Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: redman555 on March 16, 2007, 11:03:48 PM
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K i dont know if anyone else has compalined about this but the 1 thing that is worng with this game is the 50cals. its kinda rediculous. I my grandfathers friend flew a P-51 in WWII and he said 1 accurate burst of it would rip a wing clear off. Tonight i put 200 50cals in a 190D-9 and he lost 1 flap......
I really think this needs to be fixed. A 50cal is not much smaller than a 20mm i mean its really almst 3/4 the size of a 20.
Gamename==== BigBOB1
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What was your convergence set to? That makes a big difference
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my conv was 325 and i was 300 away all i saw was a candle basicly the plane literally lit up
O and i was watch Dogfights right now u see 4 50cals hit a Ju-88 engine and it blew up it was the F4F
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Originally posted by redman555
K i dont know if anyone else has compalined about this but the 1 thing that is worng with this game is the 50cals. its kinda rediculous. I my grandfathers friend flew a P-51 in WWII and he said 1 accurate burst of it would rip a wing clear off. Tonight i put 200 50cals in a 190D-9 and he lost 1 flap......
I really think this needs to be fixed. A 50cal is not much smaller than a 20mm i mean its really almst 3/4 the size of a 20.
Gamename==== BigBOB1
It all comes down to operator head space and timing ;)
Meaning if YOU use them correctly they can and will tear a plane apart. Try filming these fights so you can review where you hit. My bet is that you hit him outside your convergence setting and that you didn't hit the 190 in one spot but were spraying it all over.
Hell a Hurri Mk1 (8 .303's) will rip other planes to shreds...at convergence AND with a nice stable impact point.
Then again it all comes down to how the shooter shoots ;)
Just saw your reply...you have to hit one one spot with a good burst, don't just spray them.
Also trying to compare the .50 cal and a 20mm round is kind of apples to oranges. The .50 cal has no explosive power in itself, it just relies on kenetic energy to do damage. The 20mm (or any HE cannon round) uses explosive power to do it's damage.
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first redman, dogfights is not real, it is a TV program. if you believe everything you see on TV you're an idiot.
second, 50 cals are totally monstrous. i would prefer to have 50 cals on my plane than any cannon, you obviously just have no clue how to shoot.
i personally have made 15 kill p51 sorties without reloading. one small burst of 50's will totally destroy any plane, you just need to be a good pilot and a good shot.
learn how to fly and shoot properly, THEN complain about 50 cals. you will soon learn they are the best guns in the game
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all of them hit i saw it so w/e
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Originally posted by redman555
all of them hit i saw it so w/e
With a 3.77% hit percentage....you sure you wanna say you saw all of them hit?
Also did they hit the same spot???
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.50 cals are way overmodelled in this game.
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I would suggest filming some sorties for a while.
Go back, analyze and see whats going on.
Bronk
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You saw 200 hit sprites? I'm thinking not.
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50s seem to work fine for me.
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Tonight i put 200 50cals in a 190D-9
No you didn't. There's no way you could hit any plane at 300 yards with 200 rounds and not get some catastrophic damage. Simply put: BS
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I'll wager he hit the guy twice.
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50CALS SUCK! TEHY CANT KILL NOTHING!
I HATE THSI STOOPID GAME FULL OF LAMERZ WHO THINKS TAHT THE 50CALIBURS ARE GOOD GUNZ.
MY FRIEND TOLD ME THAT HE PLAYED RAINBOW SIX AND TAHT THE 50CALS IN TAHT GMAE WOOD NUKE CITIES BUT HE USED HIS SUPER HAX0RS. YOU CANT HAX0R TIHS GMAE SO THE 50CALS SUCKS
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Anybody remember the guy that flipped out over .50cals being fubar'd? He said he hit an enemy plane with hundreds of rounds and didn't do any damage. They really freaked out over it.
IIRC they sent HTC the film and HTC figured out he had only hit the bad guy a handful of times and those hits were spread out over the plane doing no real damage to it.
Just because you FIRED 200 rounds doesn't mean you LANDED 200 rounds.
If you are setting up the shot correctly, a quick burst from 6 .50 cals (heck or 4) will saw a plane in 1/2. Just make sure they are all hitting at the same spot. i.e. you can spray from nose to tail and do squat for damage, but a short burst that all hit in pretty much in one place will do bad things to enemies planes.
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his connection is a tin can and string.
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Go offline. Turn your tracers on. Get behind a drone at 300k. Start your film. Blast away. Then go review. You will see you have made a boo boo.
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Originally posted by redman555
I my grandfathers friend flew a P-51 in WWII and he said 1 accurate burst of it would rip a wing clear off.
First, note the "accurate." Since I'm a good shot at normal ranges, it takes me an average of about two seconds to kill a fighter with four fifty calibers (catastrophic structural failure, mostly, not just fire). I think that's perfectly reasonable. Second, a "burst" can mean one second or ten seconds of firing; the limit is how long the guns can handle it. And third, the primary cause of aircraft loss by all calibers in World War Two was fire, not catastrophic structural failure. I do think that the damage model needs work, but the guns are closer to being too powerful rather than not powerful enough (actually it's not the destructive power as much as the effect on the airframe).
Biggles is absolutely right. You need to learn how to shoot (and not use television as a source - ever). I do know how to shoot, and I think that the Browning fifties are overall the best in the game. Since I fly the P-38, I have both Hispano and Brownings at my disposal; I rely primarily on the machine guns and save the cannon for emergencies.
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You saw 200 hit sprites? I'm thinking not.
With his 3.77% average in gunnery, to see "200" hit sprites he would have fired around 5,305 rounds total.
Assuming he was flying a P-47 with extra ammo option which has 3,400 50cal rounds in AH, 5,305 rounds is about one and a half jugfull of ammunition, with a firing time of total 48 seconds.
In other words, with his gunnery he could have held down the trigger for 32 seconds until he spends the entire ammo load of the P-47 on just one opportunity, and he still wouldn't be able to count "200" hit sprites.
Ofcourse he's lying. Or exaggerating grossly, rather.
He didn't put 200 rounds in that 190. He probably fired 200 rounds. With his 3.77% gunnery, out of those 200 rounds fired he probably landed about only around 7~8.
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Originally posted by redman555
I really think this needs to be fixed. A 50cal is not much smaller than a 20mm i mean its really almst 3/4 the size of a 20.
I suggest that you read this: -
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm
And: -
Powerful HMGs like the Berezin and the .50" Browning were of course far from useless. They remained quite effective against fighters but would probably have found great difficulty in shooting down heavy bombers. The USN tested the 20mm Hispano against the .50", and concluded that the Hispano was three times as effective at normal fighting ranges, even though the gun weighed less than twice as much.
from
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ideal.htm
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Originally posted by redman555
A 50cal is not much smaller than a 20mm i mean its really almst 3/4 the size of a 20.
Basic math: 50cal = 12.7mm is only almost 3/4 in diameter. But the volume of any body is function of x to the power of 3.
So a 20mm round is almost 4 times bigger than a 50cal, if the shapes are identical.
(And of course you would have to add the explosive filling of that 20mm when comparing both rounds)
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yup,,pretty close...bullet weight..or grains are the best to go by...a 20mm on average is 1600 grains...a 50 cal is 500...so a 20mm is little over 3 times as heavy as a 50 cal..so a 20mm is worth three 50cal rounds
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If I could make all the planes in the MA's do slow circles , My 50 cals would be far more devistating. I can destroy planes from 800 out with a good burst...yet in the MA's nobody flies in slow circles....WHY? Please if you read this post, go to a base I plan on upping and fly in slow circles, it would be very nice of you...Thanks in advance.
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50's are like chainsaws when you hit the same spot.(spray and pray is not effective)
I like the wing root on spits for example( seems like if they are pulling hard Gs when you hit the wing it will come off like it was put on with Velcro)
and the right engine on A20s (I suppose the left is good too but i always go for the right one (my wife would say I'm making the left one jealous))
LA's i just shoot at the back because they are always running away:lol
I set my convergence to 250 because I like to get close in (because I cant see for chit) and I fly a Hellcat (the plane not my wife) most nights.
I do admit against heavy bombers they are not exactly what the doctor ordered
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If you take the jug against bombers those 8 .50s are more effective than the small nosed 110G with 2x30mm and 2x20mm. .50s are overmodelled in this game.
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Originally posted by storch
If you take the jug against bombers those 8 .50s are more effective than the small nosed 110G with 2x30mm and 2x20mm. .50s are overmodelled in this game.
BS
Bronk
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Originally posted by redman555
all of them hit i saw it so w/e
Otherwords:
"You hurt my feelings you big meanies! Im telling my mommy" :cry
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Rule 4
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.50s cals seem to rip things off for me pretty easily, and I am a piss poor shot.
I have my convergence in a zone from 300-400 (most of my deflection shoots seem to be around 400, and its good enough for dead six up close). The 6 x .50 cals kill really well.
The only things that give me trouble are heavy bombers and using the 4x .50 cal arrangement. Bombers sort of require you to saddle up and hose them which means more oppurtunity for them to kill you, and well the 4 x .50 cal arrangement is 50% less lead going to the target.
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Originally posted by iWalrus
snip
Your not long for this world.
:lol :lol
Bronk
Edit: Lan this the New you? hahhahaha
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*SNIF*
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Rule 4
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:noid
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Originally posted by Bronk
BS
Bronk
i dunno, storch is right.
personally i prefer to kill buffs with 50's. it takes a bit more patience because you need to climb above them to set up a nice profile shot, but once you're above killing buffs with 50's is quite quick, and you don't need to get so close before you shoot, so there's less risk of getting a magic pilot wound :)
if you can get a nice shot setup, 50's are more powerful than 20mm, atleast, they are to me :)
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Originally posted by Bronk
Your not long for this world.
:lol :lol
Bronk
Edit: Lan this the New you? hahhahaha
hmmm, it could very well be. talking about a random threesome in his post puts him in the 11-16 age bracket :rofl
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As has been stated, set you convergence in close (350yds are less). Fire from CLOSER (I set wing-mounted .50s to converge at 300yds, I think, and I sometimes hold fire until the range counter shows 200). A half-second burst concentrated on the wing will rip it right off planes like the Spit and Zeke. A solid hit (about 1/2-1 second of fire) to the tail will rip an N1K apart.
Also keep in mind that some planes are just TOUGHER than others, so while Spits and Zekes may succumb to scattered hits more readily, American and German iron really need concentrated fire to bring down. 190s are quite tough birds, and I regularly need to put a couple good bursts into them to knock one out with .50 cal if he's maneuvering (any plane holding straight and level you should be able to whack with ease).
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K i dont know if anyone else has compalined about this but the 1 thing that is worng with this game is the 50cals. its kinda rediculous. I my grandfathers friend flew a P-51 in WWII and he said 1 accurate burst of it would rip a wing clear off. Tonight i put 200 50cals in a 190D-9 and he lost 1 flap......
This phrase contains "the 1 thing that is worng with this game". I was going to continue, but I think we covered enough there.
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just seems like the 50s are under powered thats what im trying to say
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Originally posted by redman555
just seems like the 50s are under powered thats what im trying to say
What is your basis for comparison?
Underpowered compared to what?
If you want frustration try flying around in the Yak-9U. Oi Vey, I'm really trying to like this plane but having to saddle up within 200m and put my cowling over them is just no fun.
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A challenge for you:
Meet any experienced pilot who knows his stuff with the Ma Deuce in the DA. Both of you fly a fighter with the .50cal 6-pack. THEN come back and say the .50s are underpowered.
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I did this with 50's last night in FSO;
(http://www.lotrplaza.com/forum/support/28936/190ded.jpg)
.... and certainly less than 200, in fact about 8 (hits).
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You know in all honesty sometimes it's lag.
I had a really strange experience the other night, but wasn't rolling film.
Move in on a friendly capped field in a 51D to remove some vulchers.
Find the highest con, which was an unsuspecting 47 and dive in on him.
Blast the hell out of him, seeing sustained hit sprites on his right wing. He turned a bit and I blasted his left wing.
Now i'm thinking to myself, you've got to be kidding me, there's no way he could still fly after all that, and yet he was.
So i follow him down in his dive, and back up in his zoom climb ready to fire again when all of a sudden his right wing disintegrates, then his left, then he explodes, as i must have hit the pilot too on the first attack.
Now that was wierd.
Had a squaddie experience something really similar in a TA152 attacking a set of buffs.
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Well, since we're showing off... :D
(http://vmf251-buccaneers.netprism.net/images/Media/BreakingUp.png)
Did this with maybe a 1-2 second burst.
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Something just wrong about Corsairs shooting eachother down.
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Originally posted by BigR
50CALS SUCK! TEHY CANT KILL NOTHING!
I HATE THSI STOOPID GAME FULL OF LAMERZ WHO THINKS TAHT THE 50CALIBURS ARE GOOD GUNZ.
MY FRIEND TOLD ME THAT HE PLAYED RAINBOW SIX AND TAHT THE 50CALS IN TAHT GMAE WOOD NUKE CITIES BUT HE USED HIS SUPER HAX0RS. YOU CANT HAX0R TIHS GMAE SO THE 50CALS SUCKS
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/cry.jpg)
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just seems like the 50s are under powered thats what im trying to say
Your gunnery's underpowered. The 50cals are fine.
But you don't have to feel bad about it. Inexperienced game pilots have this strange tendency to think that there's always something wrong with the game, and not with themselves. For every mishap they blame the game first, never themselves... and then get bashed by people who know better, learn the hard truth, and then soon realize this game makes more sense then one thought.
It's sort of a rite of passage. You do stupid things, and then learn to not do it again.
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Was a P38.
(http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4958/image1eh3.jpg)
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Originally posted by PuckIt
Go offline. Turn your tracers on. Get behind a drone at 300k. Start your film. Blast away. Then go review. You will see you have made a boo boo.
Well climbing a drone up to 300K should keep him busy for a while :D
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lol, yeah I suppose your right. Whoops :p
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:lol
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50CALS SUCK! TEHY CANT KILL NOTHING!
I HATE THSI STOOPID GAME FULL OF LAMERZ WHO THINKS TAHT THE 50CALIBURS ARE GOOD GUNZ.
MY FRIEND TOLD ME THAT HE PLAYED RAINBOW SIX AND TAHT THE 50CALS IN TAHT GMAE WOOD NUKE CITIES BUT HE USED HIS SUPER HAX0RS. YOU CANT HAX0R TIHS GMAE SO THE 50CALS SUCKS50CALS SUCK! TEHY CANT KILL NOTHING!
............................. ............................. ............................. ............................. ..:confused: Calm Down Stressarella Sheesh!!
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Originally posted by weirwolf
50CALS SUCK! TEHY CANT KILL NOTHING!
I HATE THSI STOOPID GAME FULL OF LAMERZ WHO THINKS TAHT THE 50CALIBURS ARE GOOD GUNZ.
MY FRIEND TOLD ME THAT HE PLAYED RAINBOW SIX AND TAHT THE 50CALS IN TAHT GMAE WOOD NUKE CITIES BUT HE USED HIS SUPER HAX0RS. YOU CANT HAX0R TIHS GMAE SO THE 50CALS SUCKS........................ ............................. ............................. ............................. .......:confused: Calm Down Stressarella Sheesh!!
:eek: :huh :huh :confused:
:noid
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Sorry Don,t Know how to Qoute ppl yet lol
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Originally posted by BigR
50CALS SUCK! TEHY CANT KILL NOTHING!
I HATE THSI STOOPID GAME FULL OF LAMERZ WHO THINKS TAHT THE 50CALIBURS ARE GOOD GUNZ.
MY FRIEND TOLD ME THAT HE PLAYED RAINBOW SIX AND TAHT THE 50CALS IN TAHT GMAE WOOD NUKE CITIES BUT HE USED HIS SUPER HAX0RS. YOU CANT HAX0R TIHS GMAE SO THE 50CALS SUCKS
............................. .......there we go figured it out lol
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Originally posted by weirwolf
....................................there we go figured it out lol
he was only kidding wolf ;) just taking the piss
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Just my $.02 but I think that the .50s work pretty well. Haven't flown in a year. Spent a little time on last nite with a buddy who's new to the game. 2 sorties in a P-51b that only carries 4 .50s. 3 kills, 2 assists in 2 sorties that were mostly spent touring about. 2 of the kills and 1 assist were on B-24's.
'Course it helps to hit what you're aiming at. ;)
The Allied machine guns seem to "feel" about right to me. Being non-explosive, you've gotta get a good solid burst right around your convergance range to see their real power. You do that though, and they're quite effective. That jibes with pretty much all of the ancedotal accounts I've ever heard/read.
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my f-6 .50's work great, accurate, and pack a good punch when on tgt. I normally fly with 190', or 110.. but when i jump into a f-6...I kinda like being able to light em up from 800-1000 mtrs. with the .50's. my convergence is set at 500. all guns. No complaints. Id mess with your convergence, i think. Whats good for 1 pilot, may not be good for your marksmanship. (yes, its a matter of personal marksmanship) everyone is a bit different. not better, not worse, just different shooting style. more free advice, its worth exactly what you paid for it,...nothing ;)
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One good 1/2 second burst at convergance on a wing and it will fall off, that is if you have the guns set all to hit at the same spot. :aok
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yeah wolf thats the think i know that 50cals can punch through inches of pure steel this is why im saying there underpowered, wings on planes are very vary thin steel but normally its not even steel sometimes its fiberglass or aluminum
:mad: if 1 can punch through an inch or so of steel 10-20 should rip a wing clear off.
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Originally posted by redman555
:mad: if 1 can punch through an inch or so of steel 10-20 should rip a wing clear off.
But most people do have a hard time putting 20 bullets into the same location during combat ;)
A hit % of 3 would require 600 shots to get 18 hits. And most of the time they are raked all over the enemy plane, instead of being concentrated on one point.
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Originally posted by redman555
yeah wolf thats the think i know that 50cals can punch through inches of pure steel this is why im saying there underpowered, wings on planes are very vary thin steel but normally its not even steel sometimes its fiberglass or aluminum
:mad: if 1 can punch through an inch or so of steel 10-20 should rip a wing clear off.
There are a couple of issues raised by your statement here.
First off is: You do realize that the .50 is not an explosive cannon round right? It's just a hunk of metal. It doesn't penetrate & explode, throwing shrapnel around everywhere like the cannons do. A .50 caliber bullet punching a hole in a wing isn't going to rip a wing clear off unless it hits a spar. I'm not exactly sure of the damage mapping, but if you're able to get 10 or 20 hit sprites in a wing root, that wing will come off no matter what the plane is.
Secondly: I don't mean to denigrate you here, but there's no real way around it. I have a bit of trouble believing that you're getting 10 or 20 hit sprites at the same location on your enemy. Your hit % simply isn't high enough to convince me that you're able to concentrate your hits with a .50 as opposed to essentially spraying & praying the other guy. Again, these aren't cannon where one round that explodes in the fuselage or wing may be enough to take out a plane. These are simply metal slugs which, if they don't hit anything important (spar, fuel tank, pilot) on their way in & out of the plane can simply be shrugged off. (And even at that, it'll take a good amount of .50 hits on a wing spar to damage it to the point of failure.)
You think that the .50s are undermodeled. That's your perogative I guess. But those of us who understand how they work and who have a decent hit percentage with them feel differently. You might wanna do a little more research and put some stock in what we're saying.
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I popped the wing off DanoDano's 4-Hog with my last 40rds of .50 cal during a furball a couple nights ago. One of the damn luckiest shots I ever made. :D
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yeah wolf thats the think i know that 50cals can punch through inches of pure steel this is why im saying there underpowered, wings on planes are very vary thin steel but normally its not even steel sometimes its fiberglass or aluminum
if 1 can punch through an inch or so of steel 10-20 should rip a wing clear off.
Unfortunately, you can't rip a wing off if you don't land them.
A scattered hit is basically a bunch of holes in the wings, nothing more. Like others have mentioned the 50cals primarily rely on the kinetic potency of the rounds to actually hit something and break it, whereas cannons are essentially miniature grenade charges that detonate on impact. It's no wonder the latter is deemed at least three times as efficient than the former.
So excuse us skeptics if we'd rather believe its your gunnery that sucks, rather than the 50cals are modelled wrong.
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The only thing funny is how often you hit a canopy with any rounds in the game without a pilot wound being the result, then bang outta no where you get one for a shot from underneath.
Not saying its not accurate, its just peculiar.