Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on March 27, 2007, 06:41:00 PM
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im gonna vote for b25 because the variants are great. even if its only the b25J and b25H that will rule.
come on how much fun is it to take a 75mm tank gun and strap it to a bomber and blow stuff up :D
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The ultimate GV buster, but I could definately see problems arising as everyone would up these in a GV attack and the GV's would get slaughtered. I would say you would almost have to put a High perk price on it or GVing fun will be history.
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A26 I dont think your gonna see that type of weapon in the B25 but the a26 now theres a gv killer.
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Originally posted by 68Ripper
The ultimate GV buster, but I could definately see problems arising as everyone would up these in a GV attack and the GV's would get slaughtered. I would say you would almost have to put a High perk price on it or GVing fun will be history.
HE rounds not AP. Only soft GV need fear.
As the B-25 with the 75 mm main target was supply shipping.
Bronk
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Originally posted by Bronk
HE rounds not AP. Only soft GV need fear.
As the B-25 with the 75 mm main target was supply shipping.
Bronk
But it also has 18 guns, 12 of which are at the buisness end of the plane. the other 6 are (2) upper turret, (2) underbelly turret and (2) tail gun. If I recall correctly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-25_Mitchell
See the "J" variant and it was waist guns not underbelly turret "my bad"
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Only early B/Cs had a remote belly turret. It was quickly removed in the field as it was completely ineffective, and a dead weight. You won't find it on any B-25 we get.
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Originally posted by 68Ripper
But it also has 18 guns, 12 of which are at the buisness end of the plane. the other 6 are (2) upper turret, (2) underbelly turret and (2) tail gun. If I recall correctly.
Whats your point?
Tanks have nothing to fear from .50 cal. (Other than ringing in the ears from pings)
Only SOFT GV need fear.
Bronk
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It's got a tricycle landing gear >:D
Wouldn't it be nice to land by an enemy town, aim the nose at a building and pop it with 75mm?
(*insert evil grin here*)
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the B-25 G and H had the 75mm
The 75mm cannon fired at a muzzle velocity of 2,362 fps, about 720 m/s.
And you don't think that HE rounds fired at a tank will do any damage?? An M8 can take out a Panzer and occaisionally a Tiger if not disable it. And it doesn't take the M8 that many rounds to kill a Panzer.
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Please post a film of you killing ANY tank with HE rounds
Not you stacking damage up on the tracks and being awarded kill , when someone else pierces armor.
I'd love to see it.
Bronk
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Originally posted by 68Ripper
the B-25 G and H had the 75mm
The 75mm cannon fired at a muzzle velocity of 2,362 fps, about 720 m/s.
And you don't think that HE rounds fired at a tank will do any damage?? An M8 can take out a Panzer and occaisionally a Tiger if not disable it. And it doesn't take the M8 that many rounds to kill a Panzer.
First of all, M-8 has AP rounds. Second of all, you might be able to track a tank then shoot into the underside of the turret from the still-tracked side, but that's more of a game exploit (or, do you think real tracked tanks automatically pitched 45 degrees for no reason??)
I fired 10 HE rounds at a panzer (from a panzer) once. All I did was track him, and let him know where I was. He popped me in a single AP hit.
It is a fact that the 75mm on the B-25, IF it's modeled, will NOT kill tanks. LVTs, M3s, M8s, maybe.... Battle tanks, the T-34, the Panzer, the Tiger, and now the Firefly, will be all but immune to it (depending on how weak the Firefly's armor is modeled). Ostwinds, being modeled off the Panzer chassis, will also be immune. You might take out their open topped turret, though.
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All I have to say is..........
PARA FRAGS!!!!! Got to have them.
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Perked B-25H would be fine by me.
What else am I going to use my bomber perkies on?
Not the Ar234.
That has no value in any ground support role.
Nope, the B-25H is what I think I'll be settling on.
(if that variant is offered)
David
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Don't think they'd have much use. We already have enough NOE suicide bombers as-is.... Carpet bombing runways with parafrags in the hopes of a single vulch won't add anything to the game.
Against a town or strat they'd be pretty ineffective, as the chutes added drag and made them "area" bombs, not precision bombs.
While a nice novelty weapon (in the context of this game) I don't see much benefit from their inclusion. I don't see any benefit, in fact. Maybe I'm missing it?
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Well a para frag would be about the same weight as a 5" HE shell. Couple of those will take a town building down no problem. Fly in low over the town, drop a string, loop around make anouther pass and before you know it the town is down. They would also be good for de-acking a field considering the amount of the things that could be carried. I recall reading some where that a B-25 could carry upwards of 60 of the things. That's some pretty good fire power when you think about it. Plus because of the chute you don't have to worry about fragging your own plane on a low level pass.
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Para-frag = frame rate killer.
Bronk
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There were probably multiple sizes of parafrags. I seem to recall something about a 250lb version. It would definitely NOT carry 60 of these. If it carried 60 of anything, they were "nuisance" bombs, meant to be scattered over an enemy airfield so that no operations could take place, and/or to destroy parked aircraft.
Again, not seeing much use for that.
250lb parafrags: You'd get 12 (going off a 3000lb bomb load), and you wouldn't be able to hit very accurately with them.
Say you drop a string, hit some, miss some, come around, and there's one building left up. You make a pass, but the inaccurate nature of the parafrag makes you miss... You come around again and again, but because it does not follow normal ballistics you cannot hit that single building.
The 75mm would be a lot more useful for shooting towns down than the parafrags would be.
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Man I'm going to start calling you guys Moriarty "Always with the negative waves man"
I want para frags. If we get the 75mm cannon how about some rounds filled with paint?? Scare the crap out of people and make pretty pictures. This is a GAME. It's supposed to be fun so why not have some fun stuff in it. OK so a para frag isn't accurate and it's not all that powerfull but it would be FUN to have it.
Quit being the buzz kill dude, lighten up:D
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My bet is the HE in the 75mm in the B-25 could pierce the top armour of a tank or at the least track it and kill the engine.
Then again, I have been wrong.
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Can a german 50kg bomb pierce the top of a tank if it lands directly on top of it?
If so, I'd imagine the 75mm might be able to (not counting being able to pull up afterwards!).
From memory I've always had to salvo 2-4 50kgs to get a kill on a panzer. That could just be my aim, though.
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I think the B25 would be cool. I fear though it will be eaten alive in action.
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Originally posted by 4deck
A26 I dont think your gonna see that type of weapon in the B25 but the a26 now theres a gv killer.
The A-26 would be just as potent against a GV as the B-25 would be.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The A-26 would be just as potent against a GV as the B-25 would be.
ack-ack
I agree with you on this Ack. Flown right any plane loaded with ords can be effective against gv's. A b25 hitting gv's will not get slaughtered... if they come in at 1k, yes they will, but it will still be effective against gv attacks.
Para-Frags are early versions of high-drag bombs. Wouldn't the bombsight be of WWII planes be figured into this as they dropped? If so, they would be effective in hitting specific targets but they would be like torpedos. They would have to be dropped from a certain alt & speed or else the drag would throw them off too much. They are used for just carpet bombing targets and clearing an area. So like Krusty said, some will hit, some will miss.
As far as a 75mm HE round hitting tanks, even if it is a Tiger and shot in the rear, it should knock out the engine with that blast. Or at least take out something else vital... maybe the amp for the 12" subwoofer. :D
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Originally posted by Sketch
As far as a 75mm HE round hitting tanks, even if it is a Tiger and shot in the rear, it should knock out the engine with that blast. Or at least take out something else vital... maybe the amp for the 12" subwoofer. :D
Go off-line up a panzer w/HE drive behind a tiger. Fire all your ammo.
Tell me what happens.
Bronk
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B-25 is too similar to the B-26 and A-20 to be of any use. Apart from the 75mm version, which would probably get boring when you realise you cant shoot that gun while pulling G.
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Originally posted by Krusty
It's got a tricycle landing gear >:D
Wouldn't it be nice to land by an enemy town, aim the nose at a building and pop it with 75mm?
(*insert evil grin here*)
OMG we havent even gotten it yet and pople are allready abuseing it,
but now that i think of it we could do that with 38's already couldnt we.....
and the P39 if we get it.
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not to mention that the B-25H was intended as an anti-maritime bomber not as an anti-tank attack plane.
ack-ack
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Could you even shoot a building if you landed? I thought you couldn't fire bomber guns on the ground. Or is that just at takeoff? That seems like a waste of time anyway, if you're in a bomber, it would make more sence to bomb it.
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Originally posted by Bronk
Go off-line up a panzer w/HE drive behind a tiger. Fire all your ammo.
Tell me what happens.
Bronk
I understand what your saying Bronk and I see where your coming from with this as I work with explosives every day... BUT, your telling me that a 75mm HE round fired at the rear or side of a tank would not do any damage? I am not saying your wrong, it is just one of those things I question in the game when you shoot a Tiger 5 times in the rear or side and get nothing.... even using AP rounds.
Not trying to butt heads with you bro, just trying to understand more of the games munitions compaired to 'real' life stuff.
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In Warbirds I used to occasionally take up a B-25H for buff hunting. I would dump all the bombs on the runway and climb forever. It was effective in a steep dive attack; one shot at point blank was very effective. I remember blowing the wing off of a B-17 once and I only hit his wingtip.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
The A-26 would be just as potent against a GV as the B-25 would be.
ack-ack
More so vs GV's.
A-26 Invader 6,000 pound ord options included:
1000 lb bombs (up to 4 internal)
500 lb bombs (up to 8 internal, 4 wing mounted)
250 lb bombs (up to 8 internal, 4 wing mounted)
100 lb bombs (up to 12 internal, 4 wing mounted)
5 inch rockets (up to 14, wing mounted)
2 - 230 gallon drop tanks
Largest gun package on B model was:
8 nose mounted .50 cal MGs X 400 rpg
6 wing mounted (internal) .50 cal MGs X 400 rpg
2 twin .50 barbettes (remote turrets, 1 gunner) with 500 rpg.
A-26 Invader is faster, with a better climb rate, and more maneuverable than a B-25 (and IL2, and most other heavy ground attack plane I can think of).
An A26B Invader with 8 X 500 lbs bombs, 14 X 5 inch rockets, and 14 forward firing .50's with 400 rpg would make life interesting for any GVrs. Be pretty good at deacking and vulching too.
A light (no ord) A-26 Invader would be a good buff hunter too. Maximum speed was 355mph at 15K feet. 425 mph maximum speed in a dive if running light. Service ceiling was only 22,100 feet, so high buffs could still avoid it. 14 X .50's will do a number on any target.
75mm Spud Gun
The first 30 A-26 Invaders delivered mounted 1 X 75mm cannon and 2 X .50's in the nose. These saw front line evaluation in the PTO and ETO. The evaluation which led to the 8 .50s in the nose becoming the standard later, as well as redesigned cockpit canopy, as well as internally mounted wing guns as opposed to gun pods (drag and reduction of airspeed issues with gun pods). Don't know if any of these first 30 planes ever saw combat with that spud gun though, or how they may have been refitted later. Only took a couple hours to change out the nose configuration of an Invader in the field.
Now, the 75mm in the Invader was manually fed from a 20 round ready rack by a loader sitting in a jump seat, and fired by the pilot. The 75mm in the B-25 was probably similar, and I have read where the use of the 75mm in the B-25 usually resulted in retiring the airframe after 15 to 20 rounds had been fired from it. The rivet holes actually started to oval out, and frames cracked. The Invader was a different design, and purpose built with the 75mm option (USAAF and USN requirement), but, as they did not stay with that cannon configuration, I'm not sure if the Invader suffered from the same airframe problems. In any case, they found mass use of many API fed .50 cal M2 MG's was much better in anti-shipping role than a single slow loaded 75mm was.
And it was mainly anti-shipping these were intended for, AFAIK. Not really meant for AT use. And 14 X 5 inch rockets would work well for that any ways.
No idea if HTC would even consider a spud gun in any plane in AHII.
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Ted, Pyro mentionned the 75mm as one of the reasons one would want the B25 in the game.
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Originally posted by moot
Ted, Pyro mentionned the 75mm as one of the reasons one would want the B25 in the game.
Didn't catch that one. Thanks. But, a B25, even with a 75mm, just not going to carry the votes away from a fighter in the popular vote, IMHO. I'm voting for and pushing the A-26 hard myself, but unless something unexpected happens, I expect it to lose out to a fighter. Just hoping for a good showing to help argument to get buff drivers another perk ride at SOME point in the future, besides the Arado.
If 75mm is all that, very early A-26's had them. They also could carry 2 torpedoes. Don't think they ever did either on a combat operation. So I guess it comes down to whether the fact that it was a fielded option is enough to add it to a particular plane's capabilities. I'd rather have the 14 X 5 inch rockets and the 14 X .50's of a Invader than 1 X 75mm manually loaded with 20 rounds and 6 or 8 X .50's anyways.
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Yeah, I saw that too. If there was a 75mm-gunned variant that was feasibly included with the other more common A26 variants, then strictly MA speaking, the A26 would steal at least some of B25's votes.