Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Softail on March 10, 2007, 11:58:38 AM
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Ok, thought I was doing pretty well in FT (Orange) last night. Since there were a ton of LA's in the air...I decided to fly one for a bit. (I also flew a Spit IX and the Typhoon too, So no LaLa jokes. ;-) ).
I'm dropping in on this Yak-9T low on the deck....when I get jumped by a Spit VIII. This Spit VIII made a 90 degree left turn onto my 6 at 380-400 mph and was all over me. I tried a quick loop with a hard rudder left kick...that only got me in deeper trouble. The Spit just rolled inside my loop and nosed down on me. I began to think "Dumb move on my part." Now the Spit VII is only 400 out on my 6!.
I am already on the deck, with a Spit VIII in tow that is blasting away at me. I can't out turn it or out climb it so I use the only thing I got left. I start mowing the lawn with the prop. Bob, weave and dodge through the trees trees until the Spit is 1.2K behind me and fading.
I'm coming to a hill side....so I figure I have the distance and speed I will just take it up and over the top. I figured that the Spit VIII wouldn't follow from up from 1.5 - 2K out. Wrong....I go vertical, so does the spit.
So I'm at that top of my climb I ease the nose over at about 90 MPH...look up (aka straight down) and here comes the SpitVIII...still climbing and 1K below me... I figure its Ropin time. I'm thinking It cant have the E to get to me and it should fall away by the time I finish my half loop.
I chop throttle and pull over the top....I figure this Spit will nose over soon. Negative. It s hanging on the prop and I am coming straight down at 200MPH. I can see the bottom of its wings (yes...just barely..but those cooling ports are on the bottom of the wing) then tracers fly by my canopy. I pull the trigger and blow its wing off. As I fly by ( a mere 4 feet at best) I hear CLANG Collision. I figure I hit debris....the Spit falls out of the sky and the message on 200 reads: Erica: LAME.
Apparently, this is a HO in his/her mind.
So I reviewed the film. Closely, frame by frame. I have posted it here:
http://www.geocities.com/softail_Rider01/ERICA_Lameness.zip
Take a look. Am I lame with this manuever or should the Spit maybe not have put itself in that postion?
From what I see:
1: The spit did not have the E to climb up to me effectively.
2: As I came down the Spit VIII fired first when it had a brief moment of a solution. So the HO arguement looses a lot of credibility.
3: I didn't fire from 600 out as was claimed by Spit Driver it was more like 300 out. (My gun convergence is 275)
2: At 53MPH at the top of its climb...it is "technically" STALLED what can you do in a Spit VIII Nose to the sky at 53MPH?
3. The Spit driver feels that I shouldn't shoot unless the the "Roped" plane is "stalled" aka...falling away or in a flat spin... Nose up means No.
I know I probably should have made my climb more vertical and waited another 15 seconds to do this move. So My timing could have been better...but to be honest...I though I'd just see the Spit flat turn blow me...not follow me. So is this a Lame move or a Rope that could have been timed better?
Softail.
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It was the only thing to do with the way the fight went. If it was "lame", then she didn't "make you fight the way she wanted you too".
After watching the film, she fired first. She tried following you up, and you held better E.
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You were supposed to keep going straight so she could shoot you. Therefore, yes, turning back and killing her was lame.
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Sounds like a rope to me (*shrug*).
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
You were supposed to keep going straight so she could shoot you. Therefore, yes, turning back and killing her was lame.
:lol
Alot of people feel that way.
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So many comments, so little time.
Just another one of those "never my fault" pilots.
Reminds me of the Spit VIII I was trailing, reversed and de-winged to recieve similar comments. Funnily enough, same squad as your kill.
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All I see are a bunch of church ladies in here, but no ho's.
:p
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Yes, how dare you use your superior speed and climbing ability to put yourself in a tactically better position, and the nerve of converting that postition to your advantage and getting the kill on no-skill whiner.
You should also be castrated for managing to kill her without using a 5-second burst and blowing 3/4 of your ammo, you are obviously using an aimbot.
:rofl
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Kermit, that rates only a 1 out of 10, sorry, not worth a good groan :)
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All I saw was a good kill.
RTR
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All erica does is whine, shes one of the ones I immediately squelch as soon as I see her on the buffer or hear on Vox.
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Now now, let's not go bashing somebody who may not even have a forum account to reply with. Last time I recall she really liked the La5, and I shot her down a few times in a row in a p47, but she was friendly about, and didn't make any comments.
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She must not have discovered 200 or PMing at that point.
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Ease up a bit, don't want to get locked do we? No at the time we were conversing on 200 also. I ran into her a few times in the past week or so (somebody shooting her down near me), and never saw anything on 200 from her either. I guess everybody has a mood now and then, but doesn't need to have us get this thread locked :aok
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Now the Spit VII is only 400 out on my 6!.
At this point you should have been dead.
You did the right and only thing available at the time.
All erica does is whine, shes one of the ones I immediately squelch as soon as I see her on the buffer or hear on Vox.
I second that ... I squelch her too ... she tries to talk the smack .. for what reasons I don't understand ... she needs to get a little better before going down that road.
She must not have discovered 200 or PMing at that point.
Oh she knows 200 ... I can vouch for that.
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Good kill. The spit had options, and didn't take them. :aok
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
All I see are a bunch of church ladies in here, but no ho's.
:p
Weeeeeelllll, isnt that special.
(http://www.getreligion.org/wp-content/photos/church_lady.jpg)
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"Lame"? That's all that was said? You reviewed the film frame by frame and created an entire thread because someone said "Lame" on 200?....(shakes head). You seem to have a legit victory, so why do you feel the need justify your actions? I think it's time for your daily affirmation...look in the mirror and say "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and darn it people like me"
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Originally posted by lagger86
"Lame"? That's all that was said? You reviewed the film frame by frame and created an entire thread because someone said "Lame" on 200?....(shakes head). You seem to have a legit victory, so why do you feel the need justify your actions? I think it's time for your daily affirmation...look in the mirror and say "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and darn it people like me"
:rofl
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Well I decided to leave the replies after I asked why that move was lame.
It didn't provide any substance that was outside the action that was called into question so I left it out.
As for being dead at 400 out with a Spit VIII on my 6. Yes...I figured I was going to be worm food very quickly. I was surprised when I pulled up out of the trees (yes...I was below tree level) that I wasnt dead.
I'm trying to improve so when a move gets called into question, I tend to give it some consideration and review. Thats all.
Sounds like the concensus is that the move was "acceptable within the given parameters."
Thanks.
Softail.
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The winner thinks its a rope, the deceased believes it to be a HO.
But the only way to settle the issue once and for all in on Jerry Springer.
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sound like a Rope-a-ho to me.
Balsy
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A gentleman always asks a lady first before shooting......
:O :rolleyes: :O
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I had the exact same thing happen to me except I was the one following.
The other guy was attacking a base in a 110 and I was in a Ki-84 I think.
He went vertical and I followed him up, as he made his turn and came back down I plastered his left engine. After a chase across the base and a few more pop shots at him from 1k out he ran into the mountain trying to go over it.
so I get a PM..
from oDallaso: You got no game noob
Now keep in mind this was after he had already HO'ed me while I was chasing one of his buddies.
:rofl
These guys that get pissed off and have to send PM's crak me up.
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I think oDallaso is an HTC employee in shades.
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Quick question, why chop the throttle at the top?
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I think oDallaso is an HTC employee in shades.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Oh,...Nice kill softail. :aok
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Originally posted by morfiend
A gentleman always asks a lady first before shooting......
:O :rolleyes: :O
I must not be a gentleman then, If im gonna shoot her in the face I prefer to let it be a surprise:t
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1) There is no "lame" shot...just lame pilots. There are alot of guys I will avoid a face shot with in a 1 on 1....however if "it" flies in front of your gunsight you have every right to shoot it. After all the guns only cover less then 1 degree of arc out of 360 {no clue how you factor 3D in}....
2) There is no "lame" if the other guy (or gal) is 400 out and fails to kill you. Regardless of the tactic a FQ shot is almost inevitable for the "target" to win.....
3) there is no "lame" anytime you follow up someone on a rope....it's not lame if you blast them or if they blast you....kind of like thunderdome....two go up and one comes down.....in pieces.
4) there is no lame if the other guy is in a spit 8 {or 16}
5) there is no lame if the other guy is in a la-7
6) If one guy is in a la-7 and the other is in a spit 8....it was lame before either one of you fired a shot:D
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Originally posted by humble
6) If one guy is in a la-7 and the other is in a spit 8....it was lame before either one of you fired a shot:D
Signature material!!
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
I think oDallaso is an HTC employee in shades.
lol that's funny if true
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I didn't even have to finish reading the post. Anyone who leaves their ride hanging on the prop is already dead. Sounds like lame flying on the Spit's part to me.
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Women drivers.
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Yer both HO dweebs
A successful rope would have been decided when you lifted your nose, did you know then? no. you can't shout "rope" just because you're above the target, it's a deliberate move you have to set up from go. A successful roper sees the victim flailing with zero energy just when he dives back in, she still had vertical lift. Nothing but a pure HO merge by both of you.
I concur with erica. lame. but, by both parties.
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How many bloody times do I have to say it.
If its NOT nose to to bloody nose from 3k out guns fireing its NOT a bloody HO.
Anything else is a forward quarter shot in a manuver fight and PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE! IF they didn't want to get shot in the face they shouldn't have followed you up.
Its been that way since beta, its always going to be that way. Get your terminology right and quit whining.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Quick question, why chop the throttle at the top?
Has something to do with slowing the airflow over the wings, cut lift totally out of the equation for a second, as to make you just kind of float.
Try it out, you will notice the stall is much less violent and you can hang that extra couple seconds.
fun stuff.
:aok
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Someone has some serious insecurity issues.
When one of you get the chance call him a lag/warper on 200 after you kill him and we will probably be treated to a thorough breakdown and report on his internet connection and how a packet gets from his ISP to his home.
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I don't think that is what his post is about. I'm looking at it as a common occurrence in the world of ACM and a good question.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
If its NOT nose to to bloody nose from 3k out guns fireing its NOT a bloody HO.
:rofl :rofl :aok And I thought a Ho was a tool to deal with weeds in my garden
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Originally posted by Dadano
Has something to do with slowing the airflow over the wings, cut lift totally out of the equation for a second, as to make you just kind of float.
Try it out, you will notice the stall is much less violent and you can hang that extra couple seconds.
fun stuff.
:aok
Torque as well. In some aircraft torque can help you do an immelman at the top, in others it can get you into a flat spin as you stall over.
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
Quick question, why chop the throttle at the top?
Sometimes I will just to stretch things out and "float" over the top just to make sure I've set the hook on the bogie really good then lower a notch of flaps to swing my nose down and then increase power as I dive.
ack-ack
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I watched the video and she fired first you were only defending yourself. If she didn't want to get shot down she shouldn't of followed you.
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Sounds like a rope to me. Although Im not a fan of ropes and its usually HP of the plane winning the fight, many people fly that way. But, even if it was a HO, people do that too. Alot of people hate losing in here. Some deal with it better than others.
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Ack's got it right.
If anyone try's driving up my tailpipe and i have anything to do or say,then your gonna get a blast of hot lead in the face.
Dont let someone who messed up make you second guess yourself.
"EHY!, im alive..so #$%^ YOU buddy!!"
Thats right, winners never whine. "only time winners whine is if some other winner gets paid more per game than your team pays you,remember that."
only LOOOOOOOOZEEEEERS WHINE!
Period. :aok
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Originally posted by humble
4) there is no lame if the other guy is in a spit 8 {or 16}
5) there is no lame if the other guy is in a la-7
6) If one guy is in a la-7 and the other is in a spit 8....it was lame before either one of you fired a shot:D
:rofl :aok
TRUE
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Originally posted by Ghosth
How many bloody times do I have to say it.
If its NOT nose to to bloody nose from 3k out guns fireing its NOT a bloody HO.
Say it a thousand times, it'll still be wrong.
Both firing proves head-on. Range to target isn't relevant.
zero defelection, isn't deflection.
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Just because both can get guns on in a turn fight doesn't make it a HO.
Its nose to nose from 3k out or further, no attempt at acm, flying or skill that makes it a HO. Its "playing chicken" with no skill needed that makes it a cheap tactic. Its been that way since beta and its going to stay that way.
Wake up & smell the coffee.
If your in a turn fight its not a HO, its a forward quarter shot in a maneuver fight.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Just because both can get guns on in a turn fight doesn't make it a HO.
Its nose to nose from 3k out or further, no attempt at acm, flying or skill that makes it a HO. Its "playing chicken" with no skill needed that makes it a cheap tactic. Its been that way since beta and its going to stay that way.
Wake up & smell the coffee.
If your in a turn fight its not a HO, its a forward quarter shot in a maneuver fight.
If I'm in an inferior E position or the other plane just completely outclasses me, I'll take the H.O everytime.
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I really doubt very much that oDALLASo is an HTC shade.
I can't imagine an HTC employee voxxing a "nasty" and then leaving the arena because they were shot down by a faster plane after failing to escape after their wingman was shot down (while they were engaged with a low enemy two on one. While I don't know the guys at HTC personally, in my past experience you could always count on the primaries at the sim companies as being class acts. To most of us, it's a game or perhaps a simulation - to them, it's their dream.
People tend not to cheapen their dreams.
Besides which, if they are anything like the Rats or some of the original IEN'ers, they are in a league where a mere mortal pilot like myself will never get a touch on them.
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Just because both can get guns on in a turn fight doesn't make it a HO.
Its nose to nose from 3k out or further, no attempt at acm, flying or skill that makes it a HO. Its "playing chicken" with no skill needed that makes it a cheap tactic. Its been that way since beta and its going to stay that way.
Wake up & smell the coffee.
If your in a turn fight its not a HO, its a forward quarter shot in a maneuver fight.
We're watching different films.
I didn't see a turn fight, I saw a plane go straight up when he couldn't run anymore and then dive from d1.2 headon to the spit that was climbing headon to him. both fired together, near collision even. Sure looked like playing chicken to me.
Forward quarter, deflection, you keep using these terms to describe two planes intentionally direct nose to nose firing at each other. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.
Not a rope in my book, not acm worthy to me. Both were looking for nose from go. But, then, I don't know what you're teaching in the TA these days either.
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It's not her fault. She was taught that the only way you lose is when someone cheats or pulls a "lame" maneuver.