Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hap on March 13, 2007, 01:53:36 AM
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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/03/iraqs_accomplishments_in_persp.html
An interesting point of view that I had not read. Especially the part about civil unrest being fomented by Al Qaeda and the author's comparison which may very well be apt.
All the Best,
hap
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The Iraqi people are earning their victory and their liberty. The price for both is inevitably paid in blood, sweat and toil. At this point in history, they need American patience.
It seems to me they need alot more from America than just our patience.
I think a critical analysis of the proposed new oil law reveals a chilling truth about why this war was fought. Follow the money - its a tried and true method for getting to the real reasons behind alot of what happens in the world. So it goes.
http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?story_id=8786337&fsrc=RSS (http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?story_id=8786337&fsrc=RSS)
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He who controls the spice controls the universe.
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Originally posted by Yeager
He who controls the spice controls the universe.
this is true.
just ask beckham.
:aok
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oboe, hap.. I mentioned the deal with the splitting up of revenues to the 3 areas a few weeks ago. I felt then that it was the beginning of peace in the region..
Things are going well.. the democrats and the terrorists or gonna have to hustle if they want to defeat the iraqi government and the U.S.
The democrats have to get out even sooner than the end of 08 if they want to achieve defeat and the terrorists have to really get to work and sacrafice in this home stretch.
Both socialist democrat politics here and terrorism in the world are in danger of being defeated if they don't get moving.
I am sure that general pelosi will give it her all tho.
lazs
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LOL 88!!!
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Originally posted by lazs2
I am sure that general pelosi will give it her all tho.
it seems the far left war protesters (pelosi's base) are mad at her, they are protesting outside her house. " she has been in power for 3 months now and we are still in Iraq", "she promised to get us out,whats taking so long"
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Originally posted by lazs2
oboe, hap.. I mentioned the deal with the splitting up of revenues to the 3 areas a few weeks ago. I felt then that it was the beginning of peace in the region..
Things are going well.. the democrats and the terrorists or gonna have to hustle if they want to defeat the iraqi government and the U.S.
The democrats have to get out even sooner than the end of 08 if they want to achieve defeat and the terrorists have to really get to work and sacrafice in this home stretch.
Both socialist democrat politics here and terrorism in the world are in danger of being defeated if they don't get moving.
I am sure that general pelosi will give it her all tho.
lazs
It doesn't take long to find a critical analysis of the proposed oil agreement. While a 3 way split of a portion of the revenues is a component, it appears mulitnational oil companies are going to exercise control over development and production of Iraq's oil resources.
To the extent that this is perceived by Iraqis as exploitation by the captialist west, I don't think this is a vehicle for long term peace but a guarantee for continued unrest.
I think you are also wrong about Rep Pelosi. She appears to have caved on the demand for congressional approval before war with Iran.
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american corporations are in, china is waking up over the horizon. heck even haliburton has taken a neutral ground hq.
the rest is immaterial.
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why is it a bad thing for the companies who can develop the resources to do so?
lazs
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To the extent that this is perceived by Iraqis as exploitation by the captialist west, I don't think this is a vehicle for long term peace but a guarantee for continued unrest.
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That article simply proves you can put a positive spin on anything. Grand words alone won't win the war.
It seems to me that the current sectarian civil war in Iraq is less to do with America and all to do with the Sunnis fearing that Shia Iran will become the regional power and dominate the area. A Shia dominated Iraq is exactly what they do not want. It does appear to be what they are getting. Iraq may yet get democracy, but it will be an Iranian like democracy. They won't get liberty
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That article simply proves you can put a positive spin on anything. Grand words alone won't win the war.
Mebbe there isn't any spin, mebbe it's just a different viewpoint that we don't usually get to hear. It's not like the media ever gives us any good news from Iraq.
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If this article proves you can spin anything positively, do all the other articles prove you can spin negatively? The truth is always likely in the middle of the extremes.
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Originally posted by VOR
If this article proves you can spin anything positively, do all the other articles prove you can spin negatively? The truth is always likely in the middle of the extremes.
Ding! Ding! Ding! we have a winner!! :D
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The reason I posted it was the KKK comparison mid-way through.
I've no idea what's really going on over there.
I assume there's intractable animosity on all parts.
This author pitched that Al Quaeda is working as a dissention creator of sorts to keep all of them on tenderhooks. Not that they like each other anyway.
But it is true that as people get tired of fussing and make some headway towards amity, and someone comes up and says something about your sister or mother, then the fracas begins all over again.
In this case, the author posits AQ as the force, in part, killing folks on all three sides to keep them rageful and fearful.
I'd never considered that prior.
hap
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I'd never considered that prior.
I'm guessing a lot of folks (myself included) can say that. :)
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Originally posted by lazs2
why is it a bad thing for the companies who can develop the resources to do so?
lazs
So, you like getting taxed for commie corporate welfare now? How many shares of Haliburton did you get those taxes?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
How many shares of Haliburton did you get those taxes?
confused talk you.
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Now I've pretty much said all along that I was for the oil thing
But pardon me for saying.
It just seems to me that the one thing Iraq has going for it is its oil supply.
Iraq needs money.
Iraq can make the most money from oil.
seems to me only to make sense that they deal with oil
Dont hink they can get nearly as much money pumped into their economy by selling their sand.
So whats the big deal? American oil companies are involved?
Yea guess we would have been better off if we let France, Germany and Russia get their free drilling rights from Saddam
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Originally posted by VOR
If this article proves you can spin anything positively, do all the other articles prove you can spin negatively? The truth is always likely in the middle of the extremes.
What I would normally say to that IRL wouldnt be allowed here
So I'll just reasond with a
:aok :aok
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Farggin A, man? :D
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Now I've pretty much said all along that I was for the oil thing
But pardon me for saying.
It just seems to me that the one thing Iraq has going for it is its oil supply.
Iraq needs money.
Iraq can make the most money from oil.
seems to me only to make sense that they deal with oil
Dont hink they can get nearly as much money pumped into their economy by selling their sand.
So whats the big deal? American oil companies are involved?
Yea guess we would have been better off if we let France, Germany and Russia get their free drilling rights from Saddam
That's just the thing, Dred - Iraq stands to lose billions on this oil agreement. Control of development, production, and profits pass from Iraqis to the U.S. oil companies.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2005/crudedesigns.htm#summary (http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2005/crudedesigns.htm#summary)
Gonna make it very difficult to convince anyone this war was about something other than gaining control of Iraqi oil.
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Originally posted by oboe Gonna make it very difficult to convince anyone this war was about something other than gaining control of Iraqi oil. [/B]
It stinks. The damage cannot be undone. Might as well get the stinky truth out there.
Rancor will rule unless statesmen arise.
Stranger things have happened, I guess.
hap
p.s. it'll make a sinister movie someday.
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Originally posted by VOR
Farggin A, man? :D
VOR yea thats pretty close :)
Originally posted by oboe
Gonna make it very difficult to convince anyone this war was about something other than gaining control of Iraqi oil.
I never thought it wasnt.
If it wasnt for the oil I wouldnt have supported going in there as much.
I would have still supported it.
Just not as much
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Not sure how I am paying taxes to support haliburton any more than I am paying taxes to support the guys who win the bid on rebuilding a bridge or road..
Rather do that than give it away in section 8 housing or some other welfare scheme tho. I am all for smaller government that spends less money.
I don't see how a people who bought gold toilet seats and mansions for the sadman and lives like peasants are going to resent American business building up their economy and making sure that everyone gets a fair share..
Not at first anyway.. It is human nature tho that when they do get something that eventually they start to get spoiled and demand more and resent the people giving it to them but.. that is a ways off and if a stable economy and government gets put in place in the meantime... Whats the harm? If it goes like history.. they would gradually end up taking over more and more of their own industry and kick us out.
It just appears to me that general pelosi and the democrats had better hurry up if they want to achieve defeat in iraq... Even the press is having a hard time putting a negative spin on it these days... some press are even going there to see for themselves!
lazs
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What is the big deal with Haliburton?
Hasnt every administration both Rep and Demfor the last 30 years or so used them?
Dont they tend to more or less run the show and hire local companies to actualy do the work thus pumping money into the local economies?
If Im wrong here please explain
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You're wrong, Dred. Halliburton's profits go into Cheney's, Dubya's, Rice's, Colter's and Limbaugh's pockets. Rummy isn't invited to club meetings anymore, so I guess he's a Dem now.
They also have swimming pools filled with chlorinated sweet crude and I heard from a reliable source that the Iraq WMD are being smuggled across the Mexican border and being used on US citizens in Guantanamo bay.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I don't see how a people who bought gold toilet seats and mansions for the sadman and lives like peasants are going to resent American business building up their economy and making sure that everyone gets a fair share..
Making sure everyone gets a fair share? Do you honestly think that is going to be one of the goals of American businesses as they rebuild Iraq's oil economy?
Pretty sure that is not gonna happen.
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i'll tell you where the oil profits are not going, to build 26 gold and marble palaces for saddam, buying sports cars and gold plated AK47's for his idiot sons, arming the fourth largest army in the world. Into saddams private Swiss accounts, and not to forget "oil for food".
Pretty sure that is not gonna happen.
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I read the article. Alot of it is pure speculation. Since all the *discussions* are happening behind closed doors no one really knows just yet what is happening or how it is going to turn out.
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oboe.. do you really think that they are going to do a worse job than the sadman did of distributing the wealth or in making it profitable?
Now who is being dishonest?
lazs
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Originally posted by john9001
confused talk you.
An american is a moon is a moon man.
Now that Haliburton has relocated to Dubai, billions (hundreds of billions?) of US tax dollars are going to a foreign corporation to service a foreign country. Just how freaking crazy is that?
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Originally posted by lazs2
oboe.. do you really think that they are going to do a worse job than the sadman did of distributing the wealth or in making it profitable?
Now who is being dishonest?
lazs
I honestly believe U.S. oil companies are going to do no better job of distributing wealth than Saddam did. Distributing wealth is not what they do. I think they will be quite profitable but I don't think it will benefit the average Iraqi much. And I don't think the Iraqis are going to be any more impressed with the mansions of the oil execs than they were with Saddam's. Less so, because at least Saddam was an Iraqi - I imagine some militias are going to be outraged at the amount of wealth that will be pumped out of the country.
Elfie is right though, its still speculation at this point, because the agreement has not yet been approved. But we certainly now know what is on the minds of the negotiators.
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Of course it is speculation and.. I stated it wrong anyway... it will not be the corporations who distribute the wealth in any case... they will grow the wealth.
What will happen is that the corporations will grow the wealth and the government (of iraq) will distribute it.
I firmly believe that the people of iraq will come out better for this deal.
lazs