Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: morfiend on March 22, 2007, 04:57:49 PM
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:noid
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Copier !!!!!!
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AAaaahh...
Wouldn't it be sweet to have the 50mm variant? The U4 used the 50 mm BK5 cannon with 21 rounds. The BK5 cannon, derived from an anti-tank weapon, allowed the 410s to shoot at their targets from over 1,000 yards...
Juicy...
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For CT and Scenarios, I say "yes" to the Me410...at least its not another jet.
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Why Lobby for a 410 when the He 219 was faster, much better all in all. The He 219 was the chief combatant of the Mossie. After all the 410 was just an update of the 210 which even by LW test pilot standards was unflyable.
Also....the He 219 had up to 4 20mm cannon as well as 4 30mm cannon.
With a top speed OVER the Mosquito and the P38.
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Originally posted by Hajo
Why Lobby for a 410 when the He 219 was faster, much better all in all.
Because the 410 was a day-fighter / destroyer / recon / light night bomber plane, the He 219 was a night fighter exclusively. (The 410 was never a nightfighter)
Also, I would be very sceptical of that amazing speed some books claim for the He 219. While there where certain lighter armed (and very rare, even by 219 standards) variants with uprated engines which were indeed capable of reaching 640 km/h & more, the usual night fighter variants with their high-drag antennas, inreased weight (especially with the belly gun pack including the 30mm cannons) did not even come close to these numbers. The major variant, the 219 A-5 was not faster than 570-580 km/h and reportedly "not overpowered" ;)
And the term "just an update of the 210" is debatable too. Different engines, a lenghted fuselage, new slats removed the catastrophic instabilty problems of the 210.
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Lusche, actually, if you dig up the old 410 thread in aircraft and vehicles, it *was* a night fighter, but did so without the radar installed.
As for the BK 50, you won't see it. Hitech has said he doesn't want folks to sit 2k outside of bomber guns and snipe them off with ease, so he's not adding the BK50 or the TseTse for the Mossie.
There are a plethora of other weapons packages, however. I've been looking forward to its addition to this game for some time!
EDIT: They went back to the drawing boards for the 410. It's not just a "new" 210. The entire wing was redesigned. That redesign made the 410 more than flyable, and fixed the flaws the 210 had.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Lusche, actually, if you dig up the old 410 thread in aircraft and vehicles, it *was* a night fighter, but did so without the radar installed.
This is an old myth, but still untrue. There were a few 410 issued to some nightfighter squadrons, but those weren't used as fighters, but soley for the bombardment of England (mostly Bomber command airfields). They didn't have even night fighter equipment.
Also, some 410 have been falsely identified as having night-fighter radar. But in fact these were recon variants carrying the FuG 200 Hohentwiel radar, which was capable of finding naval targets only.
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There were night fighter 109Gs, 109Es, Hurricanes. There were many F6Fs and F4us that fought at night without any radar whatsoever.
It doesn't take special equipment to fight at night. Just a radio, a stable aircraft, and a good pilot.
Posted by Scherf:
Actually, I'm glad the thread was resurrected, as I now have to retract my earlier statements, since the fellow who runs this site:
http://www.gyges.dk/
recently found an original German document listing KG 51 and its Me 410s in a Wilde Sau Order of Battle.
Details are here:
http://www.gyges.dk/Wilde%20Sau%20Frankrig.htm
So, night-fighters (as opposed to Intruders) after all, though still without radar.
Link to the thread in question (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=163749&perpage=25&highlight=me410%20night%20fighter&pagenumber=4)
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No.
We do not need another ubercannon HO machine in the LW arena.
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410 is a nice looking aircraft....but I've seen more pictures of them crashed on the shores of Europe then in the air scoring kills. Methinks the coolness of it's looks has a lot to do with it's popularity but it's functionality was...well very marginal. At least the 219 has some "uberness" to it. Me 410 just another failed try by the powers that be to turn one aircraft into a jack of all trades aircraft and master of none. The 219 at least was good at what it was designed for....the 410 was designed to be a multifunction aircraft that did nothing particularly well but get shot down. Me 410 was generally outclassed by anything the allies had. (Pony, Spit, Jug , and 38) forgot the mossie also outclassed it by a wide margin.
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Hajo, keep in mind the 410 first flew in December of 1942. It saw a lot of action in 1943. The 210 looks a lot like the 410, and a lot of the "crashed" photos I've seen have been labeled as 210s, which had severe stability problems.
So, the 410 was a 1943 aircraft that had upwards of 4 MG151/20s and 2 MG17s, could reach speeds of almost 390mph, a stone's throw from the later 1944 FW190a8, but it came earlier, with more firepower, and almost just as fast.
It was quite capable in the world of 1943, before P47s, before P51s, before Spits with super boosted engines, tempests, and other speed demons.
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One great thing about flying it, not mentionned yet, is the glass cockpit. It would make lead shots with those guns real easy.
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True. And dive bomb attacks, as well!
It could carry 2x 500kg internal, and 2 more 500kg external (and supposedly in some cases, 2x 1000kg external). That would make it easy to watch your target longer before you drop the bomb on it.
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According to what I have read the He219 not only never reached the manufacturer's claim of 419mph in service, it never even broke 400mph in level flight in service.
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The 410 may be pretty, as twins go, and it may do a lot of things that are useful in the MAs, but it isn't a brewster, and the finns won't shut up until they get a brewster, which means we'll hear "Brewster B239!!!!" in every forum and thread until they get one.
Please, vote Brewster so we can get it over with, and move on to adding the 410 after the P39 and B25 have been successfully introduced.
Thank you very much,
The Committee for P-39 and B-25 Variants.
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I fit very well in this 410 lobby thread so here i am.... lobbying for it.
ME-410 for AH!
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410!
(http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i170/Dablues/300px-Me_410_with_BK50.jpg)
:t
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Me-410 looks better than the P38.
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Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Me-410 looks better than the P38.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/865_1172018676_sapp_kerm.gif)
;)
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I much rather have the Hs-129 rather than the Me-410.
But the 410 will do if we cant't have the 129
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Originally posted by VVV
I much rather have the Hs-129 rather than the Me-410.
But the 410 will do if we cant't have the 129
Ive read that the 129 was underpowered and handled like a brick. I agree that it would be cool to have, but the 410 could do well in both the fighter/buffkiller and jabo role.
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I, member of tha Yak3 and Pe2 lobying clan, admit that the me410 would be nice :D
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Originally posted by Noir
I, member of tha Yak3 and Pe2 lobying clan, admit that the me410 would be nice :D
The Pe2 would be great too :)
(http://bourdeixg.club.fr/galerie/Coet_2002/pe2.jpg)
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Don't be ridiculous. Look how little that plane is.
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The plane's off in the distance, silly! The real magic is the person levitating in the forground!
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Originally posted by Fianna
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/865_1172018676_sapp_kerm.gif)
;)
:p
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Direct qoute from "The Complete Book of World War II Aircraft" (for what its worth):
Although the serious problems that afflicted its direct predecessor had been overcome, the Me.410 never proved to be an outstanding aircraft, and, what is more, it never proved to be superior to the more reliable Bf.110, which it was supposed to replace.
:noid
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Originally posted by Spiked
(for what its worth)
bingo :)
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I believe it had a lot of control problems?
-S
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Messerschmitt was almost shot for the 210 debacle. Very few if any 210s made it to sevice. It was just unflyable. So the pictures of shot down 410s is reality. It looks nice yes...I agree. But it didn't do as well as the Bf110 did. The 110s were scheduled to be phased out, and because of the failures of the 210, and 410 the 110 was kept in production.
Again the 210 and 410 were just another example of the LW trying to create a 3 in 1 aircraft. It did nothing well, even by early 1943 standards.
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Well...
Faster than a 110G...
More streamlined than a 110G...
Better engines than a 110G...
Way more guns allowed than a 110G...
WWAAAAY more bombs/rockets carried than a 110G (4x 1k or 2x 2k and 2x 1k)
I think that means it was better than a 110G, personally.
I would very much love to hunt bombers in this thing!
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I don't think relative performance against contemporaries is always a good guage of how well a plane will do in the MAs, or how useful or desirable it would be.
The fights, the planes encountered, the alititudes at which bomber intereceptions occur, the altitudes of fights in general, the ground aspect of the game... not exactly what I read about in the history books, ya know?
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Originally posted by Krusty
Well...
Faster than a 110G...
More streamlined than a 110G...
Better engines than a 110G...
Way more guns allowed than a 110G...
WWAAAAY more bombs/rockets carried than a 110G (4x 1k or 2x 2k and 2x 1k)
I think that means it was better than a 110G, personally.
I would very much love to hunt bombers in this thing!
Yup!
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Krusty
It might have well been as you described. But History records otherwise methinks.
I have LW guncam footage and very few of the films came from 410s on Buffs. Most of it came from 110s, FW190A8/R8s, and 109s with gunpacks.
Again a beautiful plane aesthetically.....but very poor in performance against the Allies. It was just overmatched by anything that flew against it because it was designed as a do all aircraft. Probably would have been better if it were designed as an interceptor only.
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bump..
:noid :noid :O :O
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:furious :furious :furious to the top I say
bbbbbbbbbuuuuuummmmmmmpppppp!!!!!
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Originally posted by Krusty
Well...
Faster than a 110G...
More streamlined than a 110G...
Better engines than a 110G...
Way more guns allowed than a 110G...
WWAAAAY more bombs/rockets carried than a 110G (4x 1k or 2x 2k and 2x 1k)
I think that means it was better than a 110G, personally.
I would very much love to hunt bombers in this thing!
Use the Fairey Swordfish as an example of how that justification really does not work.
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maybe HTC would consider a plane that no other game (that i know) has ever done.. maybe a he219?,
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Originally posted by Ball
Use the Fairey Swordfish as an example of how that justification really does not work.
Well, I never said it was a better dogfighter than the 110G :aok
In fact, I suspect it will be less manuverable than the way the 110 is modeled in this game. However, I'd still fly it almost every time I log on, if we had it. The 190 doesn't turn as well as the 110G, but it's quite capable at certain things. I think the 410 would be something to contend with, and if not, well at least it's still a kick-arse bomber hunter :)
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Well, it can't turn out worse than our Mossie :lol
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Great, now you jinxed it... :noid
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Since this is the place to ask..
How should the 410 generally compare to our Mossie?
It will be cool if we get a new gun package.. Schrage Musik, or Mk103s, for example, although I don't know if those are as uber as the BK5, which Hitech doesn't want in the MA's gameplay... Maybe as a top tier upgrade in CT..
Did it use R4Ms?
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I'm sure they were tested, as they tested almost everything on this plane, but normally, I don't think so.
It could carry WGr21s, though. I think it could carry them the same as the 110G could, outboard on the wings, and the rotary drum in the bomb bay wasn't used operationaly, as it tested poorly.
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Bring the Me-410 to aces high!
But in order to get it in, we will have to sabotage the Brewster thread!
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52235
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Originally posted by Ball
Bring the Me-410 to aces high!
But in order to get it in, we will have to sabotage the Brewster thread!
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52235
YEAH!!!
Grab teh pitch forks!!!
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vote for an axis ride to help in CT.......:aok :aok :noid
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Hrm.... Mind you I really like the cannons on this bird.
I just don't see it being used in CT. They didn't redo the 110s, they didn't redo the Ta152, and they didn't redo the me262. I think it's going to be limited to the 190/109 for now.
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My 410 vote has been submitted.
i have a feeling that the p39 or 55 will win tho
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agreed Nilsen:aok while the P39 fills many voids and would be a nice addition to the game,the B25 is also a front runner.both have several varients and have been requested many times.On the other hand the G55 and Me410 would fill a huge weak spot in CT,the lack of high alt axis A/C.Oh sure we have the Ta 152 but in testing,any of the P47's will eat it for breakfast......:furious :furious :furious
Sooooo I say........."perk the Val"