Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: bbosen on March 08, 2007, 06:56:30 PM
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Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this message shall come: That I, through the grace of my future son-in-law, have seen Aces High II running under LINUX, and it is marvelous in my eyes! And I also testify that I have felt and tested the flight response with my own hands, and verily it is true.
As it is written "by the testimony of two or three witnesses shall every word be established", I provide herewith links to two digital movies:
http://techvideoreview.com/FlightSimMovies/AcesHigh/Linux/MOV06224.MPG
http://techvideoreview.com/FlightSimMovies/AcesHigh/Linux/MOV06225.MPG
At Last! we can be freed from the tyranny that has heretofore bound us to the evil empire! Let the celebrations begin!
In recognition of this great event, I propose that my future son-in-law Ryan Waters be Sainted, Knighted, and that shrines to his memory be built throughout the land.
Ryan was using a recently updated copy of Fedora LINUX. Three months ago this could not support AH2, but in the interim, a lot of progress has been made with DirectX emulation under both "Wine" and "Cedega". He got it working with both DirectX emulators. With "Wine", he had to use the latest, experimental "hack" drivers (which are not yet well supported). With "Cedega", he used the current production software. Joystick, numeric keypad, and sound support all worked reasonably, and framerate was good on his laptop computer.
-Peabody-
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WTG
Framerate of 41 on a laptop aint too shabby.
Was that online or offline?
And have you tried it in the MA yet?
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I saw him fly for about an hour in free H2H. He's a newbie, but he did all right, and his LINUX/AH2 rig ran well. We used native AH2 mapping to map the joystick, because we didn't want to diddle with Logitech's "Wingman Profiler" under Linux. In the brief time available, I couldn't figure out how to map the joystick's "Hat switch", but we were able to map all of the other joystick buttons and axes. Sound, framerate, flight model, and text radios all worked just fine. We didn't try AH voice (but he says he has TeamSpeak working).
Regards,
-Peabody-
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Yay! Ding Dong the Witch could be dead!
What's he like to drink? I'll send him a bottle if we can get off this Windows Merry-go-round!
Hajo
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PLEASE MORE INFORMATION... :eek:
Please support - what wine patch was used - is wine good enough to run AH2?
Cadega - what version have you used? Was it strightforward to run AH2 or you need tweaks.
Does it works with all drivers - do you need special version of drivers (nVidia?)
If so I just go and purcache Cadega (last time I had tryed demo version it was unable to run AH2)...
More information and please - instructions how to run it!!!
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Yeah, more info would be appreciated. I did a half-hearted attempt to get it to run under Xandros Pro 4.1 via Crossover. It installed okay and even loaded up and started to run - then the game (not Xandros) didn't like the video drivers and told me to basically "come back and try again with the right video drivers". :cry
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You guys crack me up what you'll do to avoid MS.
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With Vista here... who wouldn't?
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I'll try to get some more information from Ryan Waters. However, inasmuch as he's about to marry my daughter, he is quite busy (and preocuppied). We may all have to be patient.
I've purchased a new subscription to Cedega, but it's all new to me and I haven't got it working myself yet. Maybe Ryan can make it easy for me, but I don't know yet. If I get it figgered out, I'll publish instructions.
Regards,
-Peabody-
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I'm sure your daughter is thrilled that you've introduced him to this time-sucking game :lol
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Originally posted by blackdog68
You guys crack me up what you'll do to avoid MS.
I do most stuff with Windows, including the much feared Vista. But it is nice to know there's an alternative.
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Originally posted by Krusty
I'm sure your daughter is thrilled that you've introduced him to this time-sucking game :lol
:rofl :rofl :rofl I can laugh as my wife feels the same way...and again I say:rofl :rofl
Peace and Plenty,
Kevin
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Originally posted by blackdog68
You guys crack me up what you'll do to avoid MS.
This is common misconception - Linux users do not hate MS, they like Linux and FOSS.
Linux is good because it is a way modern system and much better working environment then Windows.
For me running Windows is like flying P-40 in age of Mustangs... It is just too underpowered...
So if you have a way to prevent silly dual boot - it is very good. For example I have IL-2 that runs perfectly well under wine. So I do not have to leave comfortable working environment and boot to XP.
..........
PLEASE INSTRUCTIONS :cry
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Linux users just have a different value system. It is no worse or better than the value system of Windows users. Although, some value systems are better for a set group of people.
In regards to wine, its simply a emulation of the directX library. If you're getting better performance on linux using wine then their is somthing very seriously wrong with your driver installation on your windows box.
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Right now Linux emulates somewhere about about 85% of the speed of true directx. But it's getting better all the time. That comes straight from the Dev's. And if a program can run in OpenGL. Wine will skip Directx Emulation altogether. But AH2 uses directx only so it does emulate it.
LinuxAce
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I would like to hear from skuzzy on this matter, would HitechCreations support users on linux? using wine.
I will be intrested to know! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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I've learned that Ryan was using version 0.9.32 of Wine, which he had downloaded from the official "CVS" repository where the newest developments are tracked.
Regards,
-Peabody-
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Well, I heard once that AHI was compatible with Linux, not sure where it went incompatible. Yet who wants AHI with Linux when we could have AHII with linux?:D
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Jesus pea, you sound like you wanna jump like you won the lottery the way your speaking in the first video lol
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Yes he's very excited. As I would be too. I personally share a dislike for windows as Peabody does. So I understand how he feels.
- LinuxAce
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Right on! Time to look at turning my old box into a Linux rig dual boot just to see what happens for me.
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Originally posted by artik
This is common misconception - Linux users do not hate MS, they like Linux and FOSS.
Linux is good because it is a way modern system and much better working environment then Windows.
Argh.
Linux modern? LOL
And define better.
Just the fact that you are putting Wine on top of Linux probably on top of some GUI to run at some fraction of the speed what XP will run natively should tell you something.
And yes many Linux advocates do "hate" MS. Linux has its place, but it's not in Gaming.
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Originally posted by Krusty
I'm sure your daughter is thrilled that you've introduced him to this time-sucking game :lol
:rofl
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This much better than DAoC or WoW by FAR hehe .
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What do you mean ... "purchased a new subscription to Cedega" ??
Maybe I've been out of the tech world for too long but what happened to open source, free, alternative to Microsoft greed ?
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Originally posted by artik
This is common misconception - Linux users do not hate MS
Yep, MS users hate MS.
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Originally posted by DmdFiat
What do you mean ... "purchased a new subscription to Cedega" ??
Maybe I've been out of the tech world for too long but what happened to open source, free, alternative to Microsoft greed ?
It's a commercial work based on open source. No company will waste resources on a product that they deliver for free. Even if they give it away for free now, once a critical position on the market is established, it will turn commercial.
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I have been flying now for a couple of days using Slackware64, Slackware 11 and Suse 10.2.
Using Cedega 6.0 the games runs perfectly.
Only thing that didn't worked perfectly "out of the box" was that AH2 didn't recognice all of the buttons on my mouse. (quickely fixed with xmodmap).
The game recognized my Logitech Wingman Force 3d right away, even foce feedback works.
Playing in windowed mode I get 67-75 fps in 1200x1024 with a Gforce7300 GT.
The sound only works under ALSA, but that is standard in most distros.
Sys specs:
AMD64 3000+
1 GB RAM 533MHz
Gforce 7300GT
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I was worried that the lastest patch might not work, but it does. I've had no trouble under PcLinuxOs with Cedega. The only imperfection is that I can't map one of the buttons on my Logitech Extreme 3dPro to serve as "shift", so... no "shifted" joystick buttons. I mapped some otherwise unused keys on my 10-key pad to compensate, and I ended up liking the results even better than before.... no "shift" functions actually makes the joystick more intuitive.
-Peabody-
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OK, AH2 works prefectly well with Cedega 6.0 :D
System:
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Vience Core,
MB: ABIT AN8 with nForce 3 chipset
RAM: 1GB
GPU: nVidia 6600 128MB
OS: Linux - Debian 4.0 Etch 64 bit.
I had just installed and Run. I even got 1 on-line kill :)
It runs about 50FPS on 1280x1024 screen and I had drops to 25 over town and in less heavy environment it goes to 70-80FPS.
So there is at least two excelent games that run on Linux:
1. AH 2
2. IL-2
P.S.: Skuzzy - If you cooperate with Transgaming and make sure AH works under cedega in future releases then you get:
- Linux users
- Intel Mac OS X users
For free
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This may become another solution within the next year..................
(http://www.reactos.org/images/logo.jpg)
ReactOS (http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html)
Works well, but doesn't support USB devices, or NTFS as of yet. But is suppose to run all MS software once the operating system is completed.
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I think that wine rather will run every windows application on Linux/BSD/Mac OS X then ReacOS will be stable and mature enough in order to give a solution.
More then that who needs another Windows??? :confused: Even GPL-ed.
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Originally posted by artik
I think that wine rather will run every windows application on Linux/BSD/Mac OS X then ReacOS will be stable and mature enough in order to give a solution.
More then that who needs another Windows??? :confused: Even GPL-ed.
Obviously you didn't read anything about the OS. It's not a windows clone, but has the look and feel of Windows NT 4. The ReactOS team works closely with the Wine team so that should give you a hint. If you expecting a windows clone, ReactOS is not it, but it has the look and feel, plus installing it, using it, is about as easy as Windows. My suspicions are that it is a form of Lynx with wine incorporated into the operating system. My bet is it will be a really good option once it goes beta.
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Originally posted by TheCage
Obviously you didn't read anything about the OS. It's not a windows clone, but has the look and feel of Windows NT 4. The ReactOS team works closely with the Wine team so that should give you a hint. If you expecting a windows clone, ReactOS is not it, but it has the look and feel, plus installing it, using it, is about as easy as Windows. My suspicions are that it is a form of Lynx with wine incorporated into the operating system. My bet is it will be a really good option once it goes beta.
Argh I don't think I would like to use anything with the look and feel of NT4. Sounds horrible.
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I help out with the wine project in developing stuff on my free time. I know some of the main developers and I can tell you that wine isn't working with ReactOS at all. Wine develops for Wine only and they do not help out with other projects.
Now Wine is open source so ReactOS maybe incorporating all that Wine has implemented and then taken their own spin on it. Much like Cedega does, but spun in a different way. But you can ask anyone that develops Wine and they will tell you that they do not work closely with anyone. So please don't say ReactOS is working closely with Wine to boost the popularity of ReactOS. Just say that ReactOS is a spin off of Wine that may turn out to be a good solution for some people.
I don't mean to jump on anyone, it just bugs me when I write code for a project and some corporation tries to come and say they are working with me, or other developers and they are not.
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No offense taken Nikitis. :) I am just saying what they say on their website. To quote them:
React Operating System
ReactOS® is an advanced free open source operating system providing a ground-up implementation of a Microsoft Windows® XP compatible operating system. ReactOS aims to achieve complete binary compatibility with both applications and device drivers meant for NT and XP operating systems, by using a similar architecture and providing a complete and equivalent public interface.
ReactOS is the most complete working model of a Windows® like operating system available. Consequently, working programmers will learn a great deal by studying ReactOS source code and even participating in ReactOS development.
ReactOS has and will continue to incorporating features from newer versions and sometimes even define the state of the art in operating system technology.
In short, ReactOS is aiming to run your applications and use your hardware, a free operating system for everyone!
What is ReactOS?
ReactOS (short for React Operating System) is an open-source effort to develop a quality operating system that is compatible with Microsoft Windows applications and drivers.
Is ReactOS based on Microsoft® Windows®?
No! ReactOS consists only of GNU GPL (General Public License) and GPL compatible licensed source code.
Why ReactOS? Why clone Microsoft Windows?
First of all, ReactOS is not a clone of Windows. ReactOS is an operating system that is compatible with Microsoft Windows applications and drivers. Some of the reasons are the same as the reasons for developing Linux (an open-source UNIX clone)? In short, Linux is a great operating system, but it is not the answer for everybody. There are a lot of people that like Microsoft Windows, but are very frustrated with Microsoft's policies on various issues.
The 9x family of Microsoft Windows is based on DOS, and shares many of its weaknesses, which is the primary reason why Microsoft Windows has such a bad name. The Microsoft Windows NT family of Windows, however, has a solid design. Not everything is perfect, but without access to the source code, there is no way to fix it, so a compatible operating system must be built from the ground up.
Why don't you help develop Wine/Linux instead?
This is a very common FAQ, so it's placed in User FAQ also (and technical answer is given in Developer FAQ).
ReactOS works very closely with Wine, and thus both projects actually benefit from each other. We have several developers in both the WINE and ReactOS projects that work on cross-compatibility issues between the two projects.
It is our view that Linux + Wine can never be a full replacement for Microsoft(R) Windows(R). ReactOS has the potential for a much higher degree of compatibility - especially for Microsoft(R) Windows(R) drivers - which WINE does not address.
Like I said it's not a Windows clone, just a Windows like operating system. From what I have seen on booting this operating system, it's basically a lynx like operating system. Look and feel does not mean exactly like windows, but close enough that a windows user would feel right at home.:) How ever it's their claim that they are working with developers of wine, not my claim.:D
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And with OS X, too :D
Carry on, WHOOT for Linux!
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Nikitis:
The next time I buy a laptop computer I want to make sure it runs well with LINUX and especially with Wine. My current laptop (HP Pavilion zv5000) has nVidia GeForce4 graphics and runs Beryl and wine and Cedega, but not well enough to support Aces High "Classic" or Aces High 2.
What are the most important factors to look for (where AH2 compatibility is paramount)? What is in your laptop?
Regards,
-Peabody-
("Dad")
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TWO things will happen to Linux over the next several years.
1. Different versions will be more viable as an option vs windows to the average user. At that point, you will find yourself paying approximately what you did for windows 95, for about the same level of support all around that windows 95 had. :)
2. whenever M$ feels that any two Linux versions are capable of taking a foothold market share, they will make it so people can 'tinker' with certain versions of windows. Probably making Windows XP open source to 'some' degree opening the flood gates to wash away the sins of Linux, pushing them eventually into the land of obscurity. Eventually, anything that will remain will be gobbled up for the 'greater good' and there will still be an m$ tag on the box, and you WILL still be paying.
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Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
It's a commercial work based on open source. No company will waste resources on a product that they deliver for free. Even if they give it away for free now, once a critical position on the market is established, it will turn commercial.
yea that was what I was trying to say in short. :)
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2. whenever M$ feels that any two Linux versions are capable of taking a foothold market share, they will make it so people can 'tinker' with certain versions of windows. Probably making Windows XP open source to 'some' degree opening the flood gates to wash away the sins of Linux, pushing them eventually into the land of obscurity. Eventually, anything that will remain will be gobbled up for the 'greater good' and there will still be an m$ tag on the box, and you WILL still be paying.
Actually just the opposite. Do a web search and you'll find that MS is currently trying to put a end to open source Lynx. Novel is the first one to fall under MS's mighty weight. Since it is open source MS is looking into suing end users for a license to use Lynx. Right now they are only concerned with large companies that are currently using Lynx. How ever MS claims that there are over 200 infringement rights that are being violated. It's sorta along the lines what the music industry did. Only time will tell if MS wins out in the end or not. Personally I hope they get there prettythang handed to them on a silver platter.
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I personally work for Novell. And Bbosen can confirm this.
Novell is actually still on the side of Linux, They are actually going after Microsoft and in a vicious way. Novell needed a way to take linux into a business setting. As of now Microsoft has been creaming the Enterprise market with the Windows Server series.
As part of the Microsoft Novell deal, Microsoft has to give away Free $50 licenses of SuSE Linux Enterprise Server. Lots of them. It is killing Microsoft's Market share especially at a time when Windows Vista is not doing so well. What better way to kill the market share of a company than to have the company give away free copies of it's competitors OS. I work as Technical Support for SuSE Linux. And they pay big bucks for my services. More than the usual Tech Support. Novell has opened the way for Linux to start taking over the Enterprise world.
If you don't believe me, Linux has always had trouble moving into the Enterprise world. Just take at look at the recent news on Slashdot.org where Dell refuses to sell Ubuntu for example for business'. Companies like Dell do not believe that Ubuntu is a viable option for Enterprise or any other Linux for that matter. But heads are turning towards SuSE. I'm not saying at all that SuSE is the best Linux out there, but they are best situated for Enterprise.
Red Hat has had a market share for Enterprise, but is stagnant. There isn't any growth with them. The business model needs to be tweaked a little. Novell is a company out to make money. And yes they are using SuSE to do so. And what's wrong with Linux being used as a business model? You can still obtain Linux for free, and always will be able to. And they hurt Microsoft's marketshare in the process, which is something most of us want.
And Microsoft is just using patent infringment as a scare tactic. It doesn't really exist which is why Microsoft hasn't sued anyone over it. They are just threats that will never be realized. Novell knows this, and is not the reason they did the deal. So really Microsoft is feeling Novell's weight right now.
Just take my word on it, This Microsoft-Novell deal is good for Linux. People just aren't realizing it yet.
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To BBosen:
For a good Linux Laptop. Dell has been selling good laptops that support Linux Operating Systems as of late.
I recommend:
Processors: Intel
Graphics Card: NVIDIA Always! Doesn't matter what kind. Nvidia supports Linux. ATI as of this writting does not fully support Linux as well as it should. HOWEVER. There is a rumor that AMD (who owns ATI now) May be open sourcing their drivers soon. THIS IS JUST A RUMOR, but it has a little more likelyhood than most rumors. Even if ATI open sources drivers, it will be awhile before they work well with Linux. So go NVIDIA (Also Linux is pure opengl, and ATI's version of OpenGL is emulated. Loss of framerates) NVIDIA has OpenGL support built in to the cards.
The rest of the hardware should have intel chipset and Linux should support it alright. Getting the Nice hardware that there is a lot of in the world will increase the likelyhood that Linux will support it. (Which is always a good rule of thumb with Linux) If people have it, they will write drivers for it if there is no support.
So with everything else. Go ahead and get it.
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To TheCage:
No offense taken. I did read your quote about ReactOS, and I realize that they said that. However. I went to ask key members of the Wine Team just to clarify and they said that ReactOS uses Wine code, but does so on their own accord. No member of the Wine team has or ever will work with ReactOS developers on their project. That was a direct quote.
So I'm just saying that ReactOS is misleading everyone by saying that they are working closely with the Wine project. So just for clarification, that quote is false. Nothing against you. Just ReactOS.
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Nikitis no offense taken. This has been a friendly discussion, and not a flame fest. Good information about Lynx though, thank you for all that information. :D :aok
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I've been very impressed with Linux in the brief time I've fooled with it. Anybody who thinks XP/Vista is "better" simply doesn't know Linux. That doesn't mean that a Linux box is better,,,the difference is in the available commercial software. Linux requires a higher level of understanding since you have much less automated function. To really use linux you need some familiarity with the command line. But once you cross that bridge you find a much higher level of flexibility (and the ability to hose your system even quicker). Originally windows was simply "dumb mans DOS". It literally was a graphical inter phase. In less then 48 hours I find myself booting to the Linux OS 1st. This thread goes to the core issue. Developers make money by providing tools that either help or entertain. The vast majority are written for XP/Vista since thats were the mainstream market is. The truth is really pretty simple, Microsoft has to lose market...Linux cant gain it. The fact that Vista is a resounding flop will open the door just a bit. As MS pricing continues to go up Linux will be more and more viable. It took me less then 48 hours to completely replace my "core functionality" with Linux. Since I grew up on Dos I actually like access to the command line:).....
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I loaded wine (9.39) up on Ubuntu (7.04)...
Tried to install it from the desktop using the command line and got...
c:\\windows\\system32\\ah2102.exe": Module not found
I didn't think it could be that simple:) {but you have to at least try}. Thought I'd ask here before wading thru all the FAQ's/Doc's/Use groups. From the little bit on Ubuntu they said download the app to desktop and run the command line to install. Obviously 9.39 (they recommend an older install) is different, I dont read/comprehend well....or both;)
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You need Cedega 6.0. Commertial product based on wine. It costs about 15$.
Also I think I'd better to have nVidia graphics card and not ATI.
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how does it handle joystick throttle and the like ?
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Originally posted by straffo
how does it handle joystick throttle and the like ?
If your joystick is recognized and works you shouldn't have problems. I have one that worked out-of-the-box (Thrustmaster Afterburner II), however I don't know if jotstick HW interfaces are standard and how many of them are supported.
The only little trick you should do sometimes - if the hat behaves like an axis instead of "buttons or hat" you may need to use qjoypad - and remap the actions to bottons.
I fly
- AH2 - using Cedega 6.0
- IL-2 - using ordinary wine
- TW - native linux binary
without problems...
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Originally posted by artik
You need Cedega 6.0. Commertial product based on wine. It costs about 15$.
Also I think I'd better to have nVidia graphics card and not ATI.
My graphics card is a 7900GT so I'm fine there. My understanding is that AH runs on wine (not as well as Cedega)...planning on adding Cedega anyway but wanted to familiarize myself with wine 1st. From my limited understanding Cedega is better for games in some aspects but overall lags well behind wine for general use.