Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Uriah on March 06, 2007, 06:39:44 PM
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Just some thoughts from someone who has only played EAW until lately and only online for a year.
The reason I am considering AH are three. 1. You can 'see' the planes from far way. Why the other games don't do this is beyond me. 2. You can move your vision around the cockpit frame. Why IL-2 series has not changed is beyond me.
3. The FM (not the plane control options like mixture, magnitos and such) see excellent to me (p38 i am thinking about).
The main issue I have with AH is there is no arena where you can have nice outside views like in EAW and CFS3 (dislike CFS3 online). You can all talk all you want about 'archade' and such. All I care about is having fun and making me believe I am in a dog fight. I like to see what my plane is doing and what someone is about to do to me. Why I don't have that as an option is beyond me. If you don't want that for you, I have no problem with that. If you don't want to fly with me that way, no problem.
Lots of things are beyond me, spelling one of them.
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you can have external views ;)
it is up to the host to enable them. they are disabled in the main arenas for fighters because it gives an unfair advantage when trying to judge lead for deflection shots ;)
it's nothing to do with arcade gameplay, it's to keep the fight fair :)
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True, but not one arena for those who like the full outside views with targeting and padlocking?
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I was going to say something snooty about powerups, but I've decided
it would be counter-productive :D
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The reason is to add more of a challenge. It's much easier to keep track of the enemies with external. To be completely honest, as you build up your SA you'll never miss external in that sense. It's just HTC trying to build a balance between realism and fun.
FYI: You could always veiw from the outside of the plane by filming. Of coarse it's only after action that you'll get the external veiw you're looking for.
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If you really want outside views while dogfighting in the MA, try using an IL2 or A20. They actually do fairly well as fighters. A B26 is an option too.
When I started this game, I too missed the outside views. Now that I'm used to it, i don't miss them, and honestly I think I would have lost interest and quit long ago if concessions like that were made.
Not using them yourself is a fine choice I suppose, if others could. However, it would graetly disadvantage those who prefered to fly with the more realistic settings.
I know a few people who flew without icons enabled too. That was craziness, especially since identifying friend from foe is impossible if all countries have access to the same planes.
MtnMan
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I have a hard time understanding how anybody would be disadvantaged by having one arena with outside views. If you know that area is that way then you are 'for warned'. And for a 'new' person to enter the game with so many of the players so accustomed to the game and such good fighters I don't think new people stand a chance in ....
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If you're new, you don't stand a chance in anything, anyway. :D
If someone can see the entire sky around them, without having to look around or maneuver, they have a pronounced advantage. That's why I personally don't care for external views. Having to keep track of the other guys, and actually work at keeping an eye on them is half the challenge.
After a few (eek, going on 6) years of AH related dweebery, I'm so accustomed to the view setup that I'm infuriated trying to play a game with a different setup.
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Originally posted by Uriah:
The main issue I have with AH is there is no arena where you can have nice outside views like in EAW and CFS3 (dislike CFS3 online).
Outside views are available in the Training Arena.
Optiker
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Originally posted by Uriah
J
The main issue I have with AH is there is no arena where you can have nice outside views like in EAW and CFS3 (dislike CFS3 online). You can all talk all you want about 'archade' and such. All I care about is having fun and making me believe I am in a dog fight.
You want to be outside of your plane....to make you believe you are in a dogfight. :huh Just like the big boys in the real fighters with their outside views?
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I do understand where your coming from Uriah. Im a newb as well, been playing almost a year now. I have grown used to the internal view, and the only time I actually want external view is for landing. Makes it easier, but I know its not going to happen. Ive flown IL2 as well and much as I enjoy a external view while im just flying around, Even in IL2 I found myself switching to internal view for a dogfight. I find it makes it easier. But thats just me. As for a distinct advantage, I agree. The only way to beat them is to work hard in internal view mode and get as good as good as them! Then fight them on your terms.
Just my £0.02
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Play in an h2h room with outside views enabled, or make your own h2h room.
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Not having outside views in the figters is what "makes" this game.
After playing for about 4 years now, I find all other flight simulator combat type games completely unsatisfying and disapointing. I didn't realize how good AH was until I had a look at some of the PC based games. Overall none compares to the realistic feel of AH.
Outside views in fighters in the MA's would ruin the game. IMO.
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I am sure outside views would ruin the game for many of you. Just no need to 'ruin' it for me. I use outside views for situation awareness and help in spotting where I am in relation to an opponent. When I am chasing or running away I am in the cockpit with spit second 'looks' from the outside view to my opponent (or just where is the ground?). It's those split second looks that give me a much better sense of where I am in the virtual world. I take the old stand that such looks give a virtual pilot a closer sense of what is going on as a real pilot in a real plane would have. I am not alone in this view. One of my friends is a long time pilot and a sim player and he holds this view too. I am not saying you all are wrong, just let me have what I want. You can have what you want too.
I don't have time to play many of these games. I have to pick one and get good at it. As I have said before, AH has some things I really like. That is why I bother.
By the way, those of you who like the 'inside only' play, how long can you have a 'knife fight'?
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i had never played a game that didn't have outside views until AH and thought it would be a nightmare. only took a couple weeks and it's no big deal
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Dunno what to tell you. The game is setup the way it is, and if you hate it, you might as well find another game to play, because it's probably not going to change.
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Originally posted by Uriah
I have a hard time understanding how anybody would be disadvantaged by having one arena with outside views. If you know that area is that way then you are 'for warned'. And for a 'new' person to enter the game with so many of the players so accustomed to the game and such good fighters I don't think new people stand a chance in ....
It's honestly a big advantage to have outside views. You can use them in the bombers and planes like the C47.
I always use F3 when flying a goon and most of the time I can survive a few passes against fighters because of it. I can just easily turn into their lead.
In that kinda plane it's easy for them to kill you, but I could only imagine how much of a advantage it would be in a good fighter.
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Originally posted by Uriah
By the way, those of you who like the 'inside only' play, how long can you have a 'knife fight'?
That's easy, until the other guy is dead.
ack-ack
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Quoted for truth.
With properly-saved head positions, most aircraft can keep an eye on the enemy at all times. If not, a quick roll or bank fixes the problem by bringing the enemy into view.
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Its been this way since I started playing. I doubt there would be any change so you could see the outside view of the plane. Personally to me that seems like you are following an RC plane around. It isnt emmersive like being in the cockpit. Id give it a chance. You will learn to love it. We all did.
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Originally posted by Uriah
By the way, those of you who like the 'inside only' play, how long can you have a 'knife fight'?
I havent had that long knife fights in the MA's, but in the Dueling arena ive had loads! I seem to remember once having a knife fight for about 20 minutes once! We both lost a few parts, and I think I eventual got shot down due to a lucky shot. But that goes to show that internal views dont destroy the game. For me, that knife fight would have been over in 2 passes with External views and being in the cockpit made it sooooo tense and brilliant. Try it, and stick with it, THEN see how you feel after say two months. If you still feel the same, post again, but by reading these posts, I doubt your request will be heeded. Sorry mate! And hope to give you a knife fight sometime!
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Originally posted by Uriah
I am sure outside views would ruin the game for many of you. Just no need to 'ruin' it for me. I use outside views for situation awareness and help in spotting where I am in relation to an opponent. When I am chasing or running away I am in the cockpit with spit second 'looks' from the outside view to my opponent (or just where is the ground?). It's those split second looks that give me a much better sense of where I am in the virtual world. I take the old stand that such looks give a virtual pilot a closer sense of what is going on as a real pilot in a real plane would have. I am not alone in this view. One of my friends is a long time pilot and a sim player and he holds this view too. I am not saying you all are wrong, just let me have what I want. You can have what you want too.
I don't have time to play many of these games. I have to pick one and get good at it. As I have said before, AH has some things I really like. That is why I bother.
By the way, those of you who like the 'inside only' play, how long can you have a 'knife fight'?
You will never learn to walk, let alone run until you throw away the crutches. We already have to many in the game already, Stall limiter, auto takeoff. We don't need another one.
Learn to setup your views and how to move your head position around. How external views helps in a fight is, as you say, beyond me. How can you tell where your lift vector is in relation to your opponent when your viewing it from outside your aircraft as opposed to looking out the top of your canopy?
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Had no idea there was games out there that gave outside view for fighters. I use it for bombers, but on to coordinate missions, its easier. For a fighter though, Inside the plane is where its anway. Also In combat mode for a bomber, u are in the gun baby all the way. I dont know if any one shoots outside of their plane. That my firend would get u killed pretty quick I think. IMO
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Originally posted by Krusty
Quoted for truth.
With properly-saved head positions, most aircraft can keep an eye on the enemy at all times. If not, a quick roll or bank fixes the problem by bringing the enemy into view.
what Krusty said ^ :aok
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Originally posted by Rino
I was going to say something snooty about powerups, but I've decided
it would be counter-productive :D
Actually AH has powerups.. (Vehicle Supplies)
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Originally posted by Uriah
I have a hard time understanding how anybody would be disadvantaged by having one arena with outside views. If you know that area is that way then you are 'for warned'. And for a 'new' person to enter the game with so many of the players so accustomed to the game and such good fighters I don't think new people stand a chance in ....
For one if a areana was set up that had external views enabled on all AC there would be like 10 people in it...... not much fun there
and on the second half of your post each plane has it blind spots..... some worse than others. If they all had external views, then visablity from the cockpit wouldn't be an issue and therefore an unfair advantage.
All in all though once you get used to flying from the cockpit you'll never miss the external view.
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Get Track IR. You will forget you ever cared anything about external views. Greatest thing since the mouse!
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Here are some comments from a different perspective.
1. You can 'see' the planes from far way. Why the other games don't do this is beyond me.
This is really subject to debate.
Some people claim that acknowledging the presence of an actual object in the sky is way easier than in computer monitors, and that fact justifies the use of icons. I agree to this premise on a technical level only.
The levels of graphical representation in IL2 is noticeably high enough to run a non-icon game in most of the cases, but it is also true that in certain situations the visual detection is quite limited due to the differences of real life and computer monitors. Besides, real life pilots had 20/20 vision. If a game makes it mandatory for the gamers to have perfect physical conditions as per real life, then it becomes problematic. The existance of icons themselves is IMO justified.
However, there are some points which should be made. For onething, one may be able to question how easily IFF was done in real life. In WW2 only limited varieties of planes existed in a given theater of operations, and most likely the process of identification relied heavily on previous experiences - not on actual visual confirmation.
For example;
1) You are flying for the RAF in 1941, over the English channel. You look around and notice a group of dots to which existance you weren't notified of by the HQ. Then most likely it means they are hostile. You prepare for combat and approach, and readily notice some of the most distinct features don't match those of the German 109s you've grown accustomed to. A few days before, intel has notified the pilots of the existance of a new German fighter type. Since they don't seem, or feel like 109s, then it must be the latest fighters designated "190"s.
2) You are flying for the Luftwaffe in late 1944, over German skies. On your regular interception duties you notice a group of very high dots shining brightly from the glare of the sun. Since all your friendlies use dark camouflagees, it must be the Allied planes, most probably American fighters that fly bare-metal. The Americans seems to have dropped their classic olive-drab. During the last few months, you've seen less and less of the P-38s over German skies, since the USAAF was transitioning into P-51s and gradually phasing the P-38s out. Therefore, you guess that they are either P-47s or P-51s. As the distance draws a little bit closer, the shape of the planes are definately slick, instead of rotund and robust. It can only mean that they are the American P-51s.
Now, the question would be, in the above two examples how much of the actual identification process was done by visual recognition alone? Many people who claim identifying the types of individual fighters from miles and miles away was fairly simple, seem to be forgetting the fact that the process of 'identification' relies heavily on empirical evidence and intel as well, rather than by pure visual input alone.
There is a very important historic evidence which illustrates this point.
Fatal misidentification despite sufficient visual information led to the massacre of P-38s on June 10th of 1944, referred to as the "Blackest Day for the P-38". The 82nd FG lost at least 23 of 45 P-38s on that day, which went down in history as the day that recorded the highest single-mission loss for P-38 units of the entire war. The domestic Romanian IAR 80/81 fighters of the Grupul6 were totally obsolete in performance, and yet the P-38 pilots misidentified them as Fw190s and resorted in tactics which proved to be fatally wrong.
The IAR 80/81 looks only fleetingly similar to the Fw190, as its side profile somewhat resembles that of the slender 190D. However the wing configurations are totally different and the cowl resmebles the La-5 or the La-7 more than the Fw190. An observant pilot during combat may have noticed that there is something largely different about this fighter when compared to the Fw190D, but the IAR 80/81 was an obscure domestic fighter of the Romanians. Despite some clearly different characteristics the lack of knowledge led the P-38 pilots to believe that it was a 190. A definate proof, that 'identification' relies more on empirical knowledge than actual visual perception.
In this sense, the manner how AH depicts planes far away as clearly visible black "dots", and the amount of information given out to the gamers by the icons from woppin' 6 miles out, is undeniably too lenient in most cases. It ruins a lot of the fun involved with the process of observation and identification of hostile targets. Granted, that some people may find the amount of concentration required to fly a non-icon session of IL2 MP rooms too much demanding, but for people who have grown accustomed to it the immersion factor is very high and satisfying. Besides, AH already has the "AWACS" - radar info which tracks the location of enemy targets down to the individual dot, and then relays the information directly to the pilot via his clipboard on real-time.
There are a lot of alternatives to the current icon/radar/visual identification scheme, and many different ways to handle the icons so it invites just a little bit of more realism into the game, without making it too demanding as IL2.
2. You can move your vision around the cockpit frame. Why IL-2 series has not changed is beyond me.
This is because of an inherent problem with the IL2 engine itself. AH plane cockpits are rendered in true 3D, and the cockpits are actually located in that spot on the 3D model itself. However, IL2 cockpits aren't 3D. Its actually more close to a 2D scheme, perhaps similar to those 'facades' used in the old Hollywood movies when they depicted streets or buildings. Since the cockpit isn't true 3D, moving around the head positions might reveal an 'ugly truth'.
However, while some people praise the customizable head postions as the prime factor which makes AH superior, I agree to it only upto a certain extent. Personally, I find that AH is on the opposite extreme of things when it comes to views - its overly lenient. Its a very reasonable and well designed system for sure, but it provides the pilot with some head positions that wouldn't be accessible at all in real life, most particularly involving rear views. This may make the overall combat easier, but on the downside it supressses a lot of the 'suspense' factor to the game. Recently added/updated plane models looks into this problem a little bit, and restricts the views a lot more than the old models. However its still very generous.
3. The FM (not the plane control options like mixture, magnitos and such) see excellent to me (p38 i am thinking about).
The FM would probably require a separate post to discuss, but in general I agree that AH FM's better. For one thing, the planes in IL2 in many situations seem to be totally devoid of torque. On the other hand, the planes in AH feel almost too sensitive of aerial forces acting around the plane.
The main issue I have with AH is there is no arena where you can have nice outside views like in EAW and CFS3 (dislike CFS3 online). You can all talk all you want about 'archade' and such. All I care about is having fun and making me believe I am in a dog fight. I like to see what my plane is doing and what someone is about to do to me. Why I don't have that as an option is beyond me. If you don't want that for you, I have no problem with that. If you don't want to fly with me that way, no problem.
This is a very interesting point, because many of the AH gamers uses this very logic to justify some of the lacking aspects of realism in AH when compared to games such as IL2.
Personally, I find it either a double-standard, or an excuse to reject anything they are not familiar with. AH gamers say AH doesn't need any of those 'realism' stuff in the game (which IL2 has), because they want to enjoy combat more, instead of really dabbling into the 'realism' or 'immersion' factor of it. But then again, when it comes to the external views and stuff, they say allowing external view throws off too much realism, despite some people like you find that more entertaining.
Therefore... this very typical response from stickpig;
All in all though once you get used to flying from the cockpit you'll never miss the external view.
...almost directly applies to AH itself as well, when being compared to IL2.
If AH enhances its level of realism a couple more notches, people might find it not so difficult as they have imagined - once they get used to higher levels of realism, they'll never miss the old 'simplifed' form of it.
Its only a matter of getting used to it.
As for me, something smack in the middle of AH and IL2, would probably be the dream WW2 game for me.
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exactly ... to enhance the flight experience you actually stand behind this machine and observe it while manipulating it with a handheld joystick.---
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k45/fbplmmr/transparent-simulator.jpg?t=1173313279)
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Originally posted by Kweassa
As for me, something smack in the middle of AH and IL2, would probably be the dream WW2 game for me.
Thats about right, Maybe IL2 with 1,000 player arena
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Some one wrote..
With properly-saved head positions, most aircraft can keep an eye on the enemy at all times. If not, a quick roll or bank fixes the problem by bringing the enemy into view.
OK, now I may end up making this game the one I move to. But above raises a question. I have TrackIR. Do I care about any of the 'saved head position'?
I never thought much about making any because I do have TrackIR.
And Kweasse - out standing logic without resorting to emotion or 'it is better because I like it'.
It may all be a learning curve. Thing is, I can hop into an IL-2 game (with external views) and be able to get three kills in a half hour (not telling how many kills I give). I can't have that kind of good time yet in AH.
Any videos of AH with a knife fight? I would love to see some (no sarcasm).
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Originally posted by Uriah
Some one wrote..
Do I care about any of the 'saved head position'?
I never thought much about making any because I do have TrackIR.
Not really. I have them all set because I flew so many years without TIR and already have all my head positions set. I do find them handy sometimes though when my TIR is misbehaving and I decide to turn it off or I'm JABO bombing and don't want it on then. I probably wouldn't go to the trouble of setting all that up if I hadn't already done that though.
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Originally posted by Uriah
Some one wrote..
OK, now I may end up making this game the one I move to. But above raises a question. I have TrackIR. Do I care about any of the 'saved head position'?
I never thought much about making any because I do have TrackIR.
A
If no vector than yes it makes a diff.
If you have vector only when it acts up.(like homeboy said)
Bronk
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Originally posted by Uriah
Any videos of AH with a knife fight? I would love to see some (no sarcasm).
well, I have yet to find one showing the Troops infiltrating the map room, attacking a hidden downed pilot who is holding them off with his AH issued .45...... and them troops never seem to lower their M1's or use the bayonet attached to them.
I have found it unsuccessful to unstrap my AH-military issued KABAR, as well when ever I have had to bail out and defend off the LTARS advancement .......
what good is a bayonet or AH issued KABAR if I can not get the dang sheath strap to unbutton? I been dreaming of a knife fight since I got here :noid
( seriously, Uriah, pop into a KOTH tournyment tomorrow at 3pm est Friday March 9th, or Sat. March 24th at 9pm est, you might find a few knife fights and be able to view them 1st hand. And if you use the search function, you can find some good films and movies/videos of others in some good knife fights))
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Originally posted by Uriah
II use outside views for situation awareness and help in spotting where I am in relation to an opponent.
The one thing that imo separates the good pilot from the not so good is learning good SA. If you have that, and take advantage of it then there should really not be a need to get yourself in a position were you need to use your defencive ACM. Not everyone will agree with me on that i imagine and would rate a person with good ACM higher than one with good SA, but that is how i feel. :)
If you get a person on your six then your SA has not been good enough. It happens often if you get targets fixation. If you could then employ the highly unrealistic external view then learnig proper SA would be less uesfull and we would have more of an arcade game.
I hope they at one point will eliminate external views in bombers too cause they already have enough views from their gunnery positions. in real life i doubt the bomber crews could use external views when scanning for interceptors.
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Originally posted by Uriah
By the way, those of you who like the 'inside only' play, how long can you have a 'knife fight'?
SkyRock<-------owns knife fights!:aok
Mark
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Originally posted by Uriah
I am sure outside views would ruin the game for many of you. Just no need to 'ruin' it for me. I use outside views for situation awareness and help in spotting where I am in relation to an opponent. When I am chasing or running away I am in the cockpit with spit second 'looks' from the outside view to my opponent (or just where is the ground?). It's those split second looks that give me a much better sense of where I am in the virtual world. I take the old stand that such looks give a virtual pilot a closer sense of what is going on as a real pilot in a real plane would have. I am not alone in this view. One of my friends is a long time pilot and a sim player and he holds this view too. I am not saying you all are wrong, just let me have what I want. You can have what you want too.
I don't have time to play many of these games. I have to pick one and get good at it. As I have said before, AH has some things I really like. That is why I bother.
By the way, those of you who like the 'inside only' play, how long can you have a 'knife fight'?
First of all your in a loosing arguement from the start. Might as well give it up now cause there is no way your getting an arena with outside views available in fighters in any of the MAs. HTC has already made that pretty clear
Secondly, While it may have some aspects of arcadish type play. (usually player generated) This isnt an arcade game. Its a combat simulation. IRL dont get an external view unless you bail out.. Same goes here.
Thirdly Yes having an external view would give you a closer sense of where you are in relation to your opponent. But it would also give you a closer view then you would have as an actual pilot inasmuch as actual pilots dont have an external view. While in some planes. the view in some planes like the 109s and 190s from the inside may leave a bit something to be desired by and large Actual pilot get the same views as you get in the game. Meaning you cant see through solid objects such as the nose of the aircraft, the fuselage, and wings to see whats on the other side and where. Which is exactly what you would get if you had external views.
Fourthly You can call it an "old stand" all you want. But having external views gives you not the same sense as a real pilot would have. but an added sense that real pilots dont have. Because.... Shhhh dont tell anyone this secret now.
They cant see what it looks like from the outside from the inside of an aircraft
Not anymore then having an external view in an arcade car game gives you a better feel of what its like to drive a car it doesnt. Trust me I've driven cars for over 20 years now I know what it feels like to be driving from inside one . And I've played some of those games.
Viewing from the outside in no way,shape or form gives you a sense of what its like to actually drive a car nearly as much as it does from playing the game with an inside view only.
that being said. your "friend" is either
(a)- Not a real pilot
(b) - A complete idiot
(c)- Both
You can let him choose :cool:
Bottom line is if you really want to have external views. Your only available options are as have already been mentioned , The training arena, one of the free H2YH arenas. Or one of the other games that does allow it.
If you want to get a sense for what a real pilot has the ability and inability to sense. Then fly the MA and leanr how to and get used to having to have your head on a pivot and to leanr ot get a sense of perspective and just where you are in relation to other things just like the honest to goodness real pilots did.
BTW. there is a little guage in your cockpit called an altimeter. Works rather well in telling you how high off the ground is when the ground is not in view .
When the ground is visable a good rule of thumb is "when ground objects (trees, bushes,Buildings etc) are large. Ground is near.. When ground objects are small. Ground it far.
When in level flight your looking out of your cockpit and the trees are large and your looking up at them. Your too lo.....(Crash)
;)
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Geez.....this is a combat flight sim. I wonder if Johnson, Meyer, Priller, or Galland stepped out of their craft in midair went 100 feet behind their 6 and flew from their?
I'm sorry external views are Arcade to me. No immersion possible in that aspect. Try Doom, WOW if ya want that type of gameplay. I'm not saying this as an insult believe me but they way you are explaining this seems to me you're looking more for a first person shooter then a flight sim.
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On a practical note for no external views, If your flying outside the plane, Where is the crosshair huh? How do you know effectivly where to shoot? Ok, you can have a dmn good guess, but in internal view, you get a crosshair. Thats better than a darn guess
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(AAAAARGH. No wonder it didn't "take" - I posted it in the wrong thread....)
I for one would enjoy a more realistic feature set when it comes to aircraft management systems, but am willing to accept that the modeling for each aircraft needs to be "standardized" in order to allow the developers to keep the models to a manageable level of detail. And I don't mean flight characteristics, I mean the modeling of the aircraft systems which has been simplified down to the few most important basics, and even they are often modeled in a not entirely accurate fashion.
Take a simple one... WEP. WEP on some aircraft was simply adjusting the throttle beyond a certain stop, and the limitations on the actual amount of time that WEP could be engaged for were determined by engine temperature (with of course some relatively conservative recommended maximums designed to prevent a drastic shortening of the service lifetime of the equipment if not an outright destruction). Other's utilized a an injection system, and when you ran out of "whatever", you were done. Some had the ability to do both.
Other systems, such a propeller pitch, flaps, mixture controls, electrical systems, cowling and cooling flaps, hydraulic systems, and the like all varied from aircraft to aircraft such that it would be a work of tremendous magnitude to accurately portray the management of each system in the game in the fashion that it deserves. And additionally, each model would need it's own specific documentation to allow pilots who don't have access to the original pilot's manual some sense of how to fly it.
So it would be much more difficult for the casual player, as well as a lot more work for the developers. So while I'd prefer more realism in this area, I accept why we don't (and may never have) it.
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I am sure outside views would ruin the game for many of you. Just no need to 'ruin' it for me. I use outside views for situation awareness and help in spotting where I am in relation to an opponent. When I am chasing or running away I am in the cockpit with spit second 'looks' from the outside view to my opponent (or just where is the ground?). It's those split second looks that give me a much better sense of where I am in the virtual world.
OK your looking for immersion and feeling that you are really in a dogfight, but you want to ruin the immersion, instead of honing and relying on your SA like a real dogfight, you want some external gamey cockpit view.
Learn to live behind the stick hone your SA and you may someday realize why so many people play this game.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
SkyRock<-------owns knife fights!:aok
Mark
Only Skyrock would bring a knife to a gunfight! :D
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Uriah,
Do you know about the flight recorder option.
Press " Alt r " and a red R will show in the upper right hand corner of your monitor. The entire flight and all combat will be saved and you can review them later with the AH2 film viewer utility. The nice thing about this is when you replay the film back you can view it from several differant perspectives including:
a) Internal with actual view positions ( so you see exactly what you saw in the actual fight
b) Internal were you can change to differant views to see what you may have missed.
c) From an imaginary chase plane showing both you and the opponents planes
d) From your opponents plane so you can see what he actually saw during the fight. It will show the default forward view from his plane and your opponents actual views are not recorded, but you can manually check out different views from your opponents plane.
e) From a fixed position on the ground, like you were a foot soldier watching two planes dogfight overhead.
And you can tun on trails that make it easy for you to see the flight path of all planes in the battle and their roll rates.
Although this will not help you instantly while you are in the actual battle, there is no better tools in any other combat sim to be able to analize you fight after the battle is over.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
You will never learn to walk, let alone run until you throw away the crutches. We already have to many in the game already, Stall limiter, auto takeoff. We don't need another one.
How is the stall limiter and auto-take off a crutch? Both in no way give the you any sort of advantage over any other player. In fact, using stall limiter puts you at a disadvantage over someone not using it since you are not able to ride the edge of the envelope in your plane with stall limiter enabled.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by richard_rd
d) From your opponents plane so you can see what he actually saw during the fight. It will show the default forward view from his plane and your opponents actual views are not recorded, but you can manually check out different views from your opponents plane.
It is important to note that this is not really the view from your opponents plane. You just moved your viewpoint to the representaion of your enemies plane on your screen.
His own position relative to you could have been quite different on his FE. So if you jump into his cockpit in film viewer, don`t be surprised if he seems to be able shoot you while apparently not having a gun solution on you.
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Very true, thanks to our old buddy called internet lag. His plane could actually be 200 mSec ahead on his front end then you see of his plane on your front end. This is also what cause all the cries and moans about the collision model in the game, even though your front end may see his plane ram you, on his front end he may have avoided the collision in the last 200 mSec.
The speed of light and electrons traversing a copper wire are not going to change any time soon so we will always have about 1 mSec of delay for every 100 miles of distance your data path travels, but hopefully the next generation of the WWW and Internet routers will be able to drastically cut down on the delay and jitter caused by the routers internal buffers, this is were 90% of Internet delay comes from.
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Happy to say I got my first kill tonight in a legit dogfight. He knew I was coming but I got the fellow anyway (all internal of course).
by the way
On a practical note for no external views, If your flying outside the plane, Where is the crosshair huh? How do you know effectivly where to shoot? Ok, you can have a dmn good guess, but in internal view, you get a crosshair. Thats better than a darn guess
You just don't get what I am doing. 99.9 percent is in the cockpit. It is just split seconds of outside views that give me a sense of where I am. In a sim game that gives good proper outside views it looks like a movie. Not a flat paper plane cut out moving back and forth in front of a flat picture.
And even in the cockpit what good are crosshairs. You gotta shoot where he will be, not where he is.
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Still need to know where the bullets are going to go.
As to the knife fight, come see me in the TA some afternoon.
I'll show you a knife fight you won't forget anytime soon.
You haven't lived till you've dueled val's!