Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Willfly on March 28, 2007, 08:42:52 PM

Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: Willfly on March 28, 2007, 08:42:52 PM
We have all seen how HTC has now released a choice of airplanes that will be voted on. It has triggered some real fierce competition between groups of who can get the most people to support a certain plane. We have seen the G.55, Heinkel 111, and the F2A Brewster Buffalo...more are sure to come.

      It sometimes seems like a yelling contest of who can say "THAT PLANE SUCKS!!!:furious"  the most.

      I dont get it, some of us are lobbying because the amount of kills certain pilots get in some of these planes (As seen in MANY Brewster Buffalo endorsements) or the low number of these certain aircraft (Like how the G.55 manufacturing plants were bombed)

Well, before you get STRAIGHT TO THE CONCLUSION how bout' ya' quit poutin' and see how it happened by doing some research

     For Example, I found out from research that there are several variants of the B-25.
     The F2A Brewster Buffalo had numerous variants including the Finnish variant that proved excellent because of a tiny engine change in only 44 aircraft...which in turn, greatly improved performance. Roughly 5 American squadrons were issued these F2A's without knowing of the Finnish Modifications with great dismay(Found from research)

The G.55 was found from research to be an excellent interceptor for high-altitudes and was quote "Superior to the Me 109 and Fw 190" from Italian Pilots as they switched from from the G.55 to the german designed aircraft as G.55 production decreased due to numerous bombing (Inevitably) Plus its armament of 3x20mm and 2x12.7mm(.50 caliber) was adequate firepower

 To conclude, I am just saying that knowing about the aircraft you support and other aircraft is 'essential.' Simply saying "It sucks" is in all respects...weird... especially if you dont know a good load of imformation about whatever aircraft you are complimenting.

P.S. I do not have any intention of trying to defend any single lobbying thread for a particular aircraft.
P.P.S. As the pesky teacher brat used to say "Do your Research"
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: ROC on March 28, 2007, 09:02:11 PM
Nice effort WillFly, but in this game there are constants.

There will Always be someone arguing something.  Land Grabbers will argue with furballers.  Tanks will argue against fighter town.  Choices about planes will start an argument about What Choice.  No choice and they will argue Foul.

HT would make Far More Money charging per letter on this forum than they Every could on the game.

And the best part to all the arguments is this.  The Majority of the players don't even frequent these boards, the plane that is chosen is going to be for some completely different reason than any argument shown here.  

Oh, and for what it's worth, I voted for the A26 just to tick off the lobbyists, and told the exit pollers I voted for the russion Tu-Tu.  There gonna be demanding a Recount by the time this is over  :rofl
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: The Fugitive on March 28, 2007, 09:17:20 PM
I think research SUCKS !!!                                             Sorry had to say that :cool:


It doesn't matter, how or why people vote the way they do, whats important is that HTC is pulling everyone into the fold by having "US" decide the next plane. Making everyone feel like we are part of the team. :aok

Research, for what its worth is good. In this case however it can be biased any number of ways. Too many "he said", "they said" type of info out there to get a true picture. On top of that what one guys is looking for " a new hot rod", compared to the other guy, "fast ground leveling equipment", will skew the info as well.

All Im looking for is a new ride to try out !   :aok
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: hubsonfire on March 28, 2007, 09:55:45 PM
The war, as interesting as it is to discuss, was a far cry from AH. What works here wouldn't work there, and what worked there is pretty dull here.

Fly what you like, vote for what you want, and don't worry about all those other clowns. They're hopeless dweebs, and no amount of reasoning or logic will change them or their opinions. Pffft, tools.

;)
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: TinmanX on March 28, 2007, 10:00:52 PM
I just wanna thank HTC for providing me with a "don't care" option.

It's not like I truly don't care, it's just I am still going to be happy with AH2 no matter which airframe is added.

I can't wait until this circus pulls out of town.
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: Dichotomy on March 28, 2007, 10:02:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ROC
Nice effort WillFly, but in this game there are constants.

There will Always be someone arguing something.  Land Grabbers will argue with furballers.  Tanks will argue against fighter town.  Choices about planes will start an argument about What Choice.  No choice and they will argue Foul.

HT would make Far More Money charging per letter on this forum than they Every could on the game.

And the best part to all the arguments is this.  The Majority of the players don't even frequent these boards, the plane that is chosen is going to be for some completely different reason than any argument shown here.  

Oh, and for what it's worth, I voted for the A26 just to tick off the lobbyists, and told the exit pollers I voted for the russion Tu-Tu.  There gonna be demanding a Recount by the time this is over  :rofl


Avatars with sheep, foxes, and anything by hubs should not be allowed in the game or on this board because http://www.wikipedia.com/sheepandfoxavatarsandhubsonfirearemeaniepoopieheads proves I'm right so there :p

And if you think I'm wrong I'm going to throw a hissy fit and make fun of you in my sig.
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: hubsonfire on March 28, 2007, 10:09:03 PM
Cue the Wikifanboi parade!
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: ROC on March 28, 2007, 10:21:47 PM
Quote
Dichotomy
 :rofl
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: Iron_Cross on March 28, 2007, 10:41:59 PM
You are right, do your homework before you decide on anything.  Therefore my prediction as to wich plane they will next model is, the P-39.

Bombers will be eliminated, out of hand, simply because there is only a small minority of bomber enthusiasts.  The A-26 might hang on for a while, but as time wears on, the overwhelming majority of "fighter" enthusiasts will also put this one to bed.

The 410, will also be eliminated.  It is a great buff hunter and mud mover, but a dog when faced with actual fighters.

The "mystery" Japanese fighter, a grab bag with a couple of boobie prizes.  Quick analogy; carnivals show you the good stuff you "can" win and you focus on those prizes, but when you do win you get a cheap prettythang piece of dreck from under the counter.  Nobody will take the chance, or should.

Brewster; a fighter, but only a small minority of the AH population clamers for its inclusion. (The Finnish AH community, and I.)  It will fall because of the wholesale obscurity of the plane outside of Finland.

G-55; Excelent fighter, fantastic armament package, NOT AMERICAN.  That will get axed by the American voting majority.

There you have it, the main factors that will see the P-39 in the next release.
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: tedrbr on March 28, 2007, 11:22:24 PM
Nice write up Iron_Cross.

I concur.  The vagueness of the Russian bomber and Japanese fighter selection, as well as no stellar performers there, will kill them off.

The He-410?  How did this get here?  Night fighter, at best, if we had night and plane mounted radar, IIRC.

Buffalo?  Outdated by EW start.

He-111 and B-25 do not stand a chance against fighter masses voting.

Yak 3.  The air superiority fighter compared to the interceptor or ground attack planes..... but, IIRC, lighter fuel load.... which in the War Arena fuel settings would give it VERY short legs.  And ammo load pales in comparison to P-39 and G.55..... I doubt it can carry the vote.  Would be a fun little bird to fly though.

A-26 Invader may last a couple rounds due to B- models' 14 X .50's facing forward and 14 wing mounted 5 inch rocket ord option, but will eventually fall to a fighter.  Too bad.  Buff drivers need another perk ride.  Guess it's back to "bomb-and-bail" tactics.  Don't need the points.   "All your FH's are belong to us!"  Still, I'll press for this plane added.  And if they offered both B and C versions --- which is just a nose configuration -- you could get two planes for effort of one. Level medium penetration bomber/pathfinder and medium close support attack plane.

Oh, and so I don't completely hijack the thread:
Is this enough research into the subject? (http://forums.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198001)

Can you imagine A-26's lifting to defend a field along side IL2's when the FH's go down?  Or buff hunting with an Invader? A HO with 14 X .50's?


P-39 and G.55, I'll admit, are the strong contenders.  

If the P-39, it should at least be the Russian bird, with Russian skin, and placed in the Russian plane set.  2nd highest Allied Ace was a Russian flying the Airacobra.  Recognize the Lend Lease Act.  Plane saw more action with Russians than anyone else.  American plane set large enough, and getting Sherman Firefly already anyways.  

G.55 might be a surprise due to that loadout.  1 X 20mm X 250rpg hub cannon, 2 X 20mm X 200 rpg wing mounts, 2 MGs with another 300 rpg.  Reportedly a better flier than any 109 or 190.  Nice bomber interceptor.  Small ord loadout may even give it a ground role with all that cannon fire.  A lot of luffenwobble fans in the community too.  Limited overall production numbers may kill its chances though.


Which brings up a funny point: the plane's effect on The War arguments.  Pure production numbers used to select plane.  It's a game.   Besides, if production numbers were the key, there are about a half dozen TRAINERS that need to be added to the planeset, since that what all the pilots learned on.  How's THAT for an effect on the war effort?
* The Polikarpov U-2/Po-2 Trainer, over 22,000 produced, USSR
* The North American AT-6 Texan/Harvard, over 18,650 produced, used by USA, Canada, Australia, and Japan Single-engined trainer.
* Vultee BT-17/19 Valiant, 11,525 produced, USA Single-engined trainer
* Airspeed Oxford, 7,986 produced, Great Britain Twin-engined trainer & light transport
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: JAWS2003 on March 28, 2007, 11:33:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
If the P-39, it should at least be the Russian bird, with Russian skin, and placed in the Russian plane set.  . [/B]


So why not just give them one of their planes?
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: tedrbr on March 28, 2007, 11:40:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JAWS2003
So why not just give them one of their planes?


Only ones listed were the Pe-2 or Tu-2...... neither of them are going to carry the votes.
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: ROC on March 28, 2007, 11:42:18 PM
I have to dig up some old files off a hard drive on the shelf.  I think in Air Warrior the A-26 was actually classified as an attack fighter, and not a bomber.  That, next to the F6-F was the plane I flew most often.

Totally irrelevant to this game and topic, alternate reality of course.   But, on the level of simply a Fun Plane, that's a good one.
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: Wurger on March 29, 2007, 09:22:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr

The He-410?  How did this get here?  Night fighter, at best, if we had night and plane mounted radar, IIRC.



I have seen you call the 410 an He-410 in a couple of places, so wanted to correct your misconception.  It's actually an ME 410, and it was not a nightfighter, nor did it ever have any radar attached to it.  Not sure which nightfighter your thinking of (maybe the He219 - which would be awesome to get in AH btw), but the Me 410 is not it.  The 410 was a redesign of the ill-fated 210, which was itself a replacement for the 110.
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: Shuffler on March 29, 2007, 09:41:50 AM
(http://illusion.blox.pl/resource/flying_sheep_w_crows.gif)

HT has a secret balot for these.
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: tedrbr on March 29, 2007, 10:52:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ROC
I have to dig up some old files off a hard drive on the shelf.  I think in Air Warrior the A-26 was actually classified as an attack fighter, and not a bomber.  That, next to the F6-F was the plane I flew most often.

Totally irrelevant to this game and topic, alternate reality of course.   But, on the level of simply a Fun Plane, that's a good one.


U.S. Army Air Corps listed the mission profiles for the A-26B/C Invader as 'A High performance medium bomber/attack plane (also referred to as (Ground) Attack Fighter, Close Support Attack Fighter, and Light Bomber.'   Would make a good bomber destroyer too.

B model originally designed with 6 different nose gun configurations with 2 to 6 (later8) .50 cal MG's, 1 or 2 - 37mm, and 1 - 75mm cannons.  These could be swapped around in a couple hours.  The nose on the B model and C model could be swapped as well.  Ord could include rockets, drop tanks, 100 lb to 1000 lb bombs, and even 2 torpedoes.   It was a multi-use aircraft intended to (and did after the war) replace the A-20's, B-26's, and B-25's.

A versatile, multi-role, high performance, perk-worthy buff ride.  FUN.
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: Dichotomy on March 29, 2007, 11:51:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire
Cue the Wikifanboi parade!


"Dichotomy smells like hot garbage."

:rofl
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: Bodhi on March 29, 2007, 11:59:33 AM
I personally think that saying "It sucks" about any plane is rediculous.  All WW2 aircraft eventually have a place in game, except maybe unarmed trainers unless they start some sort of flying cadet program.  That said, I also think the aircraft that had the most impact on the war is definitely a huge factor in their inclusion in the game sequentially.  That and that alone is what should be the driving factor in my opinion.
Title: Re: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: Hap on March 29, 2007, 12:37:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Willfly a yelling contest of who can say "THAT PLANE SUCKS!!!:furious"[/B]


It's a Darwinian thing on these boards.  Survival of the loudest, rudest, and sometimes foulest.
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: Hap on March 29, 2007, 12:45:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Iron_Cross There you have it, the main factors that will see the P-39 in the next release.


I hope it isn't as cut and dried as all that.
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 29, 2007, 12:50:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ROC
I have to dig up some old files off a hard drive on the shelf.  I think in Air Warrior the A-26 was actually classified as an attack fighter, and not a bomber.  That, next to the F6-F was the plane I flew most often.

Totally irrelevant to this game and topic, alternate reality of course.   But, on the level of simply a Fun Plane, that's a good one.


Yep, in AW it was listed as an Attack/Fighter plane.


ack-ack
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: LYNX on March 29, 2007, 05:13:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Iron_Cross
You are right, do your homework before you decide on anything.  Therefore my prediction as to wich plane they will next model is, the P-39.

Bombers will be eliminated, out of hand, simply because there is only a small minority of bomber enthusiasts.  The A-26 might hang on for a while, but as time wears on, the overwhelming majority of "fighter" enthusiasts will also put this one to bed.

The 410, will also be eliminated.  It is a great buff hunter and mud mover, but a dog when faced with actual fighters.

The "mystery" Japanese fighter, a grab bag with a couple of boobie prizes.  Quick analogy; carnivals show you the good stuff you "can" win and you focus on those prizes, but when you do win you get a cheap prettythang piece of dreck from under the counter.  Nobody will take the chance, or should.

Brewster; a fighter, but only a small minority of the AH population clamers for its inclusion. (The Finnish AH community, and I.)  It will fall because of the wholesale obscurity of the plane outside of Finland.

G-55; Excelent fighter, fantastic armament package, NOT AMERICAN.  That will get axed by the American voting majority.

There you have it, the main factors that will see the P-39 in the next release.


I read the write ups.  Voted for the 111 for scenarios but knowing full well, as explained above, the p39 is the over all vote catcher even though it's out classed by the KI & G55
Title: Re: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 29, 2007, 05:18:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Willfly
We have all seen how HTC has now released a choice of airplanes that will be voted on. It has triggered some real fierce competition between groups of who can get the most people to support a certain plane. We have seen the G.55, Heinkel 111, and the F2A Brewster Buffalo...more are sure to come.

      It sometimes seems like a yelling contest of who can say "THAT PLANE SUCKS!!!:furious"  the most.

     


IOn the 5 years I've been here if I've learned nothing I've learned there isnt a singlew plane in the game that "sucks"
Outside of the goon there isnt a single plane n the game that kills cant be had in.

If there is a plane you cant get kills in in here outside of the C47

It isnt the plane that sucks.
Best take a look at the driver
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 29, 2007, 05:27:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Iron_Cross
You are right, do your homework before you decide on anything.  Therefore my prediction as to wich plane they will next model is, the P-39.

Bombers will be eliminated, out of hand, simply because there is only a small minority of bomber enthusiasts.  The A-26 might hang on for a while, but as time wears on, the overwhelming majority of "fighter" enthusiasts will also put this one to bed.

The 410, will also be eliminated.  It is a great buff hunter and mud mover, but a dog when faced with actual fighters.

The "mystery" Japanese fighter, a grab bag with a couple of boobie prizes.  Quick analogy; carnivals show you the good stuff you "can" win and you focus on those prizes, but when you do win you get a cheap prettythang piece of dreck from under the counter.  Nobody will take the chance, or should.

Brewster; a fighter, but only a small minority of the AH population clamers for its inclusion. (The Finnish AH community, and I.)  It will fall because of the wholesale obscurity of the plane outside of Finland.

G-55; Excelent fighter, fantastic armament package, NOT AMERICAN.  That will get axed by the American voting majority.

There you have it, the main factors that will see the P-39 in the next release.


Good post. Spot on
I agree 39 ist probably going to win. and I bet by not a small morgin either.

I think they should just put in the 39 outright since its going to win anyway and let us vote for one of the others

Exactly why I'm voting against it is its just another American fighter..
Yes yes I know it was used by the ruskies but it was still an american fighter nonetheless.
Title: Re: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of researc
Post by: Masherbrum on March 29, 2007, 05:44:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Willfly
To conclude, I am just saying that knowing about the aircraft you support and other aircraft is 'essential.' Simply saying "It sucks" is in all respects...weird... especially if you dont know a good load of imformation about whatever aircraft you are complimenting.

P.S. I do not have any intention of trying to defend any single lobbying thread for a particular aircraft.
P.P.S. As the pesky teacher brat used to say "Do your Research"


The IAR 81c is the best plane not in AH.
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: Rino on March 29, 2007, 05:48:56 PM
I was going to say something nasty bout the whaa whaa it's US
crowd, but decided it was pointless.  

      I'm voting for the P-39 for alot of reasons, but mostly because of
Earl Miller, a P-39 driver in North Africa and Italy who later transitioned
to the P-47.  I'd like to see a 350FG skin in AH2 :D
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: tedrbr on March 29, 2007, 05:53:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
.....Exactly why I'm voting against it is its just another American fighter..
Yes yes I know it was used by the ruskies but it was still an american fighter nonetheless.


I push the Invader of course, with the Buff Drivers Need Another Perk Ride Platform.

Final 4 will include P-39, He-111, B-25, and a fourth I can't predict now..... simple name recognition from game players that don't monitor the forums, and not too familiar with those planes before they vote.

P-39 will win.... at which point I'll at least push for it to be put in Russian plane set with Russian skin.  Recognize Lend Lease Program, Russians got far more out of it than Americans did, and shout out to Aleksandr Ivanovich Pokryshkin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Ivanovich_Pokryshkin), the second highest scoring Allied Ace of WWII, who flew P-39's (and later P-63's).

Possible senerios for the P-39 are better on the Eastern Front than Western.
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 29, 2007, 06:41:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rino
I was going to say something nasty bout the whaa whaa it's US
crowd, but decided it was pointless.  

      I'm voting for the P-39 for alot of reasons, but mostly because of
Earl Miller, a P-39 driver in North Africa and Italy who later transitioned
to the P-47.  I'd like to see a 350FG skin in AH2 :D


Im an american and I agree. American planes are grossly overrepresented while other areas are underrepresented
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 29, 2007, 06:45:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by tedrbr
I push the Invader of course, with the Buff Drivers Need Another Perk Ride Platform.

 


the vader would probably be the one ride that would get me back into bombers.

I wholeheartedly agree the buff drivers need another perk platform.
the 234 is probably the least used plane in the game.
They could unperk it and I bet it still would remain the least used plane in the game. LOL
Title: Do some research and quit saying "IT SUCKS!" without doing a good load of research
Post by: -CodyC on March 29, 2007, 07:04:46 PM
I agree with the fact that America is well represented in all aspects of the game.  Also the allies do tend to have a superiority in all around performance of fighters and bombers.  While i know some can do great things in axis aircraft, allies have the numbers and advantage.  I think the G.55 or a jap aircraft is needed.  Russian bomber?  I guess it would add something to the game.  I see it helping in only scenarios.

G.55 and P39 will get major usage in scenarios and MAs.  The G.55 may not get as much in scenarios but it will at least make an attempt at leveling playing fields for high alt fights.

I personally will not vote for an American plane, we have plenty of representation.

lwcody