Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: fuzeman on March 19, 2007, 05:40:49 PM
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Almost put this in Cable v DSL thread but didn't want to hijack it at all.
Well Verizon has put FiOS in the area and I was wondering about trying it over Adelphia>Time Warner cable I have now.
Only way I could finagle it is with a package deal with phone and TV all in one.
I realy don't like the 1 year thing and sounds sort of expensive if you need service.
Then again I have no real facts or experience to base my opinions on so, of course, I rely on your experience and facts.
Let the opinions fly!
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I have no idea what FiOS is. Would you please enlighten those that can't respond, but would like to follow along and read the responses later?
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Fiber optic.
Here's a blurb from their website:
"Verizon FiOS Internet Service is a broadband service designed to provide Internet access with maximum connection speeds of up to 50 Mbps or 30 Mbps downstream and 5 Mbps upstream, depending on where you live. FiOS is provided on our state-of-the-art fiber-optic network. The consumer packages include a standard suite of services including access to newsgroups, up to 9 Verizon.net email accounts, online services, and 10 MB of personal Web space. Optional services are also available for a fee.
Connection speeds are between your location and the Verizon central office serving your location. Actual download and upload speeds will vary based on numerous factors, such as the condition of wiring at your location, computer configuration, Internet and network congestion, and the speed of website servers you access, among other factors. Speed and uninterrupted use of the service are not guaranteed."
The 'condition of the wiring at your location' might effect me. While thier lines are new the house wiring is original from the 1950's when Dad built the place.
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Is it much of a hassle to run a new phone wire from the new hub on the side of the house directly to your dsl modem? Then it will be all brand new wiring for your internet connection.
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You need actual fiber optic cable run in your home, or else there would be no advantage to the service. The problem with cable/DSL/Dialup is that they run at the speed of electricity. Also, each line is only designed to flow so much data. Fiber Optics travels at the speed of light.
Hooking a phone wire up to a FiOS connection would get you the speed of top line DSL, if it were somehow possible.
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Ooz, the speed of digital data flow over any medium is fixed by the clock rate over the medium.
With cable, that is normally around 10MHz, but in newer installations I believe they are getting close to 50MHz, or there abouts. The limitation being the medium.
with FiOS, it is pure fiber optic all the way to the central office. Verizon is currently clocking at 600MHz, but can easily go up to 1.2GHz with the flip of a switch. In a year, they will be able to go to 10GHz. There is fundamentally no clock restrictions with light, until you get to the light wave frequencies.
FiOS has much more bandwidth available, per home, for HD TV, Internet and phone than cable will ever be able to have.
FiOS does require you to maintain the backup battery in the box, as that box is located inside your home or garage. The backup is only used when your home loses power. Which also means your paying for the electricity to power the fiber connection.
Verizon is running fiber optic directly into each home on the service. Each home has its own dedicated fiber link back to the central office. The speed packages start at around 6 or 10Mb/s (I cannot recall and it may vary in each area) and go up to 30Mb/s.
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thats MHz/GHz
what about Mb/s:D ? or Kb/s:noid
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Mb/s = Mega-bit per second
MB/s = Mega-bype per second
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oops,
my bad.
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Oh, the only downside I see in FiOS is the Internet connection is PPPoE only. And for that reason, I am still on DSL. Even though I have all the FiOS equipment attached to my house, and even got the Ethernet cable installed in the wall in my home office.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Ooz, the speed of digital data flow over any medium is fixed by the clock rate over the medium.
With cable, that is normally around 10MHz, but in newer installations I believe they are getting close to 50MHz, or there abouts. The limitation being the medium.
with FiOS, it is pure fiber optic all the way to the central office. Verizon is currently clocking at 600MHz, but can easily go up to 1.2GHz with the flip of a switch. In a year, they will be able to go to 10GHz. There is fundamentally no clock restrictions with light, until you get to the light wave frequencies.
FiOS has much more bandwidth available, per home, for HD TV, Internet and phone than cable will ever be able to have.
FiOS does require you to maintain the backup battery in the box, as that box is located inside your home or garage. The backup is only used when your home loses power. Which also means your paying for the electricity to power the fiber connection.
Verizon is running fiber optic directly into each home on the service. Each home has its own dedicated fiber link back to the central office. The speed packages start at around 6 or 10Mb/s (I cannot recall and it may vary in each area) and go up to 30Mb/s.
I saw Fois is offering several options at several prices.
"Pricing Plan Maximum Connection Speed One-Time
Installation Fee* Monthly
Price
One Year Agreement Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps
Just $29.99 for 1st 6 mos.
plus a $20 Target gift card
when added to your Verizon phone bill FREE $39.99
Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps
Just $39.99 for 1st 6 mos.
plus a $20 Target gift card
when added to your Verizon phone bill FREE $49.99
Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps FREE $179.95 "
Which package would you have to get before it is equivelent to Cable?
or is even the cheapest package already better?
Example. I just ran a test at
http://www.cable-modem.net/features/oct99/speed.html
And my test results were
Your Connection Loaded 322,649 bytes in 0.032 seconds.
Your throughput is 80662 Kbps
Which is better?
One other question.
Does anyone know what channelsFios offers with their package?
their site doesnt seem to say
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Well, seems you already have a 1Gb/s connection, according to the speed test. No need in wasting your time with FiOS as FiOS currently maxes out at about 3MB/sec.
I'll have to revise my numbers as I had no idea cable had gotten so fast. I wonder how they did it and still provide any bandwidht for TV?
Verizon has a pretty comprehensive lineup of HD programming.
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SNO, never had DSL here. I used to be on Earthlink dialup and then went to Adelphia cable. My area was bouth by Time Warner and I have cable with them now.
My bedroom at present is right where the power and phone line attach to the house right above the garage. Therefore it wouldn't be a long run from the input to where it would be used. ATM we have no other computers online.
Mom recently was given an old computer which I was thinking of putting on a LAN but she hasn't even turned it on since I put it together.
DREDIOK, man you got my speed beat by a long shot. I tried that site and got:
Your Connection Loaded 322,649 bytes in 9.062 seconds.
Your throughput is 285 Kbps.
I was wondering about the television channels we'd get with them also.
I did read something about that BBU in the garage. If the man doesn't have it, that's a sure sign.
Not to mention, it costs more so it might make me think about getting a job.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Well, seems you already have a 1Gb/s connection, according to the speed test. No need in wasting your time with FiOS as FiOS currently maxes out at about 3MB/sec.
I'll have to revise my numbers as I had no idea cable had gotten so fast. I wonder how they did it and still provide any bandwidht for TV?
Verizon has a pretty comprehensive lineup of HD programming.
HeHE skuzzy , my 8 mbit capped connection pulled in a blazing 27459kbps. This is at the bottom of the site
Remember, you must clear your browser cache before running this test again.
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heres what i got off that site Dred listed .
Comcast cable Wa.
Speed Test Results
Your Connection Loaded 322,649 bytes in 1.172 seconds.
Your throughput is 2202 Kbps.
just for your comparison /survey .
Heres what i get from this one ... I chose the farthest server from me for the test ...
Speakeasy speed test (http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/)
Last Result:
Download Speed: 4836 kbps (604.5 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 360 kbps (45 KB/sec transfer rate)
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Dont have Fios in my area..yet. but more and more areas near to me are getting it.
If I make the change it will be as much for economics as anything.
Currently paying over $110 per month for internet access and TV alone.
then there is the phone bills which between the cells and the land lines is over another 100.
Needless to say If I can whittle that down some. It would be nice LOL
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Originally posted by Roscoroo
heres what i got off that site Dred listed .
Comcast cable Wa.
Speed Test Results
Your Connection Loaded 322,649 bytes in 1.172 seconds.
Your throughput is 2202 Kbps.
just for your comparison /survey .
Heres what i get from this one ... I chose the farthest server from me for the test ...
Speakeasy speed test (http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/)
Last Result:
Download Speed: 4836 kbps (604.5 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 360 kbps (45 KB/sec transfer rate)
Close ,NY , NY
Last Result:
Download Speed: 6991 kbps (873.9 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 889 kbps (111.1 KB/sec transfer rate
Far, Seattle WA
Last Result:
Download Speed: 5437 kbps (679.6 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 878 kbps (109.8 KB/sec transfer rate
Dallas TX
Last Result:
Download Speed: 6994 kbps (874.3 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 885 kbps (110.6 KB/sec transfer rate
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Not much diff in DL in 8 MB vs 4 MB connections
Rukie has Double the upload speed though .
I had a faster up w'/ my dsl over the cable ... but cable is 2+ times faster down
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and we old cable dogs are very worried about Verizons very deep pockets and the technological edge fiber to the house gives them.
Right now the main difference between a top of the line cable system like ours and FIOS is that we run fiber optic to hubs which then convert the light to coaxial media qhich then goes to the house. We also run the first 80 channels as analog so that a "basic" cable sub can hook up cable directly to his cable ready tv and get cable tv without a box of any kind. Once the bugs are worked out of the FIOS system, it has endless possibilites due to its huge bandwidth advantage.
What some of you may not know is that the phone co's are in the process of getting statewide franchises for their systems. They do not want to have to deal with the local city/county governments as the cable cos have done historically. A state wide franchise will allow them to cherry pick the more affluent neighborhoods for their product whereas the cable cos have to build out any neighborhood who has the homes per mile ratio agreed to in the local franchise.
In the end, I hope FIOS is a better product as I feel they we devour the competion and their choice with 12 months and longer contracts will be the only game in town with no real recourse for poor service if there is any as control over its service at the local level will not be there.
Phone, data, video ... one ring to rule them all ...
speakeasy test:
Atlanta = down 6854 up 492
Seattle = down 65405 up 490
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Originally posted by 38ruk
HeHE skuzzy , my 8 mbit capped connection pulled in a blazing 27459kbps. This is at the bottom of the site
I was being facetious. I klnow there is not a cable connection on the planet running at 1GHz. Speed tests over the Internet have always been a bit of a joke.
Once processors get fast enough, Verizon will be able to offer raw HD feeds to thier customers. That will never happen over a wired media.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Well, seems you already have a 1Gb/s connection, according to the speed test. No need in wasting your time with FiOS as FiOS currently maxes out at about 3MB/sec.
I'll have to revise my numbers as I had no idea cable had gotten so fast. I wonder how they did it and still provide any bandwidht for TV?
Verizon has a pretty comprehensive lineup of HD programming.
That or his connection is proxied and he saw the cache load time :)
Actually upon initial testing I got 655kb/s rating which matches my 8Mbit dsl. Second run opened the image from cache:
Speed Test Results
Your Connection Loaded 322,649 bytes in 0.281 seconds.
Your throughput is 9186 Kbps.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Eagler
and we old cable dogs are very worried about Verizons very deep pockets and the technological edge fiber to the house gives them.
Right now the main difference between a top of the line cable system like ours and FIOS is that we run fiber optic to hubs which then convert the light to coaxial media qhich then goes to the house. We also run the first 80 channels as analog so that a "basic" cable sub can hook up cable directly to his cable ready tv and get cable tv without a box of any kind. Once the bugs are worked out of the FIOS system, it has endless possibilites due to its huge bandwidth advantage.
What some of you may not know is that the phone co's are in the process of getting statewide franchises for their systems. They do not want to have to deal with the local city/county governments as the cable cos have done historically. A state wide franchise will allow them to cherry pick the more affluent neighborhoods for their product whereas the cable cos have to build out any neighborhood who has the homes per mile ratio agreed to in the local franchise.
In the end, I hope FIOS is a better product as I feel they we devour the competion and their choice with 12 months and longer contracts will be the only game in town with no real recourse for poor service if there is any as control over its service at the local level will not be there.
Phone, data, video ... one ring to rule them all ...
speakeasy test:
Atlanta = down 6854 up 492
Seattle = down 65405 up 490
I'd be happy even if they were just an equal product. to provide competition. The cost is just getting to be rediculous and has at times been a serious source of contention in this house.
And its not so much the internet but the TV.
My net connection Im getting for something like $39 per month. which to me having 3+ computers & a game sytem hooked up to it is a bargan
The TV comes out to be another $70!
Thats $70 per month. just for TV!
1 digital box and one premium channel (HBO)
Its rediculous already.
The only reason I have HBO is to watch ROME and as soon as this season is over Im dumping that.
Now you cant say they cant do it for less. Cause all you really have to do is threaton to cancel all service and they all of a sudden come up with a promotion to get you into that makes it ALOT cheaper.
Thing is I shouldnt have to threaton to dump them just to keep their service at a reasonable rate
Now add to that a lane line phone bill and a Cellular phone bill and it comes out to be quite a bit.
I'll never get rid of my land line because there are times when for whatever reason cells, mine or other peoples just dont always get a perfect connection no matter what the "Can you hear me now" man says LOL
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there will be competetion (better pricing) for a while, until they force the rest of us out of business .. then wait until the old MA bells are the only game in town for your phone, data and video services, you thought the cable cos were bad .. :)
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I was being facetious. I klnow there is not a cable connection on the planet running at 1GHz. Speed tests over the Internet have always been a bit of a joke.
Once processors get fast enough, Verizon will be able to offer raw HD feeds to thier customers. That will never happen over a wired media.
lol skuzzy i know , i remember when you were a service provider . That stuff at the bottom of the site wasn't intended for you . 38
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The TV comes out to be another $70!
I have Dish Network and it works pretty good IMO . They just installed the
"Dish 500" dish for free for me cause they uped the channel again and I couldn't get them on my old outside dish . They said I had had their service for 9 years , 3 months so far . NO CABLE to be had were I live . In the middle of a corn field some say , lmao . I also have to have wireless broadband as I live to far out to get DSL also . But it works ok so far , 3 years now .
42.99 a month for 200 channels , course you don't want to watch alot of that trash .
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Originally posted by airspro
I have Dish Network and it works pretty good IMO . They just installed the
"Dish 500" dish for free for me cause they uped the channel again and I couldn't get them on my old outside dish . They said I had had their service for 9 years , 3 months so far . NO CABLE to be had were I live . In the middle of a corn field some say , lmao . I also have to have wireless broadband as I live to far out to get DSL also . But it works ok so far , 3 years now .
42.99 a month for 200 channels , course you don't want to watch alot of that trash .
You can get cable, although it may become a little expensive. :D
The problem with paying for 200 channels is that you never get to use 90% of the channels. I have about 20 or so paid channels and 2000 free channels and I can't even go through them all in one evening to see if something good is on somewhere. So I stick with the 4-5 channels which are usually the best and cycle through them. Unless I'm really bored and prepared to spend 2 hours just switching channels. :O
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Here is my connection to the site referenced above. According to them my download is over the speed of a full T1 connection at home. http://www.cable-modem.net/perf.html Crazy huh!?!?!
Speed Test Results
Your Connection Loaded 322,649 bytes in 1.282 seconds.
Your throughput is 2013 Kbps.
About the Results
The results are reported in kilobits per second (Kbps). As a point of comparison, a 56K dial-up modem offers a maximum download speed of 53 Kbps.
Because this test measured the download speed of a single file from the CABLE-MODEM.NET server to your computer, it may not be indicative of the actual bandwidth available through your modem or its access speeds to other Web sites. Remember, you must clear your browser cache before running this test again.
Now tested both upload and download at speakeasy.net
They show me with a 4839kbps download/469kbps upload off the Seattle, WA server. They show my speed on the San Francisco, CA server as 4757kbps download/464kbps upload.
Still according to everything I know that puts me way over a dedicated T1 connection.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Oh, the only downside I see in FiOS is the Internet connection is PPPoE only. And for that reason, I am still on DSL. Even though I have all the FiOS equipment attached to my house, and even got the Ethernet cable installed in the wall in my home office.
Ohhh...that's a pity. Why?
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my speed with my wireless connetion
Your Connection Loaded 322,649 bytes in 4.907 seconds.
Your throughput is 526 Kbps.
The problem with paying for 200 channels is that you never get to use 90% of the channels.
Got to get 200 to get the good ones that I do want to watch :P
About 15 or so of those are good for me . Wife likes differant , go figure , so add another 5 or so , I guess we look at 20 tops of that bunch .
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Oh, the only downside I see in FiOS is the Internet connection is PPPoE only. And for that reason, I am still on DSL. Even though I have all the FiOS equipment attached to my house, and even got the Ethernet cable installed in the wall in my home office.
DSL service here through Bellsouth (now AT&T) is only available as PPPoE. In my opinion that is one reason my service when I have had DSL always sucked monkey nuts.
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Originally posted by Puck
Ohhh...that's a pity. Why?
PPPoE sucks. More prone to problems due to router/terminal server overhead for the encapsualtion and decapsulation of the data packet.
Absolutely no benefit to the user. The only benefit is to the ISP who wants to control the connection, but is too lazy to deal with a non-PPPoE connection.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
PPPoE sucks. More prone to problems due to router/terminal server overhead for the encapsualtion and decapsulation of the data packet.
Absolutely no benefit to the user. The only benefit is to the ISP who wants to control the connection, but is too lazy to deal with a non-PPPoE connection.
Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Why?
I thought PPoE was banned by recent Geneva conventions as cruel and unusual punishment. They might as well frame it Fibre and make it completely, rather than mostly, useless.
Ohhhh...I just had an evil thought. Advertise the native speed of the fiber, run it PPoE to choke it down, and make them pay for fiber speeds...
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It's nmot like they need to throttle it down any further. They already handicap the poop out of the connection by supplying the cheapest DLink router they could get.
Sheesh. I could hand encode data faster than that router does it.
You have to give them credit though. They own all the fiber they are placing in the ground, outright. The government cannot force them to share it with anyone, unless the government wants to buy it all from Verizon.
In the long run, Verizon is going to own/control a vaste portion of the data distribution network in this country.
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I just got this rather vivid visual of a vi session full of 1s and 0s with the IP and TCP headers in templates and the data packet built with a binary ASCII chart.
Would that cause lag in the main arena?
What's the ASCII code for a 37mm HE round?
:D
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Nah, use vi to create the templates, then use sed to fill them on the fly and route it to the open fd, making sure to configure the fd with proper stty parameters. One for reading, one for writing.
Could toss in some rudimentary header checks and timers.
Bingo, a DLink router, only faster. :D
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That's not encoding by hand then, is it? If you're using sed you might as well be using perl. Perl leads to C, C leads to .NET, .NET leads to suffering...
NOT a DLink router. [Your method] would work.
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Man I need a translator.
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Sorry. That was a total hijack; my apologies, but you will land this thread in Cuba or I start shorting out bits.
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I don't consider it a hijack and I started the darn thing.
I'm glad you asked because I had no idea what PPPoE was and was embarrassed to show my ingorance.
I got alot of that to show too, believe me.
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Originally posted by Puck
That's not encoding by hand then, is it? If you're using sed you might as well be using perl. Perl leads to C, C leads to .NET, .NET leads to suffering...
NOT a DLink router. [Your method] would work.
Hehe. Man, that was a leap Puck. From C to .NET? ROFL! I dunt(tm) do Perl anyway. I went straight from shell programming, to assembly, to C. .NET is an abomination. People who use it are not programmers. Applications which use it (I cannot bring myself to say, "written to use it". You are not writting anything. You are being lead about the nose by MS) are the worst things to happen to the computer.
We did sort of hijack this thread. Sorry fuzeman. Happens when a couple of UNIX pukes get together. If you think it is bad on a forum, you should see what happens if they meet at a Starbuck's!
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Makes me feel worse. I used to know Unix when TRW trained me on Altos computers.
I still need a translator.
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It's easy to forget. I STARTED on bitnet and VAX/PDP/11s. Can't remember DCL at all, and would probably be lost on a VAX command line.
CMS...well...I used electroshock therapy to FORGET that one...