Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: rauchen on March 24, 2007, 01:39:28 AM
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I've heard rumors that people fly the 110 as a fighter & do well. All I seem to do is get the NME on my 6 faster than any other plane I fly.
I can't out turn or out run anything. I climb to alt & get one pass at a low e con & then suddenly I'm outta e and his friends are on me like programmers at the buffet table.
I do better in the plywood tiki torch (read Mossie).
Any hints?
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Altitude
110 likes it up HIGH! btw its a great bomber intercepter at 20k.
Don't try to turn with a better fighter, Boom & Zoom or as a friend of mine says.
Shoot & scoot. Turn off the stall limiter if you haven't already.
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Originally posted by rauchen
I've heard rumors that people fly the 110 as a fighter & do well. All I seem to do is get the NME on my 6 faster than any other plane I fly.
I can't out turn or out run anything. I climb to alt & get one pass at a low e con & then suddenly I'm outta e and his friends are on me like programmers at the buffet table.
I do better in the plywood tiki torch (read Mossie).
Any hints?
You need to enlist the services of N7 and Storch. Both are highly skilled at flying the two 110 versions.
- oldman
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Originally posted by Ghosth
Altitude
110 likes it up HIGH! btw its a great bomber intercepter at 20k.
Don't try to turn with a better fighter, Boom & Zoom or as a friend of mine says.
Shoot & scoot. Turn off the stall limiter if you haven't already.
yes, DO NOT lose your E.
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It all comes down to basically the art of cherrypicking.
The 110 is certainly quite a maneuverable plane for its size, but compared to some of its contemporaries, and especially against something like a Spitfire, there's just no victory possible against it unless the pilot of the single-engined adversary is either a nincompoop, or totally underestimates the plane.
Therefore, the secret to success is;
1) fly higher than everyone else
2) use all your friends as bait
3) come down and cherrypick upon chance
4) run as fast as possible if something coalt comes along
That basically applies to all the "inferior planes" the "vets" seemingly employs to great success. Either they fight against nincompoops, or fly it in such a manner which the plane's pure spec is meaningless and only the general situation dictates who gets a pot-shot against the other.
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To a point.
The 110c is better dogfighter.
Bronk
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Beware of the snap!
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I just started flying the 110 this camp and by no means am an expert on it. I agree that it's really in it's element up high (20K+ where it really handles well) and those guns will rip bombers from the sky in seconds but, don't totally discount it as a turn fighter. It's not totally helpless.
I've been in a few turn fights with it so far this camp. One against a Spit XVI while I was using the 110 on an attack mission. I went about 2-3 minutes with the guy while still carrying four 50 lb bombs before he finally got me.
The second was against a P-51D I ran into at 20K while buff hunting. After several turns he realized that the 110 was outperforming him at that alt. He dove for the deck and I flew on.
The other was against a Typhoon piloted by a guy with over 3 K/D. We were near the deck. After several passes with both of us trying to gain position I nailed him at the top of a wingover trying to work back to my six.
I'm sure these guys were as surprised as I was.
I'm not advocating diving into the nearest furball or anything but if you've got some skills then there's no reason to run from a fight either (which you can't anyway).
That said, anytime I see a 110 in anything else I think "easy kill" and I think it's just that mentailty that gave me a slight edge in these encounters.
[EDIT] 50 Kg Bombs.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
It all comes down to basically the art of cherrypicking.
Therefore, the secret to success is;
1) fly higher than everyone else
2) use all your friends as bait
3) come down and cherrypick upon chance
4) run as fast as possible if something coalt comes along
That basically applies to all the "inferior planes" the "vets" seemingly employs to great success. Either they fight against nincompoops, or fly it in such a manner which the plane's pure spec is meaningless and only the general situation dictates who gets a pot-shot against the other.
As a "vet" who regularily flys "inferior planes" to seemingly great success (at times) I take offense to your statement.
Some of the "inferior planes" are not really inferior at all. They may be against some planes but not against others (as all planes in the set are). You really ought to try some of them out. All planes have strengths and weaknesses and, as has often been said, use your strengths to exploit you opponents weaknesses. I'd have to say off-hand that the vets have a better grip on these factors than others, therefore their tendancy to do better in lesser aircraft.
As to flying against "nincompoops", when I meet an opponent in the arena I don't have a clue whether they are a noob or a vet or someting in between. I go into every fight expecting to win regardless what I'm in or what I'm up against. If I don't then I find myself flying around just waiting for the inevitable rather than giving the fight everything I have.
If plane specs are equal I'll always put my money on the vet. If plane specs aren't in the vets favor, I'll still put my money on the vet.
If you actually believe what you wrote above then you're never going to be able to beat anybody in anything in a fair one on one bacause you'll never develop the skills needed to do so.
I hope any noobs reading this thread avoid your "advice".
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A lot of people confuse the gun package with the plane.
As for the case at hand: the guns are great, the plane is rubbish.
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If you actually believe what you wrote above then you're never going to be able to beat anybody in anything in a fair one on one bacause you'll never develop the skills needed to do so.
I've beaten some of them(although admittably this is a rare thing to happen), fought a lot of them upto a standstill without running, had my share of getting my butts kicked, fought against a horde of them in their 'squads', and what not. 10 years is a long time and considering the time I've spent in this game I am unfortunately abysmally mediocre, but one good thing is I've seen how the "vets" actually operate for a long, long, long time.
"Vets" are basically very interesting beings in the world of the flight sims. They are terrific in combat, but they are also egomaniancs. They are opinionated, biased against anything/anyone that is actually better than themselves, are embellishing, exaggerating, loves the grandioso way of explaining their tactics, and hates the bare truth revolving around it.
An "inferior" plane is an "inferior" plane because their own specifications rarely meet certain requirements important for general survival in the combat environment of the MA as a theater of multiple engagements.
The basic tactic of the "vet" in an "inferior plane", is to minimize their chances of having to fight the 'normal/expected' condition of multiple enemies (with or without as much friendlies), and reduce it into a state of 1vs1 engagement so their skills in individual maneuvering can be used to shoot down pilots of lesser skill one by one. If this one-on-one scenario cannot be achieved, then the alternative is to play with alt advantage, in which case their gunnery skills come into light more than actual maneuvering.
But the point is this; they don't actually "fly" the "inferior plane" like they say they do. In other words, in the manner a "vet" can achieve great success with the 110 (the plane in question this thread), any other "inferior" plane can do the same.
The whole blah-blah-blah part of how "using a plane's strengths" is basically a gigantic load of crockshi*, typical embellishment one would expect from the "vet". The only instances where the "vets" actually do use some of its strengths to the max, is when they actually get to fight an inferior pilot 1v1. It doesn't matter if they fly a 110 in the midst of hordes of enemy La7s, or if they fly a P-40 - the basics is always the same. The spirit is the "cherrypick", and the motto is "all my friends are bait".
Ofcourse, that carries with it a certain implications on how the "vets" choose their fighting grounds and promote themselves:
1) None of them appear at a disadvantaged front.
2) None of them try their "fly inferior planes and land two-digit kills" stunt in such fronts.
3) None of them help their countrymates.
4) They are first to dive to an opportunity and also the first to run when things start to go bad.
5) All of them hide the above facts.
Ofcourse, as individual fighter pilots, sticking to the such opportunistic principles is actually not a bad thing. Frankly the very concept of "SA" favors those opportunistic, and the more weasley one behaves, the higher one's score becomes. It's not a bad thing at all.
However, what's really bad is the "vets" don't acknowledge such fact themselves. They act as if all their kills and all their success and all their fame is solely achieved by their own hands, in contrast to reality that they lie, steal, cheat, "extend" forever, goes HOs, cherrypicks, plays only within friendly hordes, uses everyone else as bait, doesn't care about friends, and etc etc etc.. just as much as anyone else.
The only real difference between the "vet" and the "n00b" is that the former displays all of the above mentioned weasle attitudes a lot better/efficiently than the latter, except they pretend they don't. Hence, they are egomaniacs in nature.
I've seen a lot of "famous" vet guys during my long stay with AH, and I've only seen a handful of them who aren't the typical score-whoring weasle type as mentioned above. These are typically the type of guys who has good flying skills, but doesn't necessarily show high scores. Guys who don't hesitate to stay behind and fight and defend fields under attack, despite significant disadvantages. They are also the guys who'll actually come down and actively help clear your six, instead of hanging around 5k above you and cherrypick the guys behind you only when it suits them.
They are all terrific pilots and greayly skilled, much better than I can ever hope to be, and yet they go down in battle as much as I do regardless of what plane they use. This says a lot on how the "vets" actually operate in the MA.
The "vet", is created by the situation of all things, not by their skill. And it is their ability to choose the situation of their liking regardless of any moral/ethical conflicts, that makes them successful. The only problem is they act as if they don't do all the 'dirty', 'n00bish', 'gamey', 'lame' things they so often accuse others of doing, when in fact, they are the best among all people in doing such things.
So you're welcome to be offended all you want. I don't exactly expect a warm welcome from the league of elite pilots when someone goes sniffing behind their smelly rear.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
1) None of them appear at a disadvantaged front.
2) None of them try their "fly inferior planes and land two-digit kills" stunt in such fronts.
3) None of them help their countrymates.
4) They are first to dive to an opportunity and also the first to run when things start to go bad.
5) All of them hide the above facts.
what a load or garbage. you should put your broad brush away.
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As an almost 11 year "vet" of Air Warriors and Aces High I won't deny that, from time to time, I do some of the things you've mentioned nor that I will utilize all of the tools at my disposal to achive my objectives, regardless of what they are that day or that mission.
However, MOST of the time you will find me engaged on the LEAST advantageous front, regardless of whether I'm in a F4F-4, a Hurri I or a Spit XVI. What I find most enjoyable and satisfying in the game is flying into a one on two, three or more, killing my enemys and flying home successfully. I'll fly into a me on 10 or more just for the exhileration and will often get a couple of kills before I'm shot down, and, as previously stated, I don't know who's piloting those planes as I engage.
I DO NOT use my countrymen as unwitting bait although I DO communicate with them to set-up my opponents and I'm often still flying as BAIT for my countrymen AFTER I've run out of ammo.
To suggest that you shouldn't use a planes strengths and exploit an enemy's weaknesses is ludicrous. If I can get a FW190 to turn with me in a FM2 the FW is dead. Period. If I can get a Spit V to try to run from a BF109K4 the Spit is done. I'd think that after 10 years you'de have at least learned the basics.
I'd like to counter-point all of your aeguments but, quite frankly, I can't remember them all because conceptually they are so foriegn to me.
Maybe all of the items outlined in your post describe you but I can assure you that you are in the minority and that's probably why you've never gotten good in 10 years of playing.
If you actually took the time to do the opposite of what you've posted about yourself you might be surprised at how fast the learning curve increases and how FRIENDS communicate with you to help you raise your kill totals.
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Two simple letters to remember: H and O. Sorted.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
10 years is a long time and considering the time I've spent in this game I am unfortunately abysmally mediocre, but one good thing is I've seen how the "vets" actually operate for a long, long, long time.
"Vets" are basically very interesting beings in the world of the flight sims. They are terrific in combat, but they are also egomaniancs. They are opinionated, biased against anything/anyone that is actually better than themselves, are embellishing, exaggerating, loves the grandioso way of explaining their tactics, and hates the bare truth revolving around it.
...er....
Like you, I've been flying these games for about ten years. Maybe just a bit over that.
Like you, I'm still abysmally mediocre. Probably because we don't have the ability to devote the hours, and also because we lack that sense of movement that makes a really great pilot.
However, I think the rest of what you say here is very wrong. Very wrong. The vets usually have a pretty good handle on any plane's qualities, and they are usually pretty accurate when they share their observations.
Just my opinion, of course.
- oldman
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Kweassa,
Your generalizations are not accurate. You are full of it.
Gunner
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Originally posted by Spatula
Two simple letters to remember: H and O. Sorted.
+1
Look for people stupid enough to HO a 110. Use cannons. Have NME exploded before his guns even come to bear.
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The concept of using friendlies as targets -- it is why vets traditionally prefer to fly together. Their colleagues are not offended to be used as targets. The free fighter/engaged fighter concept is well engrained. The focus was on killing as large a quantity of enemy as efficiently as possible. I used to love when I was flying well and could setup squadmates from a position of disadvantage. Basically controlling a fight from below. That is the secret really, why 2 good sticks together is a 1+1=3 situation, it frees you from the mentality that everyone has to create their own shots.
It is a kinder, less sophisticated arena now than 10 years ago, and I can see how this mentality is less palatable.
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I fly the 110 lots.
The KEY to fighting in it is killin' 'em quick.
I have no problem killing most planes in the planeset with a 110.
When you stall fight with it, it bleeds E FAST and will put you in position for a shot 9 times out of 10 if you use that E bleed correctly. I tend to use high yoyo's to bleed E and gain angle on the nme.
In a dogfight with a spit (or niki, or hell most planes) I can generally get a gun solution within' 2-3 turns. After that i'm in trouble. That's the key. Use it's ability to shed E to put yourself in position for a shot. I fly with the 4x20mm 2x30mm setup, so all I need is one shot to win the fight. Once your opponent get's slow as well, you prob. gonna lose the fight if you are not in position, so the key once again is to get in position fast, and use them guns to shred 'em.
My 2 cents.
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Originally posted by rauchen
I've heard rumors that people fly the 110 as a fighter & do well. All I seem to do is get the NME on my 6 faster than any other plane I fly.
I can't out turn or out run anything. I climb to alt & get one pass at a low e con & then suddenly I'm outta e and his friends are on me like programmers at the buffet table.
I do better in the plywood tiki torch (read Mossie).
Any hints?
It's not the 110 is uber, that's hardly the case. In reality and in AH, it's a mediocre fighter at best. If the 110 was such a great airplane, why did it need to be escorted by fighters?
ack-ack
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After 10 years of this I have delusions of mediocre! With many more hours of practice I hope to rise from "Feral" to merely "Dreadful".
I try to BnZ but I think I get a little too cocky & don't extend enough. Also I seem to have a weird habit of losing my countrymates. There's a green cloud all over when I have alt, but when I'm low & slow it's red overcast all of a sudden.
WMLute - you nailed my nightmare - I have terrible aim so I miss that critical first shot & wind up in trouble after 3 turns. Exactly right.
AckAck - Just cuz a plane did poorly in RL doesn't mean it's gotta suck in the MA. I don't have the same restrictions & I can cherry pick. I do well in the F4F to be sure.
Kweassa - Your meds are in. Pick them up & take them immediately if not sooner! Have you ever flown with SHawk? He will gladly clear your six or give you a good drag. He won't sacrifice himself if you decide to go Divine Wind. We are all bait, btw. Some just have more alt.
As for HO. I'm trying to cut back on that bad habit. I discovered that most nme fiters have guns pointing out the front and that's not a good place to be on average.
Look for me as Shmokin on line. I'll be the one smoking....
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Originally posted by rauchen
AckAck - Just cuz a plane did poorly in RL doesn't mean it's gotta suck in the MA. I don't have the same restrictions & I can cherry pick. I do well in the F4F to be sure.
That's because you're engaging from a position with an advantage and has nothing to do with the plane you're flying. Your example can be said of pretty much any fighter in here.
ack-ack
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Ack-Ack - True enuf. :aok