Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: HomeBoy on March 07, 2007, 06:29:23 PM
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I have been hounding Natural Point over a "bug" where your view snaps to your lap when you look away from the screen (e.g. to catch the score on the ballgame) and you have to do the ole TIR_Center trick to get things back. In the last post, the tech reminded me that the TIR camera should be no closer than three feet from the reflectors. Well, I'm sure you do as I do; just mount the thing on the frame of my monitor. That turns out to be only about 2 feet, maybe 27-28"; but not 36" for sure. Well, just as an experiment, I mounted the camera on the wall right behind my monitor (the back part of the CRT is touching the wall). That makes it almost four feet from the reflectors. I don't know if it's my imagination or not (I hope you'll help me decide) but it really seems to work much better. I used to have to recenter almost constantly because it would get off a lot and now it seems much better about that. And it also appears to be a lot smoother and "tamed" moreso than before. I have not had the "lap snap" to occur in the about 30 minutes that I've played with this. I really should wait until I've used it this way for a day or two before posting here but I really want anyone who will also try moving your camera back more to check this out and see if it makes things better.
Let me know what you think.
thanks
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Yes indeed. Moving the camera further out (4') has made TIR work much better! I'm pretty sure the "lap-snap" problem is fixed too. I flew about three hours tonight and did not get that problem even one time. Normally I get it many times.
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Hmmm. I just realized the tech at Natural Point told me "2 feet" not "3 feet." I went back and read that to make sure. Still, having the camera at 4 feet seems to have solved this problem and made the thing work better in general.
So, I recommend you place your TIR unit at least 3 feet from the reflectors. In my case, that means mounting it at the rear of the CRT.
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I have it mounted on the monitor, with no problems. What I have discovered is that the backgound lighting, the amount of sun light showing through a window behind me may cause problems but a set of heavy (blackout shades) has resolved that issue. Lighting from a lamp has never caused a problem.
It's at least two feet and when playing I tend to move around a lot and so my view changes, as in moving back or forward and the head to reflector may range from between two to two and a half feet. I don't even get hung up when looking back at my six.
All in all it's worked as advertised right out of the box. I do wish that the AH film software picked up the head views from IRTracker.
I only us IR for Aces High II
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I am now having this same issue after using the TIR4 for 1 full year.
I used to always use the original drivers, but I recently reformated and installed the lastest drivers. The lastest drivers are giving me the problem, but I'm going to keep them because it seems to be better overall.
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Kermit,
Why don't you try moving it out 3-4' and see how that goes? I'd be interested if it solves that problem for you as it has for me. It seems smoother and more responsive overall further away too.
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The different experiences reported are interesting. I wonder if it is a driver version issue. I, like Homeboy and Kermit, installed the newest drivers and experience the "lap-snap" whenever I look down at the keyboard. Traveler, are you also using the latest drivers? I never though of it before , but like Traveler, I move my head around lot. Although I have the TIR unit on my monitor 24" from the reflectors when I'm sitting in the upright position, I'm often leaning in as close as 8-10" when trying to line up shots (eyes don't work as well as they did when I was 25). Moving it out to 3-4 feet will keep the unit at least 2 feet from the reflectors all of the time. I'll give it a try and report.
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I'm running version 4.1.028, the latest version is 4.1.030 so no, it's not the latest driver. What I"ll do is save my current softare and down load the new drivers and see if I then have the problems that have been discribed on the board.
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OK I check it with the latest set of drivers, so far so good, it did snap down to the lap, but I forced it,, for my usual game play, I'm ok.
I found that my only probles ever using it was due to back ground lighting. or glare.
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I've now put in about six hours of flying after moving my TIR unit further out and I report with certainty that the "lap snap" problem is indeed solved. I highly recommend you set your TIR distance to four feet! It definitely behaves better in general at that distance. I mounted mine on the wall just above my monitor so that the line of sight allows me to move around well.
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I have mine 4 feet, but when I load the newest drivers I get the lap snap, have reverted to the old drivers even though I bought the LED thingy.
Balsy
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Originally posted by Balsy
I have mine 4 feet, but when I load the newest drivers I get the lap snap, have reverted to the old drivers even though I bought the LED thingy.
Balsy
Ouch! That's disappointing to hear. I wonder why that fixed mine and not yours. I was wondering about the headset clip version too. Also disappointing to hear that the problem exists with it too. Maybe that explains why Vincent at Natural Point simply replied to my "success" posting with "Ok."
Side issue: Do you think there is any advantage to having the headset clip? Some say that if you have a lot of light coming into the room (especially a window behind you) that this thing helps for that. Does it give you any other benefit (better response, etc)? I don't quite understand why it has to be powered. I really hate the idea of having an extra wire and using yet another usb port.
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Originally posted by HomeBoy
Ouch! That's disappointing to hear. I wonder why that fixed mine and not yours. I was wondering about the headset clip version too. Also disappointing to hear that the problem exists with it too. Maybe that explains why Vincent at Natural Point simply replied to my "success" posting with "Ok."
Side issue: Do you think there is any advantage to having the headset clip? Some say that if you have a lot of light coming into the room (especially a window behind you) that this thing helps for that. Does it give you any other benefit (better response, etc)? I don't quite understand why it has to be powered. I really hate the idea of having an extra wire and using yet another usb port.
I wouldnt know... I cant use the LED without the new drivers... Catch 22.
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My best guess is that the IRTracker is set or tuned for the light frequency of the LED emitter. As opposed to capturing the light frequency of the reflector. Perhaps to remove or lower the problem with background glare.
The only problem I have ever had from the unit has been caused by background glare. The result was always a snap-down to the lap. Once I removed the glare the problem of snap-down was removed.
Moving the unit away from the light source tells me that the frequency of the light is an important aspect of how the unit functions. Light wavy length changes over distance and LED light emit at a set range of frequency.
I use the reflector on the hat and it appears to work fine even with the latest drivers.
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Neither the wave length or amplitude should change over distance unless it is passing through something like water or an entire atmosphere.
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Originally posted by Traveler
My best guess is that the IRTracker is set or tuned for the light frequency of the LED emitter. As opposed to capturing the light frequency of the reflector. Perhaps to remove or lower the problem with background glare.
The only problem I have ever had from the unit has been caused by background glare. The result was always a snap-down to the lap. Once I removed the glare the problem of snap-down was removed.
Moving the unit away from the light source tells me that the frequency of the light is an important aspect of how the unit functions. Light wavy length changes over distance and LED light emit at a set range of frequency.
I use the reflector on the hat and it appears to work fine even with the latest drivers.
All I can say is you are luckier than me! Until I moved my camera out to four feet, I would get the "lap snap" in total darkness (except for the light of the monitor of course; maybe I should have turned that off too!). There appears to be degrees of unluckiness too as the four feet trick worked for me but not for Balsy. Vincent at NP says he has tried numerous times to reproduce this problem himself and cannot. It makes us "unlucky ones" look like kooks. Kook or not, I'm telling you there is a problem and it started with the driver that supported the headset clip.
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Originally posted by Traveler
My best guess is that the IRTracker is set or tuned for the light frequency of the LED emitter. As opposed to capturing the light frequency of the reflector. Perhaps to remove or lower the problem with background glare.
I think you are right. By using active LEDs that can pulse at a certain frequency, it would be possible to say with 100% accuracy whether an IR source is from the head mounted unit or from another source.
I am very seriously considering getting one myself, as in my room I have a light behind me, which I must turn off to use my TrackIR else it confuses the lightbulb with the vector clip.
Personally, my biggest problem though is that if I have the unit on top of my monitor, then when I am sat back and recal, all is good. However, when I lean in, it interprets it as leaning in and crouching down, because the TIR sensor not level with the top of my head, it is slightly above. There is no real way around this, as you want to have your head centered vertically in the middle of the screen, else you are always looking down at the screen.
Even in a perfect world, as your torso does not extend when you lean forwards and your abdomen stays in the same place, you will always lose a bit of height when you lean in.
One idea is to put the cap on backwards and put the TIR unit behind you. However, I have a high back leather chair so this won't work for me :(
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I've had the lap thing happen too. Movin the camera now........:)
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Originally posted by evilc
I think you are right. By using active LEDs that can pulse at a certain frequency, it would be possible to say with 100% accuracy whether an IR source is from the head mounted unit or from another source.
I am very seriously considering getting one myself, as in my room I have a light behind me, which I must turn off to use my TrackIR else it confuses the lightbulb with the vector clip.
Personally, my biggest problem though is that if I have the unit on top of my monitor, then when I am sat back and recal, all is good. However, when I lean in, it interprets it as leaning in and crouching down, because the TIR sensor not level with the top of my head, it is slightly above. There is no real way around this, as you want to have your head centered vertically in the middle of the screen, else you are always looking down at the screen.
Even in a perfect world, as your torso does not extend when you lean forwards and your abdomen stays in the same place, you will always lose a bit of height when you lean in.
One idea is to put the cap on backwards and put the TIR unit behind you. However, I have a high back leather chair so this won't work for me :(
Ive found wearing the hat in a "Cooter" sort of way (thats slightly tipped up for you non-Dukes of Hazzard types) eliminates the tendancy to look down when you lean forward.
Just a tip.
balsy