Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: eskimo2 on March 12, 2007, 08:16:40 PM
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An Ebay Study on Vehicle Make Longevity & Durability
(Or why Lincolns are 25 times better than Cadillacs)
I’ve been used car shopping lately, so I’ve been paying attention to older cars and how much life they have left in them. I decided it would be interesting and perhaps valuable to compare cars listed on Ebay based on the percentage that have over 200,000 miles on them. 200 K seems like a good indicator of longevity that many cars are capable of hitting and yet still maintaining some value. My method was simple: Ebay shows the total number of cars per make at the top of the page during a search. After discounting the ridiculous mileage (such as 111,111,111 or 1,000,000 even) I counted the number of cars listed with 200,000 miles or more. A little division yielded the percentage of cars per make with over 200,000 miles. I predicted Mercedes, Volvo and Toyota would make the top three. Volvo let me down; I did such a study once many years ago and Volvo stood out significantly above all other makes. I’ve personally owned eight old Volvos and their mileage have ranged from 150,000 to 350,000. Toyota and Mercedes did very well. Lincoln and GMC surprised me; even though I drive my father-in-law’s Lincoln regularly I never have thought of it as a durable car. I have to give my father-in-law credit; his other car is a Toyota: smart man.
The results are listed in the table below; only makes with over 250 cars listed on Ebay were compared. * indicates oodles of cars with ridiculous mileage.
(http://hallbuzz.com/images/2007/mar/ebay_study.GIF)
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why would you want to buy a run out vehicle for?
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but you only list cars that are for sale, what if a car has over 200,000 miles and is so good that the owner doesn't want to sell it?
also does not account for how many were built.
that will change your numbers.
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I don't see Saturn on the list? :confused:
Only one explanation -- no one wants to give one up. :lol
Had 246K miles on my 1995 Saturn. It ran great up until the cooling fan for the radiator decided to crap out while I was stuck in construction traffic on a bridge during the hottest day of the year. :furious One cracked head and warped block later . . . the poor thing is now in a junkyard. :cry
Not that I am sentimental or anything.
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Originally posted by storch
why would you want to buy a run out vehicle for?
You’re poor and in the market to buy a big old “luxury car” that you want to last 3 or 4 years. You find a Lincoln and a Cadillac each with 150,000 miles on them. Based on this study, which one would be the safer bet?
Why do people buy “run-out-vehicles”? Because they are cheap and I is poor. The last two Volvo’s I bought before my current one cost $850 and 800. I/we drove both of them for 8 years.
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Originally posted by john9001
but you only list cars that are for sale, what if a car has over 200,000 miles and is so good that the owner doesn't want to sell it?
also does not account for how many were built.
that will change your numbers.
Yea, this is far from exact and is only one indicator. I’d like to see stats from insurance companies or the DMV that show average mileage per. Cars for sale provide a reasonable indicator; far from complete but worthy of consideration. Generally, however, each make of cars have some loyal owners who buy a new car and drive it till its ready for the junk yard. Each make also has buyers who buy a new one every year or two. Roughly, it evens out.
It doesn’t matter how many were built, this is a percentage thing.
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Originally posted by E25280
I don't see Saturn on the list? :confused:
Too few; only 165 listed: none with over 200K.
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Also consider the owner. I knew people that could drive a Mercedes into in early grave at 50k but others that took care of their cars (no matter what the make) and had them last 200k+ miles. The make does have something with longevity but IMHO the owner maintenance practices is far more important than the make.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Also consider the owner. I knew people that could drive a Mercedes into in early grave at 50k but others that took care of their cars (no matter what the make) and had them last 200k+ miles. The make does have something with longevity but IMHO the owner maintenance practices is far more important than the make.
The only Mercedes I ever owned was a 1965 190 Diesel. I bought it from the original owners with 500K on it!
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Not surprised. Those older M-B diesels were/are pretty much bullet proof if taken care of properly. We had plenty at my old shop over 200k with original owners still driving them.
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Originally posted by storch
why would you want to buy a run out vehicle for?
Storch might also look at a medical study and say "What would I want with medicated lab mice?" or look at a history book and say "Why should I care about a bunch of dead people?"
:D
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valid point eskimo, provided you can maintain them yourself. the cost for repair on a run out vehicle is comparable to purchasing new unless you can perform the lion's share of the work yourself. typically I buy a new car and drive it into the ground. I usually pay cash for vehicles, this current one is the only car note I have had in 20+ years. for me it is far more cost effective to buy the brand new car outright and know it's maintenance than to potentially buy someone else's headache. but if that is your solution then by all means have at it and your approach is therefore logical.
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Originally posted by DiabloTX
Also consider the owner. I knew people that could drive a Mercedes into in early grave at 50k but others that took care of their cars (no matter what the make) and had them last 200k+ miles. The make does have something with longevity but IMHO the owner maintenance practices is far more important than the make.
Don't forget to consider the owner's age.
A cadillac from an old person might have 100k miles on it, but it's never been above 30 mph on the high way.
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I have over 537000 miles on my Volvo. It's just broken in now.
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Originally posted by storch
valid point eskimo, provided you can maintain them yourself. the cost for repair on a run out vehicle is comparable to purchasing new unless you can perform the lion's share of the work yourself.
heh.. some how I don't think maintenance would be a big problem for some one who has owned and maintained a small fleet of Fiats
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Originally posted by Maverick
I have over 537000 miles on my Volvo. It's just broken in now.
What model and year?
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Originally posted by Maverick
I have over 537000 miles on my Volvo. It's just broken in now.
The life expectancy from the Volvo Factory (of the older boxy ones) is 17.5 years. The newer ones probably will last 10-12, but not 17.5.
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Kinda funny.. I have cars that range from 55 years old to 35 years old. I really don't know much about newer cars and have maybe driven a non V8 front wheel drive car 3 times in my life and hated the experiance.
I had to ask my son what to buy when I needed a newer car with 4 doors to get the grand daughter around in...
He is a mechanic and he also moonlighted as a limo driver for a while a few years back... he told me to get a Lincoln town car because they drove em to death and had almost no problems.
I bought a used one and have put 50k on it with no problems at all.. it sits most of the time but gets out on vacations or loaned out... the thing gets 23 mpg and handles pretty decent.
It rides better than any car I have ever been in and everyone really likes the car... Lots of room... 2 body trunk.. satalite radio.. boring as crap to drive but will take corners.
lazs
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Ford owns Volvo now, so it's not going to be as good as it use to be.
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Originally posted by Maverick
I have over 537000 miles on my Volvo. It's just broken in now.
360k+ on my Volvo dogmobile, it's an '89 and I still drive it daily.
The thing is a tank.
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the depositing grounds for airline limos and car services, probably skew the lincoln data a bit.
geography and model years would be interesting, comparing a 200k minnesota to a california car for instance.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Don't forget to consider the owner's age.
A cadillac from an old person might have 100k miles on it, but it's never been above 30 mph on the high way.
So...what do you consider OLD?
Not that I'm testy about the subject or anything like that...
Mark
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Originally posted by eskimo2
What model and year?
It's a 2001 (early production) Volvo 660 2 door. I'm the second owner.
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We had a 1980 Mercadies 240D - put about 40,000 miles on it and sold it in 87 to my grand father. Grandpa had it repainted and pimped it - then he died in 1993. The car then went to a Marine uncle of mine for a few years, and then finally to his sister. The car only has 55,000 on it - but holy **** does it vibrate when that engine goes.
Bullet proof - hell yes.
Wolf
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Originally posted by Maverick
I have over 537000 miles on my Vulva. It's just broken in now.
Wow! no longer a virgin, are ya? :aok
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
Wow! no longer a virgin, are ya? :aok
:rofl
That comment from the penultimate post "potato"?!?!?!?!?!
:p
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Originally posted by Maverick
It's a 2001 (early production) Volvo 660 2 door. I'm the second owner.
Your car has more miles than I’ve driven in my life and I’ve been driving for 25 years. Your car has been averaging almost 9 mph (24-7) since it was built; amazing.
How about this though:
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Irv Gordon's Volvo P1800 Marks 40 Year Anniversary of Purchase
Forty years ago this June 30, the Beatles were completing their "Revolver" album. Mike Tyson was born in Brooklyn. Los Angeles Dodger Sandy Koufax was halfway through pitching his final and finest season.
And Irv Gordon was in a neighborhood Volvo dealership purchasing a cherry red Volvo P1800 for $4,150, replacing a new car he had recently purchased from another manufacturer that broke down on his drive home from the dealership.
"It was far and away the best $4,150 I've ever spent," said Gordon, a Long Island native and resident who has since driven the car almost 2.5 million miles, a world record.
Gordon, who today is a 64-year-old retired science teacher, began racking up the miles almost immediately. He drove the car for the same reasons most people do: to drive back and forth to work (a 125-mile daily round-trip to his job), for fun and for everyday activities. His long commute and his passion for driving caused him to log his first 250,000 miles in less than five years. The engine never failed and the car never required extensive repairs. Gordon lived two blocks from the ocean and drove through salt and snow each winter, but the body never rusted. So he kept driving his car.
Gordon hit 500,000 miles in the late '70s. He celebrated his one-millionth mile in 1987, driving a loop around the Tavern on the Green in New York's Central Park. He retired nine years later and took a part-time job for five years as a quality control technician and service writer at a Volvo dealership. With more time on his hands, he made driving his pastime.
In the mid '90s, The Guinness Book of World Records certified his Volvo for most miles driven by a single owner in a non-commercial vehicle. In March 2002 at a star-studded celebration fitting for New York, he turned his 2 millionth mile driving through Times Square.
Gordon would drive to Cincinnati for coffee, to Denver for lunch, or to Montreal for dinner. He'd drive to Volvo dealerships and car clubs to meet other Volvo lovers. He drove to Mexico. He put his car on a barge and sent it to Europe. He drove to Holland. He drove to Germany. While in Sweden, he drove to Volvo's headquarters to see where his P1800 was born.
He drove through big cities at night and spent afternoons in small town coffee shops. He made friends throughout the nation. He became an icon for resiliency and passion for the road. He met Matt Lauer. He hung out with Jon Stewart. He talked cars with Jay Leno.
And, 40 years after Gordon took the keys, the car has the same engine, same radio, same axles, same transmission and of course, the same driver. He is the only person who has ever driven his P1800.
"If you would have told me 40 years ago I'd still be driving this beautiful car, and that I would have driven these many miles, I would have told you 'good,'" Gordon said. "For one thing, the car just felt right from the beginning. And, what a beautiful country this is; I'm so glad I've had the time and opportunity to take so much of it in."
Gordon plans to mark his car's 40th birthday doing pretty much what he's done with the car every day the past 40 years.
"I'm going to drive down to my favorite coffee shop, have a decaf and chat with my neighbors," he said. "Who knows? Maybe I'll drive up to Montauk that day. Maybe not."
Gordon's odometer currently reads about 2.45 million miles. When he hits 2.48 million around August, he'll be at 4 million kilometers. Then, some time in September or October, likely on some blue highway in the heartland, he'll turn 2.5 million. And, as for what he'll do next?
"I'll keep on driving," Gordon said, "but whether I drive three million miles is more up to me than it is the car. The car's parts may be able to take it, but I'm not so sure about my own."
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Originally posted by Xargos
Ford owns Volvo now, so it's not going to be as good as it use to be.
:( Yea, I wonder how much they’ve messed things up.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Kinda funny.. I have cars that range from 55 years old to 35 years old. I really don't know much about newer cars and have maybe driven a non V8 front wheel drive car 3 times in my life and hated the experiance.
I had to ask my son what to buy when I needed a newer car with 4 doors to get the grand daughter around in...
He is a mechanic and he also moonlighted as a limo driver for a while a few years back... he told me to get a Lincoln town car because they drove em to death and had almost no problems.
I bought a used one and have put 50k on it with no problems at all.. it sits most of the time but gets out on vacations or loaned out... the thing gets 23 mpg and handles pretty decent.
It rides better than any car I have ever been in and everyone really likes the car... Lots of room... 2 body trunk.. satalite radio.. boring as crap to drive but will take corners.
lazs
I love my father-in-law’s Town Car and drive it at least once a week; my wife drives it almost daily. It drives great and is very comfortable. It’s a 93 with about 96,000 miles on it. It’s far from a lemon but over the years has needed more repairs than my Volvo or my Father-in-law’s Toyota. I think the biggest problem is Ohio corrosion; the roads are salted here and it really eats up cars. Many of the repairs and needs of all of our cars have been corrosion related.
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Originally posted by Xargos
Ford owns Volvo now, so it's not going to be as good as it use to be.
Untrue. Ford has been tapping Volvo, and has stayed away from "telling Volvo what they can and cannot implement". Ford has been thinking of selling Volvo, which if done, is the end of Ford. Many of Volvo's Safety designs have been implemented into Ford vehicles, NOT the other way around.
Now if you wanna talk about what I quoted, ask a Saab worker if they like GM.
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eskimo... my son said get a 97 or later... better drive train.. better ride.. better fuel economy and handling and more dependable but.. the earlier ones aren't too bad either as you have seen.
lazs
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Originally posted by Torque
the depositing grounds for airline limos and car services, probably skew the lincoln data a bit.
geography and model years would be interesting, comparing a 200k minnesota to a california car for instance.
I took a closer look and I think that you are exactly right. I looked at Town Cars only, but a huge amount of them were limos, many of which had high miles.
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yes.. but there is a reason that Town cars are the limo of choice and the luxury rental car of choice...
And that so many of em survive to be resold even with high millage.
lazs
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Originally posted by storch
why would you want to buy a run out vehicle for?
An used vehicle doesn't equal run out vehicle. New cars are just a waste of money, even if you can buy them with cash you'll still have to pay for their depriciation. I would never spend any significant part of my income on a car. Thankfully many are.
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Eskimo,
My Volvo has only had 40k miles put on it in the last 3 years that I owned it.
It's also featured in my avatar. It's the white tow vehicle. :D
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Untrue. Ford has been tapping Volvo, and has stayed away from "telling Volvo what they can and cannot implement". Ford has been thinking of selling Volvo, which if done, is the end of Ford. Many of Volvo's Safety designs have been implemented into Ford vehicles, NOT the other way around.
Now if you wanna talk about what I quoted, ask a Saab worker if they like GM.
The "new" S40/V50 are based on Ford Focus platform(identical suspension etc.), which is almost 10 years old. The next series of the bigger models will be Ford based aswell.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Eskimo,
My Volvo has only had 40k miles put on it in the last 3 years that I owned it.
It's also featured in my avatar. It's the white tow vehicle. :D
This guy drives a similar Volvo: (From my local paper this morning)
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Truckin' with eyes on the road
Don Robinson of Green sets sights on next million
By Paula Schleis
Beacon Journal business writer
Imagine driving from New York City to Los Angeles 1,079 times or making 120 trips around the world in your car -- without causing a single accident.
Small wonder Roadway Express officials were moved to arrange a police escort for driver Don Robinson as he returned to the Copley terminal Wednesday afternoon.
He had just logged his 3 millionth accident-free mile in 27 years with the trucking company.
Robinson, who lives in Green, was greeted by cheering co-workers, friends and family who were waiting for his return from a routine trip to Nashville, a journey he makes three times a week.
Roadway service team manager Alex Forrest put Robinson's achievement in another light: An average person driving 12,000 miles a year would have to go without an accident for 250 years to match his feat.
Robinson's club is elite. Among about 10,000 drivers companywide, there are just five ``4-million milers'' and 76 ``3-million milers.''
Forrest said he has only one unconfirmed report of another driver in the history of the Copley terminal reaching 3 million miles, although another driver is poised to reach that milestone this year.
Why is Robinson's record so spotless? It's no secret to his boss.
``He pays attention,'' Forrest said. ``He doesn't put himself in bad situations; he always leaves himself an out.''
That means driving in center lanes so he can react quickly if there is trouble ahead, leaving plenty of traveling space between himself and the vehicles ahead of him, and not allowing personal issues to interfere with his focus on the road.
Robinson narrowed it down to just five words: ``Keeping cool on the job.''
That's not always easy. A couple of years ago, he was caught in Buffalo in a record snowstorm that dumped 37 inches in one day.
``I just stayed behind the snowplow,'' he said.
Robinson's wife, Sue, said she has spent many sleepless nights watching weather reports when her husband has been on the road.
She takes comfort in knowing he is such a safe driver, but she admits, ``I'd rather have him home.''
At the young age of 55, Robinson said that's not likely to happen soon. He expects to make a run at the 4 million milestone.
Robinson received a plaque Wednesday to honor his achievement.
He'll also be assigned a new truck that will be his alone to drive, taking him out of the fleet of trucks that other drivers share.
``That'll be nice,'' he said. ``They're gonna put my name on the door.''
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(http://www.ohio.com/images/ohio/ohio/16909/285924070311.jpg)