Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BaldEagl on March 24, 2007, 02:07:05 PM
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I was reading a thread in the Help and Training Forum on using the BF110 as a fighter when I came across the following response. I have also posted my reply. I thought others who don't frequent the Help and Training Forum might be interested in commenting on this
quote:
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Originally posted by Kweassa
It all comes down to basically the art of cherrypicking.
........ (edited out)
Therefore, the secret to success is;
1) fly higher than everyone else
2) use all your friends as bait
3) come down and cherrypick upon chance
4) run as fast as possible if something coalt comes along
That basically applies to all the "inferior planes" the "vets" seemingly employs to great success. Either they fight against nincompoops, or fly it in such a manner which the plane's pure spec is meaningless and only the general situation dictates who gets a pot-shot against the other.
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As a "vet" who regularily flys "inferior planes" to seemingly great success (at times) I take offense to your statement.
Some of the "inferior planes" are not really inferior at all. They may be against some planes but not against others (as all planes in the set are). You really ought to try some of them out. All planes have strengths and weaknesses and, as has often been said, use your strengths to exploit you opponents weaknesses. I'd have to say off-hand that the vets have a better grip on these factors than others, therefore their tendancy to do better in lesser aircraft.
As to flying against "nincompoops", when I meet an opponent in the arena I don't have a clue whether they are a noob or a vet or someting in between. I go into every fight expecting to win regardless what I'm in or what I'm up against. If I don't then I find myself flying around just waiting for the inevitable rather than giving the fight everything I have.
If plane specs are equal I'll always put my money on the vet. If plane specs aren't in the vets favor, I'll still put my money on the vet.
If you actually believe what you wrote above then you're never going to be able to beat anybody in anything in a fair one on one bacause you'll never develop the skills needed to do so.
I hope any noobs reading this thread avoid your "advice".
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SkyRock<---owns Vets!
:noid
Seriously though, that advice is a load of crap! :aok
Mark
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I think he produced a valid point while I do quite enjoy flying the Hurri 1 and maybe a D3A or TBM every so often, Kweassa hit the nail on the head with how to fly with success in this game (something I still can't do after 3 or 4 years). It all depends on what you find fun. If you like to sit up high then cherry pick then more power to you. If you like to fly a plane with 8 .303s and try and get a kill or two on the deck, go for it.
The Hurricane is a mean brute down low against people who try to turn with it, especially if your convergence is correct. That being said it's still a very early war plane and flying against what the LW usually is then it is an absolute deadly, inferior plane. Don't take offense to "inferior" now they just think your plane sucks and is always an easy kill.:t
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When it comes to flying inferior planes, and how vets do well in them, Kweassa is probably the last person to seek advice from.
Anyone who does well in an inferior plane (disregarding the vultures, pickers, and hordemonkeys) is likely flying their particular ride to it's strengths, the opponents they kill are not, and/or they have decent gunnery skills. You do not need to fly timidly in order to do well, unless surviving is what you consider to be "success", even if it means you do no killing.
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I've landed more kills in a Spit1 and Ki61 (in the LWA) and always laugh when "a privileged few attempt to preach". Some just need the attention, a shame Kweassa went off of the deep end in life.
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IMNSHO
If certain people flew as much as they come and post multi paragraph whines about.
1. how and what other people fly.
2. flight models
3. damage model
4. unfounded US aircraft bias
5. How Il2 does it
6. Gunnery model
7. Arena split
Ect.. ect...ect...
They'd make levi look like a 2 weeker.
;) :D
Bronk
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<--- Proud as punch to be a NINCOMPOOP :D
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Kill em faster than they kill you.
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some people are in denial....
kweassa actually is right in many ways...
many of the top fiter squads/top pilots fly exactly the same way he describes...and there is nothing wrong with it...
for many of the "studs" (especially p-51/p47/f4/p-38 pilots) not to acknowledge that they can generally be found with alt and wingmen and NOT in the middle of a furball but often on the periphery closer to their base is silly...how do i know this..because i often "hunt" them...i find it to be fun and a good way to sharpen my skills...but im not gonna get them by upping a field and trying to get an even match with them.
yes yes..i know skyrock and hub like to furball...they do and they do a nice job but they dont have the l33t status that others occupy and they dont rank high in scores...there is nothing wrong with that style of flying either...
and yes i know blukitty and a select few really do have success with low alt/slow flying...and hats off to them as well!!! but even kitty stays off to the side and doesnt live in the center of the furball with guys getting all angle shots on him (yes its a him)...he chooses more 1v1 situations where his skill can dominate
BUT most of the high score/high k/d pilots fly EXACTLY as kweassa describes...and once again..it is their $15 and i applaud ALL styles of flying...
but lets not beat up kweassa for daring to fess up as to what the secret is to many pilot's success...the man speaks the truth:aok
hope i didnt offend anyone i named here because that was not my intent
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Falc not to be confrontational.
But that coming from the CO of one of the largest/multi wing squads...
Well you know.... pot vs kettle comes to mind.
:confused:
Bronk
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hmm i rack up many kills and i rarely run from a fight.. i enter them at around 5-7k so thats hardly being an alt monkey and i mainly do it flying 190a8s, f4u1c's, and p47d40s.. only 1 i'd say is inferior..
kweasa is just a hateful noob :) dont listen to him :aok
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I also think kweassa has a point as others do. Everyone has a flight style in different planes. The mere fact that many have different views on how a particular plane should be flown shows that we are a diverse community. No one really cares to be picked while fighting, vulched while taking off, etc.., but that doesn't mean that the person picking, vulching, etc.. is wrong. The beauty of the game is that you can grab a nice new shiny plane when you die. In reality, no one really cares to lose a fight. The better you are at accepting defeat at times, the less whining everyone would have to listen to on 200. I personally think that the idealists need to relax a bit and fly in an arena where they can fight the style of fights that they want and then there would be no dissappointment for them. Otherwise, hush up and die with some dignity.
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Thats not bad advice for staying alive.
It gets the enemy killed, it keeps them from killing you and those around you.
Keeping your energy and not letting yourself get sucked into a low speed contest is how you are effective in a furball. Trying to seek single combat with friendlies and enemies all around you is a bit of a daft idea. It applies even more with less capable aircraft. Otherwise just keep upping N1Ks and Spits and all the other turn and HO furball machines and keep going through planes like a 12 year old goes through tissue paper.
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"2) use all your friends as bait"
I hope he's on your side.
Remember... this advice is being given in the Help and Training Forum frequented by noobs.
While I don't disagree that his statements will keep you alive and even get you a few kills I do believe that if this is your only strategy you're doing yourself a dis-service in development of your acm skills.
I also don't believe that most vets fly like a weenie, even in disadvantaged aircraft. I know that, for the most part, I don't.
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I try to keep a high K/D, but I do it flying my plane's (F4U) strengths based on the situation. If it's 1v1 I'm not afraid to get slow, but if it's a large multi-plane furball I'm high and fast because getting low and slow in an F4U with 30+ cons around, half of them red, is asking to get shot down. Likewise, I won't enter a 4 vs Me co-alt or co-E if I can avoid it.
I don't use guys as bait (unless THEY intend to set me up for a shot) but I'm always on the lookout for a green plane with an enemy (or four. And yes, I WILL roll in to at least scare off a line of 6 bad guys trailing one friendly) in tow. First, fixated enemies make nicer targets and if you're in the conga line and let your SA go just for the chance to spray the most lead into the gangee you DESERVE to get picked. Second, it's just plain tactically sound to keep more of YOUR guys in the air than there are RED guys.
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cherrypicking is the art of being the smarter pilot, yeh like turnfighting a zero in a 190 is considerd "noobish"
well some guys seem to think there is somthing wrong with escaping a bad situation, or picking on a guy because he has low E...I dont really care if you think its substanderd flying, because chances are....your ded........:aok
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
"2) use all your friends as bait"
I hope he's on your side.
Remember... this advice is being given in the Help and Training Forum frequented by noobs.
While I don't disagree that his statements will keep you alive and even get you a few kills I do believe that if this is your only strategy you're doing yourself a dis-service in development of your acm skills.
I also don't believe that most vets fly like a weenie, even in disadvantaged aircraft. I know that, for the most part, I don't.
Using your friends as bait - perhaps the wording is much for some people, but its pretty standard tactic, keep the guy fixated on one while the other swoops in and knocks it down. Now if hes not calling peoples 6 just for the oppurtunity, then hes salamander, otherwise thats how flying should be done.
What do you mean by flying like a weenie? Red all around and dropping flaps to get a shot on a single guy, blowing all your E and leaving yourself as meat on the table for the 5 Spits and N1Ks within 3.0,,,,is this flying with "balls"?
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2) Use all of your friends as bait and soon enough youll have no friends.
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Originally posted by stephen
cherrypicking is the art of being the smarter pilot,
Bzzzzzzzt wrong.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Falc not to be confrontational.
But that coming from the CO of one of the largest/multi wing squads...
Well you know.... pot vs kettle comes to mind.
:confused:
Bronk
i dont think you are being confrontational bud...
i know i dont do that but i dont know how others in my squad specifically fly...im more of a loner when i hunt......im an organizer and a mission leader.....BUT im not a good wingman...or at least i havent found someone who flies enough like i do...
and how i/we think we fly is not often how we are percieved...
i tend to think i am the other side of the equation (which takes a lot of criticism as well)...i tend to fly low, fast planes that others consider uber (la7/spit16/la5)...i do this because i think i'm basically ADHD and dont have the patience or discipline to grab or maintain alt...so its NOT because im great or noble....i just like quick fights...ill fly the early war planes but only when the furball is right off the base...takes too long to get to a fight and rtb otherwise....
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lets all try this: find what works for you, and to he** with every ones oppinion on how to do it. if my style matches yours, then fine, if not, fine. as far as how i fight, given time to get the alt id prefere a mid-high lvl fight with room to move, but im not afraid to drag you into the dirt or into a hangar if i have to. but, like i started out: find your best strategy, use it. find your best bird/gv and use it. with that said: lets all shut up and up something and kill each other. :)
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but lets not beat up kweassa for daring to fess up as to what the secret is to many pilot's success...the man speaks the truth
It's not the whole truth ... I never like it when some paint with a broad brush.
I take my FM2 into anything at any alt ... and I think I do a fairly well in it.
Phear the "MildCat" !!! :t
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Originally posted by quintv
Using your friends as bait - perhaps the wording is much for some people, but its pretty standard tactic, keep the guy fixated on one while the other swoops in and knocks it down. Now if hes not calling peoples 6 just for the oppurtunity, then hes salamander, otherwise thats how flying should be done.
Then maybe drag and bait would have been better wording. It didn't come off that way though.
And yes, if drag and bait is what he meant then it's a very good tactic. One I and my squad-mates use regularily.
What do you mean by flying like a weenie? Red all around and dropping flaps to get a shot on a single guy, blowing all your E and leaving yourself as meat on the table for the 5 Spits and N1Ks within 3.0,,,,is this flying with "balls"?
"Whenever you see a con at co-alt run" Not the exact quote but close enough. Sounds like weenie flying to me.
At this point I'll add that in SOME situations or in certain planes his comments are valid, but he generalizes it to make it seem as though it's the only smart thing to do in any circumstance and that all vets use these tactics when in inferior planes.
I like to keep a moderate K/S and K/D up, but only to a degree.
I delight in diving into a me on many (again, depending on what I'm flying but this also includes many "inferior aircraft"). I've come out of more me on threes successfully than I can remember and a few me on fours. I'll dive into a me on 10+ just for the pure adrenaline rush knowing I won't get out but if I stay alive for a while and get a couple of kills along the way then I know that I can likely exit the next me on two or three successfully. It's a great way to develop and maintain your ACM and SA skills and it can be a lot of fun.
I find no greater pleasure or satisfaction in the game than dispatching 2-3 enemys in a one on two or three and when I do exit one of these my heart is usually pounding and I'm shaking like a leaf.
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Originally posted by KingSix
but im not afraid to drag you into the dirt or into a hangar if i have to.
but, I bet you afraid to come out from behind them shades ya wearing
Originally posted by FALCONWING
and how i/we think we fly is not often how we are percieved...
this is a very good assessment that we all should consider
SkyRock<---owns Dreaming that he owns!
:D
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
some people are in denial....
yes yes..i know skyrock like to furball... do a nice job but dont have the l33t status that others occupy and dont rank high in scores...there is nothing wrong with that style of flying either..
:rofl I am the l333test of them all, brother! I own! I am ranked in the top ten in fighters and I fly on the deck and fight multiples! I know of noone in the game can beat me 6 out of 10 times in duels and I mean noone! (If you don't "DA" then don't respond to this!) I wouldn't talk this kind of talk unless I had been in the trenches and proven it! It is a fact that I am l33t!!!!!!!:aok
:noid
PS: this fact can only be proven if I am sober! :D
Mark
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Originally posted by TequilaChaser
but, I bet you afraid to come out from behind them shades ya wearing
rofl man, im not afraid to charge head long into anything, the consequences be dam*ed. death or life, from where i sit if i screw your bird up bad enough where you cant make it back to base or finish your objective then all the better. what shades do you speak of? the rose colored glasses of ignorance mabey? id just as soon charge a large formation of 17's or chase a 262 with a pony. if i think i can even get a single shot off im going for it.
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Originally posted by KingSix
what shades do you speak of?
is a jab at you not being a valid gameid is all.....( online anyways )
and only 5 posts ( 2 of em in this thread no less )
so, what is your gameid? ah nevermind...already figured it out
lemming :D
hmm, need to edit that gameid lemingJR
since you just became a member of the BBS today ;)
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actually, my game id, if you MUST know is King06 tyvm. i just figured id change the 06 to a written Six for the BBS.
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See Rule #7
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See Rule #7
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a personal opinion from someone who occaionally pushes the boundaries of the board tolerances but the pic is a tad over the top imho.
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Originally posted by KingSix
actually, my game id, if you MUST know is King06 tyvm. i just figured id change the 06 to a written Six for the BBS.
King06, notice the BIG Grin and the wink emoticons...don't take these boards to serious...........
and most will always include their gameid below their posts....
is all good :) cya up in the virtual AH skies
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
many of the top fiter squads/top pilots fly exactly the same way he describes...and there is nothing wrong with it...
for many of the "studs" (especially p-51/p47/f4/p-38 pilots) not to acknowledge that they can generally be found with alt and wingmen and NOT in the middle of a furball but often on the periphery closer to their base is silly...how do i know this..because i often "hunt" them...i find it to be fun and a good way to sharpen my skills...but im not gonna get them by upping a field and trying to get an even match with them.
And this illustrates the differences in what people mean when they say "being successful". Those are very capable planes, and they are definitely flown to their strengths. However, and this is just me, I don't consider a high K/D at 2 kills per hour to be a good pilot. The guys that impress me are the ones who can turn a 3 on 1 where they are at a disadvantage into a 3 kill run in the space of a few minutes.
Like you, I lack the patience to hang around at alt just waiting for a situation where there is no appreciable threat to my little plane. I head straight for the most red guys, and I try to kill them as quickly as possible. The guys who I was always most impressed by are the Levis, Drexes, Morphs, Stangs, etc who could just slap everyone around without needing 5 wingmen waiting above to ensure that no one got an upperhand on them.
That is what I consider being successful in an inferior plane. No offense to those who do like to hang around watching paint dry in their D model or P38 or whatever, I just don't think those are the guys I would identify as doing well in lesser planes.
Anyway, that's just how I look at it. I'm not what I consider a good pilot. I like to think I'm improving, but my judgements and prioritizing of targets is a little lacking. I play for the action, and charging the horde, killing 3 or 4, getting killed alot, and making it out occasionally is how I have fun. This obviously doesn't work for everyone, but it's what I enjoy. I do a little bit of everything, and I even engage in some timid picking and running away, but I get bored quickly, and chasing (or being chased) 2 sectors is a zzzzzfest for me.
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My 2 Cents...Enjoy...
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=193895
Tips To Being Successful In Complex Engagements
In light of the new set-up in LW Orange I thought it would be nice to repost my tips on how to enjoy success in large engagements here in the Help Forum and invite other long-time vets to post on this topic as well. Hopefully this will help newer players and players new to fightering not feel so much like a flying scooby snack when fighting in large, protracted engagements...
Successfully negotiating a complex engagement is pure joy for me. It is what 'floats my boat'. The process itself is half instinct and half systematic pre-meditation.
There are a few key components:
1) Patience-On each shot and when picking your prey.
2) Discretion- Know when to cut n' run and when to go balls to the wall.
3) Flexibilty-Take in everything, targets of opportunity abound, adapt to your surroundings and the evolving combat situation.
4) SA-The more you can keep track of while engaged the better, friendly and enemy. Have a general idea of relative E states of as many cons as you can, predict and visualize their probable locations and vectors while not actually looking at them, really good SA is almost like clairvoyant ESP in this regard.
5) Gunnery- Hit hard and fast, killing quickly is a factor of gunnery, bad gunnery means slow kills. If you kill slowly your're going to get saddled, cherry picked and gang-banged no matter how good of a pilot your are.
I see alot of mistakes repeated over and over that cause otherwise skilled players fail to be sucessful in complex engagements, here are some of them:
1) Blow all of their E/options on the first con they come across.
2) Over-commit to one enemy, a furball is full of targets, don't put all of your eggs in one basket, your goal is to kill as many as you can and live...
3) Falling for what I call the 'suck-drag', the 'suck-drag' can be the horizontal or vertical version. In either version you are allowing the enemy to pull you to friends and/or blow too much E. Remember the runner actually has the initiative over the chaser, he is determining when/if/how/where you will be forced to fight.
4) Poor gunnery is death assured for the furballer, in a complex engagement if you cannot kill quickly you're going to get saddled, cherry picked and gang banged ALOT.
There are a few routines and practices that will guarentee some success:
1) Before Engaging always have an exit strategy and save the E to execute it if need be.
2) Don't get 'married' to one con, stay flexible and take out targets of opportunity as the chances arise even if it means letting a fish off the hook.
3) After blowing some E for a kill don't flush the rest down the toilet in an un-educated frenzy. Re-gain some of the lost E if you are under no immeditate threat, re-assess the situation and the ebb n' flow of the battle, get your SA back up then re-engage on your terms.
4) If you are in an E fighter give preference to enemy faster than you. If in a TnB plane give preference to enemy that can out-turn you while your E state is still high. This will enhance your survivability in your local fight area.
5) Be aware of friendlies around you, have some knowledge of what they tend to do. Just because they have a friendly icon doesn't mean they can be counted on to do the most predictable/desireable thing. For example, some players are always heavy and will never engage until they get their ord to target. Some players blow all of their E at the drop of a hat to swirl around on the deck in a death spiral with 5 enemy until they inevitably get shot down. Some friends are great for pulling enemy out of the pack vertically (roping) or horizonally (dragging). Knowing all of this will help you survive and cull the herd of enemy planes at minimal risk.
I hope this helps...
Zazen
__________________
--- Army of Muppets ---
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Enjoy This Too...
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=167443
The Art of the Set-up
One thing that I've noticed thoughout the years is people tend to approach a fight with a stubborn single-mindedness. This is not necessarily a bad thing in a restricted engagement. But, in a complex multi-plane engagement, where flexiblilty and adapatability is key, it can be a serious hindrance and a potential source of great frustration. In a complex engagement, unlike a 1 vs 1, even when engaged you must maintain a 'reserve' of SA for your immediate surroundings, you must be vigilant and aware of what all the other planes in your immediate vicinity are doing, friend and foe alike. If need be you must be willing to disengage your current target and engage another target of opportunity. In situations where you yourself are engaged while pre-occupied you must know how to help others help you. This is what I will discuss here, the set-up, or how to help others help you, in other words wingman tactics and teamwork. I write this especially for the newer players, or for those new to fightering. Good set-ups will use those flying near you who are much more experienced than you to help you live longer, which in turn allows you to enjoy more proctracted fights and learn alot more quickly.
For the set-up to work there are some basic requirements. I will list them briefly here:
1) You must have the SA to be aware of the bandit before it's too late.
2) You must have at your disposal friendlies who have the SA to recognize a set-up.
3) Those friendlies must be opportunistic enough to take advantage of that knowledge.
4) Your set-up of the bandit must be done subtley so as to conceal the fact from the bandit that he is being set-up at all.
5) You must have the tactical awareness to know what to do in different situations, some set-ups only work in certain circumstances.
Here are the three most common set-ups and how to properly execute and exploit them. A big part of setting bandits up for teammates is communication, don't just assume everyone is on the same page as you, talk to them and tell them what page to be on.
The Drag 'N Bag
This is the most common set-up. The key to this is twofold.
1) Keep the bandit interested, think like the bandit. A bandit that does not have a sizeable speed advantage will not likely chase you for long. It is your job to make yourself an enticing fruit just beyond his reach. What a bandit is hoping for is for you to break, so wiggle, make it look as though you could be about to break at any moment, don't let your fish off the hook.
2) When you have a friendly coming to bag your drag, do not do anything sudden, but do something to keep the bandit more interested in his forward view than checking his 6, wiggle, pull up a tad to slow him down, just do not drastically change your heading. The reason is the friendly is likely holding alot of E and will not be able to maintain lead for a shot without chopping alot of E.
Hanging 'Em High
This set-up is quite similiar to the drag but is more specialized in its application and implies use of the vertical. This is probably the most beautiful set-up for your wingmen, if done correctly it's almost impossible to miss. Think of this set-up as a rope, but for someone else. There are some considerations for this method as follows:
1) The first key to this move is E. You must have the E to keep just out of arms reach, but like the rope, E states have to be close enough the bandit feels he has a chance, especially if you were to loop over the top. Pull him up very gradually at first, steepening your climb gradually until you are vertical. With gravity fighting against him he will be a very unstable gunnery platform even if he does have the range for a shot at the top.
2) The 2nd key to this move is timing. If E states are relatively equal between you and the bandit you must be reasonably confident your friendly will pick your fruit as it dangles on the branch before the bandit gets close enough for a shot. This is where communication comes in. Again, like the drag it is important to keep yourself attractive to look at, especially as your friendly is coming in for the kill, wiggle a bit or act like you are going to loop over the top to keep the bandit from checking his 6.
The Suck-Drag
This technique is very usefull against alt monkeys. Everyone has been in this situation, you have a con above you and some friendlies who is looking to BnZ. The key to getting this fellow is the suck-drag. An alt monkey BnZer has two vulnerabilities, excessive speed and only being able to attack one at a time. As you are sucking his E away from him your friendlies are jockeying into position to turn the tables on him as his relative E advantage degrades.
1) A high Alt BnZer operating without a wingman can only attack one person at a time. This provides an opportunity to degrade his relative E advantage without actually engaging him per se. Again, think like the bandit, what does he want to see? What will make him most likely to over-commit his E? I'll tell you what...an unaware opponent. So, give him what he wants, pretend you are unaware of him, but do it in a crafty way. The second you realize he may dive on you , start a very shallow dive, build-up E, forcing him to lose alot more alt than he thinks with his pass, he will be diving so fast he will not notice the difference. Don't dive steeply enough he can tell by aspect of your plane what you are doing. Just sit there until the last possible second, then chop throttle and break (never break straight up). Repeat this as necessary, every pass he makes on someone the others are closing the E gap as the bandit wastes his E in high speed power dives. This works best on bandits attacking from at or near the pure vertical.
2) Control compression from excessive dive-speed is enemy #1 for the BnZer. What is a lazy turn for a plane going 300, is an impossible black-out turn for a plane going 500. Use this against the BnZer to suck his energy advantage away. This works best on bandits not attacking from the pure vertical. In this suck-drag do not build up speed, keep in level flight or even a shallow climb, maintaining your best corner speed is most important. As soon as the bandit starts his pass, start turning, very gradually at first, tightening up as he gets closer and faster. One of these four things will happen:
a) He blacks-out trying to follow you without chopping throttle.
b) He compresses totally and either lawn darts or blows a HUGE amount of E before he recovers from control compression.
c) He aggressively chops throttle for the shot, but likely will not be able to match your turn, this burns ALOT of his E, you may even be in a position for a shot when he overshoots.
d) He aborts his attack at some point, burning some E.
The key to these moves is to make yourself attractive to fixate upon. The more fixated the bandit is on you the less he is checking his 6. The other keys are communicating with and being predictable to your friendlies. Don't do anything unexpected, if you must break hard, annouce your intentions so your friendly can be ready. For example: "Breaking Left 90 degrees!". If you are dragging a bandit within guns range, do not drastically change your heading with unpredictable panic moves, never vary your heading more than 45 degrees, by doing this you give friendlies dumping E with alt a chance to come clear you. Like the BnZer a friendly diving down to clear you cannot turn with a slow moving bandit for a shot.
Anyways I hope this helps. Anyone else feel free to add your favorite set-up moves. Happy Hunting!
Zazen
__________________
--- Army of Muppets ---
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See Rules #4, #5, #7
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See Rules #4, #5, #7.
ROFLMAO!!!! :rofl
(I do not appreciate you quoting that)
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King, that's not Jaxxo's boast. No point in the rest, just having a bad day. No offense, everyone go back to doing whatever.
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See Rules #4, #5, #7
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
(keep in mind that comes from a School teacher,
hubsonfire, Et Tu??????????????:cry
Like school teaching is al I know how to do! :t nice attempt at a character assasination and overall ignorant generalization! I am certain you succeded in the latter, though!
:aok
Mark
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See Rules #4, #5
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The word is "inbred", and after a particularly frustrating repair call, I was in a bad mood and took offense at your attack upon Jaxxo, who was merely poking fun at the person who originally made the boast.
If you took offense at being treated in the same fashion that you treat others, well, get used to that around here. Good day.
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Please go read Kweassa's second post further down this thread:
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201617
Here's a small excerpt regarding vets:
Originally posted by Kweassa
1) None of them appear at a disadvantaged front.
2) None of them try their "fly inferior planes and land two-digit kills" stunt in such fronts.
3) None of them help their countrymates.
4) They are first to dive to an opportunity and also the first to run when things start to go bad.
5) All of them hide the above facts.
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As long as Skyrock doesn't teach spelling, I'd be willing to believe he is a teacher.
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Kweassa just likes to type, whether he has anything to say or not.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
:rofl :lol :rofl Funny! But then again you have gotten upset at my arrogance before! :rolleyes:
Mark:t
You're arrogant?:huh
:D
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its calleed a sticky EE key and a lack of hitting the backspace key
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He said sticky...
I think Kweassa pushed himself off the high dive on that post, Eagl. I know plenty of vets willing to help a fellow countryman, I know of many who fly headlong into 5 bandits alone and do so when they have no chance of running away. He's trolling or something of that nature.
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Anyone who takes this game seriously enough to think that any of what we do here matters, needs to take a long hard look at their priorities.
As for being a vet, I would guess I'd qualify and any of the folks who've seen me fly (for lack of a better word) know that I can be found diving into the pack or more often then not getting bounced by the higher baduns cause frankly I could care less about stats, perks or whatever. I like the fight, and to see how long I can make my uber 38G last among the baduns. Of course that's generally not too long, but it's a blast for me and the guys I fly with.
To generalize about any group of players in this game is silly cause you'll find all kinds here including within the vets.
I am encouraged though that there are so many folks who do understand that this is nothing more then a game and play it as such:aok
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Replace "vets" with "LOOK AT MEH IM AN ATTENTION AND SCORE potato!".
Then his post makes more sense.
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I think Kweassa pushed himself off the high dive on that post, Eagl. I know plenty of vets willing to help a fellow countryman, I know of many who fly headlong into 5 bandits alone and do so when they have no chance of running away. He's trolling or something of that nature.
Gimme a break, nirv.
Anybody who's flown with me knows I'm the guy who stays behind in all the worst-case scenarios. Upping from vulched fields, fighting against 10 to 1 odds, upping goonbusters amidst zillion red-hordes, lobbing ords against barracks to delay enemy advance, etc etc etc ad nauseaum.
I'm not complaining about it, since a "normal" fight under those conditions is mostly out of the question, and a high death rate and a conga line of the incoming "red train" behind my rear just comes with the job description. I like ruining the day for pompous hordemongers. It's the way I have fun.
However, one thing I've learned in being in the worst places one can fly in, during my masochistic career as a "last line of defense" pilot, is that the self-styled "vets" never, ever, venture out to these parts to offer any kind of helping hand. More than anywhere on this corner of the map, where their skill is needed, where it is a "target rich" environment which they profess to love so much - not a single "vet" shows. The only people who actually show up in these "target rich" parts are either the total n00b, the psychopath, or the knee-jerk patriot who'll do anything he can to stop enemy advance.
In turn, I get to meet all the famous "vet" guys of other countries during my sorties. It's simple really - like the self styled "vets" of my own country, who is having a great day collecting a baggage train of baby seal carcasses flying with the our own "horde" against sparsely defended enemy fields, the enemy "vets" are also the first ones to enter my "target rich" world. It is only natural they show up wherever I go, since I'm always at the places where we're doing the worst.
But even then, it is always the enemy runts and "expendable" average joes who do all the work, picking off acks, hunting down few defenders, destroying objects, etc etc.. and when those runts are being challenged by me and my fellow pilots, turning into a heap of fireball and aerial junk, only then the "vet" actually comes down from the stratosphere, collects all the cheap kills, and turns back merrily home and lands them - leaving all the average guys behind to die to the defenses.
Again, I'm not complaining about the situation I meet, since I'm always there by my own choice. However, what I do find absurd is those self-styled "vet" weasles who is typical in taking the credit, thumping the chests, professes to be "skilled" enough to face many enemy planes, and yet in practice he rarely, if ever, shows up under those conditions to haul some prettythang.
The resentment applies both to the "vets" of my own country, who never show up in all the "best" parts of the map, and to the "vets" of my enemy countries, who are the first to enter the vulch, and first to run away when things go bad.
I mean, have you actually never wondered why all the most "famous" pilots of each countries rarely ever fight each other? They are typical in saluting each other, chatting around alot in 200, except when you think about it, the "vets" never, ever seem to actually gather around a single point of the map and show us the most extravagant aerial fights of the day. These "vets" rarely fight against each other.
The reason is simple. All of them "vets" are in different fronts of the map. All of them are located at the easiest situation possible for one's own country. Since the dynamics of the MA horde dictate that one horde avoids the other, it is only natural to expect that the "vet vs vet" fights are a rare thing to happen in the MA.
They're the scavengers of the MA. Nothing wrong with that. They're just good at it. However, they will never admit what they are. Since they're supposed to be "driven by thrill of combat and competition of skill". This heap of bullshi* has been so thoroughly propagated in the flightsim communities, that it has become a something of a permanently embedded myth.
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Might want to redefine what you see a Vet is then Kweassa, cause I know lots of guys I'd classify as vets who do exactly what you describe yourself as doing.
Your painting an entire group of players with such a broad brush seems a bit unreasonable.
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Kweassa is describing what I like to call the timid score weenie. I won't comment on his own actions (or his outlandish claims regarding his own behavior), because I've never seen him anywhere near a fight.
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MY GOD i thought this post would have been pwnd by skuzzy a long time ago. ow ya IN
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Might want to redefine what you see a Vet is then Kweassa, cause I know lots of guys I'd classify as vets who do exactly what you describe yourself as doing.
Your painting an entire group of players with such a broad brush seems a bit unreasonable.
I agree, Just what I was thinking about...
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Might want to redefine what you see a Vet is then Kweassa, cause I know lots of guys I'd classify as vets who do exactly what you describe yourself as doing.
Your painting an entire group of players with such a broad brush seems a bit unreasonable.
Let's just say it applies to some of the more 'vocal' types of some variants of vets around the world. I admit the "vet" is not composed of a single spectrum, and I won't deny there are actually some they do behave in the manner you described. Therefore, if your objection states my use of the "term" vet should be more restricted towards the some of the more tardly hypocrites in the game, then I humbly profess, "Woops, me bad".
However, very simply put, of all those pompous fools who so regularly starts broadcasting about "ACM" gibberish and "LOL @ n00b" type of responses in these many threads on the boards, or in channel200 in the MA, I have found none of them who don't do the very stuff they choose to laugh at. HOs, running, gangbanging, scorewhoring - you name it.
I won't comment on his own actions (or his outlandish claims regarding his own behavior), because I've never seen him anywhere near a fight.
That's because the rare moments I'm online these days, I'm so busy getting shot down in the darkest corners of the world, that my own burnt carcass piled up would be higher than the Himalayas. Look for the lone 109 or a Ki-84 in the baddest situation possible and then you'd find me, for about a minute and half, until I get shot down and can't get up again because of the gaggles of laser-guided bomber tards shutting my airfield down.
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it's sop tempting to jump in here about "vets" but.... i think we need to let kweassa rest his fingers.
:aok
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Originally posted by Shane
i think we need to let kweassa rest his fingers.
:aok
(http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/Assets/tirelessrebutter.jpg)
:D
Bronk
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I try to stay alive and have done so ever since AW.
Enter a furball from above with E and fight off the high cherry pickers first, maybe run down an FW or Stang then gather up a bunch of E and enter the furball just above the action and if the area is clear of higher pickers then dive into the furball and twist and turn with the rest but make your exit before the e-fighters and hi alt pickers return from your previous spanking.
This is pure fun for me, if someone want's to call me something that's no more than a immature schoolyard taunt, so be it, I'll still have that s*** eating grin on my mug because I'm having FUN!
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Originally posted by Kweassa
I mean, have you actually never wondered why all the most "famous" pilots of each countries rarely ever fight each other? They are typical in saluting each other, chatting around alot in 200, except when you think about it, the "vets" never, ever seem to actually gather around a single point of the map and show us the most extravagant aerial fights of the day. These "vets" rarely fight against each other.
The reason is simple. All of them "vets" are in different fronts of the map. All of them are located at the easiest situation possible for one's own country. Since the dynamics of the MA horde dictate that one horde avoids the other, it is only natural to expect that the "vet vs vet" fights are a rare thing to happen in the MA.
They're the scavengers of the MA. Nothing wrong with that. They're just good at it. However, they will never admit what they are. Since they're supposed to be "driven by thrill of combat and competition of skill". This heap of bullshi* has been so thoroughly propagated in the flightsim communities, that it has become a something of a permanently embedded myth.
Kweassa, the best pilots in this game square-off against each other all the time in the DA, TA, Koth and dueling ladder. How do you think these guys got this good? Competition breeds champions. There's not much competition in the MAs. Hell, I can't get half the guys I encounter to fight!
If you are referring to high-scoring MA pilots exclusively, then I can agree to some extent. Many of these guys don't fare real well in 1v1 duels. Indeed, the 1v1 specialists will gobble them up in short order. However, given the MA environment, they do well.
Those who aspire to be the best in the MA have to learn to fight and win against long odds. We have several squads that come to the TA for squad training. There's no better way to work on SA and multi-con skills than volunteering to be their rabbit, fighting the whole mob.
There's nothing I like to do more than duel with the game's best pilots. Nothing builds skills faster than a high level of competition. When I'm in the MAs (not very often), I usually take a clunker rather than a high performance fighter. Anyone can get kills in the La-7 or Spit8, but how long would they survive in a Boston or tangling with a mob of La-7s and Spits in P-47.
A few nights ago, Skyrock and I dueled for hours in the TA. Bostons, A-20s, F6Fs and F4U-1s. We had a great time, despite both of us having not slept in nearly 24 hours. By the way guys, Skyrock is a great fellow and a damn good pilot. Get to know him and you'll appreciate his banter as good natured fun. I found him to be a perfect gentleman.
My regards,
Widewing
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Since we are throwing compliments........Widewing is the best I've ever fought at the luftberry! Nice gentleman and very good stick!:aok
Mark
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One thing about Skyrock that everyone should know, do NOT try to clear his six if he has less then six cons on him, he is simply setting them up. He considers you clearing his six as stealing his kills.
I am NOT joking.
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By the way guys, Skyrock is a great fellow and a damn good pilot. Get to know him and you'll appreciate his banter as good natured fun. I found him to be a perfect gentleman.
I think he's a buttnugget... and I like the guy. heheheheh.
I imagine his detractors think something different.
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Originally posted by Xargos
One thing about Skyrock that everyone should know, do NOT try to clear his six if he has less then six cons on him, he is simply setting them up. He considers you clearing his six as stealing his kills.
I am NOT joking.
lol Jeff, not 6 though, but 1 or 2 definitely let me have them, for they know not what they do! hee hee I was telling widewing if you want kills in the MA you have to learn a reversal and then give these newbs your 6 to fight them or else they will run at the first sight of aggression by you. I litterally have to let them get within 800 yrds to start owning them or they will just run when they've realised that you know what you're doing!:aok
Mark
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
However, and this is just me, I don't consider a high K/D at 2 kills per hour to be a good pilot.
You've got to admit that the kills per time stat can be misleading?
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You guys (Widewing and Skyrock) just don't know how to tempt a fight in the LWA's.
This works every time:
Fly to a enemy base with no (or at least minimal) friendly dar bar but big enemy dar bar.
Being "close to home" and emboldened by thier numbers the enemy's will fly out to meet you. At this point you have a very short window to get a kill or two before the rest run back to ack cover.
Those you shot down may re-up and come back looking for vengence. Those you can shoot down again.
A very few will not run for cover but stay and fight. These are the better pilots and the ones that you're trying to cull from the crowd of dweebs. Stay focused on these guys and you'll get in at least one or two decent fights. The rest will auger or die of their own accord.
Kill totals go way up if you've got a wingman and if you've got two the enemy dar bar will dry up quickly at which point the rest of your countrymen will now come join the "fight".
This is not a joke. It actually works.
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Originally posted by Stoney74
You've got to admit that the kills per time stat can be misleading?
My kills per time numbers always stink. It's because i spend as much time high-alt buff hunting as I do furballing and also because, when defending a field, I usually start one or two fields back so I can meet the enemy at alt.
Well... plus... I'm not all that good (I land a lot of 1-2 kill sorties and flying out and back for so little also takes time).
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Originally posted by Stoney74
You've got to admit that the kills per time stat can be misleading?
It's easy to generate a high kills/hour, kills/sortie ratio.
Get a cannon bird and join the vulching horde popping noobs on the runway or PTs spawning from a sunken CV. I see guys landing 10 kills in a Chog or Niki and I already know how many of them got most, if not all of the kills.
Scores and scoring tells me absolutely nothing about a pilot's fighting ability.
My regards,
Widewing
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So why not change "vets" to egocentric opportunists instead of painting the whole membership of this game as selfish runners who only fly 1337 planes so they can get 20 WTGs on country channel? People fly how they want and have fun, why does that make them bad? It doesn't make them bad does it, my mistake. Carry on.
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I cant speak for other people, but i have played this game for a long time now and whenever i log on, i look for the sector with the biggest red darbar.
If there is no red darbar, i look at the other countries fronts to see if there is a fight going, and if necessary change country.
I am too impatient to fly to enemy fields in order to get kills, which is why 95% of my sorties are defensive. It is rare that i will up at a field unless there are enough cons to get 5+ kills.
I enjoy the challenge of fighting against the odds, in aircraft like the 110 (the origins of this thread are from the 110 thread). I often fly it on the deck against all sorts of opposition because i enjoy the challenge of it. It is rare that i go above 10k.
I fly the N1K a lot and the LA7 a fair bit simply because i find these the most effective in killing lots of cons while outnumbered (which is where i usually find myself) and they suit my flying style.
Although i think your points are valid to some people kweassa, i think it is wrong to generalise like you have. Everyone has their own fighting styles.
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Originally posted by quintv
Using your friends as bait - perhaps the wording is much for some people, but its pretty standard tactic, keep the guy fixated on one while the other swoops in and knocks it down. Now if hes not calling peoples 6 just for the oppurtunity, then hes salamander, otherwise thats how flying should be done.
What do you mean by flying like a weenie? Red all around and dropping flaps to get a shot on a single guy, blowing all your E and leaving yourself as meat on the table for the 5 Spits and N1Ks within 3.0,,,,is this flying with "balls"?
I'm more than happy to be used as bait--I'm usually in P47N--and lotsa idgits see that P47 ican and forget about all else as they go after an easy kill. I know they prolly aren't gonna get me, it takes away the high enemy cap in the fight, and gets a kill for a country-mate.:aok (A deep well of good will is a good thing to draw upon at various times)
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I'm generally the same Ball, lots of red cons or squad mates is what I look for when I log on. They are usually in the same spot.
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Moving from one simulation to the other absolutely destroys a sim pilots expertise.
It's essential to pilot the less capable aerocraft to learn first hand what they CAN'T do. Most times I pilot myself into the worst situations knowing that my advantages are lost. The experience teaches and I get lazy setting up and then resetting up which always includes extending, re-climbing and then looking for situation engagement superiority. It can be fun just to charge in.
When it is essential to prevail then the pilot must know the flight physics of the model and that of the others to a point where you lead the other pilot into a disadvantaged state and without looking, you know when and where he will be. In coming from another sim, I found myself absolutely frustrated that none of my conjectures worked here. I would lead an inferior plane into a lower energy state only to find them above me going faster!!!
In AH a lot of pilots a lot of manuevers dont work well and I see many pilots simply joining in a conga line. I notice also that the defenders leading these conga lines normally end their escape attempt by shooting up into a climb, thereby reducing their speed and thus shortening the distance from the nearest attacker. I havn't as yet figured out why that manuever is so common here in AH.
I also am surprised to find so many AH pilots going for head on shots. It is very common here and now I find I am doing it again after having taught myself other manuevers which worked better. For example, in approach to an attackers HO, when my planes orientation is clear to the attacker, I would turn slightly to the left or right and enter a shallow dive thus forcing the attacker to also turn and enter into a dive. Then I would switch to turn the other direction just slightly off center of the attackers line of projection. In his dive, he is loosing roll speed and elevator sensitivity but must attempt to turn and dive to gain a shot, which he will not be able to do. Not ever. I would then be entering into a climb as the attacker is in a turning dive. The apex of my climp will orient me to be entering a dive as the attacker is either extending away or most often entering a climb in the direction of the turn which I placed them into. Now the opponent will have lost massive amounts of energy pulling hard into the the diving turn and will continue to pull hard into a climb which will result in much less energy than I have because I entered into a climb earlier without a hard turn. I then regain energy and come down on the opponent or pursue. Regardless of how the maneuver is played out the plane which dives to get the HO uses up more energy and is therefor dead meat. In AH this manuever does not work. As such I abandoned it in place of the HO again.
There is of coarse one way to defeat the manuever I have described and that is to not enter the dive but as the challenger goes into the slow dive and turn to not attempt the shot but to go into a slow climb. This results in the diving plane having lost energy and unless the opponent makes a mistake you're dead. But none of this seems to work in AH.
RASTER
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Well I am a newb to AHII :cool:
But... I flew AW for 5 years until its demise and became .... IMHO a fairly good fighter pilot. I was in the top 200 pilots off and on the last couple years I flew.
So I think that some players fly like the original post describes. So what.. :cool:
We each have our own style we like for what ever reasons we choose. As far as I am concerned ... we buys our ticket and we takes our chances every time we up. :cool:
Just starting to learn to fly again in AHII I am not very good. But my style is to jump into a crowd and dance. I am not a Duelist, I dont go for the one on one fights. I dont consider them fun. I prefer the furball play. For me I find it more exciting and enjoyable to dance in a crowd. That is why I play this game. To get away from the stress and crud of every day Real Life.
:cool:
I am sure that some see what was placed in the original post as a form of "how to succeed" in a flight simm. Well I think it is one way. Although I think that the really good sticks in a flight simm are those that really understand the abilities and weaknesses of each aircraft and use them to a high level of their potential. I think they work very hard to hone their skills in each of the aircraft they fly and after long and repeated sessions they figure it out.
I have to say that in the past couple weeks that I have been flying AHII I have had the great pleasure to fly with and against some really good sticks. :cool:
I have had a blast getting my tail shot off and chewing up a few of your tails in the process. :aok
This game is a real hoot and I am glad I found it. :cool:
All the fly :aok
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Originally posted by Stoney74
You've got to admit that the kills per time stat can be misleading?
1 or 2 stats can be misleading, but, hypothetically, if I look at someone's stats and figures for a series of tours, and they claim to up at vulched fields, or fight in 10 to 1 odds, and I see, again, purely hypothetically, 50 sorties, 35 landed, all kills in a dora or a jet, and averaging 15 mins per sortie, with less than 1 kill per sortie, and 2 kills per hour... I can assume they're either not really flying in those situations, or they're taking off and flying directly away from the field and landing 2 sectors away without firing a shot.
While Widewing makes a good point on not being able to judge ability, I think you can see certain tendencies, and simultaneous high K/D, K/T, and K/S means either ace or hordemonkey, and usually the latter. For the average base defender, one of those is likely to be a polar opposite of the others.
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
Please go read Kweassa's second post further down this thread:
http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201617
Here's a small excerpt regarding vets:
Originally posted by Kweassa
1) None of them appear at a disadvantaged front.
2) None of them try their "fly inferior planes and land two-digit kills" stunt in such fronts.
3) None of them help their countrymates.
4) They are first to dive to an opportunity and also the first to run when things start to go bad.
5) All of them hide the above facts.
Honestly BaldEagle, who gives a flying rat's arse what Kweassa thinks about how others fly? Why are you letting this get to you? If you fly like he describes, so what? If you don't fly like he describes, so what? If you have fun flying the way you do, that's great! That's what this game is ultimately about, it's about having fun and not caring what the twits say.
Fly what you want, how you want. Have fun.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Honestly BaldEagle, who gives a flying rat's arse what Kweassa thinks about how others fly? Why are you letting this get to you? If you fly like he describes, so what? If you don't fly like he describes, so what? If you have fun flying the way you do, that's great! That's what this game is ultimately about, it's about having fun and not caring what the twits say.
Fly what you want, how you want. Have fun.
ack-ack
you only posted that because you are the exact person he is describing. :p
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If I am, so be it. At least I'm having fun, unlike Kweassa.
ack-ack
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That's because the rare moments I'm online these days, I'm so busy getting shot down in the darkest corners of the world, that my own burnt carcass piled up would be higher than the Himalayas. Look for the lone 109 or a Ki-84 in the baddest situation possible and then you'd find me, for about a minute and half, until I get shot down and can't get up again because of the gaggles of laser-guided bomber tards shutting my airfield down.
Does this somehow qualify you as a better pilot? Where does this give you the right to pontificate about other pilots habits as if your own habits somehow are nobler and require more skill? Any blind person can up from a vulched field continuously and get a kill every 15 minutes or so. Heck, you could do better than that off proxies from augers without ever trying to take off. So how do you somehow rate as some person in a position to be critical of others simply because you provide vulch fodder for the hordes?
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Originally posted by SteveBailey
So how do you somehow rate as some person in a position to be critical of others simply because you provide vulch fodder for the hordes?
Vulch fodder for vets. Lets not lose the correct terminology.
:D Just kidding!
Oh, and what AKAK said:
Fly what you want, how you want. Have fun.
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Man, what happened to this place. LOLH
Kweassa grand standing, people saying good things about skyrock and I even think I saw a "Shane" post. It's gotta be an imposter. I had to check the date on the post twice lolh.
Classic Cherry Picker bait, love it!!!!
carry on... LOL:rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by mars01
Man, what happened to this place. LOLH
Kweassa grand standing, people saying good things about skyrock and I even think I saw a "Shane" post. It's gotta be an imposter. I had to check the date on the post twice lolh.
Classic Cherry Picker bait, love it!!!!
carry on... LOL:rofl :rofl
Open forum season .
To purchase a ticket you need one ego and a key board .
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Originally posted by mars01
carry on... LOL:rofl :rofl
Be quiet, you cherry picker.
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
(yes its a him)...
Not so much.
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Does this somehow qualify you as a better pilot? Where does this give you the right to pontificate about other pilots habits as if your own habits somehow are nobler and require more skill?
Maybe you read the context as being "more noble" and "requires more skill" because some part of you inside thinks it actually is. I certainly don't, nor have I ever implied such.
Any blind person can up from a vulched field continuously and get a kill every 15 minutes or so. Heck, you could do better than that off proxies from augers without ever trying to take off. So how do you somehow rate as some person in a position to be critical of others simply because you provide vulch fodder for the hordes?
No. I somehow rate as some person in a position to be critical of others because simply I am there, and they are not.
I criticize them of being bellicose idiots because according to my own experience, I've seen none of the most loud-mouthed self-styled "l33T" idiots ever show face under circumstances where they can actually prove they are capable of doing more than just shooting tons of fish in the barrel in the easiest parts of the map.
Like you said, any bozo can up from a vulched field and get a kill every 15 minutes or so. It just so happens I enjoy trying to squirm and survive under those bad conditions.
Unfortunately, the "vet" idiots claim that they can take on multiple enemies, fight 4~5 bad guys to a stand still, use the super-duper ACM crap to overshoot every doofus behind them, and shoot the "n00b suckers" down every 2 minutes of their engagement time. Wow, geez, what an amazing feat of skill. Let's see them prove themselves true in the parts of the map I fly in. If we had about 3 of them "vets" around in where I fly at, we'd probably able to halt the entire enemy advance with just 4~5 pilots.
But then again, despite all their "vet-talk", none of them ever show up.
Hence, "I am there, they are not." I am in a position to criticize them of embellishment, exaggeration, hypocrisy, and being cherrypicking tardlets who just likes to pretend that they are distinguishably different than any one of those n00bs and average joes of the MA they are so keen to ridicule and laugh at.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Maybe you read the context as being "more noble" and "requires more skill" because some part of you inside thinks it actually is. I certainly don't, nor have I ever implied such.
No. I somehow rate as some person in a position to be critical of others because simply I am there, and they are not.
I criticize them of being bellicose idiots because according to my own experience, I've seen none of the most loud-mouthed self-styled "l33T" idiots ever show face under circumstances where they can actually prove they are capable of doing more than just shooting tons of fish in the barrel in the easiest parts of the map.
Like you said, any bozo can up from a vulched field and get a kill every 15 minutes or so. It just so happens I enjoy trying to squirm and survive under those bad conditions.
Unfortunately, the "vet" idiots claim that they can take on multiple enemies, fight 4~5 bad guys to a stand still, use the super-duper ACM crap to overshoot every doofus behind them, and shoot the "n00b suckers" down every 2 minutes of their engagement time. Wow, geez, what an amazing feat of skill. Let's see them prove themselves true in the parts of the map I fly in. If we had about 3 of them "vets" around in where I fly at, we'd probably able to halt the entire enemy advance with just 4~5 pilots.
But then again, despite all their "vet-talk", none of them ever show up.
Hence, "I am there, they are not." I am in a position to criticize them of embellishment, exaggeration, hypocrisy, and being cherrypicking tardlets who just likes to pretend that they are distinguishably different than any one of those n00bs and average joes of the MA they are so keen to ridicule and laugh at.
Rebuttal in film.
Hurricane IIC (http://www.slowcat.de/slowcats1/films/HurricaneIIC.ahf)
Not me as I am not in the same zip code at the person in this film.
Bronk
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Originally posted by SkyRock
SkyRock<---owns Vets!
If I still had a PC (that isn't broken), I'd log in and slaughter you for that comment :cool:
You know it, too :aok
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Maybe you read the context as being "more noble" and "requires more skill" because some part of you inside thinks it actually is. I certainly don't, nor have I ever implied such.
But isn't this exactly what you're doing here? You act like we should give you the AH Medal of Honor for throwing yourself in between the enemy and our women and children.
Just because they aren't "there" does not devalue their skills, or worth to the game. The MA is a no-holds-barred, WWE ring, with no-mans land in between the fields. How someone decides to play the game and manage that environment is a choice, renewed every month when the $15 is sent to HTC, that they are entitled to.
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I'd like to take this time to confess.
It was me.....I'm the vet that refuses to fly under those conditions. I can barely fight my way out of a wet paper bag, but I do like to type and to do all that typing I need to be away from the fight.
Nothing worse then dying while typing.
But despite my misdeeds I still refuse to quit!
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Originally posted by wetrat
If I still had a PC (that isn't broken), I'd log in and slaughter you for that comment :cool:
You know it, too :aok
Not any more! hee hee I been practicing!:D
Now hurry up and get a comp working! :aok
Mark
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Great sig material... please, keep it up.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Let's see them prove themselves true in the parts of the map I fly in.
There we have it folks, the crux of Kweassa's rant. His feelings have been hurt and he's lashing out.
In his mind, he's a true "Elite Vet" and he's just been waiting for someone to mention him in one of those dreadful "Who's the best..." threads. He runs home from work every day and flips on the computer just to see if someone has started one of those threads about him. Of course he's sad and heartbroken when he doesn't see one so he quickly checks the trainer/help forum to see if anyone has posted asking for his help to fly such and such plane. But sadly, this too does not happen and poor Kweassa is crushed. After all these years without recognition as one of the "Elite" the burden has just become too much for our Kweassa to shoulder and he's lashing out with what amounts to a forum version of a 5 year old temper tantrum.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Zazen13
5) Gunnery- Hit hard and fast, killing quickly is a factor of gunnery, bad gunnery means slow kills. If you kill slowly your're going to get saddled, cherry picked and gang-banged no matter how good of a pilot your are.
4) Poor gunnery is death assured for the furballer, in a complex engagement if you cannot kill quickly you're going to get saddled, cherry picked and gang banged ALOT.
Welcome to my world..............
re the using your freinds as bait bit.............
I am never sure if I am or not doing this........... Quite often I see a 1 v 1 below me and will hover over it asking the fellow below if he wants me to intervene............if he says yes and I do then it must surely look like cherry picking.
If he says no and then gets shot down.....my next act will be to cherry pick his assailent.
On the other hand I may sometimes respond to some poor sap in a hopeless situation (usually low, slow and serious out numbered) yelling for assistance. Thinking that my presence should turn a 3 v 1 into a 3 v 2, I blow E and alt to mix it only to find that the first "event" to occur is his demise. Thus its still 3 v1..........but not as I would have had it if I was unconcerned about clearing his 6.
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Ok, I'm very confused. Does this mean I have to get out of my D40 and go back to my D11 to get this thread closed???????????????:huh
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Originally posted by Tilt
........... Quite often I see a 1 v 1 below me and will hover over it asking the fellow below if he wants me to intervene............if he says yes and I do then it must surely look like cherry picking.
If he says no and then gets shot down.....my next act will be to cherry pick his assailent.
On the other hand I may sometimes respond to some poor sap in a hopeless situation (usually low, slow and serious out numbered) yelling for assistance. Thinking that my presence should turn a 3 v 1 into a 3 v 2, I blow E and alt to mix it only to find that the first "event" to occur is his demise. Thus its still 3 v1..........but not as I would have had it if I was unconcerned about clearing his 6.
Tilt, what you do is how it should be for every pilot out there. With the exception of a 3 v 1. If I see it and I have the ammo/fuel I don't wait for a call for help. I just even the odds a little.
Kewessa describes one of three player types in AH. Pick the one that fits....
1) The score hounds: These people will fly for kills or bomb damage only. They won't EVER bail for troops or to defend another base. They will rarely intentionally put themselves in danger. They MUST land the kills they get. Score/rank is all important.
2) The furballers: These people love the fight. Even though the fight serves no purpose other than chest thumping. Score/rank means little to these players.
3) The full immersion player: These people will do anything it takes to defend or take a base. Bailing for troops, to jump in a GV, sacrificing themselves to kill inbound troops or to defend another base is not uncommon. Score/rank means nothing to these players.
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"But isn't this exactly what you're doing here? You act like we should give you the AH Medal of Honor for throwing yourself in between the enemy and our women and children."
It's actually about BEagle bringing up something he wrote and which BEagle did not agree and BEagle and many others bashing him until he comes here and explains why he wrote what he originally wrote in tips for flying Bf110 successfully. As Ack-Ack wrote earlier , why be so sensitive about it and bring it up like this? He threw a stone in the darkness in frustration and it hit you? Some of you people obviously just searched for such reason to get at him. So sad.
"The full immersion player: These people will do anything it takes to defend or take a base. Bailing for troops, to jump in a GV, sacrificing themselves to kill inbound troops or to defend another base is not uncommon. Score/rank means nothing to these players."
I don't think that is actually a full immersion player. A full immersion player fears for his virtual life, and if he happens to be skilled as well, thus "secures all his advantages before attacking so that he would not need to use his superior skills to get out of that situation."
It's always hilarious when I run into someone who fits into this definition. I run half the map to get him and when I catch him (or her ;) ) I feel like a dog who chases a truck and finally catches it... :D
Numerous times I have been mixing it with low cons wanting somebody to come for help, and getting killed in this kind of situation is bitter. But when I think of reasons, the blame is not usually on those who have not come down to help me, but in myself and how I have got into the situation where I'm mixing it with multiple bogies with no hope of surviving, be there help available or not. Many times the skilled pilots choose another place the fight than that of greatest need of help but thats OK. Maybe they do not wish to fight desperately for a base that will be lost after they have left, or maybe they have that couple of hours before having to go to sleep and they just want some kind of easy entertainment in form of a nice furball with lots of targets. After that they land their kills, or they do not, and leave for bed. Beats me and I don't care really, but it is nice when they happen to be around and I can count on their professionalism.
-C+
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Originally posted by Guppy35
I'd like to take this time to confess.
It was me.....I'm the vet that refuses to fly under those conditions. I can barely fight my way out of a wet paper bag, but I do like to type and to do all that typing I need to be away from the fight.
Nothing worse then dying while typing.
But despite my misdeeds I still refuse to quit!
Well, as long as you're confessing.... I can't fight my way INTO a wet paper bag!!!
But, why should I care. I'm having fun and fun, after all, trumps skillz any day for me. :)
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what's with the wet paper bag analogies?
it's well-known that none of you can ACM ur way out of an air castle!!
:aok
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you need to return so I can smack you around some more.
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Such frail egos Aces High has wrought unto this world.
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Originally posted by Xargos
Such frail egos Aces High has wrought unto this world.
Thankfully most of them fly too high to be of much concern.
:aok
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Originally posted by Shane
Thankfully most of them fly too high to be of much concern.
:aok
Why single out AKAK? heee heee:D
:aok Mark
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Originally posted by NHawk
3) The full immersion player: These people will do anything it takes to defend or take a base. Bailing for troops, to jump in a GV, sacrificing themselves to kill inbound troops or to defend another base is not uncommon. Score/rank means nothing to these players.
Full immersion players?!! they bail to bring troops...sacrifice themselves?!! I always thought at full immersion guys as the one who try to get home every sortie because they only have one life.
you seem to be describing the horde lemmings who for some reason believe there is a war some where on his computer screen and that he must "win" it....just to start all over again.
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Originally posted by NHawk
Tilt, what you do is how it should be for every pilot out there. With the exception of a 3 v 1. If I see it and I have the ammo/fuel I don't wait for a call for help. I just even the odds a little.
Kewessa describes one of three player types in AH. Pick the one that fits....
1) The score hounds: These people will fly for kills or bomb damage only. They won't EVER bail for troops or to defend another base. They will rarely intentionally put themselves in danger. They MUST land the kills they get. Score/rank is all important.
2) The furballers: These people love the fight. Even though the fight serves no purpose other than chest thumping. Score/rank means little to these players.
3) The full immersion player: These people will do anything it takes to defend or take a base. Bailing for troops, to jump in a GV, sacrificing themselves to kill inbound troops or to defend another base is not uncommon. Score/rank means nothing to these players.
i like this summary..though i agree "full immersion" probably needs to be replaced with "goal oriented" or the derisive "win the war type" descriptor...
again...the arenas are set up so all can have their style of flying...what causes the conflict is the following secret....
you cant have success in one and fly the other style....
so for example...if im a furballer and i want to fight a score/rank guy...its not going to happen...he wont put himself into my environment (and i dont want to grab alt and fly the planes that might force a fight)....so i hate him and tell him he is a loser...
and if im a "goal oriented/win the war type" i hate the furballer who follows me around and wont kill the town or bring troops...i see them as useless...so i hate him and post that he is a loser...
and if im a furballer who loves to fight or score/rank guy...then i hate the goal oriented guy because he takes the bases and "ruins" the fight...plus he has made rude comments towards me about not bringing troops and pissed me off...
and if im a score/rank guy...im mostly quiet and dont post because it embarrasses me somewhat that i cant strafe down town in fiter mode because it screws my hit percentage or bring an m3 or goon because it ruins my sorties/kill/damage if i dont get the capture or die...plus everybody hates me so i hate them too...
and if im kweassa everyone hates me...dont have a reason for this but im guessing some previous posts...
but hey I, Falconwing, am hated by all too so dont feel bad...it is not for my l33tn3ss...but because i am C.O. of a squad which has ruined the game and destroyed the old MA...so dont feel bad...
there is only one AH type which is not hated...the newbie who keeps allowing easy kills and never types on ch 200:aok
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Originally posted by FALCONWING
i like this summary..though i agree "full immersion" probably needs to be replaced with "goal oriented" or the derisive "win the war type" descriptor...
again...the arenas are set up so all can have their style of flying...what causes the conflict is the following secret....
you cant have success in one and fly the other style....
so for example...if im a furballer and i want to fight a score/rank guy...its not going to happen...he wont put himself into my environment (and i dont want to grab alt and fly the planes that might force a fight)....so i hate him and tell him he is a loser...
and if im a "goal oriented/win the war type" i hate the furballer who follows me around and wont kill the town or bring troops...i see them as useless...so i hate him and post that he is a loser...
and if im a furballer who loves to fight or score/rank guy...then i hate the goal oriented guy because he takes the bases and "ruins" the fight...plus he has made rude comments towards me about not bringing troops and pissed me off...
and if im a score/rank guy...im mostly quiet and dont post because it embarrasses me somewhat that i cant strafe down town in fiter mode because it screws my hit percentage or bring an m3 or goon because it ruins my sorties/kill/damage if i dont get the capture or die...plus everybody hates me so i hate them too...
and if im kweassa everyone hates me...dont have a reason for this but im guessing some previous posts...
but hey I, Falconwing, am hated by all too so dont feel bad...it is not for my l33tn3ss...but because i am C.O. of a squad which has ruined the game and destroyed the old MA...so dont feel bad...
there is only one AH type which is not hated...the newbie who keeps allowing easy kills and never types on ch 200:aok
I'm going to print this and keep it next to my toilet just in case I run out of TP. At least this way I will feel this post has at least some merit and was not a complete pile of BS and waste of time.
:aok
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you really have to read it more than once to fully appreciate it:D
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Originally posted by NHawk
Kewessa describes one of three player types in AH. Pick the one that fits....
1) The score hounds: These people will fly for kills or bomb damage only. They won't EVER bail for troops or to defend another base. They will rarely intentionally put themselves in danger. They MUST land the kills they get. Score/rank is all important.
2) The furballers: These people love the fight. Even though the fight serves no purpose other than chest thumping. Score/rank means little to these players.
3) The full immersion player: These people will do anything it takes to defend or take a base. Bailing for troops, to jump in a GV, sacrificing themselves to kill inbound troops or to defend another base is not uncommon. Score/rank means nothing to these players.
I am each and every one of these and others not described at different times depending on my mood, what I want to fly, what I want to try to accomplish, etc. This pigeon-holing is no different than Kweassa's attempt to describe all "vets" with broad brush strokes.
Sure, there probably are players who fit into one and only one of these (or other) catagories. And maybe they don't get along, but I spend as much time furballing as milkrunning as base-taking as... well, more time furballing and yes, sometimes even cherry-picking.
While I get the most satisfaction from a great fight in a fighter, be it one on one, me on many or in a furball, I also like other styles of play and all of the facets of the game. I enjoy vehicles, bombers, attack missions, base captures, base defense, ship gunning, etc., etc., etc.
While I claim to, and do regularily fly alone into heavy enemy situations, I sometimes find the hoard comforting. It allows me to relax a little and hopefully pick up a couple of kills. While I claim to like furballing I also like high-alt buff hunting.
For me nothing in the game is off-limits. I try to enjoy everything the game has to offer at different times including some activities looked down upon by others. If it's possible, I'll try it.
Through all of this, I usually seem to get along fine with most around me. I'll help where needed but rarely ask for help. If I'm in a position where I need help it's usually because I put myself there on purpose.
As to why did I start this post or what's my beef with Kweassa, I didn't like the way he portrayed ALL veteren players as score-whoring cherry-pickers (and yes, he did say ALL "vets" which is why I carried it over to this forum... to gain a broader response) and was particularily annoyed that he did so in the Help and Training Forum frequented by Noobs. Is this what we, as a community want them to learn?
I don't want to be painted by that broad brush-stroke and while I don't help the noobs out when in the arenas, I do frequent the Help and Training Forum to give answers where I have them, encouragement where I can and advice that I hope they find useful. Their development is good for all of us. Not that I'm nobel or anything because once in the arenas they are just more dead meat to me.
I've never claimed to be the best pilot but after almost 11 years I like to think I do OK and I'm a little bit proud of my flight-sim "vet" status. If, because of that experience, I can offer something up that will help a noob become a better pilot so I can have another worthy adversary then, within limits (i.e. don't bug me in the arenas), that's what I'll do.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Funny! But then again you have gotten upset at my arrogance before!
Mark
Huh. Your boyfriend told me you were really sweet and sensitive.
Go figure.
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Originally posted by Yknurd
My boyfriend told me I am really sweet and sensitive.
Go figure.
Yeah, that doesn't sound like you!
Mark
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Originally posted by BaldEagl
I am each and every one of these and others not described at different times depending on my mood, what I want to fly, what I want to try to accomplish, etc. This pigeon-holing is no different than Kweassa's attempt to describe all "vets" with broad brush strokes.
Sure, there probably are players who fit into one and only one of these (or other) catagories. And maybe they don't get along, but I spend as much time furballing as milkrunning as base-taking as... well, more time furballing and yes, sometimes even cherry-picking.
While I get the most satisfaction from a great fight in a fighter, be it one on one, me on many or in a furball, I also like other styles of play and all of the facets of the game. I enjoy vehicles, bombers, attack missions, base captures, base defense, ship gunning, etc., etc., etc.
While I claim to, and do regularily fly alone into heavy enemy situations, I sometimes find the hoard comforting. It allows me to relax a little and hopefully pick up a couple of kills. While I claim to like furballing I also like high-alt buff hunting.
For me nothing in the game is off-limits. I try to enjoy everything the game has to offer at different times including some activities looked down upon by others. If it's possible, I'll try it.
Through all of this, I usually seem to get along fine with most around me. I'll help where needed but rarely ask for help. If I'm in a position where I need help it's usually because I put myself there on purpose.
As to why did I start this post or what's my beef with Kweassa, I didn't like the way he portrayed ALL veteren players as score-whoring cherry-pickers (and yes, he did say ALL "vets" which is why I carried it over to this forum... to gain a broader response) and was particularily annoyed that he did so in the Help and Training Forum frequented by Noobs. Is this what we, as a community want them to learn?
I don't want to be painted by that broad brush-stroke and while I don't help the noobs out when in the arenas, I do frequent the Help and Training Forum to give answers where I have them, encouragement where I can and advice that I hope they find useful. Their development is good for all of us. Not that I'm nobel or anything because once in the arenas they are just more dead meat to me.
I've never claimed to be the best pilot but after almost 11 years I like to think I do OK and I'm a little bit proud of my flight-sim "vet" status. If, because of that experience, I can offer something up that will help a noob become a better pilot so I can have another worthy adversary then, within limits (i.e. don't bug me in the arenas), that's what I'll do.
You probably accurately described many of the vets with this post.
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Yeah, that doesn't sound like you!
Mark
LOL. Didn't take you long to respond.
Dance monkey! Dance!!1ONE
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Let's see them prove themselves true in the parts of the map I fly in.
Out of curiosity, what part of the map is that?
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
There we have it folks, the crux of Kweassa's rant. His feelings have been hurt and he's lashing out.
In his mind, he's a true "Elite Vet" and he's just been waiting for someone to mention him in one of those dreadful "Who's the best..." threads. He runs home from work every day and flips on the computer just to see if someone has started one of those threads about him. Of course he's sad and heartbroken when he doesn't see one so he quickly checks the trainer/help forum to see if anyone has posted asking for his help to fly such and such plane. But sadly, this too does not happen and poor Kweassa is crushed. After all these years without recognition as one of the "Elite" the burden has just become too much for our Kweassa to shoulder and he's lashing out with what amounts to a forum version of a 5 year old temper tantrum.
ack-ack
Kweassa's always been even easier than you :cool: P38's are just such a big target...
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Originally posted by SkyRock
Not any more! hee hee I been practicing!:D
Now hurry up and get a comp working! :aok
Mark
Gonna be a while... racked up a pretty big debt over the last couple semesters :( I'm afraid my credit rating is going to have to take precedent over PC parts when I have a mac that works just fine :mad:
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Originally posted by wetrat
a wetrat is a beaver you perverts
I thought a wetrat was nothing more than a lemming................:D
hurry back wetrat.........;)
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Originally posted by wetrat
Gonna be a while... racked up a pretty big debt over the last couple semesters :( I'm afraid my credit rating is going to have to take precedent over PC parts when I have a mac that works just fine :mad:
Just post what you need to get flying, many of us will share what have to get you flying!
Mark