Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on March 29, 2007, 04:04:22 PM
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I think he's got an answer for the Middle East! :rofl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3WnpUZFEyA
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Hell I've been saying that for years, just no one listens to me so.......
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that is a good idea:D
lets finish this **** war!:D
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Patton had a girls voice in real life. Thats one of the reasons he cussed so much, to counter his high pitched voice.
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^^ Judge a man by his actions, not by appearance or his voice.
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Sounds good to me! :aok
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
Patton had a girls voice in real life. Thats one of the reasons he cussed so much, to counter his high pitched voice.
and general Grant was a drunk, whats your point?
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That guy does a great Patton (err... a great George C. Scott doing Patton) either way that was pretty funny :aok
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sounded more like Scott playing Air Force General Buck Turgidson in dr strangelove.
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My grandfather actually met Patton during war games in Louisiana. He was a Msgt assigned to an artillery group. Anyway, Patton managed to get his tanks caught on a piece of ground with a ravine on one side, and the artillery tubes on the other (I believe they were 155mm, thats what they were on the island my grandfather was assigned to). The referees declared all of Pattons tanks destroyed by artillery fire.
After the games were over, Patton was overheard saying that they would have won if real ammunition had been used.
So as John9001 asked, whats my point?
(1) The actor doesn't sound like Patton at all
(2) I have trouble getting excited about following a destructive doctrine from a long dead General who ran into the same problems in real war that he had been exposed to in war games.
I apologize if you have low self esteem and my modest criticism of Patton upset you.
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so patton lost a war game, how did he do against the germans in a real war?
and why do you think i have low self esteem and what does my self esteem have to do with anything.
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Originally posted by AquaShrimp
My grandfather actually met Patton during war games in Louisiana. He was a Msgt assigned to an artillery group. Anyway, Patton managed to get his tanks caught on a piece of ground with a ravine on one side, and the artillery tubes on the other (I believe they were 155mm, thats what they were on the island my grandfather was assigned to). The referees declared all of Pattons tanks destroyed by artillery fire.
After the games were over, Patton was overheard saying that they would have won if real ammunition had been used.
So as John9001 asked, whats my point?
(1) The actor doesn't sound like Patton at all
(2) I have trouble getting excited about following a destructive doctrine from a long dead General who ran into the same problems in real war that he had been exposed to in war games.
I apologize if you have low self esteem and my modest criticism of Patton upset you.
Patton's win loss record speaks for itself. He was pretty much spot on with regards to Stalin as well.
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To bad there will never be another Patton. I would love to meet a man like him. Loves war, loves history, and loves to curse.
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Originally posted by VooWho
To bad there will never be another Patton. I would love to meet a man like him. Loves war, loves history, and loves to curse.
Well he did believe in reincarnation didn't he?
Maybe you already did.
:noid :noid :noid :noid
Bronk
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Hey, what's up men it's me patton, stalin is a pig****er
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He shoulda made that speech right after Colbert's trashing of Bush at the congessional dinner..Woulda brought down the house!
:rofl
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Originally posted by Engine
Hey, what's up men it's me patton, stalin is a pig****er
:rofl
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Patton was a total pompous prettythang. If you want to read about a general who was awesome, look up Terry Allen. Patton & Montgomery couldn't stand him (which is almost enough reason alone to love this guy). Allen was the first in an era where you made it on your own merit, instead who you knew. He was ridiculed for incorporating night operations into his fighting.
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When did the western nations lose their balls.
I don't think we even have go to back that long; Reagan would have over flown Iran with a flight of B-52s and the hostages would have been back the next day.
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Great example Nshizawa; Reagan gave Iran weapons in exchange for hostages. For all his flamboyant posturing Reagan was a total pushover.
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Viking,
Don't confuse them with facts.
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Originally posted by Viking
Great example Nshizawa; Reagan gave Iran weapons in exchange for hostages. For all his flamboyant posturing Reagan was a total pushover.
The hostages were released the day Reagan was inaugurated in 1981. The "Iran-Contra scandal" happened much later. Unrelated incidents.
An intelligent person with a desire to portray Reagan as being weak would know that the withdrawal from Lebanon after the Marine barracks was bombed is an example of Reagan in a weak moment.
However, you could also ask Quadaffi how weak he felt Reagan was, after Reagan bombed the crap out of the yo-yo.
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Originally posted by Hap
Viking,
Don't confuse them with facts.
He'd have to have facts, have them in order, and know how to use them. Don't let that stop you from humping his ankle and cheering him on though.
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Oh I think the facts support my previous post quite well thank you.
In the late 1970s and early 1980s, the Middle East faced frequent hostage-taking incidents by organizations. In 1979, Iranian students took hostage 63 employees of the United States embassy in Iran. On January 20, 1981, the day Ronald Reagan became President, the hostages were freed following the Algiers Accords. Hostage taking in the Middle East did not end there, however. In 1983, members of Al-Dawa ("The Call"), an exiled Iraqi political party turned militant organization, were imprisoned for their part in a series of truck bombs in Kuwait. In response to the imprisonment, Hezbollah, an ally of Al-Dawa, took 30 Western hostages, six of whom were American. Hezbollah demanded the release of the prisoners for these hostages. Members of the Reagan Administration claim they believed that by selling arms to Iran, Iran would influence the Hezbollah kidnappers in Lebanon to release their hostages. At the time, Iran was in the midst of the Iran-Iraq War and could find few western nations willing to supply it with weapons. The sale of arms would also, according to National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane, improve strained relations with Iran. For that reason, weapons were transferred to Iran.
Michael Ledeen, a consultant of Robert McFarlane, asked Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres for help in the sale of arms to Iran. The general idea behind the plan was for Israel to ship weapons to Iran, then the US would reimburse Israel with the same weapons. The Israeli government required that the sale of arms meet high level approval from the United States government, and when Robert McFarlane convinced them that the U.S. government approved the sale, Israel obliged by agreeing to sell the arms. Reagan approved McFarlane's idea to reach out to Iran on July 18, 1985 while in a hospital bed recovering from cancer surgery. In July 1985, Israel sent American-made BGM-71 TOW (Tube-launched, Optically-tracked, Wire-guided) anti-tank missiles to Iran through an arms dealer named Manucher Ghorbanifar, a friend of Iran's Prime Minister. One hostage, reverend Benjamin Weir was subsequently released; despite the fact that arms were being sold to Iran, only Weir was released. This resulted in the failure of Ledeen's plan with only three shipments through Israel.
Subsequent dealings
Robert McFarlane resigned in December 1985. He was replaced by Admiral John Poindexter. On the day of McFarlane's resignation, Oliver North, a military aide to the United States National Security Council (NSC), proposed a new plan for selling arms to Iran. This time, there were two new ideas. Instead of selling arms through Israel, the sale was to be direct. Second, the proceeds from the sale would go to the Contras at a markup. Oliver North wanted a $15 million markup, while contracted Iranian arms broker Manucher Ghorbanifar added a 41% markup of his own. Other members of the NSC were in favor of North's plan. John Poindexter authorized the plan, and it went into effect.
At first, the Iranians refused to buy the arms at the inflated price because of the excessive markup imposed by North and Ghorbanifar. In February 1986, 1000 TOW missiles were shipped to Iran. From May to November 1986, there were additional shipments of miscellaneous weapons and parts. Reagan claimed that the total of all arms sales was less than a planeload.
Aftermath
Oliver North and John Poindexter were indicted on multiple charges on March 16, 1988. North, indicted on 16 counts, was found guilty by a jury of three minor counts. The convictions were vacated on appeal on the grounds that North's Fifth Amendment rights may have been violated by the indirect use of his testimony to Congress which had been given under a grant of immunity. In 1990, Poindexter was convicted on several felony counts of lying to Congress, obstruction of justice, conspiracy, and altering and destroying documents pertinent to the investigation. His convictions were also overturned on appeal on similar grounds. The Independent Counsel, Lawrence E. Walsh, chose not to re-try North or Poindexter. Weinberger was indicted for lying to the Independent Counsel but was later pardoned by President George H.W. Bush.
Faced with undeniable evidence of his involvement in the scandal, Reagan expressed regret regarding the situation at a nationally televised White House press conference on Ash Wednesday, March 4, 1987. Responding to questions, Reagan stated that his previous assertions that the U.S. did not trade arms for hostages were incorrect. He also stated that the Vice President knew of the plan.
Reagan survived the scandal, and his approval ratings returned to previous levels; as the scandal broke in 1986, "Reagan's approval rating plummeted to 46%", but he later "finished strong with a December 1988 Gallup poll recording a 63% approval rating".
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Originally posted by Viking
Oh I think the facts support my previous post quite well thank you.
i will summarize, america bad , norway good. is that close enough?
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No.
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Originally posted by Viking
Oh I think the facts support my previous post quite well thank you.
In the late 1970s and early 1980s, the Middle East faced frequent hostage-taking incidents by organizations. In 1979, Iranian students took hostage 63 employees of the United States embassy in Iran. On January 20, 1981, the day Ronald Reagan became President, the hostages were freed following the Algiers Accords. Hostage taking in the Middle East did not end there, however. In 1983, members of Al-Dawa ("The Call"), an exiled Iraqi political party turned militant organization, were imprisoned for their part in a series of truck bombs in Kuwait. In response to the imprisonment, Hezbollah, an ally of Al-Dawa, took 30 Western hostages, six of whom were American. Hezbollah demanded the release of the prisoners for these hostages. Members of the Reagan Administration claim they believed that by selling arms to Iran, Iran would influence the Hezbollah kidnappers in Lebanon to release their hostages. At the time, Iran was in the midst of the Iran-Iraq War and could find few western nations willing to supply it with weapons. The sale of arms would also, according to National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane, improve strained relations with Iran. For that reason, weapons were transferred to Iran.
Michael Ledeen, a consultant of Robert McFarlane, asked Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres for help in the sale of arms to Iran. The general idea behind the plan was for Israel to ship weapons to Iran, then the US would reimburse Israel with the same weapons. The Israeli government required that the sale of arms meet high level approval from the United States government, and when Robert McFarlane convinced them that the U.S. government approved the sale, Israel obliged by agreeing to sell the arms. Reagan approved McFarlane's idea to reach out to Iran on July 18, 1985 while in a hospital bed recovering from cancer surgery. In July 1985, Israel sent American-made BGM-71 TOW (Tube-launched, Optically-tracked, Wire-guided) anti-tank missiles to Iran through an arms dealer named Manucher Ghorbanifar, a friend of Iran's Prime Minister. One hostage, reverend Benjamin Weir was subsequently released; despite the fact that arms were being sold to Iran, only Weir was released. This resulted in the failure of Ledeen's plan with only three shipments through Israel.
Subsequent dealings
Robert McFarlane resigned in December 1985. He was replaced by Admiral John Poindexter. On the day of McFarlane's resignation, Oliver North, a military aide to the United States National Security Council (NSC), proposed a new plan for selling arms to Iran. This time, there were two new ideas. Instead of selling arms through Israel, the sale was to be direct. Second, the proceeds from the sale would go to the Contras at a markup. Oliver North wanted a $15 million markup, while contracted Iranian arms broker Manucher Ghorbanifar added a 41% markup of his own. Other members of the NSC were in favor of North's plan. John Poindexter authorized the plan, and it went into effect.
At first, the Iranians refused to buy the arms at the inflated price because of the excessive markup imposed by North and Ghorbanifar. In February 1986, 1000 TOW missiles were shipped to Iran. From May to November 1986, there were additional shipments of miscellaneous weapons and parts. Reagan claimed that the total of all arms sales was less than a planeload.
Aftermath
Oliver North and John Poindexter were indicted on multiple charges on March 16, 1988. North, indicted on 16 counts, was found guilty by a jury of three minor counts. The convictions were vacated on appeal on the grounds that North's Fifth Amendment rights may have been violated by the indirect use of his testimony to Congress which had been given under a grant of immunity. In 1990, Poindexter was convicted on several felony counts of lying to Congress, obstruction of justice, conspiracy, and altering and destroying documents pertinent to the investigation. His convictions were also overturned on appeal on similar grounds. The Independent Counsel, Lawrence E. Walsh, chose not to re-try North or Poindexter. Weinberger was indicted for lying to the Independent Counsel but was later pardoned by President George H.W. Bush.
Faced with undeniable evidence of his involvement in the scandal, Reagan expressed regret regarding the situation at a nationally televised White House press conference on Ash Wednesday, March 4, 1987. Responding to questions, Reagan stated that his previous assertions that the U.S. did not trade arms for hostages were incorrect. He also stated that the Vice President knew of the plan.
Reagan survived the scandal, and his approval ratings returned to previous levels; as the scandal broke in 1986, "Reagan's approval rating plummeted to 46%", but he later "finished strong with a December 1988 Gallup poll recording a 63% approval rating".
I'm still pissed he sold F-16s to Norway.:furious
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Yes how dare he REARM the VIKINGS! :mad:
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Originally posted by Viking
Yes how dare he REARM the VIKINGS! :mad:
Sailing Norsemen were bad enough, Ronnie gave em wings.:cry