Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Trukk on March 08, 2007, 05:56:06 PM

Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: Trukk on March 08, 2007, 05:56:06 PM
(http://www.78th.org/harm/media/8th.jpg) (http://www.78th.org/forum/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1876)
Click on the picture for details and mission updates!

HARM #4 is coming up this Sunday @ 7:30 Eastern.  All are welcomed.

• After Action Reports (http://www.78th.org/harm/aar.pdf) (pdf)
• Campaign Stats (http://www.78th.org/harm/stats.pdf) (pdf)
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: blkmgc on March 09, 2007, 05:44:30 AM
These are a blast!....literally. :)
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: Kten on March 09, 2007, 07:59:43 AM
I'll be there:)
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: Tango on March 11, 2007, 12:49:31 AM
Be there if you want to see some seriuos action.
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: Dichotomy on March 11, 2007, 12:54:35 AM
I'm there.. hey trukk be sure and tell me how much fuel this week :D
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: tedrbr on March 11, 2007, 01:39:21 AM
Pulled this from the HARM #3 discussion, figured better to be in the more current thread:

Quote
from Stoney74

Couple of recommendations:
--Also, I know it is difficult since you don't know how many or who is going to show, but create a template for bomber formations and escort (close, high, roving) and assign folks to the different positions during those last few minutes before the roll. Diagrams here You could also template the salvo, delay, and TAS for drop in the post on the HARM message board, instead of calling it in the air.

--Maybe try separate bomber and fighter VOX channels and do bomber to escort coordination on Range.

--Assign interception duties to the fighters by group--i.e. "Close (or High, Roving, etc.) cover intercept the 4 contacts (or "bandits" (as a known enemy aircraft) at 9 o'clock". This preserves the other fighters to pick up the next group of bad guys while the first group is tangled up. A little economy of force, so to speak.

--Use a bomber route of approach that is relatively perpendicular to the "front" so that the penetration into enemy territory is perpendicular and the climbout is safe from early interception.


As to a template for formations, this was the one posted in the postings on FiLtH's first Bomb Wing mission:

(http://home.earthlink.net/~tedrbr/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/861_1164674807_formation.jpg)


* Having Escorts and Bombers on seperate VOX channels, and using Local for Bogie Alerts makes sense.  

* Having escorts run by separate CO who knows the drill (winging up, assigning pilots to cover areas, not having all escorts chase after a single plane....) from the bomber groups leaders also makes managing the mission easier.  Fighter pilot discipline is important to chase off enemy, but stay with the formation, and not all gang on one enemy plane.

* Having Escorts lift from a separate runway, or even a separate field to help limit frame rate problems.

* Having each bomber group as a separate mission with 1 minute launch times can also help with maintaining formations.  Lead group will need to run at 75 to 80% of full power once airborne to close up the formations.  High, Lead, and Low Groups can be determined by whichever altitude each group manages on the initial climb out, and assigned by Mission Leader.

* recommend 80% of maximum MAN be upper limit of speed settings during the mission.  More important to have a good close formation on a bomber run, than trying to run close to maximum MAN.

*Route should be kept simple.  The fewer, and the more shallow, the turns, the easier to keep the formation together.  KISS principle.   A large number of the participants in these missions go AFK at times, or don't have the skills to maintain a formation through many, or sharp, turns.  Better to climb out from further back, rather than paralleling the front.
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: blkmgc on March 11, 2007, 08:44:19 AM
BALANCE

Welp, heres the dealio.
  We've spent years and literally hundreds of missions flying close enough to hand off a beer if necessary. I like the idea of having organization like the above. And its cool to use this, heck its a walk in the park for us.But for many folks just learning bombers and formation flying, this may be a bit much. We can use this as a template, it looks great and we've used it. And I guess the only way to say what I'm thinking is that I will not force it down anyones throat. I think its acceptable that any tagalongs just stay close in to the main group, and the lead uses a throttle setting which allows for them to fall in, and turns that allow them to stay there. As a squadron , we can use these diciplines, but for the walkons, lets not suck out the fun factor. If they wish to join a squad, then they can be taught the art of formation flying.

Cyas tonight.
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: Kten on March 11, 2007, 11:33:33 AM
we got this and the 18 plane template in our forums, but when your doing public missions you have to ajust to all participants.
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: Trukk on March 11, 2007, 12:09:44 PM
Hehe, yeah getting a bunch of singltons to fly a good formation can be like trying to herd a bunch of cats!
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: big-mo on March 11, 2007, 05:50:50 PM
Bump.
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: Roidrage on March 11, 2007, 07:41:44 PM
Great mission guys. Was a lot of fun besides having our target covered in clouds once we arrived. Looking forward to next sunday. And I'll be ready for you damn 262s next time.
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: blkmgc on March 11, 2007, 08:01:50 PM
I'd like to commend the Escorts on this run. I was blown away by the coordination , and expertise that was executed. Many a con fell, we planted bombs on target, and most RTB'd. Good times. :)

Was also good to fly with Cooley again. :) man

Screenie (http://corruptionproductions.com/550th/forums/images/misc/HARMIV.jpg)

Cyas next week

Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: Trukk on March 11, 2007, 08:15:47 PM
Yeah, they were great!  Especially for the number of bandits that engaged the group.

But boy I hate pizza maps!
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: JimmyZ on March 11, 2007, 08:16:58 PM
Thanks for putting these missions on guys. I have the greatest time in these kinda flights.

all and cya next Sunday.
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: Roidrage on March 11, 2007, 08:30:58 PM
How did the B-17s fair? I lost all my birds thanks to a ram which I took the damage for and an LTAR that caught me out of ammo.
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: Tango on March 11, 2007, 09:10:30 PM
I RTB'd with 2. Trukk and Kten with 1 each.

Was pretty brutal up there, but fun.
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: Stoney74 on March 11, 2007, 09:17:05 PM
Enjoyed it again gents.
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: Cooley on March 11, 2007, 11:45:27 PM
That was great!

was a pleasure to fly with 550th for the first time in years,
Used to fly with them way back in Warbirds S3's

The Coordination, Navigation and Formation of the Bombers and Escort was very impressive

and as a side note:
I just happend to choose a 90th BG "Jolly Rogers" skin for that mission...

Soon after the mission I logged off and went out to dinner with the girlfriend,
as we were leaving the restaurant, I noticed an Older Gentlemen waring a jacket decorated with WWII patches.
As i got closer i just about jumped out of my shoes,
the patches were from the 90th HBG "Jolly Rogers" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so i walked over and said hello, His name is Albert Rogan, Pilot/Navigator (95 yrs old)
He seemed very excited that i recognized the squad, and him and his wife asked us to sit down, which we did for about 45 min

I explained Aces High to him, and he asked me if he could come over and "watch" the game sometime, he went on to freely tell stories
about Bomber Raids on Japanese controlled oil fields, and times where he had to keep talkin the tail gunner into staying in his spot,
also mentioned that maintaining good Navigation was the most stressfull part of mission,
 and that they loved it when the P-38's were able to escort them

Girlfriend was starting to give me the "look" by then,,
So we shook hands and exchanged phone #'s


what a great day :)
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: FiLtH on March 11, 2007, 11:54:34 PM
Don't delay!!  Meet with him asap!
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: Stoney74 on March 12, 2007, 12:37:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
Don't delay!!  Meet with him asap!


And ask if its alright to bring a tape recorder.  Verbal histories like that are immeasurably more effective than the written word.
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: tedrbr on March 12, 2007, 12:49:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Stoney74
And ask if its alright to bring a tape recorder.  Verbal histories like that are immeasurably more effective than the written word.


Think I read we are losing 1,500 WWII veterans every day.  So, I agree with the above two posts.  

Ask if you can record any time together.  

Invite him over to see the game being played.  Pick an event or squad operations night, or see if you can't get a couple squads to put on a mission for him to see.  

His reaction could go many ways, good and bad, but definitely worth the effort.  Think you'll enjoy it.  Many of my Uncles served in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam (big families, both sides), and I remember many of their stories.  Only a few left by the time I returned from Iraq, but I carried their stories with me while there.  The few that are still here listened to my stories.  

A rare opportunity.
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: blkmgc on March 12, 2007, 05:57:21 AM
Great find Cooley. You definately want to record as much as possible even if you have to hand write it. Recording would be even better, as long as he's comfortable with that. Check your PM's btw.
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: big-mo on March 12, 2007, 10:00:23 AM
Awesome run last night.  Good job escorts!

Thanks for organizing trukk!

 -Mo
Title: • HARM – 8th Air Force #4 •
Post by: blkmgc on March 13, 2007, 08:45:24 PM
Jimmyz, sent you a PM .