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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Kieran on March 14, 2007, 07:58:25 PM

Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Kieran on March 14, 2007, 07:58:25 PM
What is a bigot?

Honestly, and without venom, I want to know what a few of you guys think that really is. As the last thread was locked down because of that venom, I am challenging a few of you progressive fellows to state your case without the invective.

I don't know if honest debate is possible here. I surely hope it is. All I've seen from a few guys is a great deal of malice.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: rabbidrabbit on March 14, 2007, 08:19:18 PM
A bigot is someone who judges others based on their own ignorance and arrogance instead of observable fact.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Terror on March 14, 2007, 08:23:23 PM
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own.

T
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Ripsnort on March 14, 2007, 08:24:33 PM
"A bigot is one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ believing they, as a group, deserve special treatment above and beyond everyone else."
.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: DYNAMITE on March 14, 2007, 08:29:46 PM
"a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion."

And I also found...

"One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. "
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: lasersailor184 on March 14, 2007, 08:33:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
A bigot is someone who judges others based on their own ignorance and arrogance instead of observable fact.


As opposed to a racist who does judge others based on observable fact?
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: JB88 on March 14, 2007, 08:35:28 PM
webster says:


bigot

Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
- big·ot·ed /-g&-t&d/ adjective
- big·ot·ed·ly adverb


interesting that they use "hypocrite" as a derivative.  saw that in a few instances.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: john9001 on March 14, 2007, 08:36:55 PM
a bigot is someone you disagree with.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Hap on March 14, 2007, 09:27:10 PM
Hi Kieran,

Mirriam Webster works for me:

bigot

Main Entry:
big·ot
Pronunciation:
\?bi-g?t\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
French, hypocrite, bigot
Date:
1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
— big·ot·ed  \-g?-t?d\ adjective
— big·ot·ed·ly adverb


The 1st definition hits it spot on.  A great problem we have today is a lack of discrimination.  We need more, not less, of the sort that allows someone to distinguish between sorts of things.  And reason needs to be formed rightly and not allowed to become overgrown with weeds and the like.

Again, MW to the rescue:

discriminate
One entry found.

discriminate

Main Entry:
dis·crim·i·nate
Pronunciation:
\dis-?kri-m?-?n?t\
Function:
verb
Inflected Form(s):
-nat·ed; -nat·ing
Etymology:
Latin discriminatus, past participle of discriminare, from discrimin-, discrimen distinction, from discernere to distinguish between — more at discern
Date:
1628
transitive verb1 a: to mark or perceive the distinguishing or peculiar features of b: distinguish, differentiate 2: to distinguish by discerning or exposing differences; especially : to distinguish from another like objectintransitive verb1 a: to make a distinction b: to use good judgment2: to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit


Again, the ability to differentiate.  Good old Aristotle's "Quiditas."

Great question.  I'm afraid to look what folks have said though.  Guess I will after I click.

All the Best,

hap

p.s.  I can sense your dissapointment and frustration.  This isn't the pool in which to search for honest discourse.  It does exist however, and I am ever cheered when I see and read it.  It's just a tad on the rare side.

BTW, I hear Aristotle and St. Thomas are making a comeback.  Good for those whomever they maybe who assist in that endeavor.  And Kieran, we share an important thing or two in common.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: rabbidrabbit on March 14, 2007, 10:06:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
As opposed to a racist who does judge others based on observable fact?


By definition racists are bigots.  They are just blind to some observable facts.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: eskimo2 on March 14, 2007, 10:11:46 PM
MS Word synonyms for bigot:
extremist
diehard
dogmatist
racist
hypocrite
chauvinist
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Curval on March 15, 2007, 05:38:15 AM
I suppose I am one of the people being accused of malice and venom, which is ironic.  

I'm curious though, why the need to define "bigot"?  In the thread that got locked the only person I see using that word is you Kieran.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Ball on March 15, 2007, 05:58:43 AM
Main Entry:
big·ot
Pronunciation:
\?cur-val\
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Curval on March 15, 2007, 06:05:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ball
Main Entry:
big·ot
Pronunciation:
\?cur-val\


lol

Yup, that is pretty much the way this thread is heading.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Ball on March 15, 2007, 06:08:38 AM
:D
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Kieran on March 15, 2007, 06:26:48 AM
C'mon, guys, stay on course.

My main concern on this board is the way a discussion goes from "discussing" to "shout-down" mode. The point I tried to make is throwing key phrases out will end any thread with a lockdown.

The overuse of those words has rendered them nearly devoid of impact or meaning. Sadly, that is a reflection of our society, so I am seriously wondering if people really know what the word/words mean as they use them.

This thread will head anywhere you make it Curval. I can't stop you. I'm hoping you take the high road.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Catalyst on March 15, 2007, 06:59:59 AM
a few online...

Word History: Bigots may have more in common with God than one might think. Legend has it that Rollo, the first duke of Normandy, refused to kiss the foot of the French king Charles III, uttering the phrase bi got, his borrowing of the assumed Old English equivalent of our expression by God. Although this story is almost surely apocryphal, it is true that bigot was used by the French as a term of abuse for the Normans, but not in a religious sense. Later, however, the word, or very possibly a homonym, was used abusively in French for the Beguines, members of a Roman Catholic lay sisterhood. From the 15th century on Old French bigot meant "an excessively devoted or hypocritical person." Bigot is first recorded in English in 1598 with the sense "a superstitious hypocrite."


bigot  

1598, from M.Fr. bigot, from O.Fr., supposedly a derogatory name for Normans, the old theory (not universally accepted) being that it springs from their frequent use of O.E. oath bi God. Plausible, since the Eng. were known as whoopees in Joan of Arc's France, and during World War I Americans serving in France were said to be known as les sommobiches (see also son of a *****). But the earliest Fr. use of the word (12c.) is as the name of a people apparently in southern Gaul. The earliest Eng. sense is of "religious hypocrite," especially a female one, and may be influenced by beguine. Sense extended 1687 to other than religious opinions.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper

bigot
A person who is religiously attached to a particular computer, language, operating system, editor, or other tool (see religious issues). Usually found with a specifier; thus, "Cray bigot", "ITS bigot", "APL bigot", "VMS bigot", "Berkeley bigot". Real bigots can be distinguished from mere partisans or zealots by the fact that they refuse to learn alternatives even when the march of time and/or technology is threatening to obsolete the favoured tool. It is truly said "You can tell a bigot, but you can't tell him much." Compare weenie.
[The Jargon File]


The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing, © 1993-2007 Denis Howe
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: lazs2 on March 15, 2007, 08:33:12 AM
kieran... I can tell you that I think the word is pretty much meaningless.

every group has attached some meaning to it to suit their purposes but it is essentially meaningless.

If you insist on assigning any meaning to it then it would have to be that it describes the human condition.   that it is a part of being human and in every single human.   It is not a bad thing or a good thing in and of itself but can be either.

every single one of us is a bigot about something... often for very good reasons.

I am a bigot against child molesters or torturers or rapists for instance.

I also believe that there are physical and mental racial traits.    

Both of these beliefs make me a bigot in the strictest sense and by someones defenition.

lazs
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: BTW on March 15, 2007, 09:48:18 AM
More often than not its an ethnocentric person. But ethnocentric doesn't have the teeth of the word bigot, so bigot is used more. Still , bigot doesn't have the teeth as racist, so racist is used when things get really hot.

But more often than not, its simply a person who feels that his culture is the way the world was meant to be and resists attempts to change him.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Toad on March 15, 2007, 09:57:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
a bigot is someone you disagree with.


I think the O-Club definition would be someone who disagrees with you.

;)
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: straffo on March 15, 2007, 09:58:29 AM
A person who look at the world only using his dogma(s) .
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: storch on March 15, 2007, 10:00:05 AM
I looked up the word bigot and all I saw was a photo of some guy in pink shorts carrying an attache case.  That can't be correct, can it?
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Jackal1 on March 15, 2007, 10:27:55 AM
Definition that seems to be followed here on this board is......anyone who doesn`t bow down to PCness ........or actualy has the cajones to stick to their beliefs, PC crowd be damned.




Local 101 :)
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Saintaw on March 15, 2007, 10:39:07 AM
My french dictionary says this:


(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/19_1173973348_766_1107479195_bar_stools.jpg)

Saw - (malicious Saw)
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Jackal1 on March 15, 2007, 10:50:24 AM
:rofl :aok


Saw da man.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: BTW on March 15, 2007, 11:22:55 AM
nuns with mannequin legs?
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: moot on March 15, 2007, 11:47:55 AM
The definition of a word is not made by its practical useage statistics... some people don't synthesize ideas into speech, so much as repeat patterns they've accepted as meaning what they think.
Our vocabulary would have to be a lot richer to express all the hues and subtle nuances each person intends to say.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: namvet on March 15, 2007, 12:06:53 PM
We usually just call them Republicans.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: jhookt on March 15, 2007, 12:28:39 PM
my grandpa said it like this:

A bigot is a man who doesn't like another man for a reason, whether it be a good reason or a bad reason

he then went on to say that:

a bigot is a bigot but a racist is white
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Maverick on March 15, 2007, 12:35:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
As opposed to a racist who does judge others based on observable fact?


Not to totally disagree with you but I think there is a bit missing from the little bit you listed. I would rather it say something this:

 as opposed to an individual who draws inappropriate conclusions based on irrelevent and or misinterpreted data they believe to be facts.

This is more in line with the emotionally charged word of bigot.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Shaky on March 15, 2007, 12:37:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by namvet
We usually just call them Republicans.


And yet another gold example of blatent hypocrisy.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Saintaw on March 15, 2007, 01:15:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BTW
nuns with mannequin legs?


"Les bigottes" ... Brel? :)
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Furious on March 15, 2007, 01:29:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
....This thread will head anywhere you make it Curval. I can't stop you. I'm hoping you take the high road.


passive/aggressive much?  yes.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: dread66 on March 15, 2007, 02:19:38 PM
A bigot is someone who is no longer willing to attempt civil discourse with another person that has suspended the requirement of reason in exchange for a mental placebo.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: FiLtH on March 15, 2007, 02:33:28 PM
Im intolerent or words like progressive,tolerence,and political correctness.

   I'm all for change, as long as it doesnt include me.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: straffo on March 15, 2007, 03:35:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
"Les bigottes" ... Brel? :)


I think I'm the only one able to laught at this reference :)
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Kieran on March 15, 2007, 05:44:40 PM
Well, there you go. That wasn't so bad, was it?

Many of you seem to see the same thing I see... overused words lose their punch. Couple that with the way these words are used (to end discussion) and you can see they completely lose all meaning and impact.

Honestly I don't care what I'm called- doesn't matter. It is difficult to carry on a conversation with someone if they pull the trump cards, because that usually locks the threads. That doesn't seem right.

I just wondered how many people could actually come up with a meaning for the word, and I guess I kinda wondered how many people couldn't survive one thread without taking a potshot. Sometimes I think I could start a thread with the header "THE" and someone would end up yelling "racist" or "bigot" before it was over. Maybe some day I'll try it.

I don't come here to listen to people agree with me... what's the point? I come here to hear a different viewpoint and discuss mine. I won't agree with many of you. So what? I don't know what I really believe until it's challenged, and that isn't gonna happen if I hang out with cronies that always nod heads when I speak. I suspect many of you feel the same way, even if you've never thought of it that way.

We're all big boys and girls; I don't think the names really "hurt" any of us. Using them to kill threads hurts us all.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: DYNAMITE on March 15, 2007, 06:41:57 PM
I don't think using terms like bigot, or raciest is what gets threads locked...  I think its the derogatory / disrespectful language used to describe significant portions of the population that gets threads locked.  It just so happens that the use of these terms will garner the "bigot" response.

Just my $.02
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: BTW on March 15, 2007, 07:22:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
Well, there you go. That wasn't so bad, was it?

Many of you seem to see the same thing I see... overused words lose their punch. Couple that with the way these words are used (to end discussion) and you can see they completely lose all meaning and impact.

Honestly I don't care what I'm called- doesn't matter. It is difficult to carry on a conversation with someone if they pull the trump cards, because that usually locks the threads. That doesn't seem right.

I just wondered how many people could actually come up with a meaning for the word, and I guess I kinda wondered how many people couldn't survive one thread without taking a potshot. Sometimes I think I could start a thread with the header "THE" and someone would end up yelling "racist" or "bigot" before it was over. Maybe some day I'll try it.

I don't come here to listen to people agree with me... what's the point? I come here to hear a different viewpoint and discuss mine. I won't agree with many of you. So what? I don't know what I really believe until it's challenged, and that isn't gonna happen if I hang out with cronies that always nod heads when I speak. I suspect many of you feel the same way, even if you've never thought of it that way.

We're all big boys and girls; I don't think the names really "hurt" any of us. Using them to kill threads hurts us all.



People seldom use words like "bigot" or "racist" or "hate speak" if rhetoric isn't involved.  What is "don't like" speak? Certainly not as malicious as "hate speak" I guess, but where would "don't like" end and "hate" start?

Its all rhetoric passed off as logic.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: Kieran on March 16, 2007, 06:22:02 AM
I guess I look at it like this; there are absolute viewpoints held by many people that are not going to change. Lazs likes guns, Thrawn won't spank his kids, I am religious. None of that is going to change. However, we can still exchange ideas so long as we stay in the boundaries and keep threads open.

Even if I don't agree with a person I like to hear what they have to say.

*Furious: "I knew Fatty. I flew with Fatty. Fatty was my friend. You, sir, are no Fatty." ;)
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: SirLoin on March 16, 2007, 07:45:28 AM
Bigot is an abbreviation for Big-Idiot.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: SirLoin on March 16, 2007, 07:47:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Saintaw
My french dictionary says this:


(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/19_1173973348_766_1107479195_bar_stools.jpg)

Saw - (malicious Saw)





What's black/white & red and crawls on the ground?



A wounded nun.
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: lazs2 on March 16, 2007, 08:19:57 AM
kieran... it is not just that it is an overused word... it is that it was never one that really had any meaning in any case.

I never put much stock in it as most never would think of using it on me and the ones who do are pretty much beneath my contempt anyway.   It is rare that someone I think highly of will use that word.

lazs
Title: Help me with a definition
Post by: moot on March 16, 2007, 09:03:22 AM
Few people are truly stupid enough to be resumed by just "bigot".