Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Pyro on March 22, 2007, 12:35:59 PM
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I mentioned in another thread that we would be taking a vote for the next new plane to add. It will probably be a series of votes(using in-game polling system) to cull it down to 2 entries for a final vote. Here's a list of commonly requested planes off the top of my head. This is for new planes only, not variants of existing planes. I've excluded heavy bombers for now because we don't want that big of a project for the next plane. Half of this list doesn't have a chance anyway so I can't imagine anything else not on this list having a shot at winning but feel free to state your case anyway. I still have to figure out how to structure the runoff.
Here's the preliminary list of the candidates.
P-39
Brewster Buffalo
Me 410
He 111
B-25
Pe-2 or Tu-2
Yak 3
G.55
Japanese fighter - Ki 44, J2M, Ki 45, or Ki 43
A-26
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He-111
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Aww man, here comes trouble.
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P39 Aircobra and the Heinkel 111:aok
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OMG! G.55, Me410, B-25, *AND* He111 all in the same vote?!?!?!
OMG OMG! THANK YOU! That's 4 times the chance to get something that'll put a huge grin on my face :P
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Pyro, if you need in cockpit shots of the He-111 I can give you a contact that'll put you in the drivers seat over at Addison... you know where.
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Which is the most heavily armed? Aw man, this going to be a tough call.
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I also have some resources, including drawings, of the inside of the rear fuselage of earlier models. They changed very little behind the cockpit as they were improved.
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As posted in another thread:
(http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/fiat/fiat_g55-archivio_ami01.jpg)
3 20mm guns, 2 12.7 MGs, 620 km/h at 7.100 m, suited for high altitude combat (remember, CT is coming!), more maneuverable than C. 205 (the N version), evaluated by Luftwaffe as superior to 190 and 109 at high altitude (above 6.000 m)...
What do you want more??? :D
Hub, this is your plane!! ;)
And think about it, gents (and people at HTC): Aces High would be the only game out there that allow people to fly this great plane! Isn't it worth it! :)
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HS-129!!!
(http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~tc4y-kk/airimage/img2/hs129_04.jpg)
Or a MS-406!!!!
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LMBO, Waffle, you're just evil, man!
That being said, I'd hit it!
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1st choise
P-39 some 9500 built.
Served pretty much everywhere. You name a place there was probably a P-39.
Helps fills early early plane set.
Helps fill Russian plane set.
Nice variant selection.
D, Q and P-400 and Russian speced
2nd choice Early Japanese AC
Obviously just because the set is so lacking.
Bronk
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Brewster Model 239 !! ;)
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Pyro, while adding new planes sounds good I would also like to know how the updating of the old models is proceeding. Any news?
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Pe-2 and P39
The Russians could use a couple early war planes.
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I can't pick just one!
:cry
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Originally posted by Wmaker
Brewster Model 239 !! ;)
u got my vote!
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P-39/P-400
B-25
A-26
Mostly because I have friends and family that flew them.
Me 410
Ki 43
G 55
Because they're needed for the Axis.
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P-39/P-400
'
ill second that!
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Originally posted by a frog in desperate need of help...
I can't pick just one! :cry
Then listen to me, or better, my signature... support the G.55!! All the other planes have lot of supporters!!!! Help me!!!!!!!! :)
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I vote this
(http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/war/faf/brewster/bw372_13_600w.jpg)
Brewster Model 239 !!
Time for the Brewster (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52235&highlight=brewster)
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
Hub, this is your plane!! ;)
And think about it, gents (and people at HTC): Aces High would be the only game out there that allow people to fly this great plane! Isn't it worth it! :)
But it's smurfy! I'm leaning toward the P-39 series, or the 410.
Pyro, I know you love these kinds of questions, but, as a very vague generalization, is there any chance of the perked ordnance thing making it's way into the game in the forseeable future?
I would think the planes like the 410, and perhaps the P39 would be probable candidates for receiving a wide variety of loadouts. If that was indeed the case, then planes that filled a variety of roles, or were fitted with a wide array of weapon types, would add more to the game in a single package.
Hell, anything we get to pick is probably going to be quite popular anyway. Just give us something. :)
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:furious It's not smurfy!!! It's a beauty!!! If only I could find a picture of it in flight... and they're all b/w.... sigh... :(
P.s. Btw, stepping for a second aside from the lobbying thing, we'd really need all of them...
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
:furious It's not smurfy!!! It's a beauty!!! If only I could find a picture of it in flight... and they're all b/w.... sigh... :(
Hehe now you know why they started making sports cars.
Because their ac were so smurfy.:p :D
Bronk
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Brewster.
And G.55, or Yak3, or Heinkel111, or...
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:lol Well, we did really well, then! :)
But again.... it's not smurfy!!! :furious :D
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(http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Oshkosh2003/Fighters/PolikarpovI16WheelsDown.jpg)
General characteristics
• Crew: one pilot
• Length: 6.13 m (20.1 ft)
• Wingspan: 9.00 m (29.5 ft)
• Height: 2.25 m (7.38 ft)
• Wing area: 14.54 m² (156.5 ft²)
• Empty weight: 1,383 kg (3,049 lb)
• Loaded weight: 1,882 kg (4,149 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 2,050 kg (4,520 lb)
• Powerplant: 1× Shvetsov M-63 air-cooled radial engine, 670 kW (900 hp) driving a two-blade propeller
Performance
• Maximum speed: 460 km/h (290 mph)
• Range: 440 km (275 mi)
• Service ceiling: 9,700 m (31,800 ft)
• Rate of climb: 14.7 m/s (2,900 ft/min)
• Wing loading: 129 kg/m² (26 lb/ft²)
• Power/mass: 0.36 kW/kg (0.22 hp/lb)
Armament
• 4× fixed forward-firing 7.62 mm (.30 cal) ShKAS machine guns, a total of 3,100 rounds of ammunition.
• 6× RS-82 rockets or up to 100 kg (220 lb) of bombs
Built from 1933 through 1941 with over half still in service in 1943 the Polikarpov IL-16 was a historically significant aircraft. I was the worlds first monoplane fighter, the first with retractable landing gear, and the first with a closed cockpit (some versions). It was built in many varients over it's lifespan but the type 24 was the most used varient in WWII. The type 28 replaces two of the 7.62 mm ShKAS with to 20mm ShVAK cannons.
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How about this? I know, not a photo, but it's in color!
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/858_1174587932_hunting_party_by_zoernig.jpg)
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Brewster.
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410 or g.55
can't decide which to vote for.
main reason: diversity in the MA. G.55 for a new Italian plane that can fight spits, 410 for a "mossie" type attacker / fighter
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My votes go to
HE 111
P 39
I have never seen either one of these aircraft modeled in any flight sim. I find this unusual since they were a mainstream aircraft for their period of WWII.
I have seen a P-39 in a flight museum. That airframe is very small. Should be interesting if that is one selected.
Later,
kaybayray
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P39 all the way. Was a widely used type.
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Great, Krusty, that will do! :)
JB, as I said to Kermit:
Then listen to me, or better, my signature... support the G.55!! All the other planes have lot of supporters!!!! Help me!!!!!!!! (oh, well... and Krusty, of course! :D)
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I'm a Yak nut, so Yak3.
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B-25H/J models. The H would not have formations and either gun option would work 4 .50's + 75mm or the 8 .50's, J would have formations and need para frags for both of them as a loadout option.
P-39 in any variant would be nice.
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Brewster and after that HE-111 :)
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Originally posted by Pyro
Brewster Buffalo
Of course, Brewster Model 239.
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Brewster Model 239 :aok :aok
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HE 111
HE 111
HE 111
HE 111
HE 111
HE 111
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I point my votes for these:
1st: BREWSTER
2nd: BREWSTER
3rd: BREWSTER
:D :D :D
Just in case...if there are any other competing planes in area, they will be shot down by Brewster pilots!!!
:rofl
:aok
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He111 doesn't add anything that the Ju88A-4 doesn't already functionally bring to AH. It plugs no holes at all.
P-39 is not early war Russian.
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:D Brewster Model 239:D :aok
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He-111
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Originally posted by Karnak
P-39 is not early war Russian.
If this was aimed at my post.
I didn't say early war Russian.
Early war was aimed at US.
While the Russian was a separate issue.
Just to be clear.
Bronk
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Brewster :D .... and then an early war Soviet counter part for it (LaGG3, I-16,...)
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One of the Yak-3s with two ShVAK or B-20 cannon configuration (VK-108, thought thats being hopeful)
The Yak-9U would be my primary aircraft if not for armament and firing time. I prefer the 2x ShVAK 20mm La-5FN to the -9U as it is.
The Pe-2 would be a nice attack aircraft as well.
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Brewster model 239:aok
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He111 doesn't add anything that the Ju88A-4 doesn't already functionally bring to AH. It plugs no holes at all.
This from someone wanting an updated mossie cause it just aint a big enough monster as is. Tour 83 I was 57 and 12 in the current mossie.
If you want scenarios you gotta have the He-111 or you can't do a real BoB.
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My top three are the He-111, B-25, and the G55.
The He-111 is needed to fill in the early war LW bombers (I'd like to see the Do17 also).
The B25 - so useful in events and the AvA and it would be a hoot in the arenas.
The G55 to add to the Italian fleet (I'd like to see an Italian bomber also).
Followed closely by my next to top three:
P-39, Yak 3 and Pe2 to fill out the USSR fleet.
and then:
the vader as a perked bomber :).
Cheers,
asw
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p-39
he-111
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My list of things I'd like on the list:
B239 Buffalo
B-25C
D4Y2 "Judy"
J2M3a Raiden
Ju188A-2
I-16-24
Ki-43-II-Otsu
Ki-44-II-Otsu
Me410
Pe-2
Wellington B.MK III
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Yak-3 is pretty much a variant. More metal than the -9, some minor shape changes, but you could argue the same about an F4U-1/1A/1C/4...just minor tweaks and good skinning. I'm translating the pilot's manual and cockpit diagram for the -3 now, just because it's cool (slow going...adding new words to my vocabulary).
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P-39.. would be an awesome addition! Or how about a Mig-3? Dunno much about them but man, its a pretty plane!
Phoenixx
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This one:
(http://www.virtualpilots.fi/en/hist/kuvat/ww2history-windvideo1.jpg)
"In October, 1977, I had the privilege and honor to have a few fairly lengthy conversations in a relatively private atmosphere with Greg Boyington. He seemed a hard, inwardly angry man. By this I mean, he never had it easy and this came through in his demeanor. His speech was rather gruff, he rarely spoke unless spoken to first and his answers to questions came quickly, brusquely and to the point. He had no qualms about his liking of alcohol, constantly nursing beers as we spoke. Coors, as I recall.
I remember asking him about the Brewster Buffalo (Then, Now and Always, my favorite aircraft). I had no sooner finished saying the word 'Buffalo', when he slammed his beer can down on the table, and practicaly snarled, "It was a DOG!" (His emphasis). Then he slowly leaned back in his chair and after a moment quietly said, "But the early models, before they weighed it all down with armorplate, radios and other ****, they were pretty sweet little ships. Not real fast, but the little ****s could turn and roll in a phonebooth. Oh yeah--sweet little ship; but some engineer went and ****ed it up." With that he reached for his beer and was silent again. After that answer, I somehow had the feeling that I had just gotten a glimpse into Boyington's attitude towards life in general. "
http://www.warbirdforum.com/pappy.htm
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Brewster Model 239 because....you know why.
-C+
PS. secondary votes for ME410 and P39.
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p-39
or the p-39 on steroids---the p-63 king cobra!!!!
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I wonder if Boyington ever flew either early or late models. He went from Flying Tigers to US Navy [edit: or was it Marines?], and neither flew them.
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P-39
Guys, stop asking for bombers are he already stated new bombers will not see the light of day for this version.
at least the 39 will give americans russians and the british another plane.
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
Guys, stop asking for bombers are he already stated new bombers will not see the light of day for this version.
No, he said HEAVY bombers would not be considered.
I've excluded heavy bombers for now because we don't want that big of a project for the next plane.
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He-111 or Ki-45
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Brewster model 239 :)
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Brewster Model 239 !! :aok
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Brewster FTW!
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The G55 but in reality all those designs are good and needed
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B-25 or A-26
We meed more medium alt bombers.
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P39...then A26
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Thanks Storch, nice taste you have! :D
Originally posted by KayBayRay
HE 111 P 39
I have never seen either one of these aircraft modeled in any flight sim. I find this unusual since they were a mainstream aircraft for their period of WWII.
Check IL2, they are there, since the beginning of the series.
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Originally posted by Wmaker
Brewster Model 239 !! ;)
I agree.
Camo
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He-111 or Ki-43.....
I never look what a plane will do for the MA's.
LOOK FOR WHAT THEY WILL ADD TO SCENARIOS!!!!
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Yak-3 A26
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p-39 / me410
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While some of the planes on that list are sorely needed to round out the planeset, I think one of the most interesting choices didn't even make the list:
P-61 Black Widow
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G-55
shamus
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A 26 / Tu-2
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My vote is Tempest. :aok
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Originally posted by Puck
Yak-3 is pretty much a variant. More metal than the -9, some minor shape changes, but you could argue the same about an F4U-1/1A/1C/4...just minor tweaks and good skinning. I'm translating the pilot's manual and cockpit diagram for the -3 now, just because it's cool (slow going...adding new words to my vocabulary).
I always thought the Yak-3 (a late model that came after the Yak-9) was significantly different: lighter and more manouverable. Indeed it is called a "light" fighter as oppossed to the longer indurance "heavy" fighter Yak-9. Squadron pub 1078 gives the following specs:
Yak-3: Empty weight 4642 lbs, 1244hp, top speed 404 mph
Yak-9D: Empty weight 6107 lbs, 1360hp, top speed 374 mph
Armament is nearly the same (Yak-3 has two 12.7 mm vs 1 for the Yak-9D- both have one 20mm ShVAK).
You are right, however, they look very similar and visually it is just a variant. Performance wise, however, the Yak-3 would be a significant improvement.
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My vote : Yak 3
Originally posted by Puck
Yak-3 is pretty much a variant. More metal than the -9, some minor shape changes, but you could argue the same about an F4U-1/1A/1C/4...just minor tweaks and good skinning. I'm translating the pilot's manual and cockpit diagram for the -3 now, just because it's cool (slow going...adding new words to my vocabulary).
Are you sure of that ?
I think you need to document you better.
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A-26
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P-38H!... I mean P-39!
:noid
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Originally posted by 715
I always thought the Yak-3 (a late model that came after the Yak-9) was significantly different: lighter and more manouverable. Indeed it is called a "light" fighter as oppossed to the longer indurance "heavy" fighter Yak-9. Squadron pub 1078 gives the following specs:
Yak-3: Empty weight 4642 lbs, 1244hp, top speed 404 mph
Yak-9D: Empty weight 6107 lbs, 1360hp, top speed 374 mph
Armament is nearly the same (Yak-3 has two 12.7 mm vs 1 for the Yak-9D- both have one 20mm ShVAK).
You are right, however, they look very similar and visually it is just a variant. Performance wise, however, the Yak-3 would be a significant improvement.
I absolutely want the Yak-3 (hence the deciphering of all those funny letters), but I would not consider it a new airframe. Update the Yak-9T/U and making a Yak-1/3 is just a matter of tweaking the existing shape, changing the flight model, and skinning it for the material and construction variations.
Pyro was asking about a new airframe; I thought the Yak-3 did not belong on the list. If he's asking about updating models, that's different :)
I can't wait to make the White Rose of Stalingrad, even if there is no documented evidence there was ever a white rose (or lilly) on the sides. Does make you wonder a bit about some other parts of the legend.
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Originally posted by straffo
My vote : Yak 3
Are you sure of that ?
I think you need to document you better.
Yup. Pretty sure. The -3 had the same cut down fuselage as the -9, though I believe it flew with four blades rather than three on the screw. Same wing-root intakes, same belly coolers, same gun package. Making the -1 would require a different fuselage profile, but otherwise it's also pretty close.
They didn't change the DESIGN, they changed the construction. Photos to arrive by post.
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Puck there is more differences between the yak 3 and 9 than between the P51B and D
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but, how to vote? give a week for everybody to submit a top 5.......remove lowest vote getters, and round robin eliminate until the we get our chosen aircraft? Like delegates at a convention.
There are (to me anyway) valid reasons to bring 5 of the aircraft on that list into the game. Probably not the same 5 that someone else is thinking, but what the hey.
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P-39.
It deserves it, the fighter with unique fortune.
In the most difficult years of the war on Eastern front it was P-39 which helped to get air superiority, La-5FN and Yak-3 came later.
Pokryshkin, the second best Russian pilot (59 kills) flew P-39 till the end of the war despite huge pressure from Soviet leaders.
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Originally posted by Pyro
I mentioned in another thread that we would be taking a vote for the next new plane to add. It will probably be a series of votes(using in-game polling system) to cull it down to 2 entries for a final vote. Here's a list of commonly requested planes off the top of my head. This is for new planes only, not variants of existing planes. I've excluded heavy bombers for now because we don't want that big of a project for the next plane. Half of this list doesn't have a chance anyway so I can't imagine anything else not on this list having a shot at winning but feel free to state your case anyway. I still have to figure out how to structure the runoff.
Here's the preliminary list of the candidates.
P-39
Brewster Buffalo
Me 410
He 111
B-25
Pe-2 or Tu-2
Yak 3
G.55
Japanese fighter - Ki 44, J2M, Ki 45, or Ki 43
A-26
FAIREY FIREFLY!
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P-39
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As anyone who can remember my 37mm "Trick Shooting Exhibition" for Bob Shaw's benefit at the 2000 Palm Springs Con would know, my vote goes like this:
P-39!
P-39!!
P-39!!!
P-39!!!!
P-39!!!!!
P-39!!!!!!
P-39!!!!!!!
and the G.55
That's right. I'd get 4 other guys drunk and steal their votes.
And then for fun, 6 months later, take 80% of the resources spent on making the P-39 and make the P-63. That's almost two for the price of one.
-Llama
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No on the Firefly. We don't need a 2 seat CV tempest.
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I'd have to say P-63 before the P-39; the Kingcobra would see much more use; I'd hate to see another hangar queen (which I really feel the P-39 would become). The Russians had huge numbers of the Kingcobra. The US failed to use them because of their similar performance to the Mustang.
G-55 would see the most use...
My favorite would be the ME-410...
But I have to vote Brewster, just because of the desire for that particular plane over the past few years. It's well overdue!
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
No. It would be like a 2 seat tempest, and would utterly ruin the game.
You utterly ruin the game.
Can we vote to take Hub aka Furboll out of the game?
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A26
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KI43 Please :)
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Originally posted by Warspawn
The Russians had huge numbers of the Kingcobra.
Ah, but how many of those saw any action in WWII, only a handful.
So I'm still voting for the Brewster.
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How much are you Finn's gonna pay me to vote Brewster?
Heck, i will even make you a "VOTE BREWSTER!" logo avatar if your price is right... :D
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In no paticular order,.. A26,G55,Me410,P39 well ok alphabetical order
:noid
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Easy...
He-111 :)
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Originally posted by Ball
How much are you Finn's gonna pay me to vote Brewster?
Heck, i will even make you a "VOTE BREWSTER!" logo avatar if your price is right... :D
Meet us here (http://www.tracklogix.fi:8080/llv32/ahmeet/en/) and I will offer you free beer as much you can handle.
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(http://www.jtsystems.demon.co.uk/duma/images/cartoons/looserivets/200700.gif)
Bronk
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Originally posted by Panzzer
Ah, but how many of those saw any action in WWII, only a handful.
Are you daft? I have a few P-63 and P-39 books at home (and not with me here at work), but Wikipedia essentially mirrors what my books say:
"In the Far East, P-63 and P-39 aircraft were used in "August Storm," the Soviet invasion of Manchukoku and northern Korea."
and
"By a 1943 agreement, P-63s were disallowed for Soviet use against Germany and were supposed to be concentrated in the Soviet Far East for an eventual attack on Japan. However, there are many unconfirmed reports from both the Soviet and German side that P-63s did indeed see service against the Luftwaffe. Most notably, one of Pokryshkin's pilots reports in his memoirs published in the 1990s that the entire 4th GvIAP was secretly converted to P-63s in 1944, while officially still flying P-39s. One account states they were in action at Koenigsberg, in Poland and in the final assault on Berlin. There are German reports of P-63s shot down by both fighters and flak. Nevertheless, all Soviet records show nothing but P-39s used against Germany."
And as for their numbers:
"Russian ferry pilots, many of them women, would take delivery of the aircraft at Nome and fly them to the Soviet Union over the Bering Strait. 2,397 such aircraft were delivered, out of the total 3,303 production aircraft (72.6%)."
Hardly an insignificant amount...
-Llama
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Only a handful of Kingcobras joined VVS regiments in the European theatre during WW II (e.g. 6 GIAK got six Kingcobras in May 1945, used by 67 GIAP in the Berlin operation).
This from Geust-Petrov: Red Stars 4 - Lend-Lease Fighters.
The King Cobra was used in numbers only in Manchuria later in the war.
EDIT: LLama, as said the KingCobra was mostly used in the Manchurian front, which probably isn't the most prominent front on this game. Total of 2400 P-63s were received in Russia for that purpose. /EDIT
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Pyro,
Furballers will always pick a fighter and Buff
lovers will choose a bomber. Why not
alternate releases to please both groups?
Next release a fighter, the following
a bomber...that would help narrow the vote
down to a more manageable level.
...always thinking...its my curse. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by SASMOX
Meet us here (http://www.tracklogix.fi:8080/llv32/ahmeet/en/) and I will offer you free beer as much you can handle.
Ok, Sasmox has the lighter drinks department handled.
I promise to supply the booze! :cool:
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Originally posted by Panzzer
Ah, but how many of those saw any action in WWII, only a handful.
Large numbers were deployed and used; unfortunately their actual use was supressed due to Stalin's desire that Soviet aircraft be awarded the credit for air victories. Yeah, conspiracy theory time, but over 2,200 P-63 Kingcobra aircraft shipped to the USSR starting in 1943 and not used much? Kursk was in July of that year; I'm certain that the Soviets used whatever was availble during that time. I voted Brewster in any case, heh...
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I vote for the HE111 and P39 cobra..
Why don't just add them all.. :D
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Originally posted by SASMOX
I vote this
(http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/war/faf/brewster/bw372_13_600w.jpg)
Brewster Model 239 !!
Time for the Brewster (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52235&highlight=brewster)
Second that!
The most successful airframe in WW2, American built quality. :cool:
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i checked the picture of last year's meeting... there are far too many men with long hair in that picture.
therefore i decided to make you the avatar anyway and will keep well away. :D
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Originally posted by Ball
i checked the picture of last year's meeting... there are far too many men with long hair in that picture.
therefore i decided to make you the avatar anyway and will keep well away. :D
:rofl
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Oh... what about the Meteor III?
Come on, bring another Jet to AH :D
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Only a handful of Kingcobras joined VVS regiments in the European theatre during WW II (e.g. 6 GIAK got six Kingcobras in May 1945, used by 67 GIAP in the Berlin operation).
Wasq, if you have the book near, could you check what it said about the nasty stalling of the Kingcobra? Should be close to your above quote.
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Originally posted by wasq
This from Geust-Petrov: Red Stars 4 - Lend-Lease Fighters.
The King Cobra was used in numbers only in Manchuria later in the war.
EDIT: LLama, as said the KingCobra was mostly used in the Manchurian front, which probably isn't the most prominent front on this game. Total of 2400 P-63s were received in Russia for that purpose. /EDIT
As opposed to the horde of Brewsters that were produced, say around 509?
Bronk
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Brewsters would be fine for any Midway scenario....
Problem is...
they got slaughtered! (15 of 25 went down)
You sure you want a Buffalo?
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Originally posted by Ball
How much are you Finn's gonna pay me to vote Brewster?
Heck, i will even make you a "VOTE BREWSTER!" logo avatar if your price is right... :D
Originally posted by Furball
ok! im coverted!!!!!! after flying in the CT last night and getting 26:0 in the FM2 (simulating brewster for finnish terrain). I have come to the conclusion that we must have the brewster!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Bronk
As opposed to the horde of Brewsters that were produced, say around 509?
Bronk
But the impact was huge. At least for us Finns. As stated somewhere above, the Brewsters served as front line fighters for 3 years. And Finland bought an astounding number of them, 44 IIRC!
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P39 with a big gun.
The Ki45 if it's the Hei or Cho.
Isn't the 410 just a better 110?
The 111 doesn't do much as Karnak says.
Pyro, how about some new guns for existing planes? If it doesn't take too much time.. Some of the ground attack planes don't have the bigger guns they used as often as those we have.
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Originally posted by 96Delta
Brewsters would be fine for any Midway scenario....
Problem is...
they got slaughtered!
You sure you want a Buffalo?
The FAF version was pretty far from slaughtered. Hans Wind gained 39 aerial victories with it, Illu Juutilainen 36. BW-364 airframe (which belonged to I.Juutilainen) destroyed 42½ enemy planes singlehandedly.
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I don't want another American plane, but i am sure one will win the vote. Therefore might as well make it as un-american as possible. :D
Personally i would like: -
Meteor III
Fairey Firefly
Tu-2 or Pe-2
In that order.
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Originally posted by 96Delta
Brewsters would be fine for any Midway scenario....
Problem is...
they got slaughtered! (15 of 25 went down)
You sure you want a Buffalo?
No, we want the unarmored B-239 model which was by far the most succesful figter airframe produced in the WW2.
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It's too bad we can only get one.
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Originally posted by Panzzer
Wasq, if you have the book near, could you check what it said about the nasty stalling of the Kingcobra? Should be close to your above quote.
No, there's no mention of stalling but ...
As mentioned above, the mid-air disintegration of the Aircobras and in particular A.G. Kochetkov's narrow escape during a test flight at the Bell Factory in Buffalo, N.Y. with P-63 Kingcobra 42-68939 ...
Indicates that there were indeed problems with the airframe. Only later variants of the Kingcobras were fixed.
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I would have to agree with ball...Meteor III.
Kevin:aok
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He-111 or the TU-2
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I'd really like to see a Russian Bomber in the set
then the Brewster
B-25
P-39
Then another German buff He-111 or 410
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Originally posted by Bronk
LLama, as said the KingCobra was mostly used in the Manchurian front, which probably isn't the most prominent front on this game. Total of 2400 P-63s were received in Russia for that purpose. /EDIT
I'm sorry. I didn't realize we were talking about WWI battlefronts - just use in WWII itself. When has battlefront popularity ever been an issue?
If 2000 P-63's were used in the Manchurian front, then there were still 2000 of them used in WWII, compared to, say, the 200 C-Hogs ever built, or the 67 TA-152s ever built, the 200 or so ME262s that made it to combat units.
At a minimum, there were an order of magnitude more P-63s in the war than C-hogs.
-Llama
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That is very true, and I don't dispute it.
I just want to see Brewster before P-39 & P-63 :)
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Im going with the G55 and the B25
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You know, now that I think about it, what I'd love to see is a Ki-100.
It was basically a ki-61 airframe but with a powerful and reliable radial engine, and two cannon and two MG. Later models were purpose-built for the radial, and had a bubble canopy. What resulted was, to, again, quote wikipedia because all my books are at home:
"The Ki-100 was soon encountered in combat by Allied forces, and it was rated by them as a first-class combat machine. A well-handled Ki-100 was able to out-maneuver any American fighter, and was (more or less) equally fast to them, specially at medium altitudes. In one encounter over Okinawa, one Ki-100-equipped unit destroyed 14 Hellcats without losses to themselves.[citation needed] The Ki-100 was also able to match the P-51D Mustangs and the P-47N Thunderbolts which were escorting the B-29 raids over Japan by that time, and in the hands of an experienced pilot, it could defeat them (the Army's Ki-84 and the Navy's Kawanishi N1K-J being the only other types able to achieve this). Against the B-29s themselves, however, things began to get difficult for the Japanese fighters, as the engine's performance decreased at high altitudes."
"Although slow in level flight for 1945, Ki-100 could dive with P-51 Mustangs unlike most Japanese fighters and hold the speed on pullout. The cannons had 250 20x94 mm rounds/gun, each projectile weighing 112 g (armor-piercing) or 79 g 12% high explosive. Muzzle velocity was 700 (730 HE) m/s (2,300 ft/s; 2,400 ft/s) giving an effective range of 900 m (2,950 ft). The 850 rounds/min firing rate decreased by roughly 27% when synchronized through the propeller. Still, it remained fast enough (620.5 rounds/min) even by Western standards. The wings carried 250 12.7x81 mm rounds/gun. Each machine gun bullet weighed 35.4 g AP (33-38 g 2.2%HE) and had a muzzle velocity of 760 m/s (770-796 HE) (2,450 ft/s; 2,500-2,600 ft/s) giving an effective range of 750 m (2,460 m). Rate of fire was 900 rounds/min. Unlike nearly all other Japanese military aircraft, the Ki-100 was not given an allied codename, a very glaring omission considering that the aircraft was frequently encountered in combat during the last months of the war."
This also seems like most of the work is done, in the form of the KI-61 we already have...
-Llama
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Although the P-39 is my sentimental favorite, there is a serious lack of Japanese, Italian and Russian Aircraft in the set. To all of you, voting for the Buffalo, plz put aside sentiment for a moment and replace it with practicality. Though it would be nice to have (as all the A/C on the list would), there is NOT a pressing need for it at all IMO. Even in scenarios/events it wouldnt be a desirable A/C to be assigned to (except for a handful of our Finnish population). Just my .02.
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I'm all about either the A-26 or the B-25. Preferably the B-25.
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(http://www.eads.net/xml/content/OF00000000400004/9/72/541729.jpg)
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Has to be the G.55
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<----------------Ki-44 shoki allied code name Tojo. My pick
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what is the fastest? is the Brewster fast? if not i think ill vote the G.55 :)
Also whats got best guns?
Doc
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P-39
Frodo
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i don,t see a problem with the brewster being added to the ah line up.
however i think it will probably wind up being used mostly in ew & mw arenas.
it will probably get alot of use at 1st in all arenas
but when the "newness" wears off, it will go the way of the jeep.
i think the p-39 will get more extensive use.
i read a pretty good story on the brewster,called "the sorry saga of the brewster buffalo". pretty good article.
just type in a search for it.
the brewster also made it into BOTH worlds worst aircraft books.
personally i don,t think its a bad choice
it just wouldn,t be my 1st choice.
peace out,
Boner
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IL- 10
P- 39
Hs- 129 with PaK 40L 75 mm anti tank gun
There can be no such thing,in law or in morality,as actions forbidden to an individual,but permitted to a mob. Ayn Rand
WHAT KIND OF PLACE IS THIS !!!!!!! . Patrick
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P39, an obvious choice
The Betty (Japanese bomber)
He111
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:noid
P39 and Brewster
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Me 410
and
HE-111
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He219
Brewster Buffalo
B25.....in no particular order.
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*this vote for sale to the highest bidder
:D
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I heard the Brewster takes lots of bird strikes in the tail.:D
P39 here
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Ball, you traitor!!! How can you use that avatard???? Vote for the G.55!!!
Gents, listen to what Dace said! We need more Italian planes! And the G.55 is the best new fighter you can get! Vote for it, DocRoe, it's faster than Brewster and had better guns!
Vote for G.55 people, vote for it!
G.55... G.55... G.55.... G.55... G.55.... G.55....!!!!
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Nippon Sentouki onegai shimasu:aok
Ki-43
(http://www.btillman.com/images/Ki-43%20Taxi1.jpg)
Not as famous as the A6M2 but Ki 43 is faster, turned tighter, and rolled better than A6Ms.
Ki-44-II-Ko
(http://www.makettinfo.hu/konyvfoly/magazin/promodell/pm_2006_2_3.jpg)
In contrast to its predecessor, the nimble Ki-43, the Ki-44 was designed for speed and climbing ability, and was used to intercept high-flying B-29 bombers.
J2M3
(http://archerwinsmodelkits.tripod.com/images/Copyofj2m3_raiden032.jpg)
J2M3 is the La-7 of Japanese planes,
Ki 100
(http://www.bredow-web.de/RAF_Museum/Kawasaki_Ki-100/Kawasaki-3.JPG)
This is a Ki 61 with more powerful radial engine.
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G.55 it is, oh and will you train me in it?
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Ok, IMHO the Brewster is a "sympathy" vote for the Finns who we all love and support in the fanaticism for online flight sims. :aok
Quite frankly I won't be voting for that plane though.
Someone explain to me why the P-39 is such a good choice? It was not used to any extent in Western Europe or the Med. The Russians used it in the Air to Ground mode not Air to Air. It was limited to minor role in the the Southern Pacific.
Also should we not add a Japanese fighter? The J2M would be my first choice but we are already buried under NIKIs. The KI-44 was a pig. The KI-43 was so lightly armed that a WWI Spad could give it gunner lessons.
The Yak-3 Seems a good choice, but its close to the Yak-9.
The B-25 would be excellent as there are so many variants.
The Russians need a bomber so the PE-2 would be good.
The Me-410 would be nice for CT.
I see all these "oh this plane" posts, but could we have a discussion as to WHY these planes would be a good add beyond nationalistic and personal wishes.
Thanks,
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Sure, DocRoe! :aok
As soon as I'll master it, that is... :D
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hehe PM me right now, we should talk or something
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Adding an A26 would be awesome! The B model would be great.
Specifications (A-26B):
Engines: Two 2000hp Pratt & Whitney R-2800-79 radial piston engines
Weight: Empty 22,370 lbs., Maximum Takeoff 35,000 lbs.
Wing Span: 70ft. 0in.
Length: 50ft. 9in.
Height: 18ft. 6in.
Performance:
Maximum Speed at 15,000 ft: 355 mph
Ceiling: 22,100 ft
Range: 1,400 miles
Armament:
Six 12.7mm (0.5 in.) machine guns in nose
Two 12.7mm (0.5 in.) machine guns each in ventral and dorsal turrets
6000 lbs. of bombs
Eight 127mm (5-inch) rockets
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An AXIS or RUSSIAN fighter that flew between 1942 and 1944.
Any one please.
No more "flew the last 12 days of the war" ones either. Something that actually equipped more than a few squadrons. Not another freaking Jet, for the love of god. Leave that to IL-2s fantasy war.
Me410
Ki-45
MC200 (no, not the G55)
Yak-3 (should have been in AH ages ago)
Ki-43 II
A6M3 *when the Zero gets updated*
:aok
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Originally posted by Fencer51
Someone explain to me why the P-39 is such a good choice? It was not used to any extent in Western Europe or the Med. The Russians used it in the Air to Ground mode not Air to Air. It was limited to minor role in the the Southern Pacific.
quotation from Wiki:
Pokryshkin started the war flying the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-3 fighter, in which he scored almost twenty victories. In August of 1942 his regiment, now renamed 16th Guards Fighter Regiment, converted to lend-lease Bell P-39 Airacobras, which despite a persistent myth the Soviets have never been used in the ground attack role. Soviet pilots liked this aircraft, and found it quite competitive with the Messerschmitt Bf-109 and superior to the Focke-Wulf FW-190 at the low air combat attitudes common on the Eastern Front.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Ivanovich_Pokryshkin
P-39 have never been used for Air to Ground attacks. It would be too expensive to use US fighter in a role of Il-2 which Ruyssians had a lot. First, Il-2 was much better in this role. Second, Russians didn't have competitive fighters in 42 - early 43, so it would be very stupid to risk them in ground attacks.
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P-63 got only 1 or 2 official kills on that Manchurian front, from memory.
So vote G.55!
EDIT: I think the purpose of this thread was not to voice opinion for what's already on the list, but rather to add to the list (as Waffle did), if you think something should be on it, but is not.
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OK... so the winner is the Polikarpov IL-16 Type 24/28.
Done!
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lol
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Originally posted by Fencer51
Also should we not add a Japanese fighter? The J2M would be my first choice but we are already buried under NIKIs. The KI-44 was a pig. The KI-43 was so lightly armed that a WWI Spad could give it gunner lessons.
Ki 44 was like Bf 109 in terms of climb rate. It was not manuverable by Japanese standards but it still outturned most US planes in confidential test flights.
Ki 43-IIb was lightly armed at the start of the war. 2x 12.7mm guns. By late war Ki 43-IIIb was armed with deadly 2x HO-5 cannons and had max speed of 360mph
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Originally posted by Krusty
P-63 got only 1 or 2 official kills on that Manchurian front, from memory.
Let me help that ol' memory out....
"By a 1943 agreement, P-63s were disallowed for Soviet use against Germany and were supposed to be concentrated in the Soviet Far East for an eventual attack on Japan. However, there are many unconfirmed reports from both the Soviet and German side that P-63s did indeed see service against the Luftwaffe. Most notably, one of Pokryshkin's pilots reports in his memoirs published in the 1990s that the entire 4th GvIAP was secretly converted to P-63s in 1944, while officially still flying P-39s. One account states they were in action at Koenigsberg, in Poland and in the final assault on Berlin. There are German reports of P-63s shot down by both fighters and flak. Nevertheless, all Soviet records show nothing but P-39s used against Germany."
The P-63 was delivered in huge numbers, and was competitive as a late-war fighter plane ('43 on...would this place it Mid-war as well...perked perhaps?) They were delivered on the promise that they'd be used against the Japanese. The Russians started getting significant numbers of these planes around the time that Kursk was being fought, and started secretly replacing planes in P-39 squadrons with them.
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P-47M
Tu-2
G.55
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For those who want P-39 ....
(btw i want Japnese fighters 1st!;) )
Most representative lineup of P-39s.
P-39D U.S. Version:
245 lb of additional armor, self-sealing fuel tanks. Armament increased to 1x 37 mm cannon (30 rounds), 2x .50 cal (200 rounds/gun) and 4x .30 cal (1,000 rounds/gun) machine guns. Provisions for a single 250-lb, 325-lb, or 500-lb bomb under the fuselage.
P-39Q-30 U.S.S.R. Version:
wing-mounted 0.30 cal machineguns replaced with a single 0.50 cal with 300 rounds of ammunition in a pod under each wing. These wing guns were often removed on Soviet aircraft. P-39Q-21 had a four-bladed Aeroproducts propeller. The P-39Q-30 reverted to a three-bladed propeller because the four-bladed unit worsened directional stability.
Btw, P-39D should be classified as a US Army Aircraft, P-39Q-30 should be classified as Soviet VVS aircraft.
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Brewster Buffalo
I think Camo and his pals have waited long enough .
But I would fly Ki44 or late Ki43 alot more .
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Originally posted by Warspawn
Let me help that ol' memory out....
The P-63 was delivered in huge numbers, and was competitive as a late-war fighter plane ('43 on...would this place it Mid-war as well...perked perhaps?) They were delivered on the promise that they'd be used against the Japanese. The Russians started getting significant numbers of these planes around the time that Kursk was being fought, and started secretly replacing planes in P-39 squadrons with them.
I just read that, as it was posted above. That tells us nothing. I don't know who to believe less, Soviet documents denying something happened or Soviet pilots claiming something happened, at the height of their claim to fame.
Since HTC only looks at official specs, official engine settings, speeds, no custom-tooled, jury-rigged engine settings that most VVS flew with, I doubt they're going to use anecdotal, questionable, resources to determine if it was in use in Europe or not.
The "official" (read into that whatever you wish) record has all of the P-63s being used in one of the smallest, most insignificant fronts of the war (at the time). During this time all these thousands of aircraft have an official claim of 1-2 kills, and I can't even recall the types. They shot down a couple of Japanese planes towards the end of the war.
Besides, how would the Germans know they'd shot down a P-63 and not some late version of a P-39? They look very much alike, and have minor external differences. Same way that allied planes claimed to have shot down FWs over Romania, but were attacking IAR80s (totally totally different aircraft).
Hell there were problems telling P-47s from Fw190As, so the early FWs dropped the checkerboard nose patterns to avoid confusion (after a bad encounter).
I think we need more than that to believe they were in use in large numbers in Europe.
P.S. Wasn't Porkryshkin was flying a Yak at the end of the war?
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Originally posted by Krusty
I think we need more than that to believe they were in use in large numbers in Europe.
/shrug.
I believe that the game encompasses more than just the European theater. Would you at least believe that the Soviet operated large numbers of the 2,200 P-63's that they received during the war, regardless of what part of WWII they participated in? I'm sure that the theater the individual pilot participated in was certainly significant to that aviator, even if it was later determined to have a minor impact on the war's outcome as a whole...
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Originally posted by Krusty
P.S. Wasn't Porkryshkin was flying a Yak at the end of the war?
Never. He was in confrontation with Yakovlev and would never fly on his
fighters.
He tried La-7 but when his friend died in accident in La-7 (something on landing, if memory serves me well) he refused to switch his regiment to La-7. He was already very famouse person in the USSR at that time, and he could do that.
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P39 and B25 please
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Definately the P-39.
It fills two gaps, a minor one for the US, a huge one for the VVS.
If I had two choices it'd be the P-39 and the Ki-44
Three choices would be P-39, Ki-44, Yak-3
If I had a choice without being limited by Pyro's list, it'd still be the P-39.
If I had two choices disregarding the list, it'd be the P-39, Yak-1B
If I had three choices disregarding the list, it'd be P-39, Yak-1B, and the Ki-44
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P39 and G4M Betty
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P-39 Airacobra! :)
(http://www.708th.com/xoops/uploads/photos/198.jpg)
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A 26 ! late version , no crippled duds ....
Hot Fast Invader ....armed to the teeth !
Regards
Bob/CHECKERS
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B-25
The plane served everywhere and was a work horse. Very recognizable and kinda sad we dont have it already. Had multiple configurations and of course was used in the Doolittle raid, rasing the moral of many Americans and Allies.
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Definitely the P-39.
I'd love to see the G4M to better fill out the Japanese plane set, but the Ki-43 is a close second.
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Ok, this is my last post in this thread.
Guys, we've got unique chance to vote for new plane in AH. Please, just think about P-39!
It's American plane which became famous in the Soviet Union. It's fighter which literally won the war in it's middle on the Eastern front. The second high-scored Allies pilot used P-39 till the end of the war refused to fly anything else! Don't you want to understand why he did that, what was so impressive in that plane!? You've already tried the fighter of choice of the first-scored Allies pilot, La-7, and you've whined about this uber plane since the beginning of the world.
May be it's time to try the second one?
Ok, it's just my petition.
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P-39 or G.55.
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Considering that the LWAs are 75% la7 & spit16, it seems that the masses would want improved versions of those models......................
Kinda interesting that everyone is voting on these obscure planes. I say if yer gonna spend the time making a plane, make somthing that will see some air.
IMO what the game(AH2) needs RIGHT NOW is maps, good maps. After that, Id prefer to see the release of TOD or whatever its GOING to be called, than to see any new planes/vehicles/new terrains added to AH2. I think actually playing TOD will help us decide what planes etc. would be ideal to add. Just like the gameplay helped determine what planes were added to AH & AH2.
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410, G55
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I vote the HE111.
Then the Germans will have another bomber that can be used in CT.
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(http://03stormchaser.com/images/wow/upload/Yak3.jpg)
(http://www.cals.lib.ar.us/miller/images/YAK_YAK3.jpg)
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Originally posted by Vad
quotation from Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Ivanovich_Pokryshkin
P-39 have never been used for Air to Ground attacks. It would be too expensive to use US fighter in a role of Il-2 which Ruyssians had a lot. First, Il-2 was much better in this role. Second, Russians didn't have competitive fighters in 42 - early 43, so it would be very stupid to risk them in ground attacks.
Dear god man, do you realize your quoting a resource which is compiled by any idiot with a computer?
Open a book such as "Stuka Pilot" and "Horrido".
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Originally posted by 1K3
Ki 44 was like Bf 109 in terms of climb rate. It was not manuverable by Japanese standards but it still outturned most US planes in confidential test flights.
Ki 43-IIb was lightly armed at the start of the war. 2x 12.7mm guns. By late war Ki 43-IIIb was armed with deadly 2x HO-5 cannons and had max speed of 360mph
You looked at a KI-44? I stand by my statement! :aok
The late war KI-43 would be nothing more than another KI-84, what is needed is an early war Japanese Army plane.
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p-39
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Brewster,Raiden
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Brewster,Raiden
(2nd post not intended but strengthens my want for both nonetheless)
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There are three in that list I liked. The P-39, the B25, and the A26.
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We got to have a sea plane!! And it had defensive guns!
http://www.vectorsite.net/avsund.html (http://www.vectorsite.net/avsund.html)
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Pyro,
Is there a way that this community could perform outsourcing on modules for all the planes in your list so that they all can be introduced?
Looks like you have shrewedly collated several years of wish lists down to the planes most voted for in threads on the BBs.
But if I have to vote:
G55
Ki44
Yak3
Me410
A26 Vader
P47M <-----:aok
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My synopsis IMHO.
P-39 - Who doesn’t love a big gun except for the guy who gets hit by one? Even slow ones with low fire rates. Good variant potential and use on multiple fronts in scenarios. Lack of performance at altitude not a huge minus in the arenas. I find the P-39 to be peculiarly endearing despite or perhaps because of its flaws and reputation.
Brewster Buffalo – My sentimental choice to win. For nearly 12 years, Finns have asked me for this. Their passion for this plane is contagious. I’ve wanted to give them one ever since I read Double Fighter Knight about 10 years ago. That really gave me an appreciation of the FAF and the sturdiness of Finns in general. Of course, now that I’ve said it’s my sentimental favorite, if it happens to win it will provoke more conspiracy theories than Patrick Ewing going to the Knicks in the first NBA draft lottery.
Me 410 - I think this plane has the biggest cool factor. It would be the most fun to build. From cockpit to armament to gunner position, it’s atypical. I’ve always wanted to do one of these.
He 111 – Iconic plane. Hard to really get fully immersed into a BoB scenario without them but its utility doesn’t really extend far beyond that.
B-25 – Cool plane, one of my favorites as a kid and another sentimental favorite for various reasons. Good for several variants and who wouldn’t want to fly a plane that has a 75mm cannon and 14 .50s?
Pe-2 or Tu-2 – There’s a gaping hole when it comes to Russian bombers. The Tu-2 is a really nice plane but the Pe-2 is certainly more definitive of the type.
Yak 3 – I put this in here because I don’t believe we can make this as a Yak 9 variant. Although it looks the same, its fuselage is dimensionally quite different IIRC. This is a really fun plane. It’s like a little sports car roadster.
G.55 – Italians seem to love this plane like Finns love their Brewster. A nice plane although somewhat boutique. Going off on a tangeant, if I could add only one more Italian plane, it would be the SM.79. Of course, the SM.79 would have no chance to win in the voting but it still should be done one day.
Japanese fighter - Ki 44, J2M, Ki 45, or Ki 43 – There’s fun to be had here that most people don’t realize. I have to group them together so as not to split the votes for people just wanting to see more Japanese planes but each of these are interesting in their own right.
A-26 - Honestly, this plane will end up as a light perk but more things to spend bomber perks on are needed. Helluva plane that would completely upstage every other medium bomber in the game.
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Originally posted by bustr
Is there a way that this community could perform outsourcing on modules for all the planes in your list so that they all can be introduced?
There are some hurdles to overcome but things have been moving in that direction.
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I think the yak 3 would be the be all end all in fighters. the thing was a monster, heck, is a monster.
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Hum, P-39...Buffalo... Buffalo... P-39... hey Waffle, can you give us both? :D
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i truly hope the P39 gets added to this game
it can fill more holes then anyother plane on the list
would help events to
though i think its going to be a plane that will only find its true abiltys in the hands of a good stick
mainly because of that gun
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Pyro:
You should have seen my son's eyes get as wide as saucers when I told him about the vote on the planes and he found the Me-410, He-111, and B-25 on the list :). We looked up all the planes on the list in his "airplane science book" and I asked him to rank the list for the ones that should come first. He said all of them :).
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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Well, "that gun" was worse than even LW 30mm. You could literally see it drop right out of the barrel, pilots said. The drop was so sharp, the round so slow, the ballistics so bad, that you'd have to be inside 100 yards to realistically land a shot with it.
Most cons can jink and evade you enough at that range to deny a spud hit. MGs would probably get you kills at longer ranges than the tater would :aok
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P-39. It'll fit in every theater and every terrain we have and use and ever will use.
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A-26 to spend some bomber perks on.
ME-410 is my next choice.
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Brewster Model 239
'It's time...'
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P39/P400
Used in every theater of the war. All kinds of Paint schemes and all kinds of scenario use. Fits into the low alt war that AH is.
B25-For Toad's Dad before it's too late. Also because it was used everywhere by everyone in every theater of the war
Beaufighter-Cause it looks tough, packs a punch and served in the ETO, MTO and PTO with RAF, RAAF, RCAF, USAAF etc.
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Despite my well-known prejudices (and since the IAR-80 isn't on the list :noid ), Japanese fighters and the P-39. Need more Pacific planes, and a P-39 would be a very nice target for my occasional 109G6 indulgence.
(http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/05/images/profile_p39_07.jpg)
(http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/05/images/profile_p39_05.jpg)
(http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/05/images/profile_p39_06.jpg)
(http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/05/images/profile_p39_03.jpg)
(http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/05/images/profile_p39_01.jpg)
(http://web.quick.cz/iModeller/shoki/ki44-f2.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/2778/images/tojo.gif)
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P39 - so many variants and used everywhere.
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Originally posted by Fencer51
Dear god man, do you realize your quoting a resource which is compiled by any idiot with a computer?
Open a book such as "Stuka Pilot" and "Horrido".
Hahem ... Stuka pilot is far from reliable !
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I read somewhere that under certain hard handling the P-39 would actually flip end over end (i.e. swap its nose for its tail). Something about the dynamic weight balance from the mid engine position. It would be cool if HTC could work that into the flight model ;) if the P-39 gets selected. Then again, if it were in the flight model, someone would figure out how to do it reproducibly and then imagine the whines from people that get a sudden face full of 37mm when tail chasing the P-39.
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Originally posted by Pyro
There are some hurdles to overcome but things have been moving in that direction.
Here's the best bit of news in a long time, new planes included. This would be phenomenal, were it to happen, and be void of some of the issues that plague player generated content in other games.
IMO, the only thing better than choosing 1 plane from a list, is choosing the entire list. :aok
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Originally posted by 715
I read somewhere that under certain hard handling the P-39 would actually flip end over end (i.e. swap its nose for its tail).
The mossie does something pretty similar.
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P-39 as a plane that could impact the two more deficient plane sets--Eastern Front and Pacific.
Ki-43 would be my first choice, with one caveat...Its use in the MA could run the risk of being more cult-like, but for the SEA, it would be huge. The rest of the Japanese aircraft mentioned were comparitively much less significant. The fact that the IJA flew the Ki-43 for the entire war when considered with the number built, IMHO means this should be the next Japanese plane added to the set. I suppose that if some of the different versions were included, it could even be considered competitive in the MA.
B-25 gets my second vote based on numbers produced, significance of its contribution to the war in almost ALL theaters, and that it also, like the Ki-43 was operational for practically the entire war, although in different versions. B-25 would also be competitive in the MA. My second plane would be the Betty, except for its value in the MA. For SEA, it again would be huge. But, given the need in my opinion for some utility in the MA's, I'd have to say the B-25 tips the scales in its own favor.
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Dornier 335
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Do335_Smithsonian.jpg/800px-Do335_Smithsonian.jpg)
It would certainly be unlike anything we have here
Performance
* Maximum speed: 474 mph (765 km/h)
* Combat radius: 721 mi (half load) (1.160 km)
* Service ceiling: 37,400 ft (11,400 m)
Armament
* Guns:
1× 30 mm MK 103 cannon
2× 20 mm MG 151 cannon
* Bombs: 2,200 lb (1,000 kg)
Failing that, I'd like to see the Me 410.
Even better....... G2 model JU 87
:p
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Shouldn't the chairs be facing that monster, not away from it? Who would ever let that thing behind them? :D
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Here are some production numbers for those that I have handy.
P-39: 9529
He 111: 7300
B-25: 9186
Pe-2: 11427
Tu-2: 2527
Yak 3: 4848
Ki-44: 1225
J2M: 476
Ki-45: 1701
Ki-43: 5919
I would pick based on number produced and based on what would be most useful to round out plane sets for scenarios. So, I'd probably pick from among Pe-2, He 111, B-25, P-39, and Ki-43.
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Ok well on the list, in the order Id like
410
111
26
That having been said, I REALLY want the JU87G. After all we just got a new tank so shouldn't we have something new to kill it? Its the american way.
Glenn
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As much as I love the vader....
P39 is a glaring filler for the planeset.
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Originally posted by Pyro
Me 410 - I think this plane has the biggest cool factor. It would be the most fun to build. From cockpit to armament to gunner position, it’s atypical. I’ve always wanted to do one of these.
I think you should do what you think is fun and not let all these players get what they want all the time. They are just a bunch of spoiled kids.
P39? pffft...
I say do the 410 and you will have fun and live longer. Its nice to see that you are letting us vote and all *wink wink tsk tsk* but dont let the results mess with your head. You have my blessing to start working on the 410 sir :D
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Maximazing value for coding time, I'd say:
P39!
Will not be a total hangar queen (at least the later models). Very useful for special events as it served in almost all theaters, during most of the war, including the Russian front. Mass produced, so this is not "some 300 built" rare bird.
A26 is also a good MA addition, but far less useful for events.
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P-39, both D and Q models.
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(http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/milestones-of-flight/aircraft/images/1945/1945-6100-1-G-Meteor-III.jpg)
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Personally I would vote for all of them!
We need AH to become a virtual musuem where we can up and fly all sorts of planes and bombers.
From Pyro's list I would vote Tu-2 (No russian bombers in game)
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Ki44
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Brewster
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Originally posted by Nilsen
I think you should do what you think is fun and not let all these players get what they want all the time. They are just a bunch of spoiled kids.
P39? pffft...
I say do the 410 and you will have fun and live longer. Its nice to see that you are letting us vote and all *wink wink tsk tsk* but dont let the results mess with your head. You have my blessing to start working on the 410 sir :D
Cmon Nilsen.
Jag tycker att du skulle medvirke vår sak. Vi har alltid vaerit en bra venner, vi alla måste huske på det.
Jeg liter på att du endre din anskuelse.
:D
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Originally posted by mipoikel
Cmon Nilsen.
Jag tycker att du skulle medvirke vår sak. Vi har alltid vaerit en bra venner, vi alla måste huske på det.
Jeg liter på att du endre din anskuelse.
:D
:D
Ehm Pyro.. ive changed my choise to Brewster
not really.. im still voting for the 410 *wink wink*
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P-39 and B-25 or He-111
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Brewster B-239
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Nakajima Ki-43: Imagine all the assist you could get:aok
Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa (Peregrine Falcon) Video watch for the 360 degree turn Lmao (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7FYVEWNNrQ)
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Originally posted by Squire
An AXIS or RUSSIAN fighter that flew between 1942 and 1944.
Any one please.
The G.55 is your plane! :D (Can't understand why you say no to it... it's not a "last 12 days" plane, it equipped the whole ANR - the fascist northern air force-, it's not a jet.. it's what you want!)
Originally posted by Pyro
There are some hurdles to overcome but things have been moving in that direction.
Having an official introduction to the planes would be great, but will the lobbies have the faculty of checking that introduction before it is officially released on the BBS/game? (yep, it would be nice if people in game could see it... not every player reads the BBS) I think we should have the faculty of checking it for errors/integration, maybe making it before the whole thing is released will help sparing some time.
Originally posted by Pyro
Of course, now that I’ve said it’s my sentimental favorite, if it happens to win it will provoke more conspiracy theories than Patrick Ewing going to the Knicks in the first NBA draft lottery.
:rofl oh.... wait.... you betrayer!!! Send me back all the whiskey I gave you!!!! :furious
Originally posted by Pyro
if I could add only one more Italian plane, it would be the SM.79.
We want that, too, of course! :D
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Boomerang
Beaufighter
Brewster
G55
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hmm...
you all do know..by biting into the hook, you're setting yourselves up for his reply that all the planes listed are inbound to us?
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B-25
Simply for the variant and loadout possabilities. And its broad usage in every theater.
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Just a note, Pyro.
Instead of runoff voting you could do ranked voting where each player assigns a rank to every plane in your list.
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Of the planes on the list, I'd have to vote for the P-39 first. There are so many variants and types, and it was used widely enough for me to be curious about it.
If HT does add the P-39, PLEASE add both early and late-war models (D/N/Q), and take a look at the british variant (P-400) with the hispano as well. The P-63 would be nice, but would take additional modeling time since it is slightly larger airframe than the original P-39.
2nd Vote goes to the G.55, because we need more Axis rides, and the G.55 would be interesting to try out against the C.205 and the 109G2/G6.
3rd Vote goes to the A-26, because it would make a great perk bomber and I haven't got anything to spend bomber perks on.
EagleDNY
$.02
-- voting machine lever pulled.
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Westland Whirlwind
Bristol Beaufighter
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Brewster..
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Originally posted by Ball
(http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/milestones-of-flight/aircraft/images/1945/1945-6100-1-G-Meteor-III.jpg)
Jet battles! **** yes
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Originally posted by straffo
Hahem ... Stuka pilot is far from reliable !
What? You don't trust an unrepentant Nazi? :noid
Pryo, thanks for your list that's what I was talking about.
I have a solution for you. Add the Brewster and 2 others. There would be no need for multiple variants on the Brewster and they do deserve it but it would be a shame to waste one the two slots on it. Farm it out to the community as a test.
Looks like I will vote for the P-39 and the Ki-43, although the Betty and the Pe-2 are desperately needed for the plane set.
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Some alternative list:
Fiat Cr32
MC.200
He-51
Bf-109B
I-15
I-16
Gloster Gladiator
PZL-P11C
Ki-27
Avia B.534
Ms.406
Fokker D.XXI
Brewster
+
Pre-early War Arena
== lots of fun :)
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Me-410U-2 and U-4
U-2 has 2x 20mm with 250 rounds each
U-4 has 1x 50mm BK5 cannon with 21 rounds
Maximum speed- 388mph
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From the selfish AvA perspective:
P-39, of course, it fits into nearly all setups.
I wish there were some Japanese fighter from 1943 that we could put in, but the fact is that the Tony and Zeke were really all they had. The Oscar would only be a Zeke-in-other-clothing; in early war it would eat up Wildcats and P-40s, for the rest of the war it would be dog meat. I think we now have two good late-war fighters for the Japanese (and AH has more than enough 1945 planes anyway). Desperately need the Betty, but I understand that this vote is for fighters.
The Russians could use a mid-war fighter - currently they're pretty much stuck with American rides (P-40 and the upcoming P-39) and a ground attack plane (9T). But I'd rather see the Finns' version of the Buffalo here, so that we can stop using the FM2 as a substitute and dump the Hurri IIC.
What I'd REALLY like to see, though, is the I-16, but it would need some sort of match on the other side, and then we're into Spanish Civil War times (CR-42, anyone?).
- oldman
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First off IMO we need everything on the list, and we needed it last year. That being said.
In order to be done.
P-39 at least 2 variants ie US & Soviet markings.
Pe-2 Russian plane set has been lacking a bomber forever.
Ki-43, Ki-44, Ki-45 in that order, Japanese plane set needs some beefing.
After that the Yak, the HE-111, and B25.
When thats all done then clean up the list.
We'll have dozens more ready to chose from by the time these are ready.
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Originally posted by EagleDNY
the G.55 would be interesting to try out against the C.205 and the 109G2/G6.
C.205 and 109??? Try it agaisnt bombers, and you'll see! :D Vote for it, it's great! :)
Aper, Oldman, I'd like to see CR.42 (even 32 ;)) or C.200, but, as you noted, those would be more fitting for AvA, as most of the italian planes... if the new airframe has to be something that can fly in MAs and CT, well, it should be a later design, such as the G.55... it's perfect, vote for it! ;)
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The guns loadout is the same as a 109G6 with gondolas - and the engine power is about the same. I'd expect better manueverability and hi-alt performance with those wings, and it would be a good buff killer.
I'd take it up in a second, but I'm not sure it would get as much usage in the arenas as the P-39 would. I'd also like to try out the 37mm vs vehicles (and low flying buffs ;) )
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Originally posted by streakeagle
While some of the planes on that list are sorely needed to round out the planeset, I think one of the most interesting choices didn't even make the list:
P-61 Black Widow
Agreed. It has in the past been a commonly requested plane.
Would also like to see it at least included in the list
here is a link with info and charts taken directly from the original flight manual which includes as well as other things cockpit layouts. Cones of fire,angles of armor protection. ETC
As well as a training video
P61 Manual (http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/MoreP-61Stuff.html)
For those that would argue about the use of radar and lack of night
"The Black Widow night fighter used its on-board radar only to plot intercept courses when pursuing enemy aircraft. Once having used closed with his target, the pilot of the Black Widow sighted his prey by eye and used a conventional optical gunsight to fire his guns at the enemy"
SOURCE (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p61_3.html)
Well this is the same way radar is used in game now. On planes that didnt have radar
So the "lack of night" in reality and given the way radar is already used in game is not a valid arguement against it.
(http://www.bibl.u-szeged.hu/bibl/mil/ww2/kepek/planes/pics/p-61_1.jpg)
If I had to narrow it downt o a few my list in order of prefrence would be
P61
A New Jap or russian plane
The A26
Buffalo.
Im not including the 39 not because I dont like it. But because I think we already have enough of that style bird.
For a new addon I'd like to see something truely new and different then what we already have
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Originally posted by Pyro
B-25 – Cool plane, one of my favorites as a kid and another sentimental favorite for various reasons. Good for several variants and who wouldn’t want to fly a plane that has a 75mm cannon and 14 .50s?
:O
Hold on a sec. If your not joking about this. I may have to modify my vote.
Bronk
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Yak 3.
Russkies are seriously under-represented in this game.
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Originally posted by Pyro
My synopsis IMHO.
Brewster Buffalo – My sentimental choice to win. For nearly 12 years, Finns have asked me for this. Their passion for this plane is contagious. I’ve wanted to give them one ever since I read Double Fighter Knight about 10 years ago. That really gave me an appreciation of the FAF and the sturdiness of Finns in general. Of course, now that I’ve said it’s my sentimental favorite, if it happens to win it will provoke more conspiracy theories than Patrick Ewing going to the Knicks in the first NBA draft lottery.
Japanese fighter - Ki 44, J2M, Ki 45, or Ki 43 – There’s fun to be had here that most people don’t realize. I have to group them together so as not to split the votes for people just wanting to see more Japanese planes but each of these are interesting in their own right.
A-26 - Honestly, this plane will end up as a light perk but more things to spend bomber perks on are needed. Helluva plane that would completely upstage every other medium bomber in the game.
I'd be willing to forgo all my other requests including my much beloved 61 if you narrowed it down to these three.
For reasons you have here given
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As a Brit I was hoping for the Beaufighter, but to be fair I do feel the Russians are under represented. I vote for: -
P-39 - US and Russian versions
Pe-2 or Tu-2
However, the early war and BOB could be filled out too - with: -
He 111
(Do 217?)
Hint: If you add streams of He-111s it'd make a good BOB scenario.
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B-25/P-39
Followed shortly the Korean Arena :t
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ill vote a26 and b25
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yakkk 3:o
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I like the Beaufighter too but I have to draw the line somewhere to keep it to 10 choices. It's certainly worthy of being on the list but it would be a very extreme long shot to win.
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Looking at this purely from the perspective of which airplane would actually get serious use in the arena, I'd have to vote for:
B-25
Yak-3
A-26
All the other planes are cool and all, and have their various appeal, but would anybody (except for the few who love each plane) ever fly them in the arena?
Actually, I'd vote for the Yak-3 (as it would be easier to modify the Yak-9 rather than start from scratch) AND one of the medium buffs. To choose between the 25 and 26 is tough, but I'd go with the later versions of the 26 as a perk buff - if only to give something to spend buff perks on.
The Do-335 would definitely get my vote though.
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I'm thinking of scenarios...
Eastern Front
BOB
D-Day
European Strat. Bombing
North Africa
Pearl Harbour
PTO
etc.
I think it might be a good idea to target one or more of these to build a decent (even if incomplete) plane set - i.e. He-111 is a must for BOB. Eastern Front is pretty sparse though - how many Finns/Russians would like that filled out a bit?
Question - do we have everything for Pearl Harbour already?
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I'll make a deal with the Brewster guys... I'll vote for the Brewster this round if you'll give a vote for the A-26 on the next round... :cool:
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Bahh go for the most bang for the $.
Most numbers produced.
Most theaters of operation.
Fills more than one plane set hole.
Choice is obvious P-39.
:D
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Ok, lets try this deal, all you P-39 and A-26 guys vote for the Brewster this round. The Finns get something they've wanted for forever. Then the next round we all vote for the P-39, then 3rd round we all vote for the A-26.
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two words...
The Buffalo
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Originally posted by EagleDNY
The guns loadout is the same as a 109G6 with gondolas - and the engine power is about the same. I'd expect better manueverability and hi-alt performance with those wings, and it would be a good buff killer.
P 39 sucks! It had the engine in the wrong part of the aircraft!!! And that cannon is lousy, you'd not hit anything!!! Vote for the buff hunter, it'll be a pleasure to hit bombers with all that firepower and run away thanks to his great high altitude performance!
Vote for the G.55!!!
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Brewster F2A-1 based B-239
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Early war german bomber so BoB will work right.
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p-39 g-55
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(http://www.jtsystems.demon.co.uk/duma/images/cartoons/looserivets/130201.jpg)
:D
Bronk
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:rofl
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I would have to agree with Pyro's assessments...........
The P39 does fill holes in plane sets in theatres all over the world.........
It should definately have the VVS load out as default........... however it will not attract wide use in the MA......
Like wise the Pe2 fills the VVS dive bomber gap left between the Il2m3 and lendlease A20's and Bostons.
The Yak3 is the single major fighter plane missing that will see significant MA use..... its a low alt, highly manouverable (think SpitV) ac with great acceleration requiring good marksman ship. It would be the ride of the furballing experten VVS pilit.
But having said all that my heart says that the Finns should get their Brewster............
IMO (if my vote were to count for any thing) the AH Finns have earned this ride many times over and to hell with any logic v s v how good a decision such a choice would be re one arena or another.
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The best reason for the Buffalo...
The venerable Buffalo is the only aircraft to be used by both Axis and Allied forces during the war. (this does not include captured models of other planes)
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I'd have to say P39 and He-111
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Originally posted by NHawk
The best reason for the Buffalo...
The venerable Buffalo is the only aircraft to be used by both Axis and Allied forces during the war. (this does not include captured models of other planes)
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT
Hurri MkI.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT
Hurri MkI.
Bronk
Sorry wasn't flown by axis.
The Luftwaffe operated some captured Hurricanes for training and education purposes while the Japanese captured two from Australia, though both were destroyed before they could be put to operational use as "Judas planes."
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Originally posted by NHawk
The best reason for the Buffalo...
The venerable Buffalo is the only aircraft to be used by both Axis and Allied forces during the war. (this does not include captured models of other planes)
If you use Finland as the reference for that, you could say that about any of the aircraft they recieved from the Western Allies.
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Originally posted by NHawk
Sorry wasn't flown by axis.
The Luftwaffe operated some captured Hurricanes for training and education purposes while the Japanese captured two from Australia, though both were destroyed before they could be put to operational use as "Judas planes."
Although it was just to stop a land grab.
The Finns fought the Russians this by default sides them with Axis.
So you advocate the removal of the Finn skinned Mk I hurri?
Bronk
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P-39 with out a doubt
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Originally posted by Airscrew
Ok, lets try this deal, all you P-39 and A-26 guys vote for the Brewster this round. The Finns get something they've wanted for forever. Then the next round we all vote for the P-39, then 3rd round we all vote for the A-26.
I can agree with this arrangement. :)
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Originally posted by Pyro
He 111 – Iconic plane. Hard to really get fully immersed into a BoB scenario without them but its utility doesn’t really extend far beyond that.
Ok another reason to put it in. Have a look at EW. Barely anybody in. Get something to pull them in. Plus the bomber set you have in there. 88's. End list. Lancs if you got the perks to spend, but then ur in deep trouble if you run into like a 190. So then you have... 88's. BORING! Cum'n, Heinkel He 111 would help bring people into the EW. Used widespread and was the main German bomber for a good few years. Think of the other arena's other than Late war. Its not the only arena ya know!
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One man... On vote!
A-26
:aok
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He 111
2nd choice: Me 410
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I vote for the A-26 and the B-25
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Ki-44 Tojo!!!! \o/
(http://karash.morpheus.net/NakajimaKi44.jpg)
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Originally posted by Airscrew
I'll make a deal with the Brewster guys... I'll vote for the Brewster this round if you'll give a vote for the A-26 on the next round... :cool:
Ok! I can do it. :aok
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Originally posted by Xasthur
Dornier 335
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Do335_Smithsonian.jpg/800px-Do335_Smithsonian.jpg)
It would certainly be unlike anything we have here
Performance
* Maximum speed: 474 mph (765 km/h)
* Combat radius: 721 mi (half load) (1.160 km)
* Service ceiling: 37,400 ft (11,400 m)
Armament
* Guns:
1× 30 mm MK 103 cannon
2× 20 mm MG 151 cannon
* Bombs: 2,200 lb (1,000 kg)
Failing that, I'd like to see the Me 410.
Even better....... G2 model JU 87
:p
man what I would give for that. I have been dreaming about that plane in AH since I first started :D
:aok
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A 26/ME 410
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i170/Dablues/A-26-1-Lady-Liberty.jpg)
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i170/Dablues/300px-Me_410_with_BK50.jpg)
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If you want to see something new and different, you choose
Brewster Buffalo 239 !!!
My vote goes Brewster.
Huba
Lentolaivue 36
BREWSTER TO AH!
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See Rules #4, #5 That last sentence was completely uncalled for.
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I'd like to see them open up new plane creation to players (with internal oversight and approval processes). With such talented individuals like tedrbr and others doing FS plane modeling, it would be great if they could submit and assist with plane models and let HTC core staff concentrate on other things like gameplay, CT and maps... I know it brings up other issues like copyrights and stuff, but HT is a small company with a great product and it could only be value-added if done right.
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HE 111
there , I said my piece!
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HE-111 and the Ki-44 TOJO!!!
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Originally posted by scottydawg
I'd like to see them open up new plane creation to players (with internal oversight and approval processes). With such talented individuals like tedrbr and others doing FS plane modeling, it would be great if they could submit and assist with plane models and let HTC core staff concentrate on other things like gameplay, CT and maps... I know it brings up other issues like copyrights and stuff, but HT is a small company with a great product and it could only be value-added if done right.
Your average player or talented individual doesn't spend a few thousand dollars on the required software to create a new plane for AH. (Multigen)
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Originally posted by scottydawg
I'd like to see them open up new plane creation to players (with internal oversight and approval processes). With such talented individuals like tedrbr and others doing FS plane modeling, it would be great if they could submit and assist with plane models and let HTC core staff concentrate on other things like gameplay, CT and maps... I know it brings up other issues like copyrights and stuff, but HT is a small company with a great product and it could only be value-added if done right.
I second that, Scotty, it would be the best way to round our planeset. NHawk, look at what the Target Tobruk staff did... with help from HTC, I think it's a possible task for many of the talented people we have in the community.
On the other hand, I think you all have to vote for the G.55! :D
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Originally posted by NHawk
Your average player or talented individual doesn't spend a few thousand dollars on the required software to create a new plane for AH. (Multigen)
What little I could get off their lame website indicates they use open standards so I would suppose that other packages, some of them free or much cheaper could do wireframing and so forth. I would hate it for HTC if they're painted themselves into a corner with a particular software package for object design and management.
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Me 410
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/Me_410_with_BK50.jpg)
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Originally posted by scottydawg
I'd like to see them open up new plane creation to players (with internal oversight and approval processes). With such talented individuals like tedrbr and others doing FS plane modeling, it would be great if they could submit and assist with plane models and let HTC core staff concentrate on other things like gameplay, CT and maps... I know it brings up other issues like copyrights and stuff, but HT is a small company with a great product and it could only be value-added if done right.
That would be the next logical step since the community is now able to create terrains and skins, but any discussion on the logistical effort at HTC to make use of those models would be purely speculative.
It would be pretty neat to have a hanger full of modeled and skinned aircraft that only need the HTC crew to put in performance data, though. The preview "tool" could just assign a generic flight model for the purpose of testing everything out.
X-Plane has a pretty complete modeling package associated with it. Something along those lines would be utterly phenomenal. Maybe Dale could talk Austin into letting him licensing the code :D
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BW-239 :aok
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This is an easy choice. The B-25
please.
(http://eroplan.boom.ru/planes/B-25/b-25_2a.gif)
-BB
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Brewster Model 239. Absolytely.
P.S. I can make the default skin. You know what it is... Hans Wind's!;)
This one is Ltn Lauri Pekuri's Brewster "BW -372" :
(http://www.llv32.org/koneet/brewster.jpg)
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a British,russian or italian plane as these are the smallest planesets
we don't need more U.S. ones as much as i like the b-25,
:confused:
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BTW, if you're going to add an early war plane, I too would love to see the Mig-3.
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Originally posted by scottydawg
I'd like to see them open up new plane creation to players (with internal oversight and approval processes). ...
I know where there is a very Very VERY nicely done low poly B24d, Best one I've seen yet. Just needs a cockpit.
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Dude enough..the Brewster Model 239, would be totally out classed. And yes we do need a B-25 because I said so.
-BB
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Originally posted by Laurie
a British,russian or italian plane as these are the smallest planesets
we don't need more U.S. ones as much as i like the b-25,
:confused:
British are one of the three biggest sets. Japanese is much smaller, let alone Russian or Italian.
Consider also that the Japanese operated, if anything, a greater variety of aircraft than did the British.
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Why would you want to see the F2A Buffalo in AH?? They were built in limited numbers, suffered many problems and were outclassed by all but the second rate early war Soviet aircraft. The Buffalo saw all it's success against Russian early war fighters while being flown by the Finnish until later and better Russian fighters came along. None of the Russian fighters the F2A flew well against are in AH. Furthermore, all the other F2A's that saw combat were in the PTO, where they were slaughtered by the Zero. The Finn's were the only ones successful with it, and that was by chance and good fortune. Total number produced was between 504 and 507. Brewster company just couldn't deliever what they promised.
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Go Brewster go! Brewster model 239 that is.
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Originally posted by NHawk
The venerable Buffalo is the only aircraft to be used by both Axis and Allied forces during the war. (this does not include captured models of other planes)
You are forgeting planes like:
- Hurricane I
- Curtiss Hawk (P-36)
- Morane Saulnier 406
- Blenheim
- Fokker D.XXI
- Gloster Gladiator
;)
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the dewoitine 520 should be considered. examples flew for france (vichy and free), italy (both axis and RSI) bulgaria and germany. it would be a welcome and competetive combatant in any early war set up.
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Early war planes are fun, but look at how many people are in the early and mid arenas right now.
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Considering myself in the choice of the next plane, I recall the importance and value of that type in it´s era or/and for counterparts.
For example, Me262 was an exotic and excellent, almost divine fighter...but it´s moment at WWII was very short and it had no actual meaning to the war.
On the other hand, P-51D was a late war type too...but, that plane really changed the balance of hi-altitude fighting for allies. Although, that type was a rarity outside central Europe at the last months of war 1945.
This all is macroview. Big states do what they want.
Let´s have another view of point.
You hardly can see another plane or a single type influence and work in any other war arena or in frontline so effective as You can see Brewsters at Finnish-Russian front.
Please, take a look at this:
Ode to Brewster;-) (http://www.sci.fi/~fta/double_fighter_knight.htm)
It is finally the time for Brewster:aok
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G55
-
I'll be voting for the P-39 and the B-25, both widely used by many of the Allied air forces.
If a 3rd were to be created....
G.55 is nice, but it was very rare.
He 111 will be a hanger queen.... Trust me. Good for the EWA and scenarios though. Ju 88 is better.
Brewster should be added, if for no other reason than to reward our Finn members for contributing so much to the game. They have certainly earned it. I would be quite happy to see it.
Ki-44 would be well used, but the Ki-43 is under-gunned and thus would be a hanger queen after the initial novelty wears off. Ki-45 is inferior to the 110G-2, and would not get a lot of use.
Pe-2 and Tu-2 would get less use than the B-25. Would be great additions tho, adding diversity to the plane set.
Yak-3 would be a nice addition, but was not as widely used as the P-39. Besides, the P-39 does add a VVS fighter.
A-26 would be a terrific addition, but the B-25 had a far greater impact on the war.
Me 410.... Doesn't fill any real need.
My regards,
Widewing
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Outside of scenarios and a few hardcore Finn pilots, I don't see the Brewster being used much at all.
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I'd rather see the P-39 as an early model, or the "Oscar". Just think of all the old AW type that would be drooling..... oh wait, with their ages they do that now!:D
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Originally posted by quintv
Outside of scenarios and a few hardcore Finn pilots, I don't see the Brewster being used much at all.
Why that???
Brewsters` variants are capable fighters at Pacific.
:)
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For the brewster to be added .
1. All finns must download special finn AH.
2. This version has all other AC removed.
3. They must fly this said version until the next new ac is introduced.
Just quote and type agree below the quote.
:D :t :D :t
Finns
Bronk
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Originally posted by quintv
Outside of scenarios and a few hardcore Finn pilots, I don't see the Brewster being used much at all.
Outside of the special events and the early war, mid-war, and AvA arenas, probably none of the planes we're talking about is going to be used very much after the initial honeymoon period. We've already got plenty of 1945 planes, now it's time to fill in the other periods of the war.
Or at least, that's how I see it.
- oldman
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Originally posted by AWwsky
Why would you want to see the F2A Buffalo in AH?? They were built in limited numbers, suffered many problems and were outclassed by all but the second rate early war Soviet aircraft. The Buffalo saw all it's success against Russian early war fighters while being flown by the Finnish until later and better Russian fighters came along. None of the Russian fighters the F2A flew well against are in AH. Furthermore, all the other F2A's that saw combat were in the PTO, where they were slaughtered by the Zero. The Finn's were the only ones successful with it, and that was by chance and good fortune. Total number produced was between 504 and 507. Brewster company just couldn't deliever what they promised.
Uh-oh.... you'd better look the white and blue avalanche dropping on your six..... :D
Originally posted by pipz
G55
Wtg Pipz!!!! The right idea! :)
Originally posted by Widewing
G.55 is nice, but it was very rare.
It was not that rare, WW. Again, like I said in another thread, you can't think of italian planes comparing their number with the Allied ones, or even the German ones.... pratically the whole fighter force of ANR used it as main ride in 1943-1944 period... it was an important plane for italian air force, and fielded in a fair number (150/200 exemplars... we have in game planes that were that rare) from the italian POV.
EDIT:
probably none of the planes we're talking about is going to be used very much after the initial honeymoon period.
I bet G.55 would, oldman, just like the 205 is, right now! :)[/i]
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Gloster Meteor III.
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Shut up! :mad:
And make an avatard for the G.55, too!
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Originally posted by Widewing
Me 410.... Doesn't fill any real need.
My regards,
Widewing [/B]
but...... I need it.... so it does fill a need.:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Zuum
Why that???
Brewsters` variants are capable fighters at Pacific.
:)
Yes Zuum, you're right. But don't fly it as the US rookie pilots flew it historically against Japanese aces...
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He-111
Pe-2/Tu-2
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
Shut up! :mad:
And make an avatard for the G.55, too!
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/71_1174684557_fiat.gif)
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:rofl Furball, I love you! :rofl
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He 111
-
Originally posted by Oldman731
Outside of the special events and the early war, mid-war, and AvA arenas, probably none of the planes we're talking about is going to be used very much after the initial honeymoon period. We've already got plenty of 1945 planes, now it's time to fill in the other periods of the war.
Or at least, that's how I see it.
- oldman
What percentage of total hours logged of gameplay are outside of the LWAs? EW and MW combined usually aren't half of one of the LWAs. I am not sure what you mean by '1945' plane, we don't have many planes if any that began service during 1945.
There are planes on that list that would see a great deal of use. A couple of them may even require a small perk to limit use.
I don't know how often you all get new planes or variants though, if its a long period between planes, than the Brewster is a poor choice; if they come at relatively short intervals, then I suppose it "could" be ok.
-
A26!!!
p39
enough
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FYI: 1945 aircraft in this game, off the top of my head include:
Ta152H-1
F4U-4
P-47N (?)
109K-4 (Dec of '44, but how quick did they get to the units?)
La-7 (our 3-gun option was only around in the closing months)
EDIT: QuitV, the SEA has almost 300+ players in it many times during Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays, and even spreading into other days of the week. There are enough things taking place in there that it often has as much as either LW arena, depending on the time. Don't discount how many frequent the SEA.
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FYI we do not have the Meteor yet.
This should be amended forthwith!
(http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/milestones-of-flight/aircraft/images/1945/1945-6100-1-G-Meteor-III.jpg)
(http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14speedchart.jpg)
(http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit14climbchart.jpg)
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B-25
-
Brewster Model 239
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
Shut up! :mad:
And make an avatard for the G.55, too!
with your permission gumba, I'll steal yours. :D
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HE-111 and P39!!!:furious
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Originally posted by Krusty
FYI: 1945 aircraft in this game, off the top of my head include:
Ta152H-1
F4U-4
P-47N (?)
109K-4 (Dec of '44, but how quick did they get to the units?)
La-7 (our 3-gun option was only around in the closing months)
Here's what I came up with (if not sure, I marked them with a "?"):
'37
Hurricane Mk I
'38
Spitfire Mk I
'39
Bf 110C-4b?
'40
C-47A, Bf 109E-4?, Ju 88A-4, A6M2, B5N2, D3A1
'41
A-20G, F4U-1, P-40B, P-40E, Hurricane Mk IIC, Lancaster III, Spitfire Mk V, Spitfire Mk VIII?, Ju 87D-3, C.202
'42
B-26B, F4F-4, FM2, SBD-5, TBM-3, Boston Mk III, Hurricane Mk IID, Seafire Mk II, Spitfire Mk IX, Typhoon Mk I, Bf 109F-4, Bf 109G-2, Bf 109G-6, Bf 109G-14, Bf 110G-2, Yak-9T
'43
B-17G, B-24J, F4U-1C, P-38G, P-38J, P-47D-11, P-47D-25, P-47D-40?, P-51B, Mosquito Mk VI, Fw 190A-5, Fw 190A-8, C.205, A6M5b, Ki-84-la, N1K2-J, Il-2 Type 3, La-5FN, Yak-9U
'44
F4U-1D, F4U-4, F6F-5, P-38L, P-51D, Spitfire Mk XIV, Spitfire Mk XVI, Tempest Mk V, Ar 234B, Fw 190D-9, Fw 190F-8, Me 163, Me 262, Ki-61-I-KAIc, Ki-67, La-7
'45
P-47N, Bf 109K-4, Ta 152H
So nobody has to count:
'37 - 1
'38 - 1
'39 - 1
'40 - 6
'41 - 10
'42 - 16
'43 - 19
'44 - 16
'45 - 3
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Originally posted by storch
with your permission gumba, I'll steal yours. :D
You're very welcome, Storchy! ;) Spread it out!!! Oh, and Krusty made another one (even the one we're wearing), it very good too, click on the first link in my signature if you're interested, people, you'll find them both at page 3
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Revised and more accurate:
Here's what I came up with (if not sure, I marked them with a "?"):
'37
D3A1
'38
B5N2
'39
'40
C-47A, Bf109E-4, Bf110C4b, Ju88A-4, A6M2, Hurricane Mk I, Spitfire Mk I
'41
Boston Mk III, P-40B, P-40E, Hurricane Mk IIC, Spitfire Mk V, Ju87D-3, C.202, Bf109F-4
'42
F4F-4, Hurricane Mk IID, Seafire Mk II, Spitfire Mk IX, Bf 109G-2, Yak-9T, F4U-1, Il-2 Type 3, A-20G?
'43
B-17G, B-24J, P-38G, P-38J, P-47D-11, P-51B, Mosquito Mk VI, Fw190A-5, C.205, La-5FN, Spitfire Mk VIII, Lancaster MK III, SBD-5, TBM-3, Bf109G-6, Bf110G-2, Typhoon Mk Ib, B-26B?, Fw190F-8?
'44
F4U-1D, F6F-5, P-38L, P-51D, Spitfire Mk XIV, Spitfire Mk XVI, Tempest Mk V, Fw190D-9, Me262, Ki-61-I-KAIc, Ki-67, La-7, FM-2, Bf109G-14, A6M5b, Ki-84-Ia, Yak-9U, Fw190A-8, P-47D-25, P-47D-40, Bf109K-4
'45
P-47N, Ta152H, N1K2-J, F4U-1C, F4U-4, Me163?, Ar234B?
So nobody has to count:
'37 - 1
'38 - 1
'39 - 0
'40 - 7
'41 - 8
'42 - 9
'43 - 19
'44 - 21
'45 - 7
EDIT: Thhpppttttt
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Karnak, it's 1 for 1938 and 0 for 1939! ;)
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
It was not that rare, WW. Again, like I said in another thread, you can't think of italian planes comparing their number with the Allied ones, or even the German ones.... pratically the whole fighter force of ANR used it as main ride in 1943-1944 period... it was an important plane for italian air force, and fielded in a fair number (150/200 exemplars... we have in game planes that were that rare) from the italian POV.
How many were built, 305? Grumman manufactured 300 Hellcats in 13 days!
I understand that it was major Italian fighter and that's important to you, but I'll wager that there were more P-39s flying in Italy that G.55s....
When we have massively produced aircraft missing, aircraft more significant to the war by far; don't you think they should be in the plane-set long before the much less significant types get in?
That said, I can see your point. I would not be upset if the the G.55 were added and the P-39 or B-25 passed over. I just think it would be unfortunate.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Widewing,
Weren't there less than 100 G.55s built? I know that there were less than 300 C.205s built. As I recall the C.205 production run was approximately half the size of the N1K2-J's run.
-
Blood Pig and mid-war Oscar.
There can be only one.
er, two.
:)
-
I would say Heinkel 111.
JUst for a real Battle of Briton
-
You know, at this point, any new plane...But I'd have to say, P-39 would be nice.
-
Whirlwind
Swordfish
Firefly
Defiant
Beaufighter
Gladiator
Meteor
-
P-39/P-400
-
Originally posted by Karnak
Widewing,
Weren't there less than 100 G.55s built? I know that there were less than 300 C.205s built. As I recall the C.205 production run was approximately half the size of the N1K2-J's run.
At their peak, the ANR had about 150 G.55s in service. I'm fairly sure that just over 300 were delivered, with some destroyed at the factory in bombing and as many as 35 being built when the factory was captured.
My regards,
Widewing
-
Thanks for the info Widewing.
Seems it was more common than the C.205 then.
-
Weren't P39s owned by real fighters and, as a result, were relegated to mainly ground attack roles? And explain to me how a buffalo wouldn't be as big a flying sacrificial target as an F4F or the early P40? There are already plenty of pig rides (of which the P39 would be one). And bombers?? Flying bombers is like watching paint dry. We have pleny of bombers to go around. Any added bombers would be just making more interesting targets for the interceptors. From what I understand, Some of the late Jap planes were real monsters. So, as far as this vote is concerned I'd have to say G55, and one of the late jap planes, KI-44 or 43. 100 would be neat too.
That said, I'd still like to see the little Poli I-16 as an emotional favorite.
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Originally posted by Bubbajj
Weren't P39s owned by real fighters and, as a result, were relegated to mainly ground attack roles? And explain to me how a buffalo wouldn't be as big a flying sacrificial target as an F4F or the early P40? There are already plenty of pig rides (of which the P39 would be one). And bombers?? Flying bombers is like watching paint dry. We have pleny of bombers to go around. Any added bombers would be just making more interesting targets for the interceptors. From what I understand, Some of the late Jap planes were real monsters. So, as far as this vote is concerned I'd have to say G55, and one of the late jap planes. That said, I'd still like to see the little Poli I-16 as an emotional favorite.
(http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0006.gif)
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Don't look at me! I didn't put him up to it!
-
I say why make us decide? Add them all!
-
Yeah... sure! Add them all!
But... uh.. which one first? :noid
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Personally,I think we need another good strike-bomber.
So I`m going for the B-25 and P-39.
We already have a lot of Attack Planes that are japanese and have horrible payloads.
If anybody out there bombs as much as I do they will probably also say the same.
Thanks,
Cory (Jr.falcon23)
:aok
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F5U
(http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/fighter/f5u/f5u-1.jpg)
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Love to see a PBY Catalina......For dropping mines......A troop transport for taking bases....but most for picking up down pilots with a incentive so the down pilot doesn't lose perks or soemthing else?
999000
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Originally posted by Krusty
Don't look at me! I didn't put him up to it!
Sometimes the truth is ugly :cry
-
Best new plane might be a Sub!........or simple add more spawn points for gv's pt's and lets have multiple flat tops in a task force not just one!
999000
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What would really be a hoot is a replay of the Dolittle raids on Tokyo. I suppose for that we'd need 25s.
-
What about a Gloster Gladiator?
The Finn's used that too :)
-
Originally posted by Ball
What about a Gloster Gladiator?
The Finn's used that too :)
Bi-plane would be cool. Btw Swedish volunteers used Gladiator. Finally a real plane for Wilbuz! :D
I-15 would be also a good choice.
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Originally posted by Bubbajj
Sometimes the truth is ugly :cry
Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
-BB :noid
-
I hope that HTC is concentrating in the future to the early war planes as many people here have wished. I understand that the US players are interested in the late war planes, because USAF historically join to the war later than the other countries.
But here are hundreds of European plyers who wants to see all those early war Curtiss Hawks, Fiats, Morane Saulniers, Ratas, Migs, LaGGs etc. I am also one of them.
I can imagine the tight curving furballs with those agile fighters in the early war arena, CT, AvA and SEA. Wow!
-
I can imagine big fat slugs nailing whatever comes after the P39 :D
-
Originally posted by Widewing
When we have massively produced aircraft missing, aircraft more significant to the war by far; don't you think they should be in the plane-set long before the much less significant types get in?
Yes, sure. But this isn't the policy HTC adopted, as we all can see from our current planeset... so why shouldn't I lobby for my plane, just like the Finns are doing? The Brewster hadn't an impact on WWII, too... :p
Btw, my Finnish friends.... why don't you throw away the B239??? We can join our forces and ask for another plane we both want.... the G.50!!! :t
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Hey Pyro, since this is a preliminary list, can we add one?
Would like to add the I.A.R. 80/81. Would be a mid-war ride, to boot.
-
Originally posted by Gianlupo
The Brewster hadn't an impact on WWII, too... :p
How many planes the G.55 shot down? :)
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Originally posted by Pyro
Japanese fighter - Ki 44, J2M, Ki 45, or Ki 43 – There’s fun to be had here that most people don’t realize. I have to group them together so as not to split the votes for people just wanting to see more Japanese planes but each of these are interesting in their own right.
ahhh I would vote for the Japanese fighter... but I would like a Japanese bomber too... and a Japanese torpedo. :D
-
P-39, He111.
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I would much rather have a player controled Destroyer, and possibly the Cruiser too. I love Naval battles.
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Originally posted by mentalguy
I would much rather have a player controled Destroyer, and possibly the Cruiser too. I love Naval battles.
OOOO, that would be cool...Wouldnt it be kinda useless though?
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Originally posted by Wmaker
How many planes the G.55 shot down? :)
I don't know! But they were all well trained American pilots, not poor Russian farmers!!! :D Now, please, russian friends, don't take offence at this, we're just poking fun at each other... isn't it Wmaker? ;)
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Originally posted by spikes
OOOO, that would be cool...Wouldnt it be kinda useless though?
people wouldnt need to use the whole task group to base rape the bases.
-
ahhh, I see your point.
-S
-
Brewster
-
Ok Im drunk but I have heard enough! Obviously there has been to much desention amongst us over this. That is why I propose the the v2. everyone could use it. It would cost bomber perks. Just think"hey lets attack V6 I gonna launch 2 v2's get ready" Its easy to model. missile go up....missile come down. I feel this may be the best middle ground for this.
Im telling ya its what we need
Glenn
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My would be the HE-111. Also I know it's not on the list, but the FW-200
might be a plane to think about.
-
Originally posted by Wmaker
How many planes the G.55 shot down? :)
About 4 as I recall....
:p
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
I don't know! But they were all well trained American pilots, not poor Russian farmers!!! :D Now, please, russian friends, don't take offence at this, we're just poking fun at each other... isn't it Wmaker? ;)
Yep. :)
So 4, eh? Gianlupo, can you guess how many the Brewster downed? :D
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With MGs only??? Surely no more than 3!!! :D
Widewing.... :furious!!!! ;) :D
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:rofl :D
-
You bet...
The Ace of the finnish aces, mr. Juutilainen alone, downed by one individual Brewster(sign BW-364) 28 russian planes amongst other victories with another planes...:D :rofl scoring total of 94 aerial victories.
Take a look (http://www.sci.fi/~fta/finace01.htm)
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B25 --- used in all theaters :aok
-
Shouldn't we focus on finishing the cockpit Grafix on the Planes & Vehicles
we already have? A lot of Planes are up to par, but with too many models
I feel like I'm back playing an old Nintendo! It ruins the "immersion" - the
focus of a good SIM... Anywho, my 1.54 cents worth (US).
My Vote: Douglas A-26 Invader
Ever consider a some type of Seaplane?!
"Eurisko", 504th Screaming Eagles
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hmmm isay anything that flys and has to engines also i like what denholm said
-
u guys should make a float plane that has water floats the y had those to ya know :aok maybe a helicopter too like aan early one :noid
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After thinking.....which is rare. it is a fact the Japanese planeset is lacking.
I would have no trouble with the Ki100, Ki43 and or Ki44.
So after deliberation......my vote goes to at least 1 new Japanese entry...maybe even 2 with the addition of the B25. The wide use of the B25 speaks for itself.
-
Gotta go with the A-26, Pyro.... :)
=GB=
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Hajo, the Ki100 was identical to the Ki61, but slower and with slightly worse performance. It's technically a 1945 plane, but the design was relatively unchanged since 1942/43. It's only a 1945 plane because they put a radial on it when they ran out of inline engines, at that point in time.
-
After a long argument with a friend in the LW arena...We absolutely, positevely, need the Spit XII.
(http://http://members.tripod.com/Air_Museum_ww2/0b6100e0.jpg)
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ROFL, Frode!!!!
That is a real need! The world is no more the same place after Spit XII
:rofl
Brewster is rising!!!
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LOL...
In all honesty, though, for the EW planeset, the Fokker D.XXI is the one I'd cast my vote for, even over the Brewster.
Along with the Curtiss Hawk-75( Also known as the P-36.)
Although, on second thought, the Brewster would be useful in a few scenario's outside of the Finn-Russ wars. We could do the fall of Singapore with it(Several were in use with RAF Far-East squadrons at the time of the loss of the Malayan peninsula.)
We could do a Battle of Midway, with the land-based USMC Brewsters.
But if we add the Brewster, we'd need the I-16 for a proper, early Finn-Russ war.(I-153 as well as Tupolev SB-2.)
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Originally posted by 999000
Love to see a PBY Catalina......For dropping mines......A troop transport for taking bases....but most for picking up down pilots with a incentive so the down pilot doesn't lose perks or soemthing else?
999000
That is a very cool idea. It would take a long time to implement if it were ever to happen (because HTC would have to change some underlying code of the game), but it is a cool idea.
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Yak-3 is my first choice. Second choice is Hurricane 2b(with 12 .303's)
Please don't don't add any clutter like the Brewster.
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Frode! I luv You!:D
Fokker D XXI had to do the dirty work in FAF...despite that fact, it was way too old design for that game...
In the hands of skillful finnish pilots, D XXI had its moment. There is some sort of world record in real life bomber kills;
Six kills in five minutes:
Read this (http://www.sci.fi/~fta/finace26b.htm)
In the case, You would like to vote some plane...
Please remind, there is free beer and sauna for everyone who votes for Brewster!!!!
Free convenience for Brewster fans (http://www.tracklogix.fi:8080/llv32/ahmeet/en/)
:D :D :D
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CC, Zuum. I like the fact that we're looking at getting a new plane; But, unfortunately, It seems like once we get one, we need 4 more right away to complement it.
-
Krusty I realized that when I posted. IMHO we need more Japanese fighters and since the Ki100 was a fighter, no matter what year it was introduced it was one of my choices.
-
I think the Ki's are the primary choices for japanese fighters. The 43, 44, 46, that is :D
-
P-39.
-
Originally posted by Gianlupo
Yes, sure. But this isn't the policy HTC adopted, as we all can see from our current planeset... so why shouldn't I lobby for my plane, just like the Finns are doing? The Brewster hadn't an impact on WWII, too... :p
Btw, my Finnish friends.... why don't you throw away the B239??? We can join our forces and ask for another plane we both want.... the G.50!!! :t
Hello Gian! Long time no see eh :)
You surely know of my undying love for Italian planes and so do my Finnish friends over here. At first I did have in mind to propose the G.50 as a choice for a new plane (as if I had anything to say in this). Not only because it was the other extremely successful "underdog" used in FAF, but because it served in many fronts by many nations and it could also, with minimal tweaking be modified as C.200 another magnificent example of Italian aircraft design.
But, I do hope you understand the Finnish mentality towards the Brewster. This plane is considered to be almost something of a -Finnish fighter-. Designed in the thirties to meet US Navy requirements, failed miserably in every feature (including battle) and sold basicly as a scrap metal to Finland where it would rise from the ashes like a phoenix.
The Brewster is a plane that distinguishes the WWII Finnish Air Force from others. Like US had their P51, British their Spitfire, Germans their Messerschmitt, Italians their Folgore, Japanese their Zero and Russians their lots of planes, we Finnish had our Brewster. It's something that everyone rejected as an outcast but we took it in and made it one of our own. And even though the plane as a type might not have made a major impact in the scale of the WWII, it made a huge impact in the survival and independence of this small country.
I will gladly take what is given, but I think that when you consider the imagery of national WWII aviation monuments this game already holds, there really is no other plane that would fill a larger gap than the Brewster.
BR,
KAntti
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I'd rank, in order, my top 4:
G.55
Brewster
B-25
Me410
That's what I feel I'd vote, for now. :P
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Kantti,
Oh, my dear...
You took the words right out of my mouth....
:D :D :D
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His stirring speech made me move the Brewster from #4 up to #2 :P
But I'm afraid it won't make #1 with this current list of choices :P
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all i can say is this: p-39 for the fighter slot and b-25 for the bomber slot!! also, mabey even the b29?? just a thought, but i vote for the p-39 for a fighter and the b-25 for the bomber slot also, i write in a vote to add the 29!!
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oh, a side thought, if yall add the p-39 its almost impossible to get that nose gun knocked out seein as only the last 3-4 inches of it are outside the bird, and well, the rest is in the fuse. if you lost that nose gun, then the odds are good that your planes goin down in a real big hurry.
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Wow, what a mastery of words, KAntti. I'm speechless.
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Think it big!
Think it at 1940...
Imagine!!!
In the skillful, well-trained hands....Brewster is all-american, really worthy and... equal opponent with Zeke.
Finns proved the worth and capability of Brewster.
Let others do the same!
Brewster rocks!!!
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ME 410
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Originally posted by Nilsen
ME 410
Brewster rules!!!
BTW,
How about...
"Norwegians, Stop killing whales!"
Nilsen, pls, dont use this board for your disinformation.
I dont flame all norwegian people with some of your individuals in whale business...
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How about the F7F? ;)
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Of course....The Finns in this game are loyal are very good players.
So include Brewster in my choices.
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lol, only 1 reason for Brewster for AH is bunch of loyal AH-ers from Finland who support this game for years:noid But whats happens when they get their beloved Bufflo? ;)
my first choice would be P-39 followed by He111, followed by Betty and other rice riders
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Check out the G.55...
Better than the Me109's and C 202/c205
Plus, excellent armament
2x 12.7mm (.50Cal)
3x 20mm
Found to be excellent in intercepting American Bombers
Considered Superior to the Me109
Check this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_G.55
I vote G.55!
I have done research on the "Brewster Buffalo" and if im correct the designation was the F2A, these planes according to my research were bad even against A6M2 and A6M5 'Zeroes' and were later replaced by F4F Wildcats... Sorry if im paranoid but I hope we do not add bad plane like that into AH :noid
Information on the Buffalo is found here http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/american.htm
To navigate this website... use the navigation toolbar to the left, the F2A Buffalo should be located at the Top of the "Fighters" Section
Plus more info to reveal the truth about the Brewster Buffalo's inadaquacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_BuffaloSUPPORT THE G.55
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speaking of countries that lack planes
why do french not have 1 single plane
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We currently have no contemporaries for any of even the most advanced French designs, anyways. I realized this as I was thinking how to reply.
We don't have the 109D or the 109E-1, or the Hurricane 1 with the 2 bladed wooden prop, or the early low octane spit1 with the wooden prop. Hell we don't even have the early Ju87B model. And those are just the contemporaries for the best (the D.520). We don't have anything old enough to combat the older (more common) French designs. So there's really no hole there... more like a sheer cliff with nothing before XXXX date. The French ones are off the cliff, so to speak. You might as well ask why we don't have the Gloster Gladiator, the obsolete Cr.42, the He51, and so on. They just are below the proverbial cut-off point, it seems.
We just don't have anything at all before a certain point, and the French ones seem to be before that point. If you add 1 you have to add 10 more just so it has something to compete against in scenarios.
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<<<<
The meteor is a good idea. Although i know people will lash out at me because they know it was used to kill the V2 flying bombs, AH could make a second use out of it - an interceptor - to put up a good fight agianst a ME-262, and to also brings equal game to scenarios like FSO were only axis have jets, which gets annoying sometimes.
Anyway, since i know the not gonna add it, i don't why i posted this. :aok :rofl :aok
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IMO, you put any other jet in, besides the 262, and the 262 becomes a hangar queen.
Especially if you put in the Meteor Mk.III. More manuverable, quad hizookas, actually able to dogfight.
Let's face it, the 262 is a DOG. It's one of the worst planes to fly in this game.
This isn't for or against the Meteor. Just saying if we get any other jet, the 262 is no longer worthy of a 200+ perk price.
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I read that the first Meteors were slower and inferior to the 262 in most ways.
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Yes, but the first meteors saw no action [EDIT: against piloted aircraft], were confined to the UK. The Mk.IIIs would be the only candidate that meets the criteria for aircraft in Aces High. It was improved over the Mk.I
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Originally posted by KAntti
Hello Gian! Long time no see eh :)
You surely know of my undying love for Italian planes and so do my Finnish friends over here. At first I did have in mind to propose the G.50 as a choice for a new plane (as if I had anything to say in this). Not only because it was the other extremely successful "underdog" used in FAF, but because it served in many fronts by many nations and it could also, with minimal tweaking be modified as C.200 another magnificent example of Italian aircraft design.
But, I do hope you understand the Finnish mentality towards the Brewster. This plane is considered to be almost something of a -Finnish fighter-. Designed in the thirties to meet US Navy requirements, failed miserably in every feature (including battle) and sold basicly as a scrap metal to Finland where it would rise from the ashes like a phoenix.
The Brewster is a plane that distinguishes the WWII Finnish Air Force from others. Like US had their P51, British their Spitfire, Germans their Messerschmitt, Italians their Folgore, Japanese their Zero and Russians their lots of planes, we Finnish had our Brewster. It's something that everyone rejected as an outcast but we took it in and made it one of our own. And even though the plane as a type might not have made a major impact in the scale of the WWII, it made a huge impact in the survival and independence of this small country.
I will gladly take what is given, but I think that when you consider the imagery of national WWII aviation monuments this game already holds, there really is no other plane that would fill a larger gap than the Brewster.
BR,
KAntti
Hi KAntti!!!!
Yes, it's a long time we don't meet, too long! I know about your love for italian planes and I know you and all the Finns aren't going to change your minds ;) I was just poking some fun back at Wmaker! It'll be a struggle between us till HTC will say what plane has won... but I'll remain friend of Finns pilot, no doubt! ;)
Willfly, you need an avatar, I see... what about mine? ;)
Zuum.... the Finns Brewster never flew against Zeroes... and as for the american ones... well, we all know how it ended... :D
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A26, Yak3, Ki100
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Originally posted by TwinBoom
speaking of countries that lack planes
why do french not have 1 single plane
Same reason they sell slightly used firearms? only dropped once :p
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Originally posted by TwinBoom
speaking of countries that lack planes
why do french not have 1 single plane
Good point. How could we forget all the uber French planes?
- oldman (..er...SPAD?)
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Originally posted by Atoon
Considering that the LWAs are 75% la7 & spit16, it seems that the masses would want improved versions of those models......................
Kinda interesting that everyone is voting on these obscure planes. I say if yer gonna spend the time making a plane, make somthing that will see some air.
IMO what the game(AH2) needs RIGHT NOW is maps, good maps. After that, Id prefer to see the release of TOD or whatever its GOING to be called, than to see any new planes/vehicles/new terrains added to AH2. I think actually playing TOD will help us decide what planes etc. would be ideal to add. Just like the gameplay helped determine what planes were added to AH & AH2.
Lets have some un-manned R/C recon planes, so when they get shot down by the horde we dont actually die.
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If we're talking jets, why not the Salamander, the HE 162? (don't recal the number)
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No we are talking the list Pyro gave us.
Try again.
Bronk
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Originally posted by BBBB
Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
-BB :noid
What the hell are you people thinking? I'm as much a WWII history buff as anyone else and I've never read anywhere where anyone said that the P39 was anything but a mediocre fighter at best and, without a supercharger, it's high alt performance is worse (you aint chasin bombers down with it). A P39 would be nothing more than an underpowered underarmoured IL2. I don't know where these fevered visions of air superiority for the P39 are coming from but they are simply not supported by any type of historical data. There's a reason we gave those things to the Russians with wild abandon. Much like the Buffalo, it was pretty much scrap compared to the other rides we had. Why didn't we lend lease P51s and F6F's to the Ruskies? DUH!! If the p39 is modeled right, it will be just more cannon fodder and after the initial release, will sit in hangers unused all across HT-Land. Unless everyone is just itching to straffe land targets with that huge 30mm (it was a wierd calaber 33mm or something like that) this plane is a waste of time. You people are gonna talk Pyro into doing up the P39 then we'll all be stuck with that pig.
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At the time they choose P39 for land lease, US had nothing better to offer
Also, they (Russians)reject p51's, 47's , 38's as not useful for eastern front.
If you are not ignorant , as you say. You should know why ;-)
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and why weren't they usefull on the eastern front??? DING DING DING, cause they needed ground attack planes, not fighters. Sorry, go read up, the P39 wasn't much of a fighter.
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Brewster Buffalo!!!
:D
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Originally posted by Bubbajj
What the hell are you people thinking? I'm as much a WWII history buff as anyone else and I've never read anywhere where anyone said that the P39 was anything but a mediocre fighter at best and, without a supercharger, it's high alt performance is worse (you aint chasin bombers down with it). A P39 would be nothing more than an underpowered underarmoured IL2. I don't know where these fevered visions of air superiority for the P39 are coming from but they are simply not supported by any type of historical data. There's a reason we gave those things to the Russians with wild abandon. Much like the Buffalo, it was pretty much scrap compared to the other rides we had. Why didn't we lend lease P51s and F6F's to the Ruskies? DUH!! If the p39 is modeled right, it will be just more cannon fodder and after the initial release, will sit in hangers unused all across HT-Land. Unless everyone is just itching to straffe land targets with that huge 30mm (it was a wierd calaber 33mm or something like that) this plane is a waste of time. You people are gonna talk Pyro into doing up the P39 then we'll all be stuck with that pig.
The P39 also has to be one of the fugliest planes ever. You can almost see by the shape of it that it cant be very good.
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Brewster:aok
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G-55 Centauro, He 111, He 177, Brewster Buffalo, Me 410
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Grande Tacito!!!! Prendi il mio avatar e unisciti alla lotta! :D
Great Tacitus!!!! Take my avatar and join the struggle! :D
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p39 or brewster
No G.55 no more ubber planes.
Its a temp clone,we need more planes to chase?
Look at the early war arenas, they are so lacking it is sick.
and here ya'll are pusing for another ubber ride for your country's pride.
What Karnak said first, more early rides before ubber ones.
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Originally posted by TwinBoom
speaking of countries that lack planes
why do french not have 1 single plane
The white flags keep blowing off.
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1/9th of your posts, at the least, involve French bashing.
You should be proud.
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Originally posted by Bubbajj
What the hell are you people thinking? I'm as much a WWII history buff as anyone else and I've never read anywhere where anyone said that the P39 was anything but a mediocre fighter at best and, without a supercharger, it's high alt performance is worse (you aint chasin bombers down with it). A P39 would be nothing more than an underpowered underarmoured IL2. I don't know where these fevered visions of air superiority for the P39 are coming from but they are simply not supported by any type of historical data. There's a reason we gave those things to the Russians with wild abandon. Much like the Buffalo, it was pretty much scrap compared to the other rides we had. Why didn't we lend lease P51s and F6F's to the Ruskies? DUH!! If the p39 is modeled right, it will be just more cannon fodder and after the initial release, will sit in hangers unused all across HT-Land. Unless everyone is just itching to straffe land targets with that huge 30mm (it was a wierd calaber 33mm or something like that) this plane is a waste of time. You people are gonna talk Pyro into doing up the P39 then we'll all be stuck with that pig.
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/pokri/pokri.htm
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Why do you guys keep going on and on about how the EW arena needs a new plane. Most of the player base is in the LW arenas. Why on earth would HTC throw away money on giving the very few EW guys a little known aircraft.
That is a nitch market. The G.55 did very little in the scheme of things in WWII. The Brewster was a little better, but was out classed every place except the eastern front.
AHII would be better served with a B25, A26 or P39. All three of those planes will play nicely in the LW arena, and they would be really great in the other arenas.
I feel the lack of a B25 is a glaring gap in the AHII plane set. It is a plane that contributed more to the war on every front than any other plane out there. It flew both attack missions and bombing missions, while also working antishipping and close air support. My choice is the B25, preferably the J model I think that is the best option for a new ride. The H model wouldnt be a bad choice neather.
-BB
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Originally posted by Bubbajj
What the hell are you people thinking? I'm as much a WWII history buff as anyone else and I've never read anywhere where anyone said that the P39 was anything but a mediocre fighter at best and, without a supercharger, it's high alt performance is worse (you aint chasin bombers down with it). A P39 would be nothing more than an underpowered underarmoured IL2. I don't know where these fevered visions of air superiority for the P39 are coming from but they are simply not supported by any type of historical data. There's a reason we gave those things to the Russians with wild abandon. Much like the Buffalo, it was pretty much scrap compared to the other rides we had. Why didn't we lend lease P51s and F6F's to the Ruskies? DUH!! If the p39 is modeled right, it will be just more cannon fodder and after the initial release, will sit in hangers unused all across HT-Land. Unless everyone is just itching to straffe land targets with that huge 30mm (it was a wierd calaber 33mm or something like that) this plane is a waste of time. You people are gonna talk Pyro into doing up the P39 then we'll all be stuck with that pig.
You are sadly misinformed. Try getting your info from someplace other than the history channel.
From Zeno's sight
Bell P-39Q Airacobra Vital Statistics
Type : Single seat fighter
Powerplant
One 1,200-hp (895-kW) Allison V-1710-83 liquid-cooled 12 cylinder vee piston engine, three blade Curtiss propeller
Performance
Maximum Speed:
386 mph (621km/h) at 9,500ft 92895 m)
Cruising Speed
200 mph (322k/hr)
Initial Climb: 4,000ft (1220m) per minute
Service Ceiling: 36,000ft (10973m)
Range: 650 miles (1945km)
Weights:
Empty: 5,610lb (2545 kg)
Max. Take-off: 8,400lb (3810kg)
Dimensions
Span: 34 ft 0 in ft (10.36m)
Length: 30 ft 23 in (9.19m)
Height: 11ft 10 in (3.61m)
Wing Area: 213 sq ft (19.79m2)
Armament
1 37mm canon
2 X 0.5 (12.7mm) Browning machine guns in fuselage
2 X 0.5 (12.7mm) Browning machine guns in optional wing pods
Bomb Load
1 X 500 lb (227 kg) bombs,
The specs are similar to what other sites and books give.
This is a MA AC once mastered. Its best below 15,000ft, just like the eastern front thats where most fights take place.
Now in the SEA setting this thing fills many holes. US, Russian, ETO, PTO, MED, North Africa. This little bugger was sent to do dirty jobs every where.
Bronk
Edit: Just for comparison a better P40 than we already have.
Vital Statistics Curtiss P-40N-20 Warhawk
Type : Single seat fighter/bomber
Power plant
One 1,360-hp (1015-kW) Allison V-1710-81 liquid-cooled 12 cylinder vee piston engine
Performance
Maximum Speed:
378 mph (609km/h) at 10,500ft (3210 m)
Climb to 15,000 ft (4590m): 6 min 42 sec
Service Ceiling: 38,000ft (10973m)
Range: 240 miles (386km)
Weights:
Empty: 6000lb (2724 kg)
Max. Take-off: 8,850lb (4018kg)
Dimensions
Span: 37 ft 4in ft (11.42m)
Length: 33 ft 4 in (10.2m)
Height: 12ft 4 in (3.77m)
Wing Area: 236sq ft (21.95m2)
Armament
6 X 0.5 (12.7mm) Browning machine guns in wings
Bomb Load
1 X 500 lb (227 kg) bomb
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Ok lets go B29...and to even things out ..the F86 Sabre jet!..now we talking fun!
999000
I still like the idea of the huge transport that could land..open up and you drive a small tank out of it! fun fun fun!
999000
Still like the idea of a bunch of blips up over the airfields!
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How much ammo could the 39 carry for that 37mm?
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All in all, the most we need are usefull planes in main arena, although other planes can be pretty, in a short time they will be hangar's queens.
My vote go for:
a26 - a very fast fighter bomber
me 410 - a high step over the me-110, one of the most used attack twin engines
yak3 - very easy to model from yak 9, and for the type of fight, it is is well dressed, fast and agile to dogfight
Just my opinion, passao
Pd: by the way, salute you all
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Originally posted by moot
How much ammo could the 39 carry for that 37mm?
I believe it was 30 rounds.
Bronk
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The more I think of it the more I am inclined to support the P.39.
I would prefer a 2.0cm/M2 armed variant, with the appropriate skin of course.
If we do get the P.39, are we to get multiple variants or one with different skins and ordinance packages that will be used as a cure-all?
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I think B25 or P39
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Originally posted by passssao
yak3 - very easy to model from yak 9, and for the type of fight, it is is well dressed, fast and agile to dogfight
Just my opinion, passao
Pd: by the way, salute you all
Umm since it will be up to NEW modeling specs it would be a whole new model.
So no easier/harder than a completely new AC.
Bronk
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Originally posted by quintv
1/9th of your posts, at the least, involve French bashing.
You should be proud.
Lighten up, it was just a joke.
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Originally posted by quintv
The more I think of it the more I am inclined to support the P.39.
I would prefer a 2.0cm/M2 armed variant, with the appropriate skin of course.
If we do get the P.39, are we to get multiple variants or one with different skins and ordinance packages that will be used as a cure-all?
Since its more of a load out/flight perf as opposed to visual diff. I cant see why 3 or 4 variants wouldn't be done. It would be better to do them now than to go back later.
IMO In terms of most overlooked but widely used. The P-39 is a glaring example of it.
Bronk
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All unperked
First Choice:
HE 111, B-25 or G55, JU52 - heavy - M3 lift.
Second Choice:
Mig 3 or P-39 / P - 400
My Choice: :aok
B-25 or JU52 - heavy - M3 lift.
Or maybe something different ! :O
Grumman Duck or PBY Catalina search & rescue operations of down pilots. Both are suited for land or sea operations.
Launch the duck from the land or carrier for rescue or supplies: 1 qty - Airfield or 5 qty - VH supplies and / or 5 qty - troops. :D
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Originally posted by Goat1
Lighten up, it was just a joke.
FOCLMGBO! hehehe :rofl :rofl :rofl
Uhm... I don't recall the French having any kind of effective Air Force at all in WW2.
Now in WW1, yes they did, but this is WW2 so...
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Yak please. Don't vote in a hanger queen fellas.
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odee you should read a history book once in awhile
french were mearly outnumbered but the luftwaffe:rolleyes:
there where several french aces in ww2
so please remove ur foot from your mouth b4 u speak sir
try this rule
think about what ur going to say
then think about it again
then dont say it
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Originally posted by Odee
FOCLMGBO! hehehe :rofl :rofl :rofl
Uhm... I don't recall the French having any kind of effective Air Force at all in WW2.
Now in WW1, yes they did, but this is WW2 so...
Guess they must have not had any FAF specials on the history channel.
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http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/bw384/
Brewster BW-384 memorial revelared - 22.3.2007
Finnish air-traffic controllers built a 1:5 scale model airplane to honor their veteran colleagues, the air-traffic controllers of the post World War II generation. Large portion of the first controllers were war pilots, who practically hand-built the Finnish air-traffic control system from scratch when during the late 1940s and 1950s.
The airplane modeled was Brewster fighter BW-384 "White seven", the personal airplane ensign Aarno Siro flew in the last battles of Continuation War against Soviet Union, during summer 1944. Post-war Aarno Siro was one of the first air-traffic controllers and worked as such for 22 years.
BW-384 flew its first flight 5.4.1940 and was delivered to LLv 24 6 days later. During its career BW-384 was flown by for example I. Törrönen, L. Nissinen, L. Pekuri and Aarno Siro. The total flight time of BW-384 was 729 hours and it was removed from operational use in 1952. The plane is credited with 18 aerial victories. Its most successful pilot was Lauri Nissinen with 10 victories in BW-384.
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/bw384/
(http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/bw384/slides/P1170508.jpg)
Fiat G.50/Brewster B-239 fighter pilot Aarno Siro with Messerschmitt 109 pilot Erkki Ehanti in front of BW-384, modeled as Siro's plane from summer 1944.
(http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/bw384/slides/P1170545.JPG)
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/bw384/
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Originally posted by Sindon
Yak please. Don't vote in a hanger queen fellas.
Ki-44, J2M3, G.55, Tu-2 and Pe-2 would not be hangar queens.
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only thing against the yak is that its a variant and I would rather see stuff that isnt already represented.
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18 pages and STILL no love for the ground pounders . . . :cry
The Firefly will be sweet, but they are already considering removing what little anti-aircraft protection the screenshots show.
There is only one solution . . .
We need this.
(http://membres.lycos.fr/fass3d/rnl/Wirbelwind.jpg)
(http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/anowe/wirbelwind_1.jpg)
(http://www.hobbylinc.com/gr/unx/unx80027.jpg)
Why a lowly grunt had to bring this up is unclear. A courts-martial will be established to investigate allegations of dereliction of duty by the squad CO.
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Originally posted by E25280
Snip
Quiet you, we're getting a Firefly.
;)
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
You are sadly misinformed. Try getting your info from someplace other than the history channel.
From Zeno's sight
Bell P-39Q Airacobra Vital Statistics
Type : Single seat fighter
Powerplant
One 1,200-hp (895-kW) Allison V-1710-83 liquid-cooled 12 cylinder vee piston engine, three blade Curtiss propeller
Performance
Maximum Speed:
386 mph (621km/h) at 9,500ft 92895 m)
Cruising Speed
200 mph (322k/hr)
Initial Climb: 4,000ft (1220m) per minute
Service Ceiling: 36,000ft (10973m)
Range: 650 miles (1945km)
Weights:
Empty: 5,610lb (2545 kg)
Max. Take-off: 8,400lb (3810kg)
Dimensions
Span: 34 ft 0 in ft (10.36m)
Length: 30 ft 23 in (9.19m)
Height: 11ft 10 in (3.61m)
Wing Area: 213 sq ft (19.79m2)
Armament
1 37mm canon
2 X 0.5 (12.7mm) Browning machine guns in fuselage
2 X 0.5 (12.7mm) Browning machine guns in optional wing pods
Bomb Load
1 X 500 lb (227 kg) bombs,
History Channel, yes...
Those figures seem to be a bit of suspect when looking at the altitude where the topspeed is achieved (assuming you mean the altitude which is in feet is correct :)) and the very low cruising speed. Also the max. take off weight is awfully high. Also I don't really buy that climbrate. AHT lists climb rate for Q as 3250fpm with combat power.
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Originally posted by Wmaker
History Channel, yes...
Those figures seem to be a bit of suspect when looking at the altitude where the topspeed is achieved (assuming you mean the altitude which is in feet is correct :)) and the very low cruising speed. Also the max. take off weight is awfully high. Also I don't really buy that climbrate. AHT lists climb rate for Q as 3250fpm with combat power.
I take exception to what you cut out.
The specs are similar to what other sites and books give.
Such as on wep HP 1590hp for the P-39 N2, from Americas hundred thousand.
Iv'e seen speeds as low as 350 mph and as high as 399 mph.
I've read climbrate as low as 2500 to 4100.
Cruise 200 to as high as 270.
Also from aht. Gross wt bomber mode 8086, normal load 7570.
I used Zeno's numbers as I was on the sight looking around and it was convenient. Don't think I haven't looked at multiple sources.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Don't think I haven't looked at multiple sources.
Did I somehow let you believe otherwise?
AHT is a great and well researched book which consists mostly of primary source material. That is why I tend to believe it. Even the heaviest ferry-configuration listed falls almost 300lbs short of 8400lbs.
4000fpm climb rate just seems a bit optimistic and AHT seems to confirm it. Also the top speeds are achieved well over 10000 feet. Quote from AHT:
"For late model N and Q airplanes increased engine performance above 12000 feet provided some extra speed capability, so the Airacobra could make about 375mph up to 20000 feet before the speed fell off at higher altitudes. The USAAF speed estimates shown for the P-39Q (*) may be optimistic."
*the speeds talked about are flown with MIL power.
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Originally posted by BaDkaRmA158Th
No G.55 no more ubber planes.
MadFarma, the G.55 is NOT an uberplane, it is just a GOOD plane... nothing more, nothing less. So, please, mind your speech, don't create false perceptions in people who doesn't know much about this plane.
E25280, no love for the ground pounders only because Pyro said they're gonna add an airplane! ;)
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
E25280, no love for the ground pounders only because Pyro said they're gonna add an airplane! ;)
I believe his words were they didn't want to bother with the work involved in a 4-engine "heavy". Not until CT is out, is my guess.
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Originally posted by Wmaker
Did I somehow let you believe otherwise?
AHT is a great and well researched book which consists mostly of primary source material. That is why I tend to believe it. Even the heaviest ferry-configuration listed falls almost 300lbs short of 8400lbs.
4000fpm climb rate just seems a bit optimistic and AHT seems to confirm it. Also the top speeds are achieved well over 10000 feet. Quote from AHT:
"For late model N and Q airplanes increased engine performance above 12000 feet provided some extra speed capability, so the Airacobra could make about 375mph up to 20000 feet before the speed fell off at higher altitudes. The USAAF speed estimates shown for the P-39Q (*) may be optimistic."
*the speeds talked about are flown with MIL power.
Thats quite interesting, I'd like to see what is was flat out with wep.
Also is climb done at wep or mil power?
Bronk
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I’ll give both of my votes for the P-39.
If we can only give one vote per plane I’ll cast the second for the Buffalo.
BTW, has anyone gone through and tallied the votes?
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Originally posted by Bronk
Also is climb done at wep or mil power?
Not sure which one you mean...
...I could have worded my comment better. I meant that the climb rate at combat power (3250fpm) which is mentioned in AHT confirms that the 4000fpm figure seems quite optimistic.
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Brewster rules!;-)
:aok
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AHT chart list it as mil or combat power.
Wmaker, you stated it did about 375 on mil power. Thats corresponds to the chart in AHT.
*the speeds talked about are flown with MIL power.
Since the climb is also listed as combat power.
How much speed and climb does War emergency add.
I do agree that 4000 is a bit optimistic.
But 3250 fpm on mil is respectable.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
AHT chart list it as mil or combat power.
Wmaker, you stated it did about 375 on mil power. Thats corresponds to the chart in AHT.
Since the climb is also listed as combat power.
How much speed and climb does War emergency add.
I do agree that 4000 is a bit optimistic.
But 3250 fpm on mil is respectable.
Wep=Combat power
It climbed 3250fpm on Wep.
Like Fracis Dean states in AHT 375mph may be a bit optimistic with 1125hp. There is no mention about the WEP speed in AHT.
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Brewster for being one of the most legendary fighters for us finns!
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The Brewster, Me-410, and A-26 aint happening. Of the others I would guess the P-39, B-25, He-111, Yak-3 and a Japanese fighter are the most likely.
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Originally posted by Wmaker
Wep=Combat power
It climbed 3250fpm on Wep.
Like Fracis Dean states in AHT 375mph may be a bit optimistic with 1125hp. There is no mention about the WEP speed in AHT.
Rgr on the climb I read it wrong.
This From AHT
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/p-39.jpg)
At approximately 12000 ft it's pretty much maxed out at about 375 mph, and that we know is mil.
If wep adds about 10 mph like most other ac in game that would bring it up to about 385.
No?
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
Rgr on the climb I read it wrong.
This From AHT
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/1bronk1/p-39.jpg)
At approximately 12000 ft it's pretty much maxed out at about 375 mph, and that we know is mil.
If wep adds about 10 mph like most other ac in game that would bring it up to about 385.
No?
Well actually 295hp increase would bring it close or over 400mph I'm thinking. That is why I think (and Dean says) that the 375mph is a bit optimistic with only 1125hp.
About the top speed on wep I really can't say for sure right now. I don't have any other primary sources with me. I might have something in the depths of my HD...will need a bit digging. But yes I think 385mph could make sense.
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I'd like to see speed, time to climb and rate of climb for the D2 on wep (1590hp).
If you can find that I'd love to see it.
Bronk
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One more thing, then I'm off to bed. :)
Considering the fairly low altitude where P-39 achieves its top speed the 375mph claim with MIL is really starting to sound weird. Actually at that altitude 385mph is pretty damned fast even with ~1400hp. The air is quite a bit thicker at 12000ft compared to the altitudes where the WETO birds achieved their top speeds. We have to look into it a bit further.
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A-26 & G.55
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Originally posted by Wmaker
One more thing, then I'm off to bed. :)
Considering the fairly low altitude where P-39 achieves its top speed the 375mph claim with MIL is really starting to sound weird. Actually at that altitude 385mph is pretty damned fast even with ~1400hp. The air is quite a bit thicker at 12000ft compared to the altitudes where the WETO birds achieved their top speeds. We have to look into it a bit further.
Damn, couldn't sleep after all. :D
Actually 385mph is in the realm of possibility. If I had to guess P-39Q-1 with normal surface quality would do 380mph. But it's no point guessing...
Widewing, do you happen to have any figures with combat power?
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BREWSTER :)
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B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!B25!!!
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Beef, where you been???
So, you gonna vote for the G.55? :t :t :t :t
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Hehe I've been taking a break for now, though a Bomber of the 25th kinda might rekindle the fire.
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Tdrbr has convinced me the A-26 is the key to the future.
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Originally posted by Pyro
Here's the preliminary list of the candidates.
P-39
Brewster Buffalo
Me 410
He 111
B-25
Pe-2 or Tu-2
Yak 3
G.55
Japanese fighter - Ki 44, J2M, Ki 45, or Ki 43
A-26
No GVs !?
Plz, build the wilberwind,
LTARs are asking for it for last 4-5 years !
(http://www.tankhunters.net/vitrina/WILBER8.JPG)
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Originally posted by Wmaker
Damn, couldn't sleep after all. :D
Actually 385mph is in the realm of possibility. If I had to guess P-39Q-1 with normal surface quality would do 380mph. But it's no point guessing...
Widewing, do you happen to have any figures with combat power?
I don't have anything that I would consider authoritative. Angelucci and Bowers claim 385 mph @ 15k and 360 mph @ 10k for the P-39Q-20. Even if this is correct, I doubt that P-39Qs in heavy service could attain more that 375 mph unless the ground crew dedicated a great amount of time to surface finish and panel fit. The P-39 had a relatively low CDo, but it was still greater than the P-51A's. Thus, I simply don't see them being as fast. The V1710-85 in the P-39Q was rated at 1,420 hp @ 9,700 feet. That's 270 hp more than the V1710-63 in the P-39D. So, 375 mph to 380 mph is probably pretty close to reality.
My regards,
Widewing
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Brewster Model 239
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Good details for HTC modelers:
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/bw384/
:aok
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If for no other reason then because our old Airwarrior buddy Earl Miller was flying P39s well into 1944 in the MTO against the LW.
DFC, Silver Star, flying combat from 42-early 45 when he finally rotated home. The guys in the 350th FG seemed to do OK in the 39. They had success against 109s because the 109s had to come down to them and the 39 was fine down low where the AH airwar is fought for the most part.
I'd love to see Earl's kite skinned for this game. I'd fly it in a heartbeat :)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1097006835_corsica442.jpg)
Earl's bird, named for his sister.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1096612092_eloise1.jpg)
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He111 --> for the BOB scenario
The "Brewster" --> for the Fin's ;)
P39 --> for pac scenarios
Ki 43 --> (s.a. P39)
Pe2/Tu2 --> the first buff for the russians?
B25 --> because it's not in AH for the Doolittle's
Yak3 --> we have the Yak9, why the 3 and not a Rata or MiG3 ?
A26 --> feeling like Airwarrior dancing buffs
Ki44 --> more jap cannons move in
J2M --> (s.a. Ki44)
Me410 --> more than a 110
G55 --> best italian i think
Mmmmmmmh, not easy to choose :(
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Originally posted by MINNOW
A-26 & G.55
Pssst.... Minnow..... only one plane's gonna be added.... then say G.55! ;)
Ghi, a GV is already OTW, the much requested Sherman.... next one have to be a plane... too much time we're all waiting for a new airframe!
Oh, yes, and... good details for HTC modellers...
Fiat G.55 Centauro (http://www.ams.vr.it/AircWalkAround/Museo%20Vignadivalle/Fiat_G.55/Fiat%20G.55%20Centauro%20pag%2001.htm)
:aok
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Brewster !!!!
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How about something for CVs? The Hawker Sea Fury, tho can't remember how many made it to service, I know it was a late war plane.
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Is the Yak3 a not variant of the Yak9U/T?
Well if the AH Spit XVI is a variant then so would be the AH Yak3.
Spit XVI has similar fuselage to its predecessors so does the Yak3 (cockpit is a little further forward tho)
Spit XVI has a dissimilar wing to its predecessors so does the Yak3.
Spit XVI has a different flight model to its predecessors so does the Yak3.
Spit XVI has the same ordinance as one of its (AH)predecessors so does the Yak3.
Hence I would argue that when it is the turn of the Yaks to be "upgraded" then the Yak9D/M and the Yak3 should at least be added to the present Yak9T and Yak9U. Thus completing the Yak set from 43 to 45.
Once players see what a Yak3 should be able to do low and dirty I do believe that the Yak3 would be a fairly popular MA ride unlike any of the others listed.
Having said that the Finns should get their Brewster now and we can wait for the Yaks to be upgraded.
(unless one of the objectives of this list was to announce that the Yak3 will not be in an upcoming Yak upgrade [please pardon any note of cynicism])
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Originally posted by mongo36
How about something for CVs? The Hawker Sea Fury, tho can't remember how many made it to service, I know it was a late war plane.
Was post WWII.........
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How about a Sea Hurri or a Bf109T ? :)
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ME410 & P39
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A26 & LA 9 (fun stuff ) :t
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Originally posted by Widewing
I doubt that P-39Qs in heavy service could attain more that 375 mph unless the ground crew dedicated a great amount of time to surface finish and panel fit. The P-39 had a relatively low CDo, but it was still greater than the P-51A's. Thus, I simply don't see them being as fast. The V1710-85 in the P-39Q was rated at 1,420 hp @ 9,700 feet. That's 270 hp more than the V1710-63 in the P-39D. So, 375 mph to 380 mph is probably pretty close to reality.
My toughts exactly. Thanks!
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I vote for G.55 and Ki44.:aok
Fiat G55/I
Max Speed 375mph at 6000m, 387 at 7,000m, 391 at 8000m
climb 7.2min to 6000m, 8.57min to 7000m, 10.18min to 8000m
(A better climb ability is reported that 7'12" as the time to reach 7000 m.)
Range (Internal) 746miles at 304mph, (2x22gal DT) 1,025miles at 354mph
Armament 1 x 20 with 380 rpg, 2 x 20 with 200 rpg, 2 x 12.7 with 300 rpg.
From¡Ghttp://xoomer.alice.it/g55/index.htm
-------------------------------
Ki-44IIc
Max Speed 605km¡þ5200m
climb 4.26min to 5000m
Range 1,060 miles
Armament 4 x 12.7 machine gun.
From¡Ghttp://earth.endless.ne.jp/users/mac0115/ki44.html
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CPW, I didn't check all the data about the G.55 given in that site, but I'd be careful: he claims that his data about ammo load of the Series I are from a book I have, and they're no correct... it has 250 rounds in the hub cannon.
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+1 for the A26.
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he111!! sry g55 but my He111 is more important
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Change your mind! I know you can! G.55... the He111 can wait! :D
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How can you go wrong!!!! Vote G.55!!!!!
I'm gonna kill me some Lala's!!!!!!! :cool:
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B25 How could it not be there..The Tokyo Bomber. This plane should have been here already.
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Fighter: KI-43
Bomber: B-25
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YAK 3
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G.55 gets my vote
Been reading some stuff online and can't find very many positives about the brewster buffalo other than the Fins were able to net the most gains from it with a reported 26:1 kill ratio(during the later part of the war when the Germans were retreating). Americans rejected it after midway, anyone got any useful links with info on the history of this plane?
Second place for me would be the p39.
lwcody
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Dan Ford's site has excellent Brewster material, here (http://www.warbirdforum.com/buff.htm).
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TU-2 ,
East front/russian need a bomber with formation option,
like,
German - ju88s,
Japanesse - ki-67,
USAF---B17,24,26,
RAF--lancs
i don't say the other sides are well represented with models in game, but Red Army /east front is not represented at all,
(http://www.shanaberger.com/images/Tu-2_7.jpg)
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Originally posted by ghi
TU-2 ,
East front/russian need a bomber with formation option,
like,
German - ju88s,
Japanesse - ki-67,
USAF---B17,24,26,
RAF--lancs
i don't say the other sides are well represented with models in game, but Red Army /east front is not represented at all,
(http://www.shanaberger.com/images/Tu-2_7.jpg)
Did they do much bombing? Just wondering... that plane looks like it can hold about a six pack of beer and that's it. :)
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Had a 6,000 or 8,000lb max load as I recall.
I am at work, so no reference books here.
Those engines are the same as the La-7s, for a sense of scale.
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According to Time Life's "The Soviet Air Force at War", it carried 2200lbs with a top speed of 340mph, and a range of... crap, what was it? Something between 1300 and 1600 miles. It had 2x 20mm guns I think fixed in the nose and 2 defensive 12.7mms
Still, 2200 is nothing to sneeze at. Twice that of the Pe-2, basically.
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P-39
or
He111
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Panzzer, Cody has already chosen, don't try to divert his vote!!! :D ;)
Cody, you made the right choice, you'll see the Centauro won't disappoint you once we'll be able to unleash its full power in the virtual skies of AH! :aok
VOTE FOR THE G.55, PEOPLE, YOU WON'T REGRET IT!
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Oh my dear Gianlupo...
G55 is a wish...it was not reality. That thing was just a rare example and some sort of prototype of a possible new plane.
G.55 was not a serious frontline fighter.
OK?
Wake up!
The community is calling for a NEW plane.
There is an answer.
It is:
The Brewster!
:D :aok
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Originally posted by a poor drunk Finn :D
Oh my dear Gianlupo...
G55 is a wish...it was not reality. That thing was just a rare example and some sort of prototype of a possible new plane.
G.55 was not a serious frontline fighter.
OK?
Wake up!
The community is calling for a NEW plane.
There is an answer.
It is:
The Brewster!
ROFLOL!!!! :lol
You're joking, aren't you??? Why, having a B239 modeled after the Finns' one, i.e. as a minority (how many did you have? 50?) is possible and having a front line fighter, built in almost 200 examplars, 150 of which served against one of the best trained air force of the time is impossible???
A dream you say??? No, it's not, it was reality and far from a prototype. Sorry, my dear, nice try, but your shot landed far away from the target.
Wake up before shooting! ;)
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I think you know I'm voting for the
B-25C
He'll be 86 on Dec 30.... not much more time I think to get this done.
Please honor this man and his service; I would be extremely grateful.
(http://www.arizonaprogreen.com/quitch/q%206.jpg)
That's him on the right in 2002; he started pilot training in 1942 in a Fairchild PT-19. He lives in Nebraska, so we got him a PT-26 (same plane with canopy). He still flies it but with a safety pilot along with him.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/875_1174958101_pc120132.jpg)
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Toad,
If you want a virtual B-25 for your father I'm pretty sure that for realistic systems and pure piloting point of view the best possible example would be the Mid Atlantic Air Museum's B-25 for FS2004.
It is a J-model but I'm sure it would still bring back lots of memories.
http://www.maam.org/flightsim/PACKAGES/BT.htm
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Originally posted by mongo36
How about something for CVs? The Hawker Sea Fury, tho can't remember how many made it to service, I know it was a late war plane.
I vote B25 , but here is a pick of a Hawker Sea Fury at my local CAF hanger from my airport I fly out of. New engine was put in, from the A-1 skyraider! it is FAST!!!
(http://myspace-584.vo.llnwd.net/01558/48/59/1558769584_l.jpg) B25 B25
http://www.myspace.com/saabmark
(http://myspace-768.vo.llnwd.net/01558/86/76/1558766768_l.jpg)
(http://myspace-896.vo.llnwd.net/01558/69/85/1558765896_l.jpg)
VOTE B-25!!!!!!!:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
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Anyone notice Toad dresses a little funny?
;)
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Anyone notice Toad dresses a little funny?
;)
you should see muppy in her pink princess dress sitting on the curb crying.
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I don't know if its been asked yet,
but which B-25 variant are we talking about here?
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Originally posted by 96Delta
I don't know if its been asked yet,
but which B-25 variant are we talking about here?
Originally posted by Pyro
My synopsis IMHO.
B-25 – Cool plane, one of my favorites as a kid and another sentimental favorite for various reasons. Good for several variants and who wouldn’t want to fly a plane that has a 75mm cannon and 14 .50s?
:noid :noid :noid
With that and Toad's dad in the mix. I am having second thoughts on the P-39.
Bronk
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Anyone notice Toad dresses a little funny?
;)
One of the very finest of days in my memory bank. Pheasant hunting in the early morning with family and then an afternoon in the PT-26 with my father.
A truly great day.
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HE-111:aok
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Yakovlev Yak-3 :aok
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BREWSTER
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Brewster Buffalo:)
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I will be voting for the British plane... oh wait...
Italian...
Japanese...
American...
American/Finnish...
American/Russian
Russian...
:(
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B-25! with the option of the gun version in addition to standard Bomber variant.
V/R
NAVCAD
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Think I found a gv killer. Been using the b26 so long, but a solo one of these please.. A20 aint got nothing on it.
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Originally posted by Ball
I will be voting for the British plane... oh wait...
Italian...
Japanese...
American...
American/Finnish...
American/Russian
Russian...
:(
So, belly shaker, you'll have to vote for the first one on that list of yours! ;)
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I will very likely vote for the Brewster (early war, and for the Finnish), TU2/PE2 and 410 in that order.
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Originally posted by Turbo76
I vote B25 , but here is a pick of a Hawker Sea Fury at my local CAF hanger from my airport I fly out of. New engine was put in, from the A-1 skyraider! it is FAST!!!
(http://myspace-584.vo.llnwd.net/01558/48/59/1558769584_l.jpg) B25 B25
http://www.myspace.com/saabmark
(http://myspace-768.vo.llnwd.net/01558/86/76/1558766768_l.jpg)
(http://myspace-896.vo.llnwd.net/01558/69/85/1558765896_l.jpg)
VOTE B-25!!!!!!!:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
Hey Turbo,nice pics!!
I seen lot crazzy cropdusters not far from West Memphis in Arkansas around I-40,I-55, are flying those yellow birds like Spits,realy low and acrobatic,
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Originally posted by Pyro
My synopsis IMHO.
B-25 – Cool plane, one of my favorites as a kid and another sentimental favorite for various reasons. Good for several variants and who wouldn’t want to fly a plane that has a 75mm cannon and 14 .50s?
Wow.
I'm not much of a bomber guy, so I probably would have ended up following the Finns or Gian....but how can you turn down those B-25 options? A 12x50 nose mount? A 75mm cannon? All that, and a smiling ToadDaddy?
Now I'm REALLY hoping the fates don't make me choose between these in the last election....
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Simaril, my friend! Vote for me, the Finns don't need your vote! ;)
Furball.... you nice british guy..... :furious :D
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Brewster model 239
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A 26
please!!!!
And can we add some cannons to the nose just for fun and a way to burn perkies
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What type of B-25 are we talking about ?
As long as it's totaly kitted out with gun turrets I'm happy :D
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Originally posted by Kazaa
What type of B-25 are we talking about ?
As long as it's totaly kitted out with gun turrets I'm happy :D
Well, a B-25H would be my choice for dealing
with pesky GVs and ships. :cool:
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Originally posted by Ball
I will be voting for the British plane... oh wait...
Italian...
Japanese...
American...
American/Finnish...
American/Russian
Russian...
:(
As much as I'd like to see the 26 for sentimental reasons or the P61 (which isnt listed)
I'll be voting against any of the American planes (including the 39)
Just too many other planessets that have been ignored for too long.
another Jap plane would be good. or a Russian bomber or the 410 would get my votes.
39 looks to me to end up being yet another crotchrocket for the HO crowd like the La7
And in all fairness we already have too much of an imbalance of American made planes
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The 39 was slow and so was its ROF.. The La7 tards would probably not cope with those two very well.
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If they go by the info on the link on the mainpage HTC provided
they aint that slow
"Maximum speed: 376 mph; (605 km/h; Redline dive speed=525 mph.) "
Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-39_Airacobra)
Only 2MPH slower then the Spit V as listed by the same source
And ya dont need to be fast to be an HO artist. OR have a great ROF
You just ned to get a round in the target.
Mark my words.
If the 39 gets voted in.
It will become a new favorite for HO dweebs
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
If they go by the info on the link on the mainpage HTC provided
they aint that slow
"Maximum speed: 376 mph; (605 km/h; Redline dive speed=525 mph.) "
Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-39_Airacobra)
Only 2MPH slower then the Spit V as listed by the same source
And ya dont need to be fast to be an HO artist. OR have a great ROF
You just ned to get a round in the target.
Mark my words.
If the 39 gets voted in.
It will become a new favorite for HO dweebs
Yea cuz we have soooooo many Hoing Yak-Ts running around.
pfffft
Bronk
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Brewster
I really have to thank You all for those numerous votes!!!
Looks great!
Brewster rules!!
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Originally posted by Bronk
Yea cuz we have soooooo many Hoing Yak-Ts running around.
pfffft
Bronk
We'll see.
Right now I'd have to say the 39 is the odds on favorite to win.
Just too many supporters for it for the others in the list to have a fair chance
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I'll take anything new.:aok
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B25H sounds just darling with parafrag's ummm nummy
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Brewster
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My vote is for the following:
HE-111
B-25
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G.55! G.55! G.55!
PYRO, remember we've found the original 1944 flight manuals and even the tech designs, with the whole wing project!
Look at what your missing guys (this is the TW:TT G.55 work in progress):
(http://www.evil-turkey.de/TW/images/tt_g55S1_001.jpg)
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Originally posted by gatt
Look at what your missing guys
OMG! it looks exactly like a C.205!
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Originally posted by Ball
OMG! it looks exactly like a C.205!
Arghhhh !!! :rolleyes:
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(http://avia.russian.ee/pictures/italy/macchi_c-205.gif)
(http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/2969/g551yp6.gif)
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I'd rather have the Re.2005 than the G.55.
:D
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CR.42! :D
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:noid (http://www.finn.it/regia/immagini/reggiane/re2005.jpg):noid
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Originally posted by Ball
OMG! it looks exactly like a C.205!
Both of their air frame were good. But G.55's design still better. The french also love it:lol
The same design
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9383/2534ul3.jpg)
Syrian love G.55,too:aok
(http://www.acig.org/artman/uploads/sy04.jpg)
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Fairey Battle - but it would have to be highly perked :aok
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CPW... that's Egypt! ;)
Gatt, thanks for coming, bro! :)
Slash, sorry, I'd like to see the Re.2005, too, but it's been built and it served in too few exemplars...
Ball, it may look similar, but it's not, and you know it very well.... Stop breaking my precious..... errr..... data!!! :D
Just think about it: wing loading of the C.205 is 202,9 Kg/sq.m, for the G.55 the value is 176.2....
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Slash, sorry, I'd like to see the Re.2005, too, but it's been built and it served in too few exemplars...
You mean it had even less of a production run than the 130 G.55's? Say it aint so!
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no more pizza for you VWE :D
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If the boss says that the G.55 is one of the possible new entries, I'm sorry for you and your irons :)
Jokes apart, the behaviour of the two fighters (I mean the G.55 and the C.205) was pretty different. The G.55 was probably the best mid war bomber interceptor. As far as maneuverability at very high alt and ammo load are concerned, even the 109G with gun pods was an unarmed pig compared to it.
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
CPW... that's Egypt! ;)
Sorry,I type so quickly and make a mistake.
By the way, add some pics:)
(http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1047/13582956nt6.jpg)
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As far as maneuverability at very high alt
Pleeease... enough with it, you not going to fly it at high alt, your not going to use it to intercept buffs, your going to jump into a furball or at the least cherry pick in it. Even at 20k plus its still under 400mph, I bet its slower than a P-40E below 15k and other than half a dozen die hards it'll be a hanger queen.
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Originally posted by VWE
Pleeease... enough with it, you not going to fly it at high alt, your not going to use it to intercept buffs, your going to jump into a furball or at the least cherry pick in it. Even at 20k plus its still under 400mph, I bet its slower than a P-40E below 15k and other than half a dozen die hards it'll be a hanger queen.
Maybe not.
In February 1943 a German test commission was sent in Italy to evaluate the new Italian fighters. The commission was led by Oberst Petersen and was formed by Luftwaffe officiers and pilots nad by technical personnel, among them the Flugbaumeister Malz. The Germans carried with them also several aircrafts included a Fw190A and a Me109G for direct comparison tests in simulated dogfights.
The tests began February 20. The German commission, not without a certain surprise, was very impressed by the Italian aircrafts, the G55 in particular. In general, all the Serie 5's were very good at low altitudes, but the G55 was competitive with its German opponents also in term of speed and climb rate at high altitudes still maintaining superior handling characteristics. The definitive evaluation by the German commission was "excellent" for the G55, "good" for the Re2005 and "average" for the MC205. Oberst Petersen defined the G55 "the best fighter in the Axis" and immediately telegraphed his impressions to Goering. After listening the recommendations of Petersen, Milch and Galland, a meeting held by Goering on February 22 voted to produce the G55 in Germany.
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I think G.55 is the most balance Axis fighter. It has good speed,turn radius,climb rate,range,and firepower. Especially it also beautiful:aok
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CPW,
I've got that report from Rechlin (february 27, 1943). The interesting thing is that the G.55 and the Re2005 did well at limited settings (1.3ata and 2,600rpm) against the 190A-5 (at full power) and the 109G-4 (settings not mentioned). The 205 had oil cooling problems and could not demonstrate his superiority in climbing.
VWE,
I'm not a subscriber anymore, so dont worry ;)
Gian,
howdy! Check your six ;)
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Originally posted by VWE
Pleeease... enough with it, you not going to fly it at high alt, your not going to use it to intercept buffs, your going to jump into a furball or at the least cherry pick in it. Even at 20k plus its still under 400mph, I bet its slower than a P-40E below 15k and other than half a dozen die hards it'll be a hanger queen.
As Krusty [EDIT: it's CPW, sorry, too many identical avatars! :D] posted, VWE, it handled well even at low altitudes... Thing about it... the G.55 has a wing loading of 176.2 kg/sq.m, the Spit VIII 150,8, the 109F4 182.2, just to give you some term of comparison... it willl handle fairly even at low altitude.
Btw, production was of almost 200 examplars, 148 were delivered to the ANR, 15 were destroyed in the factory, during bombing and 37 more were ready when the factory was captured (with 73 more being at various completion stage on the production line)
The Wikipedia page was not correct and lacking in many things, so I edited it.
Gatt, I always check 6! ;) Btw, you have a PM!
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My Vote:
Bell P-39D Aircobra
Mitsubishi J2M3 Raiden (JACK)
! :aok
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I vote A-26 Invader. Both B Attack (solid gun nose) and C Level Bomber/Pathfinder (glass nose w norden bombsite)versions. Two planes for work of one.
And with up to 14 forward firing .50's with 400 rpg..... and with all the HO's in the arenas.... you'd think this would be an easy win.
Perk worthy bomber for buff drivers to spend perk points on. Limit the "bomb-and-bail" tactics a bit.
And, should it come out ahead, The Sim-Outhouse's A-26 Invader project for FS9 and FSX is nearly done. Lot's of detailed work already collected and done there as far as research into flight model numbers. I'm sure they'd share with HTC. Lot's of info posted right in their forums too for that matter.
Cockpit shots. Flight data.
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/forumdisplay.php?f=49 (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/forumdisplay.php?f=49)
If the P-39 wins, I'll be pushing very hard for a Russian one. Nod to Lend-Lease. 2nd highest Allied Ace of WWII was a Russian flying the P39 (and P63). Put a Russian skin on the Airacobra and place it in the Russian plane set, I say.
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A 26 has my vote :cool:
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Just posting to try and get the system to stop e-mailing me every time someone posts in here, carry on. :mad:
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Originally posted by Treize69
Just posting to try and get the system to stop e-mailing me every time someone posts in here, carry on. :mad:
You can turn it off yanno
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Originally posted by Treize69
Just posting to try and get the system to stop e-mailing me every time someone posts in here, carry on. :mad:
The only way to make it stop, Treize, is to go away from the forum. As long as you're logged on the BBS, the system will keep sending you mails every and each time someone post in one of the threads where you posted... basically you're spamming your own mail! ;)
I have that problem too.... 158 BBS mails in the trashcan in 3 days! :D
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Guys, go to the "User CP" at the top of the page and deselect the auto mailing feature in "edit options".
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Just click on 'Unsubscribe' in the email. Easy!
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Originally posted by KAntti and Martyn
Guys, go to the "User CP" at the top of the page and deselect the auto mailing feature in "edit options".
Just click on 'Unsubscribe' in the email. Easy!
Yeah, I know, but I don't want to! I want to know when someone replies to the threads ;) So, I keep spamming my own mail! :D
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It must be Brewster model 239.
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B25!!!!!
It had a great part in world war 2 in the pacific! it would actually be more acurate. WE NEED THE B25 PLZ HEAVEN AND GOD!!!!!!!!
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So the 410 is still i the running.... YES. Was wondering if we will get to see the final vote. You know just to see #'s of people voting for a plane/.
Glenn
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A-26 and He-111
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A-26 and He-111
This thread is over a year old.
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(http://www.crazy-jokes.com/pictures/funny-face.jpg)
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wow
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HE-111 all the way
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pe-2 :D
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whats funny is everyone was saying the B-25 would be a hanger queen, now i see B-25's all over and rarely see the P-39.
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I think a lot of people weren't counting on the pumpkin chucker to be as effective as it turned out to be. In part because I think they were looking at the gun on the B-25G, which wasn't quite as good as the one on the H. It's about the best de-acking tool in the game (can knock out manned and auto field ack before they can return fire) and she's one of the best pure strafers and gunships in the game. Nothing else can single-handedly gun down a hangar the same way the B-25H can. All it took was a couple guys learning where to point that thing to prove she can be as good a tank-buster as anything with a cannon.
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A-26 and He-111
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q37/acfireguy26/necropost4ko1.png)
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A-26 and He-111
People that resurrect dead threads should be kicked in the nuts.
ack-ack
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People that resurrect dead threads should be kicked in the nuts.
ack-ack
And those that voted for P-39 over the Yak 3 should be kicked twice.
<S>...-Gixer
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(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj166/rev920/thread%20bombs/deadthread.jpg)
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And those that voted for P-39 over the Yak 3 should be kicked twice.
<S>...-Gixer
Yup
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And those that voted for P-39 over the Yak 3 should be kicked twice.
<S>...-Gixer
lololol
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Out, Dead thread..Out!
-SR-
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why oh why did the noobs not choose the g55
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why oh why did the noobs not choose the g55
agreed.
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Damn! I saw this thread and almost thought Pyro had given us a SECOND vote! A sECOND chance to get the HE 111 in the game! Damn teasers Damn you all! :cry :cry :cry
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^ Same here :cry
Though I would have been voting for the Yak3
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If I was a betting man I would be putting my money on the Yak3 being the next addition.
We had an American bomber, an American GV, an American fighter, a German GV and now..... that leaves more fighters. :D
Probably Yak 3.... which will be pretty ueber. The G55 should be nice too. :pray
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What newb bumped this old thread?
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(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj166/rev920/thread%20bombs/deadthread.jpg)
troll....
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:huh
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What newb bumped this old thread?
wasnt me :)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWy0NASC-B0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWy0NASC-B0)
Watch from 0:40 on.
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(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q37/acfireguy26/funny/skuzzysignal1.gif)
Lock plx
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWy0NASC-B0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWy0NASC-B0)
Watch from 0:40 on.
Amazing stuff. At risk of prolonging the reanimated-zombie status of this thread, that was by Russian singer/songwriter Vladimir Vysotsky... from the point of view of a Yak. A translation of the lyrics:
I am a fighter plane! My motor sings!
Sky is my home!
But he, who is sitting inside of me,
Thinks that he is a fighter!
In this fight I put down a Junkers plane,
I did to it what I wanted,
And he, who is sitting inside of me,
Already annoyed me to death!
In a past I was shot right through,
And mechanic mended me up,
But he, who is sitting inside of me,
Sends me again in a spin!
Out of me the bombs are falling
And bringing death to enemies base,
But it seems that the tail-plane sings
" Pe-e-e-e-a-a-ce to your home!"
That Messerschmidt plane tailgating me!
I'll leave! I am tired of wounds!
But he, who's sitting inside of me,
Decided to go ram!
What is he doing? We'll blow up!
But I will not burn on a sand!
Going against the rules of speed
I am back, up from the dive!
I'm in a lead now! Where is that plane?
Where is that daredevil? He goes on fire!
He nods and dives, singing at last
"Pe-e-e-e-a-a-ce to your home!".
He, who's sitting inside of my head,
He's left alone and in trouble!
He confuses me and goes into a dive
Straight from the deadly loop!
He speeds up, giving me a double load!
And he thinks he's first class pilot?
I have to listen and to behave,
But this is last time around!
I won't behave again! I swear!
I better lay dead on a ground!
Can't he hear that my pulse got crazy?
My blood-gasoline is too low!
My patience has ended! I can't stand it any more!
Even a machine has the end to tolerance!
But he, who was sitting inside of me,
Suddenly banged his head down!
He's killed! Finally! I fly at ease!
Burning last sparkles of strength,
But what is it? I am in deep dive,
And can't come up anyhow!
How sad! Too late! I did so little!
But let others have their luck.
It seems that at last I also sang
"Pe-e-e-e-e-a-a-ce to your home!".
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(http://www.crazy-jokes.com/pictures/funny-face.jpg)
That's pretty creepy... :uhoh
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A26 all the wat, lets get somthin we can use!!! :rock