Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oboe on March 07, 2007, 11:32:02 AM
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Interesting development in the Green Mountain state. Not sure that 36 towns constitutes speaking for the whole state, but it is sort of surprising. How about those Vermonters?
Vermont Votes to Impeach (http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20070307/cm_thenation/1172344;_ylt=Ap4l.wIJTvGAHRaQgcB.ByMDW7oF)
This is from the resolution passed by Middlebury:We the people have the power -- and the responsibility -- to remove executives who transgress not just the law, but the rule of law.
The oaths that the President and Vice President take binds them to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States." The failure to do so forms a sound basis for articles of impeachment.
The President and Vice President have failed to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution" in the following ways:
1. They have manipulated intelligence and misled the country to justify an immoral, unjust, and unnecessary preemptive war in Iraq.
2. They have directed the government to engage in domestic spying without warrants, in direct contravention of U.S. law.
3. They have conspired to commit the torture of prisoners, in violation of the Federal Torture Act and the Geneva Convention.
4. They have ordered the indefinite detention without legal counsel, without charges and without the opportunity to appear before a civil judicial officer to challenge the detention -- all in violation of U.S. law and the Bill of Rights.
When strong evidence exists of the most serious crimes, we must use impeachment -- or lose the ability of the legislative branch to compel the executive branch to obey the law.
I think proving #1 may be problematic, I think #2 is completely true and even admitted by the administration, numbers #3 and 4 are also true but the passage of the Military Commissions Act made these practices legal under U.S. law, and gave retroactive protections to persons involved in the practices while it was illegal. I notice #4 doesn't say in particular WHO was being detained, though I think in fact it is both US citizens and non-citizens.
Am I off base? Is it gonna go anywhere?
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The problem is with #1, it's an inherently subjective statement and weakens the rest of the message. Argumentum ad captandum (basically, playing to the crowd) is flashy, but has no inertia.
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Those who go to town meetings have politics on their minds.
It means nothing until there is a general vote of the public.
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how can a province of Canada impeach a american president?
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Originally posted by john9001
how can a province of Canada impeach a american president?
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by john9001
how can a province of Canada impeach a american president?
:rofl
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americans do love their politics :D
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I'll have to read the constitution once again, but as I remember it the US House of Representatives is the body that writes the Articles of Impeachment and then passes it on to the Senate for trial.
So as I see it, a state which passes articles of impeachment based on unconstitutional behavior of the executive is itself practicing unconstitutional behavior.
Looks like they are true blue constitutionalists.
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did you read the article?
seems to me that they know that all they are doing is trying to force their elected officials hands.
from the article:
"...Organizers of the grassroots drive to get town meetings to back impeachment resolutions hope that the overwhelming support the initiative has received will convince Welch to introduce articles of impeachment against Bush and Cheney...."
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By the time any impeachment came around the election cycle would be in full swing and half the senate would be running for president, one third will be running for re-election, and all of the house will be up for renewal.
I read the article, they are wasting their time.
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I was born and raised in Vermont. 36 towns do not speak for the state.
Unfortunately, too many liberals have moved into the state and they hold the rest of the true nonflatlanders hostage by numbers.
It is the same with allowing homos to marry. Now, it is doing nothing but clogging the courts as people seek to have their novelty civil unions dissolved.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Unfortunately, too many liberals have moved into the state and they hold the rest of the true nonflatlanders hostage by numbers.
The way I see it, it's because of this republican administration that we are the majority now and our numbers are growing every day that GWB is in power and through some real oversight, his antics are comming to light and that's helping the fence sitters make their decision.
IMO.
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you can believe all you want that you are the majority. Fortunately you are not. The big issue that is causing so many to support the liberal manifesto is that the news they hear and see is so biased and full of outright lies, that they are unfortunately led down the wrong path.
It will all change when the liberals roll back our security and military down to a point that the terrorists attack us in the US again. Then, everyone will hopefully really see the liberals and their manifesto for what they truly are... idiotic.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
By the time any impeachment came around the election cycle would be in full swing and half the senate would be running for president, one third will be running for re-election, and all of the house will be up for renewal.
I read the article, they are wasting their time.
This is exactly as I see it. No way it could run its cycle in time to matter, making it a monumental waste of money. More than that, it would put the conservative base in defensive mode, and they would turn out in droves during election- not exactly a winning formula for the liberal side. No, too much risk to go for it.
Of course, it would be refreshing to see the libs go for it if they truly believe they have a case- you know, stand on principle whatever the cost. Who knows, I might even support them. It'd just be so... different... for politicians to put the people and country first.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
you can believe all you want that you are the majority. Fortunately you are not. The big issue that is causing so many to support the liberal manifesto is that the news they hear and see is so biased and full of outright lies, that they are unfortunately led down the wrong path.
It will all change when the liberals roll back our security and military down to a point that the terrorists attack us in the US again. Then, everyone will hopefully really see the liberals and their manifesto for what they truly are... idiotic.
You need to either move to another country or at least move to the deserted countryside. It seems like you are living in a constant state of delusional fear.
The big thing in the U.S. is (brace yourself) FREEDOM. No one wants an American version of the KGB or Gestapo running wild.
Our enemies catch us by surprise about once every 50 years, no matter what party is in office. But then again, the U.S. has always been a reactive country, a sleeping giant if you will. That is what allows us to have our freedoms and liberties.
So as soon as you say the word, I'll start a collection here in the o'club to buy you a ticket to the most locked-down, liberty-less, high security country of your choosing. Maybe you will feel safe there.
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aquablimp,
I am not advocating a Gestapo type society. Rather, I advocate a society where the news is not biased, the threats of terrorism are taken seriously, and liberals stop creating nanny laws and wasting the governments time.
You go ahead and start that collection though. Maybe you could move yourself out from under your bridge...
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/1066_1173312418_bustpwnd.jpg)
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
So as soon as you say the word, I'll start a collection here in the o'club to buy you a ticket to the most locked-down, liberty-less, high security country of your choosing. Maybe you will feel safe there.
you wanna send bodhi to england?
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pffftt...ok that was funny.
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Lets toss Vermont from the union, we can always import maple syrup from Canada. :rofl
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Originally posted by Dago
Lets toss Vermont from the union, we can always import maple syrup from Canada. :rofl
Or we could send the Idaho Militia. Idahoans are all about showing their resolve.
All the Best,
hap
Why does some of this sound like a South Park episode but in real life, sort of, with Bodhi on a desert island and Aqua under a bridge?
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I don't miss the world trade center... I would miss the UN even less.
lazs
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We the people have the power -- and the responsibility -- to remove executives who transgress not just the law, but the rule of law.
The oaths that the President and Vice President take binds them to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States." The failure to do so forms a sound basis for articles of impeachment.
The President and Vice President have failed to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution" in the following ways:
1. They have manipulated intelligence and misled the country to justify an immoral, unjust, and unnecessary preemptive war in Iraq. This is just patently false. The intel presented in the run-up to the war was essentially the exact same stuff that we saw during the Clinton administration. It was the same stuff that we saw at CENTCOM and NAVCENT throughout the 90's including the belief that Iraq had WMD
2. They have directed the government to engage in domestic spying without warrants, in direct contravention of U.S. law. Intercepting communications between foreign enemies and persons in the US is not "domestic" spying
3. They have conspired to commit the torture of prisoners, in violation of the Federal Torture Act and the Geneva Convention. Someone here obviously doesn't know what torture really is. Listening to liberal hogwash is torture so I'd say they'd have a point if the US forced prisoners to listen to the likes of Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Al Gore, etc.
4. They have ordered the indefinite detention without legal counsel, without charges and without the opportunity to appear before a civil judicial officer to challenge the detention -- all in violation of U.S. law and the Bill of Rights. Wartime prisoners have NEVER been allowed trial by jury and they have ALWAYS been held to the end of the conflict. This is not an issue of crime, it's an issue of war. Also, "detainees" are clearly illegal combatants under the Geneva Conventions.
When strong evidence exists of the most serious crimes, we must use impeachment -- or lose the ability of the legislative branch to compel the executive branch to obey the law.
What these bozos are really saying is they disagree with the policies of the President and his administration. This is fine, no matter how mistaken they are, they're entitled to their opinion but the problem here is they are seeking to criminalize differences of opinion with regard to policy for political purposes.
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I voted to kick Vermont out of the union, but it didn't matter any more than their impeachment vote...
Hell, I "voted" to give myself a 50% pay raise last year. Fat lot of good it did for me... democracy sucks.
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Originally posted by eagl
I voted to kick Vermont out of the union, but it didn't matter any more than their impeachment vote...
Hell, I "voted" to give myself a 50% pay raise last year. Fat lot of good it did for me... democracy sucks.
Eagl, I vote to give you a raise, but really dude, we should have been charging your for getting to fly an F15! Dude, do you know how much money you could make charging for rides in one of those?
I figure you probably owe us at least a million five for all the fun you had in that aircraft. Not to mention the tweety and I assume the T38.
Pay up dude.
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The only thing I have against VT is how I feel compelled to bring along my passport each time I go just so that I can buy a pack of smokes.
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Dago,
I'm paying back this last year, trust me. I wouldn't wish my current job on my worst enemy.
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Originally posted by eagl
Dago,
I'm paying back this last year, trust me. I wouldn't wish my current job on my worst enemy.
Ha ha ha ha
That's what my recruiter said! Word for word sir!
EDIT:
what pisses me off is it's usually not the maintainers that get the incentive rides. It's usually the command post or ops folks.
PS last I checked you're a major.....what are you going to do with a 50% raise besides buy a BMW?
lol JK sir
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Guns,
The crummy thing about incentive rides is that it's often simple mis-communication and high workload in MX itself that keeps maintainers out of the jet.
At Lakenheath, we offered at least 2 incentives a week to MX, and damned if they didn't go un-filled a lot of the time. It was a bit of a shame... I know MX has to turn wrenches and that takes priority over joyrides, but we were flying our jets into the ground and mission requirements always take priority.
Still, MX got the vast majority of the incentives while I was there. I think I helped process a hundred incentives for MX while I was there. Not only did each squadron have a direct relationship with their maintainers to flow incentives into any available/empty incentive line, the MXG also had about 30 "scheduled" and authorized incentive rides per year. Guess what - MXG almost never used those authorized rides. I never got accurate numbers for exactly how many maintainers we flew in the "quiet" direct relationship program, but it was enough that the official allocation was almost never touched.
That said, the other groups (mission support, services, etc) also failed to use their allocations. The only groups that ever used their allocations were ironically the ops group commander who had only 6 discretionary slots, and the wing commander who had about 10. Most of the squadron, group, and wing commander slots went to annual award winners, with only a couple of true discretionary slots allowed. Of course if the OG or WG/CC really wanted to give someone a ride, all they had to do was ask and it happened, but we really did try to manage the program fairly.
We had one guy on the incentive ride list for over a year... Either he didn't really want the ride or his shirt wouldn't release him for the day required for his ride. I hated seeing that almost as much as I hated ending a year with over 40 unused incentive allocations. The only good news about that was that the weekly incentive rides usually still flew, with a maintainer in the back seat. It was the other support personnel around the base that got hosed.
But you're right, diff bases do incentives differently and a lot of times the maintainers never get a shot. That sort of sucks.
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Regarding salary and my BMW... We went with a honda civic instead of the 335i I wanted. Sometimes even officers exhibit traces of common sense, and unfortunately this was one of those times.
I can still get that 335i with the overseas military discount... About $6000 off sticker price stateside. All I have to do is walk a mile to the BMW dealer outside the base and hand him a check. Tempting as hell but my firebird still runs fine and my wife already has a nice car, so...
Plus I want/need a used pickup to carry stuff related to the dozen or so home improvement and furniture projects I want to start. If I bought a beemer, I'd have 4 cars because I'd keep my firebird for racing on weekends. I'm already bleeding myself dry owning two houses, and I don't need to add to the pain by owning that many cars. Duplicating expenses because my wife works in a different city than I do is already a big waste of money, but that's a lot better than her not working at all.
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Sir,
Sorry if you took that personal. It was just an observation by a lowley wrench turner. Like usual it seems the break down is that the brain isn't talking to the hand and the foot at the same time and no one seems to care (at least on our end) to fix it. Either way you pilots are what keeps us in business.
from a frmr wrench turner turned hat.
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I didn't take it personally Guns, and no offense taken at all. I just felt an impulse to answer in a thorough fashion :)
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Originally posted by eagl
r in a thorough fashion :)
Oh you Air Force guys are all about fashion! :D
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Say what you like about Vermont,but you have to like their concealed carry policy.
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Originally posted by Sox62
Say what you like about Vermont,but you have to like their concealed carry policy.
I agree with you there. they are the freest of all canadians
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Just a thought. The News is not reported now, it is sold.