Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: FiLtH on March 09, 2007, 10:49:15 PM
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When planning FSOs make multiple targets some all 250 players arent in the same sector. The frame rates went to zero. Locked up twice. Ruins the whole experience for me watching a slideshow.
Thought we went over this.
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i had frame rate in 5-10 when i dove on b17s....in the small area there were 75-100 planes...
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BEWARE of the JG44
pushed thru the slaughter, heavy losses but we achieved.
We shine in these types of missions
beware, I have the ords for frame three, axis might as well stay home.
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Yes, well, do you really need 100+ formations to hit 2 targets? You could EASILY remove all formations (disable it in arena) and still have 3x as many bombers to accomplish all tasks. Then those 60+ fighters that were trying to vulch and didn't have squat to do for the last hour and half of the frame would actually be busy defending the bombers they had, instead of relying on absurdly large numbers of AAA laser-gunned ack platforms (I mean, "formations") to protect the bombers.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
When planning FSOs make multiple targets some all 250 players arent in the same sector. The frame rates went to zero. Locked up twice. Ruins the whole experience for me watching a slideshow.
Thought we went over this.
Filth, we thought we might see two separate groups of bombers this time around, but alas, it appeared to be a single large group. We scrambled to meet the juggernaut, and initially did very well to clear a bunch of fighters, but it is nearly impossible to stop all those airplanes. I have to congratulate all of the Axis pilots on executing the plans tonight. We did not kill all the bombers, but 48 is not bad. I think the 347th had 22 bombers all by themselves. Way to go 347th. I am not sure how our strikes went, but our train at the radar facility was still running when I last checked it, so it will be interesting to see how this one is scored. By the end, the Allies definately had control of the skies over Italy. But that is just because we were all at the officers club by then. ;)
gents.
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I refsue to give you a target. Fix your frame rate and invest by investing in a better machine. I will not when I am CO put my guys in position to be slaughtered by you.
Vlkyrie1
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I actually think they have to many bombers for the setup. Formations should have been disabled. I think with all the Axis planes together could not have killed all the bombers let alone the fighter escort. just my .02.
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i agree with dogg
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Originally posted by TracerX
Filth, we thought we might see two separate groups of bombers this time around, but alas, it appeared to be a single large group. ..... gents.
As the person planning the Bomber routing for Frame #2, I wish to state, my original Bomber Plan did indeed have 2 separate Bomber routes. However, during the 475th FG Staff (Frame CiC) meeting my original Bomber Route Plan was rejected by all 475th FG Staff members (except myself). Primary reason being the Axis having ME262s, and unwillingness to send either Bomber Group without a maximum Fighter protection.
Original Bomber Route Plan would have had Bomber at higher altitudes and both target areas would have been hit approximately T+45-50. [Note: both Bomber Groups would also have been carring more fuel].
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Byheck, I am not sure it would have been much different had it been two separate bomber groups. It is hard to say, but the eventual success you had this frame was because we were unable to finish off the fighters. We were able to hit the bombers hard, but the fighters were able to reform and protect the remnants. I believe the Axis pilots did as good as could be hoped for on this frame. I do wonder what it would have been like with formations disabled since every formation is the equivalent of three pilots.
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Originally posted by Valkyrie
I refsue to give you a target. Fix your frame rate and invest by investing in a better machine. I will not when I am CO put my guys in position to be slaughtered by you.
Vlkyrie1
So because some of us lack the super computer that can handle this game, you take that to your advantage? Gee thanks.... Let me go sell one of my kidney's so I can up my computer for next week. :rolleyes:
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Regardless of the outcome, both frames were fun. According to the logs, both sides for each frame were nearly even and close to their maximum commitment.
Having seen that, I have estimated that the Allies fielding their minimum commitment of 24 bomber pilots would produce an additional 48 aircraft above what the Axis would field due to the formations. Certainly a target rich enviroment and certainly more than enough I thought to accomplish their objectives. It was a concern I stated when writing the Axis orders for the first frame. I believe in this particular tour, the scale is tipped slightly in favor of the Allies.
However, give credit to the Allied escorts. They did thier job well and at the end of each frame were able to roam the map freely.
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You lw winers shouldn't even be here. By this point you were so desimated that you could barely field a squadron let alone and Air Force. And losing this many buffs is unsustainable. THe allies never lost his many aircraft during raids in any period.
Losing 40 % of a force is not fair to the allies period. Its not the LW's god given right to shoot down 100 planes a frame. THis game is so slanted to the defenders its not even funny. Only the LW winers complain about it.
This is more than fair and even a total disadvantage to the Allied side.
Vlkyrie1
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Val... in the same respects, nor is it the Allied god-given right to literally wipe out ALL opposition within 60 minutes. Yeah, THAT happend in the real war... :rolleyes:
In a game, it does happen, however. This is a game. When you have almost 50 more aircraft in the air, and those 50 have slaved AAA laser guided weapons, it further adds to the allied prejudice. The point was, even without formations enabled, you'd still have 3x the bombers required (or more) to destroy all targets. On top of that, as-is you still have so many fighters around they have nothing to do after the 40 minute mark (after all the LW planes have been slaughtered). So reduce the number of bombers, and put those slacker fighter units to work DEFENDING the units you do have. You still have enough to lose 2/3 or more bombers and accomplish all goals, it increases frame rates, it gives those allied pilots something to DO, and to me it seems like a win/win/win situation.*
* = allies/axis/slowcomputers
EDIT: Hey, but what do I know, right? I'm just a peon with no experience, eh?
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Originally posted by Valkyrie
Losing 40 % of a force is not fair to the allies period. Its not the LW's god given right to shoot down 100 planes a frame. THis game is so slanted to the defenders its not even funny. Only the LW winers complain about it.
This is more than fair and even a total disadvantage to the Allied side.
Vlkyrie1
OMG :O You think losing 40% of the Allies in not fair. In both frames 70% to 90% of the Axis was lost. And this was done in the first 75 to 90 minutes of each frame.
The fact that you can even state that this setup favors the Axis is freaking unbelievable when the outcome of not one but both frames states differently. Vlkyrie you should get a reality check :noid
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Vlkyrie needs a serious reality check here. I had a freakin blast both frames even though the allied fighter stream never seemed to end. Lost my plane in both frames .... actually most flying axis lost their planes in both frames.
You lw winers shouldn't even be here.
Tell ya what bub ... you have fun flyin these scenarios all by yourself. And as for the "lw whiners" comment ... I "attempt" to fly these birds. Why you ask? Because someone has to or there would not be a bloody FSO.
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DEEP BREATH,
everybody step away from the keyboard, nothing good will come from this.
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Sorry doobs ... no disrespect meant to anyone. But someone should seriously tell Vlkyrie exactly what was wrong with his statement.
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Hmm. I wasnt going to get into this thread but now I think I will.
Couple of things.
Firstly, I will freely admitt I mostly fly allied rides in SEA setups, but like everybody else, my squad flies axis as well, for many reasons. Change of pace, side balancing, whatever. We are currently axis in this one.
I am an ex FSO designer and CM, and have participated in countless FSO and other Scenario missions over the years.
That being said.
I can see a genuine need to keep HUGE #s of a/c from all getting into the same battle space if its possible to avoid, there are still legitimate concerns over how PCs can handle the load, ect.
I dont see anybody from the designers point of view trying to "screw over" any particular side...the CM crew puts a lot of effort into making these things run, and I dont think those kinds of accusations are ever helpfull.
"The fortunes of war" can be unkind sometimes, and make for a hard frame for anybody, we have all been there. Its the nature of these things.
I dont see a problem with having several targets setup for heavy bombers to spread out the streams a bit if the #s call for it (sometimes they do....sometimes its not as big a problem depends on the design). Nobody is saying the allied side cant send a strong escort. Nobody is asking anybody to be sent to a "slaughter".
"Winning" is no the be all and end all in FSOs. Its having a fun expereince with some historical matchups. Its never going to be perfect, there are always designs and play challenges in these things, so relax, and have fun.
Dissing another squad or player is also a poor strategy, because we all get shifted, your deadly nemesis in one FSO is your escort in the next design! We are just players, this isnt war. We are all part of the FSOs.
Constructive criticism I think is a good thing, lets air concerns, but lets not get ugly about it over the competative nature of it. Lets be respectfull.
;)
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KEKEKKEEK YOUR ALL GONNA DIE FROM THE LAGGY WORLD OF AH FSO IN 1 SECTOR. ILL RETURN TO THE FSOOO SOON SKECTCH KEKEKEKEK
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Ummm I am Allied. I'm complaining because just a couple Sundays ago many of us discussed spreading out players in these events so that its easier on people's machines. Maybe those people were'nt part of the planning on this.
For the record. Next time spread out attack in either multiple targets, or multiple waves.
I can't defend the bombers at a zero fps.
Oh and lighten up with the CO thing.
Been there,done that, knocked it up, and sold the puppies.
Its a game.
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Then give us some figgin leway in timing the attack. Having everyone attack targets by T+60 is mindless as in this frame buffs didn't have time to properly form up at alt, they should be flown at 37 man and they were all at 44+ all the way. Give us time to form up and maybe we could come in at different times. That would be fun. Or better yet give us a wide array of targets to hit so the LW doesn't camp. Give the LW radar, and make them work for an intercept. I am not in maps but I would be happy to plan events as soon as the map is put in place.
For god sake give the buffs a fighting chance losing 40% is unreasonable. And yes losing 90% of the LW is unreasonalbe. There are many things you could change and would make it better, but some of the idiotic rules of FSO must be changed to do this.
During the Ruhr series I never remember having these kinds of issues. It would give the LW a better shot at it, change the problems facing the allies and be a better event overall.
As for laser guided 50's it just isn't the case. I can't hit watermelon with the 50's and my gunnary is very good. So stop the falsehoods being told in this thread.
Side balancing with those changes would be correct as you LW could work to try and avoid the escorts, while setting up a proper intercept, and you might even survive. Bottom line is your failing your mission to find buffs in time which is remarkable as you know the targets ahead of time. And your going to lose this FSO. I'd complain if I were you and start working for change as I will as my squad should be axis next fso
Vlkyrie1
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I'm not even going to respond. I'm sorry valk but you seem kinda off-base on this one.
But consider you don't have to hit anything until T=60, and you all were over target at T=30. Your own fault you were in such a rush.
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Krusty its obvoius you have no clue i shant say more
Vlkyrie1
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Valkyrie,
We have had many FSO's before you had you came around. There is never room for this type attitude with an event. The fact is this was a simple request from an indiviual on your team.
Insults aside by FSO standards the orders were basic & caused issues with some computer's out there. Frame two's Allied orders were hard to read & unclear.
I suggest adjusting your orders to allow maximum preformance for all involved & not catering to your systems specs.
I find you comments rude & un welcome. Take that for what it's worth but thats where I stand here.
MGD
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Oh yeah... Krusty does have a clue :)
MGD
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Let's just say.... had I been allied CO I'd have totally done it differently....
(*evil cackling laugh here*).
I know a thing or two about planning bombing missions on a large scale :t
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Please let this Die.
otherwise, I will have to send ROC and NEF your way for an intervention.
ROC and NEF are great guys, but have zero tolernce for this, and I don't blame them.
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No harm, no foul, Doobs. 'Tis all in good spirit, methinks.
I'm sure everybody realizes we want to keep things civil and friendly as much as possible. Right fellas?
EDIT: ^-- just treat that as rhetorical folks, let's just let this one "age" a bit. I'll do my part.
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Originally posted by doobs
Please let this Die.
otherwise, I will have to send ROC and NEF your way for an intervention.
ROC and NEF are great guys, but have zero tolernce for this, and I don't blame them.
:huh
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You all do realize, Kermit is a crossdresser, right?
Just wanted to point that out.
:aok
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Originally posted by REP0MAN
You all do realize, Kermit is a crossdresser, right?
Just wanted to point that out.
:aok
:huh <---this means you are retarded. :D
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YOU PEOPLE ARE UNBELIEVEABLE. Your trying to slant the event to the axis and its pretty damn clear. Secondly, I have been doing FSO since the beinging and have been flying online since 95 so your comment about not having been around is a flat out lie. Your the most dishonest bunch I have ever seen. We might as well just surrender if you axis fools have your way.
I won my frame and won it big, all had fun, so its clear you all haven't a clue what your talking about. I love this event, its one of the things I look foward to, but if you all get your way your going to ruin it.
Vlkyrie1
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If a debate cannot occur without the childish name calling and insults, then the debate is over.
Tirades and Immature Outbursts are not welcome in here, from anyone. Please don't take this any farther. This isn't the General Boards where the moderators have to come in here and babysit, we are supposed to be pro's around here. Act like it. If you think I'm talking about you, I probably am.
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Originally posted by Valkyrie
YOU PEOPLE ARE UN ******* BELIEVEABLE. Your trying to slant the event to the axis and its pretty damn clear. Secondly, I have been doing FSO since the beinging and have been flying online since 95 so your comment about not having been around is a flat out lie. Your the most dishonest bunch I have ever seen. We might as well just surrender if you axis fools have your way.
I won my frame and won it big, all had fun, so its clear you all haven't a clue what your talking about. I love this event, its one of the things I look foward but if you all get your way your going to ****** ruin it.
Vlkyrie1
The only person who controls the plane selections and allotments is me, vlkyrie, so I take this directly. I am the Admin CM and I made all the decisions about the plane-set and side balancing.
You referred, earlier, about how the LW had few aircraft to defend with. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were referring to Northern Italy in the fall of 1944. In that aspect, you are correct.
The biggest opponent the allies had were anti-aircraft and operational losses. Fighters weren't much of an opposition.
From the AH/FSO standpoint, setting up the axis to man legions of 88 flak batteries isn't feasible with the current allotment of maps ( although, the more I think about it.. it might be 'different' to see a frame with 100 5" gun positions manning the coast and then around the industrial complex ) So, if we are going to conduct operations in our Squad Operations environment, we must balance the playing field a bit and allow the LW to have a decent chance of beating back a horde of heavies.
The goal of this series was to provide a little education to the masses and expose them to a different theatre of the strategic bombing campaign. I hope to expand this into actual marshalling yard objects and Austria/Hungary geography, Po Valley, and the likes to more accurately portray the theatre later on. ( once I get the brand of Scotch that Dux prefers )
My job as Admin CM is to provide an entertaining and balanced event. Judging from the participation and scores, I'd say this one is pretty close.
Now if I could just get everybody to check their egos at the forum login screen, we could sit back and enjoy the war stories.
Have fun in Frame 3.
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Drone,
I can speak for all in the USMC. We have had a BLAST, both in the first frame (where we got hammered). And in the second frame ( where we hammered back ;) ).
Great event!
Great job!
WTG!
thank you
:aok
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All joking aside and respect intended.....
I believe that the current score and position sets up one he77 of a third frame.
I had many of the UNF pilots tell me that Frame 2 was their best FSO ever. I would have to agree that it was a lot of fun. (Until Krusty baited me for the 68 boys :furious )
I don't see the issue being that important the way the scores are currently sitting.
I really don't want to see good, veteran FSO guys, leave FSO over this. Please, can't we all just get along?
:aok
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Originally posted by REP0MAN
You all do realize, Kermit is a crossdresser, right?
Just wanted to point that out.
:aok
I'm going to need to borrow your sunday dress for tonight Rep0. You don't need to wash it.:D
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Remember Kermit, your hips are too wide.
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:rofl ^^^
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Originally posted by Valkyrie
You lw winers shouldn't even be here. By this point you were so desimated that you could barely field a squadron let alone and Air Force. And losing this many buffs is unsustainable. THe allies never lost his many aircraft during raids in any period.
Losing 40 % of a force is not fair to the allies period. Its not the LW's god given right to shoot down 100 planes a frame. THis game is so slanted to the defenders its not even funny. Only the LW winers complain about it.
This is more than fair and even a total disadvantage to the Allied side.
Vlkyrie1
I think the Schweinfurt raid came pretty close to those numbers. No it wouldnt happen alot, but it was possible. I dont want the axis to be able to shoot down every bomber either. But this was'nt the reason for the post. I just would like to see more separation in players so we all dont end up in one sector.
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good post filth that is why I am going to bunch the entire USAF in one box next frame,,,,,,,NOT
It's over for the AXIS stay home, watch Leno, you stand no chance
beware of the Penguin
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Don't miss understand I loved what was happening. Its just that things I think could go better. Numbers are great, its just that I would love more flexiablity to manipulate timing.
These buffs climb out at less than 1k a min. There just isn't enough time to get from ground level to alt and form up like I would like. My idea of a form up takes close to 20min to accoplish when you reach alt, because no one flies buffs in formation like they should. That is with high low and lead squadrons with correct 100ft alt splits slanted from high right to low left. Seeing this its impossible to make runs on target without drawing a straight line to target and flying full power all the way. Would be nice to get rid of the T+60 rule for attacking targets. I understand everyone wants action but this turns it into a pure fighter on fighter action with a few buffs tossed in for good measure. And though I would fly buffs if assigned I wouldn't under any circumstance request them until this issue is addressed.
When planning for this its rather frustraiting not being able to get any more than a follow the leader approach and that has been what is happening thus far.
I am rather attached to this region of the war and my comment about the Lw not being here related to that and you should note that it was a sarcastic comment about them not being here to discuss it. BTW if you read close my comment about side balancing side it was perfect and you couldn't do any better so here's to the cm team on that note.
So my complaint is more about the design of bombing actions like this one where we don't have an aerial spawn point, and really don't give the buffs a chance to make it on thier own.
And no disrepect to the bomber groups I have flown with, but none of them have run an operation like they should. Only times I have seen it done right where during Ruhr, and one operation I ran with the 56th back in November where we didn't lose anyone and killed a half a dozen FW's.
Who can I talk to to have some input in how these are designed. If the CM team would like a demostration of proper form up I would be happy to show you any time next week to prove just how long it really takes.
Vlkyrie1
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Originally posted by APDrone
I hope to expand this into actual marshalling yard objects and Austria/Hungary geography, Po Valley, and the likes to more accurately portray the theatre later on. ( once I get the brand of Scotch that Dux prefers )
Yikes... if you think the process is slow now, imagine what it'll be if you start sending me good scotch. :eek:
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Great lets give the LW radar and not tell them where we are going that would fix alot of issues.
Vlkyrie
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Val I'm sorry but I have bitten my tongue more than I want.
But your statement bomber groups have not run an operation they should. Go (&**^&*)yourself
We the JG44 as well as others have run amazing bomber missions.
Guess your better than everybody here.
We invited you to tag along with us in FSO many months ago in buffs, and all you did was mock and disparage us as failures and incompedent during the whole flight.
guess the logs lie, for we couldn't accomplish what we did, cause we and everybody else sucks so bad.
keep up with your great work of your better than all of us attitude
My apploigies to the FSO squads for this outburst, those that know me,know this isn't my style
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Originally posted by Valkyrie
Only times I have seen it done right where during Ruhr, and one operation I ran with the 56th back in November where we didn't lose anyone and killed a half a dozen FW's.
Vlkyrie1
If this is your goal, I don't understand how it is supposed to make things better. We all know that a good frame is one that is closely matched. Drone has done a good job so far with a win to both the Axis and Allies. I would just say that the Axis had to have everything go right to win this last frame, and it still felt like we took a beating. There is no reason to believe that the Allied side is disadvantaged in this setup so far. You yourself said you won big on your frame, so how is this setup slanted to the Axis? If either side needs help, it is not the Allies, and if you you think a good frame is where all the bombers survive and the Axis are wiped out, I am not sure you are considering the other side. Remember, these events are historically based, not historically accurate.
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Ok ok ok, I'll let Kermit wear my Sunday dress.....
Will you all quit this pee'in contest?!
BTW: TracerX, we need to go get a beer sometime, see'in you in AZ too.
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Doobs you must not read what I said. Its not that i complain about the results it just you and most everyone are a follow the leader in something like a trial formation.
My question is just how many buffs did you lose and did you do everything to prevent it. I don't think so. But thats fine with me. Talk to anyone who flew frame 2 with the 56th of Mighty eighth.
You were great to work with in Frame 1 and it did go better than it should have largly impart due to your squad.
Anyway I take buff driving seriously but no one else seems to, so I guess I'll just keep flying jugs.
I'm not here to run your group. I know what I want, and how I run my group and our ideas are differen't. You don't believe in formation flying and I do. I enjoy it and I think it helps get buffs home. My guys who didn't fly buffs even enjoyed the formation work.
If your going to jump every time someone says something about your group I don't want to see another post of yours ever.
Vlkyrie1
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TRacer you shouldn't lose more than 4 out of 36 buffs on a good run. 48 is a disaster.
Vlkyrie1
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Val my appoligies for my ouburst.
but again you are wrong, our flight of 17's were locked in tight, and please don't you ever assume how we fly, how the hell do ya think we made it to target.
My question is just how many buffs did you lose and did you do everything to prevent it. I don't think so. But thats fine with me. Talk to anyone who flew frame 2 with the 56th of Mighty eighth.
YES we did, did ya not see we had to fly threw some of the best squads here, as a BUFF group we had the most targets destroyed and most kills, guess you don't look ant the logs
You try flyin past the AK's the 68th the CHawks, FATE and USMC in bombers then talk to me.
And I about never jump on anybody, I'm as respectful as they come, bar none.
And when U have a valid point then come talk otherwise I don't want to hear U ever
But since You have all the answers guess I willl pull my squad from FSO as they are not worthy.
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I am getting way ahead of myself. I haven't seen it done like I do it so I assume it doesn't happen just by the results. It took our group, 56th, close to 20 min to form with an airstart so I assume it can't be done. Maybe I am wrong and I might be.
again my appologies, I am kinda short fuzed
vlkyrie
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Hmmm should I get in this or not? Tough question but those of you that know me....well here it goes.
Valkyrie, for someone who has been around as long as you say you have you sure do whine like a 12 year old noob.
Now as far as planning large scale bomber missions, I have had the job more times than I can count and many of those were for FSO events. Every one was a success. We hit the target in time and hit our targets hard.
Now you want to claim a victory for frame 1 of this event due to your planning but let me clue you in on a little FACT. The flight plan you gave us (JG44 in the B-17's) didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of reaching our primary target by T+60. I know because I flew it offline 3 times trying to figure out how to do it. The only reason the Allies won frame 1 was because Toadflack and myself took it upon ourselves to come up with a better plan than what you submitted. I personaly spent over 7 hours offline figuring out how to hit the target in time because you didn't want us to launch from anouther base. Had we followed your flight plan the Allies would have been penalized for not hitting the target in time and we would have flown through more fighters than we did, loosing more aircraft than we did.
I know Doobs sent you several e-mails concerning frame 1 based on the testing we did and from what I understand you didn't want to hear about it. Just so you know there was talk about just following your orders and taking the penalty hit to prove a point but we want to win so we did what we had to do.
You didn't plan a brilliant frame and win a victory. JG44 pulled you out of the fire and covered your butt for you so get off your high horse and start acting like a seasoned vet. Take constructive critizism for what it is.
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I'm done this is over. I planned the mission based upon times for climb and cruise and it shouldn't have been a problem. But wait we do have that T+60 rule that is un****** real. So whatever, having 7 hours puts you in the majority that have nothing better to do than run missions. Join the real world.
Vlkryie1
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Thank you, hornet33, one of my buff planners
and there are few better than hornet on buff flights.
without hornet and Toadkill I don't know what I would do.
a big to them
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I'm retired so yeah I have time to do stuff like that. What's your point? You didn't have or were unwilling to make the time to plan properly??
Great leadership there buddy. At least my guys KNOW if I plan something, I took the time to actually plan it right.
While we're on this subject, tell you what. I'm giving your squad a bombing mission since I have been asked by Doobs to plan the bomber missions for frame 3. I promise you'll have enough fuel and time to reach the target. We'll look at the logs afterwards and see if you can put your money where your mouth is. Your the expert so I expect massive damage of your target and light losses from your group.
See you in the air.
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Originally posted by Valkyrie
I'm done this is over. I planned the mission based upon times for climb and cruise and it shouldn't have been a problem. But wait we do have that T+60 rule that is un****** real. So whatever, having 7 hours puts you in the majority that have nothing better to do than run missions. Join the real world.
Vlkryie1
nice attacking a squaddie of mine for taking your plan to task, and since he found flaws in it your response get a real life, that is bush.
You should be glad by your accounts that we the JG44 run the mission ahead of time to see if it is feasible.
but your lateset rebuttle is GET A LIFE
so which is it? are we on spot or do we need to get a life
Think we should leave FSO since we are not worthy
yeaH WE SHOULD GO
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Whoa, there..... rein those horses back in a bit!
I think this is getting a little out of hand. Can't we... just... (no, I'm not going to say "just get along"!)... take a deep breath, step back, calm down, and get ready for frame 3?
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Originally posted by doobs
You try flyin past the AK's the 68th the CHawks, FATE and USMC in bombers then talk to me.
HEY!, now why are we LAST on that list?!?!?
;)
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We were the last out, that's why :aok
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Originally posted by doobs
Think we should leave FSO since we are not worthy
yeaH WE SHOULD GO
OK now, this is getting out of hand.
Doobs I assume you are kidding. (you better be)
I think you guys better take a brake from the Keyboard for a day or so.
I see a Skuzzy visit in this threads future.
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My question is simple. how is this"game" we play not a "life"?
We communicate with other people to accomplish a common goal. We see an electronic representation of another "person" and we react to what we see, hear, and in my case feel. where is this different from this "Real life" you talk about? What is different between a computer and a man? A man has "common sense" and the ability to think freely. But that is where the differences end. A computer runs by a series of electrical currents, as do a human's brain and nervous system. One could argue, in fact, that a highly programed, and adapted computer system could be more "human" than some humans.
You say "get a life". I say I've got one. And i chose this life for myself. this community is much like the "ideal empire", where if you dont like it, and all you can do is try to demean someone, then you can either come say it to our faces, or you can get out.
FSO has been going on for far longer than you've been in it, and will continue long after you leave. So I say it again, if you dont like how it works, and you dont like how it works, then go to the MA and HO/ram your brains out. Then whine like everyone else on 200.
I see no reason why this chian of events (you insulting the JG44), because we dont spend 20 minutes forming up in buffs, has even taken place. Clearly you need to grow up some, or go take some anger management classes.
Next time you plan an FSO event, dont just calculate the routes, run them. If you dont have the time to do that, then dont apply to be the CiC of a frame. This isnt something you can just throw together in 30 minutes, and make it look pretty by using illustrator and making it a PDF. I know for sure that when the JG44 plans a bombing run, one of us bomber guys is flying your route at least once. At least one of us fly every set of ordere recieved the day of, or before an FSO event. We take this seriously, and there are somethings that we just cant (as leaders) control (each individual pilot besides us). They might Disco, they might AFK and drop out of auto-level/climb while gone, their calibration might be bad, thus they only get 97% power and cant keep up. All the flaws are what makes us human, and not machine.
Now. It is late, and i must hit the hay.
FSO participants, see you in the Skies
NOTE: this is completely cool headed and not meant as a "flame" just showing that i got my squadies back, and wont stand to see us patronized.
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Originally posted by doobs
good post filth that is why I am going to bunch the entire USAF in one box next frame,,,,,,,NOT
It's over for the AXIS stay home, watch Leno, you stand no chance
beware of the Penguin
:O
Wow, doobs, ease up. The comments after this one are getting too angry. Learn to aurgue with facts. That goes for everyone else getting angry. (I'm going to continue to ride this pony so hold on (: )
:p
I was there in November's FSO mighty eigth. I've never been in a bombing mission like that before or since. In fact, I try to duplicate it everytime. Val did a great job on that mission. I think that also was an airstart. Maybe we should have airstarts for Bombers in FSO's. I'll never forget that bombing run.
I'm glad more people are recognizing that too many people in one area is a bad thing.
(I'm getting off my lil pony now. (: )
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I always knew I liked the JG44 guys, but probably didn't realise how much before reading this.:aok
and
The map is too small.
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my appoligies, alot of lem motlow there, look at the post times.
and sled look at the other post, believe you were listed first.
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Ok Ok...at ease.
I think what we have here is a difference of opinion, on how the FSO should be planned by a CO for that night. In many special events, COs plan to be sneaky and exploit the rules to gain an edge. Although I have usually not pursued this line of thought, its been done and is accepted by most as the way they are planned.
However, in an FSO, the idea isnt so much winning a frame by exploiting rules, or over-loading sectors. It should be about a balanced engagment where both sides have a chance, and everyone has fun in as realistic a setup as possible.
COs please think of that when making the orders. Spread the wealth. Make it so everyone has an opportunity for combat, without massing everyone in one lump.
Usually there are multiple targets. Attack all of them. If ever there is only one target, which is rare, attack in waves, at different alts and arrival times at target. I think most people determine a good fso, by the combat experience (not one sided, rather evenly distributed across the map), not whether they won or not. The best fsos are the close ones.
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:mad: Biting tongue. :O :O
doobs, Toad, Hornet - glad you guys said what you did, it was needed.
I cannot understand why this guy's attitude is tolerated for FSO. Maybe someone should let him try doing CM setup and all that stuff for an entire FSO and see how big of a clusterfart it turns into.
t
CMs, SEA staff, FSO planners and attendees, you all are doing an outstanding job with a difficult task - FSO ROCKS.
I am truly sorry you have to deal with ppl like our friend Valkyrie. Somone needs to post some screenies of the boyd in action methinks...
Maybe Valk could be kind and critique our junky buff flying?
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Originally posted by FiLtH
However, in an FSO, the idea isnt so much winning a frame by exploiting rules, or over-loading sectors. It should be about a balanced engagment where both sides have a chance, and everyone has fun in as realistic a setup as possible.
Exactly!! This is what really needs to be looked at and I am glad Filth said something. I said something before about not having the system to handle that kind of FPS, but I guess I don't know crap about these large scale things. If something like filling an entire sector is how it needs to be done I guess that is how 'they' need then.... I might still take part because the my squad still will.
But I guess that is the only way some people can win.... :rolleyes:
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Toad and Hornet, thanks for taking the time to run mock flights to checks for flaws in missions. I would hope that the mission planners would take your findings with an open mind.
jeb
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Who's JG/44 ?
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Originally posted by doobs
......sled look at the other post, believe you were listed first.
You know I was just trying to "lighten" the post, right?
;)
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of course, but I know how sensitive marines can get:D
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Originally posted by doobs
of course, but I know how sensitive marines can get:D
Yeah we've seen Knuckels get all upset about nothing and start crying like a baby. Then we start getting the "I love you guys" thing going. Sheesh, must be all that time they spend around those Navy guys:lol
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To me in my mind planning frame 1 I didn't think buffs should have to make target by t+60. I thought my fighters should have been able to drop on a target and that would have been good enough. The inital buff hit was to take place at T+37 on the fuel, the next on the radar. I really didn't think about how overloaded the sector would be except for the fact that my fighter sweep was to hit that area and have it cleared by the time the buffs were due in.
The buffs were suppose to fly together so that my escorts could wipe out 1 Lw force with at least a 2-1 advantage. Then go on with a large advantage to deal with the second group of Lw over the radar.
Ideally no fighters would have seen buff though that would be unreasonable. I did not even consider how frame rates would drop. I mearly considered wining. Put my guys were the bad guys were so that we could have a big showdown before the buffs came through. I would have though all would have been happy, with that.
Yes the route for JG44 was long but I thought by having fighters drop an egg early I would have bought the T+60 barrier and then hit that target at about t+70. In my mind that satifiyed the rules and everyone should have had a fight. I in fact wanted a total victory with all the LW going down, but it never works out as planned.
Moral of this story was I was merely looking to cream the LW with big number at the point of attack then running that point through the entire LW.
best wishes,
Vlkyrie1
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I'll refrain from commenting on the *******es above. But capser I would love to have an opertunity to teach bomber formation flying to anyone that would listen. losing 8 buffs to friendly fire shouldn't happen.
My only aim is to increase the historical accuracy of FSO. These posts shouldn't be taken in contexts of an attack on people, that not what this is about. If you read the posts as negative about any group that just flat isn't the case though I'm sure this is all falling on pittful deaf ears.
Everything about these events and the people who put them on is first class, but there are always things that could be changed to make improvements and I think they should be looked at. Not brushed aside by closed minded people who are not willing to put time in.
As stated earlier I would love to be apart of designing these if someone would just show me where to sign on the doted line.
Vlkyire
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And casper are you aware of what a bomber box looks like? Send easyscore an email he has wonderful diagrams of them, I had them ages ago but have missplaced them, I dont think they made the jump to my new machine. Real helpful those diagrams are. As for that bomber ride tell me when and where I love that kind of work, but being XO of a fighter group I don't get to do alot of it as of late. I'll join the lead ship and direct the formation from there. If you could give me the roster head of time I would be happy to assign positions in the box and help get peole in position before going into bad guy land.
The key is puting the squadrons together and working that formation as they can rotate to hold position based upon which direction the turn goes. Much like a finger four.
Vlkyrie1
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Valkyrie
You can stop flogging this horse anytime.
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I'm tired of being critized by a bunch of Lame bellybutton monkeys who didn't know, understand or care what they were doing. I offered my help and have been bashed 7 ways to sunday.
Vlkryie1
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Hey Sled,
How is that Global warming in alaska?
(http://www.spams-ukwildcatbasketball.com/banana.sml.gif)
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Originally posted by doobs
Hey Sled,
How is that Global warming in alaska?
(http://www.spams-ukwildcatbasketball.com/banana.sml.gif)
Not nearly damn fast enough. But I keep my doors open and my heater on hoping it will help.
:D
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Originally posted by Valkyrie
I'm tired of being critized by a bunch of Lame bellybutton monkeys who didn't know, understand or care what they were doing. I offered my help and have been bashed 7 ways to sunday.
Vlkryie1
OK,
1. I'm not bashing you (although others are) I'm suggesting you give it a rest.
2. Any "bashing" you are taking, you are bringing on yourself.
3. In a small way you have "offered help", In a LARGE way you are trying to shove your "help" down every-ones throats.
4. You can draw more flies with honey, than you can with vinegar.
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Originally posted by Valkyrie
I'm tired of being critized by a bunch of Lame bellybutton monkeys who didn't know, understand or care what they were doing. I offered my help and have been bashed 7 ways to sunday.
Vlkryie1
But...but....but, it was these same "lame bellybutton monkeys" that actually did care enough to fly the routes offline, understood that your plan was flawed, and knew how to fix it so we wouldn't take a penalty hit.
Your welcome.
I'm out.
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Hornet :aok
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Val, your attitude needs a check in rehab dude. Your obviuosly stressed out over this my god man dont blow a vessel its only a game. Wait a min for some of you its like real life yall think you were there dicussuing maps fortifications bombing tactics and so on. Val JG 44 my squad in my humble opinoin is one of the best flying squadrons around. We do more in five mins then you do before you get out of bed. But check this you wont see me in gameland any time soon I am out serving my country. But know this the men of JG44 we are a tight knit brotherhood you pick on one you get us all. Val advice play the game drink a beer take a valium whatever have fun knock off the attacks.
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Army, and all our serving men and women.
Val, the problem with training to form up in a proper box, is that the FSO events arent going to be lengthened to allow for a 20minute form up, now we might get an air start once and a while. But we still would have to enter NME territory at low altitude, and im afraid that is more of a disadvantage than a proper box is an advantage.
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"We do more in five mins then you do before you get out of bed." -army377
I do lots of stuff before I get out of bed, like wake up, open my eyes, the usual stuff. You must do a ton of things in those 5 minutes of yours to beat that.:lol
FYI, I'm just joking with ya ;)
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
FYI, I'm just joking with ya ;)
pthh.... we all know your just a flaming troll :p
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1730/trolldm6.jpg)
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:confused:
Uhh.... no... Look at his avatar.
He's a muppet, not a troll! :huh
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Originally posted by Valkyrie
And casper are you aware of what a bomber box looks like?
Yes I am, thanks.
As stated above by others, we 'lame bellybutton monkeys' do as close to a 'real' box in the virtual skies as possible in order to successfully carry out the assigned mission within the parameters of the game and the rules.
While this may mean we lose what you think is an obscene number of buffs in the process, compared to what you opine would be lost if said formation was a flying a 'real box', it's better than taking the nasty penalties that would come from not carrying out the mission within the confines of the rules.
Your opinion about losses in a 'real box' vs. losses in a tight but not 'real box' formation might be correct. But I'm not sure it can be proven since we can't exactly go back in time and fly that frame over again. True, you may have experienced much smaller losses in another frame when you approved of the formation, but that may have been due to many other factors not stated here.
You may feel attacked, but as it was stated above, it was brought on via instigation that you provided whether you knew it or not.
I hope we can put all of this behind us and move on for the sanity of future FSOs.
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Originally posted by Krusty
:confused:
Uhh.... no... Look at his avatar.
He's a muppet, not a troll! :huh
Well forgive me then, because i didnt have the heart to put a Kermit anywhere near a fire. Hes a brother amphibian, and that would just be betrayal.
Believe me that troll photo wasnt photoshoped, I actually took a picture on my digital camera :O .... ok maybe not, but some photos out that the media try to pass off on us are almost that clearly photoshoped.
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(*backs aways slowly from the grown man that owns a troll doll*)