, and
(ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States;
Title: Guilty!
Post by: GtoRA2 on March 06, 2007, 02:42:26 PM
He wasn't convicted for outing a CIA agent. He was convicted for lying to the FBI.


What Plume is/was at the time means nothing.

It sounds like he could have come out and been honest in the beginning and very possibly gotten off since he wasn’t charged for outing her.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Gunslinger on March 06, 2007, 02:45:47 PM
He was not indicted for outing plame

They did not try to prosecute him for outing plame

He was not convicted for outing plame

He was not found guilty of outing plam


Those are undeniable facts about this case.


lets not confuse this with some big conspiracy by the Bush administration.


This does sound oh so familar, once again the federal govt spent millions of tax dollars, years, and man hours to convict somone of not telling the truth.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Hap on March 06, 2007, 03:13:28 PM
http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2007/03/libby_verdict_roundup.html

Reactions.  All short.  And a prelude of what will come.

Enough in there to satisfy the political spectrum.

Looks like Real Clear took a cross section.


hap
Title: Guilty!
Post by: VWE on March 06, 2007, 03:13:44 PM
Not in a box. Not with a fox.
Not in a tree. You let me be!
I do not like green eggs and ham!
I do not like them, Sam-I-am!
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Karash on March 06, 2007, 03:45:30 PM
He was just the fall guy for the real crime.  Pity.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Karash on March 06, 2007, 03:47:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
This does sound oh so familar, once again the federal govt spent millions of tax dollars, years, and man hours to convict somone of not telling the truth.


Telling the truth in government is extremely important as it removes any sort of check on the system.  This is why Clinton should have been thrown out.  This is why GWB should be thrown out (for lying about Iraq among many things).
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Gunslinger on March 06, 2007, 03:52:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karash
for lying about Iraq among many things


oh here we go!


Elaborate your claims....that's usually done with some type of viable source.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: oboe on March 06, 2007, 03:56:59 PM
Think GWB will pardon Libby?
Title: Guilty!
Post by: rpm on March 06, 2007, 04:02:06 PM
Guns, that was the root of this whole thing. Lying about the yellow cake Saddam was going to make WMD with and the coverup that followed when Wilson started digging for the truth.

Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/03/06/ap3490365.html) has a good article on it.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Widewing on March 06, 2007, 04:33:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by oboe
Think GWB will pardon Libby?


Absolutely... With appeals, Libby will never see jail time before Bush pardons him at the end of his term... Count on it.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: Guilty!
Post by: john9001 on March 06, 2007, 04:37:44 PM
wilsons report to the govt said Iraq TRIED to buy the yellow cake.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Toad on March 06, 2007, 04:43:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
sooooo... Libby's not guilty cause Clinton should have been?

Another "yea-but" thread.


See how easily you are taken in?

They are BOTH guilty. Period.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Thrawn on March 06, 2007, 05:28:35 PM
INNOCENT!!!  :mad:


(http://i18.tinypic.com/2qu3fcl.jpg)
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Hap on March 06, 2007, 05:35:32 PM
Yup, that was the take of the video on Fox as well.

Whew.  Bet everyone is breathing a sigh a relief.

hap
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Kieran on March 06, 2007, 06:20:33 PM
Libby should do time. Clinton should have done time. It's really very simple.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: midnight Target on March 06, 2007, 06:24:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
See how easily you are taken in?

They are BOTH guilty. Period.


See how easy it was for you to say that? Maybe it should have been said from the get-go.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Masherbrum on March 06, 2007, 06:28:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Clinton- lied about a hummer from a fat chick.
 


He "got caught" with a couple more chicks than Monica.    

Libby is the scapegoat.   If he were to "testify against Cheney", he'd wind up dead on a park bench.   $20 says he doesn't do a year in a country club.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Kieran on March 06, 2007, 06:32:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Masherbrum


Libby is the scapegoat.   If he were to "testify against Cheney", he'd wind up dead on a park bench.  


I'd agree with that. Still, he chose his friends, didn't he? He chose to fall on the grenade. He better be ready to do time, 'cause I for one don't think he's gonna walk. The party needs a sacrificial lamb just about now, and he'll do just fine.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Masherbrum on March 06, 2007, 06:43:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
I'd agree with that. Still, he chose his friends, didn't he? He chose to fall on the grenade. He better be ready to do time, 'cause I for one don't think he's gonna walk. The party needs a sacrificial lamb just about now, and he'll do just fine.


He had NO CHOICE as far as I see it.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Gunslinger on March 06, 2007, 06:46:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Guns, that was the root of this whole thing. Lying about the yellow cake Saddam was going to make WMD with and the coverup that followed when Wilson started digging for the truth.

Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/03/06/ap3490365.html) has a good article on it.


GWB never lied about that.

I don't see how this is "good" when it includes this drivil:

Quote

"it was Vice President Cheney who was on trial today and who has the responsibility for what Libby did. The vice president has a personal and moral responsibility to take responsibility for what Mr. Libby did at his instruction - and to apologize to Valerie Plame."
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Keeler101 on March 06, 2007, 07:07:37 PM
YAY!!! Guilty :aok
Title: Guilty!
Post by: bj229r on March 06, 2007, 07:08:49 PM
There have been 42 posts in this thread, and not ONE of them mentions that Richard Armitage, the #2 in the State Dept under Colin Powell, first put Plame's name into the press, NOT Libby, and Fitzgerald knew this back in 2003. Libby has been convicted of lying to the Grand Jury, but it's hard to understand what his motive would have been.

(The same State dept that has actively fought the administration for the whole 6 years, as they will be there long after Bush is gone)
Title: Guilty!
Post by: DiabloTX on March 06, 2007, 07:52:29 PM
And the wheels in Washington keep turning, turning, turning...
Title: Guilty!
Post by: LePaul on March 06, 2007, 08:09:45 PM
I love how this obsctruction case somehow turns into bigger...which it aint.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Debonair on March 06, 2007, 08:17:55 PM
After reviewing all of the posts, I declare myself winner of this thread

[SIZE=8]IN
YOUR
FACE
EVERYONE
(EXCEPT
ME)
!!!
ONE[/SIZE]
[/B] [/FONT]
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Thrawn on March 06, 2007, 09:15:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
There have been 42 posts in this thread, and not ONE of them mentions that Richard Armitage, the #2 in the State Dept under Colin Powell, first put Plame's name into the press, NOT Libby, and Fitzgerald knew this back in 2003. Libby has been convicted of lying to the Grand Jury, but it's hard to understand what his motive would have been.

(The same State dept that has actively fought the administration for the whole 6 years, as they will be there long after Bush is gone)



As I said in the other thread...Armitage is a card carrying member of PNAC along with Jeb Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfwitz etc. He wasn't any kind of outsider.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: rpm on March 06, 2007, 11:39:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
GWB never lied about that.

I don't see how this is "good" when it includes this drivil:
"it was Vice President Cheney who was on trial today and who has the responsibility for what Libby did. The vice president has a personal and moral responsibility to take responsibility for what Mr. Libby did at his instruction - and to apologize to Valerie Plame."
Yes, they DID lie about it and tried to cover it up.

I don't see that as drivel. It's a pretty accurate assessment. You don't think Scooter was a scapegoat for Cheney?
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Hap on March 07, 2007, 02:04:59 AM
I actually hope it dies down.  

Going back to Jim Wright and John Tower, paybacks extract too heavy a toll.

Paybacks have had a hand in some matters political for a long spell -- long before Clinton, the Supremes in 2000, and this.  And don't jump on that and make it into more than it is.  Getting even plays a part.  Sometimes a small part especially when the other side can't find home plate.

It's pity we are what we are and the way we are.  

I'm fall on the side of truth and mercy.  They work hand in hand.  Not popular, and they ever have been.

I expect there were paybacks behind the scenes prior to my birth, 1957.  Wilson, Hoover, FDR, Truman over Dewey then Mc Carthy.  I'm not saying its that straight forward or connecting all the dots makes it simple.

One of the seemy sides of human nature, that's all.

FWIW, look at Federalist #1, you can see Hamilton alluding to it in the beginning no doubt hoping against hope to cool the kettle.

All the Best,

hap

p.s.  And rpm is right.  Fessing up is always a novel approach.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: bj229r on March 07, 2007, 06:00:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
As I said in the other thread...Armitage is a card carrying member of PNAC along with Jeb Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfwitz etc. He wasn't any kind of outsider.


So you're saying Powell and Armitage were both Bush lackey's?
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Delirium on March 07, 2007, 07:04:53 AM
Lets see... and this is just my opinion;

One side was wrong to use Libby as a scapegoat, even if he will be pardoned and will never see the inside of a jail cell. People want to see someone declared guilty, even if it isn't for the crime of releasing the identity of an operative.

The other side should of sent an open minded operative without preconceived notions, who also had a good background into nuclear engineering, and a little less well known to Niger instead of Joseph Wilson.

Again, partisan politics... disgusting at best.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Mightytboy on March 07, 2007, 07:45:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Yes, they DID lie about it and tried to cover it up.

I don't see that as drivel. It's a pretty accurate assessment. You don't think Scooter was a scapegoat for Cheney?


What kind of proof do you have that they lied?

Nothing other than the typical liberal BS mantra. "Bush lied!"

I have seen no proof EVER that Bush or Cheney lied about anything.

All I've seen is a bunch of Libs wanting it to be true and thinking if they say it enough people will actually believe it.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Jackal1 on March 07, 2007, 07:53:36 AM
Gee......someone holding a public office actualy lied?
How totaly shocking.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Donzo on March 07, 2007, 08:15:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Yes, they DID lie about it and tried to cover it up.

I don't see that as drivel. It's a pretty accurate assessment. You don't think Scooter was a scapegoat for Cheney?



Scapegoat for what?  

If there was a crime, why isn't anyone being charged with one?  If "outing" Plame was a crime, why aren't charges being brough against Richard Armitage...the guy who leaked the name to the press first?
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Gunslinger on March 07, 2007, 08:47:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Yes, they DID lie about it and tried to cover it up.

I don't see that as drivel. It's a pretty accurate assessment. You don't think Scooter was a scapegoat for Cheney?


Cmon RPM, your a smart guy.  This is BDS at it's best.  Bush never lied about the Iraq and Niger connection.  It was weak but true.
Title: Guilty!
Post by: Hap on March 07, 2007, 09:57:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Donzo
Scapegoat for what?  

If there was a crime, why isn't anyone being charged with one?  If "outing" Plame was a crime, why aren't charges being brough against Richard Armitage...the guy who leaked the name to the press first?


Well, I think we're past being "charged" with a crime.  4 Felonies is a descent start on your rap sheet I guess.

And Gun, of course to "lie" one has to know the truth then wilfully supress it.

Watch Frontlines "The Dark Side" and tell me if you think knowing deception at worst &/or "don't tell me don't tell me" so I can't get accused of lying at best didn't play a part.

I reposted a link to "The Dark Side" yesterday in a thread by that title.

All the Best,

hap