Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Husky01 on March 30, 2007, 10:32:44 AM
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Man I thought it would at least go to round number 2. O well, looks like a American plane will win due to popularity.
sigh
:(
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Was there any doubt an American plane will win.
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Well, who wants a mid-war plane with 3 X 20mm X 200-250rpg, 2 X 12.7mm X 300 rpg, a speed of 385 mph at 22,965.88 feet, a 41,666 ft service ceiling, that could out fly most 109's and 190's anyways.
No one knew what it was.
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True
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Originally posted by Nshizawa
Was there any doubt an American plane will win.
Any.
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Originally posted by Nshizawa
Was there any doubt an American plane will win.
Unfortunately, I'm thinking that American plane will be the B-25.
Don't know if enough players in the game know the P-39 or A-26.
P-39 at least can be argued to be placed in Russian plane-set, with Russian skin, as it was more important a plane for them than U.S. Lend Lease. 2nd highest allied scoring ace was a Russian in a P-39. I could accept that.
A-26 at least gives the buff drivers another perk plane other than the Arado.
But the B-25? Midway between the B-26 and B-24 in capabilities. Widespread use during WWII and EW plane, sure, but......Yawn. Doolittle Raid? Don't see CV-launch as an option or even a decent SEA senerio (you B-25's will fly in low on the deck, Japanese players will pretend they don't know you are coming.....yeah...). Doesn't really bring anything new to the game in a big way.
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Originally posted by Husky01
O well, looks like a American plane will win due to popularity.
sigh
:(
Ummm.....
Isnt it supposed to work that way in an election? You know, "popular vote"?
I'm sure that at some point, HT will give us some planes "for our own good", regardless what the majority would have voted for. I wonder if the "vote" is a way to give the majority a "thank you" for hanging in during the long drought of new airframes.
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I would say that there were a few other issues which went against it getting voted in.
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Originally posted by Simaril
Ummm.....
Isnt it supposed to work that way in an election? You know, "popular vote"?
I'm sure that at some point, HT will give us some planes "for our own good", regardless what the majority would have voted for. I wonder if the "vote" is a way to give the majority a "thank you" for hanging in during the long drought of new airframes.
The problem with popular votes is often the majority of the voters don't know anything about their options. Seeing the G.55 cut in the first round has me starting to believe this to be the case this time.
I didn't expect G.55 to beat out P-39 in the long run, but I'm starting to think P-39 won't make cut either. I think it will come down to He-111 and B-25, based on name recognition. I further think both would be LW hangar queens.
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yep gonna come down to how many guys on aces high no nothing about the planes but know the B-25 from the movies.
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With all the "Vote G55" avatar's made I thought it would be a sure fire win.
:rolleyes: :aok
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Well I guess the forums dont represent the majority. Like alot of peopl thought the Gr would go further without the avators and noise made about it. But guess majority of people esp. in squads check those forums before this one or the suqads voted as a whole for an aircraft.
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whats I find funny is how useless some of the birds are going to be. The b-25 fills no real role other then scenario's. The 111 is a flying drone and the 410 will have some appeal for about a week before everyone goes back to the 110G2 or Mosquito. The Yak-3 will have about a 2 week shelf life, after that everyone but the current yak drivers will go back to their old rides.
I'm suprised a bit the G.55 went so soon but thats the reality you face. It's not an "american ride" thing as much as simple ignorance regarding other options. What I found suprising is that we lost alot of the fighters. I think that reflects the overall deterioration of skill levels and increasing popularity of toolshedding.
I'm not a big brewster fan (only since the EWA/MWA is so dead) but to see the japanese fighter option go is sad....3-4 real good possibilies there as well. So you really have 3 "targets" (410/111/B-25) A wannabe furball ride (Yak-3){good plane however} mixed in with a wolf in sheeps clothing (A-26) and the iron dog (which I bet has a better k/d ratio then the yak 3 when both get in the game){not one VVS guards unit flew the yak-3 that I know of}.
Hopefully we'll get the A-26 or P-39.........
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hmm american game..huge american fan base...hmmmmm....was there any doubt? for good or bad its democracy at work
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Im surprised G.55 only went this far as well to that fact of its speed and guns. Italian iron need more birds not saying I would fly it as there is nothing that beats the trusty ol' 38 but the Italian planeset needs more of a selection.
Guess need to vote for the A-26 since the B-25 has the B for bomber in its model id unless its the B25 with all the 50s in the nose. :)
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Whats gonna be funny is when everyone that wants the B25 dosn't get there giant cannon on the front so they will cry a about it.
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I just hope it is NOT the B25. The plane that is least needed IMO.
It is sad to see the G55 go so soon (I didn't vote for it though, sticking with my 410 although I know that won't make it either).
My guess is it will come down to the B25, A26 and the P39 (the He111 won't stand a chance).
The B25 is probarly gonna be the winner :(
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This whole thing's been sad, really.
It would have been better if HTC had just suprised us with a new plane, instead of putting it to vote.
If you look at some of the bashing/flaming that's been going on in here, you'd think that we were splitting the Arena's again.
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Originally posted by humble
… and the 410 will have some appeal for about a week before everyone goes back to the 110G2 or Mosquito.
I doubt that since the Me 410 has more guns and carry more bombs … and is faster than both the 110G and Mossie FB.VI.
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can the 410 fight?
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I sincerely hope so.
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The 110 can fight extremely well. The 410 should be able to do the same if not better. It would probarly turn worse though but I am not sure.
Due to the nature of the fights in AH what would work in real life may not work for the AH MA fights.
It would still be a great plane though and I'd definatly fly it.
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If modelled correctly, it shouldn't stand a chance against a fighter. From what I know, it wasn't maneuverable... it'd be a good weapon platform against bombers and a good jabo.
I voted for Yak 3 this round, but I'm really indecisive between it and the Me 410. Yak 3 has a really low range, it should be around 15 minutes with 100%... on the other hand, the Hornisse won't be good for fighting, but it should be really fun for porking and attacking bombers... oh, well, neither of them will win, I know.
If I were to vote for a bomber, it would be the He111, it's a too big gap in the planeset... we have enough medium american bombers.
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:D
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"wasn't maneuverable" is a very subjective statement. One thing to remember about all WWII land based aircraft is that they all had similar landing speeds, and therefore had similar wing loading. Similar being the difference between a Spitfire and a Fw 190 or so. Since the Me 410 could carry a heavy load of ordinance and guns it stands to reason that a light configuration, say only two cannon and no bombs would have a rather low wing loading.
History tells us that the 110 "wasn't maneuverable " either, but we know that in the MA with a light fuel load and internal guns only the 110 can turn with most planes. I once out-turned and shot down a P-38 in a Ju88 with no bombs and only 25% fuel. That was fun.
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Geez another whine thread....just what this BBS needed. :aok
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HHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAJJJJJJJJJJ JJJOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Viking
I doubt that since the Me 410 has more guns and carry more bombs … and is faster than both the 110G and Mossie FB.VI.
The basic loadout is just 2x20mm & 2 x 12.7. So it doesnt have more guns and more bombs. The mossie and 110G2 both seem to have a better combination of base guns and ord's (from what I can read). The 110 was lighter by a significant margin and had much better wing loading. The 410 only carries 2200 lbs of bombs so I dont see the difference (doesnt the 110 carry 2 x 500k?). Its not all that much faster (20mph or so??).
So to me you get a plane thats a bit faster but turns worse....basically its a target. I'd bet its closer to an A-20 then a 110 turnfight wise without the firepower the 110 has.
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Originally posted by Wilbus
The 110 can fight extremely well. The 410 should be able to do the same if not better. It would probarly turn worse though but I am not sure.
Due to the nature of the fights in AH what would work in real life may not work for the AH MA fights.
It would still be a great plane though and I'd definatly fly it.
The plane is almost 24,000 lbs...even taking of 2200 for ords its 21,500+...
so wingloading is roughly 55 lbs/sqf....the A-20 by comparision was just under 40 lbs/sqf {about same as Mosquito}. The 410 is a target drone. If they model it right it'll be a total flop in the MA......
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I see Humble is spreading his usual nonsense in other threads than those specifically for the Me 410.
Originally posted by Viking
Your information is of the … usual quality (a word I find difficult to use in this context). The Me 410 had an empty weight of 13,000 lbs (6100 kg) and a max take-off weight of 23,480 lbs. In comparison the P-38L had an empty weight of 12,780 lbs and a max. take-off weight of 21,600 lbs.
The Me 410 had a wing area of 390 sq. feet.
The P-38L had a wing area of 327.5 sq. feet.
The Me 410 has more power and lower wing loading than the P-38L.
[Edit: Spelling]
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WilBuZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Hiyas Mate!!:aok
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Originally posted by Viking
"wasn't maneuverable" is a very subjective statement. One thing to remember about all WWII land based aircraft is that they all had similar landing speeds, and therefore had similar wing loading. Similar being the difference between a Spitfire and a Fw 190 or so. Since the Me 410 could carry a heavy load of ordinance and guns it stands to reason that a light configuration, say only two cannon and no bombs would have a rather low wing loading.
History tells us that the 110 "wasn't maneuverable " either, but we know that in the MA with a light fuel load and internal guns only the 110 can turn with most planes. I once out-turned and shot down a P-38 in a Ju88 with no bombs and only 25% fuel. That was fun.
From what I've read, the 110G2 had a wingloading of 205.6 Kg/sq.m, while the 410A-1 has 266.7 Kg/sq.m... of course this figures are for MTOW, and with less weight the 410 will have a lighter wingloading, but I guess that means the 410 had to be less maneuverable of a 110... that's what I meant.
I've also read that british pilots who tested it said that controls were sluggish, stall was sudden and abrupt and, in sharp turns it has the tendency of dropping wing. So, it'd not be easy to maneuver in combat against single engined fighters, unlike the 110 we have now.
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Originally posted by humble
The basic loadout is just 2x20mm & 2 x 12.7. So it doesnt have more guns and more bombs. The mossie and 110G2 both seem to have a better combination of base guns and ord's (from what I can read.
The Me 410 could carry two 500 kg bombs in the bomb bay, and later they added two under-wing shackles for an additional two 500 kg bombs. That’s twice the 110G’s bomb load. Alternatively the Me 410 could carry six or eight 20mm cannon in addition to the external bombs.
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Viking, wasn't that 4x50 kg bombs under wings?
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
From what I've read, the 110G2 had a wingloading of 205.6 Kg/sq.m, while the 410A-1 has 266.7 Kg/sq.m... of course this figures are for MTOW, and with less weight the 410 will have a lighter wingloading, but I guess that means the 410 had to be less maneuverable of a 110... that's what I meant.
I've also read that british pilots who tested it said that controls were sluggish, stall was sudden and abrupt and, in sharp turns it has the tendency of dropping wing. So, it'd not be easy to maneuver in combat against single engined fighters, unlike the 110 we have now.
Oh the Bf 110G is lighter (2000-3000 lbs) and does have a lower wing loading than the Me-410, but the Me 410 has about 600 hp more. I don’t expect the 410 to be a better turner than the 110G, but I don’t expect it to be much worse either. In any case I don’t see why the 110G doesn’t out-turn the P-38L in Aces High, since the P-38 weighs more and has much less wing area. Perhaps the same reason … more power?
Also I have a feeling the 110G will be a different aircraft in terms of performance after it is updated, like almost all the other updated planes.
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Originally posted by Gianlupo
Viking, wasn't that 4x50 kg bombs under wings?
They could take those too yes, but I've read in litterature and on the Luftwaffe Resource centre: "Two 1,102 lb. (500kg) Bombs And External Racks for two 1,102 lb. (500kg) Bombs"
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You guys think too much, please stop, it frightens me.:eek:
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:rofl
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Originally posted by aztec
You guys think too much, please stop, it frightens me.:eek:
Yes, let nature take it's place and let mob/horde rule! :)
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Originally posted by tedrbr
The problem with popular votes is often the majority of the voters don't know anything about their options. Seeing the G.55 cut in the first round has me starting to believe this to be the case this time.
I didn't expect G.55 to beat out P-39 in the long run, but I'm starting to think P-39 won't make cut either. I think it will come down to He-111 and B-25, based on name recognition. I further think both would be LW hangar queens.
I have been amazed by the number of posts in which you denigrate
the knowledge or intelligence of non-BBS posters. Just because someone
doesn't post here doesn't make them clueless or uninformed.
Not saying it's universal, but implying that everyone who isn't in the
"clique" is somehow dim is just plain insulting.
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Originally posted by Viking
I see Humble is spreading his usual nonsense in other threads than those specifically for the Me 410.
The only "nonsense" I see is yours. I'm simply asking questions. I used the standard criteria to determine wingloading. All planes function better when "light". You can't have 8x20mm+ords+DT's and be light.....sure give it all up and go with 2x20mm and light fuel load out...
and you'll still have a plane thats around 16,000 or 17,000 lbs...
So at best its got a wingloading over 40 lbs...
A "light" me-110 (12,000) comes in around 28 lbs. 410 is going to be a dog in a fighter role.....
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Originally posted by humble
The only "nonsense" I see is yours. I'm simply asking questions.
Your previous post was not a question it was nonsense:
Originally posted by humble
The plane is almost 24,000 lbs...even taking of 2200 for ords its 21,500+...
so wingloading is roughly 55 lbs/sqf....the A-20 by comparision was just under 40 lbs/sqf {about same as Mosquito}. The 410 is a target drone. If they model it right it'll be a total flop in the MA......
And now you have revised your weight estimate down to 16-17,000 lbs since I educated you. Something I’m getting tired of btw.
Originally posted by humble
and you'll still have a plane thats around 16,000 or 17,000 lbs...
So at best its got a wingloading over 40 lbs...
So you’re now saying that a Me 410 has about the same wing loading of a Mosquito (as if you cant fly a Me 410 with less than 4-5,000 lbs of ammo and fuel). Ok I’ll accept that for now. The Mosquito is in fact a very maneuverable plane with a turning circle of just ¨50 feet more than the Bf 110G at 679 feet. In comparison the P-38L has a turning circle of 817 feet, 596 feet with full flaps. If the Me 410 turns as well as the Mossie I’ll be very pleased.
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Rino quote:
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Originally posted by tedrbr
The problem with popular votes is often the majority of the voters don't know anything about their options. Seeing the G.55 cut in the first round has me starting to believe this to be the case this time.
I didn't expect G.55 to beat out P-39 in the long run, but I'm starting to think P-39 won't make cut either. I think it will come down to He-111 and B-25, based on name recognition. I further think both would be LW hangar queens.
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I have been amazed by the number of posts in which you denigrate
the knowledge or intelligence of non-BBS posters. Just because someone
doesn't post here doesn't make them clueless or uninformed.
Not saying it's universal, but implying that everyone who isn't in the
"clique" is somehow dim is just plain insulting.
Actually Rino, I'd say it's because most people come to the boards, read a few posts, see all the flaming, bashing, and personal attacks, and pass up the BBS from then on.
If you go ingame and ask why people don't go to the boards more often, this is what you'll hear people say.(This was what I'd heard in about 6/10 querys on the subject.)
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Originally posted by Rino
I have been amazed by the number of posts in which you denigrate
the knowledge or intelligence of non-BBS posters. Just because someone
doesn't post here doesn't make them clueless or uninformed.
Not saying it's universal, but implying that everyone who isn't in the
"clique" is somehow dim is just plain insulting.
Agreed. It seems to me to be the other way around, with most of the idiots finding their way here, and the smarter folks avoiding everything but the News and Announcements. ;)