Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 24, 2007, 09:59:26 PM

Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 24, 2007, 09:59:26 PM
Salute Gents and Ladies,

Well, I don’t know what you've been doing waiting for the new Skin Pack but I have been working on a new skin for the "next" patch :)  I figured a 262 would be pretty safe and not in a CT release, so not "in the works" at HTC to be redone yet.

o 2 months (partime) work

o 2 new books [Jet Aces of the Luftwaffe, Squadron Signal Walk Around #42]

o 100+ Photos (Period pics and Museum shots from the Smithsonian.)

160 hours on her.  Complete rework of the panel lines and flush rivet work.  New elements added like the Brass Ejection Blister on the cover panel. Brass Ejection Ports on the Lower Fuselage. Gun Camera Access Plate. Rework and repositioning of the First-Aid Access Panel. Panel line around the Canopy Housing. Panel lines around the Wingroot Fillet. Correct Alignment of the Flaps, Ailerons, and Leading Edge Slats.  Really too many things to remember since I started her :)

The aircraft is White 8 of Kommando Nowotny. This is the personal aircraft of Walter Nowotny himself.  If you have not read anything on the man or the unit, wow what a history!  Had to skin her after a squadmate turned me onto him.  No period pic of White 8 herself.  However, I used a series of similarly painted aircraft to make my attempt at her...main paint-scheme from White 23 of the same unit (only documented difference was the yellow paint on the forward portion of the Narcille for White 8.)

Anyway, if you've read this far, then lets throw up a couple of pics...First up, the profiles (actually found 2 profiles that did not match each other, made best attempts from the combination of the 2.)
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 24, 2007, 10:01:05 PM
Profile #2
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 24, 2007, 10:01:46 PM
I also used a pretty detailed model as reference for some of the markings on the Upper
Fuselage.
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 24, 2007, 10:02:27 PM
Period Pic that shows White 23 (located right side of photo.)  Notice how the Upper Surface Camo Pattern extends to the base of the wingroot, rather than above the wingroot reflected in the model.
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 24, 2007, 10:04:13 PM
Here she is!  Forward 3/4 view from the Tarmac.  Notice the new elements like the Blister and the Brass Ejection Ports.  Yeah baby ;)
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 24, 2007, 10:04:56 PM
Pretty happy with this part of the modeling.  I finally got the Brass Ejection Ports to align with the ejection of the spent cartridges.  Thats detail right there!  I dont care who ya are :)
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 24, 2007, 10:05:50 PM
Overall view of her in the air.  Sexy and ready to party!
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Krusty on March 24, 2007, 10:06:23 PM
Looks like you've got some good references, for sure. So, are you going to be doing all-green, green/green, or brown/green? You said you'd be taking from the references (and I do this myself, come up with the best mix), but you didn't say what you were going to settle on.
:aok

I thought about doing a 262, myself, but there's so few schemes out there.


EDIT: Never mind on that question, I posted before your screenshots showed up on screen, now they do!
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 24, 2007, 10:06:42 PM
Finally, a shot of the Wing from the Cockpit.  Gives a better view of the Riveting and the weathering.  I did a few experimental things with the rivets to give them a more "Flush" feeling rather than the Armor Rivets :)
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Krusty on March 24, 2007, 10:08:43 PM
I think I like it. I'd definitely fly with that skin.

I just don't like the ripple effects on the White 8, and the simmer's paintshop version of the white cross (similar ripples). I don't think they'd look like that.
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 24, 2007, 10:09:33 PM
The Jpeg compression has taken away the detailing of the rivets, but you get the idea :)

Things I did not do on purpose before the feedback begins:

o Omitted the Work Number on the tail section.  It mirrored and I would rather omit it than have it reversed on the other side.

o Omitted gunpowder staining behind the gunports.  Every reference I found in the period pics did not have anything severe enough for me to tell it was stained.  Any I found with any type of discoloration was on light colored aircraft.  I will gladly put these in if someone can provide me a reference for a dark aircraft.

o There is a small 45 degree rectangular panel line series on the rear wing section near the cockpit that is NOT historical or accurate.  This was necessary to place because of a mirroring piece on the Wingroot.  I tried to make it blend with the wing construction as much as I could so it would not stand out.

o Paint Scheme on the Upper Wing Surfaces is only historic to the Left Wing.  It mirrors to the right. Can’t wait for HTC to update it so I can do it more accurately.

o Finally, the paint-scheme for the canopy.  It should be half RLM 81 and Half RLM 82.  However, the skin model actually uses 5! yes 5! portions of the .bmp to construct the Canopy support structure.  Sorry, even I will only go so far :)

That’s it!  Please do leave feedback on anything that you feel would positively influence this skin.  I tried to make her as accurate as I could with the reference materials I had, but am quite sure I have overlooked or omitted things that should be done.

Sorry the post was so long.  I am quite happy this part of the project is done as you can tell :)  I’m tired of working on 262's lol.

Let the feedback begin!

ReDhAwK
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 24, 2007, 10:14:26 PM
Heya Krusty.  Man, Didnt even get everything posted before you got in here :)

I think the "rippled" effect you're talking about is where I erased portions of the white paint of the cross and number 8 away.  I did it on purpose for weathering.  Do you feel its a bit much for the weathering or are you talking about something else?  I actually made the cross and 8 myself.  I didnt use the Simmers Paintshop versions.

All mistakes are mine and mine alone :)

ReDhAwK
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Krusty on March 24, 2007, 10:16:45 PM
I feel if you're going to do that on those, you have to do it on the entire aircraft. And then it would look very silly.

If you look in those photos, or any photo of a late-war LW aircraft, you see that even if they're worn out, sun-faded, they're usually relatively solid colors.

I'm all for splotches with the weathering, but I'd put the splotches on their own layer and turn the opacity down to only 5%.

You want to notice it, but you don't want it to take over the entire thing. I think right now it takes over.

EDIT: I don't mean to offend, please don't take it the wrong way. I do love the work you've got so far.
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 24, 2007, 10:21:44 PM
Absolutely no offence taken bud.  Feedback is exactly why I posted her.  It is less than a problem to correct anything anyone feels is inaccurate.

Keep it coming.

ReDhAwK
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Xasthur on March 24, 2007, 11:32:43 PM
A great job, Redhawk.

You deserve a beer or two for that effort.

It looks great to me, great attention to detail.

I have no criticism to add so this is not a useful post, just one of appreciation.

Well done.
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 24, 2007, 11:48:45 PM
Thnky Xasthur

I appreciate it sir.

ReDhAwK
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 25, 2007, 05:07:23 PM
Updated the number 8 and crosses to get rid of the erased versions.  Thnky Krusty.

ReDhAwK
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Krusty on March 25, 2007, 05:11:32 PM
Are you open to a minor nit-pick? It's a small detail, and can probably wait until later.
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 25, 2007, 05:16:45 PM
not at all bud.  What'ya see?

ReDhAwK
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Krusty on March 25, 2007, 05:19:43 PM
The 8 stretches, at the top 1/4th mark. It's just the way the texture maps onto the skin (projection mode, for lack of better term). Scaling down the top half of the top loop about 10% or so might minimize it. Really minor point.


P.S. if this gets accepted I think I'll have a new favorite 262 skin :aok
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Wes14 on March 25, 2007, 05:22:42 PM
not bad of a skin:D

all it needs now is a red paint job with a few Budweiser decals :rolleyes:
Just foolin' with ya:D
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on March 25, 2007, 05:31:41 PM
Thx Wes.  I appreciate it sir.  :)

Heya Krusty.  Projection is the perfect term for that.  I was never able to put my finger on it :)

When you look at the aircraft horizontal down the fuselage it looks good.  However, any angle up or down of horizontal it projects up or down (looks like a stretch.)  

I went with the original size because I found a reference that showed the exact top and bottom alignment of the #8.  However, Im sure HTC wont mind if I reduce just a liiiiitle bit :)  Thx for the eye sir.

ReDhAwK
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Krusty on March 25, 2007, 05:46:38 PM
Heh, well if you'd like to keep the right top/bottom, you could scale up just the middle section :P Make the bottom a bit longer and the top a bit shorter, but the max/min stay the same :p
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Krusty on March 28, 2007, 01:02:19 AM
Still looking forward to it :p
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: 68slayr on April 26, 2007, 11:16:48 PM
i do not know if this skin was already submitted but did you leave out the symbol on the tail on purpose?
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: AWwrgwy on April 26, 2007, 11:20:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 68slayr
i do not know if this skin was already submitted but did you leave out the symbol on the tail on purpose?


Not allowed so as to comply with German laws (?).  


wrngway
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on April 27, 2007, 08:14:32 AM
Correct wrngway.  Swat'si is not allowed.  General census from the beginning of skinning in here has been to just omit it instead of placing something (like a black cross) that would really look wrong.

I haven't submitted her yet as I have been waiting for the, ummm, clears throat, Skin Pack release :)  She is packaged and ready to go though.

ReDhAwK
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Krusty on April 27, 2007, 08:43:22 AM
Oh, dude, get her submitted ASAP. It could take who-knows-how-long to get it in.

If the skin pack is pushed back enough, you just might make it into this one (instead of the next).

When you get a skin done, submit it, don't wait for skin packs, as you cannot predict when they'll come out. Better to have it sent in and in the inbox than waiting on your HD.
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on April 27, 2007, 01:54:49 PM
Point well taken Ur Krustyness.  I will get her out today.

ReDhAwK
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Krusty on April 27, 2007, 02:56:46 PM
I assure you, my motives are entirely selfish!


I just want to see it in-game as soon as possible!
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Serenity on April 27, 2007, 06:42:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Lord ReDhAwK
Correct wrngway.  Swat'si is not allowed.  General census from the beginning of skinning in here has been to just omit it instead of placing something (like a black cross) that would really look wrong.


Um, i just want to say thats a foolish rule. The Swastika is a part of the history this game portrays, and if you honestly are too offended by the sight of it, perhaps you shouldnt be playing a war game... just my $.02

But VERY nice skin!
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Major Biggles on April 27, 2007, 07:13:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Serenity
Um, i just want to say thats a foolish rule. The Swastika is a part of the history this game portrays, and if you honestly are too offended by the sight of it, perhaps you shouldnt be playing a war game... just my $.02

But VERY nice skin!




it's not a choice reynolds. in germany the swastika is totally banned/illegal. anyone found with images of it in any form (even in a computer game) is a criminal offence. it's the law, and for the sake of the german market HTC have banned swastikas (as well as the fact it's a terrible symbol of genocide and evil)

it's just not in good taste
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on April 27, 2007, 07:20:40 PM
Thnky Serenity.  I appreciate it.

Its not a question of being offended by it or not being offended.  The symbol is illegal in a few countrys that HTC caters to.  If they had chosen to include it in their game, they would be unable to sign up subscribers in those areas.  Personally, I like having Schatzi and the others around :)

I remember when I was stationed in Berlin; Mein Kampf was published (in the early 90's.)  You couldnt even buy it off-post.  You were only able to purchase it on the US MIlitary Base.  My "then" German Wife couldn't believe I brought it into "our" house ;)

ReDhAwK
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Serenity on April 27, 2007, 08:52:14 PM
wow, lol. I did not know it was illegal in countries... I think thats kind of foolish as well... if we give such power to a symbol alone... but yes, VERY nice skin! I plan to save up perkies for a 262 when this comes out!!!
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Krusty on April 27, 2007, 09:04:50 PM
It's also illegal to deny or downplay the role of the nazis in the holocaust.

Think that's silly?

It's also illegal to have nazi propoganda, from what I recall.

Still think it's silly?

There are a LOT of folks around the world that would deny these things happened, including a certain political leader in the mideast, but a lot of them would incite political upheaval in Germany. Germany has learned from its past, and it has taken steps to insure it does not happen again.

I don't find that silly at all.

I put swastikas on my scale models when I have them, but I don't consider the laws in Germany to be silly.
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Serenity on April 27, 2007, 09:38:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
It's also illegal to deny or downplay the role of the nazis in the holocaust.

Think that's silly?

It's also illegal to have nazi propoganda, from what I recall.

Still think it's silly?

There are a LOT of folks around the world that would deny these things happened, including a certain political leader in the mideast, but a lot of them would incite political upheaval in Germany. Germany has learned from its past, and it has taken steps to insure it does not happen again.

I don't find that silly at all.

I put swastikas on my scale models when I have them, but I don't consider the laws in Germany to be silly.


Im just saying, arent we GIVING such evil power to the symbol by making it illegal like that? Im not disrespecting them, I understand they are showing the world that they dont support hitler and all that, i just think its a bit overkill.... [pulls out i-Pod] Its illegal to have Nazi Propoganda?!? Oh *****... Ive got a LOT of Nazi propoganda on my i-Pod, lol. I study propoganda for fun, so ive got American, British, and Japanese too... should I delete it all? lol
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Krusty on April 28, 2007, 12:09:21 AM
The symbol already had these connotations. We don't give burning crosses an evil meaning, the KKK did, we just make them illegal to curtail KKK activities.

The Nazis gave the swasti its meaning, not us. We're limiting is use as a martyr's symbol and its use in hate speech.
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Serenity on April 28, 2007, 12:42:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
The symbol already had these connotations. We don't give burning crosses an evil meaning, the KKK did, we just make them illegal to curtail KKK activities.

The Nazis gave the swasti its meaning, not us. We're limiting is use as a martyr's symbol and its use in hate speech.


And yet, because kids know its bad because its banned, they spray paint it on walls just to piss of their parents. Im not saying my way is any better, I just, from my particular point of view, dont agree with it. But to each his own, and im sure much smarter minds than mine have decided on this.
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on May 15, 2007, 04:35:07 PM
Just got the "Congrat's" mail from Skuzzy.  White 8 will be in the next release.  Thanks for all the input gents.

ReDhAwK
Title: Me262 White 8
Post by: Krusty on May 15, 2007, 05:08:19 PM
Excellent! This warrants a 262 sortie, when it's released!